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Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 09:05 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20051009_MIA@BUF

You guys really need to look at the play-by-play.... after reviewing it, there is nothing that shows that you "gave" us anything.... our 17 point lead was due to defensive breakdowns, the majority of your penalties in the first half were offsides

Of the 10 or so penalties you had called by the time it was 17 - 0, 6 were false starts or offsides.....is that the officials fault?

Of all your penalties that gave us first downs, only 1 defensive holding came on 3rd down to keep a drive alive....

What lost you the game?.... officials...nope, lack of skill......nope (that showed in the second half, you HAVE playmakers)

What lost you the game was getting behind 17 points to a good defensive team, 17 points that were earned by the opponent, not given by an official....

I'd call it a fluke that you played such mistake filled, undiciplined football, but looking at your other game, thats Miami football these days.....

You better hope the Nicktator shapes them up before he loses the team

finmann
10-12-2005, 09:09 AM
You won the game buddy....take the win and run.

retired opfinistic
10-12-2005, 09:12 AM
:sleep: hmmmm? You say something? Zzzzzzzzzzz

Winbaby#23
10-12-2005, 09:19 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20051009_MIA@BUF

You guys really need to look at the play-by-play.... after reviewing it, there is nothing that shows that you "gave" us anything.... our 17 point lead was due to defensive breakdowns, the majority of your penalties in the first half were offsides

Of the 10 or so penalties you had called by the time it was 17 - 0, 6 were false starts or offsides.....is that the officials fault?

Of all your penalties that gave us first downs, only 1 defensive holding came on 3rd down to keep a drive alive....

What lost you the game?.... officials...nope, lack of skill......nope (that showed in the second half, you HAVE playmakers)

What lost you the game was getting behind 17 points to a good defensive team, 17 points that were earned by the opponent, not given by an official....

I'd call it a fluke that you played such mistake filled, undiciplined football, but looking at your other game, thats Miami football these days.....

You better hope the Nicktator shapes them up before he loses the teamWe gave you the game.... so relish it and move on.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 09:24 AM
We gave you the game.... so relish it and move on.

Sorry chief... we took the game in the first 3 quarters..

We scored 17 points off nothing more than our offense beating your blitz..... then you proceeded not to core until 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter.....

If you want to talk about gifts, look at the fluke fumble (that you didn't cause) that even made the game close....


YOU GOT BEAT, relish that.

Agua
10-12-2005, 09:25 AM
WE gave you the game with all those false starts, offsides, etc.; zebra help, if any, was insignficant.

Winbaby#23
10-12-2005, 09:26 AM
Sorry chief... we took the game in the first 3 quarters..

We scored 17 points off nothing more than our offense beating your blitz..... then you proceeded not to core until 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter.....

If you want to talk about gifts, look at the fluke fumble (that you didn't cause) that even made the game close....


YOU GOT BEAT, relish that.We gave you the game... bottom line so relish this ..... Holcomb 10:monkeyl:

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 09:28 AM
WE gave you the game with all those false starts, offsides, etc.; zebra help, if any, was insignficant.excuses.
A lot of your penalties were caused by the 12th man. You wouldn't understand that since it almost never get's that loud in Miami. This was Sabans most hostile environment yet. He didn't know what hit him. Welcome to the AFCE, next time he should have loud speakers during practice. :D.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 09:28 AM
WE gave you the game with all those false starts, offsides, etc.; zebra help, if any, was insignficant.

But if you look at our drive, penalties didn't help us as much as you'ed think.... only 2 third downs got converted by penalty...

and when you were on O, we got flagged for interferance and roughing the passer as well...

Penalties on 1st down when the ball is already inside the 5 don't help.....


The real reason you lost was turnovers, not penalties..... the better team doesn't turn the ball over, and doesn't commmit penalties....

I'm Done here til December......but remember ...nothing's changed, until further notice you are still ours.

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 09:31 AM
Give it a rest already and worry about the rest of the season. This is really getting annoying.

Jnaledu3
10-12-2005, 09:31 AM
LOL. What a joke.

Yes you won the game. And you deserved to win. But the Fins made it much, much easier on you because of penalties. Your team benefited from a record high number of penalties by the Fins.

The Fins made the field a lot shorter for you in the first half. Thats why you scored 17 points. In the second half you had 3, mostly because our defense stopped commiting as many penalties. But that didnt matter because our offense felt like turning the ball over 5 times.

We played a piss poor game and you guys squeaked it out.

Winbaby#23
10-12-2005, 09:32 AM
But if you look at our drive, penalties didn't help us as much as you'ed think.... only 2 third downs got converted by penalty...

and when you were on O, we got flagged for interferance and roughing the passer as well...

Penalties on 1st down when the ball is already inside the 5 don't help.....


The real reason you lost was turnovers, not penalties..... the better team doesn't turn the ball over, and doesn't commmit penalties....

I'm Done here til December......but remember ...nothing's changed, until further notice you are still ours.U ntil further notice., in case you didn't notice we are still ahead of you in the division.. so sit the truck down.

dolfan4good
10-12-2005, 09:35 AM
But if you look at our drive, penalties didn't help us as much as you'ed think.... only 2 third downs got converted by penalty...

And you don;t think that 2 conversions by penalties are significant? That woulod have given you 10 points instead on 17 and you lose the game.

The gamne is over and its time to move on.... so move on!

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 09:36 AM
LOL. What a joke.

Yes you won the game. And you deserved to win. But the Fins made it much, much easier on you because of penalties. Your team benefited from a record high number of penalties by the Fins.

The Fins made the field a lot shorter for you in the first half. Thats why you scored 17 points. In the second half you had 3, mostly because our defense stopped commiting as many penalties. But that didnt matter because our offense felt like turning the ball over 5 times.

We played a piss poor game and you guys squeaked it out.I agree your penalties helped us but to say your offense felt like turning the ball is inaccurate, we took it. We made plays. We even took out a ref :lol:.

The holcomb handoff fumble is an example of an O that "felt like turning the ball over". :rolleyes:

PhinzN703
10-12-2005, 09:38 AM
Who makes a screen name called Holcomb10? Is he some savior of your team now? Just let it go and move on. Life is short man, enjoy it outside of the internet. Go for a walk, go workout, do something other then be a pest on your rival's website. :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

dolfan4good
10-12-2005, 09:39 AM
I agree your penalties helped us but to say your offense felt like turning the ball is inaccurate, we took it. We made plays. We even took out a ref :lol:.

The holcomb handoff fumble is an example of an O that "felt like turning the ball over". :rolleyes:

Come on Justa, I respect you as a poster here but be real... You played as well as you've played all year. We had one of the worst games in team history as far as penalties and turnovers are concerned. yet we were in it at the end. It should give you cause for concern, cause you really should have BLOWN US OUT and you didn't. Holcomb10 is trying to say that all those penalties didn;t make a difference in the game. You know better than that right?

Winbaby#23
10-12-2005, 09:41 AM
The bottom line...... the Bills were up by 17 got 5 turnovers and the Fins had 18 penalties..... and the Bill's still almost lost. Bills lucky if they win 7 or 8 games for the whole season.

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 09:42 AM
They played better with the help of Holcomb, but he's not going to take them far. I'm sorry, but it was a stupid decision and Bills will realize it at the end of the year (if they continue to play him).

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 09:43 AM
Holcomb10 is trying to say that all those penalties didn;t make a difference in the game. You know better than that right?

Of course the penalties helped, but they were all justifyed....

and if you look at the play-by-play, you got beat down the field, penalties had nothing to do with our biggest plays....


AND its not like we didn't have calls against us either......

You may have played bad, but thats what bad team do.... which is what you are....a bad team.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 09:44 AM
Come on Justa, I respect you as a poster here but be real... You played as well as you've played all year. We had on of the worst games in team history as far as penalties and turnovers are concerned. yet we were in it at the end. It should give you cause for concern, cause you really should have BLOWN US OUT and you didn't. Holcomb120 is trying to say that all those penalties didn;t make a difference in the game. You know better than that right? yeah, we didn't play as well as I wanted the bills to play but Holcomb had one week to practice w/ the starters, We had a rookie playing right guard and a Miami cast off beside him. We have 2 starters who happen to be huge factors in runstopping gone due to injuries.

We were lucky to come up w/ the win, no doubt. But we also made plays when we had to, you also cannot take that away from us.

Luck+plays = win. I'll take that anyday.

ATS16
10-12-2005, 09:45 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20051009_MIA@BUF

You guys really need to look at the play-by-play.... after reviewing it, there is nothing that shows that you "gave" us anything.... our 17 point lead was due to defensive breakdowns, the majority of your penalties in the first half were offsides

Of the 10 or so penalties you had called by the time it was 17 - 0, 6 were false starts or offsides.....is that the officials fault?

Of all your penalties that gave us first downs, only 1 defensive holding came on 3rd down to keep a drive alive....

What lost you the game?.... officials...nope, lack of skill......nope (that showed in the second half, you HAVE playmakers)

What lost you the game was getting behind 17 points to a good defensive team, 17 points that were earned by the opponent, not given by an official....

I'd call it a fluke that you played such mistake filled, undiciplined football, but looking at your other game, thats Miami football these days.....

You better hope the Nicktator shapes them up before he loses the team

5 Turnover 2 in the red zone - How is it we did not give you the game? Do you actually think you would have won the game without those mistakes?
You did earn the first quarter that's it, and your defense ah includes run and pass and half of that sucks. Good bye

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 09:46 AM
They played better with the help of Holcomb, but he's not going to take them far. I'm sorry, but it was a stupid decision and Bills will realize it at the end of the year (if they continue to play him).winning games is always a bad thing :rolleyes: Clements is an FA at the end of the year and Moulds may have to restructure his contract. Do you think they'd want to stay w/ a team that doesn't give them the best chance to win? There are other players on the team besides Losman you know.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 09:47 AM
5 Turnover 2 in the red zone - How is it we did not give you the game? Do you actually think you would have won the game without those mistakes?
You did earn the first quarter that's it, and your defense ah includes run and pass and half of that sucks. Good byeQue?

Winbaby#23
10-12-2005, 09:47 AM
Of course the penalties helped, but they were all justifyed....

and if you look at the play-by-play, you got beat down the field, penalties had nothing to do with our biggest plays....


AND its not like we didn't have calls against us either......

You may have played bad, but thats what bad team do.... which is what you are....a bad team.And the Bills are a great team??? 17 point lead, the Fins turned over the ball 5 times and commited 18 penalties and the Bills still almost lost.. BLHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Thats signs of a very BAD team and home too. So i wouldn't keep talking. Plus, you are still behind the Fins in the division how does that make you feel?? LMAOOOOOOOOOOO!! OWNED!!

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 09:47 AM
No, winning games isn't a bad thing, but do you honestly believe that Holcomb is going to hold up through the playoffs and get you to the SB? I'm sorry but there are teams out there that are much more dominant than the Dolphins team that you barely beat and they're going to destroy the Bills.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 09:48 AM
5 Turnover 2 in the red zone - How is it we did not give you the game? Do you actually think you would have won the game without those mistakes?


We TOOK THE GAME!!! The INT in the endzone was a great break on the ball, stupid pass, but thats YOUR QB!!

The fumble was a strip by Clements, who was making plays all game.....

The only "gift" was OUR FUMBLE, you had absolutly nothing to do with that....


Its funny how you all forget that you'ed have still been down by 13 without that GIFT!!!

Jnaledu3
10-12-2005, 09:49 AM
I agree your penalties helped us but to say your offense felt like turning the ball is inaccurate, we took it. We made plays. We even took out a ref :lol:.

The holcomb handoff fumble is an example of an O that "felt like turning the ball over". :rolleyes:

Okay..

So you made Denny blow the snap. You made Frerotte underthrow Chambers and get intercepted, then you made him throw that INT in the endzone.

The only turnover that you guys might have caused was Ronnies fumble.

You guys won the game and Im not taking anything away from that. But you had a lot of help.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 09:49 AM
And the Bills are a great team??? 17 point lead, the Fins turned over the ball 5 times and commited 18 penalties and the Bills still almost lost.. BLHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Thats signs of a very BAD team and home too. So i wouldn't keep talking. Plus, you are still behind the Fins in the division how does that make you feel?? LMAOOOOOOOOOOO!! OWNED!!

Nope, not owned... we just beat you 3 days ago, made your team look like a bunch of high schoolers.... jumping on hard counts, throwing up ducks.....


And i never said we were a great team, or even good....just better than the fins, as proven over the last 2 years.

Dolphins12thMan
10-12-2005, 09:50 AM
But if you look at our drive, penalties didn't help us as much as you'ed think.... only 2 third downs got converted by penalty...

and when you were on O, we got flagged for interferance and roughing the passer as well...

Penalties on 1st down when the ball is already inside the 5 don't help.....


The real reason you lost was turnovers, not penalties..... the better team doesn't turn the ball over, and doesn't commmit penalties....

I'm Done here til December......but remember ...nothing's changed, until further notice you are still ours.


Sure, the Bills won the game, Beat us....absolutely not!!! We beat ourselves!!! Any1 who watch the game knows the dolphins beat themselves. If the tables were reversed I would say "The Bills gave us that one". You have blinders on, but that is understandable, the only difference is the Bills played their BEST game, the dolphins didnt. The Dolphins are a rebuilding team after a 4-12 season,with a new regime, the Bills are supposed to be playoff contenders. T he future is bright in Miami and the dolphins really cant go anywhere but up, the Bills have flatlined.

Later 12thman,

Fan of the 2nd place dolphins, not a fan of the 3rd place Bills!

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 09:52 AM
Okay..

So you made Denny blow the snap. You made Frerotte underthrow Chambers and get intercepted, then you made him throw that INT in the endzone.

The only turnover that you guys might have caused was Ronnies fumble.

You guys won the game and Im not taking anything away from that. But you had a lot of help.

When Sam Adams hits your QB and makes him throw a bad pass thats a forced INT....

And besides, if your players make bad plays whos problem is that....

By your rationale every team that loses "give" the other team the game, becuase they don't play as well...

GUESS WHAT FINFANS, if you don't make better plays your aren't better players....I'm sorry if your Lines can't stay onside, I'm sorry your QB sucks.... but the "the better team lost" BS doesn't fly

...if you don't make better, smarter plays, you aren't the better team...comprende?

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 09:55 AM
Sure, the Bills won the game, Beat us....absolutely not!!! We beat ourselves!!! Any1 who watch the game knows the dolphins beat themselves. If the tables were reversed I would say "The Bills gave us that one". You have blinders on, but that is understandable, the only difference is the Bills played their BEST game, the dolphins didnt. The Dolphins are a rebuilding team after a 4-12 season,with a new regime, the Bills are supposed to be playoff contenders. T he future is bright in Miami and the dolphins really cant go anywhere but up, the Bills have flatlined.

Later 12thman,

Fan of the 2nd place dolphins, not a fan of the 3rd place Bills!

OUR BEST GAME?!?!?!?! Are you crazy.... we gave you the ball on the 30, we had plenty of our own penalties, and we only passed 6 times (6 for 6) in the second.....if we had kept passing on you in the second, we would have kept being successful, you secondary is awful.......

Next time Kelly and the boys will run up the score, hows that sound?

Brad528
10-12-2005, 09:55 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20051009_MIA@BUF

You guys really need to look at the play-by-play.... after reviewing it, there is nothing that shows that you "gave" us anything.... our 17 point lead was due to defensive breakdowns, the majority of your penalties in the first half were offsides

Of the 10 or so penalties you had called by the time it was 17 - 0, 6 were false starts or offsides.....is that the officials fault?

Of all your penalties that gave us first downs, only 1 defensive holding came on 3rd down to keep a drive alive....

What lost you the game?.... officials...nope, lack of skill......nope (that showed in the second half, you HAVE playmakers)

What lost you the game was getting behind 17 points to a good defensive team, 17 points that were earned by the opponent, not given by an official....

I'd call it a fluke that you played such mistake filled, undiciplined football, but looking at your other game, thats Miami football these days.....

You better hope the Nicktator shapes them up before he loses the team
NO **** the refs didnt give you the game we gave you the game. Those
offsides penalties are what killed us a couple came on 3rd down or gave you 3rd and short. Take your win and shut the f up cause we will meet again and I can bet my bottom dollar we wont look anything like the team you saw last week.

DolfanTom
10-12-2005, 09:56 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20051009_MIA@BUF

You guys really need to look at the play-by-play.... after reviewing it, there is nothing that shows that you "gave" us anything.... our 17 point lead was due to defensive breakdowns, the majority of your penalties in the first half were offsides

Of the 10 or so penalties you had called by the time it was 17 - 0, 6 were false starts or offsides.....is that the officials fault?

Of all your penalties that gave us first downs, only 1 defensive holding came on 3rd down to keep a drive alive....

What lost you the game?.... officials...nope, lack of skill......nope (that showed in the second half, you HAVE playmakers)

What lost you the game was getting behind 17 points to a good defensive team, 17 points that were earned by the opponent, not given by an official....

I'd call it a fluke that you played such mistake filled, undiciplined football, but looking at your other game, thats Miami football these days.....

You better hope the Nicktator shapes them up before he loses the team

Your analysis is severely flawed. But enjoy your win and the smack that goes with it, because it will be terribly short-lived, and we will punk you in Miami!

Jnaledu3
10-12-2005, 09:58 AM
...if you don't make better, smarter plays, you aren't the better team...comprende?

I can agree with that.

If you guys win the second game, then I will say youre the better team. For right now, its pretty even.

ch19079
10-12-2005, 10:01 AM
I can agree with that.

If you guys win the second game, then I will say youre the better team. For right now, its pretty even. well actually, i can say the bills ARE better, UNTILL the second game. and IF the fins win, THEN we are pretty even. :D

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 10:01 AM
Your analysis is severely flawed. But enjoy your win and the smack that goes with it, because it will be terribly short-lived, and we will punk you in Miami!

How is my analysis flawed? I just looked at the play-by-play...

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:02 AM
No, winning games isn't a bad thing, but do you honestly believe that Holcomb is going to hold up through the playoffs and get you to the SB? I'm sorry but there are teams out there that are much more dominant than the Dolphins team that you barely beat and they're going to destroy the Bills.Holcomb proved in the past he can throw for 400+ yards without the weapons he has right now. If he throws for 200 + per game i'll take that over 70+ yards that Losman makes. I don't think Holcomb is all that but he's no worse than Kordell . The thing is, you cannot give up on the season. You have to at least give your team the best chance to win.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 10:03 AM
I'm done here.... you guys are too pissed to see reality... thats OK... the fall back to the basement of the east is a long one, but it should be done by december, then we can put the final nails in your coffin......

Have fun with your stoner Rb, he's fun to watch....

FISH SQUISHED...?........CHECK!!

Dolphins12thMan
10-12-2005, 10:05 AM
OUR BEST GAME?!?!?!?! Are you crazy.... we gave you the ball on the 30, we had plenty of our own penalties, and we only passed 6 times (6 for 6) in the second.....if we had kept passing on you in the second, we would have kept being successful, you secondary is awful.......

Next time Kelly and the boys will run up the score, hows that sound?


YES!!! Your best game!!! How many yds passing did you have in the 2nd half? How many 1st downs??? If your Offensive passing game was so successful in the 2nd half, why didnt it continue? Ill tell you why, b/c Mularkey didnt want to turn the ball over b/c he has no faith in your QB situation. You won that game when a rookie RB made a rookie mistake on your own 12 yd line with 1:30 on the clock. You were beat, face the facts jack! Sure you won, but you were beat. A Plus (+) 4 TO margine at home, the last one being @ your 12 yd line, and you won by 6 points, go ahead and feel good about you team, what a joke!

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 10:08 AM
Holcomb proved in the past he can throw for 400+ yards without the weapons he has right now. If he throws for 200 + per game i'll take that over 70+ yards that Losman makes. I don't think Holcomb is all that but he's no worse than Kordell . The thing is, you cannot give up on the season. You have to at least give your team the best chance to win.

Yep you're right and your team is taking a BIG chance. You'll realize how much of a mistake it was at the end of the year. You can save this quote if you want and if I'm wrong I'll eat crow but I really don't think that'll be the case.

I don't care if a team goes 16-0. Winning the SB is all that matters and if the Bills don't win the SB, putting in Holcomb was a big mistake.

Of course, you could also say that if they win the SB it was the best decision ever, but I just don't see it happening. You're a fan, so I'm sure you'll remain optimistic. I wish you guys luck, but I don't think he's going to win a SB for you.

Winbaby#23
10-12-2005, 10:08 AM
I'm done here.... you guys are too pissed to see reality... thats OK... the fall back to the basement of the east is a long one, but it should be done by december, then we can put the final nails in your coffin......

Have fun with your stoner Rb, he's fun to watch....

FISH SQUISHED...?........CHECK!!bye!!!

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:10 AM
Okay..

So you made Denny blow the snap. You made Frerotte underthrow Chambers and get intercepted, then you made him throw that INT in the endzone.

The only turnover that you guys might have caused was Ronnies fumble.
that was great coverage on both INT's you mentioned. Clements and Vincents ints were not gimmes. It's not like they stood there and Gus just threw it staight to them. Clements had to make a diving int and Vincent came out of no where to make that int.


You guys won the game and Im not taking anything away from that. But you had a lot of help. I already admitted that numerous times.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 10:10 AM
YES!!! Your best game!!! How many yds passing did you have in the 2nd half? How many 1st downs??? If your Offensive passing game was so successful in the 2nd half, why didnt it continue? Ill tell you why, b/c Mularkey didnt want to turn the ball over b/c he has no faith in your QB situation. You won that game when a rookie RB made a rookie mistake on your own 12 yd line with 1:30 on the clock. You were beat, face the facts jack! Sure you won, but you were beat. A Plus (+) 4 TO margine at home, the last one being @ your 12 yd line, and you won by 6 points, go ahead and feel good about you team, what a joke!

First off, the only reason you had 14 is cause of a bad handoff..... second, there is no guarantee you score if Clements doesn't FORCE that fumble (no ,mistake by Ronnie, nate stripped him...playmaker making plays, you didn't have any)

You already threw a bad pass in the endzone once, it could've easily happened again.....

That was far from our best game....

But it seems the opinion around here is that your players didn't play well... and since players that don't play well do so because they aren't good leads me to believe that you haven't got a good team.....

And don't forget that the entire right side of our OL was out... nobody mentions that

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 10:11 AM
You're "done here" but you're still posting. I don't get it.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:13 AM
Yep you're right and your team is taking a BIG chance. You'll realize how much of a mistake it was at the end of the year. You can save this quote if you want and if I'm wrong I'll eat crow but I really don't think that'll be the case.

I don't care if a team goes 16-0. Winning the SB is all that matters and if the Bills don't win the SB, putting in Holcomb was a big mistake.

Of course, you could also say that if they win the SB it was the best decision ever, but I just don't see it happening. You're a fan, so I'm sure you'll remain optimistic. I wish you guys luck, but I don't think he's going to win a SB for you.Are you telling me that Saban is making a mistake by going w/ a vet like Gus that knows linehans system instead of drafting a young qb and tanking the season by developing him? Last time I checked , coaches are in the business of winning games. Losman will learn from watching Holcomb and coming in from time to time.


It's a bigger risk to the entire team if we start Losman .

PhinPhreak
10-12-2005, 10:17 AM
Nope, not owned... we just beat you 3 days ago, made your team look like a bunch of high schoolers.... jumping on hard counts, throwing up ducks.....


And i never said we were a great team, or even good....just better than the fins, as proven over the last 2 years.


Well going by your simple logic, the Fins were better then the Pats last year. :rolleyes:

koolblue61
10-12-2005, 10:18 AM
all i know is if i was a bills fan i would be saying 18 penalties against miami and a late fumble and we barely won.be proud,be very proud that you barely squeezed by and won.i probably feel about about that lose then you feel about your win.

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 10:20 AM
Dolphins were a 4-12 team last year. We needed so many things that it was impossible to get them all in one draft. Gus is playing because we didn't draft a 1st round QB like the Bills did. If the Dolphins had drafted a 1st round QB, played him for 4 games then took him out to replace him with a 31 year old QB, I'd be saying the same thing I'm saying now.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:22 AM
Well going by your simple logic, the Fins were better then the Pats last year. :rolleyes:difference is, the Pats were the champs. We didn't play the champs last sunday. Only time will tell who's better. Right now, we beat you and your team played horribly. You know the saying "you're only as good as your last performance"

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 10:23 AM
Also, keep in mind that I don't think Gus is the answer for us either. I'm well aware that the Dolphins have issues to address but I'm excited for the future. I'd rather lose games now and focus on the future instead of taking a step back to win a few games now and miss the SB which is what the Bills are doing.

PhinPhreak
10-12-2005, 10:24 AM
all i know is if i was a bills fan i would be saying 18 penalties against miami and a late fumble and we barely won.be proud,be very proud that you barely squeezed by and won.i probably feel about about that lose then you feel about your win.


Exactly, they have the right to gloat they won the game, but if it was my team I would be very worried about facing better teams down the road, and I wouldn't be looking forward to going down to Miami to play later this year. That is coming from being an objective FB fan and not a Fin fan. The Fins played one of the worst games by an NFL team this year(and I am not talking about the TO's) and still had a chance to pull it out at the end, that would worry me if I were a fan of any team.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:24 AM
Dolphins were a 4-12 team last year. We needed so many things that it was impossible to get them all in one draft. Gus is playing because we didn't draft a 1st round QB like the Bills did. If the Dolphins had drafted a 1st round QB, played him for 4 games then took him out to replace him with a 31 year old QB, I'd be saying the same thing I'm saying now.
Orton was available? So if the fins draft a qb next year and Saban still starts GUs are you gonna say he's making a huge mistake?

ccphinfan
10-12-2005, 10:25 AM
difference is, the Pats were the champs. We didn't play the champs last sunday. Only time will tell who's better. Right now, we beat you and your team played horribly. You know the saying "you're only as good as your last performance"
If thats true, you guys are in big trouble also

FinsNCanes
10-12-2005, 10:25 AM
Ralph Stadium sure sounded reaaal hostile in the 2nd half :rolleyes:


There's only maybe 2 Bills' posters who are here regularly and then ALL of a sudden you get a win and it's back here again. Seems a little childish. If you wanna talk football, talk football. Don't dissapear for 2 weeks and then all of a sudden pop up like you actually did something.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 10:26 AM
Ralph Stadium sure sounded reaaal hostile in the 2nd half :rolleyes:


There's only maybe 2 Bills' posters who are here regularly and then ALL of a sudden you get a win and it's back here again. Seems a little childish. If you wanna talk football, talk football. Don't dissapear for 2 weeks and then all of a sudden pop up like you actually did something.

I have more posts on this board than you.... this is just a new name.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:27 AM
If thats true, you guys are in big trouble also Are you kidding me? we will make playoffs playing like that.



sarcasm /off

LarryFinFan
10-12-2005, 10:27 AM
excuses.
A lot of your penalties were caused by the 12th man. You wouldn't understand that since it almost never get's that loud in Miami. This was Sabans most hostile environment yet. He didn't know what hit him. Welcome to the AFCE, next time he should have loud speakers during practice. :D.


Saban didn't make any plays that I saw...that is an assine statement...The 12th man obviously helps some, but to accuse Saban of losing it was wrong...

The players had the 18 penalties. Gus had the 3 INTs and numberous off-target passes...that's what caused the win for you....How does it feel to win by default instead of earning it...BTW, your secondary played great as you would expect them to. The DL and LBs couldn't stop RB. If Gus connects on 2 or 3 passes...you're sitting at home crying instead of us...

But, there'll be another Sunday for us...

Winbaby#23
10-12-2005, 10:28 AM
First off, the only reason you had 14 is cause of a bad handoff..... second, there is no guarantee you score if Clements doesn't FORCE that fumble (no ,mistake by Ronnie, nate stripped him...playmaker making plays, you didn't have any)

You already threw a bad pass in the endzone once, it could've easily happened again.....

That was far from our best game....

But it seems the opinion around here is that your players didn't play well... and since players that don't play well do so because they aren't good leads me to believe that you haven't got a good team.....

And don't forget that the entire right side of our OL was out... nobody mentions thatSounds like to me hes trying to justify there win.... sounds like he knows they got frigin lucky.

ch19079
10-12-2005, 10:29 AM
all i know is if i was a bills fan i would be saying 18 penalties against miami and a late fumble and we barely won.be proud,be very proud that you barely squeezed by and won.i probably feel about about that lose then you feel about your win.
well as a bills fan i will say, 18 penalties shows just how bad and undisciplined your team is. 3 INTs shows what your QB really is, and the botched punt and long kick return at the end of the game showes how bad your STs are.

and the only reason it was that close is because there was an unforced fumble on the QB/HB exchange, late in the game.

the bills marched down the field on its first 3 drives and scored. while the bills D had a shutout going into halftime.

also, the ONLY thing the fins managed to do was have a nice goalline stand. (it was impressive :( ). and get pressure on Holcomb, (but i like to think the 2 backups on the right side had something to do with that. though taylor beat Gandy once.)

the Bills played better, made fewer mistakes, and put more points on the board. and because of that, i get to say the bills are the better team. (at least untill we play the second game). :D

thats my take.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:33 AM
Saban didn't make any plays that I saw...that is an assine statement...The 12th man obviously helps some, but to accuse Saban of losing it was wrong...

The players had the 18 penalties. Gus had the 3 INTs and numberous off-target passes...that's what caused the win for you....How does it feel to win by default instead of earning it...BTW, your secondary played great as you would expect them to. The DL and LBs couldn't stop RB. If Gus connects on 2 or 3 passes...you're sitting at home crying instead of us...

But, there'll be another Sunday for us...where did I say Saban lost the game although penalties simply mean that the team wasn't prepared for it and penalties are usually placed on the shoulders of the coach.

Default? If that's so than you can blame Saban for that . Make up your mind :shakeno:


Sure, the fins gave us those sacks in the final seconds. The bills didn't rush Gus, Gus ran into our DE's for those sacks. :rolleyes:

Your ST just stood there and parted the REd sea for McGee :rolleyes:

Gus told Clements and Vincent where he was gonna exactly do w/ that ball. :rolleyes:



Puhlease, it wasn't by default. That's just your excuse.

PhinPhreak
10-12-2005, 10:35 AM
difference is, the Pats were the champs. We didn't play the champs last sunday. Only time will tell who's better. Right now, we beat you and your team played horribly. You know the saying "you're only as good as your last performance"


Nope there is no difference, he is saying because a team wins they are automaticaly better, and that isn't the case. If so then the Fins were better then the Pats last year, it can't work both ways. I have had this same argument for years with Bills fans around here.

The years the Bills went to the Superbowl they were the better team because they went regardless if the Fins beat them durng the season(this I agree with), in 96 the crappy Fins swept the Bills and didn't make the playoffs, does this make them the better team? Only in a homers mind.

Then came the years the Fins were making the playoffs and the Bills weren't, then the argument became we beat you so we are the better team, ummmm..........OK that's why your team is sitting their *** home in January.

When it's being said as smack fine, but the people I have had these discussions with honestly believe it, this logic I don't get.

So in the logic of Holesome10 the Fins were better then the SB champs last year.

In the logic of Phinphreak, Brady made a stupid *** play and the Fins got lucky.

You tell me which makes more sense.

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 10:38 AM
Orton was available? So if the fins draft a qb next year and Saban still starts GUs are you gonna say he's making a huge mistake?

If Gus starts from the first game, no. If he starts after the rookie has already played 4 games, yes.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:43 AM
Nope there is no difference, he is saying because a team wins they are automaticaly better, and that isn't the case. If so then the Fins were better then the Pats last year, it can't work both ways. I have had this same argument for years with Bills fans around here. The years the Bills went to the Superbowl they were the better team because they went regardless if the Fins beat them durng the season(this I agree with), in 96 the crappy Fins swept the Bills and didn't make the playoffs, does this make them the better team? Only in a homers mind.

Then came the years the Fins were making the playoffs and the Bills weren't, then the argument became we beat you so we are the better team, ummmm..........OK that's why your team is sitting their *** home in January.

When it's being said as smack fine, but the people I have had these discussions with honestly believe it, this logic I don't get.

So in the logic of Holesome10 the Fins were better then the SB champs last year.

In the logic of Phinphreak, Brady made a stupid *** play and the Fins got lucky.

You tell me which makes more sense.In this case it can be argued that we are since the fins aren't exactly a proven team and we just beat you.

With your other examples, you are comparing proven teams getting beaten by teams that aren't. The fins were a playoff team getting swept by a rival team like the bills does not mean the bills were better. That's just how rival games are played just like you beat the Pats last year. Those were cases of SPOILER games.

However, neither the bills or the fins are proven teams at this point and to say that we are better at this point does hold water because if the fins lose this weekend and the bills had a bye, guess who would win the tie breaker? Neither teams can be considered spoilers when facing each other.


That's just his opinion and not mine as I said, only time will tell because we played one more game and we aren't even in mid-season. But it can be argued.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 10:50 AM
If Gus starts from the first game, no. If he starts after the rookie has already played 4 games, yes. I get what you're saying, give up on the season and just develop your qb just like the giants did last year and risk pissing off the vets that want to win now. That would work if everyone in the entire team were 25 yrs. old. I doubt Fletcher, Moulds, Vincent ,Milloy and Spikes would like that though.

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 11:03 AM
I get what you're saying, give up on the season and just develop your qb just like the giants did last year and risk pissing off the vets that want to win now. That would work if everyone in the entire team were 25 yrs. old. I doubt Fletcher, Moulds, Vincent ,Milloy and Spikes would like that though.

I understand, but what now if you find out Holcomb isn't the answer. Just because he could tear apart the Dolphins obviously weak secondary doesn't mean he's going to do the same vs somebody else. Do you put Losman back in then?

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 11:10 AM
So in the logic of Holcomb10 the Fins were better then the SB champs last year.

In the logic of Phinphreak, Brady made a stupid *** play and the Fins got lucky.

You tell me which makes more sense.

The difference is Your are not the champs.... you were the second worst team in the league last year.... I know you've improved, but not that much.

Mine is in response to the concensus that the better team got beat on Sunday... thats not the case.... aside from getting to face the 4th string Db's of Denver you've had one good game....

The problem is you're putting your victory over the pats last year, a proven superior team, on par with our victory over you.... you are proven, you aren't superior...and you are undisciplined and mistake prone....

When the pats lose making stupid mistakes its a fluke, you've been getting 13 penalties a game, and Gus at Qb has been below average....

No one is surprised (aside from no-nothing Shannon Sharpe) that the fins are making mistakes.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 11:11 AM
I understand, but what now if you find out Holcomb isn't the answer. Just because he could tear apart the Dolphins obviously weak secondary doesn't mean he's going to do the same vs somebody else. Do you put Losman back in then?

My think is that when it becomes obvious that this team isn't gonna make the playoffs... its back to Losman for the duration... at the very least Holcomb gets until the bye week...

CD13
10-12-2005, 11:14 AM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20051009_MIA@BUF

You guys really need to look at the play-by-play.... after reviewing it, there is nothing that shows that you "gave" us anything.... our 17 point lead was due to defensive breakdowns, the majority of your penalties in the first half were offsides

Of the 10 or so penalties you had called by the time it was 17 - 0, 6 were false starts or offsides.....is that the officials fault?

Of all your penalties that gave us first downs, only 1 defensive holding came on 3rd down to keep a drive alive....

What lost you the game?.... officials...nope, lack of skill......nope (that showed in the second half, you HAVE playmakers)

What lost you the game was getting behind 17 points to a good defensive team, 17 points that were earned by the opponent, not given by an official....

I'd call it a fluke that you played such mistake filled, undiciplined football, but looking at your other game, thats Miami football these days.....

You better hope the Nicktator shapes them up before he loses the team

We had 18 penalties, and 5 turnovers. You won by 6 points, barely. Stop the madness. We made this game pretty easy on you. Granted I think the Bills D is good, and I love Willis, but we really gave you that game.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 11:16 AM
I understand, but what now if you find out Holcomb isn't the answer. Just because he could tear apart the Dolphins obviously weak secondary doesn't mean he's going to do the same vs somebody else. Do you put Losman back in then? How will we know if he is the answer or not if we sit him. After 4 games we already know that Jp isn't ready. We're trying to fix what is broken. Prior to our injuries the bills felt we had a running game , D, ST enough to make playoffs. We have wr's that some teams wish they had. It was all being held back by our inexperienced qb. If our D could stop the run like it did last year and our ST was scoring like it did last year, maybe we could've won a few games even w/ JP back there. Well it isn't and are not the giants of last year that was on a rebuilding mode w/ a new coaching staff.


Tell me, if RW plays better than Brown and the fins start winning w/ him, will you bench him in favor of Brown so that Brown can develop?

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 11:17 AM
We had 18 penalties, and 5 turnovers. You won by 6 points, barely. Stop the madness. We made this game pretty easy on you. Granted I think the Bills D is good, and I love Willis, but we really gave you that game.

The three most important turnovers were great defensive plays...

Vincent makes up ground for the pick at the end of the half....McGee jumps a stupid throw by Freotte in the endzone... and Clements strips Ronnie at the end.....

I will admit that Ronnies fumble was a surprise, i would have bet 1000 that it got overturned, but I've only seen it on the jumbotron so I don't know...

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 11:21 AM
How will we know if he is the answer or not if we sit him. After 4 games we already know that Jp isn't ready. We're trying to fix what is broken. Prior to our injuries the bills felt we had a running game , D, ST enough to make playoffs. We have wr's that some teams wish they had. It was all being held back by our inexperienced qb. If our D could stop the run like it did last year and our ST was scoring like it did last year, maybe we could've won a few games even w/ JP back there. Well it isn't and are not the giants of last year that was on a rebuilding mode w/ a new coaching staff.

You don't, which is why I'm speculating. It's my opinion that putting in Holcomb now was a mistake. If you guys go all the way with him, great. I'm just offering my opinion which I've seen a few fans over at Billszone agree with.



Tell me, if RW plays better than Brown and actually makes your running game better and the fins start winning w/ him, will you bench him in favor of Brown so that Brown can develop?

Now you're just grasping. There's an obvious difference between the QB and RB position. Both can be on the field at the same time, so why would I care if one does better than the other.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 11:38 AM
Now you're just grasping. There's an obvious difference between the QB and RB position. Both can be on the field at the same time, so why would I care if one does better than the other.no I am not . it's the same logic but different position. Let's assume you are winning w/ a vet would you switch him w/ your future even though it is clear that the vet gives you a better chance to win? Even if they can be bth on the field , if the vet get's you more yards do you run him or your rookie? Here's an example, Henry and Willis were in the backfield at some plays last year. Who did we hand the ball to? Willis.Not because he was younger but because he was the one that made us better, As you can see it's not about who's the future , it's about who makes us better right now. It's Holcomb. We won't know unless you play him , no?

SSnowman
10-12-2005, 11:44 AM
What your asking has nothing to do with this argument. You are not winning with a vet yet, you won with a vet and keep in mind your rookie also won the first game of the season.

Of course I wouldn't switch a vet with the future if the team was winning, but that's not what the Bills did so again I don't see what it has to do with the argument at hand.

Sofa_King_Drunk
10-12-2005, 11:45 AM
My think is that when it becomes obvious that this team isn't gonna make the playoffs... its back to Losman for the duration... at the very least Holcomb gets until the bye week...


The Dolphins turned the ball over five times and gave you a whole football field worth of yards on penalties. You scored 20 points and stood a more than reasonable chance of losing the game at the end. For comparison sake, the Packers played a team that turned the ball over five times, committed 13 or 14 penalties and they won by 49 freakin' points. We had no business being in that game, and in years past I would've started pounding shots of tequila at halftime in anticipation of watching the painful second half to come. You won, take your victory and savor it, and do yourself a favor and don't try to convince anybody on this board that your team is better than ours based on what happened last Sunday. Now, please go over to Gang Green and bother those people over there. I'm sure they can't wait to tell you how great you guys are and how scared they are of the absolute killer instinct your team embodies. :rolleyes:

3P
10-12-2005, 11:46 AM
Game time: Sunday, October 9th.

Holcomb10's First Post: Tuesday, October 11th.

Way to stick it out there and predict that win ahead of time, eh?

Quite easy to grow a pair after the battle is over, no?

And thus we have the fairweather Jills fan: "Hey guys, we won! Let's go start supporting our team now!"

:shakeno:

Cowards.

Zeke0123
10-12-2005, 12:02 PM
It was an Ugly win obviously....we have a lot of house-cleaning to do unfortunatly its guys like JT and some other Vets making the dumb penaltys so its not going to be easy.The Bills are a better team right now with Holcomb (as opposed to JP) and they are going to improve.The next game should be interesting.

timbalu
10-12-2005, 12:03 PM
excuses.
A lot of your penalties were caused by the 12th man. You wouldn't understand that since it almost never get's that loud in Miami. This was Sabans most hostile environment yet. He didn't know what hit him. Welcome to the AFCE, next time he should have loud speakers during practice. :D.

Hate to admit it, but Jizz is 100% correct on this one . Crowd noise causes the false starts and mental errors.The fish should have been prepared for the noise.
My turn to eat crow: Buffalo won . Congrats !

dolfan4good
10-12-2005, 12:17 PM
yeah, we didn't play as well as I wanted the bills to play but Holcomb had one week to practice w/ the starters, We had a rookie playing right guard and a Miami cast off beside him. We have 2 starters who happen to be huge factors in runstopping gone due to injuries.

We were lucky to come up w/ the win, no doubt. But we also made plays when we had to, you also cannot take that away from us.

Luck+plays = win. I'll take that anyday.
I will not take that away... you're right, you made some HUGE plays (causing the Brown fumble) that ended up winning you the game. Your offense also made some plays to get you the lead. However, the fact that you even had a lead was because of the continued MENTAL errors made by the defense that allowed you to continue drives that were inititally stopped. I agree that your defense had much to do with causing the turnovers, however, no one but the Fins were responsible for the stupid penalties. That is why I say we somewhat handed that game over. We put ourseleves in a bind by making stupid mental errors, not because we were physically outplayed.

Justasportsfan
10-12-2005, 01:32 PM
What your asking has nothing to do with this argument. You are not winning with a vet yet, you won with a vet and keep in mind your rookie also won the first game of the season.

Of course I wouldn't switch a vet with the future if the team was winning, but that's not what the Bills did so again I don't see what it has to do with the argument at hand.hindsight can go either ways. Right now we won w/ Holcomb. So far so good. It's all about the w's ,End of story.

Holcomb10
10-12-2005, 01:55 PM
Game time: Sunday, October 9th.

Holcomb10's First Post: Tuesday, October 11th.

Way to stick it out there and predict that win ahead of time, eh?

Quite easy to grow a pair after the battle is over, no?

And thus we have the fairweather Jills fan: "Hey guys, we won! Let's go start supporting our team now!"

:shakeno:

Cowards.

I've been a member of this board longer than you... i've been absent recently, after some.....unpleasentness.... but I've predicted the Dolphins demise in this game for months, I've talked enough ****, I don't need to justify anything for you........