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View Full Version : Best Player not going to New York



Angneli
12-13-2002, 06:58 PM
Who is the best player not going to New York?

iceblizzard69
12-13-2002, 09:54 PM
I say Leftwich.

Dajesus
12-14-2002, 01:20 AM
A very strong case could be made for Kliff Kingsburry. He has the best stats of any college QB. This isn't like David Klinger putting up insane numbers in a nothing conference. Kingsburry threw for 4500 yards and 42 tds playing in the big 12. Oh yeah he also played Ohio St in the beginnig of the season. I still think Larry Johnson is hands down the winner, but Kingsburry should probably be there.

I think to much is put on the teams record. There is no sport that revolves around the team more than Football, but yet the Heisman winner has to be in the top 10 to have a chance. If Penn St wins 2 of the 3 games it lost this season there wouldn't even be a debate. The 9th player who rushed for 2000 yards in college football on a BCS team would run away with the award.

Cranx
12-15-2002, 05:37 PM
Gesser was very good and I'm a Pac 10 guy, but I'd definitely have to give the "overlooked" honor to Leftwich. The guy is incredible and should be right there with Palmer as one of the first guys taken in the draft.

Here's another question for you all: Which senior QB's (since we're not sure about several underclassmen) do you all think will be taken in the first round? Also, since Banks is projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round, do any of you think the 'Fins should take a look at picking him up?

Dajesus
12-17-2002, 05:44 AM
Ragone and Kingsburry will rocket up the boards whent he senior bowls, and combines start due to their size and arm strength. The same can be said for Chris Simms since he is the ultimate combine QB. Guys like Banks, Wallace, and Marquell Blackwell(the best qb no one has heard of) will draw attention in the senior bowls, but it will fade at the combine due to size and arm. Get ready for big name QBs like Dorsey and Gesser to fall of the radar and in to a 2nd day draft board.

Right now I see Palmer, Leftwitch, Kingsburry, Ragone, and Simms all getting first round grades, but it will depend on how many teams decide to take a QB even though it may not be their biggest need. Of course this list will get alot longer if some Jrs decide to come out. Phillip Rivers, Eli Manning, and Grossman could really put this class over the top. Then the hefty lefty Lorenzen could be a wild card. I am very curious to see if a team would take a chance on him early dispite his weight.

I am also very curious to see what QB that fits in to Banks category will have great sucsess in the NFL. I really think the team that takes a shot in the 2nd or 3rd round will find a Gannon type after a few years of sitting in Banks, Blackwell, or Wallace.

SMadison29
12-19-2002, 03:33 AM
Maurice Clarett

LOL, did you say arm strength & Kingsbury in the same sentence. That is the one reason why he won't sky rocket at the combine. Why are his numbers as high as they are? Because they run the same type of offense as Oakland. They dont run the ball.

Ragone is already a projected first rounder & has been all year.

At the moment the only sure first rounders are Palmer, Leftwich, & Ragone. I suspect Simms will be impressing everyone at the combine, not Kingsbury, & subsequently put himself into the lower first round. After that Wallace & Kingsbury will land somewhere in between the late second & early fourth, & Dorsey right after them. Though Gesser was a very good college QB, I think his size limitations will unfortunately make him a 2nd day pick.


<<Also, since Banks is projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round>>

LOL, yeah right. Banks(see Gesser comments) is a 2nd day pick.


<<Marquell Blackwell(the best qb no one has heard of)>>

I have to disagree, the best QB nobody has heard of is Sophomore Ben Roethlisberger of Miami(OH). This kid is gonna be something special & a for sure first rounder in 04 or 05.

Dajesus
12-19-2002, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by SMadison29
Maurice Clarett

LOL, did you say arm strength & Kingsbury in the same sentence. That is the one reason why he won't sky rocket at the combine. Why are his numbers as high as they are? Because they run the same type of offense as Oakland. They dont run the ball.

Ragone is already a projected first rounder & has been all year.

At the moment the only sure first rounders are Palmer, Leftwich, & Ragone. I suspect Simms will be impressing everyone at the combine, not Kingsbury, & subsequently put himself into the lower first round. After that Wallace & Kingsbury will land somewhere in between the late second & early fourth, & Dorsey right after them. Though Gesser was a very good college QB, I think his size limitations will unfortunately make him a 2nd day pick.


<<Also, since Banks is projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round>>

LOL, yeah right. Banks(see Gesser comments) is a 2nd day pick.


<<Marquell Blackwell(the best qb no one has heard of)>>

I have to disagree, the best QB nobody has heard of is Sophomore Ben Roethlisberger of Miami(OH). This kid is gonna be something special & a for sure first rounder in 04 or 05.

Ragone has fallen off big time due to the horrible season his team has had. Early reports for this class have him falling to the 2nd even 3rd round. I agre he will make up the ground, but he is not a sure fire 1st rounder yet.

Say what you will about Kingsburry, but he is 6'4'' 230lb QB that put up amazing numbers playing one of the hardest schedules in college football. 400 yards and 6tds against Texas will earn him a lot of attention at the combine in Indy.

How do you have Banks falling so far from grace due to his size, yet you have the much smaller Wallace in the 2nd round?

Excuse me Blackwell is the best senior QB no one has heard of. The kid from Miami is a sophmore, so he has a couple years to make some noise.

SMadison29
12-19-2002, 03:11 PM
<<Ragone has fallen off big time due to the horrible season his team has had. Early reports for this class have him falling to the 2nd even 3rd round. I agre he will make up the ground, but he is not a sure fire 1st rounder yet. >>

I dont know what you're reading, but 3rd round is way wrong. Internet site rankings dont mean much, just supply information, but the one person's whose rankings to count are Kiper's, who currently has Ragone in the top 20. With Carolina, Cincy, Pitt, Chicago, & Arizona all needing QBs Ragone will go in round 1. You did say one thing right though, he hasn't played that great because of his team. It's not him. Even in last night's game vs Marshall he was running for his life.

<<How do you have Banks falling so far from grace due to his size, yet you have the much smaller Wallace in the 2nd round?>>

Because Banks is a one year wonder ala Akili Smith. Banks doesn't have nearly the arm, speed, & agility as Wallace. That being said I still dont think either one will be any good in the pros.


<<Excuse me Blackwell is the best senior QB no one has heard of. The kid from Miami is a sophmore, so he has a couple years to make some noise.>>

Blackwell falls in the same category as Banks & Wallace, plus he put up horrible numbers this year when he played good teams(Okla & Ark).

<<Say what you will about Kingsburry, but he is 6'4'' 230lb QB that put up amazing numbers playing one of the hardest schedules in college football. 400 yards and 6tds against Texas will earn him a lot of attention at the combine in Indy.>>

Did you not watch game, or any game that Kingsbury played this year? Dink & dunk passes all game with one deep completion out of 60 passes vs Texas. He sure didnt do that well the following week vs Oklahoma or earlier in the year vs Colorado.

Dajesus
12-20-2002, 02:54 AM
Blackwell didn't put up great numbers against Oak and Ark, but his teemates didn't deserve to be on the same feild as those teams. He Threw 2000+ yards and 18 tds to only 3 ints. Not bad for a team that is only in their 2nd year of D1. Oh yeah not to mention he lead USF to a 9-2 record in their 2nd season. I know he is in the same catergory as the other 2. I said it first, but you know at least 1 will make an impact in a few years.

Kingsburry had 2 great games against powerhouses, and 2 bad games against powerhouses. That is one more good game against a very good team than Palmer had. The only impressive game he played against a ranked opponet was Notre Dame, but again Notre Dame almost lost to 2-9 navy 2 weeks prior. Dink and Dunk who fing cares. The defense will game plan to the offense you play. Every one knew what he was going to do, but couldn't stop him. The Dolphins showed last week how easy you can stop a dink and dunk team.

SMadison29
12-20-2002, 03:30 PM
3 teams with defenses in the top 15 & he averaged 280 yards, 7 TDs total, 3 picks, & a comp% of 55%, not overly impressive, but not horrible given the competition. Kansas State is what really damaged his #s, but they damaged a lot of people's #s, afterall they are #1.

Carson vs Iowa should be a good game for him to showcase his talent on national tv again.

iceblizzard69
12-20-2002, 04:23 PM
The only reason why Ragone had such a ****ty season is because his offensive line sucks so bad that he is under intense pressure on every play, and to add to that his recievers suck as well, and they drop tons of balls. I feel bad for Ragone.

Dajesus
12-20-2002, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by SMadison29
3 teams with defenses in the top 15 & he averaged 280 yards, 7 TDs total, 3 picks, & a comp% of 55%, not overly impressive, but not horrible given the competition. Kansas State is what really damaged his #s, but they damaged a lot of people's #s, afterall they are #1.

Carson vs Iowa should be a good game for him to showcase his talent on national tv again.

I don't feel like going and looking it up, so K st and Notre Dame who is the 3rd?

Dajesus
12-20-2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by iceblizzard69
The only reason why Ragone had such a ****ty season is because his offensive line sucks so bad that he is under intense pressure on every play, and to add to that his recievers suck as well, and they drop tons of balls. I feel bad for Ragone.

You have to say the same thing for Kingsburry. Who else on TT was any good? Ragone's offensive scheme is going to hurt him. The NFL scouts don't like QBs who played out of shut gun 80% of the time. So many QBs that played in that type of offense struggle big time when they get to the NFL. Their footwork is usually horrendis, and they have a hard time getting the timeing down.

iceblizzard69
12-20-2002, 10:24 PM
He had to play out of a shotgun, if he didn't, he would have been sacked on nearly every play. If Louisville didn't have Ragone, they would have won 3 games tops.

SMadison29
12-21-2002, 01:16 AM
<<I don't feel like going and looking it up, so K st and Notre Dame who is the 3rd?>>

Surprisingly it's Arizona St.

<<If Louisville didn't have Ragone, they would have won 3 games tops.>>

That's probably being generous.

<<You have to say the same thing for Kingsburry. Who else on TT was any good? >>

Now Kingsburry did have one good WR(Wes Welker). Ragone literally had nobody. His TE Ghent was his best receiver, & he missed half the year.

SMadison29
12-24-2002, 02:00 AM
Those of you who are Kingsbury stat watchers that have never seen him play, did you watch the bowl game vs Clemson tonight. What I have been saying all along about Kingsbury proved to be true once again. He's more a product of the system than talent. 4 out of every 5 plays were 3 drop slants, WR screens, & HB screens. Helping my case was when BJ Symons was substituted in for Kingsbury when he sprained his ankle. Symons was in for two possessions, & both drives ended with him throwing a TD. He finished 7 of 9 with yards & 2 TDs.

Angneli
01-07-2003, 08:43 PM
No, but I was at the game v. Oklahoma and he had a terrible day.

SMadison29
01-19-2003, 01:49 AM
LOL, what did I tell you guys about Kingsbury. His stock plumeted big time at the Senior Bowl. I told you his arm sucked, & he's now locked himself up as a 2nd day project prospect.

Ragone took a little hit at the combine too for having the Rob Johnson syndrome(holding on to the ball too long), but he's still a solid late first to early 2nd rounder.

Dajesus
02-01-2003, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by SMadison29
LOL, what did I tell you guys about Kingsbury. His stock plumeted big time at the Senior Bowl. I told you his arm sucked, & he's now locked himself up as a 2nd day project prospect.

Ragone took a little hit at the combine too for having the Rob Johnson syndrome(holding on to the ball too long), but he's still a solid late first to early 2nd rounder.

The QB class is so entertaining. These guys are all over the place. Palmer and Leftwitch will be gone in the first round, but every one else could go from round 1 to round 3. It changes daily. It will be interesting to look back in a few years.

SMadison29
02-10-2003, 02:05 AM
I think this class as the potential to be better than the Couch, McNabb, Smith, Culpepper, McNown, King class. I really like the top 6 QBs of this class. The top 3 seem to be locked in: Palmer, Leftwich, & Grossman. The other 3 will go by team preferense.

Dajesus
02-12-2003, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by SMadison29
I think this class as the potential to be better than the Couch, McNabb, Smith, Culpepper, McNown, King class. I really like the top 6 QBs of this class. The top 3 seem to be locked in: Palmer, Leftwich, & Grossman. The other 3 will go by team preferense.

It is funny 2 years after that class everyone compare it to the '83 class, but look at it now. Cullpepper has struggled the last 2 years, McKnown is all but done, Smith can't get off the scout team in the worst QB rotation in the NFL, and King keeps dropping.

I agree Grossman is #3 right now, but he also didn't get to make an impression at any of the senoir bowls. I have a feeling his stock will fall a little in Indy when he is surrounding by so many 6'5'' QB prospects compared to his 6'1''. I also think teams may get scrared when they see him take the snap from under center every play something he rarely did at Florida. His gun will keep him high, but Ragone, Boeler, or Simms could squeek by him with impressive showings.

Dajesus
02-12-2003, 02:15 AM
Hey Madison since we are the only ones who care about this do you want to sound off on the big 6. Who do you think will flourish, and who do you think will struggle. Also who do you think out of the 2nd teir guys will hush the critics. Maybe in 3 years we will remember what we said.

Palmer and Simms are my picks to have very good careers. I think Leftwitch will be put in a horrible situation to perform right away dispite needing a year or two to make the leap from the MACC conference, and may never regain his confidence; thus, makeing him a bust. I also think Ragone will flop.

I think Banks after spending 2 years learing the game will have a good shot at being a very good QB. I also can't count out Dorsey against all my instincts. He does need to gain 20lbs, but you can't over look this kids record. he always would step up to the plate when Miami was actully challenged. He always played very well against his toughest competion. He also played under more preasure than any college QB in the nation for 2 years straight. He needs to work on his mechanics, and get better at his descion makeing, but he won't have the preasure of being first round QB that is expected to produce right away. If he gets taken by a team with an older expeirenced QB we may see a very good pro in a few years.

dolfan06
03-10-2003, 07:35 AM
..................it will be most interesting to see where dorsey ends up. i may be wrong but the guy didn't impress me at all, i think he had a great supporting cast , and thats about it!;)

donnie
03-11-2003, 09:48 PM
i am a canes fan and i am worried about dorseys future. His arm is to weak to be a solid starter in the NFL. Not only that but he didnt impress anybody at the combine. He was slow with horrible arm strength. All dorsey has to offer to any team is probably a solid 2nd or 3rd stringer with brains.

dolfan06
03-12-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by donnie
i am a canes fan and i am worried about dorseys future. His arm is to weak to be a solid starter in the NFL. Not only that but he didnt impress anybody at the combine. He was slow with horrible arm strength. All dorsey has to offer to any team is probably a solid 2nd or 3rd stringer with brains. this is exactly what i've seen!;)

Angneli
03-12-2003, 10:43 PM
dolfan06,

Write this date down, I agree with you. Dorsey is in much the same situation as Josh Huepel was. Great thinker, not as physical.

dolfan06
03-13-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Angneli
dolfan06,

Write this date down, I agree with you. Dorsey is in much the same situation as Josh Huepel was. Great thinker, not as physical. as a canes fan, i'm supposed to say all canes players rock, but i just don't see it in dorsey!:rolleyes: :(

Dajesus
03-28-2003, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by Angneli
dolfan06,

Write this date down, I agree with you. Dorsey is in much the same situation as Josh Huepel was. Great thinker, not as physical.

Big differince in Dorsey and Heuple is the size. Josh was barely 6'1'' and just under 200lbs. At 6'5'' 225 a team is going to give Dorsey a chance to mature. I doubt we hear his name for a couple of seasons, but with the right QB coach he could still be something special in a few years. Arm strength isn't like speed you can make drastic improvements. He needs to add some muscle, and learn how to gun on the run, and this kid could start someday. He is a winner, and I know he has the heart it will take to make the jump, but the QB coach will be the key. Greenbay would be a perfect fit for him with a 6th round pick. 2 to 3 years behind Farve and who knows.