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MikeO
11-08-2005, 04:36 PM
The Yanks are trying to trade Jorge Posada. If they can't they will have him play the majority of the time at first base and have Giambi DH.

Delgado to the Mets is a very real possibility according to Tom Verduicci.

And Tori Hunter isn't going to the Yanks for Robinson Cano. Minny wants to keep Hunter now and take him off the block.

LA trading Milton Bradly to NY is looking like a real possibility. They just want him gone.

Texas and Toronto are leading candidates for AJ Burnett.

Ray Finkle
11-08-2005, 04:39 PM
The Yanks are trying to trade Jorge Posada. If they can't they will have him play the majority of the time at first base and have Giambi DH.

From rotoworld.com/NY Post:
"Yankees GM Brian Cashman dismissed a rumor that Jorge Posada could start two or three games per week at first base next season.
Cashman said the Posada issue has "never been discussed." The Yankees would have to sign a quality catcher if they really intended to try something like that, but the ones that are available as free agents are likely to be too expensive. A trade of Posada can't be completely ruled out, though it remains as unlikely as ever. The 34-year-old will make $9 million next season and his $12 million option for 2007 vests with 82 starts."

So I guess that rumor is shot down now. Plus who would the Yankees get to catch?

NJFINSFAN1
11-08-2005, 05:29 PM
The Mets are still interested in Red Sox OF Manny Ramirez and they believe the slugger wants to play for them, says the Boston Herald.

The New York Daily News says there is buzz around the winter meetings that Mets OF Mike Cameron would like to be traded in order to play his natural position of center field. ...Meanwhile, the Newark Star-Ledger says one catching option for the Mets could be Detroit's Ivan Rodriguez, who was not happy last year in Detroit.

The agent for Mike Piazza has called the Blue Jays to gauge their interest in his client says Toronto's Globe and Mail.

MikeO
11-08-2005, 05:58 PM
From rotoworld.com/NY Post:
"Yankees GM Brian Cashman dismissed a rumor that Jorge Posada could start two or three games per week at first base next season.
Cashman said the Posada issue has "never been discussed." The Yankees would have to sign a quality catcher if they really intended to try something like that, but the ones that are available as free agents are likely to be too expensive. A trade of Posada can't be completely ruled out, though it remains as unlikely as ever. The 34-year-old will make $9 million next season and his $12 million option for 2007 vests with 82 starts."

So I guess that rumor is shot down now. Plus who would the Yankees get to catch?

Rumor is far from shot down. Molina is a free agent catcher, just trying to get his number down in contract talks.

Posada has a $4 mill buy out coming up soon, which makes him very attractive in trades.

MikeO
11-08-2005, 05:59 PM
Ugeth Urbina has been charged with attempted murder........wouldn't look for him to return anytime soon.

NJFINSFAN1
11-08-2005, 05:59 PM
Rumor is far from shot down. Molina is a free agent catcher, just trying to get his number down in contract talks.

Posada has a $4 mill buy out coming up soon, which makes him very attractive in trades.

Molina will be a Met.

MikeO
11-08-2005, 06:20 PM
Molina will be a Met.

Maybe, he will have a bunch of teams after him.

Ray Finkle
11-08-2005, 08:00 PM
Rumor is far from shot down. Molina is a free agent catcher, just trying to get his number down in contract talks.

Posada has a $4 mill buy out coming up soon, which makes him very attractive in trades.

What team is going to trade for a 34 year old catcher thats has been on the decline the past 2 years and makes $8 million dollars next year? Just because he has a 4 million dollar buy out you think a team will take him? That means that a team will pay Posada (assuming that the team buys out his team option) 12 million dollars for 1 year? Good luck to whichever team does that.

Also I'm sure you know this but in his contract it says that if he catches 63 games next season his $12 million option for the 2007 season is guaranteed (which might be one of the reasons why the Yankees might consider him to play 1st base so they can save themselves 8 million dollars for next year and decline his contract). So which ever team trades for Posada they'll have him for at least 2 years (in which he'll be 36) and paying him 20 million dollars. Again good luck moving him and his contract.

Ray Finkle
11-08-2005, 08:07 PM
The Mets are still interested in Red Sox OF Manny Ramirez and they believe the slugger wants to play for them, says the Boston Herald.

According to Peter Gammons/rotoworld.com:

"Agent Greg Genske told ESPN's Peter Gammons today that Manny Ramirez still isn't interested in going to the Mets.
Then where can Manny go? According to the Boston Globe's Gordon Edes, the Angels might be out, as neither Ramirez nor Garret Anderson wants to be a DH. Ramirez's other supposed preferred choice, Cleveland, doesn't seem very interested. If Ramirez would really block a trade to the Mets, then there's a good chance he'll be stuck in Boston."

Good news for Red Sox fans.... (for now). Who knows when Manny will change his mind again. It's funny because everytime a paper or someone puts out a report Manny wants to leave, something else comes out later that day saying he wants to stay or he doesn't want to go to Team A.

RWhitney014
11-08-2005, 08:36 PM
According to Peter Gammons/rotoworld.com:

"Agent Greg Genske told ESPN's Peter Gammons today that Manny Ramirez still isn't interested in going to the Mets.
Then where can Manny go? According to the Boston Globe's Gordon Edes, the Angels might be out, as neither Ramirez nor Garret Anderson wants to be a DH. Ramirez's other supposed preferred choice, Cleveland, doesn't seem very interested. If Ramirez would really block a trade to the Mets, then there's a good chance he'll be stuck in Boston."

Good news for Red Sox fans.... (for now). Who knows when Manny will change his mind again. It's funny because everytime a paper or someone puts out a report Manny wants to leave, something else comes out later that day saying he wants to stay or he doesn't want to go to Team A.

Cough, cough. :D :wink: :lol:

MikeO
11-08-2005, 10:23 PM
What team is going to trade for a 34 year old catcher thats has been on the decline the past 2 years and makes $8 million dollars next year? Just because he has a 4 million dollar buy out you think a team will take him? That means that a team will pay Posada (assuming that the team buys out his team option) 12 million dollars for 1 year? Good luck to whichever team does that.

Also I'm sure you know this but in his contract it says that if he catches 63 games next season his $12 million option for the 2007 season is guaranteed (which might be one of the reasons why the Yankees might consider him to play 1st base so they can save themselves 8 million dollars for next year and decline his contract). So which ever team trades for Posada they'll have him for at least 2 years (in which he'll be 36) and paying him 20 million dollars. Again good luck moving him and his contract.

He can catch/DH/1B if needed. A team with a young pitching staff that wants a vet behind the plate with some money to spend would take a flyer on him and pay him. He has trade value and in the right situation could excell. I think the Yanks keep him because he will be cheaper than the alternatives and probably more productive, but if a team wanted him and sent the right offer he could be had.

MikeO
11-08-2005, 10:24 PM
According to Peter Gammons/rotoworld.com:

"Agent Greg Genske told ESPN's Peter Gammons today that Manny Ramirez still isn't interested in going to the Mets.
Then where can Manny go? According to the Boston Globe's Gordon Edes, the Angels might be out, as neither Ramirez nor Garret Anderson wants to be a DH. Ramirez's other supposed preferred choice, Cleveland, doesn't seem very interested. If Ramirez would really block a trade to the Mets, then there's a good chance he'll be stuck in Boston."

Good news for Red Sox fans.... (for now). Who knows when Manny will change his mind again. It's funny because everytime a paper or someone puts out a report Manny wants to leave, something else comes out later that day saying he wants to stay or he doesn't want to go to Team A.

I don't see this as good news for Sox fans. He is going to be that lockeroom cancer if he is forced to stay in Boston. He doesn't want to be there. The team doesn't want him. This can only end badly.

Ray Finkle
11-08-2005, 11:57 PM
I don't see this as good news for Sox fans. He is going to be that lockeroom cancer if he is forced to stay in Boston. He doesn't want to be there. The team doesn't want him. This can only end badly.

Sorry but you know nothing about Manny in the clubhouse. The players LOVE the guy. He keeps everyone loose by playing pranks and joking around etc. He also has an extremely high work ethic and is one of the first players in the ballpark everyday working on both hitting and fielding. Of course none of these stories get out in the press because it doesn't get people talking.

How can you say the team doesn't want him? There has been numerous players that have come out and said that trading Manny would be a huge mistake. There's only 1 person in the Red Sox F.O. that wants Manny gone. Don't assume things if you don't have facts to back then up.

If Manny hated Boston so much like all the writers claim then why wouldn't Manny jump at a chance to play elsewhere with one of his best friends (Pedro)? The Red Sox can put numerous offers on the table to get rid of him but now it's going to be Manny's decision on whether or not he wants to stay. He has to ok the trade.

NJFINSFAN1
11-09-2005, 12:12 AM
Sorry but you know nothing about Manny in the clubhouse. The players LOVE the guy. He keeps everyone loose by playing pranks and joking around etc. He also has an extremely high work ethic and is one of the first players in the ballpark everyday working on both hitting and fielding. Of course none of these stories get out in the press because it doesn't get people talking.

How can you say the team doesn't want him? There has been numerous players that have come out and said that trading Manny would be a huge mistake. There's only 1 person in the Red Sox F.O. that wants Manny gone. Don't assume things if you don't have facts to back then up.

If Manny hated Boston so much like all the writers claim then why wouldn't Manny jump at a chance to play elsewhere with one of his best friends (Pedro)? The Red Sox can put numerous offers on the table to get rid of him but now it's going to be Manny's decision on whether or not he wants to stay. He has to ok the trade.

While I think you may be more right then Mike O about manny. Only Manny knows what he is thinking. He changes his mind more then my wife!

Ray Finkle
11-09-2005, 12:15 AM
While I think you may be more right then Mike O about manny. Only Manny knows what he is thinking. He changes his mind more then my wife!

I bet Manny doesn't even know what Manny is thinking. The only reason why I know a little bit more about Manny is because I know some of the current and ex-players, as well as a few people within the Red Sox organization.

PHINATIC13
11-09-2005, 12:23 AM
According to Peter Gammons/rotoworld.com:

"Agent Greg Genske told ESPN's Peter Gammons today that Manny Ramirez still isn't interested in going to the Mets.
Then where can Manny go? According to the Boston Globe's Gordon Edes, the Angels might be out, as neither Ramirez nor Garret Anderson wants to be a DH. Ramirez's other supposed preferred choice, Cleveland, doesn't seem very interested. If Ramirez would really block a trade to the Mets, then there's a good chance he'll be stuck in Boston."

Good news for Red Sox fans.... (for now). Who knows when Manny will change his mind again. It's funny because everytime a paper or someone puts out a report Manny wants to leave, something else comes out later that day saying he wants to stay or he doesn't want to go to Team A.

I would love to see Manny in a Halo uniform next year,it would be awesome to have him protect Vlad or vice versa.
Garret could always go back to CF,having said that I'm not sure what kind of contract Finley signed.Do you know? Cause if it was a one year deal,well see ya Steve(really let us down) and thanks for having a sh**y year.

MikeO
11-09-2005, 09:12 AM
Sorry but you know nothing about Manny in the clubhouse. The players LOVE the guy. He keeps everyone loose by playing pranks and joking around etc. He also has an extremely high work ethic and is one of the first players in the ballpark everyday working on both hitting and fielding. Of course none of these stories get out in the press because it doesn't get people talking.

How can you say the team doesn't want him? There has been numerous players that have come out and said that trading Manny would be a huge mistake. There's only 1 person in the Red Sox F.O. that wants Manny gone. Don't assume things if you don't have facts to back then up.

If Manny hated Boston so much like all the writers claim then why wouldn't Manny jump at a chance to play elsewhere with one of his best friends (Pedro)? The Red Sox can put numerous offers on the table to get rid of him but now it's going to be Manny's decision on whether or not he wants to stay. He has to ok the trade.

The players weren't loving him when he REFUSED to play that game in Tampa in August. They were ready to choke him and he started a mini-war and divided the clubhouse.

NJFINSFAN1
11-09-2005, 09:19 AM
I bet Manny doesn't even know what Manny is thinking. The only reason why I know a little bit more about Manny is because I know some of the current and ex-players, as well as a few people within the Red Sox organization.

I would not forget that Omar Minya and Martinez can be a big factor in talking with Manny. Again, I think its iffy, but could happen.

Word is the Mets are making a very big push for Wagner. And they may sign Dotel also to help the bullpen.

Ray Finkle
11-09-2005, 11:45 AM
I would love to see Manny in a Halo uniform next year,it would be awesome to have him protect Vlad or vice versa.
Garret could always go back to CF,having said that I'm not sure what kind of contract Finley signed.Do you know? Cause if it was a one year deal,well see ya Steve(really let us down) and thanks for having a sh**y year.

Steve Finley has a team option after the 2006 season. I'm not sure if there's a buy out involved but eventhough he looked pretty much done this year the Angels could possibly move him at the right price. But it'll be tough, the Angels would have to probably take on another teams bad contract.

Ray Finkle
11-09-2005, 12:02 PM
The players weren't loving him when he REFUSED to play that game in Tampa in August. They were ready to choke him and he started a mini-war and divided the clubhouse.

Mini-war and divided the clubhouse? Is MikeO Dan Shaughnessy? Is this a fact or just something you heard in the papers like everyone else? How do you know? Were you in the clubhouse? Do you talk to people in the organization to get these details?

Yes players were mad at him but it wasn't a big deal it was over and done with within a day. Just like the time he refused to play in 2002 or 2003 when he was spotted in a bar with Enique Wilson when he was suppose to be sick, remember that one? Players spend 9 months together so of course they're going to have their problems. There were tons of problems this year with the Red Sox (as well as every team in baseball), Manny wasn't the only one who made news. However that was very overblown by the media and of course the media didn't include the part of the story where Francona promised Manny that day off (which was a Wednesday) if he played in the Sunday's game vs. Chicago so he could have 2 days off to rest his leg injury.

Again just because the players got mad at him for 1 game doesn't mean they don't want him around. I'm sure you get into fights with family members or friends but still want them around too. You have no bases for saying that the team doesn't want him. Show me 1 article where players don't want him or said they would be better off without him. Because I can show you about 5 articles where players came out and said the Sox should keep Manny. Yeah he's a big cancer in the clubhouse if players are defending him.

He's a recent quote by Curt Schilling (who has been probably the most criticial of Manny): "I think Manny is just looking for change more than anything, and I think that this coming up every… and that’s not to belittle his emotions and feelings, I talked to Manny about this a couple of times towards the end of the season and expressed my desire that I didn’t want him to go if he could find a way to make it here. I think one of the things that tends to really catch guys off-guard is the attention you get off the field." -- 10.29, Curt Schilling on WEEI (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2005/10/schilling_on_ma_1.html)

Enough said, moving on....

Roman529
11-09-2005, 08:56 PM
I would think the Yankees would be trying to "retire" Bernie Williams in Centerfield, and maybe going for a guy like Juan Pierre who can cover a lot of
ground at the CF position and he can also be your leadoff hitter. In other sad news, relevier Ugueth Urbina tried to machete down five people in Venezuela so the Phillies are gonna need a new set up man :yell: .......But Ryan Howard got the NL Rook of the year. :1st:

MikeO
11-09-2005, 09:00 PM
I would think the Yankees would be trying to "retire" Bernie Williams in Centerfield, and maybe going for a guy like Juan Pierre who can cover a lot of
ground at the CF position and he can also be your leadoff hitter. In other sad news, relevier Ugueth Urbina tried to machete down five people in Venezuela so the Phillies are gonna need a new set up man :yell: .......But Ryan Howard got the NL Rook of the year. :1st:

Juan Pierre is old and on the downside of his career. He has no value at all, period.

Bernie is coming back to the NY and will take over the "Ruben Sierra role" of being that bat off the bench to pinch hit late in games. Nothing more, nothing less.

MikeO
11-09-2005, 09:04 PM
I would not forget that Omar Minya and Martinez can be a big factor in talking with Manny. Again, I think its iffy, but could happen.

Word is the Mets are making a very big push for Wagner. And they may sign Dotel also to help the bullpen.

I really don't think Manny wants to go to the NL let alone the Mets. IF he has no other options he will, but its his last choice.

1) Those NL parks are killer, he won't hit his 45 home runs in the NL, probably only around 35.

2) In NY the first time he doens't run out a ground ball, he will be fried on the cross.

3) He will have to play right field not left.

4) In the NL things like baserunning and the other finer points of the games are emphasised unlike in the AL with the DH.

The NL is a bad fit for Manny which is why Manny is trying to work LAA, Tex, and Cleveland first. But if his last option is the Mets I think he jumps. Tom Verduicci today on WFAN said Boston's front office hates the guy and wants him gone in the worst way and doesn't care about getting equal value in return at this point.

RWhitney014
11-09-2005, 09:05 PM
Juan Pierre is old and on the downside of his career. He has no value at all, period.

Bernie is coming back to the NY and will take over the "Ruben Sierra role" of being that bat off the bench to pinch hit late in games. Nothing more, nothing less.

Juan Pierre is 28 and can still fly. He had a down year last year, but he had a few hot streaks where he looked like normal. Believe me, the guy can still play. And he's better than a majority of leadoff hitters in MLB...to say he has no value is to say that Yanks will find someone to take Jorge Posada off their hands.

MikeO
11-09-2005, 09:11 PM
Juan Pierre is 28 and can still fly. He had a down year last year, but he had a few hot streaks where he looked like normal. Believe me, the guy can still play. And he's better than a majority of leadoff hitters in MLB...to say he has no value is to say that Yanks will find someone to take Jorge Posada off their hands.

He can't fly. The guy was caught stealing a ton this year. Pierre was once a great leadoff hitter those days are long gone. He had the most strikeouts in his career since 2002.

Pierre hit .276 this year. AWFUL for a lead off hitter. His OBP (which is huge for a leadoff hitter) took a huge drop this year. His best days are behind him and he isn't very good at all anymore

RWhitney014
11-09-2005, 10:20 PM
He can't fly. The guy was caught stealing a ton this year. Pierre was once a great leadoff hitter those days are long gone. He had the most strikeouts in his career since 2002.

Pierre hit .276 this year. AWFUL for a lead off hitter. His OBP (which is huge for a leadoff hitter) took a huge drop this year. His best days are behind him and he isn't very good at all anymore

I watched him play all season, Mike. In spring training he had a calf injury and rushed back. As a result, I think it affected him all season, on the bases and in the field. He didn't have nearly as many chopped infield hits and his jumps both in center and from first were poor. As the year went on, he got frustrated and started expanding the strike zone, leading to more Ks. I'm not going to sit here and argue he had a great year, because he didn't. In fact, his underwhelming performance was as costly for the Marlins as Lowell's, because without him on base Cabrera and Delgado had one less guy to drive in.

However, at 28 he should be entering his prime. He's got a lot left in the tank, and with his work ethic, the best in baseball, he won't stop until he's running on fumes. Literally.

FinsNYanksFan13
11-09-2005, 10:55 PM
I'll take Juan Pierre is center for the Yankees in a heartbeat. He's the truth!

NJFINSFAN1
11-10-2005, 10:08 AM
I would think the Yankees would be trying to "retire" Bernie Williams in Centerfield, and maybe going for a guy like Juan Pierre who can cover a lot of
ground at the CF position and he can also be your leadoff hitter. In other sad news, relevier Ugueth Urbina tried to machete down five people in Venezuela so the Phillies are gonna need a new set up man :yell: .......But Ryan Howard got the NL Rook of the year. :1st:

And a new closer when we steal Wagner from you!:rolleyes:

The Phillies' last standing offer to Billy Wagner, the 34-year-old with the 100 mph fastball, was for two years with a vesting third based on appearances. According to a baseball official it's for well below the $10 million per season he is almost certain to be offered by other clubs, including the Mets.
-- New York Daily News

NJFINSFAN1
11-10-2005, 01:46 PM
Last winter, the Mets went after the best free-agent starter on the market and landed Pedro Martinez. This winter, they could be looking at making it a back-to-back with A.J. Burnett. The Mets met with Burnett's agent, Darek Braunecker, yesterday at the GM meetings, and Braunecker said he believed "there's significant interest on their part.''
-- New York Post

FaninPatsyLand
11-10-2005, 01:58 PM
Juan Pierre is 28 and can still fly. He had a down year last year, but he had a few hot streaks where he looked like normal. Believe me, the guy can still play. And he's better than a majority of leadoff hitters in MLB...to say he has no value is to say that Yanks will find someone to take Jorge Posada off their hands.

:lol:

phunwin
11-10-2005, 02:47 PM
Brief predictions:

Wagner will be a Met, and Ramirez an Angel.

The Mets will simply blow everyone out of the water with an offer for Wagner. Hell, I'd bet they even go to a 4th year on the contract, which I think is stupid (I think 3 years is pushing it with Wagner, personally, but sometimes you've got to overpay to get what you want).

As for Ramirez, I agree with the scuttlebutt about Manny wanting to stay in the AL, and could care less whether he's a "clubhouse cancer". The guy drives in a $#!tpile of runs. Runs create wins, and wins create chemistry, not the other way around. Moreover, the Angels could offer an interesting package for Ramirez. Maybe Casey Kotchman and a couple good pitchers (a starter and a reliever, say, Jarrod Washburn and Brendan Donnelly).

And this is a pipe dream, but a follow up trade that would make sense is Kotchman for Mike Cameron. The Sox would get Cameron to play CF, making Johnny Damon expendable, and the Mets would get their first baseman for the next 10 years, and free up more money to fix the crappy bullpen.

NJFINSFAN1
11-10-2005, 03:09 PM
Brief predictions:

Wagner will be a Met, and Ramirez an Angel.

The Mets will simply blow everyone out of the water with an offer for Wagner. Hell, I'd bet they even go to a 4th year on the contract, which I think is stupid (I think 3 years is pushing it with Wagner, personally, but sometimes you've got to overpay to get what you want).

As for Ramirez, I agree with the scuttlebutt about Manny wanting to stay in the AL, and could care less whether he's a "clubhouse cancer". The guy drives in a $#!tpile of runs. Runs create wins, and wins create chemistry, not the other way around. Moreover, the Angels could offer an interesting package for Ramirez. Maybe Casey Kotchman and a couple good pitchers (a starter and a reliever, say, Jarrod Washburn and Brendan Donnelly).

And this is a pipe dream, but a follow up trade that would make sense is Kotchman for Mike Cameron. The Sox would get Cameron to play CF, making Johnny Damon expendable, and the Mets would get their first baseman for the next 10 years, and free up more money to fix the crappy bullpen.

Casey Kotchman would be interesting! Dotel will also be a Met!

FaninPatsyLand
11-10-2005, 04:41 PM
If they actually go ahead and trade Manny, it's going to piss off the entire region of New England. If it happens, we're losing our two best hitters and any shot of winning something meaningful next season

They won't be competitive at all, mind as well call up the kids like Ramirez, Lester, Pedroia ect. I can't believe the Red Sox organization is that stupid, but I guess we'll all find out soon enough.

phunwin
11-10-2005, 05:18 PM
If they actually go ahead and trade Manny, it's going to piss off the entire region of New England. If it happens, we're losing our two best hitters and any shot of winning something meaningful next season


Is David Ortiz on the move?

And I don't think for a minute that trading Manny would spark mass rioting in New England. They've talked about it so much that Sox fans couldn't possibly be shocked if/when it happens. Hell, they put the guy on irrevocable waivers two years ago.

RWhitney014
11-10-2005, 05:25 PM
Without Manny in the lineup, Ortiz would get the Bonds treatment, Phil. No reason to pitch to him.

FaninPatsyLand
11-10-2005, 05:28 PM
Is David Ortiz on the move?

And I don't think for a minute that trading Manny would spark mass rioting in New England. They've talked about it so much that Sox fans couldn't possibly be shocked if/when it happens. Hell, they put the guy on irrevocable waivers two years ago.

If Ramirez is gone, who's going to protect Big Papi? Trot Nixon? Jason Varitek? Please...

No one in their right mind would pitch to Big Papi, they'd need their head examined. He'll no doubt get the Bonds treatment, hell there were times this season when people pitched around Ortiz to get to Ramirez. That about says it all right there.

I don't think Red Sox fans are shocked about the rumors, I think a majority of Red Sox fans would be shocked if the Front Office actually pulled off a deal. I think then with his absence would reality really hit home. I think most Sox fans don't want to imagine life without Ramirez. It will be ugly..

Ray Finkle
11-10-2005, 05:37 PM
Rumor floating around is David Wells to San Diego for a pitcher and Dave Roberts.

NJFINSFAN1
11-10-2005, 05:57 PM
If Ramirez is gone, who's going to protect Big Papi? Trot Nixon? Jason Varitek? Please...

No one in their right mind would pitch to Big Papi, they'd need their head examined. He'll no doubt get the Bonds treatment, hell there were times this season when people pitched around Ortiz to get to Ramirez. That about says it all right there.

I don't think Red Sox fans are shocked about the rumors, I think a majority of Red Sox fans would be shocked if the Front Office actually pulled off a deal. I think then with his absence would reality really hit home. I think most Sox fans don't want to imagine life without Ramirez. It will be ugly..

Mike Cameron!:foundout: (http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=52#)

phunwin
11-11-2005, 09:13 AM
Rumor floating around is David Wells to San Diego for a pitcher and Dave Roberts.

That would be the weirdest trade of the offseason, bar none. Why wouldn't both teams have just hung onto those guys last year instead of letting them walk?

phunwin
11-11-2005, 09:32 AM
If Ramirez is gone, who's going to protect Big Papi? Trot Nixon? Jason Varitek? Please...

No one in their right mind would pitch to Big Papi, they'd need their head examined. He'll no doubt get the Bonds treatment, hell there were times this season when people pitched around Ortiz to get to Ramirez. That about says it all right there.

I don't think Red Sox fans are shocked about the rumors, I think a majority of Red Sox fans would be shocked if the Front Office actually pulled off a deal. I think then with his absence would reality really hit home. I think most Sox fans don't want to imagine life without Ramirez. It will be ugly..

The "protection" thing is horribly overrated. If Ortiz is on base 45% or 50% of the time, the Red Sox will score plenty of runs. Believe me, the Sox could do much worse than for Ortiz to get the "Bonds treatment". Except for this year, when Bonds was out pretty much all year, since 1997 (about when the "walk Bonds" thing started in earnest) the Giants have never finished lower than 6th in the NL in runs scored, and save for that one season (2003), they've finished 2nd or 3rd nearly every year. In 2004, Bonds was walked 232 times and the Giants finished SECOND in the NL in runs, despite having just two other 20 home run hitters on the team and a cast of stiffs in many spots in the lineup. But their numbers all ended up being better because Bonds was on base so often. And I'll note that, with or without Ramirez, the other batters in Boston's lineup are a lot better than those around Bonds.

Darth Saban
11-11-2005, 10:30 AM
i wonder if the Phillies should take a look at Posada. While Jorge had a sub-parr year last year, he was light years better than Mike Lieberthal. Pat Gillick the new GM said the Phils would be interested in looking for a new catcher but dont see anyone out there other than Molina who they dont really want. Bobby Abreu and Pat Burrell could be traded, and Jim Thome is almost certain to be gone. I wouldn't mind making a push for Posada because Lieberthal right now is just pathetic....

MikeO
11-11-2005, 02:40 PM
The "protection" thing is horribly overrated. If Ortiz is on base 45% or 50% of the time, the Red Sox will score plenty of runs. Believe me, the Sox could do much worse than for Ortiz to get the "Bonds treatment". Except for this year, when Bonds was out pretty much all year, since 1997 (about when the "walk Bonds" thing started in earnest) the Giants have never finished lower than 6th in the NL in runs scored, and save for that one season (2003), they've finished 2nd or 3rd nearly every year. In 2004, Bonds was walked 232 times and the Giants finished SECOND in the NL in runs, despite having just two other 20 home run hitters on the team and a cast of stiffs in many spots in the lineup. But their numbers all ended up being better because Bonds was on base so often. And I'll note that, with or without Ramirez, the other batters in Boston's lineup are a lot better than those around Bonds.

Bonds hasn't had protection in years (since Kent left) and it hasn't hurt him any.

MikeO
11-11-2005, 02:41 PM
ANOTHER RUMOR (let me stress rumor) is Irchiro to the Yanks to play CF in a trade.

FaninPatsyLand
11-11-2005, 02:47 PM
ANOTHER RUMOR (let me stress rumor) is Irchiro to the Yanks to play CF in a trade.

Now that would suck. I know alot of people don't think too highly of Ichiro, but I like him alot as a leadoff hitter. He's a major pain in the *** if he gets on base (ala Podsednik). And with Jeter and Sheffield batting behind him, it would be disaster for opposing teams.

And lets not forget that cannon in Centerfield that we haven't seen since the years before Bernie's been patrolling out there. :lol:

FaninPatsyLand
11-11-2005, 02:49 PM
The "protection" thing is horribly overrated. If Ortiz is on base 45% or 50% of the time, the Red Sox will score plenty of runs. Believe me, the Sox could do much worse than for Ortiz to get the "Bonds treatment". Except for this year, when Bonds was out pretty much all year, since 1997 (about when the "walk Bonds" thing started in earnest) the Giants have never finished lower than 6th in the NL in runs scored, and save for that one season (2003), they've finished 2nd or 3rd nearly every year. In 2004, Bonds was walked 232 times and the Giants finished SECOND in the NL in runs, despite having just two other 20 home run hitters on the team and a cast of stiffs in many spots in the lineup. But their numbers all ended up being better because Bonds was on base so often. And I'll note that, with or without Ramirez, the other batters in Boston's lineup are a lot better than those around Bonds.

I hope you are right about that. But I just wouldn't feel confident with Jason Varitek up in a big spot, when Ortiz is standing on first base. I hope we Red Sox fans don't have to experience it.

FinsNYanksFan13
11-11-2005, 03:15 PM
I doubt the Ichiro to the Yankees report is for real but if it is the Yankees better do it, even if it means giving up Cano!

MikeO
11-11-2005, 04:10 PM
I doubt the Ichiro to the Yankees report is for real but if it is the Yankees better do it, even if it means giving up Cano!

Gammons was talking about it on ESPN Radio today. Was reported in the NY POST and some other newspapers. It's a longshot, but its being discussed.

Ray Finkle
11-11-2005, 05:14 PM
Who else would the Yankees have to give up besides Cano, Wang, Pavano, Henn, Eric Duncan and Phillip Huber to get Ichiro?

Does Seattle possibly want ARod back so fans will stay after the 6th inning to see Alex hit that 3 run bomb in the 8th while his team is trailing 8 to 2 at the time?

Long shot is right. Seattle makes most of its money off of Ichiro both in Seattle and in Japan. I've heard reports that Ichiro is unhappy with the direction of the team but considering that Seattle's owner is in fact Japanese, and also that the Yankees don't really have good to decent prospects to get him (after all he's probably one of the top ten pure hitters in the game) but I highly doubt it. This wouldn't be a salary dump for Seattle because they have been spending money a lot recently, just not on what matters (pitching).

Word of advice to anyone listening to these hot stove reports, if Gammons reports or says something it's almost 98% certain it won't happen at all.

On to some news: Javy Vasquez wants out of Arizona by demanding his right to a trade. Arizona of course doesn't have to do anything, but it'll be interesting to see if they do in fact shop him due to the lack of Free Agent pitchers on the market.

MikeO
11-11-2005, 05:59 PM
Word of advice to anyone listening to these hot stove reports, if Gammons reports or says something it's almost 98% certain it won't happen at all.

.

Yes, a HALL OF FAME journalist has no credibility, but we are supposed to take what you say and believe it. :rofl3: :rofl3: :rofl3: :lol:

Bottom line is Ichiro has TOLD Seattle he is sick of losing and wants to be traded or for the team to spend money and be a contender. The ONLY team with the money to pay him at his current deal is the Yanks. The Yanks are looking for someone to play CF so its a natural fit as Ichiro could easily move there.

Nobody said it will happen, but it has been talked about between the clubs. Ichirco IS the Mariners so trading him is a huge decision and something they don't want to do. But if he isn't happy they either have to spend the money to make him happy.......or move him.

And this Yankees have no prospects thing is getting old too. For one, they do. They are just not trading them like in years past. Second, not every trade is for prospects, most trades are just payroll decisions or "money drops" in baseball. And if Seattle isn't going to spend money to be a "player" with the big boys, then dropping payroll with Ichiro makes all the sense in the world since he has now come out and said he isn't happy.

What does HALL OF FAME jouralist Peter Gammons know though.......you are RAY FINKLE :lol: :rofl3: Clearly knowing more than he does

Ray Finkle
11-11-2005, 07:10 PM
Yes, a HALL OF FAME journalist has no credibility, but we are supposed to take what you say and believe it. :rofl3: :rofl3: :rofl3: :lol:

Bottom line is Ichiro has TOLD Seattle he is sick of losing and wants to be traded or for the team to spend money and be a contender. The ONLY team with the money to pay him at his current deal is the Yanks. The Yanks are looking for someone to play CF so its a natural fit as Ichiro could easily move there.

Nobody said it will happen, but it has been talked about between the clubs. Ichirco IS the Mariners so trading him is a huge decision and something they don't want to do. But if he isn't happy they either have to spend the money to make him happy.......or move him.

And this Yankees have no prospects thing is getting old too. For one, they do. They are just not trading them like in years past. Second, not every trade is for prospects, most trades are just payroll decisions or "money drops" in baseball. And if Seattle isn't going to spend money to be a "player" with the big boys, then dropping payroll with Ichiro makes all the sense in the world since he has now come out and said he isn't happy.

What does HALL OF FAME jouralist Peter Gammons know though.......you are RAY FINKLE :lol: :rofl3: Clearly knowing more than he does

I'll take this one at a time. First I'll do the Seattle thing. First of all I'm not sure you're aware of this but Seattle HAS been spending money trying to be a player. What do you call signing Adrian Beltre, Richie Sexson, Raul Ibranez and Eddie Guardado in the past 2 years? Or how Seattle talks to every big name free agent on the market? Again you fail to actually read what people write.

The problem with Seattle is that they don't spend money on pitching, they spend it on bats. They bring up their young kids (Pinero, Meche, Felix Hernandez) and let them pitch instead whether its because they can't sign the big name pitchers or they use up their money on bats. Did you know Seattle has the 9th highest payroll in baseball, spending around 86 million dollars a season? (Probably not). Again it's not a salary dump as you may think it is.

As for the Yankees being the only team that can take his salary, you do realize that he makes around 12 million dollars a year (the same as Posada). That's pretty much a bargain for the numbers and defense he puts up. Again consider that Damon or Matsui will probably get the same amount of money or more this offseason and they're not the player Ichiro is. There's plenty of teams that if they had the chance to get him would, and have better players to offer them. I'm sure the Mets, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, and Baltimore would take him if they could. Again this is obviously just some wild rumor going around that someone started because there's nothing going on. Like the rumor of the Bobby Abreu for Vernon Wells trade that got started. Or the Gary Sheffield for Vernon Wells trade that you posted a while ago.

As for Gammons, please he's a joke. Yeah he's in the Hall of Fame but so what? The reason why he's in the Hall is because he's been writing articles for a million years and he did something that no other writer has ever done (at the time) which was write a "gossip type" column. Tell me one time when Gammons actually reported something correctly. The articles Gammons writes are nothing more then gossip columns. I'm sure if you read the Boston Globe and read more of his work you'd understand it. Some of his past stories he put out that were totally false was: The Red Sox would trade for Albert Pujols (once they lost out on Arod), Red Sox will talk and try everything they can to sign Clemens (after his retirement), Nomar and Pedro will be back in Boston (at the beginning of the 2004 season), and just days ago Theo was coming back to be the GM again. In fact there are tons of people they say if Gammons reports it it won't happen. I'm not the only one.

But of course Mike, again you're right about everything. Like how Juan Pierre is old :lol:.

MikeO
11-11-2005, 10:48 PM
I'll take this one at a time. First I'll do the Seattle thing. First of all I'm not sure you're aware of this but Seattle HAS been spending money trying to be a player. What do you call signing Adrian Beltre, Richie Sexson, Raul Ibranez and Eddie Guardado in the past 2 years? Or how Seattle talks to every big name free agent on the market? Again you fail to actually read what people write.

The problem with Seattle is that they don't spend money on pitching, they spend it on bats. They bring up their young kids (Pinero, Meche, Felix Hernandez) and let them pitch instead whether its because they can't sign the big name pitchers or they use up their money on bats. Did you know Seattle has the 9th highest payroll in baseball, spending around 86 million dollars a season? (Probably not). Again it's not a salary dump as you may think it is.

As for the Yankees being the only team that can take his salary, you do realize that he makes around 12 million dollars a year (the same as Posada). That's pretty much a bargain for the numbers and defense he puts up. Again consider that Damon or Matsui will probably get the same amount of money or more this offseason and they're not the player Ichiro is. There's plenty of teams that if they had the chance to get him would, and have better players to offer them. I'm sure the Mets, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, and Baltimore would take him if they could. Again this is obviously just some wild rumor going around that someone started because there's nothing going on. Like the rumor of the Bobby Abreu for Vernon Wells trade that got started. Or the Gary Sheffield for Vernon Wells trade that you posted a while ago.

As for Gammons, please he's a joke. Yeah he's in the Hall of Fame but so what? The reason why he's in the Hall is because he's been writing articles for a million years and he did something that no other writer has ever done (at the time) which was write a "gossip type" column. Tell me one time when Gammons actually reported something correctly. The articles Gammons writes are nothing more then gossip columns. I'm sure if you read the Boston Globe and read more of his work you'd understand it. Some of his past stories he put out that were totally false was: The Red Sox would trade for Albert Pujols (once they lost out on Arod), Red Sox will talk and try everything they can to sign Clemens (after his retirement), Nomar and Pedro will be back in Boston (at the beginning of the 2004 season), and just days ago Theo was coming back to be the GM again. In fact there are tons of people they say if Gammons reports it it won't happen. I'm not the only one.

But of course Mike, again you're right about everything. Like how Juan Pierre is old :lol:.

1) Juan Pierre isn't a very good player. I stand by that. His stats are declining.

2) Seattle may be spending money, but obviously not enough to make ICHIRO happy. That is the entire point which you FAIL to see. Is ICHIRO happy! That is the point. He isn't! Keep spending at that level, fine....he isn't happy with the way the team is being run. He wants out or them to pony up and improve the team to HIS standards.

3) Gammons is he best in the business.....to think otherwise is just being a moron. :rolleyes: He is in the HALL OF FAME! The MLB HALL OF FAME, they don't just let anyone in. He must have reported something correctly in his life, and Im guessing more than once.

4) Ichiro is pretty much calling his own shot. NY is attractive to him, he wants to go there. The ONLY team he is considering leaving Seattle for is the Yanks. Sure, maybe 2 or 3 other teams could squeeze him in their payroll (he's gonna want an extension also lets not forget that) but in reality the only trading partner for Seattle is the NY Yankees when it comes to Ichrio. Probably won't even happen this is just a power play for an extension for himself or to put pressure on the organization to improve. Either way, he is calling the shot and NY is his only option.

Darth Saban
11-12-2005, 10:48 AM
I'll take this one at a time. First I'll do the Seattle thing. First of all I'm not sure you're aware of this but Seattle HAS been spending money trying to be a player. What do you call signing Adrian Beltre, Richie Sexson, Raul Ibranez and Eddie Guardado in the past 2 years? Or how Seattle talks to every big name free agent on the market? Again you fail to actually read what people write.

The problem with Seattle is that they don't spend money on pitching, they spend it on bats. They bring up their young kids (Pinero, Meche, Felix Hernandez) and let them pitch instead whether its because they can't sign the big name pitchers or they use up their money on bats. Did you know Seattle has the 9th highest payroll in baseball, spending around 86 million dollars a season? (Probably not). Again it's not a salary dump as you may think it is.

As for the Yankees being the only team that can take his salary, you do realize that he makes around 12 million dollars a year (the same as Posada). That's pretty much a bargain for the numbers and defense he puts up. Again consider that Damon or Matsui will probably get the same amount of money or more this offseason and they're not the player Ichiro is. There's plenty of teams that if they had the chance to get him would, and have better players to offer them. I'm sure the Mets, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, and Baltimore would take him if they could. Again this is obviously just some wild rumor going around that someone started because there's nothing going on. Like the rumor of the Bobby Abreu for Vernon Wells trade that got started. Or the Gary Sheffield for Vernon Wells trade that you posted a while ago.

As for Gammons, please he's a joke. Yeah he's in the Hall of Fame but so what? The reason why he's in the Hall is because he's been writing articles for a million years and he did something that no other writer has ever done (at the time) which was write a "gossip type" column. Tell me one time when Gammons actually reported something correctly. The articles Gammons writes are nothing more then gossip columns. I'm sure if you read the Boston Globe and read more of his work you'd understand it. Some of his past stories he put out that were totally false was: The Red Sox would trade for Albert Pujols (once they lost out on Arod), Red Sox will talk and try everything they can to sign Clemens (after his retirement), Nomar and Pedro will be back in Boston (at the beginning of the 2004 season), and just days ago Theo was coming back to be the GM again. In fact there are tons of people they say if Gammons reports it it won't happen. I'm not the only one.

But of course Mike, again you're right about everything. Like how Juan Pierre is old :lol:.

When has Gammons not reported something correctly?

unifiedtheory
11-12-2005, 08:07 PM
I'll just interrupt this Yankee thread by saying the A's need a bat.:tongue:

NJFINSFAN1
11-12-2005, 08:12 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/11/7488-1.jpg His ugly collision with center fielder Carlos Beltran should have been the final straw convincing the Mets' brass that it is a bad idea to have Cameron playing anywhere other than center field. He's got a lot of talent but hasn't done much offensively since 2002. He hasn't been happy in New York since he's been displaced and a trade would do both Cameron and the Mets good.
Potential Suitors: Yankees, Padres







Carlos Delgado (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/7556), Marlinshttp://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/11/7556-1.jpg You never know in Florida because the Marlins, without a new stadium on the docks, are always scrambling for money and rearranging their furniture. Delgado had a solid first season in Florida after signing there as a free agent, but it wasn't the knock-your-socks-off season the Marlins were hoping for. They will dangle him this winter to see what the reaction is.
Potential Suitors: Mets, Red Sox Manny Ramirez (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/7996), Red Soxhttp://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/11/7996-1.jpg Manny and the Red Sox have reached the proverbial fork in the road. He keeps requesting to be traded and now is threatening to not report to spring training if he isn't. The Sox, tired of his act, explored a possible Manny trade in July. Look for them to work hard on it this winter.
Potential Suitors: Mets, Angels

wazzy
11-12-2005, 08:19 PM
Blue Jays will get Burnett and we will have a pitching staff to worry about if we tweak a few things around and Halladay stays healthy.

Ray Finkle
11-13-2005, 01:15 AM
1) Juan Pierre isn't a very good player. I stand by that. His stats are declining.

2) Seattle may be spending money, but obviously not enough to make ICHIRO happy. That is the entire point which you FAIL to see. Is ICHIRO happy! That is the point. He isn't! Keep spending at that level, fine....he isn't happy with the way the team is being run. He wants out or them to pony up and improve the team to HIS standards.

3) Gammons is he best in the business.....to think otherwise is just being a moron. :rolleyes: He is in the HALL OF FAME! The MLB HALL OF FAME, they don't just let anyone in. He must have reported something correctly in his life, and Im guessing more than once.

4) Ichiro is pretty much calling his own shot. NY is attractive to him, he wants to go there. The ONLY team he is considering leaving Seattle for is the Yanks. Sure, maybe 2 or 3 other teams could squeeze him in their payroll (he's gonna want an extension also lets not forget that) but in reality the only trading partner for Seattle is the NY Yankees when it comes to Ichrio. Probably won't even happen this is just a power play for an extension for himself or to put pressure on the organization to improve. Either way, he is calling the shot and NY is his only option.

1.) I wasn't arguing whether of not Pierre was good, I was simply making fun of you for calling a 28 year old baseball player old. Especially considering if he was on your favorite team he'd be the 3rd youngest player. Again I stress the fact that you read what people write and not assume things they didn't.

2.) God forbid if Ichiro isn't happy. He signed a contract to play baseball for the Seattle Mariners. If he's not happy too bad. Seattle doesn't have to do anything to please him, he's their property. Sure it's smart for a team to keep their best player happy however Seattle is spending money, just not well obviously.

3.) The Hall of Fame doesn't let anyone in? He's a sports writer, not a ball player. If you're in the game long enough and are popular you'll get in. Best in the business? That's debateble, and obviously just your opinion.

4.) Does Ichiro have a no trade in his contract? I honestly don't know. If he does then you're right he can call his own shot, if he doesn't he's got no say in anything. If Ichiro doesn't have a no trade clause then how can you say the Yankees are the only trading partner for Seattle? Like I said there are a bunch of teams with better prospects then the Yankees and also have better everyday players with smaller contracts to give to Seattle.

I personally don't know why we're even fighting about this. The Ichiro to the Yankees thing isn't big news (it never was), and I highly doubt Seattle is going to trade him anytime soon, if at all. I'm done with the Ichiro to NY thing. I gave my 2 cents.

MikeO
11-13-2005, 01:17 AM
Blue Jays will get Burnett and we will have a pitching staff to worry about if we tweak a few things around and Halladay stays healthy.

Halladay stay healthy.........start lighting candles and praying now

Ray Finkle
11-13-2005, 01:18 AM
When has Gammons not reported something correctly?

If you read what you quoted me on then I gave 3 or 4 examples of things he's said that wasn't reported correctly.

MikeO
11-13-2005, 01:18 AM
I'll just interrupt this Yankee thread by saying the A's need a bat.:tongue:

Oakland could add a bat, won't help them get past the 1st round of the playoffs. They never get past the 1st round of the playoffs

MikeO
11-13-2005, 01:19 AM
If you read what you quoted me on then I gave 3 or 4 examples of things he's said that wasn't reported correctly.

But you first said he has never reported anything correctly....ever!

MikeO
11-13-2005, 01:20 AM
2.) God forbid if Ichiro isn't happy. He signed a contract to play baseball for the Seattle Mariners. If he's not happy too bad. Seattle doesn't have to do anything to please him, he's their property. Sure it's smart for a team to keep their best player happy however Seattle is spending money, just not well obviously.

.

What are we in slave owner days!:rofl3: Yes, massa...no massa!

MikeO
11-13-2005, 01:22 AM
I personally don't know why we're even fighting about this. The Ichiro to the Yankees thing isn't big news (it never was), and I highly doubt Seattle is going to trade him anytime soon, if at all. I'm done with the Ichiro to NY thing. I gave my 2 cents.

I would want to pipe down also if I were you after those Gammons comments.

Nobody said it was a big story, just a rumor going around and reported by ESPN, and a few newspapers.

unifiedtheory
11-13-2005, 06:58 AM
Oakland could add a bat, won't help them get past the 1st round of the playoffs. They never get past the 1st round of the playoffs

We've had this arguement 1,000 times.

The A's teams of the late 90's that made the playoffs and blew 2-0 leads in the first round are totally different then the team they have now.

And saying they NEVER get past the first round of the playoffs is also false...they appeared in three consectutive World Series (1988-1990) but, that was a TOTALLY different A's team then there is now. Argueing that would be as pointless as your arguement.

When THIS A's team ****s the bed in the first round then we'll talk about it. Until then go back to figuring out how the Yankees can win a playoff series with a 200 million dollar payroll.

MikeO
11-13-2005, 09:00 AM
We've had this arguement 1,000 times.

The A's teams of the late 90's that made the playoffs and blew 2-0 leads in the first round are totally different then the team they have now.

And saying they NEVER get past the first round of the playoffs is also false...they appeared in three consectutive World Series (1988-1990) but, that was a TOTALLY different A's team then there is now. Argueing that would be as pointless as your arguement.

When THIS A's team ****s the bed in the first round then we'll talk about it. Until then go back to figuring out how the Yankees can win a playoff series with a 200 million dollar payroll.

why bring the Yanks into this? It has nothing to do with the A's. Take your 2nd city mentality back home.

And you wanna compare rings and history of the franchise? I think not!

unifiedtheory
11-13-2005, 01:44 PM
why bring the Yanks into this? It has nothing to do with the A's. Take your 2nd city mentality back home.

And you wanna compare rings and history of the franchise? I think not!

You brought up a point that was irrelevent and I made a comparison that was just as irrelevent.

When did I say a SINGLE thing about rings and history of the franchise?

PressCoverage
11-13-2005, 03:57 PM
oh... so the Spankees and their bought titles have been brought into this discussion? cool:

http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/yankees.htm

and my favorite list:

http://www.yanks-suck.com/reasons.php#50

Ray Finkle
11-13-2005, 07:10 PM
I would want to pipe down also if I were you after those Gammons comments.

:lol:

Now if only we can get to you pipe down on all your comments....

Ray Finkle
11-15-2005, 02:44 AM
Per rotoworld.com:

The Cubs are close to getting Juan Pierre from the Marlins in exchange for minor league prospects according to ESPN Radio.

NJFINSFAN1
11-15-2005, 09:19 AM
Newsday says Mets GM Omar Minaya was among the most aggressive officials at the winter meetings and wants to make a trade or two before diving into free agency. The newspaper said Minaya would part with Mike Cameron, Kris Benson, Steve Trachsel, Aaron Heilman or Jae Seo and has interest in Boston's Manny Ramirez, Tampa Bay's Danys Baez, Aubrey Huff and Julio Lugo, Cincinnati's Adam Dunn, Florida's Carlos Delgado and Milwaukee's Lyle Overbay.

The Padres reportedly have an eye on Mike Cameron of the Mets with reliever Akinori Otsuka among the possible players who could head to New York, says the New York Daily News.

The Marlins have gotten calls from the Braves and Cubs about free agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez, says the South Florida Sun Sentinel, which adds the team believes it will be able to get rid of 3B Mike Lowell, but will have to absorb about half the $9 million he's owed for each of the next two years.

Slappy8800
11-15-2005, 09:24 AM
i dont ghet the yankees hatred...they dont cheat, the owner puts the money back into the team instead of in his pocket...i dont get it..ill chalk it up to jealousy i guess

phunwin
11-15-2005, 09:44 AM
Newsday says Mets GM Omar Minaya was among the most aggressive officials at the winter meetings and wants to make a trade or two before diving into free agency. The newspaper said Minaya would part with Mike Cameron, Kris Benson, Steve Trachsel, Aaron Heilman or Jae Seo and has interest in Boston's Manny Ramirez, Tampa Bay's Danys Baez, Aubrey Huff and Julio Lugo, Cincinnati's Adam Dunn, Florida's Carlos Delgado and Milwaukee's Lyle Overbay.

The Padres reportedly have an eye on Mike Cameron of the Mets with reliever Akinori Otsuka among the possible players who could head to New York, says the New York Daily News.

The Marlins have gotten calls from the Braves and Cubs about free agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez, says the South Florida Sun Sentinel, which adds the team believes it will be able to get rid of 3B Mike Lowell, but will have to absorb about half the $9 million he's owed for each of the next two years.

Boy, Dunn would look good at first base for us next year. Cincy needs pitching in the worst way, and Seo would be a great fit for them. He keeps the ball down and has a high G/F ratio. Of course, it would take a lot more than just Seo to land Dunn.

Funny how Benson might actually be in some demand after everyone ripped the Mets for signing him to that contract last year.

MikeO
11-15-2005, 09:51 AM
i dont ghet the yankees hatred...they dont cheat, the owner puts the money back into the team instead of in his pocket...i dont get it..ill chalk it up to jealousy i guess

someone gets its.

NJFINSFAN1
11-15-2005, 09:57 AM
Boy, Dunn would look good at first base for us next year. Cincy needs pitching in the worst way, and Seo would be a great fit for them. He keeps the ball down and has a high G/F ratio. Of course, it would take a lot more than just Seo to land Dunn.

Funny how Benson might actually be in some demand after everyone ripped the Mets for signing him to that contract last year.

Yeah, the problem with Dunn is he strikes out a ton, but also hits a ton.

I'm intriged by this trade (Danys Baez, Aubrey Huff and Julio Lugo) for pitching and prospects. As long as Lasting M stays put!


The Mets are prepared to outbid the Philadelphia Phillies -- and every other team, for that matter -- in their pursuit of free-agent closer Billy Wagner. Whether they land him or not will depend on whether Wagner, who makes his home in gentile Charlottesville, Va., would rather pitch in Philadelphia, where he has comfortably spent the last two seasons, or relocate to New York. It surely won't, the Mets believe, come down to money.
-- Newark Star-Ledger

NJFINSFAN1
11-15-2005, 09:59 AM
i dont ghet the yankees hatred...they dont cheat, the owner puts the money back into the team instead of in his pocket...i dont get it..ill chalk it up to jealousy i guess

No, I would say its more because of the stuffy Yankee fans that always talk trash and come across like they think they are better then everyone else when they talk or type!:rolleyes:

NJFINSFAN1
11-15-2005, 10:07 AM
Per rotoworld.com:

The Cubs are close to getting Juan Pierre from the Marlins in exchange for minor league prospects according to ESPN Radio.


Reportedly, the Marlins' Juan Pierre might be dealt this winter. Apparently, it won't be to the Yankees. At last week's GM meetings, the Marlins didn't approach the Yankees about Pierre -- and the Bombers didn't inquire about him, a source said yesterday.
-- New York Post

phunwin
11-15-2005, 10:41 AM
Yeah, the problem with Dunn is he strikes out a ton, but also hits a ton.

I'm intriged by this trade (Danys Baez, Aubrey Huff and Julio Lugo) for pitching and prospects. As long as Lasting M stays put!


Strikeouts are overrated. Dunn also draws a ton of walks and we need some guys who can actually get on base. Maybe Jose Reyes will learn something by watching Dunn work the count. (Or, more likely, he won't.)

Baez, Huff AND Lugo? We'd have to clean out the minor league system to get that package. Huff's a better player than he showed last year, but Lugo's a worse player, so it probably evens out.

FaninPatsyLand
11-15-2005, 01:37 PM
No, I would say its more because of the stuffy Yankee fans that always talk trash and come across like they think they are better then everyone else when they talk or type!:rolleyes:

Agreed!

unifiedtheory
11-15-2005, 08:47 PM
i dont ghet the yankees hatred...they dont cheat, the owner puts the money back into the team instead of in his pocket...i dont get it..ill chalk it up to jealousy i guess

I never said I hate the Yankees.

In fact, I've said on more then one occasion I respect the hell out of them.

They have a history that is unmatched in professional sports (the only other team that even has an arguement in the history department is the Montreal Candiens).

The only time I bring up negative comments about the Yankees is when MikeO bashes MY TEAM because they have had a tough time in the playoffs the last couple of times they made it....an arguement that could go around and around forever incidentially.

I don't think the Yankees cheat at all...in fact I think they are great for the sport. When the Yankees are good the sport is better for it.

Do I agree with HOW they have gone about business the last 5 years or so? No. It is not their fault though. There is nothing stopping them from spending the money they generate (accept a laughable luxery tax). The thing I find funny is, when they were a DOMINANT team about 5 years ago they were winning with a core of homegrown talent and smart free agent signings. Now, it seems to me at least, they sign anyone who is a name.

Until there is a system in place (not holding by breath on that one) to even the competative balance in baseball it will remain this way.

I'll just watch my team plug away, hope for health from my pitching, a breakout year at the plate from Bobby Crosby and some luck...

NJFINSFAN1
11-15-2005, 08:50 PM
I never said I hate the Yankees.

In fact, I've said on more then one occasion I respect the hell out of them.

They have a history that is unmatched in professional sports (the only other team that even has an arguement in the history department is the Montreal Candiens).

The only time I bring up negative comments about the Yankees is when MikeO bashes MY TEAM because they have had a tough time in the playoffs the last couple of times they made it....an arguement that could go around and around forever incidentially.

I don't think the Yankees cheat at all...in fact I think they are great for the sport. When the Yankees are good the sport is better for it.

Do I agree with HOW they have gone about business the last 5 years or so? No. It is not their fault though. There is nothing stopping them from spending the money they generate (accept a laughable luxery tax). The thing I find funny is, when they were a DOMINANT team about 5 years ago they were winning with a core of homegrown talent and smart free agent signings. Now, it seems to me at least, they sign anyone who is a name.

Until there is a system in place (not holding by breath on that one) to even the competative balance in baseball it will remain this way.

I'll just watch my team plug away, hope for health from my pitching, a breakout year at the plate from Bobby Crosby and some luck...

Come on, come out of the closet! Your a Met fan!:) We welcome all!:lol:

unifiedtheory
11-15-2005, 08:52 PM
Come on, come out of the closet! Your a Met fan!:) We welcome all!:lol:

Been an A's fan as long as I can remember my friend. :tongue:

PressCoverage
11-15-2005, 09:08 PM
i dont ghet the yankees hatred...they dont cheat, the owner puts the money back into the team instead of in his pocket...i dont get it..ill chalk it up to jealousy i guess

nah... it's not so much the players, nor is it jealousy.... it's really more about their no-it-all, rub-your-face-in-it fans... that's why they're so universally hated... :rolleyes:

NJFINSFAN1
11-15-2005, 09:21 PM
Been an A's fan as long as I can remember my friend. :tongue:

1973!:lol:

I knew that!

Slappy8800
11-16-2005, 08:50 AM
Its not like the yankees are the only team with rowdy fans...Red Sox fans and Mets fans come to mind because they are local...every team has rowdy fans.

phunwin
11-16-2005, 09:19 AM
And so another perfectly good baseball thread becomes a "Yankees Suck!"/"Yankees Rule!" shouting match.

NJFINSFAN1
11-16-2005, 09:28 AM
Despite overtures to closers Billy Wagner (Philadelphia) and Trevor Hoffman (San Diego), general manager Omar Minaya is talking to Tampa Bay about closer Danys Baez and first baseman Aubrey Huff.

The Mets' offer could include young pitchers Aaron Heilman, Jae Seo and Yusmeiro Petit.

Baez saved 41 games for the Devil Rays, and Huff has averaged 101 RBI over the past three years. They would be a more economical fit than signing Wagner to a long-term deal.

Ray Finkle
11-16-2005, 11:29 AM
Despite overtures to closers Billy Wagner (Philadelphia) and Trevor Hoffman (San Diego), general manager Omar Minaya is talking to Tampa Bay about closer Danys Baez and first baseman Aubrey Huff.

The Mets' offer could include young pitchers Aaron Heilman, Jae Seo and Yusmeiro Petit.

Baez saved 41 games for the Devil Rays, and Huff has averaged 101 RBI over the past three years. They would be a more economical fit than signing Wagner to a long-term deal.

Why don't the Mets sign Wagner and trade for Baez and Huff? They certainly can afford it. Wagner is a top closer, and Baez would be a pretty good set up man (assuming Baez wouldn't mind setting up). Plus if Wagner goes down on an injury Baez can set up. You can never have too much pitching.

Although I like what I see from Heilman and Petit, I think they'll be pretty good in the future.

phunwin
11-16-2005, 02:53 PM
I don't think dealing Heilman for Baez makes sense. Heilman is younger and already almost as good as Baez. I'm also sort of leery about dealing for a first baseman, though I do like Huff. I would get a right handed bat to platoon with Jacobs, instead. The resources they have are better spent on strengthening the bullpen and getting a new catcher, and perhaps a 2B.

NJFINSFAN1
11-17-2005, 05:54 PM
The Yankees must be very serious about landing CF Brian Giles, because according to several New York newspapers, manager Joe Torre has called the free agent himself.

Ray Finkle
11-17-2005, 06:29 PM
The Yankees must be very serious about landing CF Brian Giles, because according to several New York newspapers, manager Joe Torre has called the free agent himself.

Giles is a pretty good player and hitter, but in my opinion it's a bad move on the Yankees part. They already have a weak defensive outfield with Matsui and Sheffield, adding Giles won't help them any.

Also when was the last time Giles played CF? Wouldn't they move Matsui to CF instead and have Giles play LF?

NJFINSFAN1
11-17-2005, 06:31 PM
Giles is a pretty good player and hitter, but in my opinion it's a bad move on the Yankees part. They already have a weak defensive outfield with Matsui and Sheffield, adding Giles won't help them any.

Also when was the last time Giles played CF? Wouldn't they move Matsui to CF instead and have Giles play LF?

Matsui is not real good in center. But I'm not a Yank, fan, I'll let MikeO get back to you on that!:rolleyes:

Ray Finkle
11-17-2005, 06:35 PM
Matsui is not real good in center. But I'm not a Yank, fan, I'll let MikeO get back to you on that!:rolleyes:

:lol:

Matsui isn't a very good LFer either. He gets rid of the ball quickly out of his glove however at times he makes Manny Ramirez look good in LF.

unifiedtheory
11-17-2005, 08:11 PM
The Yankees must be very serious about landing CF Brian Giles, because according to several New York newspapers, manager Joe Torre has called the free agent himself.

Damn, I wish the A;s had some loot to spend....Giles would be PERFECT.

NJFINSFAN1
11-17-2005, 08:50 PM
Damn, I wish the A;s had some loot to spend....Giles would be PERFECT.

They spend it on surf boards!

FaninPatsyLand
11-17-2005, 11:48 PM
:lol:

Matsui isn't a very good LFer either. He gets rid of the ball quickly out of his glove however at times he makes Manny Ramirez look good in LF.

Manny is underrated defensively...

Matsui is just a defensive liability, he sucks out there.

Ray Finkle
11-18-2005, 12:17 AM
Manny is underrated defensively...

Matsui is just a defensive liability, he sucks out there.

I agree Manny is underrated defensively only because he's not as bad as people (like announcers/new reporters) make him out to do. Sure he makes a a brain fart in the outfield at least once a month however he makes all the tough plays. It's just those easy routine fly balls that make you nervous.

dob72
11-18-2005, 02:51 AM
oh... so the Spankees and their bought titles have been brought into this discussion? cool:

http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/yankees.htm

and my favorite list:

http://www.yanks-suck.com/reasons.php#50
here's a good one

http://www.derok.net/derok/yankees10commandments.html

MikeO
11-18-2005, 10:09 AM
Manny is underrated defensively...

Matsui is just a defensive liability, he sucks out there.

Manny and Matsui aren't getting paid big bucks for their defense. And let's just leave it at that.

NJFINSFAN1
11-18-2005, 12:32 PM
Interesting from CBS sportsline:

The South Florida Sun-Sentinel says the Mets are ratcheting up their pursuit of Marlins 1B Carlos Delgado, and could send Xavier Nady, who is about to land in New York from San Diego, to Florida in the deal.

Ray Finkle
11-18-2005, 05:20 PM
Here's some Friday Hot Stove News:

All from rotoworld.com:

-A person who spoke with Carl Pavano late in the 2005 season said Pavano was "miserable" with the Yankees and that he would like the team to try to trade him this winter.

-Free agent B.J. Ryan recently told a friend he does not want to deal with the "stress" of pitching for the Yankees. He's expected to take a closer's job elsewhere.

-According to the New York Post, there are not currently any active discussions between the Mets and Red Sox about Manny Ramirez."

NorthFloridaFin
11-18-2005, 05:56 PM
Atlanta Braves - Chipper Jones has restructured his contract to roughly around 6 mil for 2006. This will inevidetely make cap room so the Braves can re-sign Rafael Furcal, keeping him from becoming a F.A. This will give the Braves some much needed room to go after an elite closer (Billy Wagner or Trevor Hoffman have both expressed interest in going to Atlanta).

FinsNYanksFan13
11-18-2005, 06:56 PM
Manny is underrated defensively...

Matsui is just a defensive liability, he sucks out there.


C'mon man, you can't be serious. Matsui isn't Willie Mays but he's way better then Manny in leftfield!

FaninPatsyLand
11-18-2005, 06:59 PM
C'mon man, you can't be serious. Matsui isn't Willie Mays but he's way better then Manny in leftfield!

Manny isn't as bad as the media makes him out to be... and Matsui just sucks.

dob72
11-19-2005, 12:24 AM
Here's some Friday Hot Stove News:

All from rotoworld.com:

-A person who spoke with Carl Pavano late in the 2005 season said Pavano was "miserable" with the Yankees and that he would like the team to try to trade him this winter.

lol thats what he gets

Ray Finkle
11-19-2005, 01:20 PM
From rotoworld:

-According to the Palm Beach Post, the Marlins are close to a trade that would send Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell to the Rangers for Hank Blalock and a pitching prospect.

Why? :confused: The Marlins have Cabrerra who's much better at 3rd then the outfield and Beckett although always has blisters and on the DL he's still very young and very good.

MikeO
11-19-2005, 01:57 PM
From rotoworld:

-According to the Palm Beach Post, the Marlins are close to a trade that would send Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell to the Rangers for Hank Blalock and a pitching prospect.

Why? :confused: The Marlins have Cabrerra who's much better at 3rd then the outfield and Beckett although always has blisters and on the DL he's still very young and very good.

Because the Marlins are cheap assessss who should be shut down. NEW STADIUM???? LOL. They will lose Burnett and then go and trade Delgado, Pierre, and Beckett. MLB should remove 2 teams and just shut them down. The Marlins should be one of them. I have never seen a team go from "big market" to "small market" and switch back and forth overnight as often as they do.

Becket while he did have a great 2003 WS and pretty much won that championship on his own......isn't a top pitcher in MLB. He has only won more than 10 games in a season ONCE in his career. And he has never won more than 15 games in a season in his career.

Just like D-Train. They are working on a 1-year deal with him right now. So, after next season he will be gone too. Why give him a 1-year deal. Either you think he sucks (which Im guessing they don't) or you don't want to spend any money and pay him to keep him around.

Ray Finkle
11-19-2005, 03:22 PM
Because the Marlins are cheap assessss who should be shut down. NEW STADIUM???? LOL. They will lose Burnett and then go and trade Delgado, Pierre, and Beckett. MLB should remove 2 teams and just shut them down. The Marlins should be one of them. I have never seen a team go from "big market" to "small market" and switch back and forth overnight as often as they do.

Becket while he did have a great 2003 WS and pretty much won that championship on his own......isn't a top pitcher in MLB. He has only won more than 10 games in a season ONCE in his career. And he has never won more than 15 games in a season in his career.

Just like D-Train. They are working on a 1-year deal with him right now. So, after next season he will be gone too. Why give him a 1-year deal. Either you think he sucks (which Im guessing they don't) or you don't want to spend any money and pay him to keep him around.

Well according to you (I'm not saying your right or wrong) Pierre is overrated and is declining so why not trade him while he at least has some value? Losing Pierre should be no big deal, also rumors in various papers say Pierre might go to either the White Sox or Cubs for players. If he goes to ChiSox then the Marlins would get Aaron Roward and Damaso Marte (which would be a good move in my opinion for the Marlins).

Trading away Beckett doesn't make much sense to me, however the Marlins would get Hank Blalock, a 24 year old proven hitter and also one or two pitching prospects from Texas (Thomas Diamond and John Danks who are ranked very highly by baseball experts). The main reason for the trade would be to get rid of Mike Lowell's awful contract, giving them money to sign players like Miguel Cabrerra and Willis long term. Trading Beckett is strange to me however he's also hurt and maybe the Marlins think getting two pitching prospects and a very good young player in the deal is worth it.

As for the Marlins being shut down, why? Because you don't like the way they operate? That's a very very ignorant statement, sounds like you still have sour grapes from 2003. Since 1997 the Marlins have won 2 championships, the only team in baseball who have won more in that time period has been the Yankees. In fact no team since the Marlins first came into the league in 1992 or 93 I believe has won more than 2 championships, again besides the Yankees. The Marlins must be doing something right (I don't want to hear how they bought a championship in 1997 either because you could say that about a lot of teams since 1997). If baseball removes two teams they should be KC and Tampa Bay (but that's a whole other arguement). There are a bunch of reasons why the Marlin's new stadium isn't getting off the ground and a big reason has to do with the Miami Dolphin owner. I honestly don't know all the details but I'm sure someone like RWhitney who knows the situation will be more than happy to share it.

RWhitney014
11-19-2005, 03:56 PM
Well according to you (I'm not saying your right or wrong) Pierre is overrated and is declining so why not trade him while he at least has some value? Losing Pierre should be no big deal, also rumors in various papers say Pierre might go to either the White Sox or Cubs for players. If he goes to ChiSox then the Marlins would get Aaron Roward and Damaso Marte (which would be a good move in my opinion for the Marlins).

Trading away Beckett doesn't make much sense to me, however the Marlins would get Hank Blalock, a 24 year old proven hitter and also one or two pitching prospects from Texas (Thomas Diamond and John Danks who are ranked very highly by baseball experts). The main reason for the trade would be to get rid of Mike Lowell's awful contract, giving them money to sign players like Miguel Cabrerra and Willis long term. Trading Beckett is strange to me however he's also hurt and maybe the Marlins think getting two pitching prospects and a very good young player in the deal is worth it.

As for the Marlins being shut down, why? Because you don't like the way they operate? That's a very very ignorant statement, sounds like you still have sour grapes from 2003. Since 1997 the Marlins have won 2 championships, the only team in baseball who have won more in that time period has been the Yankees. In fact no team since the Marlins first came into the league in 1992 or 93 I believe has won more than 2 championships, again besides the Yankees. The Marlins must be doing something right (I don't want to hear how they bought a championship in 1997 either because you could say that about a lot of teams since 1997). If baseball removes two teams they should be KC and Tampa Bay (but that's a whole other arguement). There are a bunch of reasons why the Marlin's new stadium isn't getting off the ground and a big reason has to do with the Miami Dolphin owner. I honestly don't know all the details but I'm sure someone like RWhitney who knows the situation will be more than happy to share it.

Well, the problem with the stadium is multifaceted. Broward County built the National Car Rental-Office Depot-Bank Atlantic Center and got screwed by a bad team and a better concert option in the American Airlines Arena, so they're gunshy about building a park. Miami-Dade has pledged the money, as has the city of Miami, but the state is refusing to budget the last few million for whatever reasons. The chain of hurricanes also has people putting different (and admittedly light-years more important) priorities on construction, and while the idea of a stadium-cum-large hurricane shelter idea has been floated, most politicians are seeing right through that as a ploy. That was suggested by the mayor of Weston, a Broward town that has no available land. What it comes down to, personnel-wise, is that the Marlins are so desperate to trade Lowell's contract that they are apparently willing to package Beckett with him. The thing that separates this from 1998, of course, is that they're asking for legit players back, whether it's Blalock and Diamond/Danks or Hanley Ramirez and Jon Lester/Anibal Sanchez from Boston, as ESPN has reported as possible.

And as far as being classless goes, throw out any personnel decisions before 2002, when Loria and Beinfest took over. In 2002, they traded Floyd and Dempster to get Encarnacion and Pavano in return, along with some other smaller-name players, Mike Mordecai included. The next season, as we know, they improbably won a World Series. That didn't draw fans. So they had to trade Derrek Lee but did their best to field a competitive team in 2004, which they did, until hurricane postponements forced them to play 30 games in the final 27 days of the season, including losing a home game to the Cubs (an entire Cubs series in Florida was postponed, so a doubleheader was made up on a mutual off day and the third game was played in Chicago), and a double-header with the Expos in Chicago at the Cell as "home" games. They simply got tired. In 2005, Loria pushed again, signing Lo Duca to a long-term deal and bringing in Delgado. Unfortunately, that team didn't win, either, and now Loria understandably might want to cut his losses. It hurts, no doubt, but classless? It's business sense. And despite the fact that I don't want them to trade the whole team away, if Pierre and Lowell are going to stink, like a lot of people think, and Beckett is always hurt, which is the common thought around baseball, why not try to do what Billy Beane did when he traded Mulder and Hudson and make a run for it that very year. We're a pitching-rich organization. We have 3 rookie starters that could all be in the rotation in 2006 if need be (Jason Vargas, Scott Olsen, Josh Johnson, whom all pitched in the majors to some degree in 2005), as well as even more starters still in the minors (Nic Ungs threw a no-hitter in AA and was named the Olympic squad; Trevor Hutchinson would have been in the majors last year if he hadn't undergone TJ surgery in late 2004). Loria has proven that he is willing to spend to win, but he has also proven that he is a smart enough baseball man to know when to spend and when not to. He made an also-ran relevant for three years, and if he and Beinfest play their cards right, they have an opportunity to not miss a beat.

But I still don't want them to trade Beckett or Delgado if there's any way for them to compete without dealing either one. That's the fan in me. I'd like to build around a Beckett-Willis top two and a Hermida-Cabrera-Delgado heart of the order. Either way, I'm not giving up on this team.

Oh, and they want Burnett gone. In retrospect, they should have traded him, but he's a choker who has never won a big game and whined like a baby when he was as responsible for Florida missing the playoffs as anyone else. And Willis can't be a FA until 2008, so he's not going to be gone next year. They will eventually sign him long-term.

FinsNYanksFan13
11-19-2005, 04:08 PM
The real problem is that a lot of South Florida fans are fair-weather (not finger pointing at anyone on this board so don't get your panty's in a bunch). When team's are really good they even have trouble selling out arena's or stadiums, so when teams are bad they get basically 0 attendence (making a generalization, its not really 0). Every team in Florida is basically new (except for the Dolphins), everyone of these franchises were formed in the 90's so people haven't had a chance to pass on teams like they do in NY, Chicago, ect. I don't think South Florida is a bad sports area I just think that people haven't had enough years to form bonds with their teams, bonds that are past from generation to generation. The Marlins need a new stadium though in the worst way and the future of that organization in South Florida may very well rest on whether they get one or not. As long as they continue to play in the Dolphins stadium you can expect a ton of orange seats empty unless it's a playoff game, which is the only time everyone gets up for their teams there (unless their dedicated fans which many are). Plus everyone's forgetting it's Florida, who wants to spend a night in an arena or watching a Marlins games when there's so many things to do outside enjoying the weather!

MikeO
11-19-2005, 04:43 PM
The real problem is that a lot of South Florida fans are fair-weather (not finger pointing at anyone on this board so don't get your panty's in a bunch). When team's are really good they even have trouble selling out arena's or stadiums, so when teams are bad they get basically 0 attendence (making a generalization, its not really 0). Every team in Florida is basically new (except for the Dolphins), everyone of these franchises were formed in the 90's so people haven't had a chance to pass on teams like they do in NY, Chicago, ect. I don't think South Florida is a bad sports area I just think that people haven't had enough years to form bonds with their teams, bonds that are past from generation to generation. The Marlins need a new stadium though in the worst way and the future of that organization in South Florida may very well rest on whether they get one or not. As long as they continue to play in the Dolphins stadium you can expect a ton of orange seats empty unless it's a playoff game, which is the only time everyone gets up for their teams there (unless their dedicated fans which many are). Plus everyone's forgetting it's Florida, who wants to spend a night in an arena or watching a Marlins games when there's so many things to do outside enjoying the weather!

Within 5 years the Marlins will be playing in Las Vegas or some other city if the Vegas thing falls through.

Girardi did an interview on WFAN after he got the Marlins gig saying that part of his decision making process was whether or not he wants to go through a team moving cities in the middle of his first managers job in MLB. It's gonna happen as long as the Marlins DON'T get a new stadium which it looks like they won't.

Ray Finkle
11-19-2005, 07:01 PM
According to ESPN, the Red Sox are after Beckett too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2229919

MikeO
11-19-2005, 10:25 PM
According to ESPN, the Red Sox are after Beckett too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2229919

Beckett, Miller, Clement.............now there are 3 guys who put the fear of god into nobody!

Throw in an overweight Schilling and 5 knickle-shuffle Wakefield and OUCH!

If Boston is gonna part with their prize prospect they should get a better player than Beckett.

FaninPatsyLand
11-20-2005, 12:43 AM
Beckett, Miller, Clement.............now there are 3 guys who put the fear of god into nobody!

Throw in an overweight Schilling and 5 knickle-shuffle Wakefield and OUCH!

This coming from a fan of a team who is running Mussina, Pavano and Wright out there.... :lol:

Hypocrisy at its finest folks!

MikeO
11-20-2005, 12:58 AM
This coming from a fan of a team who is running Mussina, Pavano and Wright out there.... :lol:

Hypocrisy at its finest folks!

Once again, second city mentality. When have I proped up the Yanks pitching staff? You take a post that has NOTHING to do with the Yanks and drag them into it. Have i defended their pitching staff? NO. I have said they have a great pitching staff? NO. Yet, because you can't defend a point, you deflect into a whole different subject.

P.S.....since you want to go there. I would take Randy and Wang over everyone except a "healthy" Schilling on Boston's staff.

FaninPatsyLand
11-20-2005, 01:00 AM
Once again, second city mentality. When have I proped up the Yanks pitching staff? You take a post that has NOTHING to do with the Yanks and drag them into it. Have i defended their pitching staff? NO. I have said they have a great pitching staff? NO. Yet, because you can't defend a point, you deflect into a whole different subject.

Blah, blah, blah, blah..

Second city mentality? That's fine, redirect it to a subject that is safe for you. Your team sucks, and the pitching staff is putrid.

YOU should be the last person on this board putting anyone's staff down.

MikeO
11-20-2005, 01:04 AM
Blah, blah, blah, blah..

Second city mentality? That's fine, redirect it to a subject that is safe for you. Your team sucks, and the pitching staff is putrid.

YOU should be the last person on this board putting anyone's staff down.

My team sucks.......lol. Won the division and at least won a playoff game unlike getting SWEPT in Round 1. lol, yeah ok.

FaninPatsyLand
11-20-2005, 01:07 AM
My team sucks.......lol. Won the division and at least won a playoff game unlike getting SWEPT in Round 1. lol, yeah ok.

Yeah, spin it off like you actually won something meaningful. Your overpriced, underachievers got OWNED in Anaheim.

MikeO
11-20-2005, 01:15 AM
Yeah, spin it off like you actually won something meaningful. Your overpriced, underachievers got OWNED in Anaheim.

lol, can't get over the fact you blew the division.

Tell me again how being home for pretty much the whole month of August and that "easy 2nd half schedule" was going to create a cake walk to winning the AL East. :rofl3: :rofl3:

:0wned: Or are we just going to forget that you ever said that for months on end. :rofl3:

FaninPatsyLand
11-20-2005, 01:20 AM
lol, can't get over the fact you blew the division.

Tell me again how being home for pretty much the whole month of August and that "easy 2nd half schedule" was going to create a cake walk to winning the AL East. :rofl3: :rofl3:

:0wned: Or are we just going to forget that you ever said that for months on end. :rofl3:

Why can't I play it off like you do about Dontrelle Willis being an "average pitcher at best"? OR how the METS have the BEST rotation in Baseball! You wanna play this game? I think not.. run along.

I'm already over the fact that we blew the division. I'm not sure you are over the fact that you pulled the greatest choke in sports history a year ago. Man let it go...

How did you own me? I gotta disagree there. You use that thing way too much for inappropriate reasons, I think someone has a man crush on that little red guy holding up that sign.

P.S. Take it easy on the smilies, is this a contest to see how many you can fit in one sentence? And yup, the Yankees still suck.

MikeO
11-20-2005, 01:22 AM
I think someone has a man crush on that little red guy holding up that sign.

.

You aren't even creative enough to come up with your own material. Sad, oh so sad

FaninPatsyLand
11-20-2005, 01:23 AM
You aren't even creative enough to come up with your own material. Sad, oh so sad

What's the matter Mike? Don't like that medicine you dish out to everyone on this board?

MikeO
11-20-2005, 01:58 AM
What's the matter Mike? Don't like that medicine you dish out to everyone on this board?

Im not the one here always crying like a *****, we save that for you. If your gonna rip on me, at least be creative and use your own material. Don't be ripping off my stuff. That's just lame. :shakeno:

FaninPatsyLand
11-20-2005, 02:03 AM
Im not the one here always crying like a *****, we save that for you. If your gonna rip on me, at least be creative and use your own material. Don't be ripping off my stuff. That's just lame. :shakeno:

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, who's crying now Mike?

I'm out of this pissing contest.

RWhitney014
11-20-2005, 02:09 AM
Beckett has proven he's a big game pitcher. Care to remember Game 6 of the 2003 World Series? How about Game 5 of the 2003 NLCS? Or Game 7, when he pitched four innings of relief on two days' rest. The guy almost always wins in September and October, and I, for one, am shocked that the Marlins could be so desperate to rid themselves of Lowell's contract that they'd put Beckett on the line. Just makes no sense.

Ray Finkle
11-20-2005, 02:08 PM
I don't know why Wade Miller gets ripped here. He pitched the whole year hurt, but if he's healthy he's a very good pitcher. He's 29 years old and has a career record of 62 and 43 with an ERA of 3.98, pitching for some bad Houston teams. Not only that but he's making less than 2 million dollars.

Hell he's better then Clement, Arroyo, Wang and Pavano or who ever else people just mentioned. People laugh because he was average this year but a healthy Schilling and Miller in the Red Sox rotation last year I bet it would have had a different outcome. The guy has great stuff and if anyone has seen a healthy Miller play for Houston they'd know.

Ray Finkle
11-20-2005, 02:19 PM
Sunday's Hot Shove Report:

A lot of news per rotoworld:

-"The Yankees reportedly asked the Mariners about Ichiro Suzuki, but were told he's not available.
If the Mariners have a change of heart, Ichiro is one player the Yankees might part with both Robinson Cano and Chien-Ming Wang to get. Newsday's Jon Heyman says they had talks with the Rangers about Alfonso Soriano and the Marlins about Juan Pierre, but wouldn't give up Cano or Wang for either. Heyman also reports that Jose Mesa was uninterested after being contacted by the Yankees and that GM Brian Cashman is competely against a possible Milton Bradley acquisiton."

-"Jim Thome indicated in an interview with the Philadelphia Inquirer that he would be willing to accept a trade to the Indians and probably the White Sox."

-"According to the Boston Globe, the Red Sox have told David Wells that they intend to move him, likely to the Padres in a deal that could bring Dave Roberts and a pitcher to Boston."

-"The Red Sox are in the process of scheduled a meeting with free agent A.J. Burnett.
It could take place within the next few days. If Josh Beckett is going to Texas, Burnett could again be Boston's primary target to upgrade the pitching staff. Should the team add a top starter, then Jonathan Papelbon would probably open the season in the pen. An alternative would be to sign B.J. Ryan and use Papelbon as a starter."

-According to the Palm Beach Post, Florida's front office has been telling teams that, except for Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera, everyone on the Marlins is available. The team's payroll may drop from $65 million to $40 million.
It's like eight years ago, but without the championship. The Marlins are believed to be talking with the Orioles, Mets and Yankees about Delgado. Juan Pierre, Paul Lo Duca, Jose Castillo and Guillermo Mota could follow Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell, not to mention the club's free agents, out of town.

-The Marlins and Mets have reportedly been discussing a Luis Castillo deal for the last two weeks.
The Mets tried to get Castillo when he was a free agent two years ago. The second baseman is owed $5 million in 2006 and there's a $5.75 million club option for 2007 with a $500,000 buyout. It's safe to assume the Marlins are asking for pitching in return. They might also want a middle infielder, either Anderson Hernandez or Jeff Keppinger."

-"If acquired by the Marlins, Hank Blalock could be moved on to another team, the Palm Beach Post reports.
Blalock is owed $13.7 million over the next three years, and the Marlins would still prefer to put Miguel Cabrera at third base. Unlike the Dallas Morning News, the Post doesn't believe the Beckett deal has been agreed to yet, saying that the Rangers may move Adrian Gonzalez for a pitcher to send to the Marlins instead of John Danks. But it does appear that the trade will happen."

There you go with the "news"

Ray Finkle
11-21-2005, 01:11 PM
Monday's news (per rotoworld.com):

-The New York Daily News believes the Mets have talked to the Marlins about Paul Lo Duca as well as Luis Castillo.
Both will be available if the Marlins decide to go with a $40 million payroll. Writers Adam Rubin and Bill Madden also believe that Carlos Delgado, if traded, is more likely to go to the Orioles than the Mets.

-According to the Seattle Times, the Mariners will announce the signing of Kenji Jojima this week, possibly as soon as today.
It's expected to be a two-year deal with an option. The agreement will make Yorvit Torrealba expendable, which could lead to trade talks with the Rockies, Diamondbacks and any other team looking for a cheap regular catcher.

-A deal still isn't done, but the Rangers have reportedly agreed to include either John Danks or Thomas Diamond along with Hank Blalock in order to get Josh Beckett from the Marlins.
Mike Lowell would also be included, of course. Apparently, the Marlins are also strongly considering Boston's offer, which likely includes Hanley Ramirez and either Anibal Sanchez or Jon Lester. Other clubs, such as Detroit, may also still be in the running.

There you go....

NJFINSFAN1
11-21-2005, 01:30 PM
Monday's news (per rotoworld.com):

-The New York Daily News believes the Mets have talked to the Marlins about Paul Lo Duca as well as Luis Castillo.
Both will be available if the Marlins decide to go with a $40 million payroll. Writers Adam Rubin and Bill Madden also believe that Carlos Delgado, if traded, is more likely to go to the Orioles than the Mets.

The Marlins want from what I hear, Anderson Hernandez. I don't think I do that.

phunwin
11-21-2005, 05:02 PM
Beckett has proven he's a big game pitcher. Care to remember Game 6 of the 2003 World Series? How about Game 5 of the 2003 NLCS? Or Game 7, when he pitched four innings of relief on two days' rest. The guy almost always wins in September and October, and I, for one, am shocked that the Marlins could be so desperate to rid themselves of Lowell's contract that they'd put Beckett on the line. Just makes no sense.

Beckett and Lowell for Blalock would be an awful deal for the Marlins. I know Lowell's contract is burdensome, but he's a much better player than he showed last year.

phunwin
11-21-2005, 05:07 PM
The Marlins want from what I hear, Anderson Hernandez. I don't think I do that.

For Castillo? I'd probably do that. He's just 30 and gets on base a ton. His speed is fading, but so what? We need more guys in the lineup who can get on base, and Castillo is on base about 38% of the time. His defense is still plenty good enough, too.

As an added note, Hernandez is no great shakes as a prospect. His batting stats are pretty ordinary and good-field, no-hit second basemen are a dime a dozen.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/anderson-hernandez.shtml

RWhitney014
11-21-2005, 05:37 PM
Castillo won't be traded. That guy is great. But the Mets want him because he has something like a 38 game hitting streak in Shea, and is a .400+ career hitter there.

FinsNYanksFan13
11-22-2005, 08:12 AM
The Firesale is Florida in underway!

Section126
11-22-2005, 11:40 AM
The Firesale is Florida in underway!


Sadly....they are retooling with young players that will kick the Yankees azz in the World Series in about 5 years.....and by then...the Yankees would have have become the Atlanta Braves of the American League.... :lol:

Ray Finkle
11-22-2005, 11:55 PM
Bad news for Red Sox fans, according to David Ortiz Manny Ramirez won't be back with the Red Sox next year:


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2233656

MikeO
11-23-2005, 09:03 AM
Bad news for Red Sox fans, according to David Ortiz Manny Ramirez won't be back with the Red Sox next year:


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2233656

It took Ortiz to say it for it finally to sink in with some you guys I think.

MikeO
11-23-2005, 09:04 AM
Sadly....they are retooling with young players that will kick the Yankees azz in the World Series in about 5 years.....and by then...the Yankees would have have become the Atlanta Braves of the American League.... :lol:

The Yanks won 4 championships in 5 years. The Braves have won 1 in a decade++++. How are we the Braves?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

dob72
11-23-2005, 09:31 AM
The Yanks won 4 championships in 5 years. The Braves have won 1 in a decade++++. How are we the Braves?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
yeah u cant compare the yanks payroll to the braves the braves got almost there whole team from there fram club they got free agents thru the years too but really stayed on top cuz of good trades and there farm

MikeO
11-23-2005, 10:12 AM
yeah u cant compare the yanks payroll to the braves the braves got almost there whole team from there fram club they got free agents thru the years too but really stayed on top cuz of good trades and there farm

And the Yanks didn't stay on top because of their farm (Rivera, Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Pettite..etc) And good trades (O'Neil, Tino, Knoblauch, Clemens, A-Rod ...etc)

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!

Ray Finkle
11-23-2005, 02:27 PM
It took Ortiz to say it for it finally to sink in with some you guys I think.

I'll believe it when I see it. You have no idea how many reports and times since 2001 that Manny wanted to leave go etc etc. This is old old news. It won't sink in until the Red Sox trade him.

I think its more possible now that Manny's best friend said this, however I won't bank on it either. The Red Sox aren't going to trade Manny just to trade him they want something good in return for him.

MikeO
12-03-2005, 11:19 AM
Youlkis and Arroyo for Sean Casey is the rumor out there currently.

Soriano for Manny is the other new rumor. The Sox would move Soriano to LF then according to the Boston Globe.

Ray Finkle
12-03-2005, 01:36 PM
David Wells and Mirabelli to SD for Mark Loretta, Dave Roberts and Otsuka is also popping up.

The Red Sox are certainly making some noise this off season with trade rumors.

Ray Finkle
12-06-2005, 01:43 PM
Per rotoworld.com:

A source told the New York Daily News that David Wells would likely become a Dodger, not a Padre, today.
USA Today's Bob Nightengale reported that the Red Sox could then trade catcher Doug Mirabelli to the Padres for Mark Loretta.


I wonder who the Red Sox will get from the Dodgers. Gagne would be a nice fit in the pen ;) But seriously names being thrown around going to the Sox are Edwin Jackson, Choi, J.D. Drew, Jeff Kent and Derek Lowe.

I'm also happy that the Sox are going to trade Mirabelli instead of Shoppach. I think Shoppach has more of an upside right now than Doug. Don't get me wrong I think Doug is one of the best, if not the best, back up catcher in baseball however he's getting older and he'll never put up numbers like he did in 2004. It's time to give Shoppach more of a chance. After all how hard is it to get good young catchers? Shoppach has shown he has power in the minors (when he makes contract).

I really don't have an opinion on Loretta. I think he's an upgrade over Tony Graffinano however I thought Alex Cora was going to hold down 2nd base until Dustin Pedroia was ready in May.

NJFINSFAN1
12-06-2005, 01:55 PM
Per rotoworld.com:

A source told the New York Daily News that David Wells would likely become a Dodger, not a Padre, today.
USA Today's Bob Nightengale reported that the Red Sox could then trade catcher Doug Mirabelli to the Padres for Mark Loretta.

I wonder who the Red Sox will get from the Dodgers. Gagne would be a nice fit in the pen ;)

I'm also happy that the Sox are going to trade Mirabelli instead of Shoppach. I think Shoppach has more of an upside right now than Doug. Don't get me wrong I think Doug is one of the best, if not the best, back up catcher in baseball however he's getting older and he'll never put up numbers like he did in 2004. It's time to give Shoppach more of a chance. After all how hard is it to get good young catchers? Shoppach has shown he has power in the minors (when he makes contract).

I really don't have an opinion on Loretta. I think he's an upgrade over Tony Graffinano however I thought Alex Cora was going to hold down 2nd base until Dustin Pedroia was ready in May.

That's funny, they just said on the Radio it looks like wells is going to the Giants.

Ray Finkle
12-06-2005, 01:56 PM
That's funny, they just said on the Radio it looks like wells is going to the Giants.

Welcome to Hot Stove Baseball! :lol:

Anyway I wonder who the Sox would get from the Giants for Wells.

NJFINSFAN1
12-06-2005, 02:00 PM
Welcome to Hot Stove Baseball! :lol:

Anyway I wonder who the Sox would get from the Giants for Wells.

They just said the Giants are showing the most interest in him

UCFinfan86
12-06-2005, 02:12 PM
before Loretta got hurt he was arguably a top 5 2B

phunwin
12-06-2005, 02:35 PM
Youlkis and Arroyo for Sean Casey is the rumor out there currently.

The Red Sox can't possibly be that dumb. Sean Casey? The guy who hit 9 home runs despite playing in the most hitter-friendly park in baseball, and who makes $8 million a year for his stunning lack of power? THAT Sean Casey?!?


Soriano for Manny is the other new rumor. The Sox would move Soriano to LF then according to the Boston Globe.

I do not understand the point of moving Soriano. Granted, he's not exactly Bill Mazeroski with the glove, but he's competent enough, and much of his value comes from the fact that 2B is almost always a very weak offensive position.

NJFINSFAN1
12-06-2005, 04:54 PM
Big rumor now is a three way trade for Manny, with the Sox's, Arizona and the Angels with Manny ending up in LA/A.

Ray Finkle
12-06-2005, 05:13 PM
ESPN's Peter Gammons thinks the A's are in the lead for David Wells, with Justin Duchscherer possibly going back to the Red Sox.

I'd love that move for sure.

Please no Soriano with Boston. If the fans thought that Nomar was bad swinging at the first pitch every time and Bellhorn striking out then the fans will kill Soriano. Plus I'd rather send David Wells out on 2nd then him. Plus his hitting at home vs. the road are bad.

QB2RonnieTD23
12-06-2005, 06:11 PM
The Cubs have reportedly contacted the Phillies about Bobby Abreu, and in return the Phillies answered they were interested in Mark Prior. Again Pat Gillick wants that solid starter, may even consider trading Pat Burrell to Oakland for Barry Zito.

Ray Finkle
12-06-2005, 07:50 PM
Reports say that Grady Little will be the next manager of the LA Dodger. Gotta wonder if the Dodgers make the playoffs and the game is on the line in the 8th if he'll stick with Derek Lowe or go to the bullpen for Eric Gagne.

ChambersWI
12-06-2005, 09:51 PM
Sean Casey is going home to Pittsburgh for pitcher Dave Williams.

Ray Finkle
12-06-2005, 09:56 PM
John Olreud is retiring.

LaTroy Hawkins has been traded to Baltimore for Steve Kline.

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 12:16 AM
More news:

ESPN's Peter Gammons is reporting that Kris Benson is on his way to the Royals for Jeremy Affeldt and Mike MacDougal.

Also:

The Dodgers are close to acquiring Alfonso Soriano for reliever Jonathon Broxton, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports.

And:

Talks are "percolating" tonight on the proposed three-team deal sending Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, Andy Marte to Tampa Bay and Julio Lugo to Boston, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. (Apparently if that deal goes through the Red Sox will try to get Orlando Cabrerra from LAA to play SS and have Lugo play 2nd.)

Wow for all three rumors.

FIN-IN-RI
12-07-2005, 12:22 AM
Pedroia would go to SS and Soriano/Graffanino to 2nd..

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 12:31 AM
Pedroia would go to SS and Soriano/Graffanino to 2nd..

Please no Soriano in a Red Sox uniform.

FaninPatsyLand
12-07-2005, 12:37 AM
More news:

ESPN's Peter Gammons is reporting that Kris Benson is on his way to the Royals for Jeremy Affeldt and Mike MacDougal.

Also:

The Dodgers are close to acquiring Alfonso Soriano for reliever Jonathon Broxton, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports.

And:

Talks are "percolating" tonight on the proposed three-team deal sending Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, Andy Marte to Tampa Bay and Julio Lugo to Boston, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. (Apparently if that deal goes through the Red Sox will try to get Orlando Cabrerra from LAA to play SS and have Lugo play 2nd.)

Wow for all three rumors.


Get that PIECE of TRASH out of Boston. I'd be absolutely ecstatic if that deal went through. Lugo has had 2 straight seasons that have been statistically better than Renteria. I'll pay the rest of his salary to boot...

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 12:40 AM
Get that PIECE of TRASH out of Boston. I'd be absolutely ecstatic if that deal went through. Lugo has had 2 straight seasons that have been statistically better than Renteria. I'll pay the rest of his salary to boot...

I've been waiting to see what you thought of this rumor. I must admit, I'm not shocked at your response. :lol:

I think the 2006 Red Sox are going to be a very very different team. Also it's kind of funny that Clement, Wells and Renteria are all rumored in deals. Makes you wonder what the Red Sox F.O. really thought of Theo's work.

FaninPatsyLand
12-07-2005, 12:44 AM
I've been waiting to see what you thought of this rumor. I must admit, I'm not shocked at your response. :lol:

I think the 2006 Red Sox are going to be a very very different team. Also it's kind of funny that Clement, Wells and Renteria are all rumored in deals. Makes you wonder what the Red Sox F.O. really thought of Theo's work.

I agree. Although the 1st base situation must be addressed. While I like the versatility that Youkilis offers us as a utility player, I can't give him the full time 1st base duties.

And I don't want to be stuck with another year of 1st base by committee. It's not exactly a premium position, they need to bring someone in..

FIN-IN-RI
12-07-2005, 01:15 AM
I think Youkalis will get packaged in a deal with Wells or Clement.

Lowell is going to be a fine 3rd baseman for us. Mueller will be gone.. the hole at 1st is glaring.

unifiedtheory
12-07-2005, 01:38 AM
ESPN's Peter Gammons thinks the A's are in the lead for David Wells, with Justin Duchscherer possibly going back to the Red Sox.

I'd love that move for sure.

Please no Soriano with Boston. If the fans thought that Nomar was bad swinging at the first pitch every time and Bellhorn striking out then the fans will kill Soriano. Plus I'd rather send David Wells out on 2nd then him. Plus his hitting at home vs. the road are bad.

That deal makes NO SENSE for the A's.

Nappy Roots
12-07-2005, 01:56 AM
Talks are "percolating" tonight on the proposed three-team deal sending Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, Andy Marte to Tampa Bay and Julio Lugo to Boston, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. (Apparently if that deal goes through the Red Sox will try to get Orlando Cabrerra from LAA to play SS and have Lugo play 2nd.)



woah. as a Devil Ray fan, im extremely torn. We have BJ Upton at SS waiting in the wings, an i would LOVE to get Marte cause we have a whole @ 3rd right now, and adding a great young 3B would put our young players the best in baseball. But. . . . . . . . .


I love Lugo. He has great range at SS, his throws scare me sometimes, but he gets to a ton of balls. Hes a good lead off hitter for us, hes scrappy as hell, fights during his ABs. He stole a lot of bases for us this year, while hitting in the clutch alot. Hes also one of the few players that showed he cared through out the entire year. Hes really underrated and would be really missed by all Devil Ray fans.


i dunno what to do?!?!?! :confused2

Jaj
12-07-2005, 02:32 AM
woah. as a Devil Ray fan, im extremely torn. We have BJ Upton at SS waiting in the wings, an i would LOVE to get Marte cause we have a whole @ 3rd right now, and adding a great young 3B would put our young players the best in baseball. But. . . . . . . . .


I love Lugo. He has great range at SS, his throws scare me sometimes, but he gets to a ton of balls. Hes a good lead off hitter for us, hes scrappy as hell, fights during his ABs. He stole a lot of bases for us this year, while hitting in the clutch alot. Hes also one of the few players that showed he cared through out the entire year. Hes really underrated and would be really missed by all Devil Ray fans.


i dunno what to do?!?!?! :confused2

Do it so the Angels can trade Cabrera for Clement as we're hearing...

UCFinfan86
12-07-2005, 07:33 AM
Sportscenter just reported that Juan Pierre was traded to the Cubs for Sergie Mitre and 2 Prospects

dominizzo
12-07-2005, 07:35 AM
woah. as a Devil Ray fan, im extremely torn. We have BJ Upton at SS waiting in the wings, an i would LOVE to get Marte cause we have a whole @ 3rd right now, and adding a great young 3B would put our young players the best in baseball. But. . . . . . . . .


I love Lugo. He has great range at SS, his throws scare me sometimes, but he gets to a ton of balls. Hes a good lead off hitter for us, hes scrappy as hell, fights during his ABs. He stole a lot of bases for us this year, while hitting in the clutch alot. Hes also one of the few players that showed he cared through out the entire year. Hes really underrated and would be really missed by all Devil Ray fans.


i dunno what to do?!?!?! :confused2

Devil Rays are the laughing stock of the MLB poor u:(

UCFinfan86
12-07-2005, 07:36 AM
Talks are "percolating" tonight on the proposed three-team deal sending Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, Andy Marte to Tampa Bay and Julio Lugo to Boston, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. (Apparently if that deal goes through the Red Sox will try to get Orlando Cabrerra from LAA to play SS and have Lugo play 2nd.)

Wow for all three rumors.

i just heard that on sportscenter also

Also they just said that Milton Bradley is close to going to the cubs, but now with them getting Pierre, i guess not

NJFINSFAN1
12-07-2005, 08:57 AM
Two Met Rumors, Benson to the Royals for either Reliever or both (Affledt & MacDougal).

And the Mets are making a run at Zito.

phunwin
12-07-2005, 09:16 AM
The Benson to KC rumor is all over the NY papers today (though the Daily News, I think, said KC is saying McDougal OR Affeldt, plus a prospect). MacDougal was a heck of a good reliever last year, and should continue to be if he stays healthy. Affeldt sucked last year, but has good stuff, so maybe he can be turned into an effective reliever. Plus, this would save about $6 million in salary this year, I believe.

Now we need to move either Zambrano or Trax and put Heilman in the rotation. He's too good to be wasted as a reliever. That would give a rotation of Martinez, Glavine, Zambrano/Trax, Heilman and Seo.

NJFINSFAN1
12-07-2005, 09:18 AM
The Benson to KC rumor is all over the NY papers today (though the Daily News, I think, said KC is saying McDougal OR Affeldt, plus a prospect). MacDougal was a heck of a good reliever last year, and should continue to be if he stays healthy. Affeldt sucked last year, but has good stuff, so maybe he can be turned into an effective reliever. Plus, this would save about $6 million in salary this year, I believe.

Now we need to move either Zambrano or Trax and put Heilman in the rotation. He's too good to be wasted as a reliever. That would give a rotation of Martinez, Glavine, Zambrano/Trax, Heilman and Seo.

The Bergen record said the same thing, but on ESPN they said the Mets want both as of now. I agree with Heilman!

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 11:31 AM
That deal makes NO SENSE for the A's.

Apparently Billy Beane had that leaked out to help out Boston to try and get more from the Padres.

Also the Renteria to Braves deal is a bit different now. It's being reported its Renteria for Andy Marte straight up. The Devil Rays don't want Marte. Which in my opinion is a better deal for the Red Sox. Marte is a top 3rd base prospect and although the Sox have Lowell there, I could see either being moved to 1st base.

The Sox can then try to get Lugo in a seperate deal or use Alex Cora at SS or sign Alex Gonzalez or trade for OC.

GreenMonster
12-07-2005, 01:16 PM
Are the Braves gonna take all of Edgar's salary. Seems to me like they should have just paid Furcal 3 and 40million and kept Marte...

UCFinfan86
12-07-2005, 01:28 PM
Are the Braves gonna take all of Edgar's salary. Seems to me like they should have just paid Furcal 3 and 40million and kept Marte...

no i heard the sox payin a HUGE amount of the contract

FIN-IN-RI
12-07-2005, 01:33 PM
Are the Braves gonna take all of Edgar's salary. Seems to me like they should have just paid Furcal 3 and 40million and kept Marte...

No, and that is the sticking point right now, or so I hear.

FIN-IN-RI
12-07-2005, 01:43 PM
5 years, 70 million for Johnny Damon on the table.. Team unknown.

phunwin
12-07-2005, 01:55 PM
5 years, 70 million for Johnny Damon on the table.. Team unknown.

Not that I disbelieve you, but would you be even a little surprised if that team was the "Scott Boras Rumor Mill All-Stars"?

NJFINSFAN1
12-07-2005, 01:56 PM
5 years, 70 million for Johnny Damon on the table.. Team unknown.

I bet its the Yanks! Mets are stealing the back pages, George must be going nuts!

FaninPatsyLand
12-07-2005, 01:58 PM
I bet its the Yanks! Mets are stealing the back pages, George must be going nuts!

New York can have him if that is indeed true.

I wouldn't even consider giving Damon a contract like that... He'll be Bernie Williams v2.0 by the 3rd year of that deal.

phunwin
12-07-2005, 01:59 PM
If it is for real and not Scott Boras trying to get things moving, I would be surprised if it isn't the Yanks. That's an insane contract for Damon and I think the Red Sox are too smart to pony up that much cash.

FaninPatsyLand
12-07-2005, 02:00 PM
Are the Braves gonna take all of Edgar's salary. Seems to me like they should have just paid Furcal 3 and 40million and kept Marte...

If I'm the Red Sox, I'm doing whatever it takes to get him out of town. If it includes eating a huge chunk of that salary then so be it. Theo ****** up, it's time we face that mistake of a contract and move on.

FIN-IN-RI
12-07-2005, 02:14 PM
Not that I disbelieve you, but would you be even a little surprised if that team was the "Scott Boras Rumor Mill All-Stars"?

I would not be surprised at all.. I just heard it on the radio seconds before i posted.

FIN-IN-RI
12-07-2005, 02:14 PM
If I'm the Red Sox, I'm doing whatever it takes to get him out of town. If it includes eating a huge chunk of that salary then so be it. Theo ****** up, it's time we face that mistake of a contract and move on.

Notice the amount of Theo's players are in the deals being mentioned.

FaninPatsyLand
12-07-2005, 02:20 PM
Notice the amount of Theo's players are in the deals being mentioned.

It quite interesting. He made two terrible signings in Renteria and Clement last offseason. If we can gain any value for either of those stiffs, then management has done a hell of a job.

It makes you wonder about Theo's departure. Was the ownership really satisfied with the job he did as GM? With all these rumors about his guys getting shipped out of town, I think you have to believe they weren't.

Jaj
12-07-2005, 03:03 PM
It quite interesting. He made two terrible signings in Renteria and Clement last offseason. If we can gain any value for either of those stiffs, then management has done a hell of a job.

It makes you wonder about Theo's departure. Was the ownership really satisfied with the job he did as GM? With all these rumors about his guys getting shipped out of town, I think you have to believe they weren't.

They were both good signings, they just tanked under the pressure of Boston's fanbase.

NJFINSFAN1
12-07-2005, 03:18 PM
Theo got the Sox's a ring did he not?

phunwin
12-07-2005, 03:21 PM
They were both good signings, they just tanked under the pressure of Boston's fanbase.

Clement was having an excellent season until stopping a baseball with his face. He never quite recovered from that. Not really his fault, and certainly not Epstein's.

Renteria, on the other hand, was someone that the sabermetrically inclined Epstein should have avoided. The guy posted a 728 OPS, despite playing in a lineup where he saw all the strikes he wanted, in a free agent walk year. I mean, it's good to be critical of players who are big hits in their walk year, but what does it say about someone who plays like crap? And yet he still gave him $10M a year. I knew that was a bad signing at the time. To be fair to Theo, though, I don't think anyone figured Renteria's defense would fall off a cliff like it did.

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 03:30 PM
Clement was having an excellent season until stopping a baseball with his face. He never quite recovered from that. Not really his fault, and certainly not Epstein's.

Clement was having problems before he got hit in the head. Although I'm sure that didn't help I doubt Clement would have done any better if he never got hit.

FaninPatsyLand
12-07-2005, 04:10 PM
Clement was having an excellent season until stopping a baseball with his face. He never quite recovered from that. Not really his fault, and certainly not Epstein's.

The guy throughout his entire career always has a terrible second half. He was so bad in 2004 that the Cubs needed to take him out of their rotation.

And wouldn't you know it... once the All-Star break came around, he was dreadful. The guy has historically been a terrible pitcher during the stretch run, and that didn't change this year, regardless if he was struck with a line drive.

Nappy Roots
12-07-2005, 05:03 PM
Devil Rays are the laughing stock of the MLB poor u:(


Glad u know nothing about Major League Baseball.

MikeO
12-07-2005, 05:43 PM
5 years, 70 million for Johnny Damon on the table.. Team unknown.

Bet it is Detroit.

FIN-IN-RI
12-07-2005, 06:32 PM
Theo got the Sox's a ring did he not?

You're correct! He had help from Duquette though!

Duquette formed the base in which Theo perfected (for a year).

FIN-IN-RI
12-07-2005, 06:34 PM
They were both good signings, they just tanked under the pressure of Boston's fanbase.

Maybe Renteria but not Clement. Clement had his typical year last year.. Up the first half, down the second.

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 06:38 PM
Done deal pending physicals. Doug Mirabelli for Mark Loretta. Good move in my opinion if Loretta can gain his 2002/2003/2004 form.

I said this back in early October that the Red Sox should try to trade Mirabelli this off season and have Shoppach be the back up due to Shoppach having more value and Mirabelli will be very tradable. Looks like I was right and I'm glad that Mirabelli went instead of Shoppach (at.least for now).

FaninPatsyLand
12-07-2005, 06:58 PM
Done deal pending physicals. Doug Mirabelli for Mark Loretta. Good move in my opinion if Loretta can gain his 2002/2003/2004 form.


I liked Mirabelli, but Loretta is an excellent short term solution at 2nd base until Pedroia is ready for the big leagues.

Pretty solid move...

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 07:11 PM
I liked Mirabelli, but Loretta is an excellent short term solution at 2nd base until Pedroia is ready for the big leagues.

Pretty solid move...

I agree. Certainly an upgrade over Tony Graffinano. And it didn't cost the Sox much. Granted Mirabelli is one of the best back ups in the game but he's old, 34 I believe and you have to wonder when his knees are going to give on him. Plus his bat was very bad last year and he'll never be as good as he was in 2004.

Also Shoppach has experience catching knuckleballers, Wakefield included.

phunwin
12-07-2005, 07:58 PM
Loretta for Mirabelli? Steal for the Sox. Loretta is a very productive, extremely underrated 2B (if, admittedly, an injury-prone one). Mirabelli is either a subpar starting catcher or a good backup. Since the Padres are letting Ramon Hernandez walk, it's the former.

Detroit offering that for Damon? I'm not sure I see it, but it would certainly fit their profile after that outrageous contract they gave Magglio Ordonez and his uninsurable back last season. (Or was it his knee? I don't remember, but he had problems with both...which just goes to prove my point, I guess.)

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 08:04 PM
Trevor Hoffman is staying with SD.

phunwin
12-07-2005, 08:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2251623

He took 2 years and $13.5M. He must have turned down quite a bit more than that from Cleveland. Geez, give the Padres credit, they had him read like a book. Didn't cave in after he stormed out of that meeting, didn't panic when EVERYONE said Hoffman was out of SD, they just added a little more to their offer, but no more years, and it was done. Impressive work.

ChambersWI
12-07-2005, 08:13 PM
Geez both Giles and Hoffman turned more money down to stay with the Padres.

They must be really comfortable, or they realize that the West sucks and they could easily make a post season run. (To give Hoffman credit, he's the face of the Padres and should finish up his career there. Outside of his rookie year, that's where he's pitched)

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 08:14 PM
Looks like Boston and Altanta are still talking about a Renteria for Marte deal now that Tampa Bay dropped out of it because they wanted more prospects for Lugo.

I've been doing some research on Andy Marte. He was a top 10 prospect in all of baseball last year. He has also been compared to Mike Schmidt, Eddie Matthews, Scott Rolen, David Wright and (faninpatsyland you'll love this) Miguel Cabrerra.

He has raw power and has a very strong arm (scouts said he had the strongest arm in all of the minors). He struggled when the Braves called him up this year so maybe that's why the Braves are looking to dump him for Edgar or the Braves could be panicking for losing Furcal.

Either way it just goes to show you that the Tampa Bay front office is too busy smoking grass or watching day time soaps to not give the Red Sox Lugo for Marte. But hey I'm glad Tampa is demanding more. ;)

Make the trade now and hold on to this kid!

wazzy
12-07-2005, 08:15 PM
Toronto is looking better and better with those signings. Burnet and Ryan I think we have a pitching staff now.

FaninPatsyLand
12-07-2005, 08:16 PM
Looks like Boston and Altanta are still talking about a Renteria for Marte deal now that Tampa Bay dropped out of it because they wanted more prospects for Lugo.

I've been doing some research on Andy Marte. He was a top 10 prospect in all of baseball last year. He has also been compared to Mike Schmidt, Eddie Matthews, Scott Rolen, David Wright and (faninpatsyland you'll love this) Miguel Cabrerra.

For Renteria? Where do I sign? :lol:

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 08:24 PM
Toronto is looking better and better with those signings. Burnet and Ryan I think we have a pitching staff now.

Toronto scares me. I think they're going to be good. If they get a big bat or two the East is going to be very tough between the Sox, Yankees and Jays.

RWhitney014
12-07-2005, 09:06 PM
For Renteria? Where do I sign? :lol:

I think those are lofty comparisons. He's supposed to be good, but he performed horribly when called up to the majors. Horribly overmatched. Cabrera hit a walk-off homer in his first game. He'll be good. Then again, someone killed the deal, so it doesn't matter. It might still happen but just be between TB and ATL, Lugo for Marte. Which is a dumb deal for Atlanta. With Chipper at third, they don't need Marte, but they could do better than Lugo.

Ray Finkle
12-07-2005, 09:50 PM
I think those are lofty comparisons. He's supposed to be good, but he performed horribly when called up to the majors. Horribly overmatched. Cabrera hit a walk-off homer in his first game. He'll be good. Then again, someone killed the deal, so it doesn't matter. It might still happen but just be between TB and ATL, Lugo for Marte. Which is a dumb deal for Atlanta. With Chipper at third, they don't need Marte, but they could do better than Lugo.

I agree about the comparisons and that he was over matched. Of course if he's on the Red Sox he'll have a lot of protection. He'll see better pitches and more fast balls for sure.

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 01:20 AM
per rotoworld.com:

Braves sources told MLB.com that money is the only thing standing between Edgar Renteria and Andy Marte changing teams.
The deal remains close. According to MLB.com, the Braves could include another prospect to get the Red Sox to kick in more money.

I like the idea of another Brave prospect in the deal if money has to be exchanged. Hopefully it's only a million or 2 per year. Anyway there's talk now that either Lowell, Youkilis or Marte could be swapped to Minnesota for bullpen help.

Also Wells is almost guranteed to go to SD for either Scott Linebrink or Ostunka. According to Gammons if the Sox want Linebrink they might have to take Woody Williams. Linebrink is a better bet but I'm not sure I'd want Woody or his contract. I like how the Sox have some trading chips to make the pen stronger. Something that was very very weak last year.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-08-2005, 01:42 AM
The Yankees offered Bernie arbitration. Very nice move and one obviously made by the Boss. Love the Boss or hate him, he's loyal to his boys, just ask Lou Pinella. Lou Pinella went to the Boss at the end of his career looking for another contract and told the Boss he thought he had 2 good years left in him so what did the Boss do....Gave Lou a 3 year contract. As I said he may not be loyal to a lot of the Yankees young prospects and to people who don't get the job done here but the one's who come here and make a difference always get loyalty from George. I would love to have Bernie as DH/ 4th outfielder (for when Sheffield needs a rest)!

FinsNYanksFan13
12-08-2005, 03:10 AM
Boston just traded Mirasmelli for Mark Loretta (Padres)!

Cool Calm Mike
12-08-2005, 03:42 AM
Can somebody explain arbitration?

ChambersWI
12-08-2005, 08:00 AM
Blue Jays got Overbay for Bush, one of their OFs, and their 2nd best pitching prospect(Jackson).

Good trade both ways. Overbay gets on base, and will definatly help up North (Plus they got to keep Hillenbrand), and The Brewers get some more pitching and get to play Fielder.

phunwin
12-08-2005, 08:39 AM
per rotoworld.com:

Braves sources told MLB.com that money is the only thing standing between Edgar Renteria and Andy Marte changing teams.
The deal remains close. According to MLB.com, the Braves could include another prospect to get the Red Sox to kick in more money.


If the Sox get Marte for Renteria, without eating Edgar's entire contract, they're on their way to a heck of a good offseason. Theo Who? ;)

phunwin
12-08-2005, 08:42 AM
Can somebody explain arbitration?

The player and the team both submit a number to the arbitrator that they believe the player is worth, then argue back and forth for awhile, and the arbitrator picks one of the two.

So for example, if the Mets go to arbitration with David Wright in three years (let's assume that's when he's eligible), and the Mets say that Wright is worth $8 million, and Wright says he's worth $12 million. The two sides would argue back and forth, with the Mets trying to show that Wright isn't as good as he thinks (this has often led to some very bad blood between teams and players, since players seldom like being told how much they suck), and Wright trying to show that he's the next Mike Schmidt. The arbitrator listens to the arguments and decides which figure more closely represents the player's market value.

Does that help?

UCFinfan86
12-08-2005, 10:20 AM
The player and the team both submit a number to the arbitrator that they believe the player is worth, then argue back and forth for awhile, and the arbitrator picks one of the two.

So for example, if the Mets go to arbitration with David Wright in three years (let's assume that's when he's eligible), and the Mets say that Wright is worth $8 million, and Wright says he's worth $12 million. The two sides would argue back and forth, with the Mets trying to show that Wright isn't as good as he thinks (this has often led to some very bad blood between teams and players, since players seldom like being told how much they suck), and Wright trying to show that he's the next Mike Schmidt. The arbitrator listens to the arguments and decides which figure more closely represents the player's market value.

Does that help?

adding to that, alot of times a player and a team will meet on a contract in the middle to avoid arbitration, for example if when they are arguing before the arbitrator makes a decision the mets might get scared wright will win the 12 million and then offer him a deal of 10 million to save some money, and alot of times a player will take the new deal

PeaTearGriffin
12-08-2005, 12:46 PM
well it finally happened renteria to the braves.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252297

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 01:01 PM
well it finally happened renteria to the braves.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252297

FaninPatsLand gets his wish..

FaninPatsyLand
12-08-2005, 01:19 PM
FaninPatsLand gets his wish..

:dance: Hell yes!

Kudos to management for getting rid of that stiff and landing Marte in return. I'm so happy right now..

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 01:35 PM
:dance: Hell yes!

Kudos to management for getting rid of that stiff and landing Marte in return. I'm so happy right now..

Marte is a stud.. Did we ever figure out if we will be paying anymore of his salary. If we aren't the Braves have just made a very foolish move..

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 01:37 PM
If the Sox get Marte for Renteria, without eating Edgar's entire contract, they're on their way to a heck of a good offseason. Theo Who? ;)

The Sox have to pay 8 to 11 million dollars to dump Renteria. In my opinion that's fine. I like all the reports I'm hearing about Marte. One of my good friends whose a Braves fan is already on his 5th beer and thinking about jumping off of a bridge. He's totally pissed that the deal went though. He loved Marte and thought he was going to be very good. He has also seen Marte play a couple of games in the minors too.

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 01:39 PM
:dance: Hell yes!

Kudos to management for getting rid of that stiff and landing Marte in return. I'm so happy right now..

What an off season so far for a team that doesn't have a GM and a month ago writers were saying how Boston has no direction and no focus. Hopefully they continue to get younger.

(And hopefully they don't do something stupid like trade Marte straight up for Lugo or include a prospect).

FaninPatsyLand
12-08-2005, 01:42 PM
We are going to be an absolute FORCE next year.

What an amazing offseason so far..

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 01:48 PM
Living in Atlanta I have heard and seen plenty of Marte.. He struggled a bit in the majors, not getting to play everyday, but was doing well at triple A.

UCFinfan86
12-08-2005, 01:53 PM
we have no SS right now though, With Ramirez and Renteria gone, idk what FAs are out there really. No good ones, maybe Alex Gonzalez? Get ready to hear all the Nomar back in bostn rumors as well

phunwin
12-08-2005, 01:55 PM
Renteria was due $30M over the next 3, right? For the Braves to eat 2/3 of that and give back a bag of chips would have been a good deal for Boston, let alone sending Marte.

phunwin
12-08-2005, 01:56 PM
we have no SS right now though, With Ramirez and Renteria gone, idk what FAs are out there really. No good ones, maybe Alex Gonzalez? Get ready to hear all the Nomar back in bostn rumors as well

They'll probably get Lugo, one way or another.

Also, the Mets have the readily available Kaz Matsui around. Any takers? ;)

FaninPatsyLand
12-08-2005, 01:56 PM
we have no SS right now though, With Ramirez and Renteria gone, idk what FAs are out there really. No good ones, maybe Alex Gonzalez? Get ready to hear all the Nomar back in bostn rumors as well

We're definitely not missing anything defensively. He led the majors in errors last year. The guy was terrible in every facet of the game, we will not miss him at all..

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 01:58 PM
we have no SS right now though, With Ramirez and Renteria gone, idk what FAs are out there really. No good ones, maybe Alex Gonzalez? Get ready to hear all the Nomar back in bostn rumors as well

I'll take Cora or Gonzalez or even Cesar Istzuis (spelling?) from LAD in a trade. I don't care if we get one of those guys and they hit .230. Getting rid of Renteria for a stud top 10 prospect in Andy Marte, you have to do it. The Sox are getting better and younger. I love it.

This move is GREAT for the future, maybe not in 2006. But I'll deal with it for a year and not biitch once if that means keeping Marte and the rest of our good pitching prospects like Hansen, PApelbon and Lester.

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 01:59 PM
Renteria was due $30M over the next 3, right? For the Braves to eat 2/3 of that and give back a bag of chips would have been a good deal for Boston, let alone sending Marte.

I find it interesting that the Braves would rather have Edgar and save 20mil, then have Furcal and Marte for the next 3 years. They have become cheap and the run of division titles is over. I am know many Braves fans are pissed..

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 02:01 PM
I'll take Cora or Gonzalez or even Cesar Istzuis (spelling?) from LAD in a trade. I don't care if we get one of those guys and they hit .230. Getting rid of Renteria for a stud top 10 prospect in Andy Marte, you have to do it. The Sox are getting better and younger. I love it.

This move is GREAT for the future, maybe not in 2006. But I'll deal with it for a year and not biitch once if that means keeping Marte and the rest of our good pitching prospects like Hansen, PApelbon and Lester.

Baseball America had Marte ranked 9th last year and Hanley 10th for what its worth.. Marte has shown more in the minors than Hanley ever had leading A ball in RBI in 2002..

phunwin
12-08-2005, 02:02 PM
I find it interesting that the Braves would rather have Edgar and save 20mil, then have Furcal and Marte for the next 3 years. They have become cheap and the run of division titles is over. I am know many Braves fans are pissed..

I've heard the "Braves are going down" song before, so I'll believe it when I see it. But, things certainly don't look good in the ATL, which is fine by me.

ChambersWI
12-08-2005, 02:04 PM
apparantly Marte will be shipped down to Tampa for Lugo (according to Gammons)

Nappy Roots
12-08-2005, 02:06 PM
apparantly Marte will be shipped down to Tampa for Lugo (according to Gammons)



Gammons never knows what hes talking about. Most his stuff is his opinion. I hope hes right though.

FaninPatsyLand
12-08-2005, 02:07 PM
apparantly Marte will be shipped down to Tampa for Lugo (according to Gammons)

I've read differently. Apparently we are gonna hold onto Marte and pick up a cheap SS via Free Agency.

I really hope we don't trade Marte..

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 02:07 PM
Gammons never knows what hes talking about. Most his stuff is his opinion. I hope hes right though.

I totally agree with what you said about Gammons. He just likes to speculate on things and never has the facts.

I hope he's wrong though. I'd rather keep Marte and put Cora at SS then trade him for Lugo for 1 year.

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 02:09 PM
I've heard the "Braves are going down" song before, so I'll believe it when I see it. But, things certainly don't look good in the ATL, which is fine by me.

I have never said it, but they have never been cheap like this also. They hardly ever traded there prospects in the past and have been moving plenty of goods ones lately. I have a great respect for the Braves, but they have made there far share of shaky moves the last 2 years. I love the lineup the Braves will trot out the next couple of years, but they are getting pretty thin top line starters, and the bullpen needs a couple of major upgrades. I am torn whether Smotlz should move back to the pen, with the troubles there, and the amount of decent starters they have..

Nappy Roots
12-08-2005, 02:11 PM
I totally agree with what you said about Gammons. He just likes to speculate on things and never has the facts.

I hope he's wrong though. I'd rather keep Marte and put Cora at SS then trade him for Lugo for 1 year.


if i was u i would to. I wanted Marte. I dont think we are going to get him now, but im pissed we were cut out of the deal

phunwin
12-08-2005, 02:18 PM
I have never said it, but they have never been cheap like this also. They hardly ever traded there prospects in the past and have been moving plenty of goods ones lately. I have a great respect for the Braves, but they have made there far share of shaky moves the last 2 years. I love the lineup the Braves will trot out the next couple of years, but they are getting pretty thin top line starters, and the bullpen needs a couple of major upgrades. I am torn whether Smotlz should move back to the pen, with the troubles there, and the amount of decent starters they have..

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you have. But I'd wager that for the last four years, there's been a "chic" pick to win the East based on the "Braves are going down...and this time we mean it" theory. As far as I'm concerned, they're like Rasputin. They absolutely will not die, no matter what happens to them.

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 02:19 PM
I like Lugo but 1 year of Lugo < 5 more years of a cheaper Marte...

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 02:19 PM
if i was u i would to. I wanted Marte. I dont think we are going to get him now, but im pissed we were cut out of the deal

Apparently the Rays wanted Marte and at least another prospect for Lugo. I don't understand that one. I really think Tampa should change their F.O. again they're killing their teams chances of getting good young players.

phunwin
12-08-2005, 02:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252475

Orioles signed Ramon Hernandez for 4 years and $27.25 million.

DAMMIT!! That's a MUCH better move than trading for Paul LoDuca. Why didn't the Mets do that instead?

Nappy Roots
12-08-2005, 02:21 PM
Apparently the Rays wanted Marte and at least another prospect for Lugo. I don't understand that one. I really think Tampa should change their F.O. again they're killing their teams chances of getting good young players.


again? we have a brand new FO :rofl3:

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 02:23 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you have. But I'd wager that for the last four years, there's been a "chic" pick to win the East based on the "Braves are going down...and this time we mean it" theory. As far as I'm concerned, they're like Rasputin. They absolutely will not die, no matter what happens to them.

I didn't mean it like that sorry, I living in Atlanta have seen why this franchise has been great every year. I haven't seen a reason to question them in the past few years but a couple of these moves I have seen recently make me think they may be content with rebuilding instead of continued excellence. They do have a very solid farm system, but is seems to me they could have saved Marte for some quality pitching if they were gonna move him and not a player like Renteria who we are actively giving away..

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 02:26 PM
again? we have a brand new FO :rofl3:

I know you guys just got a new FO however apparently the Braves offered the Rays Marte and Estrada before the Red Sox got involved and the Rays said no they wanted more.

I honestly don't understand what they expect to get for Lugo. He's a nice play however he'll only be with the Rays for a year, when he becomes a FA and will probably sign else where for more money. Take last year for example they were going to get Lastings Milledge, Anibal Sanchez, Hanley Ramirez and Aaron Heliman for Danny Baez and Audrey Huff but they said no. I just don't understand what they're looking to get. Maybe they overvalue their players.

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 02:26 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252475

Orioles signed Ramon Hernandez for 4 years and $27.25 million.

DAMMIT!! That's a MUCH better move than trading for Paul LoDuca. Why didn't the Mets do that instead?

How much is left on LoDuca's deal.. I like Hernandez, I guess the O's have given up on the often injured Lopez...

Nappy Roots
12-08-2005, 02:27 PM
i dont know if u guys seen it but Braves traded Danny Kolb back to the Brewers for Wes Obermueller.

would be funny if Kolb has a great year.

Nappy Roots
12-08-2005, 02:27 PM
How much is left on LoDuca's deal.. I like Hernandez, I guess the O's have given up on the often injured Lopez...



i would guess they move him to DH and for him to catch a few games here and there to keep him healthy.

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 02:29 PM
i would guess they move him to DH and for him to catch a few games here and there to keep him healthy.

Agreed, I guess they finally figured out this guy will never play if he tries to catch 140 games a year.. He is still a decent hitter..

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 02:30 PM
i dont know if u guys seen it but Braves traded Danny Kolb back to the Brewers for Wes Obermueller.

would be funny if Kolb has a great year.

The Braves would have taken back a box of news balls for this guy.. He took so much heat on the radio and in the papers it makes Boston look like we loved Renteria..

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 02:31 PM
i dont know if u guys seen it but Braves traded Danny Kolb back to the Brewers for Wes Obermueller.

would be funny if Kolb has a great year.

Good point. Everyone says that the Braves GM is one of the best in baseball but he's made some bad moves recently including the Kolb deals and now the Renteria one.

Nappy Roots
12-08-2005, 02:31 PM
I know you guys just got a new FO however apparently the Braves offered the Rays Marte and Estrada before the Red Sox got involved and the Rays said no they wanted more.

I honestly don't understand what they expect to get for Lugo. He's a nice play however he'll only be with the Rays for a year, when he becomes a FA and will probably sign else where for more money. Take last year for example they were going to get Lastings Milledge, Anibal Sanchez, Hanley Ramirez and Aaron Heliman for Danny Baez and Audrey Huff but they said no. I just don't understand what they're looking to get. Maybe they overvalue their players.


ive never read anything that said we were offered Marte and Estrada for Lugo.

we were offered Estrada by himself, i doubt they would throw Marte into the deal like that.

and on the other deal, we are stacked full of OFs as it is, we have BJ Upton & Lugo at SS, guess we could of moved Ramirez to 3rd, and Heilman is garbage.

for a closer that produces, and the best hitter in the history of our franchise?

GreenMonster
12-08-2005, 02:34 PM
I am surprised that Ramon H. gets a huge contract, and Estrada gets moved for 2 decent minor league releivers. Seems like Shurholtz could have gotten more Estrada..

Ray Finkle
12-08-2005, 02:40 PM
ive never read anything that said we were offered Marte and Estrada for Lugo.

we were offered Estrada by himself, i doubt they would throw Marte into the deal like that.

and on the other deal, we are stacked full of OFs as it is, we have BJ Upton & Lugo at SS, guess we could of moved Ramirez to 3rd, and Heilman is garbage.

for a closer that produces, and the best hitter in the history of our franchise?

From rotoworld.com:

Dec. 6
News: The Devil Rays appear very likely to trade Lugo away before the winter meetings end, even if it's grudgingly so, the Tampa Tribune reports. Atlanta appears to be the team with the most interest in Lugo and apparently is offering third baseman Andy Marte and a catcher, either Johnny Estrada or Brian McCann.

If your Tampa you have to make that deal. They're getting 4 young good players who could all turn into superstars. And yes you trade your closer and best hitter from them because with Baez and Huff the Rays have been in last place. With the 4 kids they're getting and with the kids they have in their farm they could be a force in the future years. Plus Baez and Huff will leave once their contracts come up away. Tampa can't afford them.

Nappy Roots
12-08-2005, 02:48 PM
From rotoworld.com:

Dec. 6
News: The Devil Rays appear very likely to trade Lugo away before the winter meetings end, even if it's grudgingly so, the Tampa Tribune reports. Atlanta appears to be the team with the most interest in Lugo and apparently is offering third baseman Andy Marte and a catcher, either Johnny Estrada or Brian McCann.

i dont believe that.



If your Tampa you have to make that deal. They're getting 4 young good players who could all turn into superstars. And yes you trade your closer and best hitter from them because with Baez and Huff the Rays have been in last place. With the 4 kids they're getting and with the kids they have in their farm they could be a force in the future years. Plus Baez and Huff will leave once their contracts come up away. Tampa can't afford them.


Aaron Heilman turn into a superstar? hes garbage. and like i said, even if Millege turns into a superstar, where we going to put him?