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Ray Finkle
11-14-2005, 03:01 PM
Alex Rodriguez

Here's the story:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051114&content_id=1267994&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

GreenMonster
11-14-2005, 03:04 PM
Not surprising here, MVP is all about #'s...

NJFINSFAN1
11-14-2005, 03:06 PM
I'm glad nobody voted Ortiz down because he was a DH (by this I mean lower then 1 or 2), it was all 1st or 2nd place votes.

UCFinfan86
11-14-2005, 03:16 PM
man this sucks, Arod shouldnt be MVP, its not just about numbers. Half of arod's stats were when the game was out of reach. Ortiz gets the numbers when they counted.

NorthFloridaFin
11-14-2005, 03:19 PM
I wonder how the NL award will turn out, because Ortiz and Andruw are basically in the same boat. Andruw didn't have to greatest batting average, but he carried that team when they needed him the most.

Section126
11-14-2005, 03:29 PM
Not surprising here, MVP is all about #'s...

Actually it hasn't always been that way....

RWhitney014
11-14-2005, 03:40 PM
I wonder how the NL award will turn out, because Ortiz and Andruw are basically in the same boat. Andruw didn't have to greatest batting average, but he carried that team when they needed him the most.

Pujols should win for a few reasons. First, the Cards were missing Larry Walker and Scott Rolen for most of the season, and Jim Edmonds didn't have a great year. Pujols was the only really big bat in a lineup with Abraham Nunez and So Taguchi and Hector Luna.

Second, I find it tough to give a .265 BA the MVP, no matter what other good/great things he did. .265 is not good. And it's the main stat.

Third, Pujols was robbed the last few years because of Barry Bonds. Finally, Bonds was out of the picture. It's Pujols' turn.

Motion
11-14-2005, 05:31 PM
man this sucks, Arod shouldnt be MVP, its not just about numbers. Half of arod's stats were when the game was out of reach. Ortiz gets the numbers when they counted.

BS

Ortiz doesn't play the field, he doesn't deserve the MVP.

A-Rod was the right choice.

MikeO
11-14-2005, 05:36 PM
man this sucks, Arod shouldnt be MVP, its not just about numbers. Half of arod's stats were when the game was out of reach. Ortiz gets the numbers when they counted.

Ortitz should pick up a glove then

Pagan
11-14-2005, 05:37 PM
The fact that A Rod disappeared in the playoff series against the Angels showed he's no MVP.

What a joke....and I'm a Yankee fan.

NJFINSFAN1
11-14-2005, 06:02 PM
The fact that A Rod disappeared in the playoff series against the Angels showed he's no MVP.

What a joke....and I'm a Yankee fan.

Good for you for being honest!:lol:

MikeO
11-14-2005, 06:17 PM
2 interesting stats....

1) This was the 1st person to win the AL MVP who didn't play for a AL West team since 1999 I believe.

2) Game Winning RBI's this year..........Ortiz 22 ARod 21. That pretty much offset the "CLUTCH" thing that Ortiz had going for him.

MikeO
11-14-2005, 06:17 PM
The fact that A Rod disappeared in the playoff series against the Angels showed he's no MVP.

What a joke....and I'm a Yankee fan.

It's a regular season award genius!:shakeno:

NorthFloridaFin
11-14-2005, 06:20 PM
It's a regular season award genius!:shakeno:

Well, I guess they need to re-name it the Regular Season MVP??

MikeO
11-14-2005, 06:26 PM
Well, I guess they need to re-name it the Regular Season MVP??

Anyone who follows baseball knows its a regular season award.

Ray Finkle
11-14-2005, 06:27 PM
1) This was the 1st person to win the AL MVP who didn't play for a AL West team since 1999 I believe.

First time since 1995 when Mo Vaughn won it playing for the Red Sox.

NorthFloridaFin
11-14-2005, 06:32 PM
Anyone who follows baseball knows its a regular season award.

I do follow baseball, and anyone who watched it can see that Ortiz was more valuable to his team than A-Rod in the regular season. Without A-Rod, the Yanks are still a playoff team. Without Ortiz the Red Sox would have struggled to make the playoffs.

PressCoverage
11-14-2005, 06:33 PM
that's terrific... he can win all the MVPs they want to heap on pretty boy... and he can add a bit more wiggle and hot dog to his home run trots... especially when he hits 3 in blowout wins against teams like the Royals... terrific... really happy for him...

but the A-Rod curse is alive and well... he was an error machine down the stretch and played rather brain-dead against Anaheim... i have serious doubts he'll ever win a title...

Ray Finkle
11-14-2005, 08:07 PM
I do follow baseball, and anyone who watched it can see that Ortiz was more valuable to his team than A-Rod in the regular season. Without A-Rod, the Yanks are still a playoff team. Without Ortiz the Red Sox would have struggled to make the playoffs.

As a Red Sox fan I'm disappointed that Ortiz didn't win, however Arod did put up some good numbers and you can't really argue he didn't deserve it. I do agree that Ortiz was more valuable to his team than Arod.

I'm sure if you ask Ortiz he'd rather have that ring on his finger compared to an MVP award. Anyway congrats Alex, I guess all of those 6 a.m. work outs in the off season paid off.

FaninPatsyLand
11-14-2005, 08:11 PM
2) Game Winning RBI's this year..........Ortiz 22 ARod 21. That pretty much offset the "CLUTCH" thing that Ortiz had going for him.


Anyone here want Arod up over Papi with the game on the line?

...Didn't think so, moving on...

Ray Finkle
11-14-2005, 08:25 PM
I saw this picture and thought it was funny, my apologizes to any Yankee fan this is just in good kidding fun and I bet you guys will get a kick out of it too.


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/11/FG_Arod_MVP-1.jpg (http://www.frankgalasso.com/)


(Boston Dirt Dogs / Frank Galasso, cartoonist (http://www.frankgalasso.com/))

FaninPatsyLand
11-14-2005, 08:27 PM
I saw this picture and thought it was funny, my apologizes to any Yankee fan this is just in good kidding fun and I bet you guys will get a kick out of it too.


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/11/FG_Arod_MVP-1.jpg (http://www.frankgalasso.com/)




(Boston Dirt Dogs / Frank Galasso, cartoonist (http://www.frankgalasso.com/))






:rofl3: That is GREAT!

unifiedtheory
11-14-2005, 09:09 PM
Game Winning RBI's this year..........Ortiz 22 ARod 21. That pretty much offset the "CLUTCH" thing that Ortiz had going for him.


That is a GREAT stat...

...and before anyone says anything I dislike both the Yanks and the Sox. :D

Ray Finkle
11-14-2005, 09:30 PM
That is a GREAT stat...

...and before anyone says anything I dislike both the Yanks and the Sox. :D

That is a good stat however MikeO fails to put in the batting averages of Arod and Ortiz with runners in scoring position in which Ortiz hit 62 points higher (Ortiz hit .352 to Arod's .290), the batting averages of both players in close game situations with runners on (Arod hit .176 to Ortiz's .313).

Read Jayson Stark's article (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2224114). He puts a pretty good case as to why Ortiz should have won. He also breaks down both players numbers when their team won by more then 6 runs (Arod was most productive in those games). It's a very good article and a must read.

FinsNYanksFan13
11-14-2005, 10:00 PM
# 1, that's a great cartoon. Very funny (and I mean that seriously)!

# 2, did anyone listen to A-Rod on Michael Kay today? Aside from Kay kissing A-Rod's a$$ all interview, A-Rod came off as selfish to me. I truly believe this guy worries more about his place in baseball histoy as an individual then he does about his team. I personally don't like A-Rod but I will cheer him because he's a Yankees and I only see the uniform. I truly believe in my heart A-Rod would rather have 5 Mvp's then 5 rings. I think A-Rod is only worried about A-Rod. He came off really wrong today during the interview. If anyone can get a hold of the audio, listen to it. A-Rod is all about A-Rod and after you hear it I think you'll think along the same lines as me. A-Rod is no Jeter, that's for sure!


# 3 I have no problem with A-Rod winning the award. He did save a lot of runs with his glove and should have won the gold glove. With that said though I really could care less he won it and I'd truly feel the same way if Papi won it. There's only one MVP A-Rod can win that will satisfy me...World Series MVP. Other then that I don't care and as much as I hate to say and being that I watched almost as many Sox games as Yankees games (I bought the MLB package where you can watch all the games on MLB.com), Papi should have won the award!

Ray Finkle
11-14-2005, 11:10 PM
# 1, that's a great cartoon. Very funny (and I mean that seriously)!

# 2, did anyone listen to A-Rod on Michael Kay today? Aside from Kay kissing A-Rod's a$$ all interview, A-Rod came off as selfish to me. I truly believe this guy worries more about his place in baseball histoy as an individual then he does about his team. I personally don't like A-Rod but I will cheer him because he's a Yankees and I only see the uniform. I truly believe in my heart A-Rod would rather have 5 Mvp's then 5 rings. I think A-Rod is only worried about A-Rod. He came off really wrong today during the interview. If anyone can get a hold of the audio, listen to it. A-Rod is all about A-Rod and after you hear it I think you'll think along the same lines as me. A-Rod is no Jeter, that's for sure!


# 3 I have no problem with A-Rod winning the award. He did save a lot of runs with his glove and should have won the gold glove. With that said though I really could care less he won it and I'd truly feel the same way if Papi won it. There's only one MVP A-Rod can win that will satisfy me...World Series MVP. Other then that I don't care and as much as I hate to say and being that I watched almost as many Sox games as Yankees games (I bought the MLB package where you can watch all the games on MLB.com), Papi should have won the award!

#1 Thanks for the props for the cartoon, as I said I only meant it as a joke, I didn't want it to take away from Arod's award or Yankee fans celebration (if the fans care).

#2 I find it funny that especially on Mike and the Mad Dog, they'll rip Arod but once he does something good they kiss his butt. Mike and the Mad Dog had been throwing Arod under the bus all 2005 until he had his 3 HR and 10 RBI game, then it was Arod this and Arod that. I do agree with you, I think Arod is more of an individual than a team player. Comparing him to Jeter is a joke. Sure Arod is an overall better player but I'd take Jeter on my team any day over him. Jeter is a leader.

#3 I had no problem with Arod winning the award. I watched just as many Yankee games as Red Sox games and Alex had a hell of a year. I do however feel that Ortiz was more valuable to his team than Arod was to the Yankees.

Oh well how many days until pitchers and catchers report to spring training?

finfansince72
11-15-2005, 01:47 AM
I think the arguement that Ortiz deserves no consideration because he is a DH is pathetic. Im not saying that ARod doesnt deserve it but to just throw everything Ortiz has done for the Sox into the trashcan because he doesnt play the field is just plain ignorant. There has been no more important PLAYER in any league over the last 2 years than Ortiz. Period. The Sox would not have won a title or made the playoffs this year without him. The Yanks would have gone just as far without ARod.

Motion
11-15-2005, 07:47 AM
Without Ortiz the Red Sox would have struggled to make the playoffs.

:shakeno: THEY DID STRUGGLE TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!

MikeO
11-15-2005, 09:54 AM
The Sox would not have won a title or made the playoffs this year without him.

The Red Sox won a title this year? :confused:

nyjunc
11-15-2005, 10:05 AM
I saw this picture and thought it was funny, my apologizes to any Yankee fan this is just in good kidding fun and I bet you guys will get a kick out of it too.


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/11/FG_Arod_MVP-1.jpg (http://www.frankgalasso.com/)


(Boston Dirt Dogs / Frank Galasso, cartoonist (http://www.frankgalasso.com/))


We'll see how far Grape Ape can carry them when manny is gone and they don't pitch to him.

nyjunc
11-15-2005, 10:05 AM
2) Game Winning RBI's this year..........Ortiz 22 ARod 21. That pretty much offset the "CLUTCH" thing that Ortiz had going for him.

To be fair a GW RBI can occur in the 1st inning which isn't exactly clutch.

GreenMonster
11-15-2005, 11:00 AM
CATEGORY ORTIZ (AL RANK) RODRIGUEZ (AL RANK)
Avg. with RISP .352 (7) .290 (46)
RBIs with RISP 94 (4) 77 (8)
Avg. with RISP/2 outs .368 (5) .302 (36)
Go-ahead RBIs 34 (1) 28 (6)
Close situations* .346 (5), 11 HR, 33 RBIs .293 (41), 4 HR, 12 RBIs
Vs. arch-rival .296, 5 HRs, 19 RBIs vs. NY .271, six HRs, 11 RBIs vs. Bos

I will take quality over quantity everytime...

nyjunc
11-15-2005, 11:14 AM
I think plaing a great 3B put ARod over the top, argue all yuo want but he's a complete player which Ortiz is not. I would not have had a problem if Ortiz won and I don't think anyone should have a problem w/ ARod winning it. We all know that's what he's about, he's not about winning and chokes when we need him most. I couldn't care less about him winning it. I was rooting hard for Mariano to win the CY(and he was robbed) but I don't care at all about the MVP.

Ray Finkle
11-15-2005, 11:48 AM
We'll see how far Grape Ape can carry them when manny is gone and they don't pitch to him.

Agreed, no arguement here.

Pagan
11-15-2005, 12:11 PM
It's a regular season award genius!:shakeno:
I know that, Einstein.

I was saying that because he disappeared in the playoffs, it SHOWED he wasn't an MVP. A true MVP plays that way all the time. I didn't say the award was based on the playoffs.

Is that context simple enough for you to understand now, or should I have Bert, Ernie and Elmo come in and spell it out for you?

Maybe next time you can not be a tool, and make your point without the insult. Capiscé? :shakeno:

FaninPatsyLand
11-15-2005, 01:35 PM
Is that context simple enough for you to understand now, or should I have Bert, Ernie and Elmo come in and spell it out for you?

:lol:

FinsNYanksFan13
11-15-2005, 02:42 PM
I'm a Yankees fan but the true standing go like this!

A-Rod - 0 rings
Ortiz- 1 ring

That's all that matters, at least to me!

nyjunc
11-15-2005, 03:14 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

phunwin
11-15-2005, 03:40 PM
I've got a simple question: why does anyone give a damn about the MVP awards in the first place? Haven't we seen enough bogus choices for both the MVP and Cy Young that there's little point in taking them seriously anymore? A year...hell, a week from now, are any Yankee fans seriously going to exercise their bragging rights over the MVP award?

NJFINSFAN1
11-15-2005, 04:04 PM
I know that, Einstein.

I was saying that because he disappeared in the playoffs, it SHOWED he wasn't and MVP. A true MVP plays that way all the time. I didn't say the award was based on the playoffs.

Is that context simple enough for you to understand now, or should I have Bert, Ernie and Elmo come in and spell it out for you?

Maybe next time you can not be a tool, and make your point without the insult. Capiscé? :shakeno:


:lol:

PressCoverage
11-15-2005, 05:42 PM
We'll see how far Grape Ape can carry them when manny is gone and they don't pitch to him.

oh, Manny is gone? you're sure of this? tell us, oh great one, where did you get conclusive evidence that this is a done deal?

i read just the other day that he'll likely be back with the Sox another year , at least... his posturing is nothing new... he's untradeable for any sane GM, given his price and age...

GreenMonster
11-16-2005, 10:34 AM
It's funny how Defense is what seperates the 2 players and in the National League Andrew Jones gets no love for playing the best defensive center field in baseball. Pujols plays a great 1st base, yipppee...

Ray Finkle
11-16-2005, 11:36 AM
It's funny how Defense is what seperates the 2 players and in the National League Andrew Jones gets no love for playing the best defensive center field in baseball. Pujols plays a great 1st base, yipppee...

It's just a bad excuse. Like others have said: did Jose Canceso's defense in the OF help the A's in 1990, or Frank Thomas in 1994, or Barry Bonds the last 3 times he won the award? They have an award for defense and it's a gold glove.

I don't think Arod winning the award is a joke I do however find his $1 million bonus for winning it a joke. The guy is the highest paid player in baseball and one of the top 3 or 4 players in the game, he SHOULD win the MVP award almost every year. Arod also has bonuses for making the All-Star team too. Man Boras is either a great agent or Tom Hicks is just a moron for allowing that in the contract (but I understand why he did it).

flintsilver7
11-16-2005, 12:34 PM
man this sucks, Arod shouldnt be MVP, its not just about numbers. Half of arod's stats were when the game was out of reach. Ortiz gets the numbers when they counted.

Don't look now, but that's actually a complete lie.

http://forums.espn.go.com/espn/thread?forumID=427&start=20&threadID=2677188&sortBy=null

That's a pretty comprehensive look at the numbers breakdown, especially on "blowout wins" and the margin at the time of A-Rod's performance in those games.

flintsilver7
11-16-2005, 12:35 PM
To be fair a GW RBI can occur in the 1st inning which isn't exactly clutch.

Does that make it any less important?

nyjunc
11-16-2005, 02:45 PM
Does that make it any less important?

It's not clutch in the 1st or 2nd inning.

flintsilver7
11-16-2005, 03:39 PM
It's not clutch in the 1st or 2nd inning.

...which is precisely why the term "clutch" is meaningless.

If it needs to be done in the 9th, then it needed to be done earlier in the game as well.

Ray Finkle
11-16-2005, 04:33 PM
...which is precisely why the term "clutch" is meaningless.

Clutch and Arod don't belong in the same sentence, unless of course the sentence is "Arod isn't clutch".

Getting a game winning RBI in the 1st or 2nd inning isn't clutch, clutch is when the game is on the line.

flintsilver7
11-16-2005, 04:49 PM
Clutch and Arod don't belong in the same sentence, unless of course the sentence is "Arod isn't clutch".

Getting a game winning RBI in the 1st or 2nd inning isn't clutch, clutch is when the game is on the line.

You're going to have to explain that. Well, first of all:

http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/playerstats.asp?id=5275
http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/playerstats.asp?id=5909

You'll notice that most "clutch" statistics - listed in the runners and outs section - are more or less identical when you consider something of an actually statistically viable sample size.

Check out the stats. If you bother to calculate the ratios for both of them as far as hits goes - the breakdown of at-bats and the innings - you would see there is really no definition of clutch. Both hit better in innings 1-6; both struck about the same rate; both got on base at about the same rate. It goes on and on. Rodriguez does have proportionately fewer home runs in the late innings; he has a disproportionately higher number of overall extra-base hits in the late innings.

MikeO
11-16-2005, 04:54 PM
so all of ARods GWRBI's came in the 1st and 2nd inning, while all of Ortiz's came in the 8th and 9th....lol you guys crack me up. Seriously.

Ray Finkle
11-16-2005, 06:08 PM
You're going to have to explain that. Well, first of all:

http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/playerstats.asp?id=5275
http://snap.stats.com/premium/sfa/stats/playerstats.asp?id=5909

You'll notice that most "clutch" statistics - listed in the runners and outs section - are more or less identical when you consider something of an actually statistically viable sample size.

Check out the stats. If you bother to calculate the ratios for both of them as far as hits goes - the breakdown of at-bats and the innings - you would see there is really no definition of clutch. Both hit better in innings 1-6; both struck about the same rate; both got on base at about the same rate. It goes on and on. Rodriguez does have proportionately fewer home runs in the late innings; he has a disproportionately higher number of overall extra-base hits in the late innings.

I looked at the two links and yes the numbers are pretty similar however I still don't consider Arod clutch (I'm not sure any Yankee or baseball fan would either). If you'd take Arod up at the plate with the game on the line then more power to you. I'll take my chances with Ortiz though. If you check out Jayson Stark's article he breaks down stats even further.

This isn't taking anything away from Arod because he's a great great ball player however I'd rather have Jeter, Matsui, Bernie, Sheffield, and even Giambi or possibly Cano up with the game on the line before I'd take Arod.

Ray Finkle
11-16-2005, 06:13 PM
so all of ARods GWRBI's came in the 1st and 2nd inning, while all of Ortiz's came in the 8th and 9th....lol you guys crack me up. Seriously.

Who said that? NYJUNC said: "To be fair a GW RBI can occur in the 1st inning which isn't exactly clutch". He nor did anyone else say that all of Arod's game winning RBIs came in the first few innings. Nor did anyone say all Ortiz's came in the last few innings.

What NYJUNC was probably implying is that Ortiz is known for the big dramtic game winning or tying HRs/hits. While Arod has fewer and isn't known for them. That's all. He was also pointing out that the stat you gave it very misleading because GW RBIs could take place in the 1st inning.

flintsilver7
11-17-2005, 12:46 AM
I looked at the two links and yes the numbers are pretty similar however I still don't consider Arod clutch (I'm not sure any Yankee or baseball fan would either). If you'd take Arod up at the plate with the game on the line then more power to you. I'll take my chances with Ortiz though. If you check out Jayson Stark's article he breaks down stats even further.

This isn't taking anything away from Arod because he's a great great ball player however I'd rather have Jeter, Matsui, Bernie, Sheffield, and even Giambi or possibly Cano up with the game on the line before I'd take Arod.

What Stark was doing was dishonest, because the sample size was so ridiculously small. He says that A-Rod batted .176 and Ortiz batted .313 with runners in scoring position in close and late situations. Well, here's the story. A-Rod was 3-17, and Ortiz was 5-16. When you put it like that, it doesn't look like such a huge difference. It should look like what it is: a small sample size. That's about 2.5% of the at-bats. If you - and Stark - want to take 2.5% of the at-bats and marginalize the other 97.5% - where A-Rod outperformed Ortiz in almost all cases - that's fine. Pretend baserunning and defense do not matter.

Stark, for some reason, decided to write an article entirely justifying his vote, which nobody else seemed to see the need to do.

finfansince72
11-17-2005, 01:03 AM
The Red Sox won a title this year? :confused:

Obviously I was talking about last years title. Funny to point out silly gramatical nonsense instead of the point of the post eh? Ortiz led the Sox to a title last year, granted the Yankees choking worse than any team in the history of sports helped, but Ortiz was the force on that team. He carried a team not playing very well to the playoffs this year. Arod has been great for the Yanks but they would have lost in the playoffs last year and this year with or without him. Hes just not the MVP, hes a great player on a decent team. Ortiz has been the most valuable player on any team in baseball the last two years, I dont care whether hes a DH or not. So if he played first base and was terrible at it would that enable him to get more votes? Thats just nonsense. He deserved it, I dont even think it was a big debate. Arod is a glamour, stat-filling player, Ortiz leads his team and comes up big when it counts. Arods poor play all but lost the playoffs this year.

Ray Finkle
11-17-2005, 01:04 AM
Stark, for some reason, decided to write an article entirely justifying his vote, which nobody else seemed to see the need to do.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2005-11-14-o'connor-keepingscore_x.htm

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=112236&format=&page=1

There's are two articles where writers voice their opinions (the 2nd article has a bunch for both Arod, Ortiz and even Vlad). Stark isn't the only one voicing his opinion on the topic.

Again I stress that Arod is a great player had a great year and did deserve the award. HOWEVER there's no stat(s) in the world that would convince me to have him up in a key situation in a game over Ortiz. Arod is anti-clutch. There's no way around it, the guy just isn't good in big spots.

I don't know if you're a Yankee fan or not (I see that you're from VA) but I watch tons of both Red Sox games and Yankee games. I'm a big Red Sox fan, but I'm not worried about Arod when he's up in a big spot. People like Jeter, Sheffield, Bernie and Matsui scare me but not Arod.

nyjunc
11-17-2005, 08:13 AM
...which is precisely why the term "clutch" is meaningless.

If it needs to be done in the 9th, then it needed to be done earlier in the game as well.

Alot of games are close and decided late and the pressure mounts in late game situations just like pressure mounts in postseason and ARod as a Yankee has been a bust as a postseason player and has rarely come throuhg in late inning situations for us.

MikeO
11-17-2005, 08:51 AM
Obviously I was talking about last years title.

But the MVP was for this year.......I'm still confused :confused:

finfansince72
11-17-2005, 07:26 PM
But the MVP was for this year.......I'm still confused :confused:

He was the MVP last year too. Thats the point, hes been the most valuable player in the league for 2 years, its not like he just got hot this year. Sometimes one year wonder players are overlooked, hes not, hes gotten it done 2 years in a row. Arod has been a playoff choker 2 years in a row, he didnt deserve it. He wasnt there when he team needed him, Ortiz was.

Ray Finkle
11-17-2005, 07:39 PM
He was the MVP last year too. Thats the point, hes been the most valuable player in the league for 2 years, its not like he just got hot this year. Sometimes one year wonder players are overlooked, hes not, hes gotten it done 2 years in a row. Arod has been a playoff choker 2 years in a row, he didnt deserve it. He wasnt there when he team needed him, Ortiz was.

Actually you could argue that Ortiz deserved the MVP award in 2002 also. He carried the Sox down the stretch (I believe he had 9 hits that either tied or put the Sox ahead after the 7th inning from August on) and put up big numbers while playing in a limited amount of games (due to Jeremy Giambi starting for the first 2 months of the season- thanks for getting hurt Jeremy so Grady (Forrest) Gump had no choice but to put Ortiz in).

But I guess giving it to a guy who's teams season was over in June was a better pick then giving it to a guy who carried his team into the playoffs.

MikeO
11-17-2005, 08:27 PM
Arod has been a playoff choker 2 years in a row, he didnt deserve it. He wasnt there when he team needed him, Ortiz was.

It's a REGULAR SEASON AWARD!:shakeno:

The MVP is for who had the best regular season in MLB in the American League. Why is this so hard to understand. They are basing it on that critera ONLY!!!!

You say you understand this, but you keep typing this nonsense above which shows you clearly DON'T understand this!

finfansince72
11-17-2005, 11:33 PM
It's a REGULAR SEASON AWARD!:shakeno:

The MVP is for who had the best regular season in MLB in the American League. Why is this so hard to understand. They are basing it on that critera ONLY!!!!

You say you understand this, but you keep typing this nonsense above which shows you clearly DON'T understand this!

so what? even if its just the regular season Ortiz was more clutch and more important. Ortiz is the most valuable player in the league 2 years running.

MikeO
11-18-2005, 10:08 AM
so what? even if its just the regular season Ortiz was more clutch and more important. Ortiz is the most valuable player in the league 2 years running.

the numbers are even almost across the board. And you can't say SO WHAT to it being a regular season award, that is all people are voting on! :shakeno:

And defense is half the game. Ortiz doesn't play it

GreenMonster
11-18-2005, 11:38 AM
the numbers are even almost across the board. And you can't say SO WHAT to it being a regular season award, that is all people are voting on! :shakeno:

And defense is half the game. Ortiz doesn't play it

If defense is half the game please explain to me how the best centerfielder in baseball lost the NL MVP vote...

FaninPatsyLand
11-18-2005, 02:45 PM
If defense is half the game please explain to me how the best centerfielder in baseball lost the NL MVP vote...

Or how Reggie Jackson got his nickname "Mr. October," must have been cause he played a great outfield... :lol:

Every baseball fan knows the truth. Papi is the most valuable player in the league and he doesn't need a meaningless award to justify it...

FinsNYanksFan13
11-18-2005, 06:57 PM
Every baseball fan knows the truth. Papi is the most valuable player in the league and he doesn't need a meaningless award to justify it...



Then why are so many Red Sox fans bitching and moaning about A-Rod winning the award if the award is so meaningless?

FaninPatsyLand
11-18-2005, 07:03 PM
Then why are so many Red Sox fans bitching and moaning about A-Rod winning the award if the award is so meaningless?

I don't know? Why don't you ask them?

Placing the word "Valuable" next to A-rods name is a joke on so many levels, its not worth getting upset over.

nyjunc
11-19-2005, 10:08 AM
If defense is half the game please explain to me how the best centerfielder in baseball lost the NL MVP vote...

Pujols may not be a great defnsive player but he PLAYS D, he's not a DH. If Grape Ape's #s were far and away better than the choker then he would have won it but they had similar #s and ARod plays great D so that pushed him over the top.

Ray Finkle
11-19-2005, 01:12 PM
Pujols may not be a great defnsive player but he PLAYS D, he's not a DH. If Grape Ape's #s were far and away better than the choker then he would have won it but they had similar #s and ARod plays great D so that pushed him over the top.

Yup that's exactly why Arod won. The numbers were too close between the two.