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BAMAPHIN 22
11-30-2005, 11:55 PM
For everyone who says that a liberal arts degree doesn't prepare you for anything, you'll find someone else who claims that it prepares you for everything.

Who's right? Well, both, to some extent.



The one thing that's pretty much certain is that right out of the gate, a liberal arts grad will tend to pull a smaller starting salary than his or her friends who majored in business or a technical field. Here are the numbers for expected starting salaries for various majors, as reported in the National Association of Colleges and Employers Fall 2005 Salary Survey:


Liberal arts/general studies: $32,457
English: $32,237
History: $31,727
Psychology: $29,861




Meanwhile, their former college roommates are living the high life with salaries such as the following, also as reported by the Salary Survey:


Engineering: $49,636
Computer sciences: $49,110
Business: $41,233



Given the evidence, why would anyone in their right mind opt for the liberal arts degree?

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/elearning/?article=liberalarts

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:03 AM
well considering the fact that if you have no degree at all you'll be slated to make 20,000 a year the rest of your life unless you have some sort of trade i would say a liberal art degree is worth having

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:03 AM
Gimme a break.
I'm sure you could find a rift between college grads with brown hair and blonde hair.
Doesn't mean crap.
Try getting a job with a Lib Arts, Psych, History, English or 17th century French Peotry degree and you'll get pretty much the same results.
Unless you're going to grad school, your starting salary is going to be anywhere between 20-30k per year.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:06 AM
Gimme a break.
I'm sure you could find a rift between college grads with brown hair and blonde hair.
Doesn't mean crap.
Try getting a job with a Lib Arts, Psych, History, English or 17th century French Peotry degree and you'll get pretty much the same results.
Unless you're going to grad school, your starting salary is going to be anywhere between 20-30k per year.or unless you get some sort of degree in science, once i get out of school with a B.A. in physics i've got a job waiting for me starting at double of all those other crap fields, it really all depends on what you major in because with a history or english degree all you can do is teach and teachers don't make good money unless they bury themselves in extracurricular activities to make a little extra here and there

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:07 AM
Gimme a break.
I'm sure you could find a rift between college grads with brown hair and blonde hair.
Doesn't mean crap.
Try getting a job with a Lib Arts, Psych, History, English or 17th century French Peotry degree and you'll get pretty much the same results.
Unless you're going to grad school, your starting salary is going to be anywhere between 20-30k per year.

Teachers just starting after college in my area, make 45,000/55,000 starting. That's a 4 year degree.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:08 AM
Teachers just starting after college in my area, make 45,000/55,000 starting. That's a 4 year degree.but what's the cost of living compared to the rest of the country, just because the base salary is there dosen't mean the person will come out any better in the long run

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 12:12 AM
For everyone who says that a liberal arts degree doesn't prepare you for anything, you'll find someone else who claims that it prepares you for everything.

Who's right? Well, both, to some extent.



The one thing that's pretty much certain is that right out of the gate, a liberal arts grad will tend to pull a smaller starting salary than his or her friends who majored in business or a technical field. Here are the numbers for expected starting salaries for various majors, as reported in the National Association of Colleges and Employers Fall 2005 Salary Survey:


Liberal arts/general studies: $32,457
English: $32,237
History: $31,727
Psychology: $29,861




Meanwhile, their former college roommates are living the high life with salaries such as the following, also as reported by the Salary Survey:


Engineering: $49,636
Computer sciences: $49,110
Business: $41,233



Given the evidence, why would anyone in their right mind opt for the liberal arts degree?

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/elearning/?article=liberalarts

There are a couple of reasons I am a History major.

1) I plan on going to graduate school.
2) Despite the extra cash, I prefer not to spend the rest of my life bored. History is something I enjoy and I am willing to take the hit to enjoy my life outside of just weekends.

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:12 AM
but what's the cost of living compared to the rest of the country, just because the base salary is there dosen't mean the person will come out any better in the long run

I live most likely in the highest cost of living area in the States (Bergen County NJ). I'm back in school to get my teachers degree. I have and still am working in Real Estate. But since I went back to school, we are pretty much living on my wife's salary. It's not easy, but we are doing it. We don't live in a hugh house. 3 Br's, 3 baths. We are struggling right now. But once I'm out, we will be fine.

But you have a point.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:14 AM
There are a couple of reasons I am a History major.

1) I plan on going to graduate school.
2) Despite the extra cash, I prefer not to spend the rest of my life bored. History is something I enjoy and I am willing to take the hit to enjoy my life outside of just weekends.what are you going to graduate school to do and what do you plan on doing once you get out of school, because it just seems hard finding something to do other than teach with a degree in history (not trying to demean you or anything it's really just an honest question)

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:16 AM
I live most likely in the highest cost of living area in the States (Bergen County NJ). I'm back in school to get my teachers degree. I have and still am working in Real Estate. But since I went back to school, we are pretty much living on my wife's salary. It's not easy, but we are doing it. We don't live in a hugh house. 3 Br's, 3 baths. We are struggling right now. But once I'm out, we will be fine.

But you have a point.that's cool, i've been thinking about getting my teachers certificate just in case i don't like doing what i'm going to do, i'd love to teach and get a job coaching maybe end up coaching at a CC or small division II school or something like that

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:19 AM
what are you going to graduate school to do and what do you plan on doing once you get out of school, because it just seems hard finding something to do other than teach with a degree in history (not trying to demean you or anything it's really just an honest question)

Just because you graduate with a degree in History, does not mean you are stuck teaching history. You need to think outside the box. You could work as a teacher in elementray, middle or secondary schools, you can become a counslor, you can become an advisor for companys doing work in other countrys. You can work as a TV documentry person, you could write books. I know I'm missing a ton of things.

Quelonio
12-01-2005, 12:21 AM
what are you going to graduate school to do and what do you plan on doing once you get out of school, because it just seems hard finding something to do other than teach with a degree in history (not trying to demean you or anything it's really just an honest question)

Ever heard of research? My mom is a lingüist and my father is an Anthropologist, both of them have made their whole life studying the language and social relationships of the P'hurhepecha Indians in western Mexico. And it has been a good enough living that they can pay NYU right now for me....

There is this general idea that you have to study something in the hard science to make a living, but I have lived among people that studied history, anthropology, linguistics, sociology, philosophy and all of them have a pretty darn good life, and love researching what they are doing. Some of them also teach, most of them basically do research.

They are jobs that are not as glamourosly considered as science, or technician jobs, but they are damn important, and they are damn cool to be in.

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:23 AM
that's cool, i've been thinking about getting my teachers certificate just in case i don't like doing what i'm going to do, i'd love to teach and get a job coaching maybe end up coaching at a CC or small division II school or something like that

That's the main reason I'm doing it. I love to coach and have been doing so for years. I had a boys Travel baseball team make the World Series (AABC not little league) a few years ago and they ended up 4th in the nation. I see some of these coaches in middle school and high school that don't know a thing about the sports they coach. But you need a teachers degree to do it.

So it would be nice for once to be paid to coach. But even if I never get paid, I will always coach, its a love I have! I coach baseball, basketball and soccer all on travel levels.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:23 AM
Just because you graduate with a degree in History, does not mean you are stuck teaching history. You need to think outside the box. You could work as a teacher in elementray, middle or secondary schools, you can become a counslor, you can become an advisor for companys doing work in other countrys. You can work as a TV documentry person, you could write books. I know I'm missing a ton of things.i like i said earlier i really wasn't trying to step on your toes even though i feel it came out like that i really just had no idea what you could do with a degree in history, it's be fun being a tv documentary person even though i talk to country to get a job doing something like that unless it was something about the civil war or anything else to do with the south

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:26 AM
Ever heard of research? My mom is a lingüist and my father is an Anthropologist, both of them have made their whole life studying the language and social relationships of the P'hurhepecha Indians in western Mexico. And it has been a good enough living that they can pay NYU right now for me....

There is this general idea that you have to study something in the hard science to make a living, but I have lived among people that studied history, anthropology, linguistics, sociology, philosophy and all of them have a pretty darn good life, and love researching what they are doing. Some of them also teach, most of them basically do research.

They are jobs that are not as glamourosly considered as science, or technician jobs, but they are damn important, and they are damn cool to be in.once again let me state i wasn't trying to step on anyones toes i've just always been into the hard sciences and being in that environment the teachers have a tendency to try to make you believe nothing else measures up to what you're doing, i was just asking a simple question

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:26 AM
i like i said earlier i really wasn't trying to step on your toes even though i feel it came out like that i really just had no idea what you could do with a degree in history, it's be fun being a tv documentary person even though i talk to country to get a job doing something like that unless it was something about the civil war or anything else to do with the south

I wasn't mad. That is something I really learned at the old age of 42, my counslor (who is younger then me) really opened my eyes to all the different things you can do with certain degrees.

Think of the people you know in the workforce that have degrees, then think what they went to school for. I bet over 50% are in different fields.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:27 AM
I wasn't mad. That is something I really learned at the old age of 42, my counslor (who is younger then me) really opened my eyes to all the different things you can do with certain degrees.

Think of the people you know in the workforce that have degrees, then think what they went to school for. I bet over 50% are in different fields.oh yeah i'm sure i would hate to put all these years into school and then get out and not even work in the field i was trained in

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 12:28 AM
what are you going to graduate school to do and what do you plan on doing once you get out of school, because it just seems hard finding something to do other than teach with a degree in history (not trying to demean you or anything it's really just an honest question)

I plan on going for a doctorate and hope to be a professor/author. Teaching is the most common path, but grad. school doesn't work out, I will probably go back to work for an NGO that I have worked for previously that pays wages competitive to those others listed. Government work, corp.'s, etc. There is plenty of work for writing intensive majors.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:31 AM
I plan on going for a doctorate and hope to be a professor/author. Teaching is the most common path, but grad. school doesn't work out, I will probably go back to work for an NGO that I have worked for previously that pays wages competitive to those others listed. Government work, corp.'s, etc. There is plenty of work for writing intensive majors.that's cool, i like history used to be quite the history buff but i couldn't imagine majoring in it, i guess it would take the fun out of it working at it everyday

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 12:31 AM
Just because you graduate with a degree in History, does not mean you are stuck teaching history. You need to think outside the box. You could work as a teacher in elementray, middle or secondary schools, you can become a counslor, you can become an advisor for companys doing work in other countrys. You can work as a TV documentry person, you could write books. I know I'm missing a ton of things.

Exactly, and it goes the other way too. I know a guy with an engineering degree that works in an office crunching numbers.

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:33 AM
Teachers just starting after college in my area, make 45,000/55,000 starting. That's a 4 year degree.

45 per year as a teacher? You must know that that is not representative of the rest of the country

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:34 AM
There are a couple of reasons I am a History major.

1) I plan on going to graduate school.
2) Despite the extra cash, I prefer not to spend the rest of my life bored. History is something I enjoy and I am willing to take the hit to enjoy my life outside of just weekends.

Not much you can do with an MA in History. You'll probably get a 25-40k salary regardless of the MA.

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:35 AM
oh yeah i'm sure i would hate to put all these years into school and then get out and not even work in the field i was trained in

That's not the point I'm trying to get to you. My point is you have many more obtions then you think with the field you get your degree in.

Again, say teaching degree. You can work as a social worker, you could work for a fortune 500 company teaching workers (running clinics etc...) You can work as a counslor, you can be a libirian.

Or say you a biologist. You could teach, you could work for green peace, you could work for oil companys, you could work for farmers. You could be the croc hunter.

What I guess I'm saying, is you get a degree, and a hugh door opens for you, just not the one you got a degree in.

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 12:36 AM
that's cool, i like history used to be quite the history buff but i couldn't imagine majoring in it, i guess it would take the fun out of it working at it everyday

Nope, I love it more everyday, especially as I get more involved in the seedy underworld of the historian. :lol: I write what I want, even when I am told what to write about.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:37 AM
That's not the point I'm trying to get to you. My point is you have many more obtions then you think with the field you get your degree in.

Again, say teaching degree. You can work as a social worker, you could work for a fortune 500 company teaching workers (running clinics etc...) You can work as a counslor, you can be a libirian.

Or say you a biologist. You could teach, you could work for green peace, you could work for oil companys, you could work for farmers. You could be the croc hunter.

What I guess I'm saying, is you get a degree, and a hugh door opens for you, just not the one you got a degree in.i understood the point you were making i think i just went off on a tangent, by the way you just talked me into changing my major to biology with hopes of maybe one day becoming the next great croc hunter:lol:

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:38 AM
Not much you can do with an MA in History. You'll probably get a 25-40k salary regardless of the MA.

Greenspan graduated college with what degree????

It was Music.

Quelonio
12-01-2005, 12:38 AM
Nope I was not trying to snap back either, I just never have liked the attitude that you are very limited if you do not take these other options, I think that is bull I actually think that even if you study bussiness you can end up not earning money and in deep ****.

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:39 AM
I plan on going for a doctorate and hope to be a professor/author. Teaching is the most common path, but grad. school doesn't work out, I will probably go back to work for an NGO that I have worked for previously that pays wages competitive to those others listed. Government work, corp.'s, etc. There is plenty of work for writing intensive majors.

Im in grad school right now.
To get a PhD you need a 4.0 at the Masters level.
Now adays you also need Post Doctorate work to get a job at a University.
And even then you are not guaranteed a job.
And even if you get a job you still need tenure.
And once you get tenure youll be making under 50K

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:39 AM
i understood the point you were making i think i just went off on a tangent, by the way you just talked me into changing my major to biology with hopes of maybe one day becoming the next great croc hunter:lol:

A lot of crocs in MS???:lol:

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 12:39 AM
Not much you can do with an MA in History. You'll probably get a 25-40k salary regardless of the MA.

I guess you missed #2 in that list. Also, MA wouldn't be the goal.

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:40 AM
Greenspan graduated college with what degree????

It was Music.

I am sure you can find someone with a 1mil dollar salary with a degree in French Poetry too. Point is that 99% of them don't make squat

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:41 AM
A lot of crocs in MS???:lol:no crocs but we do have our fair share of gators, growing up we lived about 3/4 of a mile away from a wildlife refuge and we had at least one gator end up in our swimming pool every damn summer, one summer we had three, not at once just total, so i guess i'll be the next great gator hunter

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:42 AM
Im in grad school right now.
To get a PhD you need a 4.0 at the Masters level.
Now adays you also need Post Doctorate work to get a job at a University.
And even then you are not guaranteed a job.
And even if you get a job you still need tenure.
And once you get tenure youll be making under 50Kwhat are you working on in grad school?

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:42 AM
I guess you missed #2 in that list. Also, MA wouldn't be the goal.

A history degree at any level wont get you anything salary wise is the point

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:43 AM
what are you working on in grad school?

Industrial and labor relations at Michigan State

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 12:44 AM
I am sure you can find someone with a 1mil dollar salary with a degree in French Poetry too. Point is that 99% of them don't make squat

I think you caught to much on the money side. Don't take offense please. Find something you love to do, the rest will happen. I made a ton in Real Estate, but hated it and was a ******* to live with.

money is not everything, happness is.

I would rather make a little less and be happy and have my family happy. But again, that's just me.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:44 AM
Industrial and labor relations at Michigan StateBrownLamp i need to ask you a serious question, are you in any way affiliated with the mob because if so i must quit talking to you now:rofl3:

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:46 AM
I think you caught to much on the money side. Don't take offense please. Find something you love to do, the rest will happen. I made a ton in Real Estate, but hated it and was a ******* to live with.

money is not everything, happness is.

I would rather make a little less and be happy and have my family happy. But again, that's just me.

agreed. I would love to get into real estate.
takes money tho. with capital gains and taxes and whathaveyou.

when you are in your early 20s its hard to make a decision that affects the rest of your life.

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 12:49 AM
BrownLamp i need to ask you a serious question, are you in any way affiliated with the mob because if so i must quit talking to you now:rofl3:

no. im as poor as you are.
in fact if i don't get a full time job when i graduate in may, i don't know what i am going to do. probably move back with my family in miami.
and my program is top 3 in the nation. avg starting salary is 65k.
still can't find a damn job.

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 12:50 AM
no. im as poor as you are.
you don't know me:fire:, i was making a joke noting the fact that you are labor relations and that's what the sopranos did they did union work

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 12:50 AM
Im in grad school right now.
To get a PhD you need a 4.0 at the Masters level.
Now adays you also need Post Doctorate work to get a job at a University.
And even then you are not guaranteed a job.
And even if you get a job you still need tenure.
And once you get tenure youll be making under 50K

Again missed #2. And I know how the system works. Maybe if you get your doctorate from a minor college you will need more, but EVERY professor I know (and there are quite a few) began their tenure track with Doctorate work and worked on their post doctorate afterwards. Also, if you go into this profession for the pay, you are wasting your time and money.

And I don't know where you get that last figure, but every professor I know started at around $60,000 as an associate professor with the possibility of making around $80,000 as a full professor, and that isn't including money made from being published. But again, money isn't the reasoning behind my decision, if it was I would have stuck to the pre-med track.

Also, I am currently on track to skip the M.A. level anyways.

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 12:56 AM
A history degree at any level wont get you anything salary wise is the point

The point was that if my goal was to make money I would have gone into business. I would go back into the Army before doing that.

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 01:00 AM
Again missed #2. And I know how the system works. Maybe if you get your doctorate from a minor college you will need more, but EVERY professor I know (and there are quite a few) began their tenure track with Doctorate work and worked on their post doctorate afterwards. Also, if you go into this profession for the pay, you are wasting your time and money.

And I don't know where you get that last figure, but every professor I know started at around $60,000 as an associate professor with the possibility of making around $80,000 as a full professor, and that isn't including money made from being published. But again, money isn't the reasoning behind my decision, if it was I would have stuck to the pre-med track.

Also, I am currently on track to skip the M.A. level anyways.

My father is professor at FIU in the Bio dptmnt. Has been for 30 years.
He is on the admissions committe as every professor in the Bio dptmnt is.
He says (at least at FIU) the avg is certainly no where near 60K.

Starting at 60K is absurd. An associate professor will definitely not make more than 50K per year. I teach one class as a part of my program to undergrads at MSU and I can tell you first hand what other grad sudents make. They are hoping to get a 45K if they get accepted as an associate prof. I can't imagine that other school are that far apart from Florida Intenational and Michigan State University.

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 01:00 AM
The point was that if my goal was to make money I would have gone into business. I would go back into the Army before doing that.

no doubt. do what makes you happy. that is lifes goal

ABrownLamp
12-01-2005, 01:02 AM
you don't know me:fire:, i was making a joke noting the fact that you are labor relations and that's what the sopranos did they did union work

whoa dude. my bad.
im just saying im poor.

d-day
12-01-2005, 01:04 AM
The point was that if my goal was to make money I would have gone into business. I would go back into the Army before doing that.

the army? i bet 10 dollars you can't do 5 push-ups... besides you can't go, all the plants are gonna die

ih8brady
12-01-2005, 01:55 AM
the army? i bet 10 dollars you can't do 5 push-ups... besides you can't go, all the plants are gonna die


Seeing how he said "back", its safe to say hes a former solider. Whats your point, has he said anything neg about the USA?

Quelonio
12-01-2005, 01:58 AM
Seeing how he said "back", its safe to say hes a former solider. Whats your point, has he said anything neg about the USA?

They are friends, so I'm sure it is an inside joke, that gets a little lost with us...

d-day
12-01-2005, 02:00 AM
They are friends, so I'm sure it is an inside joke, that gets a little lost with us...

:yeahthat:

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 02:14 AM
My father is professor at FIU in the Bio dptmnt. Has been for 30 years.
He is on the admissions committe as every professor in the Bio dptmnt is.
He says (at least at FIU) the avg is certainly no where near 60K.

Starting at 60K is absurd. An associate professor will definitely not make more than 50K per year. I teach one class as a part of my program to undergrads at MSU and I can tell you first hand what other grad sudents make. They are hoping to get a 45K if they get accepted as an associate prof. I can't imagine that other school are that far apart from Florida Intenational and Michigan State University.

Not so absurd. Largely it depends on the school and field. As for history professors, this graph (link at bottom) is pretty inline with what the professors I know make. Assistant Professors tend to make what you suggested according to the same site, and that is fairly well in line with what I have seen offered at many of the schools I have been in contact with. The biggest difference, as far as I know, is between private and public universities. For grad. school, private is the way to go the vast majority of the time, both for school and for work.

I can't speak for other fields, but this is what I KNOW about history. Not to mention being published, which most I know are and which I plan to be (actually, I am working on a children's book right now as a side project :lol:).

Associate History Professor average salary (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?NarrowCode=ED01&NarrowDesc=Education&JobTitle=Assoc%2E+Professor+%2D+History+%2D+Higher+Ed%2E&JobCode=ED03000129&geo=U.S.%20National%20Averages)

Not saying your information is wrong. But it certainly doesn't speak for all. I know that biology professors do tend to make a little less, which never made much sense to me because they usually make those types of research professionals competitive with what they would make in the private sector.

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 02:19 AM
the army? i bet 10 dollars you can't do 5 push-ups... besides you can't go, all the plants are gonna die

Yeah, it was a while ago. I joined the Army 'cause my father and my brother were in the Army. I figured I better join before I got drafted.

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 02:22 AM
Seeing how he said "back", its safe to say hes a former solider. Whats your point, has he said anything neg about the USA?

No worries. Reread what he wrote and think of some funny movies from the eighties. I gave another clue right before this ;) . :chuckle:

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 02:23 AM
my only guess is in the army now

d-day
12-01-2005, 02:26 AM
Yeah, it was a while ago. I joined the Army 'cause my father and my brother were in the Army. I figured I better join before I got drafted.

you know something gonzo you are a madman! - when you stole that cow and your friend started making it with the cow... i wanna party with you cowboy :eyebrow:

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 02:34 AM
my only guess is in the army now

:shakeno:

You disappoint me. You know what that means, right?

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/12/vin3dr-1.gif

jnewmant
12-01-2005, 02:34 AM
:shakeno:

You disappoint me. You know what that means, right?

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/12/vin3dr-1.gifif i had any idea what the damn vin diesel picture meant i may be offended

d-day
12-01-2005, 02:35 AM
:shakeno:

You disappoint me. You know what that means, right?

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/12/vin3dr-1.gif

:lol: - the fox got vinnified - shame, shame... :tsk:

Gonzo
12-01-2005, 02:35 AM
if i had any idea what the damn vin diesel picture meant i may be offended

:chuckle:

NJFINSFAN1
12-01-2005, 09:37 AM
www.salary.com

cnc66
12-01-2005, 10:04 AM
Gonzo, are you familiar with George Whitwell Parsons or perhaps Carl Chafin?

Gonzo
12-02-2005, 01:29 AM
Gonzo, are you familiar with George Whitwell Parsons or perhaps Carl Chafin?

Somewhat. I have to admit, my knowledge of Arizona history is limited. Tombstone is a pretty interesting tourist spot, no doubt. On a side note, my dentist has a picture of Doc Holliday on his wall, which I always thought was pretty cool.

I was originally focused on medieval studies, but have recently centered on early American education, New Orleans, and linguistic foundations. Which I choose will primarily be based on what school I get accepted into/choose (hopefully). William & Mary-early American education; Tulane-any of the three, though probably the Irish in N.O. as I have done research on them; U. of Toronto- Linguistic foundations, early American education, or U.S.-Canadian relations; NYU- probably their archive management program; and U. of Waterloo- U.S.-Canadian relations.

Probably more information than you were looking for.

Roman529
12-02-2005, 04:04 AM
I have a B.A. in Political Science and an M.P.A. in Public Administration....my twin brother never went to college but he is one of the best tank and humvee mechanics around...he is making about $150,000/year tax free in Kuwait but he works 6 days a week and puts in 15+ hour days....he has not been able to see his kids but twice in the past 3 years. Money isn't everything....you have to decide what is important to you and whether college or any degree is right for you...I had a great time in college and graduate school and would not trade my time at the Univ. of Colorado or Arizona State for anything....I don't make anywhere near the kind of money my brother does but I am happy...money will never be my main thing in life. :)

Clark Kent
12-02-2005, 05:17 AM
Yeah, it was a while ago. I joined the Army 'cause my father and my brother were in the Army. I figured I better join before I got drafted.

I think I'm the only one to get that Stripes reference... Unless you were being serious :D

d-day
12-02-2005, 06:52 AM
the references man there killing me... :wink:

cnc66
12-02-2005, 07:46 AM
Somewhat. I have to admit, my knowledge of Arizona history is limited. Tombstone is a pretty interesting tourist spot, no doubt. On a side note, my dentist has a picture of Doc Holliday on his wall, which I always thought was pretty cool.
Probably more information than you were looking for.

Carl Chafin just passed on a few month's ago and I guess I was hoping you may have known him. His widow is being fussy about shareing Carls work. I was involved in a minor way with his procuring good copies of the original George Parsons diaries from UF. George kept a diary his entire life and the parts that are relevent to his days on Biscayne Bay in 1873-75 are unpublished. I posses a very rough transcription of this but it is incomplete (of course it is the part that interests me the most) and Mrs. Chafin is not nearly as co-operative about this as was Carl....oh well, always lookin'

Gonzo
12-02-2005, 03:03 PM
Carl Chafin just passed on a few month's ago and I guess I was hoping you may have known him. His widow is being fussy about shareing Carls work. I was involved in a minor way with his procuring good copies of the original George Parsons diaries from UF. George kept a diary his entire life and the parts that are relevent to his days on Biscayne Bay in 1873-75 are unpublished. I posses a very rough transcription of this but it is incomplete (of course it is the part that interests me the most) and Mrs. Chafin is not nearly as co-operative about this as was Carl....oh well, always lookin'


That is awesome. I believe the University of Arizona :barf: is more oriented to Southwestern U.S. history, particularly Arizona. We do have a few excellent scholars in the field here though. I can ask around if you like. Maybe get some names for you to contact here. I will ask around. Now, if you want some Native American (South and North) history, we have possibly the best in the nation. Especially in regards to South American.