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View Full Version : Philly: gives Gordon 3 year deal



PeaTearGriffin
12-02-2005, 01:01 AM
no big surprise.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2244420

Jimmy James
12-02-2005, 01:13 AM
They really like that scrub that well up there?

Are the Eagles really that bad off?

Gadsden86
12-02-2005, 01:14 AM
guess buckhalter is gone..

PeaTearGriffin
12-02-2005, 01:15 AM
haha no no not that gordon, tom gordon

FaninPatsyLand
12-02-2005, 01:33 AM
Well if the Phillies ever make the playoffs, he can throw up in the bullpen.

Talk about big game pitchers, that guy definitely isn't one. He flat out sucks..

Ray Finkle
12-02-2005, 01:38 AM
Well if the Phillies ever make the playoffs, he can throw up in the bullpen.

Talk about big game pitchers, that guy definitely isn't one. He flat out sucks..

Well he'll fit right in with McNabb then ;)

Anyway although he's awful in the post season, I have to give him credit he is a very good regular season pitcher. However giving him a 3 year deal at age 38 especially considering his injury history seems pretty risky. But I guess the Phillies had to sign someone to close.

FaninPatsyLand
12-02-2005, 01:40 AM
Well he'll fit right in with McNabb then ;)

Anyway although he's awful in the post season, I have to give him credit he is a very good regular season pitcher. However giving him a 3 year deal at age 38 especially considering his injury history seems pretty risky. But I guess the Phillies had to sign someone to close.

I'm sure that's really comforting to the Philadelphia fans that are stuck with this bum for 3 years, "Well, he's terrible when it matters." :lol:

Ray Finkle
12-02-2005, 02:16 AM
I'm sure that's really comforting to the Philadelphia fans that are stuck with this bum for 3 years, "Well, he's terrible when it matters." :lol:

It's a little sad that he's not on the Yankees anymore. It was always fun watching Torre call him into a big game and seeing him blow it.

SMadison29
12-02-2005, 02:21 AM
It's a little sad that he's not on the Yankees anymore. It was always fun watching Torre call him into a big game and seeing him blow it.

He only did that 7 times out of 79 chances. He was a bit overused in the Torre era. Good signing by the Phillies.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-02-2005, 02:30 AM
With what's on the market as far as relievers are concerned, this is a huge loss for the Yankees. I don't trust Farnsworth but even if by some miracle of God he pans out the Yankees still have nobody. Strurtze suckes, period. The Yankees bullpen problems weren't with the 8th and 9th innings they were with the 6th and 7th innings. Last year we had a 2 guy bullpen and I don't want to hear about how Sturtze was over-used, this guy just stinks IMO. I really don't know where the Yankees go with their bullpen. If I was Torre I would try Wright in the Gordon roll and save Farnsworth for the 7th (or 6th is Moose is starting). With 2 years and 14 million left, moving Wright to the bullpen is a cheap move considering what Gordon got. Wright is injury prone and was a terrible starter last year but I would trust him with his 96 MPH fastball to come in and get 3 outs in the 8th consistantly. Right now there's nothing on the market and we don't have much to trade. Cashman's going to have to piece this together like he pieced together a rotation last year. His skills will be put to the test this off-season, that's for **** sure!

Nappy Roots
12-02-2005, 02:32 AM
man, the pitchers contracts are getting crazy. I thought the Rays were going to be able to sign a pitcher or two, **** at this rate we would double our payroll signing 2 pitchers.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-02-2005, 02:36 AM
man, the pitchers contracts are getting crazy. I thought the Rays were going to be able to sign a pitcher or two, **** at this rate we would double our payroll signing 2 pitchers.

The top free-agents are getting more money this year because this is a crap class of free agents and since a lot of teams have money to spend this year, their over-paying like crazy. Esteban Loiaza just 21 million for 3 years from Billy Beane. This is no ordinary off-season!

MikeO
12-02-2005, 10:34 AM
I like Farnsworth more. HUGE upside. Watched him a lot in Detroit and he was very good! I love the guy I hope NY gets him.

Screw Gordon I can't stand him. Glad he's gone.

MikeO
12-02-2005, 10:42 AM
With what's on the market as far as relievers are concerned, this is a huge loss for the Yankees. I don't trust Farnsworth but even if by some miracle of God he pans out the Yankees still have nobody. Strurtze suckes, period. The Yankees bullpen problems weren't with the 8th and 9th innings they were with the 6th and 7th innings. Last year we had a 2 guy bullpen and I don't want to hear about how Sturtze was over-used, this guy just stinks IMO. I really don't know where the Yankees go with their bullpen. If I was Torre I would try Wright in the Gordon roll and save Farnsworth for the 7th (or 6th is Moose is starting). With 2 years and 14 million left, moving Wright to the bullpen is a cheap move considering what Gordon got. Wright is injury prone and was a terrible starter last year but I would trust him with his 96 MPH fastball to come in and get 3 outs in the 8th consistantly. Right now there's nothing on the market and we don't have much to trade. Cashman's going to have to piece this together like he pieced together a rotation last year. His skills will be put to the test this off-season, that's for **** sure!

The Yanks currently have 7 starting pitchers. Pavano might be moved to get a big time CF or 1B. So now you are down to 6 possibly. With Small being moved to the bullpen probably to do relief work. The bullpen isn't great or outstanding, but it is good. And if we keep Pavano, it will be just fine.

Injuries killed the Yanks pitching last year. You have to think Pavano and Wright come back healthy after all the time they have had off.

GreenMonster
12-02-2005, 03:01 PM
Screw Gordon I can't stand him. Glad he's gone.

Gordon throws back to back 80+ inning years with a sub 2.6 era both years. I like the Farnsworth move but remember, he won't be pitching in Detroit anymore, and the guys career era is 4.45.. I hope for your sake he turned the corner last year.

Ray Finkle
12-02-2005, 03:22 PM
I like Farnsworth more. HUGE upside. Watched him a lot in Detroit and he was very good! I love the guy I hope NY gets him.

Screw Gordon I can't stand him. Glad he's gone.

I knew it was only a matter of time until you talked about what a great move getting Farnsworth was. Obviously you haven't watched him before 2005 or in the playoffs with the Braves.

Trust me I like Farnsworth on the Yankees more than you do. You also do realize that Farnsworth doesn't have the greatest health in the world either right? He's had arm/shoulder problems in the past and only pitched over 80 innings in his career 2 times and 1 year it was because he was a starter?

And of course Farnsworth has a huge upside. He's sucked his whole career minus last year, he can't get much worse. The guy has a career ERA of 4.45, 1.39 WHIP, and .246 BAA all pitching in the National League. Man and you talk about Beckett being bad or overrated. Also Mike you have to consider the NY media factor and if he could handle that pressure. After all pitching in NY is nothing like pitching in Detriot or Atlanta. He obviously couldn't handle the pressure of Chicago.:shakeno:

Screw Gordon you can't stand him? Man you turned into an even bigger Yankee homer recently huh? 2 months ago you were saying between Rivera and Gordon they're tough to beat when the game gets into the 7th or 8th inning. Now you're glad the guy is gone? And for Kyle Farnsworth? :lol:

FinsNYanksFan13
12-02-2005, 04:25 PM
The Yanks currently have 7 starting pitchers. Pavano might be moved to get a big time CF or 1B. So now you are down to 6 possibly. With Small being moved to the bullpen probably to do relief work. The bullpen isn't great or outstanding, but it is good. And if we keep Pavano, it will be just fine.

Injuries killed the Yanks pitching last year. You have to think Pavano and Wright come back healthy after all the time they have had off.


# 1 I would move Pavano and Cano for Torri Hunter or Ichiro. Doubt it happens but those are two trades I would give Cano and Pavano up for. Right now our rotation (minus Pavano if we trade him) is Randy, Moose, Wang, Chacon, Small, and Wright. If we keep Pavano I think it's a no brainer that Wright and Small are odd men out. If we don't out of those 6 I would move Wright to Gordon's set up role because A. He is injury prone as a starter and I believe that with his stuff (Hate if you want but he's got a 95 MPH fastball) and since his pitch count will be relatively low in his outings (granted he's getting the job done) he will be able to stay healthy and make an impact on this team B. Because moving him to this role is relatively cheap being that Gordon just got 3 years 18 million from the Phillies C. Even if the Yankees sign Farnsworth they still need a lot of help in the bullpen because as we all know, getting outs in the 8th and 9th innings wasn't the Yankees problems last year. It was when a starter only went 5 or 6 innings in a close game that they ran into trouble by NOT being able to get to Gordon and Mo. And D. The market for relievers is trash aside from closers on the market (which the Yankees don't need) and I honestly feel that Wright as the set-up man is better then anything else on the market right now. I have no problem keeping Pavano (because even if we do I think Wright should move to the set-up role) but Cashman has mentioned on WFAN that he has heard from teams inquiring about him and if we could get Ichiro or Hunter in a deal (and I would deal Cano for Pierre in a heartbeat because the Marlins just traded Castillo to the Twins and they need a second baseman. Plus they wouldn't want Pavano) I would take it with a smile. I'd have no problem with Womack at 2nd and Pierre or Ichiro leading off (Torri Hunter doesn't have a bad bat but his defense is just flat out incredible so I would move for him even though we need a lead off hitter in the worst way). Either Ichiro or Pierre would steal a ton of bases for the Yankees along with Womack and it would allow us to manufacture runs instead of always waiting for the big home run. I am dreaming right now but my main point is that the Yankees should give Wright the set up role IMO!

MikeO
12-02-2005, 05:57 PM
I knew it was only a matter of time until you talked about what a great move getting Farnsworth was. Obviously you haven't watched him before 2005 or in the playoffs with the Braves.

Trust me I like Farnsworth on the Yankees more than you do. You also do realize that Farnsworth doesn't have the greatest health in the world either right? He's had arm/shoulder problems in the past and only pitched over 80 innings in his career 2 times and 1 year it was because he was a starter?

And of course Farnsworth has a huge upside. He's sucked his whole career minus last year, he can't get much worse. The guy has a career ERA of 4.45, 1.39 WHIP, and .246 BAA all pitching in the National League. Man and you talk about Beckett being bad or overrated. Also Mike you have to consider the NY media factor and if he could handle that pressure. After all pitching in NY is nothing like pitching in Detriot or Atlanta. He obviously couldn't handle the pressure of Chicago.:shakeno:

Screw Gordon you can't stand him? Man you turned into an even bigger Yankee homer recently huh? 2 months ago you were saying between Rivera and Gordon they're tough to beat when the game gets into the 7th or 8th inning. Now you're glad the guy is gone? And for Kyle Farnsworth? :lol:

1) Gordon and Rivera were good compared to the rest of the ****TY *** bullpens last season in the AL. Gordon will get on a hot streak for a few weeks, but long-term Im not a huge fan of his and is on the downside of his career.

2) I don't want the Yanks giving a long-term big money deal to Tom Gordon who is long in the tooth.

3) Farnsworth is the BEST AVAILABLE option for the Yanks right now short of signing Trevor Hoffman to pitch the 8th inning. No fan can complain when their team signs the best available option.

4) You said....."he sucked his whole career minus last year". Well, ok,...Im not signing the guy off his 2001 stats!:shakeno: Players improve, grow,...etc.

MikeO
12-02-2005, 06:01 PM
Gordon throws back to back 80+ inning years with a sub 2.6 era both years. I like the Farnsworth move but remember, he won't be pitching in Detroit anymore, and the guys career era is 4.45.. I hope for your sake he turned the corner last year.

Last year his ERA in Detroit was 2.32 and in Atlanta it was 1.98. It's a risk no doubt, but its the best move the team could make.

Not to mention most pitchers hit their stride later in their carrer. So its an educated risk worth taking.

Ray Finkle
12-02-2005, 07:02 PM
3) Farnsworth is the BEST AVAILABLE option for the Yanks right now short of signing Trevor Hoffman to pitch the 8th inning. No fan can complain when their team signs the best available option.

4) You said....."he sucked his whole career minus last year". Well, ok,...Im not signing the guy off his 2001 stats!:shakeno: Players improve, grow,...etc.

3.) Farnsworth is a better option than Gordon? Gordon at least has a track record of being good for 2 straight years.

4.) Well apparently Farnsworth didn't improve or grow since 2001. Considering his ERA in 2003 was 7.33. He did have a good year last year no doubt about it but I don't know how you can be happy with him considering:

A.) His past performances in the NL
B.) His injury past
C.) His high WHIP rate. Can you bring Farnsworth in with runners on base?
D.) His performances in big games. He blew up when the Braves needed him the most. Are you concident in him getting 3 outs in a big spot in Yankee Stadium or Fenway?

If the Red Sox got Farnsworth I'm 100% sure you'd be killing them on the deal.

Ray Finkle
12-02-2005, 07:04 PM
Not to mention most pitchers hit their stride later in their carrer. So its an educated risk worth taking.

So why are you killing the Red Sox for getting Beckett who is 25 years old and haven't hit his stride yet and is already a big game pitcher.

God you're such a homer. Not to mention a bigger hyocrite :shakeno:

MikeO
12-02-2005, 07:30 PM
So why are you killing the Red Sox for getting Beckett who is 25 years old and haven't hit his stride yet and is already a big game pitcher.

God you're such a homer. Not to mention a bigger hyocrite :shakeno:

Im a hypocrite, your a jackass. Feel better now with the namecalling. Ok, now that its out of the way.

Because Beckett is a starting pitcher with numerous health issues and is going to be depneded on to win you a world series. Farnsworth is going to be pitching 1 inning and if he bombs (ala Steve Karsay) its a lot easier to replace a Farnsworth than it is a Beckett.

PLUS......the Yanks didn't give up TOP PROSPECTS to get Farnsworth. He was a free agent!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't understand that, your ****ing assclown (want to start resorting to namecalling from now on, I can do that in every post. That will make this place fun) :confused:

MikeO
12-02-2005, 07:31 PM
3.) Farnsworth is a better option than Gordon? Gordon at least has a track record of being good for 2 straight years.

4.) Well apparently Farnsworth didn't improve or grow since 2001. Considering his ERA in 2003 was 7.33. He did have a good year last year no doubt about it but I don't know how you can be happy with him considering:

A.) His past performances in the NL
B.) His injury past
C.) His high WHIP rate. Can you bring Farnsworth in with runners on base?
D.) His performances in big games. He blew up when the Braves needed him the most. Are you concident in him getting 3 outs in a big spot in Yankee Stadium or Fenway?

If the Red Sox got Farnsworth I'm 100% sure you'd be killing them on the deal.

actually no, if the Sox got Farnsworth I would fear them more. Just as if the Sox signed Hoffman. Just as if the Sox got Konerko I would fear them more (when manny is gone) than if they go get an Abreu or someone else.

Ray Finkle
12-02-2005, 08:08 PM
Im a hypocrite, your a jackass. Feel better now with the namecalling. Ok, now that its out of the way.

If you don't understand that, your ****ing assclown (want to start resorting to namecalling from now on, I can do that in every post. That will make this place fun) :confused:

:lol: :rofl3: :roflmao:

It's a good thing no one takes you seriously around here. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Ray Finkle
12-02-2005, 08:18 PM
Because Beckett is a starting pitcher with numerous health issues and is going to be depneded on to win you a world series. Farnsworth is going to be pitching 1 inning and if he bombs (ala Steve Karsay) its a lot easier to replace a Farnsworth than it is a Beckett.

PLUS......the Yanks didn't give up TOP PROSPECTS to get Farnsworth. He was a free agent!!!!!!!!!!!!

So the Yankees didn't get Farnsworth to help them win a World Series? :confused:

Farnsworth also has had numerous healthy problems in the past as well. Also that's fine you got him as a Free Agent, he costs more than Beckett does

Again top prospects were Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez. Delgado and the other guy who's name escapes me at the moment have been pitching in A and weren't top prospects.

Once again Sanchez was the 4th best pitching prospect in the Red Sox organization behind Papelbon, Lester and Hansen so it wasn't a huge loss although I think he's going to be good. AND if Hanley was so good and Boston was going to depend on him for the future why did the F.O.:
a.) Sign Rentera to a 4 year deal
b.) Never move Hanley to a different position full time in the minors so he could learn the new position?

Do you think that maybe the Sox were keeping Hanley at SS to keep his trade value? After all it's harder to get a good SS prospect than an OF prospect. It also didn't hurt that the Red Sox were hyping the crap out of the kid too.

Also let's not forget that Hanley dropped down in Boston's prospect listing, as he had been #1 for 2 years and after his bad season in Double A dropped down to #4.

MikeO
12-02-2005, 08:26 PM
:lol: :rofl3: :roflmao:

It's a good thing no one takes you seriously around here. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Once again you are competing against yourself in an "online popularity contest" waiting for your online friends to give you a man-hug and a high five because you are "liked around here" and I'm not. Let me go cry in my milk now..:cry: :rofl3: :cry: :rofl3:

I was just pointing out that when you CAN'T win an argument or just can't decide to agree to disagree, you resort to namecalling like a 12 year old.

MikeO
12-02-2005, 08:32 PM
So the Yankees didn't get Farnsworth to help them win a World Series? :confused:

.

. If Farnsworth blows out his arm opening day, the Yanks world series chances are damaged but not over. They go from say 90% to about 80%. Probably not even that much of a drop

If Beckett blows out his arm opening day, the Red Sox world series chances drop from about 90% to 65% or lower.

Salary means nothing, you gotta deal in reality. The Yanks have far fewer eggs in the Farnsworth basket than the Sox have in the Beckett basket. You can if you must, patch-work that 1 inning every couple games. You can't patch-work every 5th start easily at all.

Ray Finkle
12-03-2005, 01:13 AM
I was just pointing out that when you CAN'T win an argument or just can't decide to agree to disagree, you resort to namecalling like a 12 year old.

You're the one that called me a jackass. All I did was call you a homer (which is true) and that you're hypocrite (which you are).

I wasn't aware that we had a competition to see who was right or wrong. But according to you you won it so congrats. :D

Roman529
12-03-2005, 04:59 AM
The Phillies just locked up the 2006 World Series. :)

RWhitney014
12-03-2005, 11:30 AM
The Phillies just locked up the 2006 World Series. :)

I don't think they've come close to wrapping up the NL East. Mets and Braves probably finish ahead.

Mike, re: Farnsworth, the guy is a nut. He kicked a fan (the object, not the person) a couple years ago and blew out his knee. And let's not forget when he divebombed Paul Wilson (I think it was him). He got out of the spotlight of Chicago, where so much was expected of him because he can throw hard, and he threw well in places where no one expected anything of him. If he starts blowing leads in the Bronx, he'll be blowing up himself. If he is solid it's a pretty damn good deal in this ridiculous market (Hector effing Carrasco gets 6.1 million???), but there's plenty of risk as well.

And in this whole JB thing, Beckett at 75% can have a much larger effect on the Red Sox' chances this year than Farnsworth can at 100% for the Yanks. An ace vs. a set-up man...they're not even comparable investments.

MikeO
12-03-2005, 12:00 PM
An ace vs. a set-up man...they're not even comparable investments.

My point exactly. THANK YOU!!!!! :woot: :thewave:

phunwin
12-03-2005, 01:14 PM
3 years and $18 million for a 38 year old pitcher whose K/IP have been sharply declining? No thanks. Terrible signing by the Phillies. Possibly the worst of the offseason thus far.

The Yanks are much better off signing Farnsworth.

Ray Finkle
12-03-2005, 01:28 PM
Farnsworth, the guy is a nut. He kicked a fan (the object, not the person) a couple years ago and blew out his knee. And let's not forget when he divebombed Paul Wilson (I think it was him). He got out of the spotlight of Chicago, where so much was expected of him because he can throw hard, and he threw well in places where no one expected anything of him. If he starts blowing leads in the Bronx, he'll be blowing up himself. If he is solid it's a pretty damn good deal in this ridiculous market (Hector effing Carrasco gets 6.1 million???), but there's plenty of risk as well.

Too bad Kevin Brown is gone, he would have fit right in....

Farnsworth is a nut. The only thing that worries me is that he'll throw at any Red Sox at anytime. I just have flash backs to F'N Al Reyes ruining Nomar Garciaparra's career.

phunwin
12-03-2005, 01:31 PM
Farnsworth is crazy, no doubt about it. But he's a good pitcher, and he's a much better investment than Tom Gordon. Farnsworth walks more guys than you'd like, but he's hard to hit and rings up a lot of Ks. The rest of the stuff is secondary.

QB2RonnieTD23
12-03-2005, 01:35 PM
Well if the Phillies ever make the playoffs, he can throw up in the bullpen.

Talk about big game pitchers, that guy definitely isn't one. He flat out sucks..

:yeahthat:

Considering Gillick started the off-season with such and incredible job of trading Jim Thome for a SOLID CF like Aaron Rowand to replace that JOKE Kenny Lofton, and now the last few moves he's made have been mediocre to down right awful....i'm just hoping at the winter meetings next week he can make a BIG SPLASH because so far i'm not impressed. I'd like to see the Phillies pull off the rumored deal with New York Jason Michaels for Pavano and much of his contract paid off.....or better yet, find a way to get rid of Bobby Abreu whether it be Manny or a prospect or something.

phunwin
12-03-2005, 01:37 PM
(I'm cross-posting this from the Barry Zito thread because it seemed to make more sense here)

K/9 IP is one of the easiest ways to detect a possible decline in a pitcher. Once that starts going down, the pitcher's overall stats will almost always suffer. Check out Gordon's K/9 IP over the last three years: (source: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/play...om-gordon.shtml)

2003 - 11.07
2004 - 9.64
2005 - 7.70

IF Gordon is good in 2006, and that's a crapshoot, he won't be in 2007. And by 2008, they'll be hiring a hitman to take him out and get his salary off the payroll.

Ray Finkle
12-03-2005, 01:38 PM
find a way to get rid of Bobby Abreu whether it be Manny or a prospect or something.

I'll trade you Trot Nixon and Matt Clement for Bobby Abreu right now. Do we have a deal?

QB2RonnieTD23
12-03-2005, 01:43 PM
I'll trade you Trot Nixon and Matt Clement for Bobby Abreu right now. Do we have a deal?

I'd do that, it would give the Phillies a quality starter which at current they dont have, and an outfielder who's cheaper, better defensively and not too bad offensively for Abreu who couldn't field in a SOFTBALL game and is a terrible clutch hitter and very inconsistent....plus he's not a team player and refuses to move anywhere out of the 4-5 spot in the lineup. BUT i'd still rather have Manny :D

FaninPatsyLand
12-03-2005, 01:50 PM
I'd do that, it would give the Phillies a quality starter which at current they dont have, and an outfielder who's cheaper, better defensively and not too bad offensively for Abreu who couldn't field in a SOFTBALL game and is a terrible clutch hitter and very inconsistent....plus he's not a team player and refuses to move anywhere out of the 4-5 spot in the lineup. BUT i'd still rather have Manny :D

Oh boy..

Trust me, you don't want the piece of garbage that is Matt Clement. He'll look like an All-Star for the first hald of the season and then during the strech run, you'll dread to see him out on the mound every 5 days.

The guy sucks..

Ray Finkle
12-03-2005, 01:50 PM
I'd do that, it would give the Phillies a quality starter which at current they dont have, and an outfielder who's cheaper, better defensively and not too bad offensively for Abreu who couldn't field in a SOFTBALL game and is a terrible clutch hitter and very inconsistent....plus he's not a team player and refuses to move anywhere out of the 4-5 spot in the lineup. BUT i'd still rather have Manny :D

Ok I'll call up the Boston F.O. and you call up Gilleck and we'll get this deal done as soon as possible. ;)

QB2RonnieTD23
12-03-2005, 01:53 PM
Ok I'll call up the Boston F.O. and you call up Gilleck and we'll get this deal done as soon as possible. ;)

:lol:

i'll get right on it....

anyway, not that i'm a huge Clement fan. But after sitting through 3 seasons of guys like Kevin Millwood, Eric Milton, Vincente Padilla, Jon Leiber, and the rest of the below mediocre pitching we've sent out there...Clement would be like the second coming of Steve Carlton :)