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MikeO
12-03-2005, 11:18 AM
Mets and Rangers are making bids to the A's for him.

Oakland doens't have to trade him and could afford to keep him even after Lozia's contract. But Oakland probably will trade him.

GreenMonster
12-03-2005, 11:39 AM
Good move by Billy, sign Lozia to a overpriced deal, then trade your young good pitching because you won't be able to afford them later. What am I missing here...

finfansince72
12-03-2005, 11:49 AM
Has to be tough to be an Oakland fan, they just never keep good players. However, they develop some awesome talent for the bigger market teams thats for sure.

phunwin
12-03-2005, 01:28 PM
I forgot the Loaiza signing. That, not the Tom Gordon pickup, was the worst move of the offseason.

I like Zito well enough, as long as Omar Minaya, if he makes a deal, recognizes that Zito is basically a younger, slightly better version of Steve Trachsel, and not the superstar he was in 2002.

Ray Finkle
12-03-2005, 01:30 PM
I'm sure the Red Sox will be in the bidding for Zito. I know for a fact that Beane likes both Kevin Youkilis and Abe Alvarez. Maybe if we throw in those two and possibly Kelly Shoppach or Brandan Moss it could possibly be enough?

Although I can see Beane either resigning him (which he said he would try to do in the paper today) or trading him to an NL team like he did with Hudson and Mulder.

QB2RonnieTD23
12-03-2005, 01:31 PM
I forgot the Loaiza signing. That, not the Tom Gordon pickup, was the worst move of the offseason.

I like Zito well enough, as long as Omar Minaya, if he makes a deal, recognizes that Zito is basically a younger, slightly better version of Steve Trachsel, and not the superstar he was in 2002.

I agree, while Wagner leaving was the right decision in my opinion. Why ANYONE would take Tom Gordon over Trevor Hoffman or B.J Ryan is completely beyond me. Zito now on the market means the Phillies and GM Pat Gillick (who has raved about getting starting pitchers) should really take a look. I wish the Mets would just go away, for they cant comprehend the fact that no matter WHO they sign they will be a mediocre ballclub for they are the Mets and that is what they DO.

phunwin
12-03-2005, 01:35 PM
K/9 IP is one of the easiest ways to detect a possible decline in a pitcher. Once that starts going down, the pitcher's overall stats will almost always suffer. Check out Gordon's K/9 IP over the last three years: (source: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/tom-gordon.shtml)

2003 - 11.07
2004 - 9.64
2005 - 7.70

IF Gordon is good in 2006, and that's a crapshoot, he won't be in 2007. And by 2008, they'll be hiring a hitman to take him out and get his salary off the payroll.

QB2RonnieTD23
12-03-2005, 01:37 PM
K/9 IP is one of the easiest ways to detect a possible decline in a pitcher. Once that starts going down, the pitcher's overall stats will almost always suffer. Check out Gordon's K/9 IP over the last three years: (source: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/G/tom-gordon.shtml)

2003 - 11.07
2004 - 9.64
2005 - 7.70

IF Gordon is good in 2006, and that's a crapshoot, he won't be in 2007. And by 2008, they'll be hiring a hitman to take him out and get his salary off the payroll.

This is the Phillies were't talking about, dont you think we've CONTEMPLATED bringing in Hitmen? (cough cough Lieberthal, Bell) :lol:

unifiedtheory
12-03-2005, 04:23 PM
Good move by Billy, sign Lozia to a overpriced deal, then trade your young good pitching because you won't be able to afford them later. What am I missing here...

"This was an opportunity to add a player without subtracting one," Beane said at a press conference to introduce Loaiza to the Bay Area media. "I wouldn't necessarily read anything into this that this is a precursor for anything that's coming down the pike."

Beane has also said he is'nt LOOKING to trade Zito and does'nt WANT to trade Zito but the financial reality is they won't be able to resign Zito when he hits the open market after this season.

He also said, "People are going to look at the Hudson and Mulder situations here and say, 'Oh, they have to do something [with Zito] now,'" he said. "But you can go back to the years when we had [Jason] Giambi and Miggy [Tejada] in the final year of their contracts, too. If we feel like we're in a position to win the division, we're not afraid to keep a guy we think will help us do that."

He's also said he loves the idea of a Zito-Harden-Loaiza-Haren-Blanton pitching rotation. That could be the best rotation in all of baseball.

The other reality is, and Beane knows this, is the team NEEDS a bat. They need a power hitter to put in the 4 hole to protect Eric Chavez. Chavvy hit 4th most of last year when Crosby was healthy but, Crosby (in my opinion) is not ready for the rigours of hitting #3 for a full season and Chavez is more a #3 hitter. Getting a bat to hit cleanup, moving Chavvy back to the 3 hole full time and batting Crosby 6th is the best thing for the team.

If Beane can get a bat without trading Zito it is a bonus but I find that unlikely unless they want to sign a Piazza/Frank Thomas type of player (and if either of those guys would take a below market contract...also not likely to happen).

If Zito gets trade for a bat then I'm all for it. A pitching rotation of Harden-Loaiza-Haren-Blanton-Saarloos is just fine with me...and still pretty formidable.

unifiedtheory
12-03-2005, 04:25 PM
Has to be tough to be an Oakland fan, they just never keep good players. However, they develop some awesome talent for the bigger market teams thats for sure.

It will continue to be this way until they either get a new ballpark or move.

I'm in favour of both. I don't live in Oakland so if the A's move to the Moon I'd still be a diehard fan.

unifiedtheory
12-03-2005, 04:25 PM
I'm sure the Red Sox will be in the bidding for Zito. I know for a fact that Beane likes both Kevin Youkilis and Abe Alvarez. Maybe if we throw in those two and possibly Kelly Shoppach or Brandan Moss it could possibly be enough?

Although I can see Beane either resigning him (which he said he would try to do in the paper today) or trading him to an NL team like he did with Hudson and Mulder.

The Greek God of walks...:lol:

unifiedtheory
12-03-2005, 04:28 PM
I forgot the Loaiza signing. That, not the Tom Gordon pickup, was the worst move of the offseason.

I like Zito well enough, as long as Omar Minaya, if he makes a deal, recognizes that Zito is basically a younger, slightly better version of Steve Trachsel, and not the superstar he was in 2002.

If Zito became a Met I expect a 20 win/ERA in the mid to low three's season. Rick Peterson knows how to get the BEST out of him.

RWhitney014
12-03-2005, 05:23 PM
I'm sure the Red Sox will be in the bidding for Zito. I know for a fact that Beane likes both Kevin Youkilis and Abe Alvarez. Maybe if we throw in those two and possibly Kelly Shoppach or Brandan Moss it could possibly be enough?

Although I can see Beane either resigning him (which he said he would try to do in the paper today) or trading him to an NL team like he did with Hudson and Mulder.

It won't be Kelly Shoppach. The A's have Kendall for now and then Daric Barton, whom they acquired from STL in the Mulder deal. He is supposedly a Moneyball monster.

unifiedtheory
12-03-2005, 06:49 PM
It won't be Kelly Shoppach. The A's have Kendall for now and then Daric Barton, whom they acquired from STL in the Mulder deal. He is supposedly a Moneyball monster.

Barton is going to be a first baseman in the Bigs.

Ray Finkle
12-03-2005, 07:17 PM
It won't be Kelly Shoppach. The A's have Kendall for now and then Daric Barton, whom they acquired from STL in the Mulder deal. He is supposedly a Moneyball monster.

I was just throwing his name out there. I didn't know if the A's had any catching prospects in the minor leagues. I know Oakland needs bats and Shoppach has some power (when he makes contact with the ball).

Clark Kent
12-03-2005, 11:16 PM
I'm sure the Red Sox will be in the bidding for Zito. I know for a fact that Beane likes both Kevin Youkilis and Abe Alvarez. Maybe if we throw in those two and possibly Kelly Shoppach or Brandan Moss it could possibly be enough?

Although I can see Beane either resigning him (which he said he would try to do in the paper today) or trading him to an NL team like he did with Hudson and Mulder.I would love Zito, if anyone remembers I wanted him long before he caught on fire this year.

Ray Finkle
12-04-2005, 01:51 PM
I would love Zito, if anyone remembers I wanted him long before he caught on fire this year.

Me too. Young lefty (27 or 28?) with tons of potential and former Cy Young winner. Sign me up too.

phunwin
12-05-2005, 02:47 PM
If Zito became a Met I expect a 20 win/ERA in the mid to low three's season. Rick Peterson knows how to get the BEST out of him.

The statistical evidence certainly supports such a conclusion. Zito's been a much better pitcher pre-2003 than after it, and that was when Peterson left to take the Mets job. As I said, for the last three years, he's basically been a better, more healthier version of Steve Trachsel.