PDA

View Full Version : Ouch US seed in the group of death



Amars
12-09-2005, 05:19 PM
Italy, Ghana, Czech

ChambersWI
12-09-2005, 05:21 PM
and to add insult to injury we're the 3rd seed.

Not impossible, but I'd be happy if we make it to the 2nd round.

Phin19
12-09-2005, 06:21 PM
US is toast, already

BAMAPHIN 22
12-09-2005, 06:49 PM
US is toast, already

Are those teams that much better than the U.S. ???

Phin19
12-09-2005, 07:18 PM
Are those teams that much better than the U.S. ???

well, US does have a shot but it`s gonna be real hard. Italy is a super power and Czesc R. has been playing pretty good and Ghana is no joke. . .
granted this US soccer team is perhaps the best of all time, so who knows, everything can happen.

Amars
12-09-2005, 07:33 PM
all the team are good. So anyone can win. The other group have some weak teams. These teams are all playoffs contenders

unifiedtheory
12-09-2005, 09:06 PM
Italy, Ghana, Czech

You beat Ghana and go home after the prelim's....thanks for coming.

KTownsDolphins
12-09-2005, 09:24 PM
USA won't beat the Czech Republic, they should have won Euro 2004, but were unlucky. The Czechs outplayed Greece but just couldn't by a goal and greece got a lucky goal to win.

There is a reason why the Czechs are ranked #2 in the world, they've only lost like 3 games in the past 3 years.

Will be a short tourny for the USA. Main reason, USA only has one good country to play against and that is Mexico. Every other team in North America sucks.


GO CZECH REPUBLIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was born there and have lots of family still there

Phin19
12-09-2005, 10:40 PM
USA won't beat the Czech Republic, they should have won Euro 2004, but were unlucky. The Czechs outplayed Greece but just couldn't by a goal and greece got a lucky goal to win.

There is a reason why the Czechs are ranked #2 in the world, they've only lost like 3 games in the past 3 years.

Will be a short tourny for the USA. Main reason, USA only has one good country to play against and that is Mexico. Every other team in North America sucks.


GO CZECH REPUBLIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was born there and have lots of family still there

vey true, I still can`t believe that Greece won the eurocup. Czech Republic was playing great, They should`ve been champions.

Prime Time
12-09-2005, 10:54 PM
Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda. If you don't win the game THEN you don't win. Greece WON and they earned it. You don't deserve anything in soccer. I say the word "deserve" alot but If you think about it like I do at times, ALMOST noone DESERVES anything...you have to EARN it.

People are already writing USA off, what a surprise...:rolleyes:

US will be at the World Cup and are pretty damn healthy. The GK is among the Top 10 in the World. I doubt Kasey Keller will play as good as the Brad Friedel of 2002...but Keller should have a great WC, especially since this will most likely be his last. Reyna needs to show up and stay healthy and play like he is capable of playing if the US is to go far. Donovan and Beasley are locks. The Defense can play well (with a mixture of guys back there), but they like Reyna, must remain healthy. Sanneh, Pope, Mastroeni, Bocanegra, Hejduk, Gibbs (from Ft. Lauderdale!)....so many. The forwards will most likely include McBride, Johnson, Wolff and maybe someone else. I consider Donovan an attacking mid who is moved up to forward at times.

I doubt US will see Mathis play at the World Cup (although everyone loved him in 02 for the mohawk he brought us). I doubt we see much of Wolff If he goes, but I am rooting for him. And I hope Armas doesn't get much playing time. I like him as a person, but as a player, I don't think he does much....

Amars
12-09-2005, 11:32 PM
GO USA. Its either US or the Czech

phunwin
12-10-2005, 12:35 AM
Lousy draw for the USA. This draw is crap. How do you stick 3 of the top 10 teams in the world in the same group?

That said, it's funny to hear the Canucks talk smack, seeing as how Canada is seeded in Group...wait a sec, trying to find it........ :lol:

Prime Time
12-10-2005, 01:35 AM
Lousy draw for the USA. This draw is crap. How do you stick 3 of the top 10 teams in the world in the same group?

That said, it's funny to hear the Canucks talk smack, seeing as how Canada is seeded in Group...wait a sec, trying to find it........ :lol:

:roflmao:

KTownsDolphins
12-10-2005, 03:38 AM
Lousy draw for the USA. This draw is crap. How do you stick 3 of the top 10 teams in the world in the same group?

That said, it's funny to hear the Canucks talk smack, seeing as how Canada is seeded in Group...wait a sec, trying to find it........ :lol:

Canada talk smack, I was born in the Czech Republic, 10,000,000 people in that country and there ranked #2 in the world not to mention there a power house in hockey as well.

We don't have 250 million people to choose from. We have passion and love for the sport, every kid plays hockey or soccer there, as least I did growing up.

I have a dual citizenship don't run your mouth till u know all please.

unifiedtheory
12-10-2005, 04:20 AM
Lousy draw for the USA. This draw is crap. How do you stick 3 of the top 10 teams in the world in the same group?

That said, it's funny to hear the Canucks talk smack, seeing as how Canada is seeded in Group...wait a sec, trying to find it........ :lol:

Don't RECALL talking smack....:shakeno:

I was OBJECTIVELY commenting that the US is in a tough group and has little or no chance of getting out of the pre-lims.

Commenting on the state of soccer Canada is a non-issue...no funding, no decent professional league equates to being ranked in the mid 80's in the World even though every kid in this country plays soccer into their teens....it is a TOTAL joke.

Every year their is a "Group of Death" and this year is no different. 2002 Group "F" consisted of Argentina, England, Sweden and Nigeria.

Incidentially, my Father's entire side of the family are Croatian, born and raised so I have Croatian blood...they have a damn good chance of advancing into the round of 16.

Jimmy James
12-10-2005, 01:20 PM
If you ask me, this is hardly the "group of death".

I think groups C and F are clearly harder. Imagine the United States replacing Serbia-Montenegro or Ivory Coast in C or replacing Australia in group F.

Group E is going to come down to that game between the US and the Czech Republic. I like both of them to lose to Italy, and I think both will probably beat Ghana even though Ghana is an up and coming team.

The US really got screwed in that they should be where Mexico is. I don't get the process they use for seeding at all. If I have it right, this has something to do with finish in 1998 even though the US beat Mexico in 2002.

QB2RonnieTD23
12-10-2005, 01:25 PM
Yeah this is bad news. The little bit of Soccer fan i have in me is now being crushed by the fact that the US team has literally no chance of getting anywhere past 2 wins in the World Cup. Sad because i think despite having Soccer rammed down are throat for 30 years and refusing to swallow it, i'm willing to bet had the US team taken by suprise and done real well then people would have watched. I cant see it happening now.....

Prime Time
12-10-2005, 03:30 PM
If you ask me, this is hardly the "group of death".

I think groups C and F are clearly harder. Imagine the United States replacing Serbia-Montenegro or Ivory Coast in C or replacing Australia in group F.

Group E is going to come down to that game between the US and the Czech Republic. I like both of them to lose to Italy, and I think both will probably beat Ghana even though Ghana is an up and coming team.

The US really got screwed in that they should be where Mexico is. I don't get the process they use for seeding at all. If I have it right, this has something to do with finish in 1998 even though the US beat Mexico in 2002.

Not a chance. Group E is clearly the Group of Death. 3 of the top 12 teams are in the group. I agree the other two groups are difficult but do you honestly expect to think Croatia or Japan or Australia can beat Brazil??

Also, Mexico will dominate the group stage (or they should) and their fans will be yelling WC Title all over the place. Wait until they get into the Knock-out stage. That is when we will see how good Mexico really is.

Prime Time
12-10-2005, 03:38 PM
Yeah this is bad news. The little bit of Soccer fan i have in me is now being crushed by the fact that the US team has literally no chance of getting anywhere past 2 wins in the World Cup. Sad because i think despite having Soccer rammed down are throat for 30 years and refusing to swallow it, i'm willing to bet had the US team taken by suprise and done real well then people would have watched. I cant see it happening now.....

Didn't really understand what you were trying to say...but US made a surprising run in 02 and noone seemed to care.

unifiedtheory
12-10-2005, 03:57 PM
If you ask me, this is hardly the "group of death".

I think groups C and F are clearly harder. Imagine the United States replacing Serbia-Montenegro or Ivory Coast in C or replacing Australia in group F.

Group E is going to come down to that game between the US and the Czech Republic. I like both of them to lose to Italy, and I think both will probably beat Ghana even though Ghana is an up and coming team.

The US really got screwed in that they should be where Mexico is. I don't get the process they use for seeding at all. If I have it right, this has something to do with finish in 1998 even though the US beat Mexico in 2002.

If you took the USA and added them to almost any group (besides G and H) it would make it the strongest group.

Group "E" in my opinion all comes down to Italy vs. USA. The Czech's are the class of the group.

Looking at all the groups I've come to a few VERY early conclusions:

Group "E" will have a very good team (Italy, USA) set home after the prelims.

A few teams (England, France, Germany and Spain) will have easy roads to the round of 16. They will all win their groups...and should do so with ease.

The 2nd place finishers in groups C, D and E will have very tough round of 16 matches. A bunch of teams ranked in the top 10 could be matched up together in the round of 16. That will create some very good games.

I think the most balanced groups (hardest) are:
1.) E
2.) D
3.) F

I judge this by the strength of the 3rd team in the group. Sure group "C" is VERY strong at the top but the 3rd and 4th ranked teams have no chance.

Jimmy James
12-10-2005, 04:51 PM
Not a chance. Group E is clearly the Group of Death. 3 of the top 12 teams are in the group. I agree the other two groups are difficult but do you honestly expect to think Croatia or Japan or Australia can beat Brazil??

I should be clear: as they are now, I can see the argument for E as the group of death. What I'm saying is that it would have been worse for the US -- that the group they're in is not the worst case scenario. They'd be totally screwed if they were in those other two groups whereas the road is just extremely difficult in this group.

wpgfishfan
12-10-2005, 09:42 PM
Not a chance. Group E is clearly the Group of Death. 3 of the top 12 teams are in the group. I agree the other two groups are difficult but do you honestly expect to think Croatia or Japan or Australia can beat Brazil??

Also, Mexico will dominate the group stage (or they should) and their fans will be yelling WC Title all over the place. Wait until they get into the Knock-out stage. That is when we will see how good Mexico really is.

First of all this thread needs to be merged

Secondly you need to win this division as whoever finishes second will play Brazil (the class of the world right now) in the round of 16

Thirdly when you talk about soccer most people go to their roots as most of us have immigrated or our parents our grandparents did. In European culture soccer is very important and you usually see most people cheer for their heritage over their new country. I cheer for Canada in everything except for soccer where I still follow the Azzurri

Fourthly (is this a word) does K-Town know if Nedved is playing in the World Cup. I read that he has not decided if he will play or not

ScottishFin
12-11-2005, 07:07 AM
US will finish 2nd behind the Czech Republic. Italy are terrible IMO , we played them twice and drew 1-1 and lost 2-0 in Milan and were never outclassed and we were really bad at that time (clightly less bad now :))

Brazil will hose you though , best team in the world bar none.

TBH as long as england dont win it i dont give a monkeys :D

Mon the T&T , would love for Jason Scotland to score against the scummers

FinsAreLife
12-11-2005, 11:12 AM
Are those teams that much better than the U.S. ???



Italy- yes deffiently, but i think we might be able to pull a big upset in that one

Czech Republic- two years ago no, but now they are much improved and look good, this one will be a tough battle


Ghana- inexperienced in world cup play, there not better then us but they are a sleeper and probably will upset someone, my hope is that its italy and which would help us if we can beat italy and ghana

Prime Time
12-11-2005, 12:03 PM
I should be clear: as they are now, I can see the argument for E as the group of death. What I'm saying is that it would have been worse for the US -- that the group they're in is not the worst case scenario. They'd be totally screwed if they were in those other two groups whereas the road is just extremely difficult in this group.

Okay I got you. I understand now. Yeah they would be in BIG trouble had they been drawn into one of those groups. But it's okay this group is doable.

Prime Time
12-11-2005, 12:08 PM
Italy will be the 2002 Argentina of this World Cup. I can already see it. Del Piero, Totti and Vieri are an amazing trio but I don't see them passing the Group Stage. Italy plays very defensive soccer (and some people think its "boring" soccer). I don't mind it, because Soccer is Soccer. You use your own tactics to win. But for this reason I think US will win. They will attack constantly with Donovan and Beasley and McBride will be there in the middle for the headers.

wpgfishfan
12-11-2005, 12:31 PM
Italy will be the 2002 Argentina of this World Cup. I can already see it. Del Piero, Totti and Vieri are an amazing trio but I don't see them passing the Group Stage. Italy plays very defensive soccer (and some people think its "boring" soccer). I don't mind it, because Soccer is Soccer. You use your own tactics to win. But for this reason I think US will win. They will attack constantly with Donovan and Beasley and McBride will be there in the middle for the headers.

This is the second time you brought up Vieri. I still like him but he might not even make the team. Italy will rely on Luca Toni.

Prime Time
12-11-2005, 03:12 PM
This is the second time you brought up Vieri. I still like him but he might not even make the team. Italy will rely on Luca Toni.

Vieri will be there.

KTownsDolphins
12-11-2005, 03:42 PM
If you ask me, this is hardly the "group of death".

I think groups C and F are clearly harder. Imagine the United States replacing Serbia-Montenegro or Ivory Coast in C or replacing Australia in group F.

Group E is going to come down to that game between the US and the Czech Republic. I like both of them to lose to Italy, and I think both will probably beat Ghana even though Ghana is an up and coming team.

The US really got screwed in that they should be where Mexico is. I don't get the process they use for seeding at all. If I have it right, this has something to do with finish in 1998 even though the US beat Mexico in 2002.


I think the Czechs can go undefeated in this group.

In Euro 2004, if you all remember the Czechs came down from 2-0 to beat Holland 3-2. In soccer 2-0 is like 28-0 in football at the half it not more.

Not to mention the Czechs beat Germany with there B team resting 6 starters in Euro 2004 as well. I'm glad the rest of the world thinks the Italians are the team to beat in this group. The Czechs aren't ranked #2 in the world for nothing.

Yes we did lose to Holland twice in qualifying, main reason Koller and Nedved were not playing. Koller will be healthy for hte world cup. Nedved is playing again, who was the european footballer of the year in 2003. nedved controls that midfield and the Czechs will be tough every game.

But that being said its one game and if you don't bring your A game each game then u may be going home early.

Prime Time
12-11-2005, 08:24 PM
You bring your A game every game. It is the World Cup, you may not get another chance like this...

And Czech is good, but their win over Germany was nothing special. Germany is expected to do bad this WC because of their bad play as of late. Germany has been horrible lately....they are lucky they got into an easy group.

Quelonio
12-12-2005, 04:51 AM
I think that we all overrate Germany and Italy, yes they are superpowers, but italy went out in the first round of the Euro, they have been a while without doing anything.

US has a good chance to win this one. But I can promise you that the US-Italy game is going to be one of the mos boring games in history...

phunwin
12-12-2005, 08:59 AM
If we got Italy in the first game, we could pull the upset. The Italians ALWAYS start slow. But we got them in the second, which is just another strike against the USA. And, as noted above, the 2nd place team almost certainly plays Brazil in round 2. So even if we get out of the group stage, it's likely to be a short World Cup for the USA.

Prime Time
12-12-2005, 11:25 AM
Everyone is writing the Americans off, just like at the last World Cup......

US was written off against Portugal...they won. They can do it. Will they? We will see.

And yes Germany is overrated. They are expected to do bad for being hosts, they were expected to not even get out of the Group Stage, but they got into an easy group.

dominizzo
12-12-2005, 12:38 PM
Italia will win the world cup Italy is amazing proud of my country

Prime Time
12-12-2005, 12:59 PM
Italia will win the world cup Italy is amazing proud of my country

:roflmao:

wpgfishfan
12-12-2005, 08:52 PM
If we got Italy in the first game, we could pull the upset. The Italians ALWAYS start slow. But we got them in the second, which is just another strike against the USA. And, as noted above, the 2nd place team almost certainly plays Brazil in round 2. So even if we get out of the group stage, it's likely to be a short World Cup for the USA.

Not sure of who plays who but I'm pretty sure Italy's first game is versus Ghana

dominizzo
12-13-2005, 06:28 AM
:roflmao:


hahahahhahaah USa will win ahhahahahahah:shakeno:

phunwin
12-13-2005, 09:51 AM
Not sure of who plays who but I'm pretty sure Italy's first game is versus Ghana

I believe you're right. The best hope for the US is that Italy wins, but sleepwalks through that game, and it carries over to the next one.

On the upside, I have the Portugal and Mexico games from the 2002 Cup recorded, so I can just watch those as soon as we go out.

Prime Time
12-13-2005, 01:13 PM
hahahahhahaah USa will win ahhahahahahah:shakeno:

When did I say that??? :rolleyes:

Mebeverine
12-13-2005, 03:30 PM
All thsis tuff about "three top 10 teams in the same group"...

The FIFA World Rankings are a load of crap.

http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/news/fifa.html

those are the latest rankings and the way they are worked doesn't take in to account strength of opposition. The seedings that FIFA give are much more realistic in terms of how good a team is.

For example, if you think England should be ranked below America and Mexico then you need your head examined.

I'd say the top 10, in terms of actual ability looks something like this

Brazil
Argentina
England
Italy
Holland
Spain
Czech Republic
France
Portugal
Germany


And then after them you have teams like Sweden, Poland, USA, Mexico etc who I think are on a similar level. I presume Ivory Coast are up there as well, but I haven't seen them play.

THE USA's best chance is that the Czech Republic don't qualify; I say that because I can't see Baros scoring as many as he did in Euro 2004, and Koller is a waste of space. That said, you have to find a way to get the ball past Petr Cech.

For me Italy are as good as through, they are a far better drilled team this time round and Luca Toni could make himself into a star.

Ghana will be tough. very tough.

wpgfishfan
12-13-2005, 04:29 PM
For me Italy are as good as through, they are a far better drilled team this time round and Luca Toni could make himself into a star.

I hope you are right and I hope Vieri does not even make the team. Luca Toni will shine as we will finally have a quality striker


As for your rankings I believe the USA should be around 20 but we can't blame them for who they play. The Gold Cup is not thought of highly enough. Maybe the rest of the world should have a touney the same year as Euro happens then we can see the USA play the Brazil, Argentina and some Asian and African countries

Prime Time
12-13-2005, 11:04 PM
The FIFA Rankings are pretty crappy but hey they are there. So I will go by them. Italy is nowhere near as good as through. They choke almost as much as Spain but don't take as much heat as Spain. And Germany a Top 10 Team? :nono:

wpgfishfan
12-13-2005, 11:12 PM
The FIFA Rankings are pretty crappy but hey they are there. So I will go by them. Italy is nowhere near as good as through. They choke almost as much as Spain but don't take as much heat as Spain. And Germany a Top 10 Team? :nono:

Italy is ranked 12 which means they should finish 3rd in a group with the #2 and #8 team. I say they finish top 2 which means they do better than their ranking

I think the ranking that is off is France. They have been terrible for 4 years now but they luck out in an easy group so they will advance and probably keep their ranking

Prime Time
12-13-2005, 11:17 PM
France > Italy

Italy chokes 24/7....like American Football any team can beat any team at any point. I like a lot of Italian Players. My ancestors (WAY WAY BACK) were Italian. Your opinion will differ from mines on how teams will be ranked so the only way to go is FIFA's Rankings (which is BS but it is the closest thing to accurate)....

Roman529
12-14-2005, 12:23 AM
I lived in Verona, Italy from 1971-1975 and I got to see Juventus and Lazio play so I am gonna pull for the Azzurri if the USA doesn't make. :)

KTownsDolphins
12-14-2005, 02:40 AM
All thsis tuff about "three top 10 teams in the same group"...

The FIFA World Rankings are a load of crap.

http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/news/fifa.html

those are the latest rankings and the way they are worked doesn't take in to account strength of opposition. The seedings that FIFA give are much more realistic in terms of how good a team is.

For example, if you think England should be ranked below America and Mexico then you need your head examined.

I'd say the top 10, in terms of actual ability looks something like this

Brazil
Argentina
England
Italy
Holland
Spain
Czech Republic
France
Portugal
Germany


And then after them you have teams like Sweden, Poland, USA, Mexico etc who I think are on a similar level. I presume Ivory Coast are up there as well, but I haven't seen them play.

THE USA's best chance is that the Czech Republic don't qualify; I say that because I can't see Baros scoring as many as he did in Euro 2004, and Koller is a waste of space. That said, you have to find a way to get the ball past Petr Cech.

For me Italy are as good as through, they are a far better drilled team this time round and Luca Toni could make himself into a star.

Ghana will be tough. very tough.
You forgot Nedved is back, and Rocisky and Nedved are one of the two better midfielders that play in europe.

The Czech's are a strong team. I doubt koller is a waste of space there is a reason he is on Borutia dortmund in germany who played a long time with out losing a game.

He's a good player and creates space for Baros, The Czechs will surprise like they did in Euro 2004.

KTownsDolphins
12-14-2005, 02:45 AM
Italy is ranked 12 which means they should finish 3rd in a group with the #2 and #8 team. I say they finish top 2 which means they do better than their ranking

I think the ranking that is off is France. They have been terrible for 4 years now but they luck out in an easy group so they will advance and probably keep their ranking

Last game Between italy and the Czechs I believe was a draw 1-1 in Italy.


The Czechs got major FIFA points for there impressive play in Euro 2004. They also had a long stretch of not losing a game.

The Czechs and Italians should lock up this group after there first 2 games. when they both go 2-0-0. Which would make the last game very interesting because the loser most likely will end up playing Brazil in the round of 16, while the winner would end up going to the other side of the bracket and playing a much easier game against Croatia and have no chance of meeting Brazil unless its in the final.

Winning this group is critical.

Prime Time
12-14-2005, 12:57 PM
Last game Between italy and the Czechs I believe was a draw 1-1 in Italy.


The Czechs got major FIFA points for there impressive play in Euro 2004. They also had a long stretch of not losing a game.

The Czechs and Italians should lock up this group after there first 2 games. when they both go 2-0-0. Which would make the last game very interesting because the loser most likely will end up playing Brazil in the round of 16, while the winner would end up going to the other side of the bracket and playing a much easier game against Croatia and have no chance of meeting Brazil unless its in the final.

Winning this group is critical.

Yes because these teams are going to walk all over the US...:rolleyes:

KTownsDolphins
12-14-2005, 03:24 PM
Yes because these teams are going to walk all over the US...:rolleyes:


I honestly think Ghana is going to be a tougher competition for the Czechs. If the Czechs win this group I see no reason why they can't make the semi finals. If they come in second then yah the exit for the round of 16 will be inevitable facing the Brazilians.

I've seen the Czechs play and yes they didn't look good against Netherlands last time out, however Nedved wasn't playing and neither was Koller. With Nedved in the midfield the Czechs seem to play a lot better. He controls the flow of the game. He's a big contributing factor playing for Juventus normally.

I never said the states would be a cake walk, I just don't think there as skilled as the Italians or the Czechs from what I've seen. The americans play one tough team in Mexico. CONCACAF is terrible, and when they do play countries of significance they play them in friendly's and we all know friendly's usually don't have the top stars as they want to avoid injury.

We'll see June 12, when the Czechs play the USA in the opening match.

Pink_Dove
12-14-2005, 04:33 PM
:confused: Has any one actually seen Ghana play ?

All I'm reading is that the 'Black stars' will be very tough, even tougher than the U.S. But I don't see anyone up front that can finish against quality teams.
Essien, Appiah, Kuffour are all quality players but apart from that it's mostly young players playing in Ghana.

Also I'd like to point out, they did finish first in their group in qualifying but they did benefit from playing in the weakest group african group (with only SA a legitimate threat)

Prime Time
12-14-2005, 04:54 PM
I honestly think Ghana is going to be a tougher competition for the Czechs. If the Czechs win this group I see no reason why they can't make the semi finals. If they come in second then yah the exit for the round of 16 will be inevitable facing the Brazilians.

I've seen the Czechs play and yes they didn't look good against Netherlands last time out, however Nedved wasn't playing and neither was Koller. With Nedved in the midfield the Czechs seem to play a lot better. He controls the flow of the game. He's a big contributing factor playing for Juventus normally.

I never said the states would be a cake walk, I just don't think there as skilled as the Italians or the Czechs from what I've seen. The americans play one tough team in Mexico. CONCACAF is terrible, and when they do play countries of significance they play them in friendly's and we all know friendly's usually don't have the top stars as they want to avoid injury.

We'll see June 12, when the Czechs play the USA in the opening match.

Here is a question for you...do you think the 2002 WC Squad was better then the 2002 Portugal WC Squad. I bet you don't and guess what US beat Portugal 3-2...

Czech will qualify I agree (although I do not think they are as good as some people say but thats my opnion) and Italy is very OVERRATED. The have an outstanding defense but they lack a creative midfielder, like a Riquelme or Zidane or Beasley or Nedved. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Italy will be this World Cup's Argentina.

wpgfishfan
12-14-2005, 05:27 PM
Here is a question for you...do you think the 2002 WC Squad was better then the 2002 Portugal WC Squad. I bet you don't and guess what US beat Portugal 3-2...

Czech will qualify I agree (although I do not think they are as good as some people say but thats my opnion) and Italy is very OVERRATED. The have an outstanding defense but they lack a creative midfielder, like a Riquelme or Zidane or Beasley or Nedved. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Italy will be this World Cup's Argentina.

So you have Czech's first, USA second and is little old Italy gonna be 3rd or 4th??

Any team can beat any team in soccer. It is the one sport where luck and reffing have a huge influence on the game.

KTownsDolphins
12-14-2005, 09:28 PM
So you have Czech's first, USA second and is little old Italy gonna be 3rd or 4th??

Any team can beat any team in soccer. It is the one sport where luck and reffing have a huge influence on the game.


If you don't finish first in this group you might as well go home, second place will buy you a round of 16 match against Brazil,

This group is tough, and it's even tougher now that you basically have to win it to give yourself a good shot.

Prime Time
12-14-2005, 11:52 PM
Italy will fall in 3rd If not 4th...Mark my words.

wpgfishfan
12-15-2005, 06:53 PM
Italy will fall in 3rd If not 4th...Mark my words.

Let's agree to disagree

We should organize some sort of World Cup tourney, kind of like March Madness come next June

NY_FinFan_72
12-15-2005, 07:26 PM
I'm an Italian citizen, born in Naples, Italy, 1972... however, I was born at an American Naval Base Hospital, so I am also a US Citizen...

When the World Cup Seedings came out, I knew I was gonna be torn.

I followed Italy for Soccer growing up, cuz the US team sucked, and I was "Italian".

But the US Team has really come on the last 10 years which I've enjoyed watching.

So yeah, I'm torn. Being a fan of both teams really, and being a citizen of both countries, I'm stuck.

I think I'm gonna just watch and try to not root one way or the other until round one is over. I'm gonna wuss out and just root for the team that goes the farthest (probably Italy).

wpgfishfan
12-15-2005, 10:19 PM
I'm an Italian citizen, born in Naples, Italy, 1972... however, I was born at an American Naval Base Hospital, so I am also a US Citizen...

When the World Cup Seedings came out, I knew I was gonna be torn.

I followed Italy for Soccer growing up, cuz the US team sucked, and I was "Italian".

But the US Team has really come on the last 10 years which I've enjoyed watching.

So yeah, I'm torn. Being a fan of both teams really, and being a citizen of both countries, I'm stuck.

I think I'm gonna just watch and try to not root one way or the other until round one is over. I'm gonna wuss out and just root for the team that goes the farthest (probably Italy).


Were you a Napoli fan back in the day??

Prime Time
12-17-2005, 10:25 AM
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=352324&cc=5901

Australia and the Oceania teams would get royally screwed over IMO....

Roman529
12-17-2005, 02:00 PM
Were you a Napoli fan back in the day??

I lived in Italy from 1971-1975...in Verona....they never had much of a team but I have always liked ChievoVerona. I also have always been a big Juventus fan. Nobody goes as crazy as the Italians on game day.....much crazier than most Americans over "football." Once you start following soccer and you realize all the skills and strategy you become a fan for life.

Prime Time
12-17-2005, 04:20 PM
I lived in Italy from 1971-1975...in Verona....they never had much of a team but I have always liked ChievoVerona. I also have always been a big Juventus fan. Nobody goes as crazy as the Italians on game day.....much crazier than most Americans over "football." Once you start following soccer and you realize all the skills and strategy you become a fan for life.

I think Brazilians, English (England), and Mexicans to name a few have fans who go crazier on Game Day. I also agree with your last sentence :up:

Mebeverine
12-25-2005, 09:16 AM
How can you compare the current Italy team to the old one?

Most of the old players who went to pieces in major tounaments are gone.

No creative players? Pirlo, Totti...

They still have a rock solid defense, plus this time round they have hungy, fresh players like Gilardino, Pirlo, Barzagli, De Rossi, Toni etc etc.

Prime Time: name your price on Italy not going through. I'll match whatever you put up because it's easy money. that's not to say I don't think the US are any good, I just think they've been dealt a tough hand AND I think they are slightly over-rated from what I've seen of them.


doubt koller is a waste of space there is a reason he is on Borutia dortmund in germany who played a long time with out losing a game

Have you seen how crap the Bundesliga is? Have you seen how crap Koller is?!

Prime Time
12-25-2005, 01:40 PM
How can you compare the current Italy team to the old one?

Most of the old players who went to pieces in major tounaments are gone.

No creative players? Pirlo, Totti...

They still have a rock solid defense, plus this time round they have hungy, fresh players like Gilardino, Pirlo, Barzagli, De Rossi, Toni etc etc.

Prime Time: name your price on Italy not going through. I'll match whatever you put up because it's easy money. that's not to say I don't think the US are any good, I just think they've been dealt a tough hand AND I think they are slightly over-rated from what I've seen of them.



Have you seen how crap the Bundesliga is? Have you seen how crap Koller is?!

That sounds like a good bet. But I don't want to make it money, lets make it something on FH. The statement you made about the young fresh players, who are hungry to play...that statement can be made more half of the World Cup Teams coming. And yes they may be hungry, but they are inexperienced in WC play. Italy is a good team don't get me wrong. They just aren't great. And I think there Defensive Minded soccer will cost them early.

Quelonio
12-26-2005, 04:09 PM
. And I think there Defensive Minded soccer will cost them early.

Yet you are a fan of US soccer, whose play is darn similar to the Italian style of soccer, always back, never moving the ball, always giving the ball back and waiting for a hole to open....

Defensive soccer seems to be incredibly effective, tell me of one overtly offensive team that has really put it together lately. The argentinian team directed by Bielsa was famous for never proposing anything, but taking what the other team gave them (i don't know if this has changed with Peckerman at all), Brazil would always loose when they had the more open and fantastic schemes, it was not until Parreira (who is a damn boring coach) came in in 94 that they started winning again (and in the process they gave us the most boring world cup finals ever, even worse than the 1990 which was damn bad). I mean France won in 98 with a 5-4-1, remember? they went for games at a time without a single score by any of their forwards.

Look at 02, the four guys in the semifinals Brazil that was playing with 3 Central defenders, and although granted they did have the two side defenders going up often, they still had two dfensive midfielders, so they where not exactly the most offensive team in the WC (probably Senegal was a little more than anyone else) actually I remember that a lot of people where talking about how they had a very mediocre play until they actually won. they where more effective than offensive.

Germany got lucky, great play by their goalkeeper and by Ballack (the only guy on that team worth a damn) and lucky draws and they got up there, but certainly not through good offensive play.

Turkey only got back there because Rustu Reckber had a great WC (which lead to him being a dissappointment in Barcelona) and because they had a tough defensive team, which allowed them to put things up with indiray basturk and have that bald guy (hassan sas i think) and the other tall FW just put in one and then wait.

Korea cheated... Plain and blatantly cheated. I have nothing to say about this team, because it was so damn overt it was embarassing for worldwide soccer, they cheated and that is it....

So my point being that the italian catennaccio is never going to bite them int he ***. THeir talent level might, but I think that this group of youngsters is indeed hungry since they have dissappointed a lot. So they are more than ready to come up big... Plus the WC is in Europe, and that will make a difference one that will favor the european countries, I am afraid that this one will go very normal, Czech republic, and Italy will pass, US and Ghana will have a tough one, if anything Ghana will do well especially since they are the only team there that plays a different stile (kinda like having 3 3-4 defenses in one division and one 4-3, the 4-3 might surprise if only because no one is facing a team like that in the division, also ghana youngsters have always been good, and there is always one African team that rises to the challenge, especially when in fours years it is the first world cup in Africa)

I've spoken too much. ta da

Prime Time
12-26-2005, 05:08 PM
Yet you are a fan of US soccer, whose play is darn similar to the Italian style of soccer, always back, never moving the ball, always giving the ball back and waiting for a hole to open....

Defensive soccer seems to be incredibly effective, tell me of one overtly offensive team that has really put it together lately. The argentinian team directed by Bielsa was famous for never proposing anything, but taking what the other team gave them (i don't know if this has changed with Peckerman at all), Brazil would always loose when they had the more open and fantastic schemes, it was not until Parreira (who is a damn boring coach) came in in 94 that they started winning again (and in the process they gave us the most boring world cup finals ever, even worse than the 1990 which was damn bad). I mean France won in 98 with a 5-4-1, remember? they went for games at a time without a single score by any of their forwards.

Look at 02, the four guys in the semifinals Brazil that was playing with 3 Central defenders, and although granted they did have the two side defenders going up often, they still had two dfensive midfielders, so they where not exactly the most offensive team in the WC (probably Senegal was a little more than anyone else) actually I remember that a lot of people where talking about how they had a very mediocre play until they actually won. they where more effective than offensive.

Germany got lucky, great play by their goalkeeper and by Ballack (the only guy on that team worth a damn) and lucky draws and they got up there, but certainly not through good offensive play.

Turkey only got back there because Rustu Reckber had a great WC (which lead to him being a dissappointment in Barcelona) and because they had a tough defensive team, which allowed them to put things up with indiray basturk and have that bald guy (hassan sas i think) and the other tall FW just put in one and then wait.

Korea cheated... Plain and blatantly cheated. I have nothing to say about this team, because it was so damn overt it was embarassing for worldwide soccer, they cheated and that is it....

So my point being that the italian catennaccio is never going to bite them int he ***. THeir talent level might, but I think that this group of youngsters is indeed hungry since they have dissappointed a lot. So they are more than ready to come up big... Plus the WC is in Europe, and that will make a difference one that will favor the european countries, I am afraid that this one will go very normal, Czech republic, and Italy will pass, US and Ghana will have a tough one, if anything Ghana will do well especially since they are the only team there that plays a different stile (kinda like having 3 3-4 defenses in one division and one 4-3, the 4-3 might surprise if only because no one is facing a team like that in the division, also ghana youngsters have always been good, and there is always one African team that rises to the challenge, especially when in fours years it is the first world cup in Africa)

I've spoken too much. ta da

Brazil's Offense = Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Cafu and Carlos. Enough said. Both Carlos and Cafu attacked.

US doesn't always defend. Depends on their opponent.

Argentina's Offense was good back then, and is considered better now.

I think US will pass and Italy won't. If you want we could make a FH bet?

Quelonio
12-26-2005, 09:08 PM
I'm not really sold with Italy either, but I don't think we have the same US team that beat portugal, their showings in the Gold Cup were actually very weak, and so has been most of their play lately. They don't seem to be very ready.

Having good offensive players does not equate playing offensively, dare I remind you that Italy had Totti, Vieri, Inzaghi, and Del Piero, yet they played how they played. I am giving you that Brazil had those players, but their scheme was not an offensive one.

Prime Time
12-26-2005, 11:29 PM
US hasn't played well lately because they have been missing stars. Pope. Reyna. McBride. They'll be there for the World Cup.

As for the offensive players...you can't tell me Brazil's WC Squad was defensive minded?

Mebeverine
12-31-2005, 10:12 AM
I suppose you could argue that Brazil play a defensive formation. But they aren't defensive minded in any way. As Prime Time points out, their two wing backs are attackers, they have Kaka AND Ronaldinho. They have Ronaldo AND Adriano.

With pace and ability like that you don't need to play an overly attacking formation to score plenty of goals.

PrimeTime: I don't really post on here often so a bet on here is not particularly relevant to me.

Prime Time
12-31-2005, 03:17 PM
PrimeTime: I don't really post on here often so a bet on here is not particularly relevant to me.

:mad:

Prime Time
12-31-2005, 06:03 PM
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=353676&cc=5901

Michael Owen insists he won't miss the World Cup.

wpgfishfan
01-23-2006, 12:07 AM
Primetime your boys could not even beat Canada in a home game today. Your boy London played the whole game and could not put one past the vaunted Canadian defence:lol: