PDA

View Full Version : BREAKING NEWS: Stan Van Gundy is expected to step down



Mephistopheles
12-12-2005, 09:55 AM
MIAMI (AP) -- Miami Heat coach Stan Van Gundy is resigning.

A team official spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision hasn't been revealed publicly. The source told The Associated Press that Van Gundy's decision to resign is because of personal family reasons.

It's not clear who would replace him, but there are indications that former Heat coach Pat Riley could return to the sideline.

The team has called a news conference for 11 a-m, saying Van Gundy, Riley and Heat owner Micky Arison would appear.

Van Gundy led the team to the best record in the Eastern Conference a season ago. But his job status has been the subject of speculation in South Florida for months, starting when Riley said shortly after the Heat's 2005 playoff run ended that he may choose to take a larger role in the team's day-to-day operations.

That comment set off a storm of speculation that Riley was planning to dismiss Van Gundy and take over the team.

The two eventually met in mid-July, with Van Gundy emerging from that session saying he was assured that he'd remain Heat coach.

http://www1.wsvn.com/news/articles/sports/MIA12473/

phunwin
12-12-2005, 10:00 AM
Damn, I had January 7th in the office pool.

Buddwalk
12-12-2005, 10:11 AM
crap i said christmas day :mad:

Section126
12-12-2005, 10:19 AM
I don't like how it was done.....I WANTED Riley to step in before the season started....

But it had to happen....the Guy (Stan Van Gundy) continually gets outcoached and forced to "matchup" with other teams.....WE SHOULD BE THE ONES forcing unfavorable matchups...not reacting to them.

Stan Van Gundy also blew game 7 last year by calling 5 consecutive pick and rolls down the stretch (Shaq squeeled on Stan) and didn't go into shaq down the stretch when he was dominating.

Make no mistake on who stabbed Stan in the back.........SHAQ.

Stan Van Gundy deserves another job...you know..fine...he is not all that great a coach...but he does deserve another job.....

Very dissapointed with Shaq.....he needed to play for the coach that was in place...not lobby and make yourself a pain in the azz.

SHAQ the rat. :lol:

nyjunc
12-12-2005, 10:25 AM
Riley is such trash, he failed w/ this team for years then SV comes in and has success and Riley wants the job back. We knew this would happen when Rilry denied it all offseason. Too bad Heat fans, you had a better chance to win w/ VG.

Alex44
12-12-2005, 10:26 AM
I was about to make a thread on this

I liked stan though....but Pat will win us an NBA title

nyjunc
12-12-2005, 10:31 AM
I was about to make a thread on this

I liked stan though....but Pat will win us an NBA title

Why will pat win you a title? have you paid attention to what he has done post-LA? He had teams good enough to beat Chi and had homecourt and couldn't do it(I'll give him a pass on that since no one beat Chi), then had Jordan away for 2 years and couldn't win a title in NY then took over Miami and only made the conf finals once thanks to half the Knick team being suspended. He was a failure as a HC in Miami and VG resurrected this team and now he's out and Riley's in. You aren't winning a title w/ Riley.

Alex44
12-12-2005, 10:33 AM
Why will pat win you a title? have you paid attention to what he has done post-LA? He had teams good enough to beat Chi and had homecourt and couldn't do it(I'll give him a pass on that since no one beat Chi), then had Jordan away for 2 years and couldn't win a title in NY then took over Miami and only made the conf finals once thanks to half the Knick team being suspended. He was a failure as a HC in Miami and VG resurrected this team and now he's out and Riley's in. You aren't winning a title w/ Riley.


Riley is an all time great coach

In those years no offense to us but we really were over achievers, we were a good team but he got the most out of us,besides we have D.Wade, and Shaq

A monkey could lead us to a title im sure riley can

nyjunc
12-12-2005, 10:35 AM
Riley is an all time great coach

In those years no offense to us but we really were over achievers, we were a good team but he got the most out of us,besides we have D.Wade, and Shaq

A monkey could lead us to a title im sure riley can

Riley is not an all-time great coach, LA won a title before he got there and then 4 w/ him and then made the Finals the year after he left. He was along for the ride in LA.

He was the GM in Miami so if you had "underachievers" it was his fault but after Jordan retired there wasn't a team in the East more talented and he never even made a conf finals during those years.

MikeO
12-12-2005, 10:39 AM
This is all Riley......anyone who believes otherwise is crazy

phunwin
12-12-2005, 10:41 AM
Pat Riley has as many NBA titles without Magic Johnson as I do: zero.

Not saying he's not an all-time great coach, obviously he is, but don't get carried away. Frankly, I think the way Riles is throwing SVG under the bus is shameful. If he was going to do it (and we all knew it was happening at some point), he should have done it after game 7 last year. Instead, he let SVG take all the heat, go through training camp, try to coach a team that was missing it's best player and was trying to integrate half a dozen new parts into the rotation, and use their mediocre start as an excuse.

MikeO
12-12-2005, 10:51 AM
If the HEAT now fall flat on their face....Riley will place the blame on Stan for leaving the team in turmoil on short notice. If the Heat turn into gangbusters now, then it was Stan holding the team back.

Riley is in a no-lose situation.

Prime Time
12-12-2005, 11:15 AM
I heard this early in the morning and this is the first I get to type about it. This has to do with Sgaq and Riley. SVG is a good coach but not a GREAT coach like Riles. Pat is going to lead this team far IMO. SVG is a good coach and a good person and It is sad to see him go but we should be happy because our team improved this year.

Ferretsquig
12-12-2005, 11:20 AM
Really schetchy that he kicks Van Gundy out right when Shaq comes back. Of course the Heat are going to start winning....doesnt really matter what coach is on the sidelines. He is a better coach, Van Gundy is a nice motivator and all.....but in the game he makes too many mistakes.

dominizzo
12-12-2005, 12:39 PM
;) THe Heat need a coach like LArry Bird

Prime Time
12-12-2005, 12:57 PM
That Press Conference was wack....

He said it was for his family...I really do not believe it...

Den54
12-12-2005, 01:39 PM
This is the kiss of death for the Heat guys. As Muck and I once discussed, this is bad karma and will come back to bite hard imo.

TerryTate
12-12-2005, 02:51 PM
I actually believe Stan Van Gundy. However he wouldn't have felt so inclined to step down if the Heat were 19-2. Stan is a very stubborn guy. If he was fired, he would've taken his money and gone elsewhere. Riley said that he was trying to get him to stay for weeks and there were plenty of tears at the press conference.

ohall
12-12-2005, 03:08 PM
I actually believe Stan Van Gundy. However he wouldn't have felt so inclined to step down if the Heat were 19-2. Stan is a very stubborn guy. If he was fired, he would've taken his money and gone elsewhere. Riley said that he was trying to get him to stay for weeks and there were plenty of tears at the press conference.

I honestly believe the man. I also believe the time line they gave us all to swallow. I'm not sure we as fans can really go with anything else than that until further evidence is found out, if ever found out.

For me I'm just glad Riley is back behind the wheel.

backpacker
12-12-2005, 03:09 PM
I actually believe Stan Van Gundy. However he wouldn't have felt so inclined to step down if the Heat were 19-2. Stan is a very stubborn guy. If he was fired, he would've taken his money and gone elsewhere. Riley said that he was trying to get him to stay for weeks and there were plenty of tears at the press conference.

Yeah, also, Van Gundy will be staying with the organization. He is only resigning from the head coaching job, not the team. He would've only seen his family 49 days out of 170 days. So the "family" thing makes sense.

nyjunc
12-12-2005, 03:18 PM
I actually believe Stan Van Gundy. However he wouldn't have felt so inclined to step down if the Heat were 19-2. Stan is a very stubborn guy. If he was fired, he would've taken his money and gone elsewhere. Riley said that he was trying to get him to stay for weeks and there were plenty of tears at the press conference.

Come on Terry, the family excuse was as weak as you can get. All of a sudden after all these years coaching and finally having an opportunity to be a HC and he wants to spend more time w/ his family? This was a firing but they told him he could save face and resign.

TerryTate
12-12-2005, 03:52 PM
Watch the press conference Junc....it's pretty sincere. It's on the heat website.

nyjunc
12-12-2005, 03:57 PM
Watch the press conference Junc....it's pretty sincere. It's on the heat website.

I'll see the highlights tonight, I don't care how sincere it is I will never buy that excuse.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-12-2005, 03:58 PM
I don't think this was firing...yet. I think Stan started to feel pressue and said forget it. If the Heat continued to play the way they have then I think Stan was going to get fired but I don't think him leaving today was him being fired, it was him knowing he would get fired if the team kept playing the way it did so he decided to quit the job now rather then get fired later!

TerryTate
12-12-2005, 04:00 PM
I'll see the highlights tonight, I don't care how sincere it is I will never buy that excuse.

Take the time to watch the PC, it makes a difference. I know what it's like to pick pieces of PCs for a news show. You need to absorb this in full context to make a better opinion.

If Riley forced him out, I would have a hard time believing how loyal stan was to pat if this was the case even today. At times they were fighting back tears.

QB2RonnieTD23
12-12-2005, 04:06 PM
this is breaking news? I've known Van Gundy would step down at the first sign of trouble since last June

Whatsdatson20
12-12-2005, 04:32 PM
Come on Terry, the family excuse was as weak as you can get. All of a sudden after all these years coaching and finally having an opportunity to be a HC and he wants to spend more time w/ his family? This was a firing but they told him he could save face and resign.



Dude if you cant buy someone realizing finally that family is a hundred times more important then a job, you have the problem not stan. A job is cool and all. And yes we need to work to survive. And yes a NBA head coach is great but nothing and i mean nothing is more important then family. One day when your (general term) on your deathbed, and you look up and see that your boss aint there to hold your hand or your money aint either. You will look up to see a family member. Most likely his kids. Money comes and goes, jobs as well. I credit the man for realizing whats more important in life.

Fresh
12-12-2005, 04:44 PM
I was expecting the All-Star break or something, but I am extremely happy about this. Stan's a great guy and a good coach. However, he gets OUTCOACHED too often for my liking, and a fine example would be the series against Detroit last year.

I wish this happened 21 games earlier......

Caps
12-12-2005, 04:45 PM
I really can't believe that this happened. I believe the story they're saying. I think the team just got a lot better because of this, and some of the guys on the team(Shaq, Mourning) are probably happier with Pat on the sidelines. We'll see how this turns out, but I think it's a step forward.

phunwin
12-12-2005, 05:11 PM
Dude if you cant buy someone realizing finally that family is a hundred times more important then a job, you have the problem not stan. A job is cool and all. And yes we need to work to survive. And yes a NBA head coach is great but nothing and i mean nothing is more important then family. One day when your (general term) on your deathbed, and you look up and see that your boss aint there to hold your hand or your money aint either. You will look up to see a family member. Most likely his kids. Money comes and goes, jobs as well. I credit the man for realizing whats more important in life.

This is Public Relations 101: Hide behind the family. It's a convenient excuse and no one will dare call you on it. And sometimes, people will wax poetic on your behalf, calling your decision "noble" and "admirable".

If you can't tell, I don't believe for a second that SVG stepped down voluntarily and no amount of crocodile tears will convince me otherwise.

Whatsdatson20
12-12-2005, 05:15 PM
This is Public Relations 101: Hide behind the family. It's a convenient excuse and no one will dare call you on it. And sometimes, people will wax poetic on your behalf, calling your decision "noble" and "admirable".

If you can't tell, I don't believe for a second that SVG stepped down voluntarily and no amount of crocodile tears will convince me otherwise.


Well the fact of the matter is that this story stands. In a court of law its always the opposers obligation to prove otherwise. Untill SVG's opposers do so, his story stands. You may not belive it for whatever reason i dont know. BUt we must take his word on it till someone proves this story false.

TerryTate
12-12-2005, 06:44 PM
This is Public Relations 101: Hide behind the family. It's a convenient excuse and no one will dare call you on it. And sometimes, people will wax poetic on your behalf, calling your decision "noble" and "admirable".

If you can't tell, I don't believe for a second that SVG stepped down voluntarily and no amount of crocodile tears will convince me otherwise.

Both Riley and SVG should get academy awards for their acting then.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-12-2005, 06:46 PM
I don't think it was an act. As I said before, I think Van Gundy was feeling the pressure and rather then get fired eventually (which he would have IMO), he figured he'd get out quick and save himself and the organization the grief of having to deal with all the questions surrounding Riley taking back over and firing his friend to do so. I'm gonna watch the presser when I get back from the gym. I'll let u know what I think and if it was staged or not!

ChambersWI
12-12-2005, 07:42 PM
IMO another factor for SVG leaving is all the egos.

2 years ago he had Wade,E Jones,C.Butler,Odom,Grant and a bench of Alston,Haslem,R. Butler, and Allen

no one expected them to do well, and there was no pressure.

Last year he had Wade, E Jones, D Jones, Haslem, Shaq with a bench of Dooling, L8, Anderson, Zo(half a year), Doleac, and R Butler.

More pressure because of Shaq and Wade's rookie year, but at the same time his job was easy. Get Shaq the ball, and everybody else will feed off of him. Everybody else on the team let Shaq do his thing, and they played better because of it. Wade also got better as the season moved along. Again he only had to do two things, Get Shaq the ball or let Wade iso his man.

This year (even without Shaq) he had to coach Wade,JWill,Walker,Posey,Haslem, Payton, Kapono, Simien,Doleac,Anderson, and Zo. With Shaq back it would be easier for them, but w/o Shaq SVG would have to find a way to get all these players involved. Missing Doleac and Anderson for the last couple weeks has hurt as well.

IMO the Heat not only needed a player that demands a lot of respect like Shaq back in the line-up, but a coach that has post season credentials, and is not afraid of making changes to line-ups. Riley is better suited to run this team.

IMO
SVG-Teacher, good for young teams searching for an indentity (Heat 2 years ago, Hawks, Raptors, etc.)
Riley-Better suited for veteran teams where all he has to do is call plays

CrunchTime
12-12-2005, 08:01 PM
Riley smells the roses and he wants to be there to pick them up at the end of the year.He knows there is a small window of opportunity ,maybe a couple of years and he wants it.

tucker
12-12-2005, 08:05 PM
this is the team riley wanted so if it fails, its riley's fault..plain and simple

Prime Time
12-12-2005, 08:24 PM
It was an act. How many times did you hear Riles say "I am the best man for this job" or "I want to coach the players I brought in".

That family thing is BS. He is just saving face. Riley told him he was going to be gone and he could save face by re-signing. Riley wants to get credit for Winning the Championship If the Heat win. It is so coincidental how this happened the game after Shaq returned.

This was an act.

FinsNYanksFan13
12-12-2005, 08:49 PM
All I know is this. All you Heat fans should be excited to have Riley. I don't think he would be coming back and putting his integrity on the line if he didn't think he was getting this team to the Finals (farther then the Heat went last year). Riley has always picked and choosed his spots (like Phil Jackson) so something tells me he think he sees something in the Heat that will put them over the top!

Prime Time
12-12-2005, 09:13 PM
Exactly. I am not upset about today, but it is obvious it was an act. Riley will put us over the hump and win us a NBA Title IMO.

finfansince72
12-12-2005, 09:15 PM
I think Van Gundy has taken a lot of undeserved heat :). His fault Wade got hurt last year right? They would have won the East last year if this didnt happen.
Van Gundy got pressured out, theres no question of that. Cmon you would have to be a fool to walk away from a team with Wade and Shaq, along with millions of dollars. The guys been coaching for decades, now all the sudden he is a big family guy? Cmon now, Riley wanted to coach this team, Shaq and the players wanted Riley to coach the team, Van Gundy saw it coming and left.
I think this whole manuever by Riley is pretty shameless. I used to root for this team after my Wizards but Id have a hard time now. Riley has been pushing this for a good year now, if Van Gundy wasnt his friend he would have done this a year or so ago. This is pretty weak IMO.

PHINATIC13
12-12-2005, 09:26 PM
This is all Riley......anyone who believes otherwise is crazy

Bingo! I've always liked Riles(being a Laker fan) but this just doesn't look good.There was rumor about this last year,if they(Riley)was going to make a switch they should've done it prior to the season starting imo.All of a sudden SV decides he needs more family time c'mon.

TerryTate
12-12-2005, 09:32 PM
All I know is this. All you Heat fans should be excited to have Riley. I don't think he would be coming back and putting his integrity on the line if he didn't think he was getting this team to the Finals (farther then the Heat went last year). Riley has always picked and choosed his spots (like Phil Jackson) so something tells me he think he sees something in the Heat that will put them over the top!

Picked his spots?

He was an assistant coach when Paul Westhead was fired in the 1982 season, which gave him his first opportunity. The only place you can argue is that MAYBE he did so in NY, because of Patrick Ewing.

He jumped back into coaching (while fulfilling the role of president) in the 1995/96 season, and had NOTHING. This is what he helped engineer when he got here:

Acquired center Alonzo Mourning, guard/forward Pete Myers and forward/center LeRon Ellis from Charlotte in exchange for guard/forward Glen Rice, guard Khalid Reeves, center Matt Geiger and a first-round draft pick.

Then in early 1996...
In one of the biggest trading days in NBA history, Miami acquired guard Tim Hardaway and forward/center Chris Gatling from Golden State for forward/center Kevin Willis and guard Bimbo Coles. Acquired forward/guard Walt Williams and forward Tyrone Corbin from Sacramento for guard/forward Billy Owens and forward/guard Kevin Gamble. Acquired guard Tony Smith from Phoenix for guard Terrence Rencher.

So he built that team.

He also built this current team as President. This isn't Del Harris being replaced by Phil Jackson. It's ridiculous to say that Pat Riley picks and chooses his spots consistently.

Section126
12-12-2005, 09:47 PM
What doesn't get talked about is the most obvious....

This team has YET to have their starting five start a game this season...

Shaq out for 18 of 21 games.....

Posey missing the first 5 games and then missing bits and pieces of other games with injuries...

J-Will missing 5 games....

Doleac and Anderson missing 15 games each....

Payton missing 2 games...

This team is injury riddled....When they get healthy....you will see something....THAT is what RILEY sees.

IMO....and I have never been a big fan of Stan's....he left 4 wins out there this season.


BTW...anybody want to guess what San Antonio's record would be right now if they had Duncan miss 18 games, Parker miss 5 games...., and Bruce Bowen miss the first 5? Do you get the picture?

It is sad that Riley will get credit for a turnaround when a turnaround was gonna happen anyway.

But trust me on this.....the Heat upgraded their Coaching bigtime.

and if you don't think SHAQ is behind this...you just have not been listening....In the offseason...when Shaq was asked what coaches he would most like to play for....He mentioned Pat Riley.....and NO ONE ELSE.

This was Shaq's doing.

PHINATIC13
12-12-2005, 09:53 PM
You're right on that 126 Riley>VanGundy.....no brainer

d-day
12-13-2005, 12:14 AM
bottom line - i feel better about riley coaching this team than svg - don't really pay much attention to the drama...

kud
12-13-2005, 03:38 AM
bottom line - i feel better about riley coaching this team than svg - don't really pay much attention to the drama...

Who wouldn't? Van Gundy was a disgrace. The Wannstedt of the HEAT. He had Shaq and Wade which obscured his poor coaching abilities.

Now that Riley is back on the bench maybe we can get back to winning.

finfansince72
12-13-2005, 06:54 AM
Who wouldn't? Van Gundy was a disgrace. The Wannstedt of the HEAT. He had Shaq and Wade which obscured his poor coaching abilities.

Now that Riley is back on the bench maybe we can get back to winning.

Cmon stuff like this is pure nonsense. Wade got hurt and thats why the Heat didnt make the Finals. Blaming Van Gundy for that or Shaq getting hurt is absurd. This nonsense that he cant coach or hasnt won is idiotic. Now that Shaq is back the Heat will start winning, regardless of who is coach. Im surprised at all the backlash at Van Gundy, the guy is a good coach.

nyjunc
12-13-2005, 09:02 AM
He was an assistant coach when Paul Westhead was fired in the 1982 season, which gave him his first opportunity. The only place you can argue is that MAYBE he did so in NY, because of Patrick Ewing.

He jumped back into coaching (while fulfilling the role of president) in the 1995/96 season, and had NOTHING. This is what he helped engineer when he got here:


He lucked into that LAL job as that team could have won 4 titles w/ any of us coaching it. He had a great situation in NY having homecourt against Chi in '93 and then w/o Michaal the next 2 years and couldn't take advnatage and win a title. Heck he needed a bad call against Jordan-less Chi to beat them in '94. Then he faxed in his resignation to the Knkicks and hopped on down to Miami to take total control. YES he picked his spot there, no there wasn't much but he knew he had cap room andplenty of money to spend and comically thought he could build around Alonzo :lol: HE put the teams that he coached together and HE failed as a coach, His teams were as talented, if not more so, than any Eastern team post-Jordan and he never even made a conf final. All Pat is doing is tranishing his legacy even more, the further away he gets from LA the more peopl realize he had little to do w/ their success.

phunwin
12-13-2005, 09:35 AM
Well the fact of the matter is that this story stands. In a court of law its always the opposers obligation to prove otherwise. Untill SVG's opposers do so, his story stands. You may not belive it for whatever reason i dont know. BUt we must take his word on it till someone proves this story false.

Wow, thanks for that, Clarence Darrow. Not sure why I bothered with three years of law school when I could have just talked to you. :rolleyes:

Of course, since about the only people who buy this are some Heat diehards (and even many of those don't buy it, like my boy 126, who rightly smells The Big Whatever's machinations at work), it sounds to me like the court of public opinion has weighed in.

Let's try to think about this with a non-jaundiced eye, shall we? SVG's been a coach for, what, 30 years? It's at least 20 for sure. The guy knows, and has known for a LONG time that working as a coach entails a lot of ultra-late nights breaking down film, a lot of sleeping on the office couch, a lot of hand-holding and babysitting for multi-millionaires, and a lot of travel. This is NOT news to him. So all of a sudden, in the middle of a disappointing season, with a Hall of Famer chomping at the bit to take over, and his star player sulking behind the scenes, he has a revelation? Even assuming there's some truth to it, isn't the timing pretty damned convenient?

phunwin
12-13-2005, 09:40 AM
I should add that, whatever the reasoning, there's little question that Riley is an upgrade on SVG. Riley has the credibility to keep this mish-mash of egos in line, which Van Gundy didn't. So I don't question the move itself, I'd just feel a lot better if they'd drop the BS. I'd have felt a lot better if Riley came out and said, "I gave Stan a chance to go somewhere with this team, and the results were disappointing. So we're making a change."

finfansince72
12-13-2005, 09:52 AM
Riley should have just taken over in the offseason, Im not sure what this whole song and dance was about. Anyone who bought that crap at the press conference please pm me about some quality beachfront property in kentucky I have dirtcheap.
I do think Riley is an upgrade but VanGundy is still a quality coach, who I believe got as much out of the team last year as Riley would have. Wade got hurt, crap like that happens, its not his fault. Shaq cant single handedly carry teams anymore.
I dont know if people watched the Riley teams in New York or if this crap is revisionist or what but he was really good in New York. They played the Bulls to the limit every series they played them. Starks threw up about 30 bricks in a Finals game, and Ewing missed a pointblank layup or the Knicks probaly would have won a title. Things like that happen, the team was just snakebit for some reason. The Knicks were a really, really good team that lost to one of the alltime great teams in the Bulls. No shame in that. Plenty of good teams and players lost out on titles because of Jordan.

Whatsdatson20
12-13-2005, 10:08 AM
Wow, thanks for that, Clarence Darrow. Not sure why I bothered with three years of law school when I could have just talked to you. :rolleyes:

Of course, since about the only people who buy this are some Heat diehards (and even many of those don't buy it, like my boy 126, who rightly smells The Big Whatever's machinations at work), it sounds to me like the court of public opinion has weighed in.

Let's try to think about this with a non-jaundiced eye, shall we? SVG's been a coach for, what, 30 years? It's at least 20 for sure. The guy knows, and has known for a LONG time that working as a coach entails a lot of ultra-late nights breaking down film, a lot of sleeping on the office couch, a lot of hand-holding and babysitting for multi-millionaires, and a lot of travel. This is NOT news to him. So all of a sudden, in the middle of a disappointing season, with a Hall of Famer chomping at the bit to take over, and his star player sulking behind the scenes, he has a revelation? Even assuming there's some truth to it, isn't the timing pretty damned convenient?



Once again, all based on opinion. No one has any proof that Riley was "chomping at the bit" as you put it. I agree that SVG has been making this sacrifice for a long time and its no revelation to him. But keep in my mind that he never once said he just realized it. SVG said that it had always bothered him. Over time it became worse and worse. It wasn't till recently with his daughters b-day that he realized that he needed a change. He has been making the sacrifice for years, and is just plain tired of making that sacrifice. Im not saying every single thing he said was true, but i dont buy that Riles pushed him out in any way. And once again i say, untill YOU or anyone else proves that the story was a crock, then we must just take his word and move along.


-And btw, dont be a jerk about stuff. I responded to you in a mature way. No one cares how much law school you attended. Leave that for another disscussion.

nyjunc
12-13-2005, 10:30 AM
Once again, all based on opinion. No one has any proof that Riley was "chomping at the bit" as you put it. I agree that SVG has been making this sacrifice for a long time and its no revelation to him. But keep in my mind that he never once said he just realized it. SVG said that it had always bothered him. Over time it became worse and worse. It wasn't till recently with his daughters b-day that he realized that he needed a change. He has been making the sacrifice for years, and is just plain tired of making that sacrifice. Im not saying every single thing he said was true, but i dont buy that Riles pushed him out in any way. And once again i say, untill YOU or anyone else proves that the story was a crock, then we must just take his word and move along.


-And btw, dont be a jerk about stuff. I responded to you in a mature way. No one cares how much law school you attended. Leave that for another disscussion.

The smoke was out there in the summer about Riley taking over so you know he was going to take over at the first sign of trouble and Shaq gets hurt and you struggle then SVG "retires". I just find it amazing that the guy is mostly a career assistant and finally gets hs chance to run an NBA team and does well and has a Championship caliber teama nd he then decides he needs to spend more time w/ his family.

Section126
12-13-2005, 10:46 AM
He lucked into that LAL job as that team could have won 4 titles w/ any of us coaching it. He had a great situation in NY having homecourt against Chi in '93 and then w/o Michaal the next 2 years and couldn't take advnatage and win a title. Heck he needed a bad call against Jordan-less Chi to beat them in '94. Then he faxed in his resignation to the Knkicks and hopped on down to Miami to take total control. YES he picked his spot there, no there wasn't much but he knew he had cap room andplenty of money to spend and comically thought he could build around Alonzo :lol: HE put the teams that he coached together and HE failed as a coach, His teams were as talented, if not more so, than any Eastern team post-Jordan and he never even made a conf final. All Pat is doing is tranishing his legacy even more, the further away he gets from LA the more peopl realize he had little to do w/ their success.


You should look a little closer to Pat Riley's "failures" since his LA days.....

There were some miracle losses that kept him from making another finals or winning a championship.

BTW....if you really look back at those Knick teams.....he really overachieved with them. The Heat teams lost some real heartbreakers to keep them from making an NBA finals....

Yeah...Riley hasn't won without Kareem....Phil Jackson hasn't won without Jordan, Kobe/Shaq. It takes players to win.

Like I said...I would have loved to see San Antonio play 18 out of 21 without Duncan and then have Parker miss 5 games...Bruce Bowen miss 5...etc....I would have loved it.

I wish SVG well.....but I can't begin to tell you how many games SVG would brain fart in. I am telling you...you needed to watch the games...he would do some very strange things....


My favorite was against the Nuggets when Carmelo and Wade were dueling.....Wade comes out with 2:30 left in the third....The Announcer says..."I bet he comes back pretty soon"...we had a 5 point lead when he went out.......We are down 6 when he brings back Wade......WITH 6:39 LEFT in the 4th!!!!!! Come on...that is just stupid and incompetent coaching.

Sitting Wayne SImien and Doleac vs. San Antonio when it was obvious that we needed to use their fouls on Duncan....There are many more to add to SVG's greatest misses.

Somebody said it best....he was "The Wanny" of the NBA.

nyjunc
12-13-2005, 10:59 AM
There were some miracle losses that kept him from making another finals or winning a championship.

name one miracle loss that kept him from the Finals or a Championship?


BTW....if you really look back at those Knick teams.....he really overachieved with them. The Heat teams lost some real heartbreakers to keep them from making an NBA finals....


Especially in the 2 years w/o Jordan that Knick team was the best in the East and maybe the best in the league and still couldn't win a title yet the Knicks were back in the Finals a few years after Riley left while Riley never came close w/ any of his Heat teams.


Yeah...Riley hasn't won without Kareem....Phil Jackson hasn't won without Jordan, Kobe/Shaq. It takes players to win.


In 1994 w/o Jordan he took a Bulls team to Game 7 against Riley's Knick team that lost in game 7 of the Finals and Chi lost basically b/c of a phantom foul call on Hubert Davis that gave NY Game 5 or else it most likely would have been Bulls in 6.

Riley, like KC Jones w/ Boston in the 80s, was carried to multiple titles. neother one of them won another outside of those dynasty teams and the way Riley is wound so tight he makes his teams play tight this will be a downgrade for you.

phunwin
12-13-2005, 11:26 AM
Once again, all based on opinion. No one has any proof that Riley was "chomping at the bit" as you put it. I agree that SVG has been making this sacrifice for a long time and its no revelation to him. But keep in my mind that he never once said he just realized it. SVG said that it had always bothered him. Over time it became worse and worse. It wasn't till recently with his daughters b-day that he realized that he needed a change. He has been making the sacrifice for years, and is just plain tired of making that sacrifice. Im not saying every single thing he said was true, but i dont buy that Riles pushed him out in any way. And once again i say, untill YOU or anyone else proves that the story was a crock, then we must just take his word and move along.

Until *I* prove the story was a crock? By your line of thinking, we can take almost anything that anyone says publicly at face value. It would be nice if the world were like that, but it's not.


-And btw, dont be a jerk about stuff. I responded to you in a mature way. No one cares how much law school you attended. Leave that for another disscussion.

I'm not trying to be a jerk; you're applying an entirely different and completely inapplicable standard. The opposer's obligation to prove otherwise? How about the far more applicable standard of common sense, taken with a few grains of skepticism?

In any event, if you want to live in your world, where everything Pat Riley and Stan Van Gundy say publicly can be taken as absolute gospel, go ahead. Who am I to disturb that?

Section126
12-13-2005, 12:10 PM
name one miracle loss that kept him from the Finals or a Championship?

A few....

Patrick Ewings missed layup in game 7 versus the Pacers in the semi's kept them from the ECF vs. a Magic team that they had played very well against during the regular season.

1999 buzzard beater by Houston to beat the Heat in the deciding game..there was no one in the east at that time and sure enough...the Knicks went to the finals that year...the winner of that series was going to the finals.

In 2000 the Heat loses 83-82 in game 7, in the final 1:32...nobody scored for either team....the officials did manage to call offensive goal tending on ZO when a replay showed he didn't even touch the ball....two shots to win by the Heat went in and out.

Especially in the 2 years w/o Jordan that Knick team was the best in the East and maybe the best in the league and still couldn't win a title yet the Knicks were back in the Finals a few years after Riley left while Riley never came close w/ any of his Heat teams.

In 1993-1994 the Knicks had the #1 seed in the east....THEY made the finals and lost in 7 games. (That was the first year there was no MJ)

In 1994-1995 the Knicks had the #3 seed in the east....they lost to the #2 seed Pacers in the semi's. Ewing missed that layup.

He left that offseason. So without Jordan in the league...he made the finals with the #1 seed in the EC, and he then should have (If Ewing can make a layup) made at least the ECF as a#3 seed.

You were half right.

In 1994 w/o Jordan he took a Bulls team to Game 7 against Riley's Knick team that lost in game 7 of the Finals and Chi lost basically b/c of a phantom foul call on Hubert Davis that gave NY Game 5 or else it most likely would have been Bulls in 6.

Maybe....the Bulls still lost....and GOT KILLED in game 7. But if you want to talk about bad calls...we can go on forever...the 2000 game 7 Heat/Knicks was a total fraud and one of the worst officiated games i have ever seen.....

Riley, like KC Jones w/ Boston in the 80s, was carried to multiple titles. neother one of them won another outside of those dynasty teams and the way Riley is wound so tight he makes his teams play tight this will be a downgrade for you.

Nice wishful thinking.

.

nyjunc
12-13-2005, 12:29 PM
Patrick Ewings missed layup in game 7 versus the Pacers in the semi's kept them from the ECF vs. a Magic team that they had played very well against during the regular season.

That play, which was not a "miracle" loss like say game 5 of '99, did not cost them a Fianls trip or a Championship.

Very well? The Knicks went 2-3 against orlando, they won the first game by 3 then lost 3 straight(2 of which were in double digits including a 25 pt thrashing) and the Knicks won in a meaningless game on the final day as orlando already had the div and homecourt wrapped up.


1999 buzzard beater by Houston to beat the Heat in the deciding game..there was no one in the east at that time and sure enough...the Knicks went to the finals that year...the winner of that series was going to the finals.

1st rd series, 1 seed vs. 8 seed. yes it was a miracle shot but you never should have been in that position to lose and it was a FIRST ROUND series. Indiana had the same record as Miami, they should have betaen the Knicks as well and definitely could have beaten Miami. Rd 2 was a cupcake w/ Atl but the conf fianls would have been very tough butt hat shot did not definitely cost Riley a Finals appearance or Championship.


In 2000 the Heat loses 83-82 in game 7, in the final 1:32...nobody scored for either team....the officials did manage to call offensive goal tending on ZO when a replay showed he didn't even touch the ball....two shots to win by the Heat went in and out.

Again it was a 2nd rd series, it wasn't miraculous and it didn't cost Riley a Finals appearance or Championship.


In 1993-1994 the Knicks had the #1 seed in the east....THEY made the finals and lost in 7 games. (That was the first year there was no MJ)

B/c of a blown call they got by the Bulls w/o Jordan and they were a more talented team than Houston. Houston had the best player but the Knicks should have beaten Houston.


In 1994-1995 the Knicks had the #3 seed in the east....they lost to the #2 seed Pacers in the semi's. Ewing missed that layup.

They seed based on div titles, the Knicks had the 2nd best record but Indiana got #2 b/c they won their div while NY was in 2nd, NY still ahd homecourt and were the favorites in that series.


He left that offseason. So without Jordan in the league...he made the finals with the #1 seed in the EC, and he then should have (If Ewing can make a layup) made at least the ECF as a#3 seed.

Got lucky vs. Chi, lost a series to Hosuton they should have won and lost to an inferior Indiana team w/ homecourt.


Nice wishful thinking.

We'll see, I think you see Riley and see a Championship but you seem to forget all his post-LAL failures especially w/ Miami. At least he made the Knicks into contenders but he never even did that in Miami.

Section126
12-13-2005, 12:45 PM
We'll see, I think you see Riley and see a Championship but you seem to forget all his post-LAL failures especially w/ Miami. At least he made the Knicks into contenders but he never even did that in Miami.


He did turn Miami into a contender...he was just unlucky...don't forget the Heat lost yet another deciding game vs. the Knicks with ZO suspended for the deciding game.

As for all the other stuff...we just disagree. I guess you think Phil Jackson sucks too.

I am still waiting to see which coach is the one that wins without great players in the NBA.....

nyjunc
12-13-2005, 12:55 PM
He did turn Miami into a contender...he was just unlucky...don't forget the Heat lost yet another deciding game vs. the Knicks with ZO suspended for the deciding game.


Miami was never a legitimate contendre under Riley, they made ONE Conf Finals and were won just 1 game and the only reason they made that Conf Finals was b/c half the Knick team was suspended. They never came clsoe to reaching an NBA Finals under Riley. To his credit he built the current group which was a contender last year and should be this year but under him as HC they have never been a legit threat.


As for all the other stuff...we just disagree. I guess you think Phil Jackson sucks too.


No b/c even w/o Jordan in '94 he had his team contending and in '95 w/o Mike most of the year they were good.


I am still waiting to see which coach is the one that wins without great players in the NBA.....

Of course you need great players but there are certain teams that would win no matter who their coach is and LA was one of those teams. They won right before he got there and made a Finals right after he left. Jackson took over a tam that had never won or even reached the Finals. yeah they were ready to win but he got them there and then he tok over an underachieving Laker team and won in his 1st year.

Section126
12-13-2005, 01:04 PM
Miami was never a legitimate contendre under Riley, they made ONE Conf Finals and were won just 1 game and the only reason they made that Conf Finals was b/c half the Knick team was suspended. They never came clsoe to reaching an NBA Finals under Riley. To his credit he built the current group which was a contender last year and should be this year but under him as HC they have never been a legit threat.

The Knicks were the achilles heal...and like I said...alot of bad luck is what kept those Heat teams from advancing to ECF's...

No b/c even w/o Jordan in '94 he had his team contending and in '95 w/o Mike most of the year they were good.

We disagree...

Of course you need great players but there are certain teams that would win no matter who their coach is and LA was one of those teams. They won right before he got there and made a Finals right after he left. Jackson took over a tam that had never won or even reached the Finals. yeah they were ready to win but he got them there and then he tok over an underachieving Laker team and won in his 1st year.

Riley took over a putrid Knicks team and made them contenders...and then took over an even more putrid heat team and made THEM contenders...that's pretty good.

.

nyjunc
12-13-2005, 01:18 PM
Riley took over a putrid Knicks team and made them contenders...and then took over an even more putrid heat team and made THEM contenders...that's pretty good.


The Knicks were not putrid, they had some good players and a good building block in place in Patrick Ewing. Riley took over for the '91-'92 season and guided them to the 2nd rd, in '88-'89 and '89-'90 they also made the 2nd rd so they weren't in as bad a shape as you think.

Whatsdatson20
12-13-2005, 01:21 PM
Until *I* prove the story was a crock? By your line of thinking, we can take almost anything that anyone says publicly at face value. It would be nice if the world were like that, but it's not.



I'm not trying to be a jerk; you're applying an entirely different and completely inapplicable standard. The opposer's obligation to prove otherwise? How about the far more applicable standard of common sense, taken with a few grains of skepticism?

In any event, if you want to live in your world, where everything Pat Riley and Stan Van Gundy say publicly can be taken as absolute gospel, go ahead. Who am I to disturb that?



Im not saying you take everything at face value, but you cant just insist that its a lie without proof of so. You speak of common sense? I dont know about you, but I thought it was common sense to believe that a man listens to what he knows is true, and that is that family/your kids are more important then a job. He may have always known it but never listened to the voice. SVG said that he could coach for more years if it was just his younger kids he was worring about. But looking at his oldest kids made him realize the time is running out to be thier for them.


Here it is, I take what he said as truth, you dont. So be it. Now on to the Riles era......again.

Section126
12-13-2005, 01:22 PM
The simple facts are these....The Heat has a good team....and now they have a great coach.

No slight to Stan...but IMO there should have been no reasons to be shaking your head a tthe things he would do as a coach.

The guy was just not that good a coach.

Enough with reacting to everybody else when we have a roster to give ALOT of teams serious matchup problems.

I'll add another one.....

another SVG special is to take the ball away from the hottest player at the moment....J-Will is destroying J. Terry of the Mavs off the dribble...so what does SVG do? Not only does he bring in Toine and Haslem ou tthere together...but he puts Toine to guard Dirk and then calls ISO after ISO with Toine...and when that doesn't work...he starts calling pick and rolls with Haslem and Wade....of course....a 4 point deficit turns into a 12 point deficit...and we lose...

SVG insisting on calling EVERY SINGLE PLAY (yes...believe it or not...the guy calls ALL the plays) is just plain old stupid.

I swear...if I saw another player get hot to have SVG sit him on the bench...I was going to committ a violent act.

Most of all...his brain fart in game 7 last year.....sealed it for me.

Mephistopheles
12-13-2005, 01:59 PM
Guess we'll see tonight.