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PhinsRDbest
12-20-2005, 06:55 PM
Wow, I know this is probably from some irrevalant guy but look at this mock draft and scratch your head. :confused:
Mock Draft (http://www.hailredskins.com/Draft/FentMock.htm)

Boomer
12-20-2005, 06:56 PM
Why would you scratch your head?

Alex44
12-20-2005, 06:57 PM
Because

1- texans wont take bush

2- miami wont be picking #2

and many other things not the least of which is that ferguson will be a top 5 pick

PhinsRDbest
12-20-2005, 06:58 PM
I can't see Saban trading picks away.

Lappy
12-20-2005, 06:58 PM
That would be pretty cool.....and who knows stranger things have happened!

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 06:59 PM
Actually...it kinda makes sense...

What do you think Boom?

Alex44
12-20-2005, 07:00 PM
That would be pretty cool.....and who knows stranger things have happened!


That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:02 PM
Leinart has the best touch of any passer I've studied in nigh on 20 years. I assume that the person who said this was a crazy mock was talking specifically about that trade rather than the mock as a whole? Because the mock as a whole isn't bad at all.

Bush to Houston would have been very likely indeed and still may be if they lose out. Ferguson will go in the top 5 if there's a team that has a need there.

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 07:02 PM
That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami

Hmmm...Im not a huge Leinart fan....but he isnt gonna fall on his face....hes gonna be a great QB someday...

Dol-Fan Dupree
12-20-2005, 07:03 PM
why would seattle take Jay Culter?

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 07:04 PM
The trade itself is one of the better ones I have seen..it actually has me thinking...

Lappy
12-20-2005, 07:05 PM
That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami

really???

I work every saturday so I miss a ton of college games but I did catch one....it was a saturday night game and I was impressed.

....but like I said I didn't see too many other games. My college scouting is at an all time low now! :)

Alex44
12-20-2005, 07:05 PM
Hmmm...Im not a huge Leinart fan....but he isnt gonna fall on his face....hes gonna be a great QB someday...

Um no


thats not gonna happen Ill bet all I have on him faling

Chisel Monkey
12-20-2005, 07:06 PM
That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami


Preach on Brother.... All of the Vince Young Nay Sayers will be eating crow in a couple of years!!!

Alex44
12-20-2005, 07:08 PM
Leinart has the best touch of any passer I've studied in nigh on 20 years. I assume that the person who said this was a crazy mock was talking specifically about that trade rather than the mock as a whole? Because the mock as a whole isn't bad at all.

Bush to Houston would have been very likely indeed and still may be if they lose out. Ferguson will go in the top 5 if there's a team that has a need there.


I would love anyone to tell me why leinart will succeed

because I can come up with numerous reasons he wont

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:08 PM
Um no


thats not gonna happen Ill bet all I have on him faling

What a ridiculous attempt at a statement. How can you say that? What basis do you have that he'll fall flat on his face? 3 National Titles potentially, 1 possibly 2 defeats in his career, 1 Heisman, great touch, great poise, great leadership, pocket presence, enough mobility, a decent enough arm, throws a very catcheable ball, etc etc etc

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 07:08 PM
Preach on Brother.... All of the Vince Young Nay Sayers will be eating crow in a couple of years!!!

Whats one got to do with the other...why cant they both end up being good QB's

Its funny...but if someone has a so called fav..they completely dis every other QB..specially those in the Young , Leinart camps.....

Finfanforever
12-20-2005, 07:08 PM
Because

1- texans wont take bush

2- miami wont be picking #2

and many other things not the least of which is that ferguson will be a top 5 pick

Why would Texans not take Bush...They're bad but not ret@rted.

Alex44
12-20-2005, 07:09 PM
Why would Texans not take Bush...They're bad but not ret@rted.


They just signed Dominik Davis to a huge contract this last offseason

They have their RB of the future

Them taking Bush is like the Colts trading up to take a QB

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 07:11 PM
That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami

We might buy your argument ..if you could back it up with any kind of evidence to support your thesis...

Other wise...your theory sounds as though it were conceived by a second grader.

Phin_Phan
12-20-2005, 07:11 PM
Because

1- texans wont take bush

2- miami wont be picking #2

and many other things not the least of which is that ferguson will be a top 5 pick

How can u actually say that Texans wont take Bush?? they already said they are keeping Carr, so who's worth #1 pick if ur not takin Bush and if u have a Qb you won't take Leinart then who goes at #1???

Alex44
12-20-2005, 07:12 PM
What a ridiculous attempt at a statement. How can you say that? What basis do you have that he'll fall flat on his face? 3 National Titles potentially, 1 possibly 2 defeats in his career, 1 Heisman, great touch, great poise, great leadership, pocket presence, enough mobility, a decent enough arm, throws a very catcheable ball, etc etc etc


1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 07:13 PM
They just signed Dominik Davis to a huge contract this last offseason

They have their RB of the future

Them taking Bush is like the Colts trading up to take a QB

Hmm wondered if they thought they would even be in a position to get a player like Bush....when they made that contract offer. It still doesnt stop them from getting a player like Bush...who will be infinatley better than Davis...

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:13 PM
I would love anyone to tell me why leinart will succeed

because I can come up with numerous reasons he wont

Well, apart from what I've just said above, he's mentally switched on, has great field awareness, patience and intelligence in the pocket, a great mental clock, doesn't force the ball, can buy time, is a great play faker, uses his eyes supremely well to look the safety off the ball before working back to his primary target, can work through his progressions and never gets hurried doing so, regardless of what's happening around him, is very accurate, has the best touch of any QB I've evaluated in almost 2 decades, has a quick set up and release and is a winner.

Alex44
12-20-2005, 07:13 PM
How can u actually say that Texans wont take Bush?? they already said they are keeping Carr, so who's worth #1 pick if ur not takin Bush and if u have a Qb you won't take Leinart then who goes at #1???


1- They will probally trade the pick for a huge deal

2- They will take ferguson LT with their pick

RB isnt a need on the texans, thats like saying the colts should draft a QB

Alex44
12-20-2005, 07:14 PM
Well, apart from what I've just said above, he's mentally switched on, has great field awareness, patience and intelligence in the pocket, a great mental clock, doesn't force the ball, can buy time, is a great play faker, uses his eyes supremely well to look the safety off the ball before working back to his primary target, can work through his progressions and never gets hurried doing so, regardless of what's happening around him, is very accurate, has the best touch of any QB I've evaluated in almost 2 decades, has a quick set up and release and is a winner.

Im not even argueing this

anyone who buys into the leinart or usc hype isnt worth my time

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 07:14 PM
1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them

How does someone not deserve a national championship...

And by your argument..Peyton Manning sucks...because he has great WR's, plus teams have to stack 8 in the box to stop the Edge.....

Dol-Fan Dupree
12-20-2005, 07:14 PM
Im not even argueing this

anyone who buys into the leinart or usc hype isnt worth my time

Then why post?

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:15 PM
1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them

You'e 1-6 on that. He has good wideouts, but the rest is utter nonsense.

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:16 PM
Im not even argueing this

anyone who buys into the leinart or usc hype isnt worth my time

You're not arguing because you have no argument.

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 07:16 PM
It actually comes across more like...



babbling.......

PhinsRDbest
12-20-2005, 07:19 PM
Leinart has the best touch of any passer I've studied in nigh on 20 years. I assume that the person who said this was a crazy mock was talking specifically about that trade rather than the mock as a whole? Because the mock as a whole isn't bad at all.

Bush to Houston would have been very likely indeed and still may be if they lose out. Ferguson will go in the top 5 if there's a team that has a need there.

Yup I was talking about the trade. I guess I should have called the thread "Crazy Mock Draft Scenario". Sorry its my first thread. By the way Leinart is the real deal and I wish this trade would happen but I don't see this wish coming true.

motioncityhifi
12-20-2005, 07:19 PM
something tells me that boomer probably is right........

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:19 PM
Yup I was talking about the trade. I guess I should have called the thread "Crazy Mock Draft Scenario". Sorry its my first thread. By the way Leinart is the real deal and I wish this trade would happen but I don't see this wish coming true.


No worries dude. And welcome.

pigskinguy
12-20-2005, 07:20 PM
Im not even argueing this

anyone who buys into the leinart or usc hype isnt worth my time

That's your retort. :sidelol:

Spoken just like someone who is spewing verbal diarrhea and has nothing of real substance to his arguement.
Good job, man.

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:21 PM
Len Pasquarelli:

"One game into this "consultant" gig with the Houston Texans, and Dan Reeves has done a pretty nice job, huh? It's like Reeves, who has the itch to coach again, was tailor-made for the position, right? Amazing, isn't it, the wisdom that Reeves apparently bestowed on the Texans in such a very short time.
Then again, if you are a Texans fan who was hoping to see Southern Cal tailback and playmaker nonpareil Reggie Bush in a Houston uniform, you might not be too thrilled with Sunday's 30-19 victory over Arizona, which lost quarterback Kurt Warner for the rest of the year with a knee injury. The victory sets up the season finale against San Francisco as a real "Bush Bowl," which it had not been before Sunday's events. You see, head-to-head results don't enter into the tiebreaker when it comes to draft position. So if the Texans were 1-14 entering the finale, and San Francisco was 2-13, and the Texans won to finish the year at 2-14, it wouldn't have mattered in the draft-slot tiebreaker. Ties in the draft are broken by strength of schedule, with the team that has the weakest aggregate opponents' record getting the top spot.

At this point, Houston's opponents have a .544 winning mark, and San Francisco's are at .587. It would have been difficult for the Texans to catch the 49ers in terms of winning percentage of opponents, so if both teams finished 2-14, Houston almost certainly would have gotten the top choice, and most likely Bush."


Alex22, Davis has struggled this year, Jonathan Wells is a free agent and Bush would give them something ridiculously special. A game breaker in the backfield who would get 25 touches at TB, WR, KR, etc and who could, along with Andre Johnson, help lift this team out of the mire.

Plus with a hugely strong group of LT's in this years draft, going deep into R3 with quality, why miss out on the next Barry Sanders, when you can get a very fine left tackle at the top of R2?

PhinsRDbest
12-20-2005, 07:22 PM
No worries dude. And welcome.

Thanx

chillin6776
12-20-2005, 07:25 PM
Because

1- texans wont take bush

2- miami wont be picking #2

and many other things not the least of which is that ferguson will be a top 5 pick
yeah, bush isn't going #1, ummm no

SkapePhin
12-20-2005, 07:30 PM
LMAO! The guy has SF trading their 2 overall pick for Ricky and Miami's 15. I would take that in a SECOND!

finfanoh
12-20-2005, 07:31 PM
I don't think St. Nick will do it because he doesn't want to give up draft picks and he is very confident in his drafting ability. Plus Ricky comes very cheap for the quality back that he is. And anytime you can have a quality backup like him for such a little cap hit you have to keep him. Hopefully he can find some hidden gems with more picks IN THE DRAFT.

IN SAINT NICK WE TRUST

kastofsna120
12-20-2005, 07:33 PM
alex22 makes me laugh with every post

King Felix
12-20-2005, 07:33 PM
reggie bush is once and lifetime player u get him not matter what

King Felix
12-20-2005, 07:35 PM
1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them

but if vince young woulda won this year he would be using that in his so called "argument"

Celtkin
12-20-2005, 07:35 PM
You're not arguing because you have no argument.

:lol: So true. You can't argue with this guy. He's a teenager and is convinced that he has all the answers.

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:38 PM
Shame Celt, because he has NO answers for anything.

Celtkin
12-20-2005, 07:38 PM
LMAO! The guy has SF trading their 2 overall pick for Ricky and Miami's 15. I would take that in a SECOND!

In essence, we would be trading Ricky and next year's second and swap 1st round picks. That would be a sweet deal.

Boomer
12-20-2005, 07:39 PM
It would be a mint deal.

ChambersWI
12-20-2005, 07:42 PM
1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them

shall we go over reason's why Vince Young might fail?

1-He has 6'+ WRs, all he has to do is lob the ball to them

2-He has not gone up against a good corner all year (Charles Gordon has been a disappointment all year)

3-The toughest defense Vince Young faced in the Big 12 was during practice

4-He does not play in a pro style offense

5-You claim Leinhart is inaccurate Young might be the most efficient QB in the nation, but it's not hard to complete passes when the best corner you faced all year plays for Kansas. When he played Ohio State, he struggled most of the game. Oh and I've seen all of Young's games the past two years. When he's not playing from the shotgun/option (aka Benson is in the backfield) he struggled. And Young has more ints than Leinhart with less attempts

6-Leinhart didn't deserve either championship? He killed a very good Michigan team, and destroyed an OU team that was supposed to be better than the 03 team. FYI, Leinhart beat an Auburn team in 03 that had every player back on offense back last year. Vince Young's beat who? A Michigan team with 2 freshmen starting w/o their number 2 WR, and a OSU team that was playing musical quarterback.

7)Bush was part of Leinhart's success, but you do realize that Bush played a lot of slot WR the last two years, and LenDale White was the main back right? How good was Young when 8 men were in the box to stop Benson?


Now I'm not a Young hater/Leinhart supporter. I'm just pointing out that it's too easy to point out flaws.

SECfootball
12-20-2005, 07:43 PM
That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami

Matt Leinart is Dan Marino compared to Young

vt_dolfan
12-20-2005, 07:44 PM
LMAO! The guy has SF trading their 2 overall pick for Ricky and Miami's 15. I would take that in a SECOND!

You missed the catch..we give up our second rounder next year as well....

Celtkin
12-20-2005, 07:46 PM
You missed the catch..we give up our second rounder next year as well....

That's not a catch. Like I said earlier, it's like trading Ricky, swapping 1st round picks and giving next year's second. The net difference is Ricky and a second round pick

BrazForPhins
12-20-2005, 07:55 PM
I would make that trade in a heart beat. That's exactly what I'd give up for a top QB prospect

Amars
12-20-2005, 08:04 PM
1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them


Your just a texas fan and Vince Young Homer. I can give double as many reason why Vince Young will fail. Your points are bogus. I seen every game of him at USC and hes the best QB in the draft and will do well in the NFL.

poornate
12-20-2005, 08:11 PM
Your just a texas fan and Vince Young Homer. I can give double as many reason why Vince Young will fail. Your points are bogus. I seen every game of him at USC and hes the best QB in the draft and will do well in the NFL.



I think someone finally got to the root of the issue. ;)

Finfanforever
12-20-2005, 08:20 PM
They just signed Dominik Davis to a huge contract this last offseason

They have their RB of the future

Them taking Bush is like the Colts trading up to take a QB

Gee Comparing Davis to Bush is like comparing Travis Minor to Ronnie Brown.

Lappy
12-20-2005, 08:22 PM
Gee Comparing Davis to Bush is like comparing Travis Minor to Ronnie Brown.

Dude I kind of like Davis!!! :)

poornate
12-20-2005, 08:27 PM
I like Davis too, but he is no comparison to Reggie Bush.

tylerdolphin
12-20-2005, 08:31 PM
Um no


thats not gonna happen Ill bet all I have on him faling

We all know that Vince Young is the best player to eer come out, but dont diss Lienart :sidelol:

s3an8
12-20-2005, 08:35 PM
17. Minnesota Vikings: Laurence Maroney, RB (USC),,,,,,
they made an error hes from minnesota i think but i know hes not from SC....

byroan
12-20-2005, 08:38 PM
You know...there's a reason that Boomer is a draft guru.

Spector
12-20-2005, 08:42 PM
Well if you think back to a past thread, Alex22 did not like Printers either. I dont know why he is so down on us getting a QB that isnt Young

unifiedtheory
12-20-2005, 08:45 PM
That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami

You're the same guy who thinks Tom Brady is overrated, and thinks Vince Young is the end all be all of college Q.B.'s

Did'nt you also say that Leinart should try to be more like you?

poornate
12-20-2005, 08:46 PM
Vince Young remids me of a jaunty footed Cade McNown....

fishypete
12-20-2005, 08:50 PM
Leinart has the best touch of any passer I've studied in nigh on 20 years. I assume that the person who said this was a crazy mock was talking specifically about that trade rather than the mock as a whole? Because the mock as a whole isn't bad at all.

Bush to Houston would have been very likely indeed and still may be if they lose out. Ferguson will go in the top 5 if there's a team that has a need there.


Boomer, LeFors had a nice touch on his passes.

Titlestarved
12-20-2005, 08:51 PM
IF THE 'BRICK LASTS THAT LONG I'M GONNA GET A BILLS TATTOO ! That is soooo not happenin' !!!!!

Tommatt
12-20-2005, 08:54 PM
I bet the same people saying leinart will fall on his face said the same thing about Carson Palmer years ago.

Agent51
12-20-2005, 08:58 PM
LMAO! The guy has SF trading their 2 overall pick for Ricky and Miami's 15. I would take that in a SECOND!

and our pick next year (2007), 2nd round I think it was, not sure, that article was like 4 thread pages ago :D

PhinsTD
12-20-2005, 09:00 PM
I would make that trade in a heart beat. That's exactly what I'd give up for a top QB prospect

I'd give up next years number one instead of the two for Leinart.

But, as my sig suggests, I love Leinart.

poornate
12-20-2005, 09:01 PM
All the Leinart talk is pointless. He is as sure a thing since Manning and Leaf came out a few years back....

Agent51
12-20-2005, 09:09 PM
I do agree with Alex22 when he said a Heisman doesn't make a great QB. There have been PLENTY of Heisman winner that do little or nothing in the NFL. Plus, I have always thought the Heisman to be a bit of a joke and not very accurate and true for one simple fact. All the past winners have a vote. What's to stop them from just continuing to vote for whomever is from their Alma-Mater so their school continues to produce "heimsan winning" players? I'm not saying this is a regular occurance or some conspiracy or something, but you have to know that happens. For example, Matt Leinart said he gave Reggie his pick this year because Reggie asked for it. Now, I think Reggie definately deserved it this year, but lets say (hypothetically speaking) that Vince Young had the better season, do you think Leinart would have voted against his teammate and good friend? No, I think Bush was getting his vote either way. That's just a confirmed example because Leinart flat out TOLD the media Reggie asked for the vote and Matt gave it to him, but you KNOW those older players, and even some younger ones, are voting for players from their Alma-Maters instead of who they truely think is the best.

Also, I'm no "draft guru" but I have seen Leinart play quite often, as I spend half the year in Souther California and half in Hawai'i, USC's games are ALWAYS on in both places. I'm not sold on Leinart. I know he has talent, but I don't see him transferring to a great NFL QB. He may be able to cut it in the league, but I never see him becoming great. I have seen him struggle in the easiest of situations and throw plenty of balls that never should have been thrown. I too question his arm strength, and I also question where his career would be if he DIDN'T have a Reggie Bush, LenDale White, Steve Smith, Dwayne Jarrett, etc etc.

Agent51
12-20-2005, 09:10 PM
All the Leinart talk is pointless. He is as sure a thing since Manning and Leaf came out a few years back....

A sure success (manning) or a sure bust (leaf) lol?

Alex44
12-20-2005, 09:13 PM
Well if you think back to a past thread, Alex22 did not like Printers either. I dont know why he is so down on us getting a QB that isnt Young


No I liked printers

I just pointed out the problems in his mechanics

Alex44
12-20-2005, 09:15 PM
I do agree with Alex22 when he said a Heisman doesn't make a great QB. There have been PLENTY of Heisman winner that do little or nothing in the NFL. Plus, I have always thought the Heisman to be a bit of a joke and not very accurate and true for one simple fact. All the past winners have a vote. What's to stop them from just continuing to vote for whomever is from their Alma-Mater so their school continues to produce "heimsan winning" players? I'm not saying this is a regular occurance or some conspiracy or something, but you have to know that happens. For example, Matt Leinart said he gave Reggie his pick this year because Reggie asked for it. Now, I think Reggie definately deserved it this year, but lets say (hypothetically speaking) that Vince Young had the better season, do you think Leinart would have voted against his teammate and good friend? No, I think Bush was getting his vote either way. That's just a confirmed example because Leinart flat out TOLD the media Reggie asked for the vote and Matt gave it to him, but you KNOW those older players, and even some younger ones, are voting for players from their Alma-Maters instead of who they truely think is the best.

Also, I'm no "draft guru" but I have seen Leinart play quite often, as I spend half the year in Souther California and half in Hawai'i, USC's games are ALWAYS on in both places. I'm not sold on Leinart. I know he has talent, but I don't see him transferring to a great NFL QB. He may be able to cut it in the league, but I never see him becoming great. I have seen him struggle in the easiest of situations and throw plenty of balls that never should have been thrown. I too question his arm strength, and I also question where his career would be if he DIDN'T have a Reggie Bush, LenDale White, Steve Smith, Dwayne Jarrett, etc etc.


I agree 100% with guys voting based on school

Ricky Williams said he voted for Vince Young

same school

Agent51
12-20-2005, 09:18 PM
I agree 100% with guys voting based on school

Ricky Williams said he voted for Vince Young

same school

Yep, he said he voted for Vince because "Vince played the best"? Now, I'm a DIEHARD longhorns fan, ever since I was 4 I have been a Dolphin's/Longhorn's fan, and as loyal as I can possibly think to be, but NO WAY did Vince outperform Bush. I HATE USC, with a PASSION, they are the Patriots of the NCAA, but there was absolutely NO QUESTION who should have won the Heisman, Reggie was just STUNNING this year, that's the only word I can think of.

Alex44
12-20-2005, 09:21 PM
Yep, he said he voted for Vince because "Vince played the best"? Now, I'm a DIEHARD longhorns fan, ever since I was 4 I have been a Dolphin's/Longhorn's fan, and as loyal as I can possibly think to be, but NO WAY did Vince outperform Bush. I HATE USC, with a PASSION, they are the Patriots of the NCAA, but there was absolutely NO QUESTION who should have won the Heisman, Reggie was just STUNNING this year, that's the only word I can think of.


As much as I love Vince I would have voted for reggie well maybe not voted for him but id have known he deserved it more

The problem I have with USC is this

They wernt better than LSU year 1 imo

They wernt better than auburn year 2 imo

Now if they win it this year I will be the first to admit they deserve it

RunningBackGuru
12-20-2005, 09:33 PM
That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami

:shakeno:

I actually think Leinart is going to do good...

Regan21286
12-20-2005, 09:39 PM
I don't think SF will make that kind of trade. I'd love to see it but it's unlikely. They might ask for more or go for Bush. Very much an upgrade over Gus who should be gone. Wouldn't be surprised though if Houston gets the #2 pick and trades down. Their GM was the one who traded down with NO to allow them to get Ricky. Either way, Fins will get a franchise QB.


That would be terrible not cool

Matt Leinart is gonna fall flat on his face in the NFL

I hope he is no where near miami

If he does end up in Miami, I'll be happy though I'll bet there'll be a "I'm ditching the Fins because Matt Leinart is on our team and go Jets/Bills/Pats" bandwagon. Seems even Marino could have his own anti-Dan bandwagon here.

Dubfire
12-20-2005, 09:39 PM
1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them

1 - Please. LOL.

2 and 3 contradict each other. Ive seen many USC games and never have I seen 8 in the box. NOt with the great receivers they have.

4- did you see the OB against OU? Most accurate deep passer I seen since my boy Gino.

5 - you have a point.

6- is a joke. LSU being better is VERY debatable. Auburn was definitley not better. And Texas does not win that game this year. If they do, it'll be close and Young will have to play the game of his life.

NO one and I mean NO ONE is crushing the Trojans in Pasadena. That's foolish to say.

Mike13
12-20-2005, 09:40 PM
How does someone not deserve a national championship...
The only arguement I can think for saying that is because the BCS is a crappy system and should be done way with, but thats just my opinion.

That whole mock is a little weird but I love the trade scenario that would be awesome, It wouldnt suprise me because as I have said many times Ricky will be traded if the right offer came along; and thats one hell of an offer. In reality however Lienart will fall to Tenessee IMO because Chow is there and both McNair and Volek aren't exactly spring chickens. I say us picking around #15 or so and having the chance to draft QBs such as Young, Cutler, Jacobs, Stanton or Whitehurst.

Agent51
12-20-2005, 09:46 PM
I don't think SF will make that kind of trade. I'd love to see it but it's unlikely. They might ask for more or go for Bush. Very much an upgrade over Gus who should be gone. Wouldn't be surprised though if Houston gets the #2 pick and trades down. Their GM was the one who traded down with NO to allow them to get Ricky. Either way, Fins will get a franchise QB.



If he does end up in Miami, I'll be happy though I'll bet there'll be a "I'm ditching the Fins because Matt Leinart is on our team and go Jets/Bills/Pats" bandwagon. Seems even Marino could have his own anti-Dan bandwagon here.

That is true (the anti-dan thing), some people on here (definately not everyone, but I'm sure most of you can figure out who they are) just say the craziest stuff sometimes, and go back and forth every day it seems.

As far as Leinart coming here. I don't like him one bit, I think he is overrated and I pray to god we don't draft him, BUT, if we somehow manage to get him then I will fully support him (and pray to god that he proves me 100% wrong, lollol) because he will be a 'phin and I am 100% loyal to my team and it's players (except Reggie Howard :fire: :lol: ).

finfansince72
12-20-2005, 09:48 PM
Question for Boomer, whats up with A.Smith? He looks so bad it brings Ryan Leaf back to mind. You think he is going to be a starter or is he just this bad? Man he looks so bad I think SF needs to take a Qb late first day/early second day or sign a decent vet. I somewhat believed much of the hype simply because I never saw much of him in college and just assumed scouts actually watched him play.

Id love it if we trade up fro Leinart, hes going to be a great pro. This would do 2 things, 1 it would give us the franchise Qb we have desperately needed since Marino left, 2 it would keep Leinart off the Jets so we dont have to face him twice a year for the next decade or so.
I really hope some scouts start to downplay Leinart that people are so stupid that he slides a bit so we can trade up and snag him. I dont see this trade being all that fair for SF. Ricky is not worth taking in return for a top 5 pick, once he is done getting enough cash to live off he is gone from the NFL, his past makes him a huge question mark. SF needs more than Ricky and the 15th pick next year, the 2nd rounder is nice but they need talent immediately and top talent. SF stinks, Im not sure this deal would make them any good next year. Trading down for them makes good sense, its what I would do if I was them, but not for this deal.
However, I would do this deal in a heartbeat if I was the GM in Miami :)).

HysterikiLL
12-20-2005, 09:48 PM
I think it is funny how whenever an NFL with a lowly record wins, all we hear is this damn "Losing out in the Reggie Bush sweepstakes" crap. 1 - Bush hasn't even officially declared yet and 2 - what makes anyone think he's a lock at 1st overall anyway?

poornate
12-20-2005, 09:58 PM
A. Smith is going through what every QB goes through....adjustments....

Remember Manning's rookie season? What a stinker that was...

Motion
12-20-2005, 10:01 PM
Matt Leinart is Dan Marino...


:eek: :shakeno: Please don't EVER say that again.

Motion
12-20-2005, 10:03 PM
Never been a big fan of Leinart but I don't think he'll fail in the NFL. I'm not as harsh on him as I used to be though. Do I think he has the potential to be an Elite NFL QB? No. But he could be a solid starter in time. That trade scenario would be awfully tempting but I'd be very wary about giving up to much to get him, especially when we could possibly land Cutler where we are and keep the 2nd and Ricky.

Regan21286
12-20-2005, 10:08 PM
That is true (the anti-dan thing), some people on here (definately not everyone, but I'm sure most of you can figure out who they are) just say the craziest stuff sometimes, and go back and forth every day it seems.

As far as Leinart coming here. I don't like him one bit, I think he is overrated and I pray to god we don't draft him, BUT, if we somehow manage to get him then I will fully support him (and pray to god that he proves me 100% wrong, lollol) because he will be a 'phin and I am 100% loyal to my team and it's players (except Reggie Howard :fire: :lol: ).

Haha, Howard really wore out his welcome. I was supportive of having him at first but I still thought we overpaid. Frankly, Howards as helpful to the Fins as a player in a Jets uniform.

I don't think any drafted QB with some skill or brain will do poorly with our offense. If we can make Gus look good, we can make anyone a star. SF doesn't have a star RB duo, no go-to WRs, no healthy go-to TEs, horrid O-Line, bad defense. NYG had bad WRs and below average O-Line. Heck, Indy's O-Line was putrid during Manning's first years. Palmer had a bad D, etc. So there's no reason a QB wouldn't do well with our offense.

finfansince72
12-20-2005, 10:12 PM
A. Smith is going through what every QB goes through....adjustments....

Remember Manning's rookie season? What a stinker that was...

Yea Mannings first season wasnt great but he looked really good at times. He made throws that gave you hope, he showed glimpses of great talent. Smith looks like I would if I played Qb in the NFL, he literally looks talentless and completely lost. That rook Fitzgerald on the Rams looks more talented than Smith and he came from an Ivy League school and was a really late pick.

nopony
12-20-2005, 10:14 PM
I can't stand Leinart for personal reasons, but it is ridiculous to say you know he is going to fall flat on his face. Ridiculous.

There is nothing about Leinart that says he's bad. There are things that make it difficult to be sure how GOOD he is, but nothing that says he's bad.

As for the mock... my only major disagreement at first glance is that I think he has Miami giving up much too little to move up to #2. I don't see that happening. Not at that price. Someone would make a much better offer than that.

Gonzo
12-20-2005, 10:20 PM
As for the mock... my only major disagreement at first glance is that I think he has Miami giving up much too little to move up to #2. I don't see that happening. Not at that price. Someone would make a much better offer than that.

I agree. Ricky is still a big risk off the field. Not that I would mind if SF went stupid on us.

tylerdolphin
12-20-2005, 10:25 PM
At least Matt would be better than Vince Young...

ChambersWI
12-20-2005, 10:25 PM
Question for Boomer, whats up with A.Smith? He looks so bad it brings Ryan Leaf back to mind. You think he is going to be a starter or is he just this bad? Man he looks so bad I think SF needs to take a Qb late first day/early second day or sign a decent vet. I somewhat believed much of the hype simply because I never saw much of him in college and just assumed scouts actually watched him play.

I'm not Boomer, but IMO he was put in a bad situation.

Everything about Alex Smith coming out of college screamed project. He has great athleticism and is smart, but he played in a gimmick offense. It will take him a year or two to become NFL ready. Also, he no longer has Parris Warren and Steve Savoy as his WRs going up against BYU. And to be honest he was considered a 3rd rounder after his bowl game, but he shot up draft boards once Leinhart decided to stay in college. So really Smith is a victim of a weak QB class & a new head coach wanting his first pick to be the face of the franchise, and believing what some random guy said about Rodgers being less ready. I am not saying Rodgers is going to be better, but IMO Rodgers would've been a better fit for a team like the 9ers. He was more ready to be a starter right away, while Smith was the one that needed to sit.

I'll admit I had us taking Smith in one of my later mocks, but that was mainly because of the depth of RBs in the draft and Ricky potentially coming back. Plus, I knew he wouldn't start right away

Alex44
12-20-2005, 10:26 PM
1 - Please. LOL.

2 and 3 contradict each other. Ive seen many USC games and never have I seen 8 in the box. NOt with the great receivers they have.

4- did you see the OB against OU? Most accurate deep passer I seen since my boy Gino.

5 - you have a point.

6- is a joke. LSU being better is VERY debatable. Auburn was definitley not better. And Texas does not win that game this year. If they do, it'll be close and Young will have to play the game of his life.

NO one and I mean NO ONE is crushing the Trojans in Pasadena. That's foolish to say.


all your points were dead wrong besides 5

and LSU was far superior that year, Auburn would have crushed USC

and I plan on watching USC get crushed by Texas this year and finally exposed for what they are

Jimmy James
12-20-2005, 10:26 PM
The trade itself is one of the better ones I have seen..it actually has me thinking...

That trade is insane on the part of the Niners if I have it right. Somebody actually thinks they'd take Ricky, Miami's 1st in 2006, and Miami's 2nd in 2007 to move down 13? Hell, I'll say it right now -- I fully support drafting ML if it costs Miami no more than this.

kastofsna120
12-20-2005, 10:27 PM
lol, alex's points are all just "wrong" and "not true." funny that he would say leinart has a weak deep ball and young has a great deep ball, when that's COMPLETELY FALSE. it's not even debatable. ask ANY SCOUT and they will agree

tylerdolphin
12-20-2005, 10:31 PM
Hasnt anyone learnt yet that Alex LOVES Young with a passion, and Matt Lienart obviously peed in his Cheerios...

Regan21286
12-20-2005, 10:31 PM
lol, alex's points are all just "wrong" and "not true." funny that he would say leinart has a weak deep ball and young has a great deep ball, when that's COMPLETELY FALSE. it's not even debatable. ask ANY SCOUT and they will agree

He's a Texas fan. Obviously it's gone to his head. Leinart's deep ball is good enough. Just ask Dwayne Jarrett.

As for me, I hope SF's stupid enough to make that trade. It'll help us for sure.


Hasnt anyone learnt yet that Alex LOVES Young with a passion, and Matt Lienart obviously peed in his Cheerios...

Maybe he got dumped by Leinart and is all bitter. :lol:

ChambersWI
12-20-2005, 10:34 PM
all your points were dead wrong besides 5

and LSU was far superior that year, Auburn would have crushed USC

and I plan on watching USC get crushed by Texas this year and finally exposed for what they are

Auburn would not have crushed USC last year. USC's defense had 5 1st Team All-Americans and 2 2nd team All-Americans. You add Patterson,Cody,Tatupu, and Grootegood to Wyatt,Bing,Jackson,Latsui, and Rucker and you've got a pretty good defense.

Grootegood and Tatupu were the two quickest LBs in the nation, and there was not a better DT combo in the country than Cody/Patterson.

LSU would've given the 03 USC team a run for their money since they had a good defense, and the best trio of WRs in the Nation (Clayton,Henderson,Green), but you add all of the defenders I mentioned to USC plus Will Poole and then add Mike Williams and Kerry Colbert to the USC WR corp and Jacob Rogers to the OL. It's still hard to put LSU over USC

Agent51
12-20-2005, 10:36 PM
4- did you see the OB against OU? Most accurate deep passer I seen since my boy Gino.

.

PLEASE don't tell me you are talking about Gino Torretta? If so then you basically just compared Matt Leinart to Gino Torretta, and we all know how THAT one turned out...........

Seriously, if you mean Gino T then you're argument is completely worthless now because you are trying to argue that Leinart will be a great NFL QB yet you compare him to Gino Torretta (I'm assuming it's him, he's the only Gino QB I know of) who is quite possibly the biggets bust EVER.

Alex44
12-20-2005, 10:37 PM
Auburn would not have crushed USC last year. USC's defense had 5 1st Team All-Americans and 2 2nd team All-Americans. You add Patterson,Cody,Tatupu, and Grootegood to Wyatt,Bing,Jackson,Latsui, and Rucker and you've got a pretty good defense.

Grootegood and Tatupu were the two quickest LBs in the nation, and there was not a better DT combo in the country than Cody/Patterson.

LSU would've given the 03 USC team a run for their money since they had a good defense, and the best trio of WRs in the Nation (Clayton,Henderson,Green), but you add all of the defenders I mentioned to USC plus Will Poole and then add Mike Williams and Kerry Colbert to the USC WR corp and Jacob Rogers to the OL. It's still hard to put LSU over USC

Auburn was an undefeated team with a far harder schedule than USC

LSU I think would have easily handled USC regardless of who was on that team, yeah the defense was great but LSU wasnt a pushover either

I watched a lot of LSU and USC that year and I always came away more impressed by LSU

Auburn is debatable but imo they would have run the ball controlled the clock and shut USC down

chrome4
12-20-2005, 10:39 PM
19. Atlanta Falcons: Marcus McNeill, OT (Auburn)

Quick…name the Falcon’s starting tackles…exactly.

:lol: :lol:

tylerdolphin
12-20-2005, 10:40 PM
Auburn was an undefeated team with a far harder schedule than USC

LSU I think would have easily handled USC regardless of who was on that team, yeah the defense was great but LSU wasnt a pushover either

I watched a lot of LSU and USC that year and I always came away more impressed by LSU

Auburn is debatable but imo they would have run the ball controlled the clock and shut USC down

Dude...you just hate USC beyond sanity

ChambersWI
12-20-2005, 10:41 PM
Auburn was an undefeated team with a far harder schedule than USC

LSU I think would have easily handled USC regardless of who was on that team, yeah the defense was great but LSU wasnt a pushover either

I watched a lot of LSU and USC that year and I always came away more impressed by LSU

Auburn is debatable but imo they would have run the ball controlled the clock and shut USC down

Auburn played the freakin' CITADEL last year. There is no way they have any success on the ground if Patterson and Cody are on USCs D-Line, and they sure as hell aren't having success against Tatutpu and Grootegood.

LSU had a great team two years ago, but even that D could not stop Williams and Colbert. That USC team also had the nation's best punt/fg blocker in Will Poole.

ChambersWI
12-20-2005, 10:41 PM
19. Atlanta Falcons: Marcus McNeill, OT (Auburn)

Quick…name the Falcon’s starting tackles…exactly.

:lol: :lol:

won't happen. Gibbs (Atlanta's OL coach) hates big tackles and 1st round tackles.

Regan21286
12-20-2005, 10:42 PM
Dude...you just hate USC beyond sanity

I'm a UCLA student and I don't even hate USC that badly.

tylerdolphin
12-20-2005, 10:45 PM
Honestly, I think if USC went another 746532867 games without losing, Alex would still say that they arent that good

poornate
12-20-2005, 11:02 PM
all your points were dead wrong besides 5

and LSU was far superior that year, Auburn would have crushed USC

and I plan on watching USC get crushed by Texas this year and finally exposed for what they are


If Texas crushes USC I'll tatoo there logo on my friggin' forehead....

PhinBeck
12-20-2005, 11:06 PM
I am not huge Leinart fan as many can attest. But it is waaayyyy to premature to say that Leinart will be a complete bust. I question his arm strength, but he has everything else and people like Boomer and KB think his arm is strong enough so I respect their ability to judge talent.

I will say I would be a reallly happy camper if we got AJ hawk in teh 1st and Cutler in the second. Doubt very seriously that there is any chance in HeII we get Hawk, tho.

I do IMO think getting a stud cb or lb in rd 1 and Cutler is our best bet. Even tho I respect KB and Boomer, there is just something about Leinart I am not sold on. I do not scout like many do tho so I am not the expert to ask. Leinart has had the best talent around him in his three years and like I said he doesnt seem to throw the deep out with any zip IMO. Makes me nervous. But I have to admit the intangibles are impressive. He could be ready first year in the right system. I just dont know that Linehan is the right system.

PhinBeck
12-20-2005, 11:07 PM
If Texas crushes USC I'll tatoo there logo on my friggin' forehead....


Me too, well not really, but USC has too many weapons.

tylerdolphin
12-20-2005, 11:10 PM
I highly doubt Cutler will even be there for the 1st pick in round 2, much less where we pick

ether79
12-20-2005, 11:10 PM
You're the same guy who thinks Tom Brady is overrated, and thinks Vince Young is the end all be all of college Q.B.'s

Did'nt you also say that Leinart should try to be more like you?

He also said Bush will be a bust in the NFL....I had a few of his great statements in my sig for awhile.

nolefin
12-20-2005, 11:12 PM
I think lineart will be decent but i just dont like left handed qb's, my preference is a right handed qb dont ask me why? cutler > lineart imo.

grendel
12-20-2005, 11:19 PM
It would be a mint deal.

Hey Boomer, I really respect your opinion. You called RB from the start last year and I'll never doubt you again. I can't believe some of the newbies are questioning your wisdom. Anyways, what in your opinion would it take for Nick to reallisticly trade up to No 2?

grendel
12-20-2005, 11:31 PM
I am not huge Leinart fan as many can attest. But it is waaayyyy to premature to say that Leinart will be a complete bust. I question his arm strength, but he has everything else and people like Boomer and KB think his arm is strong enough so I respect their ability to judge talent.

I will say I would be a reallly happy camper if we got AJ hawk in teh 1st and Cutler in the second. Doubt very seriously that there is any chance in HeII we get Hawk, tho.

I do IMO think getting a stud cb or lb in rd 1 and Cutler is our best bet. Even tho I respect KB and Boomer, there is just something about Leinart I am not sold on. I do not scout like many do tho so I am not the expert to ask. Leinart has had the best talent around him in his three years and like I said he doesnt seem to throw the deep out with any zip IMO. Makes me nervous. But I have to admit the intangibles are impressive. He could be ready first year in the right system. I just dont know that Linehan is the right system.

Actually, he is perfect in linehan's system, because he throws a very accurate deep ball, which is the problem with Gus. Gus tries to cannon everything in, hence alot of drop balls by CC. Gus does not have the touch. The other thing with Linehart is he has a great ability to check down and find the open man. Linhans system does not require a QB to throw that deep out with zip, that's more a norv turner thing. Linehan likes the long ball which requires more touch than velocity!

Alex44
12-20-2005, 11:37 PM
If Texas crushes USC I'll tatoo there logo on my friggin' forehead....


wow I cant wait to see it

lets define crush now so there is no way for you to get out of it

kastofsna120
12-20-2005, 11:39 PM
Actually, he is perfect in linehan's system, because he throws a very accurate deep ball, which is the problem with Gus. Gus tries to cannon everything in, hence alot of drop balls by CC. Gus does not have the touch. The other thing with Linehart is he has a great ability to check down and find the open man. Linhans system does not require a QB to throw that deep out with zip, that's more a norv turner thing. Linehan likes the long ball which requires more touch than velocity!
chambers has dropped easy passes, he's dropped hard passes, and he's dropped passes not thrown by frerotte. that's not the excuse

PhinBeck
12-20-2005, 11:42 PM
Actually, he is perfect in linehan's system, because he throws a very accurate deep ball, which is the problem with Gus. Gus tries to cannon everything in, hence alot of drop balls by CC. Gus does not have the touch. The other thing with Linehart is he has a great ability to check down and find the open man. Linhans system does not require a QB to throw that deep out with zip, that's more a norv turner thing. Linehan likes the long ball which requires more touch than velocity!


But leinart doesnt have the best arm for teh deep ball. It is good enough in College, but in teh pros it is a diff story, receivers dont generally get the kind of separation they do in college. If Leinart has to throw rainbows to get it deep, dbs have the makeup speed to break it up in the NFL that isnt as prevalent in the college game. Accuracy is a great attribute and I agree he is very accurate, but he has to be able to get it there in front of the db as well.

finfan54
12-20-2005, 11:42 PM
It would take a hell of alot more than Ricky "big risk" Williams to drop down that far. I dont see Saban doing that at all. And i sure as hell do not see SF trading for Ricky when they can just drop way less than that and get a young RB.

Tommatt
12-20-2005, 11:44 PM
wow I cant wait to see it

lets define crush now so there is no way for you to get out of it

Crushed is a strong word. I'd consider crushed myself being 20 points. I mean, getting whupped is 14, so crushed has to be more than that.

being an Ohio ST fan, I can't see Texas beating USC.

finfan54
12-20-2005, 11:45 PM
Actually, he is perfect in linehan's system, because he throws a very accurate deep ball, which is the problem with Gus. Gus tries to cannon everything in, hence alot of drop balls by CC. Gus does not have the touch. The other thing with Linehart is he has a great ability to check down and find the open man. Linhans system does not require a QB to throw that deep out with zip, that's more a norv turner thing. Linehan likes the long ball which requires more touch than velocity!

leinert was terrible in the UCLA game. He was so way off his mark its not funny. I think he is a bit overrated. Im not saying he wont be a good QB, but i think once he gets to the pros, he will be snakebit for a while cus the NFL is not USC going against the pacific coast conference.

Alex44
12-20-2005, 11:47 PM
Crushed is a strong word. I'd consider crushed myself being 20 points. I mean, getting whupped is 14, so crushed has to be more than that.

being an Ohio ST fan, I can't see Texas beating USC.

imo Ohio State is better than Notre Dame

and leinart struggled more vs ND than young did vs Ohio State

Dubfire
12-20-2005, 11:49 PM
PLEASE don't tell me you are talking about Gino Torretta? If so then you basically just compared Matt Leinart to Gino Torretta, and we all know how THAT one turned out...........

Seriously, if you mean Gino T then you're argument is completely worthless now because you are trying to argue that Leinart will be a great NFL QB yet you compare him to Gino Torretta (I'm assuming it's him, he's the only Gino QB I know of) who is quite possibly the biggets bust EVER.


Is Gino the only word you read in my post?

can you read?

Who's comparing Gino to Leinart. Only common theing they both have is a Heisman and a very nice, ACCURATE deep ball. Matt as I sad has the best I seen since Gino. No one's making any comparisons.

Get over yourself.

Alex44
12-20-2005, 11:49 PM
Is Gino the only word you read in my post?

can you read?

Who's comparing Gino to Leinart. Only common theing they both have is a Heisman and a very nice, ACCURATE deep ball. Matt as I sad has the best I seen since Gino. No one's making any comparisons.

Get over yourself.


You compared their deep balls

thats a comparison

fishypete
12-20-2005, 11:51 PM
You know...there's a reason that Boomer is a draft guru.

I'll bite....whats the reason?:tongue:

poornate
12-20-2005, 11:51 PM
wow I cant wait to see it

lets define crush now so there is no way for you to get out of it

You should wory less about the definition of crushed and more about how Texas can stay competitive long enough for people to see the halftime show without changing the channel......

kastofsna120
12-20-2005, 11:51 PM
Is Gino the only word you read in my post?

can you read?

Who's comparing Gino to Leinart. Only common theing they both have is a Heisman and a very nice, ACCURATE deep ball. Matt as I sad has the best I seen since Gino. No one's making any comparisons.

Get over yourself.
i thought you meant gino guidugli :goof:

Dubfire
12-20-2005, 11:52 PM
I'm a UCLA student and I don't even hate USC that badly.


I am Miami Alumnus and I ENVY USC right now.

There is NOTHING and NEVER has been anything to envy about Texas.

This kid is just trying to psyche himself up for a UT beatdown of USC in the Rose Bowl of all places. :sidelol:

Not going to happen.

I'm not even a Leinart nut hugger or detractor, but when people make insane comments, I just have to chime in.

ANd then they say I'm comparing Gino Toretta to Matt Leinart and arguing that Leinart will be GREAT in the NFL.

I guess hate can make someone blind obviosuly.

BigScuingili
12-20-2005, 11:53 PM
Im not even argueing this

anyone who buys into the leinart or usc hype isnt worth my time
No one puts much stock into anything you say on this board. Anyone who goes around acting as a Vince Young groupie is not worth anyone elses time. What has Vince Young proven? Nada period. After he loses big to Leinart and USC, what will your excuse be? Texas was undercoached, Vince ran too much, or the etc.. Leinart has proven time and time again he is great QB and worthy of the rewards and accolades he receives.

FuturePhin
12-20-2005, 11:53 PM
Its this simple. Matt Leinart WILL succeed. If that trade does happen I would be thrilled. I would need extra napkins to contain myself when Big Paul announces the pick. Just look at what the "mobile" qb's have done in the NFL. They either choke or they suck all together. They also dont seem to have any touch to their throws. Give me Leinart leading this team for the next 10 years, and Ill be happy.

Dubfire
12-20-2005, 11:55 PM
You compared their deep balls

thats a comparison


deep balls and ability and prospects as a pro are 2 completely different things...

i just hope you are around when UT loses by 14+..which is VERY likely...


although a 49-45 USC win is more likely..their defense leaves a lot to be desired

fishypete
12-20-2005, 11:57 PM
1 - Please. LOL.

2 and 3 contradict each other. Ive seen many USC games and never have I seen 8 in the box. NOt with the great receivers they have.

4- did you see the OB against OU? Most accurate deep passer I seen since my boy Gino.

5 - you have a point.

6- is a joke. LSU being better is VERY debatable. Auburn was definitley not better. And Texas does not win that game this year. If they do, it'll be close and Young will have to play the game of his life.

NO one and I mean NO ONE is crushing the Trojans in Pasadena. That's foolish to say.

"NO one and I mean NO ONE is crushing the Trojans in Pasadena. That's foolish to say"

Let me say it then....Texas will crush USC...and I don't care where they play...USC hasn't played a defense like Texas has....the ace that USC has is Bush....it always has been Bush.

HysterikiLL
12-20-2005, 11:57 PM
You compared their deep balls

thats a comparison

Dude you have 150 posts a day, wtf. Take it easy!

Tommatt
12-20-2005, 11:58 PM
I see it being a high scoring game decided by 5 points. WHats the spread at anyways? I might hae to bet on texas. (if the spread is rediculous)

Dubfire
12-20-2005, 11:59 PM
"NO one and I mean NO ONE is crushing the Trojans in Pasadena. That's foolish to say"

Let me say it then....Texas will crush USC...and I don't care where they play...USC hasn't played a defense like Texas has....the ace that USC has is Bush....it always has been Bush.


time will tell...

opinions are like..well you know...

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 12:00 AM
alex is a 15 year old wide receiver in high school. he's cleraly just obsessed with sportscenter highlights

Dubfire
12-21-2005, 12:01 AM
"NO one and I mean NO ONE is crushing the Trojans in Pasadena. That's foolish to say"

Let me say it then....Texas will crush USC...and I don't care where they play...USC hasn't played a defense like Texas has....the ace that USC has is Bush....it always has been Bush.


HAs UT seen and offense or skill players the likes of whch USC has? NOt in the big 12.

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 12:01 AM
texas has an overrated defense. their front 7 will be completely dominated. another big 12 team will be exposed

FuturePhin
12-21-2005, 12:02 AM
alex is a 15 year old wide receiver in high school. he's cleraly just obsessed with sportscenter highlights

You sure he's a football player even? Sure he isnt a cheerleader ;) :D

sports24/7
12-21-2005, 12:02 AM
I'm pretty high on Lienart as it is, but if Boomer gives him his endorsement I'm sold. The guy studies game film of just about everyone in college and has been doing it for years. If thats not enough, Mel Kieper said in a recent chat that Lienart will have a higher overall grade than Eli Manning and will be around where Carson Palmer was rated. Anyone that doubts him I just don't get it. He does have talent around him, but the guy just flat out makes plays when they need to be made. He would be by far my top choice in the draft.

FuturePhin
12-21-2005, 12:04 AM
texas has an overrated defense. their front 7 will be completely dominated. another big 12 team will be exposed



I agree. Nobody is stopping USC this year. If you stop the run they'll kill you wiith the passing and they'll always find a way to get Reggie the ball. Its unstopable.

fishypete
12-21-2005, 12:05 AM
time will tell...

opinions are like..well you know...

I agree about opinions...but when you look at the facts...there usually on the target....look at the defense's between Texas and USC....Texas is far better..less points and yards against them....than USC. Texas beat one of the best defense's in college football...Ohio State....USC?

Like I said....Bush is the key for USC....Not Leinart....it's been that way for the last two years....without Bush....USC doesn't even play in the Rose Bowl.


Here's the list of the defense's in college....notice where Texas is and then USC is....notice how many points each gave up during the season....total yards...etc.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/sortableStatsTeam?div=CFB&stype=DEFENSE&stable=overall&stat=overallPtsGm&dir=ascending

BigScuingili
12-21-2005, 12:06 AM
If Carson Palmer is this great, just think about how Leinart will be from the same system. Pete Carrol can flat out produce players.

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 12:11 AM
I agree about opinions...but when you look at the facts...there usually on the target....look at the defense's between Texas and USC....Texas is far better..less points and yards against them....than USC. Texas beat one of the best defense's in college football...Ohio State....USC?

Like I said....Bush is the key for USC....Not Leinart....it's been that way for the last two years....without Bush....USC doesn't even play in the Rose Bowl.


Here's the list of the defense's in college....notice where Texas is and then USC is....notice how many points each gave up during the season....total yards...etc.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/sortableStatsTeam?div=CFB&stype=DEFENSE&stable=overall&stat=overallPtsGm&dir=ascending
texas's worst game offensively was against ohio state. USC has domianted every defense easily. aside from the linebackers, OSU's defense isn't that great, yet young still struggled. he'll be even worse against USC

Dubfire
12-21-2005, 12:13 AM
I agree about opinions...but when you look at the facts...there usually on the target....look at the defense's between Texas and USC....Texas is far better..less points and yards against them....than USC. Texas beat one of the best defense's in college football...Ohio State....USC?

Like I said....Bush is the key for USC....Not Leinart....it's been that way for the last two years....without Bush....USC doesn't even play in the Rose Bowl.


Here's the list of the defense's in college....notice where Texas is and then USC is....notice how many points each gave up during the season....total yards...etc.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/sortableStatsTeam?div=CFB&stype=DEFENSE&stable=overall&stat=overallPtsGm&dir=ascending

I know USC plays in a conference that does not play any defense. But no one can argue with the skill position players they have. Jarret, White and BUsh are future stars in the NFL....when you are loaded with that much talent, it's tough to contain.

Did you see what USC did to UT's daddy in the OB last year?

If that did not make you a believer in Leinart or USC, what will? I mean seriously?

grendel
12-21-2005, 12:15 AM
chambers has dropped easy passes, he's dropped hard passes, and he's dropped passes not thrown by frerotte. that's not the excuse
But you have to admit, that Gus does not know when to throw the soft touch, catchable ball! Gus guns everything and that is not always the best ball. Also he is REALY bad with the red zone fade ball!

fishypete
12-21-2005, 12:15 AM
texas's worst game offensively was against ohio state. USC has domianted every defense easily. aside from the linebackers, OSU's defense isn't that great, yet young still struggled. he'll be even worse against USC

Again...you have no idea what your talking about....Ohio State had one of the best defense's in all college football....only 3000 yds total against them...less than 15 points a game average against them....and Texas beat them....USC hasn't faced a defense anything like Ohio State. The best defense that USC faced was Fresno State....and there rated below USC.

fishypete
12-21-2005, 12:23 AM
I know USC plays in a conference that does not play any defense. But no one can argue with the skill position players they have. Jarret, White and BUsh are future stars in the NFL....when you are loaded with that much talent, it's tough to contain.

Did you see what USC did to UT's daddy in the OB last year?

If that did not make you a believer in Leinart or USC, what will? I mean seriously?

And Texas doesn't have matching talent on offense? They are both even in points per game....they are close on rushing yards and both are efficient and effective in the passing game. Like I said before....the key for USC is Bush...and for Texas...the running game and defense.

Dubfire
12-21-2005, 12:30 AM
And Texas doesn't have matching talent on offense? They are both even in points per game....they are close on rushing yards and both are efficient and effective in the passing game. Like I said before....the key for USC is Bush...and for Texas...the running game and defense.

NO sorry. I dont think anyone can match USC's talent on offense. Have you seen how they have recruited the past 4-5 years? THey are LOADED. I know Bush is the catalyst and Leinart is the key, but if you think they dont have much beyond that..you're really fooling yourself.

You'll see.

No one still cannot explain to me how USC made UT's Daddy look like a HS team last year in the OB.

ANd the reason I say no one is crushing the Trojans in Pasadena is because it will be a freakin' home game for them.

WitheringPlant
12-21-2005, 12:32 AM
Im not even argueing this

anyone who buys into the leinart or usc hype isnt worth my time
Worth your time? You post 150 posts a day, and you use time as an excuse?:rolleyes:

tylerdolphin
12-21-2005, 12:47 AM
If USC gets a lead, just turn off the TV

grendel
12-21-2005, 12:49 AM
If USC looses, willl Llinehart drop a bit?

Alex44
12-21-2005, 12:51 AM
If USC gets a lead, just turn off the TV


ok so 3-0 we should turn off the T.V?

Nope sorry Im watching the whole game

Texas will crush USC by at least 16 points

tylerdolphin
12-21-2005, 12:51 AM
I hate USC, and I want them to win just because of Alex

EDIT: how do you put a quote in your sig? I want to put in my sig what Alex just said about USC losing by 16. Just so when Texas loses, I can laugh

King Felix
12-21-2005, 12:53 AM
no need for this thread nemore alex22 is obviously a vince young/texas homer when usc owns texas he will now aboard the leinhart wagon cuz leinhart will have passed for 300 yards and at least 2 tds

ether79
12-21-2005, 12:55 AM
I hate USC, and I want them to win just because of Alex

EDIT: how do you put a quote in your sig? I want to put in my sig what Alex just said about USC losing by 16. Just so when Texas loses, I can laugh

Quote the post then copy it, then go to your user cp and edit sig and then paste it into your sig.

phinfanNY08
12-21-2005, 12:59 AM
THE DOLPHINS ARE NOT TRADING RICKY WILLIAMS!:fire:

idk how many times that has to be said

tylerdolphin
12-21-2005, 01:01 AM
Quote the post then copy it, then go to your user cp and edit sig and then paste it into your sig.
thanks

dominizzo
12-21-2005, 01:02 AM
ok so 3-0 we should turn off the T.V?

Nope sorry Im watching the whole game

Texas will crush USC by at least 16 points

ur buddy kasto will buzzz :sidelol:

Alex44
12-21-2005, 01:04 AM
no need for this thread nemore alex22 is obviously a vince young/texas homer when usc owns texas he will now aboard the leinhart wagon cuz leinhart will have passed for 300 yards and at least 2 tds

I dont like texas at all really, but young is the best QB in college and texas is a better team

I dont care if leinart plays well, he doesnt have what it takes to play NFL football

ether79
12-21-2005, 01:04 AM
thanks

Yep, I had three of his gems in my sig for a couple of days, but then realized that it isn't really worth the space.

Alex44
12-21-2005, 01:05 AM
Yep, I had three of his gems in my sig for a couple of days, but then realized that it isn't really worth the space.


Just tell me how you like your crow now

Because im 100% sure leinart wont be a good NFL QB

djfresh47
12-21-2005, 01:06 AM
And Texas doesn't have matching talent on offense? They are both even in points per game....they are close on rushing yards and both are efficient and effective in the passing game. Like I said before....the key for USC is Bush...and for Texas...the running game and defense.

Sweed is a good player, but he'd probably be the #3 at USC. USC may have the best two running backs in the country, Maroney is good but I don't know if he's better than White. Texas is a very good team, but I can't see them beating USC, because nobody has beat USC. Young is great and all, but I don't think Texas is better than Oklahoma last year, and look what happened to them.

tylerdolphin
12-21-2005, 01:07 AM
What does Mr. Better than Vince Young's (Leinart) NFL carrer have to do with my sig?

ether79
12-21-2005, 01:13 AM
Just tell me how you like your crow now

Because im 100% sure leinart wont be a good NFL QB

Just tell me how you like yours when Bush obviously becomes what he is going to become...and that isn't a bust like you think. I'll eat my crow if that happens. I'm not going anywhere, you however I don't know about though.

Lets see we have

1. Leinart = Ken Dorsey
2. Leinart will be a bust in the NFL
3. Bush will be a bust in the NFL
4. USC loses by 16

good stuff :goof:

tylerdolphin
12-21-2005, 01:19 AM
The entire USC roster will never be anything in the NFL if you ask him.

King Felix
12-21-2005, 01:22 AM
^thats for sure

MiamiMan147
12-21-2005, 01:28 AM
Lets see... Shaun Alexander and Edgerrin James could have been had last season for a 2nd rounder, but the 9er's are gonna trade down 14 spots for Ricky and next year's #2? Every SF fan on the planet would spontaneously combust if they made that trade.

FinSinceBirth
12-21-2005, 01:33 AM
First of all, I am neither a Young supporter or a Leinhart supporter. I am personally indifferent to both because we have no chance at getting them.
But I do however find some flaws with your argument that I must point out.


3 National Titles potentially, 1 Heisman,
Both of these are completely irrelevant when judging Qb's. Honestly, how many of the great qb's who are in the NFL right now have won national titles.

Peyton Manning didn't.
Matt Hasselback didn't.
Brady didn't.
Eli didn't
Delhomme didn't. (you can probably argue he isn't the best, but he seems to be settled in carolina.)
And I'm pretty sure Palmer didn't
Etc. Etc. I'm too tired to think of the other Qb's in the Nfl. But tell me at least five current good starters who have won the big show.

Also, how many of those Qb's can you name who were heisman winners..
Palmer is the only one.

Now tell me how many of those Heisman winners were total flops.


Leinart has the best touch of any passer I've studied in nigh on 20 years.

As for this it must be an exaggeration, because your age lists you as 31. If you have been studying Qb's for twenty years, that would mean you have been studying them since you were 11. And I doubt that is true.

Agent51
12-21-2005, 01:55 AM
Is Gino the only word you read in my post?

can you read?

Who's comparing Gino to Leinart. Only common theing they both have is a Heisman and a very nice, ACCURATE deep ball. Matt as I sad has the best I seen since Gino. No one's making any comparisons.

Get over yourself.

Get over myself!? Chill the F out dude, damn, I was asking a question. Can YOU read? You said:

"He's the most accurate passer I've seen since my boy Gino"

If you say someone is "the most _____ you have seen since_____" then that is called COMPARING them. You compared Leinart's accuracy to Gino's.

You need to freakin' chill dude, you said the quote, not me, I just questioned you on it. Maybe you should have worded it differently if you didn't want to compare Leinart to Toretta, because yyou did with that statement.

FYI, Leinart does NOT have a "very nice, ACCURATE deep ball". His deep passes lack "zip" and they tend to "float", giving DBs on deep balls plenty of time to get to them too. Not to mention he isn't "very good" at hitting his rcievers in stride, they usually break stride or have to jump or bend down or reach to the right or left. Yeah, he has thrown some beauties, but what college QB hasn't made some highlight-reel throws before?

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 01:57 AM
As for this it must be an exaggeration, because your age lists you as 31. If you have been studying Qb's for twenty years, that would mean you have been studying them since you were 11. And I doubt that is true.
yes, because film had not been invented until about 8-10 years ago

Agent51
12-21-2005, 02:07 AM
texas's worst game offensively was against ohio state. USC has domianted every defense easily. aside from the linebackers, OSU's defense isn't that great, yet young still struggled. he'll be even worse against USC

They may have dominated the defenses but their defenses got dominated also, there were close games against teams that shouldn't have been close.

Bottom Line, Texas has a top 10 ranked offense AND defense, USC has top 10 ranked offense and a defense ranked in the 60s.

Texas's offense beats USC's in some categories

USC's defense beats Texas' offense in ZERO categories, and losses BY FAR, any catageory opffensively that Texas gives up to USC isn't by more than a few rank spots.

So, a top ranked offense + top ranked defense > top ranked offense + very low ranked defense.

Not garunteeing a Texas win, but I will garuntee it isn't a repeat of last year vs OU. It will be close, a shootout that Texas should win because their D can get more key stops than USC's D.

and Like FishyPete said, BUSH is USC, not Leinart. Leinart makes plenty of mistakes, and I have noticed that he pads his stats against crappy teams but when he plays tough oponents he makes his mistakes, liek throwing INTs when the ball should have never been thrown, throwing off-target etc etc.

Once you start putting FACTS behind your arguments then people can take them seriously. Your "because I say so" logic is so elementary school it's ridiculous. It obviously doesn't work out to well for you either Mr. "UCLA is a much tougher oponent for USC than Fresno State, PERIOD, if you disagree you are wrong" HA, good job buddy, too bad Fresno almost had em (like I said) and UCLA got SLAUGHTERED.

phinphan4life
12-21-2005, 02:08 AM
To me the most hilarious thing about this thread is the inordinate amount of posts that Alex22 has and his join date is December of this year!!! If you post that much in that short a period of time you can't possibly have anything relevant to say. :sidelol: :sidelol:

Agent51
12-21-2005, 02:09 AM
I know USC plays in a conference that does not play any defense. But no one can argue with the skill position players they have. Jarret, White and BUsh are future stars in the NFL....when you are loaded with that much talent, it's tough to contain.

Did you see what USC did to UT's daddy in the OB last year?

If that did not make you a believer in Leinart or USC, what will? I mean seriously?

Yea, and Texas BEAT OU this year.

Plus, with that logic (look at the skill position players they have....future NFL starters...etc etc) then Look at the Future DEFENSIVE NFL starters Texas has. Texas' defense matches up better with USC's offense than USC's defense matches up with Texas' offense.

Agent51
12-21-2005, 02:13 AM
I dont like texas at all really, but young is the best QB in college and texas is a better team

I dont care if leinart plays well, he doesnt have what it takes to play NFL football

Just curious, who IS your college team?

djfresh47
12-21-2005, 02:21 AM
They may have dominated the defenses but their defenses got dominated also, there were close games against teams that shouldn't have been close.

Bottom Line, Texas has a top 10 ranked offense AND defense, USC has top 10 ranked offense and a defense ranked in the 60s.

Texas's offense beats USC's in some categories

USC's defense beats Texas' offense in ZERO categories, and losses BY FAR, any catageory opffensively that Texas gives up to USC isn't by more than a few rank spots.

So, a top ranked offense + top ranked defense > top ranked offense + very low ranked defense.

Not garunteeing a Texas win, but I will garuntee it isn't a repeat of last year vs OU. It will be close, a shootout that Texas should win because their D can get more key stops than USC's D.

and Like FishyPete said, BUSH is USC, not Leinart. Leinart makes plenty of mistakes, and I have noticed that he pads his stats against crappy teams but when he plays tough oponents he makes his mistakes, liek throwing INTs when the ball should have never been thrown, throwing off-target etc etc.

Once you start putting FACTS behind your arguments then people can take them seriously. Your "because I say so" logic is so elementary school it's ridiculous. It obviously doesn't work out to well for you either Mr. "UCLA is a much tougher oponent for USC than Fresno State, PERIOD, if you disagree you are wrong" HA, good job buddy, too bad Fresno almost had em and UCLA got SLAUGHTERED.

I think a shootout favors USC. I doin't know about the Texas schedule this year, OSU was tough, but it was a relatively down year for the Big 12. Fresno had USC, so did Notre Dame, but they didn't win, just like A&M had Texas on the ropes with their backup Qb. I don't think a single player makes USC, Chow called Booty the most talented Qb he's ever worked with, and Bush does have one of the top backs in the country basically splitting time with him in White. Going against USC this year is like going against New England before this season. Texas is good, but if it's a high scoring game, I think i'd go with USC and their playmakers.

Agent51
12-21-2005, 02:27 AM
I think a shootout favors USC. I doin't know about the Texas schedule this year, OSU was tough, but it was a relatively down year for the Big 12. Fresno had USC, so did Notre Dame, but they didn't win, just like A&M had Texas on the ropes with their backup Qb. I don't think a single player makes USC, Chow called Booty the most talented Qb he's ever worked with, and Bush does have one of the top backs in the country basically splitting time with him in White. Going against USC this year is like going against New England before this season. Texas is good, but if it's a high scoring game, I think i'd go with USC and their playmakers.

I didn't mean a shootout saying that Texas' offense can overpower USC's, I obviously am fully aware that USC's offense is insane, there's no denying that. I said it would try to be a shootout because that is the game USC plays. They don't do defensive struggles, they CAN'T, because their defense isn't that good. So what I meant was this game won't be a defensive struggle, it will be MORE like a shootout because you know USC will be trying to run up the score as quickly as possible to get an early lead and make Texas come from behind, but Texas has a great offense too, comparable but not quite as good, so they will be able to hang in a high scoring affair. The difference will be the defense, because Texas will be able to get more key stops than USC's defense will. If they both had the exact same defense and their current offenses I would definately think USC will win (even though I shouldn't even admit that because I am a Texas fan) because they have the better offense, but their Ds aren't equal, Texas' is better, MUCH much better. It's going to be an awesome game, no matter who wins. I know who I'd like to win, and I know who I think CAN win, because of the reasons I stated, but I can't honestly say who I think the winner will be, I just know it will be a great game and it won't be another boring blowout like the OU game last year.

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 02:29 AM
They may have dominated the defenses but their defenses got dominated also, there were close games against teams that shouldn't have been close.

Bottom Line, Texas has a top 10 ranked offense AND defense, USC has top 10 ranked offense and a defense ranked in the 60s.

Texas's offense beats USC's in some categories

USC's defense beats Texas' offense in ZERO categories, and losses BY FAR, any catageory opffensively that Texas gives up to USC isn't by more than a few rank spots.

So, a top ranked offense + top ranked defense > top ranked offense + very low ranked defense.

Not garunteeing a Texas win, but I will garuntee it isn't a repeat of last year vs OU. It will be close, a shootout that Texas should win because their D can get more key stops than USC's D.

and Like FishyPete said, BUSH is USC, not Leinart. Leinart makes plenty of mistakes, and I have noticed that he pads his stats against crappy teams but when he plays tough oponents he makes his mistakes, liek throwing INTs when the ball should have never been thrown, throwing off-target etc etc.

Once you start putting FACTS behind your arguments then people can take them seriously. Your "because I say so" logic is so elementary school it's ridiculous. It obviously doesn't work out to well for you either Mr. "UCLA is a much tougher oponent for USC than Fresno State, PERIOD, if you disagree you are wrong" HA, good job buddy, too bad Fresno almost had em (like I said) and UCLA got SLAUGHTERED.
i don't care what categories texas has USC beat in, their defense isn't as good as advertised. they give up plays and get lucky with the pathetic offenses they face. OSU would've won that game handily had smith been in there the whole time. USC hasn't faced a defense like texas? texas hasn't faced an offense like USC. USC has arguably the best defense ever. texas has MAYBE a top 5 defense THIS YEAR. i wonder which will win this one?

Danny
12-21-2005, 02:45 AM
I only read the first page on this thread cos is up to over 100 and I don't feel like going thru all of it at almost 2am.I can't see SF being so stupid to trade down that far and only getting in return a 2nd next year plus Ricky.They'd want a whole lot more.

Ozzy rules!!

Go Italy 2006 world cup

Agent51
12-21-2005, 02:50 AM
i don't care what categories texas has USC beat in, their defense isn't as good as advertised. they give up plays and get lucky with the pathetic offenses they face. OSU would've won that game handily had smith been in there the whole time. USC hasn't faced a defense like texas? texas hasn't faced an offense like USC. USC has arguably the best defense ever. texas has MAYBE a top 5 defense THIS YEAR. i wonder which will win this one?

I almost stopped reading your post halfway through the first line, because again, your best defense is "I don't care" like you are some football knowledge god, but I decided to humor myself. I'm glad I did, because had I not continued to read your post I would have missed this little gem:

"USC has arguably the best defense ever......." :sidelol:

Yep, can't argue with these numbers:

Points Allowed Per Game: 27th

Rushing Yards Allowed Per Game: 24th
Rushing Yards Allowed Per Attempt: 29th

Passing Yards Allowed Per Game: 77th
Passing Yards Allowed Per Attempt: 50th

Total Yards Allowed Per Game: 40th
Total Yards Allowed Per Play: 44th

Overall Defensive Rank: 41st

Wow dude, last time I checked if a team had the best defense ever it was ranked #1 overall, this team isn't even ranked #1 in a single categorey, the closest it comes is 23 spots out of first place in rushing yards, so I guess they MIGHT have the best rushing defense ever :shakeno:

vmarcilfan75
12-21-2005, 02:51 AM
hey Alex22.......:nerd:

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 02:51 AM
I almost stopped reading your post halfway through the first line, because again, your best defense is "I don't care" like you are some football knowledge god, but I decided to humor myself. I'm glad I did, because had I not continued to read your post I would have missed this little gem:

"USC has arguably the best defense ever......." :sidelol:

Yep, can't argue with these numbers:

Points Allowed Per Game: 27th

Rushing Yards Allowed Per Game: 24th
Rushing Yards Per Allowed Attempt: 29th

Passing Yards Allowed Per Game: 77th
Passing Yards Per Allowed Attempt: 50th

Total Yards Allowed Per Game: 40th
Total Yards Per Allowed Play: 44th

Overall Defensive Rank: 41st

Wow dude, last time I checked if a team had the best defense ever it was ranked #1 overall, this team isn't even ranked #1 in a single categorey, the closest it comes is 23 spots out of first place in rushing yards, so I guess they MIGHT have the best rushing defense ever :shakeno:
i meant arguably the best offense ever

and no i DON'T care about stats because i've seen texas play, and they've managed to get away with a lot of things against inferior offenses. they won't be able to against USC's offense. the stats are deceiving

vmarcilfan75
12-21-2005, 02:54 AM
you guys are missing the keys to the game....coaching,experience and preparations

Carroll > Brown

Agent51
12-21-2005, 02:55 AM
i meant arguably the best offense ever

That I will give you, but I have never disputed that. I am merely stating that Texas' defense can come up with more key stops than USC's defense, and their offense should be able to hang as long as the D gets some stops. I never garunteed, or even said Texas would win, I'm not one of those people who always "garuntees" a victory for a team just because they are my favorite, I am simply stating that this game won't turn out like the OU game did, it will be interesting to watch. If Texas gets slaughter I will admit I was wrong, but I won't be "eating crow" or whatever that dumb phrase is because I'm not running my mouth or "garunteeing" anything like some people are.

BTW, that avatar is SO much cooler than the other one :lol:

Agent51
12-21-2005, 02:57 AM
and no i DON'T care about stats because i've seen texas play, and they've managed to get away with a lot of things against inferior offenses. they won't be able to against USC's offense. the stats are deceiving

Not really, maybe the offensive stats for Texas are decieving (they aren't, but it's arguable, so I'll let it go) but USC hasn't faced huge offenses every week and the good ones they did face couldn't have padded their D stats that much, USC just has a bad D period.

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 03:00 AM
Not really, maybe the offensive stats for Texas are decieving (they aren't, but it's arguable, so I'll let it go) but USC hasn't faced huge offenses every week and the good ones they did face couldn't have padded their D stats that much, USC just has a bad D period.
actually USC has faced several really good offenses. oregon, arizona state, notre dame, california, fresno state, UCLA

Agent51
12-21-2005, 03:03 AM
you guys are missing the keys to the game....coaching,experience and preparations

Carroll > Brown

Only ONE of those three are valid, realistically:

Coaching: You can't compare the coaching because they don't have equal talent on their teams. By saying Carroll is better than Brown you are implying that if Carroll was coaching Texas and Brown was coaching USC then Texas would win because Carroll is the better coach. Carroll has more talent to work with than Brown and yet Brown still managed to have an undefeated season and a win streak of his own, albeit not as long as USC's.

Experience: This is the only valid point. This will be Pete's 3rd trip in as many years, while it's only Mack's 1st (to the title game anyway, he was in the Rose Bowl last year). In this case, yes, Carroll does take the edge in experience.

Preperations: How do you know what each coach does to prepare their team? You can't say one has a better preparation method unless you have actually seen firsthand USC and Texas practices, film sessions, team meetings, team workouts, coach meeting, gameplan practices, opponent studies, etc etc.

Agent51
12-21-2005, 03:06 AM
actually USC has faced several really good offenses. oregon, arizona state, notre dame, california, fresno state, UCLA

And the only ones that did anything spectacular yardage and score-wise were ND and Fresno State, meaning the crappy offenses they faced must have racked up yardage and scores to make their defense ranked so low.

vmarcilfan75
12-21-2005, 03:36 AM
Only ONE of those three are valid, realistically:

Coaching: You can't compare the coaching because they don't have equal talent on their teams. By saying Carroll is better than Brown you are implying that if Carroll was coaching Texas and Brown was coaching USC then Texas would win because Carroll is the better coach. Carroll has more talent to work with than Brown and yet Brown still managed to have an undefeated season and a win streak of his own, albeit not as long as USC's.

Experience: This is the only valid point. This will be Pete's 3rd trip in as many years, while it's only Mack's 1st (to the title game anyway, he was in the Rose Bowl last year). In this case, yes, Carroll does take the edge in experience.

Preperations: How do you know what each coach does to prepare their team? You can't say one has a better preparation method unless you have actually seen firsthand USC and Texas practices, film sessions, team meetings, team workouts, coach meeting, gameplan practices, opponent studies, etc etc.

coaching...2 national championships..34 game win streak..45-1 since 02 nuff said

preperations..look what he did to OU. he shut them down. When they played UCLA we had the leading KR and he pooched every kickoff they had. Never once letting Drew return one. Have i seen them in person first hand?? of course not.

Miamifin23
12-21-2005, 03:52 AM
I would absolutely love that trade. Look at what the Giants gave up for Eli Manning, and Matt Leinart is a better QB coming into the pros than Eli was. They gave up a lot to get him. Giving up Williams, swap 1st's and next years second is a steal.

dlockz
12-21-2005, 04:14 AM
We will not draft Matt Leinhart because he is not a linehan type QB.

Agent51
12-21-2005, 04:18 AM
coaching...2 national championships..34 game win streak..45-1 since 02 nuff said

preperations..look what he did to OU. he shut them down. When they played UCLA we had the leading KR and he pooched every kickoff they had. Never once letting Drew return one. Have i seen them in person first hand?? of course not.

So you are saying if Mack Brown were the coach of USC and Pete Carroll the coach of Texas then Mack Brown wouldn't be able to have the 2 titles and 34 game streak and Pete Carroll would be able to do it with Texas? I don't think so man, USC has MUCH more to work with than Texas. With that theory Tony Dungy should be the best coach in the NFL right now because his Colt's have the best record. He isn't the best coach though, he is only 13-1 because he has arguably the most-talented team in the NFL. He's got a "big three" on offense, plus a pretty good TE and OLine, and he has a pretty good defense too. Pete Carroll would Not be on a 34 game win streak if he weren't at USC. I never said Pete wasn't a good coach, but you can't say he has better coaching just because they have that streak, hell, with weapons like that they had BETTER have that streak, that team is stacked, most games it's like an all-star team playing a below .500 team.

Of course he prepared good for those games, that's what a coach is supposed to do. Again, I never said he was bad a prepping, I just said you cannot compare the two and say Carroll preps the team better or is a better coach. They are different situations, they can't be compared. If ANYONE should be considered "better" it'd have to be Mack Brown, because he has the 12-0 season too, a pretty good undefeated streak (19 I think), and he's doing it with a less talented team. He's also got 15 winning seasons in a row with 13 consecutive bowl appearances. He is the only coach in division I-A with nine straight seasons of at least 9 wins and is ranked #2 in consecutive winning seasons and bowl berths. He is ranked 2nd in wins since 1990.

The point is, while you shouldn't compare them because one has a much more talent flled team, if you MUST compare them then Mack Brown is the better coach. He has been a CONSISTANT winner and leads or is in 2nd place for wins and win % etc etc while Pete Carroll didn't break out as "a great coach" till Leinart came into his own, among others. Pete's success is based on all his talent, you can't deny that because he struggled in the begining at USC, Mack Brown success is based on his coaching ability.

Yes, Carroll has the 2 titles, but again, it's not an accurate measure of the coach, you can be don shula and not win with the houstan texans, you have to have talent to win.

unifiedtheory
12-21-2005, 04:26 AM
ok so 3-0 we should turn off the T.V?

Nope sorry Im watching the whole game

Texas will crush USC by at least 16 points

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/01/homer5qj-1.jpg

I'm not even a USC fan but I think the Trojans win by 21 points.

Boomer
12-21-2005, 07:37 AM
Boomer, LeFors had a nice touch on his passes.


He was also 3 foot 8 tall and never going to be a pro QB in a month of Tuesdays.

Boomer
12-21-2005, 07:40 AM
Question for Boomer, whats up with A.Smith? He looks so bad it brings Ryan Leaf back to mind. You think he is going to be a starter or is he just this bad? Man he looks so bad I think SF needs to take a Qb late first day/early second day or sign a decent vet. I somewhat believed much of the hype simply because I never saw much of him in college and just assumed scouts actually watched him play.

Id love it if we trade up fro Leinart, hes going to be a great pro. This would do 2 things, 1 it would give us the franchise Qb we have desperately needed since Marino left, 2 it would keep Leinart off the Jets so we dont have to face him twice a year for the next decade or so.
I really hope some scouts start to downplay Leinart that people are so stupid that he slides a bit so we can trade up and snag him. I dont see this trade being all that fair for SF. Ricky is not worth taking in return for a top 5 pick, once he is done getting enough cash to live off he is gone from the NFL, his past makes him a huge question mark. SF needs more than Ricky and the 15th pick next year, the 2nd rounder is nice but they need talent immediately and top talent. SF stinks, Im not sure this deal would make them any good next year. Trading down for them makes good sense, its what I would do if I was them, but not for this deal.
However, I would do this deal in a heartbeat if I was the GM in Miami :)).


There's nothing wrong with him. He's a struggling rookie passer on the worst team in football without a decent back or any sort of #1 WR.

Boomer
12-21-2005, 07:46 AM
Hey Boomer, I really respect your opinion. You called RB from the start last year and I'll never doubt you again. I can't believe some of the newbies are questioning your wisdom. Anyways, what in your opinion would it take for Nick to reallisticly trade up to No 2?

Thanks Grendel. It comes with the territory. You tell people the Tuesday before the draft that Buffalo will take Willis McGahee with their pick and people kill you till the Commissioner opens his mouth, then everyone wants to be your mate. You say for 3 months that Alex Smith is the 9ers guy and that Aaron Rodgers may fall to GB at 24 and you get hammered again. Then everyone wants to be friends again. It's no biggie.

Anyway.......Saban doesn't want to or like to give up picks. I think he'll stay where he is, especially with 5 total selections and take the best player available to suit our team that isn't a TB. I really do. I think a Max Jean Gilles, Jay Cutler, Eric Winston, one of the DT's such as Claude Wroten, one of the many great linebackers, with Chad Greenway a very high possibility, and then a LaRon Landry, Michael Huff or Ashton Youboty would have to be considered very strong options.

Hope that helps mate.

Boomer
12-21-2005, 07:48 AM
leinert was terrible in the UCLA game. He was so way off his mark its not funny. I think he is a bit overrated. Im not saying he wont be a good QB, but i think once he gets to the pros, he will be snakebit for a while cus the NFL is not USC going against the pacific coast conference.


Wow. 1 bad game and he's overrated?

Boomer
12-21-2005, 07:54 AM
First of all, I am neither a Young supporter or a Leinhart supporter. I am personally indifferent to both because we have no chance at getting them.
But I do however find some flaws with your argument that I must point out.


Both of these are completely irrelevant when judging Qb's. Honestly, how many of the great qb's who are in the NFL right now have won national titles.

Peyton Manning didn't.
Matt Hasselback didn't.
Brady didn't.
Eli didn't
Delhomme didn't. (you can probably argue he isn't the best, but he seems to be settled in carolina.)
And I'm pretty sure Palmer didn't
Etc. Etc. I'm too tired to think of the other Qb's in the Nfl. But tell me at least five current good starters who have won the big show.

Also, how many of those Qb's can you name who were heisman winners..
Palmer is the only one.

Now tell me how many of those Heisman winners were total flops.



As for this it must be an exaggeration, because your age lists you as 31. If you have been studying Qb's for twenty years, that would mean you have been studying them since you were 11. And I doubt that is true.


The point about winning a Heisman and 3 National Titles, was tied to the fact that Leinart is a winner, which you would have realised, had you have read the quote correctly.

As for the age thing, I lied. It's 19 years. I got my first Joel Buchsbaum draft book ahead of the 1986 draft and in it were indicators of how to evaluate talent. Within 2 years I was writing for a magazine in the UK ahead of the draft, evaluating players.

Geez, I'm getting bored of having to explain myself to people like you.

Buddwalk
12-21-2005, 07:57 AM
The point about winning a Heisman and 3 National Titles, was tied to the fact that Leinart is a winner, which you would have realised, had you have read the quote correctly.

As for the age thing, I lied. It's 19 years. I got my first Joel Buchsbaum draft book ahead of the 1986 draft and in it were indicators of how to evaluate talent. Within 2 years I was writing for a magazine in the UK ahead of the draft, evaluating players.

Geez, I'm getting bored of having to explain myself to people like you.


no need to boomer your the draft source of finheaven and i believe what you say actually over such scouts such as mel kiper...;)

Boomer
12-21-2005, 07:57 AM
Alex, you have done a remarkable job of running your mouth, but haven't actually answered any of the proper grown up questions with regards to Leinart's obvious talents, which sort of put all that you say into the trash can.

Couple that with the fact that USC will wipe Texas off the field and this has been a pretty bad thread for you.

Boomer
12-21-2005, 07:59 AM
no need to boomer your the draft source of finheaven and i believe what you say actually over such scouts such as mel kiper...;)

Well thanks Budd.......but I'm just a guy with a VCR and Mel does it for a living very succesfully. There is NO comparison.

ChambersWI
12-21-2005, 08:04 AM
Wow. 1 bad game and he's overrated?

they fail to mention How Young did against A&M, or OU last year

Boomer
12-21-2005, 08:04 AM
First of all, I am neither a Young supporter or a Leinhart supporter. I am personally indifferent to both because we have no chance at getting them.
But I do however find some flaws with your argument that I must point out.


Both of these are completely irrelevant when judging Qb's. Honestly, how many of the great qb's who are in the NFL right now have won national titles.

Peyton Manning didn't.
Matt Hasselback didn't.
Brady didn't.
Eli didn't
Delhomme didn't. (you can probably argue he isn't the best, but he seems to be settled in carolina.)
And I'm pretty sure Palmer didn't
Etc. Etc. I'm too tired to think of the other Qb's in the Nfl. But tell me at least five current good starters who have won the big show.

Also, how many of those Qb's can you name who were heisman winners..
Palmer is the only one.

Now tell me how many of those Heisman winners were total flops.



As for this it must be an exaggeration, because your age lists you as 31. If you have been studying Qb's for twenty years, that would mean you have been studying them since you were 11. And I doubt that is true.


Oh and if I'm so flawed, why are you PM'ming me telling me that you know "Nothing about Vince Young as you haven't watched any of his games" and that you "respect your opinion on talent"

:shakeno:

aerokev
12-21-2005, 08:31 AM
1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them

i would agree with a lot of what you say. as long as leinert plays in a dome he will be fine, his arm is not there. a lot of people put too much emphasis on the heisman being the best player, but how many of them, especially QBs work out? USC has won 34 games in a row, but it isn't like leinert carried them, the only 2 games that were close this year bush not leinert bailed them out. leinert's stats are actually down this year, and i think young, quinn, and cutler will all be better pros.

Boomer
12-21-2005, 08:38 AM
i would agree with a lot of what you say. as long as leinert plays in a dome he will be fine, his arm is not there. a lot of people put too much emphasis on the heisman being the best player, but how many of them, especially QBs work out? USC has won 34 games in a row, but it isn't like leinert carried them, the only 2 games that were close this year bush not leinert bailed them out. leinert's stats are actually down this year, and i think young, quinn, and cutler will all be better pros.


Last time I checked, USC played outdoors. Last time I checked non-one in the Pac 10 plays in a dome.

The Heisman point indicated that he was a winner, as part of a bigger argument.

That was Bush that hit Jarrett on 4th and 9 against Notre Dame?

Phlueesse.

umpalu
12-21-2005, 08:43 AM
1- No arm strength

2- Teams play 8 in the box against him because of bush

3- He has great WR's

4- He isnt THAT accurate ive watched him play about 11 times, he throws it around his WR's but he doesnt hit them in stride as much as you people say

5- A heisman doesnt make you a great QB

6- He didnt deserve any of the national championships, year 1 LSU was better, year 2 Auburn was better, this year texas is gonna crush them

Well Vince, I mean Alex22, when you lose to USC at the Rose your theory of Leinert will start to fall apart. Vince, I mean Alex, you are a good QB, don't get me wrong, but Matt can come in and start right away in the NFL whereas you will take some work. You need to stay in college for your senior year then come out. Work on passing more. We can take Ronnie and make him a QB so why would we need you?

Den54
12-21-2005, 08:53 AM
The more things change the more they remain the same, eh Boomer? :lol:
Hey Boom any idea how Jeremy Bloom wr from Utah might do in the up coming draft? As always thanks for your imput. ;)

bakedmatt
12-21-2005, 09:17 AM
Because

1- texans wont take bush

2- miami wont be picking #2

and many other things not the least of which is that ferguson will be a top 5 pick


the texans taking bush is very likely. you're talking about a franchise that is lacking in not only talent, but stars. adding bush to your squad puts fans butts in the seats, and gives you a probable megastar going into the future to build around. the texans need to turnover a LOT of their roster, so whoever they pick #1, imo, shouldn't be based entirely on need.

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 09:38 AM
I don't think so man, USC has MUCH more to work with than Texas.
MUCH more? :sidelol:

you make it sound like texas will get beat easily. oh wait they will

LarryFinFan
12-21-2005, 10:24 AM
Because

1- texans wont take bush

2- miami wont be picking #2

and many other things not the least of which is that ferguson will be a top 5 pick


If the Texans don't take Bush they are stupid. He's too good to pass up. and the premise is that we trade for the #2 pick, so thats not so out of the question, now is it ??

Now, do I think anyone would give up that much for RW, no way...but we'll see....

AZfinfan
12-21-2005, 10:54 AM
Im not even argueing this

anyone who buys into the leinart or usc hype isnt worth my time

I understand exactly what you are saying it is extremely hard to buy into a team that has won the last two national championships and ARE GOING TO WIN ANOTHER. Get off the Texas kick kid they are going to get crushed. If the final score is within 20 i'll be surprised.

CrunchTime
12-21-2005, 10:56 AM
LMAO! The guy has SF trading their 2 overall pick for Ricky and Miami's 15. I would take that in a SECOND!

Actually the deal does include a SECOND but in the 2007 draft.:tongue:

We will be very lucky to get a sniff at Leinart so I like the deal if it comes off but I think its a pipe dream by some mock draft fanatic.

IMO Leinart is the best draftable QB at the position in the last two years.

PHINZONER
12-21-2005, 11:24 AM
Reason's he will succeed:

Smart player
Good decision maker
Check's down wisely
Reads through the progression very well
Experience

Reason's I can see him failing:

He is on a team that will have 10+ guys in the NFL, that would obviously make any palyer look better.
Arm strenth(Mel Kiper)is in question
He will be playing far better talent than that near pro team ever saw, and he can not rest on the lores of a Reggie Bush to take pressure of him.
Athletisism is in question, but you can be a statue(Bledsoe) and have success in the NFL

To many people are looking for that next Vick that can run around. Well exactly how many games have Vick, Culpepper, Brunell, McNabb, McNair, and Fiedler miss the last few years? How many have Favre, Manning, Palmer,Bledsoe,Brees,Green, and on and on miss?

This guy will have success unless he goes to a Detroit type of hole in the ground. Harrington would be more successful as would Carr if they were in a place like Cincy,Atlanta,Tampa,SD, or any other quality team.

AZfinfan
12-21-2005, 11:32 AM
I almost stopped reading your post halfway through the first line, because again, your best defense is "I don't care" like you are some football knowledge god, but I decided to humor myself. I'm glad I did, because had I not continued to read your post I would have missed this little gem:

"USC has arguably the best defense ever......." :sidelol:

Yep, can't argue with these numbers:

Points Allowed Per Game: 27th

Rushing Yards Allowed Per Game: 24th
Rushing Yards Allowed Per Attempt: 29th

Passing Yards Allowed Per Game: 77th
Passing Yards Allowed Per Attempt: 50th

Total Yards Allowed Per Game: 40th
Total Yards Allowed Per Play: 44th

Overall Defensive Rank: 41st

Wow dude, last time I checked if a team had the best defense ever it was ranked #1 overall, this team isn't even ranked #1 in a single categorey, the closest it comes is 23 spots out of first place in rushing yards, so I guess they MIGHT have the best rushing defense ever :shakeno:

IMO there are a lot more factors that need to be considered. How many times have you watched USC and when they needed to make a stop they did. The D steps up when they need 2. The offense scores so quickly that it is inevetible that the D is going to give up some good plays. Also it needs to be considered that the Pac-10 has some explosive offenses. I don't know where they land statistically but UCLA, ASU, UO can all score on anyone. IMO opinion the big difference is going to be the coaching. Mack doesn't even compare to Carrol. Then take into account that Carrol gets over 1 month to prepare and look out. That is the reason that OU got beat so badly last year.

newlownorder
12-21-2005, 11:39 AM
Leinart has the best touch of any passer I've studied in nigh on 20 years. I assume that the person who said this was a crazy mock was talking specifically about that trade rather than the mock as a whole? Because the mock as a whole isn't bad at all.

Bush to Houston would have been very likely indeed and still may be if they lose out. Ferguson will go in the top 5 if there's a team that has a need there.

Leinart has a noodle arm regardless of how good his touch is he doesn't fit out offense.

PHINZONER
12-21-2005, 11:40 AM
For 1 I hate the tag of "winner"! I hold true to my theory of what is a great player. To be great I believe you need to be able to make plays consistantly w/ or w/o play makers around you. Hieupel(spelling) was a winner, Frazier was a winner. Go down the list. You look at Eli Manning and he did not lead the Rebels to so much as a sniff of the SEC title. Yet he is a very good qb. Look at Leftwitch and what talent was around him in college, Roethlisberger, Frye,McNair,McNabb, Pepper(I guess),Plummer,Brees, and Brady. They performed very well in college dispite not winning a Heisman, not title, most(if not all) never won their conference. I like a guy that can play despite the talent around them!

PHINZONER
12-21-2005, 11:43 AM
Get off the backs of the likes of Harrington, Alex Smith and any other young qb on a struggling team. I guarantee that if Tom Brady were in SF, he would have only won a game or two more. Heck he was having a tough go of it w/ the SB champion Pats. This goes to prove that w/o a D the best players can not win on a regular basis. Well with one exception!!!!!!! DAN MARINO!!!!!!!!!

PHINZONER
12-21-2005, 11:50 AM
A POINT TO BE MADE ON THE D MAKING STOPS.

Look at the Colts. Look at the 15-1 Vikes. Look at the Bengals. Look at St.Louis If your D can not show up and hold the opposing team from scoring you will not go on and win the big games. Other than St. Louis(which the D played well the year they got the SB win) none have won the big game.

The difference in last years Colts and this years is the D is much improved! The O is not as dominant. If the Bengals D stiffens up, they could be as good a shot to be a "Dynasty" as the Colts, Pats, or anybody else. The D is great in USC. But I do not believe that Leinart is a flop of a player. He is a Brady type of player.

Dolphins=LIFE
12-21-2005, 11:51 AM
the craziest part is that he thinks Carolina is gonna win the Super Bowl. I like the mock overall. Cutler dropping to SEA seems unlikely to me, but he would be a good fit there.

Boomer
12-21-2005, 12:56 PM
Leinart has a noodle arm regardless of how good his touch is he doesn't fit out offense.

OK, Leinart doesn't have a 'noodle arm' and you think if Miami had the chance at Leinart that they'd pass on him??

Boomer
12-21-2005, 01:02 PM
The more things change the more they remain the same, eh Boomer? :lol:
Hey Boom any idea how Jeremy Bloom wr from Utah might do in the up coming draft? As always thanks for your imput. ;)

You know it mate. How are you Den?? Long time mate.......

Bloom as in the skier? I think he played at Colorado and attended Utah, is that right? If it's the same cat, he hasn't played in a couple of years because of his ski endoresements being an infraction of the NCAA's rules.

If he does indeed fancy an NFL career, then it's as a FA I think mate.

Happy Christmas Den

FinSinceBirth
12-21-2005, 01:06 PM
Oh and if I'm so flawed, why are you PM'ming me telling me that you know "Nothing about Vince Young as you haven't watched any of his games" and that you "respect your opinion on talent"

:shakeno:

I respect your opinion but that does not mean that you are perfect. Nobody is perfect, and wouldn't it just have been easier to say he is a winner then to talk about national titles and heismans. What I said was true with the argument you presented. Remember just because I respect your opinion on talent, doesn't mean I worship you and lavish your thoughts. Everything anybody ever says on a player must be weighed against everybody else. That way you have a broad idea and not just "facts" from people who don't know what they're talking about. If you look back at my orignal post I said I found some flaws, not that your entire post was flawed. Don't get so offended.

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 01:06 PM
For 1 I hate the tag of "winner"! I hold true to my theory of what is a great player. To be great I believe you need to be able to make plays consistantly w/ or w/o play makers around you. Hieupel(spelling) was a winner, Frazier was a winner. Go down the list. You look at Eli Manning and he did not lead the Rebels to so much as a sniff of the SEC title. Yet he is a very good qb. Look at Leftwitch and what talent was around him in college, Roethlisberger, Frye,McNair,McNabb, Pepper(I guess),Plummer,Brees, and Brady. They performed very well in college dispite not winning a Heisman, not title, most(if not all) never won their conference. I like a guy that can play despite the talent around them!
leinart can't help the fact that he's on a great team. no need to punish him for that

Amars
12-21-2005, 01:10 PM
ok so 3-0 we should turn off the T.V?

Nope sorry Im watching the whole game

Texas will crush USC by at least 16 points


Damn you are going to be dissappointed. Texas has played NOBODY. The big 12 is a joke. Ohio state is the only opponent worth mentioning and that was Vince Young worse game.

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 01:13 PM
Damn you are going to be dissappointed. Texas has played NOBODY. The big 12 is a joke. Ohio state is the only opponent worth mentioning and that was Vince Young worse game.
actually he had a worse game against texas a&m's 117th ranked pass defense

Den54
12-21-2005, 01:16 PM
You know it mate. How are you Den?? Long time mate.......

Bloom as in the skier? I think he played at Colorado and attended Utah, is that right? If it's the same cat, he hasn't played in a couple of years because of his ski endoresements being an infraction of the NCAA's rules.

If he does indeed fancy an NFL career, then it's as a FA I think mate.

Happy Christmas Den

Merry Chrismas to you too Boomer.
Yeah the skier. I've read he was pretty decent kr,wr all round playmaker.
A little small at 5'8 180 but is suppose to be real quick. Perhaps a Wayne Cherbet type? Anyways just wondering. :)

Boomer
12-21-2005, 01:28 PM
I respect your opinion but that does not mean that you are perfect. Nobody is perfect, and wouldn't it just have been easier to say he is a winner then to talk about national titles and heismans. What I said was true with the argument you presented. Remember just because I respect your opinion on talent, doesn't mean I worship you and lavish your thoughts. Everything anybody ever says on a player must be weighed against everybody else. That way you have a broad idea and not just "facts" from people who don't know what they're talking about. If you look back at my orignal post I said I found some flaws, not that your entire post was flawed. Don't get so offended.

I'm not offended, just bored of the sniping from people who know nothing about me.

Leinart is a winner. He will have led his team to National Titles, he has won a Heisman - it encapsulates the winners mentality that he possesses. It would be utterly fool hardy to talk about Leinart and not talk about the fact that he has done what he's done at USC.

Agent51
12-21-2005, 03:46 PM
IMO there are a lot more factors that need to be considered. How many times have you watched USC and when they needed to make a stop they did. The D steps up when they need 2. The offense scores so quickly that it is inevetible that the D is going to give up some good plays. Also it needs to be considered that the Pac-10 has some explosive offenses. I don't know where they land statistically but UCLA, ASU, UO can all score on anyone. IMO opinion the big difference is going to be the coaching. Mack doesn't even compare to Carrol. Then take into account that Carrol gets over 1 month to prepare and look out. That is the reason that OU got beat so badly last year.

You act like Carroll is a coaching God, he isn't. Carroll didn't win the games, he has a STACKED team. With a the team that he has he BETTER be 34-0 lateley. How is it that he didn't become a winning coach til the guys came into their own? Pete didn't hop right in and win. So you are telling me that Pete Carroll would have a 34 game win streak on any other team? No way, he wouldn't even have it on Texas. Mack Brown is ranked either 1 or 2, depending on which category, in most of the win stats for coaches. Mack Brown could easily have the 34 game streak and the 2 titles if he coaches USC, Pete Carroll wouldn't have that if he coached Texas.

And Kast, yea, I said MUCH more talent. Unless you a Texas fan or watch a lot of their games then you prolly can't name most of their starters outside Vince Young and MAYBE Michael Huff. EVERYONE knows Leinart, Bush, White, Jarrett, Smith Bing etc etc. Selvin Young, Romance Taylor, Jamaal CHarles, Limas Sweed, Dave Thomas etc etc are good players for us, but they aren't big name guy like USC's. We don't have a Reggie Bush or a Dwayne Jarrett on our team.

Alex44
12-21-2005, 03:50 PM
Damn you are going to be dissappointed. Texas has played NOBODY. The big 12 is a joke. Ohio state is the only opponent worth mentioning and that was Vince Young worse game.


wow and leinart played poorly against Notre Dame up untill the very end

so whats your point?

USC had a pretty easy schedule as well

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 04:01 PM
You act like Carroll is a coaching God, he isn't. Carroll didn't win the games, he has a STACKED team. With a the team that he has he BETTER be 34-0 lateley. How is it that he didn't become a winning coach til the guys came into their own? Pete didn't hop right in and win. So you are telling me that Pete Carroll would have a 34 game win streak on any other team? No way, he wouldn't even have it on Texas. Mack Brown is ranked either 1 or 2, depending on which category, in most of the win stats for coaches. Mack Brown could easily have the 34 game streak and the 2 titles if he coaches USC, Pete Carroll wouldn't have that if he coached Texas.

And Kast, yea, I said MUCH more talent. Unless you a Texas fan or watch a lot of their games then you prolly can't name most of their starters outside Vince Young and MAYBE Michael Huff. EVERYONE knows Leinart, Bush, White, Jarrett, Smith Bing etc etc. Selvin Young, Romance Taylor, Jamaal CHarles, Limas Sweed, Dave Thomas etc etc are good players for us, but they aren't big name guy like USC's. We don't have a Reggie Bush or a Dwayne Jarrett on our team.
jarrett, white, smith, and for most of the year, bush were pretty unknown last year. the reason they're known now: they've played long enough. it's how leianrt won the heisman. everyone was like "he's playing with less talent than last year, it's all him!" this year, now that people know the players, it's like "eh, he's got a great team around him." no one knows taylor, charles, sweed and company, but they'll know them in time

AZfinfan
12-21-2005, 04:04 PM
You act like Carroll is a coaching God, he isn't. Carroll didn't win the games, he has a STACKED team. With a the team that he has he BETTER be 34-0 lateley. How is it that he didn't become a winning coach til the guys came into their own? Pete didn't hop right in and win. So you are telling me that Pete Carroll would have a 34 game win streak on any other team? No way, he wouldn't even have it on Texas. Mack Brown is ranked either 1 or 2, depending on which category, in most of the win stats for coaches. Mack Brown could easily have the 34 game streak and the 2 titles if he coaches USC, Pete Carroll wouldn't have that if he coached Texas.

And Kast, yea, I said MUCH more talent. Unless you a Texas fan or watch a lot of their games then you prolly can't name most of their starters outside Vince Young and MAYBE Michael Huff. EVERYONE knows Leinart, Bush, White, Jarrett, Smith Bing etc etc. Selvin Young, Romance Taylor, Jamaal CHarles, Limas Sweed, Dave Thomas etc etc are good players for us, but they aren't big name guy like USC's. We don't have a Reggie Bush or a Dwayne Jarrett on our team.

just my opinion. I watch a lot of Texas football I have for years. It will just really surprise me if Texas is even in the game in the fourth quarter.

Motion
12-21-2005, 04:13 PM
USC had a pretty easy schedule as well

Don't go there. No Texas fan should ever bring up strength of schedule, period.

Alex44
12-21-2005, 04:15 PM
Don't go there. No Texas fan should ever bring up strength of schedule, period.


Thing is im not a texas fan


I dont root for them year in and year out

Im a Miami fan so this game is nuetral to me

Texas is just going to beat USC and you can all quote me on that as well

Motion
12-21-2005, 04:16 PM
Thing is im not a texas fan


I dont root for them year in and year out

Im a Miami fan so this game is nuetral to me

Texas is just going to beat USC and you can all quote me on that as well

Fine, no one "defending" Texas should ever bring up S.O.S.

Alex44
12-21-2005, 04:20 PM
Fine, no one "defending" Texas should ever bring up S.O.S.


That works better

but

USC also had a pretty easy schedule is all im saying

If I said texas had a hard schedule then you could complain but me saying USC also had it easy shouldnt matter

kastofsna120
12-21-2005, 04:23 PM
USC had a much tougher schedule than texas, and a pretty tough shedule overall. that's idiotic to bring up SOS against USC EVER, not just defending texas

Regan21286
12-21-2005, 04:25 PM
If USC looses, willl Llinehart drop a bit?

He may or may not.


alex is a 15 year old wide receiver in high school. he's cleraly just obsessed with sportscenter highlights

I played CB and I loved playing against high school WR's who try to make highlight plays. They're so oblivious to the shot in the ribs they'll be getting. It's the gratification of popping TO wannabes who talk like TO but can't play like him. :)


actually USC has faced several really good offenses. oregon, arizona state, notre dame, california, fresno state, UCLA

I always thought the UCLA offense was sort of a mixed bag. Maurice Drew's a poor man's Reggie Bush, Marcedes Lewis is a top TE, and Olson is having a breakout season but the WR's and OL are putrid. All are freshmen or walk-on players. Heck, I even gave some thought to trying out while daydreaming in lectures.


leinart can't help the fact that he's on a great team. no need to punish him for that

Exactly. Do we punish Carson Palmer for having a solid OL, great RB and WR, and solid D that forces turnovers? Leinart may fare poorly if he goes to a terrible team but if he comes here, he'll flourish.

Alex44
12-21-2005, 04:28 PM
I played CB and I loved playing against high school WR's who try to make highlight plays. They're so oblivious to the shot in the ribs they'll be getting. It's the gratification of popping TO wannabes who talk like TO but can't play like him. :)


.

That would be great except I know how to take a hit and still catch the ball maybe that works on most high school kids but not me sorry

Amars
12-21-2005, 04:37 PM
damn this thread went from mock draft to MATT Vs. VINCE. :lol:

Regan21286
12-21-2005, 04:41 PM
USC had a much tougher schedule than texas, and a pretty tough shedule overall. that's idiotic to bring up SOS against USC EVER, not just defending texas

Texas played 2 ranked teams. USC had at least 5, most of whom had a good offense.


That would be great except I know how to take a hit and still catch the ball maybe that works on most high school kids but not me sorry

That's what all high school WR's say. And as always, they still drop em even before getting hit.

AZfinfan
12-21-2005, 04:44 PM
wow and leinart played poorly against Notre Dame up untill the very end

so whats your point?

USC had a pretty easy schedule as well

relative to whom,,,,,I hope your not compairing it to a big 12 schedule

vmarcilfan75
12-21-2005, 04:49 PM
You act like Carroll is a coaching God, he isn't. Carroll didn't win the games, he has a STACKED team. With a the team that he has he BETTER be 34-0 lateley. How is it that he didn't become a winning coach til the guys came into their own? Pete didn't hop right in and win. So you are telling me that Pete Carroll would have a 34 game win streak on any other team? No way, he wouldn't even have it on Texas. Mack Brown is ranked either 1 or 2, depending on which category, in most of the win stats for coaches. Mack Brown could easily have the 34 game streak and the 2 titles if he coaches USC, Pete Carroll wouldn't have that if he coached Texas.



and Where and How did he get this STACKED team?? from him no??:rolleyes:
so coaching doesnt win games??? :lol:

How can you say Brown would of won at USC?? The players went there because of Carroll. It all comes down to Recruiting.. And Carroll is almost a god at that..another NC he can CHOOSE who he wants..

Agent51
12-21-2005, 04:51 PM
I played CB and I loved playing against high school WR's who try to make highlight plays. They're so oblivious to the shot in the ribs they'll be getting. It's the gratification of popping TO wannabes who talk like TO but can't play like him. :)
.

Dude, I was a HB and S (with some CB) and I LOVED when a WR would come across the middle and then his QB would leave him hanging. I remember we had a game against our rivals my senior year. IN my senior year I didn't start at S because I had abreakout year as a junior at HB and coach wanted me to be as fresh as possible for all the games, and the punishment my body took playing HB and S every game increased my risk of injury. Well, for that rivalry game their "star" WR (he was good, but not as good as he made himself out to be) had been popping off for like 3 weeks before the game (it was our homecoming game too). Kids from their school, including him, were posting all over our message boards and there was an interview with him in the sports section of the paper after a big game he had and he basically bashed us like 8 different time in it. Anyway, during the game we were up 21-14 in the fourth and there were only 50 something seconds left. They were driving pretty good down the field and then our starting SS got hurt. Coach let me go in and 2 or 3 plays later I was playing zone coverage and he beat his DB BAD and the QB threw a SUPER sloppy pass that floated for like 12 years. Gave me PLENTY of time to set up for the hit of my career. I ran from about 7 yards back at full speed and he not only was up in the air when I hit him but his arms were fully outstreatched over his head and his body was rotating towards me, basically as a DB you can't ask for a better setup. When I hit him I was trying to tackle his front jersey numbers through and blow them out the back of his jersey, lol, that's what I was picturing. I absolutely OBLITERATED him, and the sound it made, my god, sweetest sound ever, it sounds VICIOUS on tape. It actually hurt me a lot too, especially since I had a sore shoulder from a 2nd quarter hit, but man, it was so worth it. He ended with a broken rib and something pinched in his neck so he lost feeling in his body for a few minutes (which was not cool and kinda scary for everyone). I have to give him creadit though, he ALMSOT held onto the ball. On the tape when I hit him the ball bobbled out but fell at the perfect angle so as we were falling with his back to the ground he actually grabbed it behind my back, but when we ht the ground it was all overe, ball popped out and both of us got the wind knocked out and I was a little slow getting up, but he was down for a solid 10 minutes. It was the best hit I have EVER given (except for the scare when we thought he was paralyzed, you never wish that one anyone).

Alex44
12-21-2005, 04:54 PM
That's what all high school WR's say. And as always, they still drop em even before getting hit.


eh no sorry I dont drop the ball EVER

Regan21286
12-21-2005, 04:56 PM
eh no sorry I dont drop the ball EVER

And I'll bet you think you're NFL-starting material too. :rolleyes:

Alex44
12-21-2005, 04:58 PM
Dude, I was a HB and S (with some CB) and I LOVED when a WR would come across the middle and then his QB would leave him hanging. I remember we had a game against our rivals my senior year. IN my senior year I didn't start at S because I had abreakout year as a junior at HB and coach wanted me to be as fresh as possible for all the games, and the punishment my body took playing HB and S every game increased my risk of injury. Well, for that rivalry game their "star" WR (he was good, but not as good as he made himself out to be) had been popping off for like 3 weeks before the game (it was our homecoming game too). Kids from their school, including him, were posting all over our message boards and there was an interview with him in the sports section of the paper after a big game he had and he basically bashed us like 8 different time in it. Anyway, during the game we were up 21-14 in the fourth and there were only 50 something seconds left. They were driving pretty good down the field and then our starting SS got hurt. Coach let me go in and 2 or 3 plays later I was playing zone coverage and he beat his DB BAD and the QB threw a SUPER sloppy pass that floated for like 12 years. Gave me PLENTY of time to set up for the hit of my career. I ran from about 7 yards back at full speed and he not only was up in the air when I hit him but his arms were fully outstreatched over his head and his body was rotating towards me, basically as a DB you can't ask for a better setup. When I hit him I was trying to tackle his front jersey numbers through and blow them out the back of his jersey, lol, that's what I was picturing. I absolutely OBLITERATED him, and the sound it made, my god, sweetest sound ever, it sounds VICIOUS on tape. It actually hurt me a lot too, especially since I had a sore shoulder from a 2nd quarter hit, but man, it was so worth it. He ended with a broken rib and something pinched in his neck so he lost feeling in his body for a few minutes (which was not cool and kinda scary for everyone). I have to give him creadit though, he ALMSOT held onto the ball. On the tape when I hit him the ball bobbled out but fell at the perfect angle so as we were falling with his back to the ground he actually grabbed it behind my back, but when we ht the ground it was all overe, ball popped out and both of us got the wind knocked out and I was a little slow getting up, but he was down for a solid 10 minutes. It was the best hit I have EVER given (except for the scare when we thought he was paralyzed, you never wish that one anyone).

wow thats one hell of a hit

Thats a terrible positon to be in as a WR Ive been in it a few times, if I didnt wear my rib pad things I probally would have broken a rib at least twice

I play WR and Saftey

and the funny thing is the best hit I ever gave was on a kickoff

The guy was running with the ball towards the right, and there was no blocking, I was chasing him from behind, he then starts to reverse field, he turns right into me and I completly lay him out

Biggest hit I took

In the endzone our QB threw the ball pretty much strait up in the air

I had one guy behind me one in front and one running full speed from the side

I tried to go over top the guy in front of me, but as I went up the guy swiped me from the side....it was very painful

Alex44
12-21-2005, 04:59 PM
And I'll bet you think you're NFL-starting material too. :rolleyes:

Not yet

but I will be

Motion
12-21-2005, 05:02 PM
Not yet

but I will be

Good Luck with that.

vmarcilfan75
12-21-2005, 05:04 PM
Good Luck with that.


yeah after "he wins his 4 heismans.." he claims :sidelol:

Agent51
12-21-2005, 05:12 PM
wow thats one hell of a hit

Thats a terrible positon to be in as a WR Ive been in it a few times, if I didnt wear my rib pad things I probally would have broken a rib at least twice

I play WR and Saftey

and the funny thing is the best hit I ever gave was on a kickoff

The guy was running with the ball towards the right, and there was no blocking, I was chasing him from behind, he then starts to reverse field, he turns right into me and I completly lay him out

Biggest hit I took

In the endzone our QB threw the ball pretty much strait up in the air

I had one guy behind me one in front and one running full speed from the side

I tried to go over top the guy in front of me, but as I went up the guy swiped me from the side....it was very painful

I've taken a few pretty bad hits, I'd have to think about the absolute worst in terms of pain, but the worst injury I ever got was when I bounced it to the outside and I was runnign forward and about to make a cut and when I was planting my right legthe DB dove and tackled me at the knee, which drove the cleat deeper into the field (basically locking my leg in place) and basically made my knee bend the OTHER way, like an ostrich's leg. I had a hyper-extended knee and missed 3 weeks and it took me a good 3 or 4 more to get back to 100%. That was sophmore year (thank god) but It was on the varisty squad so the hit came from a kid that was much bigger than me, lol, it's one of the things that made me put on muscle and work hardcore at my offseason conditioning and strength.

That definately wasn't the hardest shot I've taken, but it was my worst injury. I also remember my worst concussion. It was play action and I ran out to the left then I cut back across the field behind the D line and my QB threw it as he was being absolutely LEVELED by the DE. Watching the tape and talking to him after the pass wasn't even to me, it was to the TE who was in line with me but further downfield, it just fell way short because of the hit as he was throwing. I was running right and it was kind of behind me do to the poor throw. I knew I was past the 1st down marker so I had to catch it (it was 3rd and 2 or 3) so as I was still running right I kind of tiwsted my upper body, and unfortunately turned my head back, which is a DB or LBs DREAM, when a player is running one way and looking the other, and I caught the ball and th eSECOND I my fingertips touched the ball it felt like I got hit by a train. Colors exploded and then my vision went pitch black for a few, although I could still hear everything. When it came back and I was helped up it felt like I was walking through water and in slow motion. Everything felt heavy, it was so wierd. In fact, that is probably the hardest hit I have taken. I know I've taken harder shots but I have to give it to that one because I wasn't looking, my momentum was going opposit from the way I was looking, and because I didn't see the hit coming to brace myself for it.

YPF
12-22-2005, 03:15 PM
Texas will do no better than Oklahoma did last year against USC.

Motion
12-22-2005, 03:15 PM
yeah after "he wins his 4 heismans.." he claims :sidelol:

Can't knock someone for having goals.

However, there is a thin line between confidence and conceited.