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josekareh
12-31-2005, 08:38 PM
First Rounders are not always the best ones, Did you get to see Philip Rivers today, San Diego believes he's worth millions and Top picks B.S., sorry I'd rather pick someone else who proves to be better and KEEP RICKY!!

GO FINS and Kick those PATS COLD A**E$ :dolphins:

3Ply Stagliano
12-31-2005, 08:40 PM
It's jumping the gun a bit to decide Rivers value in a small part of one game. I'm not saying that as if he's great or anything, just that it's not enough playing time to judge a player on.

dlockz
12-31-2005, 08:43 PM
First Rounders are not always the best ones, Did you get to see Philip Rivers today, San Diego believes he's worth millions and Top picks B.S., sorry I'd rather pick someone else who proves to be better and KEEP RICKY!!

GO FINS and Kick those PATS COLD A**E$ :dolphins:

did you see the weather? Lets judge Rivers based on this game lol.

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 08:43 PM
Im a Brees backer, but todays game doesnt show anything about what Rivers is or what he can do..what that might be is yet to be seen.

I thought he looked ok, given the time he was given to throw. And the INT wasnt his fault, it was tipped...one thing about Rivers is he does throw smart.

IdahoPhin
12-31-2005, 08:44 PM
It's jumping the gun a bit to decide Rivers value in a small part of one game. I'm not saying that as if he's great or anything, just that it's not enough playing time to judge a player on.

I agree. He was under a lot of pressure in bad weather.

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 08:44 PM
rivers isn't good

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 08:46 PM
rivers isn't good


Ok, I'll bite..based on?

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 08:47 PM
I agree. He was under a lot of pressure in bad weather.


Our back-up Left tackle SUCKS, Left Guard is AWFUL! I dont care if we put Fouts in there, NO WAY!

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 08:48 PM
Ok, I'll bite..based on?
what i've seen of him since college and his short time in the NFL. he has no future in the NFL

nopony
12-31-2005, 08:56 PM
Ok, I'll bite..based on?

Don't bother L.T.... I tried to have this discussion with him before... he just keeps repeating that he's no good, with nothing to back it up. Although he did post a sweet scouting report that talked endlessly about how good Rivers was. He only posted the negatives... but they were pretty good by themselves.

I'm guessing that today is the first time Kast has actually watched Rivers. But he's made his silly statements like "he has no future in the NFL" and now he feels obligated to stick to them, I guess.

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 09:00 PM
what i've seen of him since college and his short time in the NFL. he has no future in the NFL

Hmm..please remind me what he did in college? Im actually interested as someone who's seen him play in COLLEGE, what was it about him? Did he not win games, etc...?
Was it because he was surrounded by amazing talent on his team at N.C. State, similar to what Matt L. has with USC? What was it?

bg34
12-31-2005, 09:03 PM
2nd All-time in passing yds
95 td's
5 bowl game MVP's

No, he was not surrounded my amazing talent at NC State. But of course, a stellar college career doesn't equate to a star NFL QB, but it should give you the benefit of the doubt. ( doesn't on here though, lol)

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:04 PM
Hmm..please remind me what he did in college? Im actually interested as someone who's seen him play in COLLEGE, what was it about him? Did he not win games, etc...?
Was it because he was surrounded by amazing talent on his team at N.C. State, similar to what Matt L. has with USC? What was it?
no arm strength, bad deep ball, can't throw to the sidelines at all, no mobility, bad mechanics (better now), horrible release, etc

the talent around a player means nothing when scouting QBs. maybe to the ignorant

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:06 PM
2nd All-time in passing yds
95 td's
5 bowl game MVP's

No, he was not surrounded my amazing talent at NC State. But of course, a stellar college career doesn't equate to a star NFL QB, but it should give you the benefit of the doubt. ( doesn't on here though, lol)
should give him the benefit of the doubt? what the hell does that mean :lol:

being the mvp of 3 citrus bowls isn't too impressive, especially considering he lost one of them (and didn't even do that well in the game, i have no clue why he won the MVP). nothing he does translates well to the NFL

bg34
12-31-2005, 09:06 PM
no arm strength, bad deep ball, can't throw to the sidelines at all, no mobility, bad mechanics (better now), horrible release, etc

the talent around a player means nothing when scouting QBs. maybe to the ignorant

:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

bg34
12-31-2005, 09:07 PM
should give him the benefit of the doubt? what the hell does that mean :lol:

being the mvp of 3 citrus bowls isn't too impressive, especially considering he lost one of them (and didn't even do that well in the game, i have no clue why he won the MVP). nothing he does translates well to the NFL

Finally, you say something that makes sense!

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:09 PM
maybe you can enlighten me as to why he won the citrus bowl MVP against georgia tech? you like rivers a lot, so i'm assuming you've watched him play and know which game i'm talking about and can tell me what he did to deserve the award

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 09:09 PM
2nd All-time in passing yds
95 td's
5 bowl game MVP's

No, he was not surrounded my amazing talent at NC State. But of course, a stellar college career doesn't equate to a star NFL QB, but it should give you the benefit of the doubt. ( doesn't on here though, lol)



Agreed, college stats dont mean anything once in the NFL. But Id just like to hear what his educated opinions are on Rivers..what doesnt he like about him, etc...

Just for conversations sake.

bg34
12-31-2005, 09:11 PM
maybe you can enlighten me as to why he won the citrus bowl MVP against georgia tech? you like rivers a lot, so i'm assuming you've watched him play and know which game i'm talking about and can tell me what he did to deserve the award

I wasn't aware that he played a team from his own conference in a bowl game?

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 09:12 PM
maybe you can enlighten me as to why he won the citrus bowl MVP against georgia tech? you like rivers a lot, so i'm assuming you've watched him play and know which game i'm talking about and can tell me what he did to deserve the award


But that still doesnt say why he would suck? For example, I dont like the way Brees occasionally stares the WR too long. I dont like the way he'll sometime force a pass to Gates when he has a safety valve on the right. I dont like the way Brees occassionaly doesnt just tuck it and run--and Im one of the biggest Brees supporters!

Another example, I think Kerry Collins sucks because he cant throw anything underneath because his touch passes suck. I think Kerry Collins sucks because he never scans the field but would rather throw to a double /tripled team WR.

Like that...so whats it with Philip?

nopony
12-31-2005, 09:12 PM
no arm strength,

Wrong. He has PLUS arm strength, read his scouting reports. He throws the ball hard and fast.


bad deep ball,

Wrong. INCONSISTENT deep ball because it SOMETIMES drifts. Much like many qbs in the NFL. It is not bad and he can throw it.


can't throw to the sidelines at all,

Completely wrong. Don't even know where you came up with that one.


no mobility,

He's not a running quarterback, but he has plus pocket presence and good evasion.


bad mechanics (better now),

He has unique mechanics, not bad.


horrible release,

No. He had one of the fewest balls batted down of his college class.


etc

There is no etc.

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:15 PM
I wasn't aware that he played a team from his own conference in a bowl game?
so far so good. but why did he win the MVP?

RunningBackGuru
12-31-2005, 09:16 PM
We can't judge a guy with a 1 game performance. It would be like judging Alex Smith this year with a horrible team.

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 09:17 PM
Hmm...as a disclaimer--no way am I even putting them in the same category but..

Didnt #13 have a unique "bad" throwing technique?

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:18 PM
Wrong. He has PLUS arm strength, read his scouting reports. He throws the ball hard and fast.
wrong. he has a bad arm

Wrong. INCONSISTENT deep ball because it SOMETIMES drifts. Much like many qbs in the NFL. It is not bad and he can throw it.
:rofl: he has a bad deep ball

Completely wrong. Don't even know where you came up with that one.
i'm right, actually. even those dumb scouts agree with me. look it up :)

He's not a running quarterback, but he has plus pocket presence and good evasion.
i guess

He has unique mechanics, not bad.
:lol: is this elementary school? little johnny isn't bad, he's just special! rivers isn't bad he's "unique"

No. He had one of the fewest balls batted down of his college class.
okay?

There is no etc.
yeah, i guess i got everything right

bg34
12-31-2005, 09:21 PM
so far so good. but why did he win the MVP?

Which bowl are you talking about? The '03 Tangerine Bowl against Kansas??

If so, I think he threw for almost 500 yds.

nopony
12-31-2005, 09:23 PM
He was the MPV of five bowl games, Kast. Which one is it that bothers you?

Kansas University's football team had nearly a month to prepare for Philip Rivers. It wasn't enough. Rivers set North Carolina State and Tangerine Bowl records Monday night at Florida Citrus Bowl for completions (37), completion percentage (82.2), passing yards (475), touchdown passes (five) and total offense (495 yards).

MicronPC.com Bowl
N.C. State 38, Minnesota 30
Matchup Key Stat
Game Recap
Game Summary 300: Rushing yards on 58 carries for the Gophers in an attempt to control the ball, which they did to no avail.
Player of the Game
MVP Philip Rivers, QB, N.C. State. The kid didn't flinch despite a huge deficit and methodically brought the 'Pack back, competing 24 of 39 passes for 310 yards.

Named the MVP of the 2004 Senior Bowl (Jan. 25), leading the South squad to victory with a 12-of-19 passing performance for 219 yards, no interceptions and two TDs in the first quarter plus one series of the fourth.

... MVP of the Gator Bowl, he tallied 228 yards on 23-37 passing and threw for two touchdowns in that contest ... Completed 11 straight passes at one point in the first half ...

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:23 PM
Which bowl are you talking about? The '03 Tangerine Bowl against Kansas??

If so, I think he threw for almost 500 yds.
nah, it was the one i think 2 years before against pittsburgh. they won that kansas game

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:27 PM
He was the MPV of five bowl games, Kast. Which one is it that bothers you?

Kansas University's football team had nearly a month to prepare for Philip Rivers. It wasn't enough. Rivers set North Carolina State and Tangerine Bowl records Monday night at Florida Citrus Bowl for completions (37), completion percentage (82.2), passing yards (475), touchdown passes (five) and total offense (495 yards).

MicronPC.com Bowl
N.C. State 38, Minnesota 30
Matchup Key Stat
Game Recap
Game Summary 300: Rushing yards on 58 carries for the Gophers in an attempt to control the ball, which they did to no avail.
Player of the Game
MVP Philip Rivers, QB, N.C. State. The kid didn't flinch despite a huge deficit and methodically brought the 'Pack back, competing 24 of 39 passes for 310 yards.

Named the MVP of the 2004 Senior Bowl (Jan. 25), leading the South squad to victory with a 12-of-19 passing performance for 219 yards, no interceptions and two TDs in the first quarter plus one series of the fourth.

... MVP of the Gator Bowl, he tallied 228 yards on 23-37 passing and threw for two touchdowns in that contest ... Completed 11 straight passes at one point in the first half ...
:rolleyes: it doesn't BOTHER me, i'm just not too impressed by winning MVPs or any award in college. i like leinart, but you'll never hear me say "he won the heisman" or "he's only lost one game in his career" becuase that means NOTHING. it's about him as a player, which means the decision-making abilities, the physical abilities, etc. it seems the ONLY thing people have for rivers is his bowl MVPs, which is completely useless information, especially in such nothing bowl games where he was the ONLY player of any name (which explains why he won the MVP of a bowl game where he played average and LOST)

nopony
12-31-2005, 09:27 PM
nah, it was the one i think 2 years before against pittsburgh. they won that kansas game

Oh good god. You have to go back to his sophmore year to pick out ONE of his FIVE bowl MVPs to complain about?

Wow. That's a record for reaching.

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE=kastofsna120]nah, it was the one i think 2 years before against pittsburgh. they won that kansas game[/QUO

Not sure, I thought Antonio Bryant was MVP of that game
nah, rivers was. at least i assume he was since everyone says he was MVP of every bowl game he played in. here's a recap of rivers' performance in it:

For the night, Rivers was 26-of-40 for 189 yards and the one touchdown throw to Edwards.
not really MVP calibur

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:33 PM
Oh good god. You have to go back to his sophmore year to pick out ONE of his FIVE bowl MVPs to complain about?

Wow. That's a record for reaching.
lol, considering you're using the argument that he was the MVP of 4 meaningless bowl games, i'd say you're reaching a bit more than i was, especially since i shot down one of the MVP performances easily. the MVP award is completely meaningless, go ahead and stop talking about it

bg34
12-31-2005, 09:34 PM
Why was he MVP of the other bowls??

nopony
12-31-2005, 09:38 PM
lol, considering you're using the argument that he was the MVP of 4 meaningless bowl games, i'd say you're reaching a bit more than i was, especially since i shot down one of the MVP performances easily. the MVP award is completely meaningless, go ahead and stop talking about it

Wrong. I didn't bring up bowl games at all. YOU jumped in with a completely WRONG snark about his game against "Georgia State"?!?

It comes down to the idea that you enjoy not liking Rivers.... no matter how ineffective you are at coming up with reasons why... you just like not liking him. Fine.

nopony
12-31-2005, 09:39 PM
Why was he MVP of the other bowls??

Well, here's his senior game against Kansas...

"Closed his career with a remarkable performance against Kansas in the Tangerine Bowl, hitting 37-of-45 passes for a career-high 475 yards, five touchdowns, no interceptions and rushing for 20 yards as well, breaking school bowl game records and Tangerine Bowl records for passing yards, pass completions, TD passes, completion percentage and total offense, earning MVP honors ... "

yeah. He sucks.

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 09:43 PM
I wonder how Leineart will be without the best offensive and defensive team that NCAA has ever seen...hmm..justa thought..or some say is the best team ever.

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 09:46 PM
yeah. He sucks.
:yes:

I wonder how Leineart will be without the best offensive and defensive team that NCAA has ever seen...hmm..justa thought..or some say is the best team ever.
really good, because he still makes excellent decisions and is extremely accurate to all areas of the field

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 09:49 PM
:yes:

really good, because he still makes excellent decisions and is extremely accurate to all areas of the field


Which is the BEST trait P.Rivers has, as shown in college, and in the NFL (although limited). Also, from what Ive heard with some people from the Bolts, that is his best capability.

So??? Must be something else..?

bg34
12-31-2005, 09:50 PM
I wonder how Leineart will be without the best offensive and defensive team that NCAA has ever seen...hmm..justa thought..or some say is the best team ever.

Leinart would be nothing without his supporting cast.

nopony
12-31-2005, 10:05 PM
Even though I don't care for him personally, I won't diss leinart... he's done a lot and proved a lot... in very similiar ways and reasons as Rivers. And I'd take either of them over an inaccurate, leadership deprived strong arm. Every time.

QB, more than any other position is all about the intangibles. That's why they are so hard to judge and why so many fail. Rivers has intangibles through the roof and he is smart as hell. We could do way worse.

bg34
12-31-2005, 10:08 PM
Even though I don't care for him personally, I won't diss leinart... he's done a lot and proved a lot... in very similiar ways and reasons as Rivers. And I'd take either of them over an inaccurate, leadership deprived strong arm. Every time.

QB, more than any other position is all about the intangibles. That's why they are so hard to judge and why so many fail. Rivers has intangibles through the roof and he is smart as hell. We could do way worse.

Lol, I was just joking around tryin to sound like Kast., Leinart is an excellent qb.

L.T.21
12-31-2005, 10:09 PM
Even though I don't care for him personally, I won't diss leinart... he's done a lot and proved a lot... in very similiar ways and reasons as Rivers. And I'd take either of them over an inaccurate, leadership deprived strong arm. Every time.

QB, more than any other position is all about the intangibles. That's why they are so hard to judge and why so many fail. Rivers has intangibles through the roof and he is smart as hell. We could do way worse.


Agreed. Its just intesting he says that Matts best traits is "because he still makes excellent decisions and is extremely accurate to all areas of the field." Which P.Rivers has shown is his biggest upside...

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 10:17 PM
Which is the BEST trait P.Rivers has, as shown in college, and in the NFL (although limited). Also, from what Ive heard with some people from the Bolts, that is his best capability.

So??? Must be something else..?
rivers was an excellent college QB, no doubt about it, just like leinart. the difference is leinart's abilities actually translate to the NFL

nopony
12-31-2005, 10:22 PM
Lol, I was just joking around tryin to sound like Kast., Leinart is an excellent qb.

Heh.


Agreed. Its just intesting he says that Matts best traits is "because he still makes excellent decisions and is extremely accurate to all areas of the field." Which P.Rivers has shown is his biggest upside...

Absolutely agree.


rivers was an excellent college QB, no doubt about it, just like leinart. the difference is leinart's abilities actually translate to the NFL

:rolleyes:

Keep telling yourself that. There is no reason at all to believe that Leinart's skills will translate any better than Rivers. Many scouts thought Rivers had the skillset BEST suited to translate quickly to the NFL, better than Eli, better than Big Ben.

kastofsna120
12-31-2005, 10:35 PM
:rolleyes:

Keep telling yourself that. There is no reason at all to believe that Leinart's skills will translate any better than Rivers. Many scouts thought Rivers had the skillset BEST suited to translate quickly to the NFL, better than Eli, better than Big Ben.
lol, any scout that can say rivers was better suited for the NFL than eli manning should be fired immediately. there's nothing he does that's better than manning, period. and roethlisberger is better than both of them

dolphan117
12-31-2005, 10:57 PM
lol, any scout that can say rivers was better suited for the NFL than eli manning should be fired immediately. there's nothing he does that's better than manning, period. and roethlisberger is better than both of them

I remeber some people saying that Rivers was the most ready to step in right away and play. I never heard anyone say he was the best qb in the draft though.

nopony
12-31-2005, 11:03 PM
I remeber some people saying that Rivers was the most ready to step in right away and play. I never heard anyone say he was the best qb in the draft though.

I don't think many did. Or Big ben, for that matter. But many thought his skillset would translate the best quickly.

A lot of scouts put Eli, Ben and Philip as "pick 'em".

I would still rather have Big Ben or Rivers over Eli. I'm sure some of that is that I dislike him personally, but he also doesn't excite me as a player. He isn't his brother. i certainly wouldn't have paid what the Giants did.

Jaj
01-01-2006, 12:18 AM
I can't believe I somewhat agree on some things with the Leinart Lover, but then again I don't Leinart for some of the same reasons.

- Leinart's accuracy is completely due to his receivers. Go back to the bowl game last year and look at his passes. All of them were his receivers making big plays.

kastofsna120
01-01-2006, 01:02 AM
- Leinart's accuracy is completely due to his receivers.
:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol::sidelol: