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Becks7
01-02-2006, 12:55 PM
I get the feeling the following will happen. Cutler will go right before we pick, we will then take Michael Huff, then take Croyle in the second round.
Thoughts?

wazzy
01-02-2006, 12:57 PM
Anything is possible but everything is really speculation until Saban gives us a little hint with his smokescreens and stuff on who he is going to pick!

Spegg
01-02-2006, 01:01 PM
Anything is possible but everything is really speculation until Saban gives us a little hint with his smokescreens and stuff on who he is going to pick!

Saban isn't gonna give us anything.

Finfanforever
01-02-2006, 01:01 PM
I get the feeling the following will happen. Cutler will go right before we pick, we will then take Michael Huff, then take Croyle in the second round.
Thoughts?

That's not a bad senario but Croyle at 200 lbs is a little light don't you think? Boomer like him though.

Alien
01-02-2006, 01:01 PM
i havent watched croyle much but ive heard has an amazingly strong arm for how much he weighs, doesnt he only weigh like 203? er something? hed definately need to at least have a year to get bigger and tougher through nfl strength training. he was hyped up alot earlier in the season but i dont seem to hear very much about him anymore, has his play dropped off dramatically?

Jnaledu3
01-02-2006, 01:05 PM
Id rather take Whitehurst in the second.

Caps
01-02-2006, 01:07 PM
I get the feeling the following will happen. Cutler will go right before we pick, we will then take Michael Huff, then take Croyle in the second round.
Thoughts?

Who do you think would take Cutler right before us?

Nappy Roots
01-02-2006, 01:10 PM
Id rather take Whitehurst in the second.


why?

plus we could get him 2nd day

Jnaledu3
01-02-2006, 01:13 PM
why?

plus we could get him 2nd day

LOL..

Whitehurst is a first day pick. The farthest he will fall is the 3rd. He is easily the 3rd best senior QB in the draft behind Leinart and Cutler and he has all the tools for an NFL QB.

Motion
01-02-2006, 01:13 PM
Thats too high for Croyle, he's 3rd or 4th round at best.

Nappy Roots
01-02-2006, 01:19 PM
LOL..

Whitehurst is a first day pick. The farthest he will fall is the 3rd. He is easily the 3rd best senior QB in the draft behind Leinart and Cutler and he has all the tools for an NFL QB.


:lol:

why in the world would you think that? have you ever watched him play?

oldfinfan
01-02-2006, 01:23 PM
:lol:

why in the world would you think that? have you ever watched him play?

I have...and, he's looked pretty sharp. Strong arm and can make the long throw. Must admit, have not seen the other kid.

One thing to keep in mind...in Saban's system, whoever they draft will need to be developed...1-2 yrs min. They should pick with this in mind...a kid that can learn the system and have the physical and mental tools to be THE QB in a couple of years.

cowtowndick
01-02-2006, 01:25 PM
croyle in the 2nd is a waste of the pick - too high. at 200 lbs, he'd get killed, and how much would 10 to 15 pounds of extra weight affect his game, assuming he could even put it on?

Nappy Roots
01-02-2006, 01:26 PM
I have...and, he's looked pretty sharp. Strong arm and can make the long throw. Must admit, have not seen the other kid.

One thing to keep in mind...in Saban's system, whoever they draft will need to be developed...1-2 yrs min. They should pick with this in mind...a kid that can learn the system and have the physical and mental tools to be THE QB in a couple of years.



he looks sharp?

seriously, i dont get why people are so high on him. YES he has a great arm, hes big, and mobile, but beyond that? not much. hes extremely inconsistant. doesnt have good accuracy on his deep ball, not all that accurate, and has never produced.

hes a 4th rounder.

oldfinfan
01-02-2006, 01:32 PM
he looks sharp?

seriously, i dont get why people are so high on him. YES he has a great arm, hes big, and mobile, but beyond that? not much. hes extremely inconsistant. doesnt have good accuracy on his deep ball, not all that accurate, and has never produced.

hes a 4th rounder.

a beer he gets drafted before Croyle. :lol:

Nappy Roots
01-02-2006, 01:36 PM
a beer he gets drafted before Croyle. :lol:


haha, im down for that.

Jnaledu3
01-02-2006, 01:37 PM
a beer he gets drafted before Croyle. :lol:

Heck Ill put a 12 pack that Whitehurst gets drafted before Croyle.

Whitehurst may be inconsistant, but he has all the tools. Croyle has big injury concerns; tore ACLs in both left and right knees and a torn labrum.

Nappy Roots
01-02-2006, 01:40 PM
Heck Ill put a 12 pack that Whitehurst gets drafted before Croyle.

Whitehurst may be inconsistant, but he has all the tools. Croyle has big injury concerns; tore ACLs in both left and right knees and a torn labrum.



chris rix had all the tools to.

who cares if he has all the tools if he cant use them.

Dors156
01-02-2006, 01:43 PM
croyles a sixth,id rather get whitehurst

Becks7
01-02-2006, 01:45 PM
Anybody care to tell me how much Joe Montana weighed? :rolleyes:

oldfinfan
01-02-2006, 01:46 PM
chris rix had all the tools to.

who cares if he has all the tools if he cant use them.

Who the hell is Chris Rix...oh, hold it, isn't he another one of those FSU "wanna be" QB's ??

Let Saban and the coaching staff take care of the "how to use the tools" aspect.

PHANTASTIC 13
01-02-2006, 01:49 PM
How about trading for David Carr or Phillip Rivers. Maybe Brett Favre could be a free agent looking for a new team to play for. Makes you go Hmmmmmmm, doesn't it? :D

oldfinfan
01-02-2006, 01:49 PM
Anybody care to tell me how much Joe Montana weighed? :rolleyes:

Different times...hell, there are several QB's today that weigh more than the middle linebackers did when Montana was playing.

Montana, Starr, Griese, Tarkenton...all weighed in the 190's, soaking wet. But, they were all great QB's

Nappy Roots
01-02-2006, 01:49 PM
Who the hell is Chris Rix...oh, hold it, isn't he another one of those FSU "wanna be" QB's ??

Let Saban and the coaching staff take care of the "how to use the tools" aspect.

:rolleyes2

how is a coach going to use the tools? makes no sense. besides, Whitehurst doesnt have all the tools.

Nappy Roots
01-02-2006, 01:50 PM
How about trading for David Carr or Phillip Rivers. Maybe Brett Favre could be a free agent looking for a new team to play for. Makes you go Hmmmmmmm, doesn't it? :D


Favre makes me go













































:barf:

oldfinfan
01-02-2006, 01:52 PM
How about trading for David Carr or Phillip Rivers. Maybe Brett Favre could be a free agent looking for a new team to play for. Makes you go Hmmmmmmm, doesn't it? :D

Hate to say it, but Favre has lost it...not only in talent, but in desire...reminds me of Danny's last season under JJ.

Only vet QB I feel would be available that I would go after is McNair...

cowtowndick
01-02-2006, 01:55 PM
Anybody care to tell me how much Joe Montana weighed? :rolleyes:

i must have missed all the relevant analysis, the stuff that puts croyle at the same level of development, talent and potential as montana. if croyle played the game the same way montana did (at this stage in their respective careers), then of course you should draft him. but he doesn't - not even close. and if he already has had injury trouble and has taken a beating at the college level, what will happen to him in the nfl?

oldfinfan
01-02-2006, 02:01 PM
:rolleyes2

how is a coach going to use the tools? makes no sense. besides, Whitehurst doesnt have all the tools.

Its the system, my friend...he has plenty of tools...Now, if what you are expecting is for this QB to "leap tall buildings in a single bounce", "be faster than a speeding bullet" and "be stronger than a locomotive", then I challenge you to thell me who that player is.

lets face it, not even Leinart is a sure thing, and he's probably the best QB this year. Look at Alex Smith...struggling at SF, and he had lots of "tools."

There aren't any Brady's, Manning's, Palmer's out there to be had.

Nappy Roots
01-02-2006, 02:04 PM
Its the system, my friend...he has plenty of tools...Now, if what you are expecting is for this QB to "leap tall buildings in a single bounce", "be faster than a speeding bullet" and "be stronger than a locomotive", then I challenge you to thell me who that player is.

lets face it, not even Leinart is a sure thing, and he's probably the best QB this year. Look at Alex Smith...struggling at SF, and he had lots of "tools."

There aren't any Brady's, Manning's, Palmer's out there to be had.


IMO Leinart is a sure thing. you could say its the system about a lot players. i dont expect my QBs to "leap tall buildings in a single bounce", "be faster than a speeding bullet" and "be stronger than a locomotive".....i do expect them to produce when on the football field.

PHANTASTIC 13
01-02-2006, 02:12 PM
Hate to say it, but Favre has lost it...not only in talent, but in desire...reminds me of Danny's last season under JJ.

Only vet QB I feel would be available that I would go after is McNair...
Steve "Opps I am hurt again" McNair, the only QB who gets hurt more often than him is peanut brittle Mike Vick...Mr. OVER-RATED.

mbsinmisc
01-02-2006, 02:14 PM
Id rather take Whitehurst in the second.





Me too. I live in SEC country, and in my very nonexpert opinion, Whitehurst is a better QB

mphelp2
01-02-2006, 03:39 PM
He's looking good against Texas Tech. The only thing that scares me about him is the fact that he looks slight in build. Other than that, I think he's got everything. Very accurate, comes from a pro-style offense under Mike Shula.

DolfanDaveInATX
01-02-2006, 03:41 PM
He has had the ball for more than 38 minutes and produced one touchdown drive against what Texas Tech alleges to be a defense. I am not impressed.

mphelp2
01-02-2006, 03:42 PM
Tech's D ranked 24 in the nation this year. Not a bad defense. You also have to remember that his best target, Prothro, broke his leg against Floria earlier this year.


I think he's the real deal.

duss12
01-02-2006, 03:44 PM
croyle has an arm he is good he has no weapons around him

and what a game that was

FinaticPatch
01-02-2006, 03:46 PM
Very inaccurate........reminds me of a younger Frerotte. A stong arm and good pocket poise but he miss fires on alot of balls just like GUS....I could see his NFL career looking alot like his too.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 03:48 PM
He's extremely efficient. He just doesn't get it in the redzone. He also has nothing around him with Protho out.

19/31 is very efficient, he has the deep ball, and he doesn't throw picks.

FinaticPatch
01-02-2006, 03:58 PM
Very innaccurate as I thought....he is 56th in the nation in comp % and its not cause he is throwing the though deep balls cause he is also 56th in yards per attempt. Ill pass on Croyle.

Roman529
01-02-2006, 04:01 PM
He reminds me a little of Testeverde and Bledsoe, tall and strong arm...not the biggest build but he seems to be able to make the deep throws and touch passes. I have not seen him enough to really like him but I would take Cutler befire Croyle.

SweepeR
01-02-2006, 04:02 PM
Very innaccurate as I thought....he is 56th in the nation in comp % and its not cause he is throwing the though deep balls cause he is also 56th in yards per attempt. Ill pass on Croyle.

he is very inaccurate. misses a lot of open guys and deep balls.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 04:20 PM
Again with statistics, without objectively viewing everything around him and how he actually plays. By the way I've never heard that 60% is a bad completion percentage.

Kev83
01-02-2006, 04:21 PM
As an SEC fan who has watched Croyle play for years, he has the chance to be a steal in the draft.
The key to watch will be his performance in the Senior Bowl.

For anyone who criticized his performance today, remember that his #1 & #2 receivers were out (Prothro injured & Hall out for violating team rules). Croyle has the strongest arm in the SEC...his accuracy is about average.

Someone commented on his completion percentage for the year. Also remember his lack of protection and the fact that he had MANY dropped balls from Soph. WR Zeke Knight & Soph. WR Keith Brown.

About Jay Cutler of Vandy: Cutler actually has a more talented receiving core than Croyle, along with an offense that is geared around him. Alabama has always been, and always will be, a pro-set, "run to open up the pass" system.

I would not take Cutler...I'd save a third round pick for Croyle instead.

DeathStar
01-02-2006, 04:25 PM
injury prone dude. plus bama offense couldn't score in the big games.

quinn, leinart, cutler are my top 3 i want. first two wont be around but i hope 3rd one is by the 16th pick.

Kev83
01-02-2006, 04:29 PM
injury prone dude. plus bama offense couldn't score in the big games.

quinn, leinart, cutler are my top 3 i want. first two wont be around but i hope 3rd one is by the 16th pick.

Quinn would be my top choice...if he weren't staying at ND.
He will be a franchise QB one day.

I hope a good LB, OL, or DB is there at the 16th pick.

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 04:30 PM
It was obvious today that Croyle just doesn't get a whole lot of help from his receiving corp. They were out there running the wrong routes and bumping into each other, they looked pretty bad at times. Keith Brown will be a heck of a receiver as soon as he figures out what he's doing. He's got a lot of athleticism. Croyle was like a babysitter at times.

But, I'll say this. Two minutes left. Game is tied. You're facing a tough defense with an inexperienced receiving corp, bad to mediocre offensive line, and an offensive playbook designed for running the ball on first, second, and third. The Texas Tech D has been playing soft on the flats all game long but now has decided to squat on the short outside routes. What do you do? Croyle threads passes over the middle to the tight end for 17 yards, then to Brooks for 10 yards, then to Keith Brown for 24 yards to get the Tide in position to kick the game winning FG. It's like a less-polished Brady.

Phinja
01-02-2006, 04:32 PM
Wait. This is from the same Alabama team that has to score with their defense to win games? No thanks.



Croyle has the strongest arm in the SEC...his accuracy is about average.


Average accuracy in college usualy means terrible in the pros, where the window to fit the ball is a lot smaller.

Besides, when Kyle Boller came out of college his thing was "super arm, average accuracy" His halmark moment was throwing a ball through the uprights on his knees at the 40 or something...

That arm strength sure has gotten him to a lot of probowls, huh? ;)


Meanwhile guys like Brady who dont have a howitzer for an arm but are accurate like a sniper continue to rack up MVP votes.

Kev83
01-02-2006, 04:34 PM
But, I'll say this. Two minutes left. Game is tied. You're facing a tough defense with an inexperienced receiving corp, bad to mediocre offensive line, and an offensive playbook designed for running the ball on first, second, and third. The Texas Tech D has been playing soft on the flats all game long but now has decided to squat on the short outside routes. What do you do? Croyle threads passes over the middle to the tight end for 17 yards, then to Brooks for 10 yards, then to Keith Brown for 24 yards to get the Tide in position to kick the game winning FG. It's like a less-polished Brady.

Ckparrothead,

That's a great assessment...I'd say Croyle has great potential that he unfortunately was not able to polish in Bama's system. He is a leader, though, and has much more big game and clutch performances than his SEC counterpart, Cutler.

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 04:37 PM
Wait. This is from the same Alabama team that has to score with their defense to win games? No thanks.





Average accuracy in college usualy means terrible in the pros, where the window to fit the ball is a lot smaller.

Besides, when Kyle Boller came out of college his thing was "super arm, average accuracy" His halmark moment was throwing a ball through the uprights on his knees at the 40 or something...

That arm strength sure has gotten him to a lot of probowls, huh? ;)


Meanwhile guys like Brady who dont have a howitzer for an arm but are accurate like a sniper continue to rack up MVP votes.

Kyle Boller was a first round pick. Brodie Croyle is a late round pick. Big difference. And the book isn't closed on Kyle Boller yet either.

Schleprock
01-02-2006, 04:38 PM
Nothing bugs me more than when someone replies online to a message forum like "I am a close fan of the ____" or "I like to follow ____ hobby" ... yadda yadda ...

BIG DEAL!! We all liek football and probably watch just as much as you type of people. Just because you follow X league, team, hobby, fetish, doesn't mean we all should stop and take your info more seriously. :rolleyes:

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 04:40 PM
Nothing bugs me more than when someone replies online to a message forum like "I am a close fan of the ____" or "I like to follow ____ hobby" ... yadda yadda ...

BIG DEAL!! We all liek football and probably watch just as much as you type of people. Just because you follow X league, team, hobby, fetish, doesn't mean we all should stop and take your info more seriously. :rolleyes:

What it means is that while a bunch of people in the thread are probably judging Croyle based on seeing at most a total of 5 minutes of him passing the ball, the person who is a fan of the team has probably seen every pass he's thrown this year.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 04:42 PM
His accuracy is quite a bit better than Boller's was. In his best year Boller hit 53.4% of his passes. Croyle is at 60%...

How is that even close?

Last year Croyle before his injury was at 66%. He can be a very good QB and has many factors similar to Brady.

Schleprock
01-02-2006, 04:42 PM
Kyle Boller was a first round pick. Brodie Croyle is a late round pick. Big difference. And the book isn't closed on Kyle Boller yet either.
Oh really? Is that more of your "professional insight" here? :rolleyes:

I live in Baltimore...and I'll tell you that the only reason Boller is still playing is because of Billick's ego and the fact there is NO ONE out there to bring in that would be as effective in learning the offense so quickly, etc.. That's why the book isn't closed yet. The free agent QB market isn't that great this offseason as well, so that leaves Boller as the only real option again. I'll bet either Ramsey or Kitna is in Baltimore next offseason as competition though, and if so will be the starter.

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 04:46 PM
Oh really? Is that more of your "professional insight" here? :rolleyes:

I live in Baltimore...and I'll tell you that the only reason Boller is still playing is because of Billick's ego and the fact there is NO ONE out there to bring in that would be as effective in learning the offense so quickly, etc.. That's why the book isn't closed yet. The free agent QB market isn't that great this offseason as well, so that leaves Boller as the only real option again. I'll bet either Ramsey or Kitna is in Baltimore next offseason as competition though, and if so will be the starter.

Excuse me? Who the heck are you? Did I sleep with your mother and sister or something?

Kind of ironic how you just posted about how sick you are of people saying "I'm a fan of _____ and let me tell you..." yet when the situation is CONVENIENT for you you're all too quick to whip out the "I live in Baltimore and let me tell you..."

Yeah. That's quality right there. Thanks for giving us all a laugh at true hypocrisy in action.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 04:48 PM
Excuse me? Who the heck are you? Did I sleep with your mother and sister or something?

Kind of ironic how you just posted about how sick you are of people saying "I'm a fan of _____ and let me tell you..." yet when the situation is CONVENIENT for you you're all too quick to whip out the "I live in Baltimore and let me tell you..."

Yeah. That's quality right there. Thanks for giving us all a laugh at true hypocrisy in action.

Same thing I saw and wondered wow, didn't he just what??? :sidelol:

finfan54
01-02-2006, 04:49 PM
It was obvious today that Croyle just doesn't get a whole lot of help from his receiving corp. They were out there running the wrong routes and bumping into each other, they looked pretty bad at times. Keith Brown will be a heck of a receiver as soon as he figures out what he's doing. He's got a lot of athleticism. Croyle was like a babysitter at times.

But, I'll say this. Two minutes left. Game is tied. You're facing a tough defense with an inexperienced receiving corp, bad to mediocre offensive line, and an offensive playbook designed for running the ball on first, second, and third. The Texas Tech D has been playing soft on the flats all game long but now has decided to squat on the short outside routes. What do you do? Croyle threads passes over the middle to the tight end for 17 yards, then to Brooks for 10 yards, then to Keith Brown for 24 yards to get the Tide in position to kick the game winning FG. It's like a less-polished Brady.

Well CK, since you gave an in depth review and everyone else basically wrote him off already cus he is not Cutler, I will take your view with much more credibility. If he is like a less polished Brady, then I think we could be getting him. The other guy I think we will look at more is Shockley, but what do I know?

Lets keep in mind here that Saban drafted matt Flynn and he didnt do anything until the other night. So people need to keep things in perspective.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 04:50 PM
Well CK, since you gave an in depth review and everyone else basically wrote him off already cus he is not Cutler, I will take your view with much more credibility. If he is like a less polished Brady, then I think we could be getting him. The other guy I think we will look at more is Shockley, but what do I know?

Lets keep in mind here that Saban drafted matt Flynn and he didnt do anything until the other night. So people need to keep things in perspective.

I assume you mean Matt Roth?

Well Roth has a very good starter in front of him. Roth was a steal and still is in my mind.

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 04:51 PM
Same thing I saw and wondered wow, didn't he just what??? :sidelol:

Wait for it...I can almost hear the furious typing, fumbling over his own fingers deciding what to say to "get me"...can almost hear the steam coming out of his ears....

Jaj
01-02-2006, 04:52 PM
Wait for it...I can almost hear the furious typing, fumbling over his own fingers deciding what to say to "get me"...can almost hear the steam coming out of his ears....

Anyway onto bigger and better discussion, who do you like more CK, Whitehurst, Croyle, or Betts out of the candidates for big-armed QBs who could be had in the middle rounds.

Schleprock
01-02-2006, 04:54 PM
Excuse me? Who the heck are you? Did I sleep with your mother and sister or something?

Kind of ironic how you just posted about how sick you are of people saying "I'm a fan of _____ and let me tell you..." yet when the situation is CONVENIENT for you you're all too quick to whip out the "I live in Baltimore and let me tell you..."

Yeah. That's quality right there. Thanks for giving us all a laugh at true hypocrisy in action.
Kinda different saying "I am a fan of the SEC" (ie. watching a bunch of games on TV)...and "I actually live IN BALTIMORE" (ie. as in a 5 mile jaunt to the stadium, every 5pm on the News, nauseating post game coverage interruption, players live at bars). I'm not a fan of the team, nor could care less. Therefore my opinions aren't biased. I hope they have Boller QB-ing for a long time. Because I cannot stand the team and love watching them suck, something that will continue with him playing.

Some guy saying I am afan of the SEC and all that goes on, compared to some guy who constantly thinks he's Ron friggin Wolf on a message board with 14,000+ posts and is talking about a specific QB situaition in a city 1500 miles away from where another poster is miles from, is a big difference.

CashInFist
01-02-2006, 04:55 PM
If we don't get a QB in the 1st round...draft Brodie Croyle in the 3rd! :D

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 05:04 PM
I hadn't really considered Betts much of a candidate for Mami but between Croyle and Whitehurst I think Croyle genuinely grades higher. This is because Croyle does not has as many pronounced deficiencies as Whitehurst. They both have really strong arms and for all the talk, pretty good accuracy. Both of their accuracy percentages are manufactured a bit by their offenses...the Clemson offense is run-run-screen, basically. Half the passes Charlie ends up throwing are high percentage screens, flats or slants. Croyle goes through a bit of that too, most of his passes being flats and short as well with some long balls stuck in there. Whitehurst has really good speed for his size...excellent size too. But from what I've seen, Croyle's pretty nimble too he just doesn't turn his speed into positive yards preferring to buy time instead. Whitehurst probably times better.

The difference, aside from leadership, is that Charlie clearly does NOT see the field. At least, not in my experience watching him. He suffers from very pronounced tunnel vision. He doesn't even see half the field. He can miss things that are happening not more than 5 yards to the left or right of whatever he's focusing on out there. Unless someone can somehow implant field vision into his head, he will be an inferior candidate to Croyle.

The lower round guys I like for this offense are Hackney, Croyle, Whitehurst, Nealy, and Meyer...in no particular order. Omar Jacobs could get back on that list if he has a good combine throwing the ball and he gets a QB coach that works with him on dropback mechanics and shows promise during his individual workouts.

Man am I out of breath. I'm watching VTech-Louisville and I had a three-bet parlay with UF over Iowa (pick'em), Alabama over Texas Tech (+3.5), and Virginia Tech over Louisville (-9). $20 to win $120. Two of them already went my way but it looked like VT was not going to get that 10 point lead over Louisville....until Anderson intercepted Louisville and ran it for a TD. I was running all over the house screaming, lol.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 05:06 PM
I hadn't really considered Betts much of a candidate for Mami but between Croyle and Whitehurst I think Croyle genuinely grades higher. This is because Croyle does not has as many pronounced deficiencies as Whitehurst. They both have really strong arms and for all the talk, pretty good accuracy. Both of their accuracy percentages are manufactured a bit by their offenses...the Clemson offense is run-run-screen, basically. Half the passes Charlie ends up throwing are high percentage screens, flats or slants. Croyle goes through a bit of that too, most of his passes being flats and short as well with some long balls stuck in there. Whitehurst has really good speed for his size...excellent size too. But from what I've seen, Croyle's pretty nimble too he just doesn't turn his speed into positive yards preferring to buy time instead. Whitehurst probably times better.

The difference, aside from leadership, is that Charlie clearly does NOT see the field. At least, not in my experience watching him. He suffers from very pronounced tunnel vision. He doesn't even see half the field. He can miss things that are happening not more than 5 yards to the left or right of whatever he's focusing on out there. Unless someone can somehow implant field vision into his head, he will be an inferior candidate to Croyle.

The lower round guys I like for this offense are Hackney, Croyle, Whitehurst, Nealy, and Meyer...in no particular order. Omar Jacobs could get back on that list if he has a good combine throwing the ball and he gets a QB coach that works with him on dropback mechanics and shows promise during his individual workouts.

Man am I out of breath. I'm watching VTech-Louisville and I had a three-bet parlay with UF over Iowa (pick'em), Alabama over Texas Tech (+3.5), and Virginia Tech over Louisville (-9). $20 to win $120. Two of them already went my way but it looked like VT was not going to get that 10 point lead over Louisville....until Anderson intercepted Louisville and ran it for a TD. I was running all over the house screaming, lol.

Yep it's the new year :lol:

Phinja
01-02-2006, 05:06 PM
His accuracy is quite a bit better than Boller's was. In his best year Boller hit 53.4% of his passes. Croyle is at 60%...

How is that even close?

Last year Croyle before his injury was at 66%. He can be a very good QB and has many factors similar to Brady.


Hmmmm.... so Croyle is a whopping 6.6% more accurate than Boller? Well that changes everything!

We passed a grand total of 556 times this season. that averages out to about 35 times a game. So that means Croyle would have hit 1.5 more passes each game than Boller. You were right Croyle is SO much more accurate! :sidelol:

CashInFist
01-02-2006, 05:08 PM
Hmmmm.... so Croyle is a whopping 6.6% more accurate than Boller? Well that changes everything!

We passed a grand total of 556 time this season. that avgers out to about 35 times a game. So that means Croyle would have hit 1.5 more passes each game than Boller. You were right Croyle is SO much more accurate! :sidelol:

There is a huge difference in 53.5% and 60% comp. percentage. A HUGE difference.

Phinja
01-02-2006, 05:08 PM
There is a huge difference in 53.5% and 60% comp. percentage. A HUGE difference.


Sure! a 1.5 completions a game difference. Huge.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 05:08 PM
Hmmmm.... so Croyle is a whopping 6.6% more accurate than Boller? Well that changes everything!

We passed a grand total of 556 time this season. that avgers out to about 35 times a game. So that means Croyle would have hit 1.5 more passes each game than Boller. You were right Croyle is SO much more accurate! :sidelol:

Are you a complete and utter idiot? I'm sorry if that's breaking the TOS or whatever but that's just completely stupid logic. Completely...

Do you have any idea what just said?

That a 60% accuracy percentage doesn't make a difference over 53%?

That's the difference between a starting QB in the NFL and a BUST :sidelol:

Mod Edit: Tone it down please. Insulting another member is never OK.

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 05:09 PM
Hmmmm.... so Croyle is a whopping 6.6% more accurate than Boller? Well that changes everything!

We passed a grand total of 556 time this season. that avgers out to about 35 times a game. So that means Croyle would have hit 1.5 more passes each game than Boller. You were right Croyle is SO much more accurate! :sidelol:

Actually from like 52% accuracy to 58% or 59% accuracy is a pretty big jump. No offense or anything.

Boller and Croyle are different kinds of players though. Anyone who evaluates them will see that. I'm not saying Croyle is better at all. There's a reason he's going to be drafted 3rd or 4th and Boller was a first rounder.

fishfan34
01-02-2006, 05:09 PM
LMAO @ Parrot... too funny...

I was thinking the same thing you were when Croyle was directing that last minute drive. He seemed to be cool and calm, made the throws and put them in FG range.. I felt like I was watching "in your words" a less polished Brady. Nothing spectacular, just making the throws needed to get the job done. I wouldn't mind Croyle in the later in day one...

Boik14
01-02-2006, 05:10 PM
Tech's D ranked 24 in the nation this year. Not a bad defense. You also have to remember that his best target, Prothro, broke his leg against Floria earlier this year.


I think he's the real deal. And his leading wr is out all game. No one said why during the broadcast.

Phinja
01-02-2006, 05:13 PM
Now, I'll admit, if that 1.5 happens to be a game winning OT touchdown, then it is a big difference. Also if one QB averages 15 yds/att and the othe 10 that makes a differance too. But all things being equal a 6.6% increase isnt huge.

CashInFist
01-02-2006, 05:15 PM
Sure! a 1.5 completions a game difference. Huge.


How many more games would the 1-2 completions set up the score we needed to win the game? That would be 24 more completions a year. You think we may be able to pull out 2-3 more wins with the extra completions? Yeah, I do too.

EDIT: Actually, if we really do attempt 35 passes a game it is 1.74 completions better with a 6.6% increase in accuracy. that would equal 27.84 extra completions per season.

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 05:20 PM
Now, I'll admit, if that 1.5 happens to be a game winning OT touchdown, then it is a big difference. Also if one QB averages 15 yds/att and the othe 10 that makes a differance too. But all things being equal a 6.6% increase isnt huge.

I think some folks in this thread need to do some research and compare the accuracy percentages of good QBs and bad QBs in the NFL. It would give you a whole lot more appreciation for that extra 7%.

DorsalPhin
01-02-2006, 05:21 PM
Croyle is OK, but needs work on accuracy and consistency. My guess: 4th RDer; 2 years away from competing as a starter. Nice prospect/project tho'.

CashInFist
01-02-2006, 05:26 PM
Croyle is OK, but needs work on accuracy and consistency. My guess: 4th RDer; 2 years away from competing as a starter. Nice prospect/project tho'.

You may be right about a 4th round prospect but I would definately be OK with Saban drafting him with our 3rd round pick. He is a gamer that knows how to win.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 05:26 PM
Well if we're going to compare Brady and Croyle here's the stats from their final seasons.

Brady 1999- Att. Compl. Completion % P. Yards TDs Ints
295 180 61 % 2217 16 6

Croyle 2005- 339 202 59.5 2499 14 4

kx250
01-02-2006, 05:28 PM
I watched the game today. The first I saw of Croyle. I thought he was ok. Nothing great. I know Alabama doesn't have a very "high powered" offense. Ideally it would be alot easier to judge him in a different offense (one that tries to score more). Could be a good project. Interesting... I decided to pull up Tom Brady's Sr. year stats to compare to Croyle. Pretty similar... the big difference is the yards/completion. Brady was obviously throwing downfield more... Brady was a 6th round pick in 2000

year comp att yards comp% yds/comp long TD Int rating
Croyle 2005 183 308 2224 59.4 7.22 87 13 4 131.40
Brady 1999 214 341 2586 62.8 12.1 57 20 6

Phinja
01-02-2006, 05:30 PM
Are you a complete and utter idiot? I'm sorry if that's breaking the TOS or whatever but that's just completely stupid logic. Completely...

Do you have any idea what just said?

That a 60% accuracy percentage doesn't make a difference over 53%?

That's the difference between a starting QB in the NFL and a BUST :sidelol:


Hey Our QBs avererage around 54%, are thet busts? Several NFL teams have completion % below 58% some as low as 52% including a Division winner (Bears)

But blinded by your empty need to support your own point of view, you misinterpited what I said.

I said (in layman and using small words for those who have a little trouble keeping up) That with the # of passing attempts during our season (556) the difference between 53% pass completions and 60% on a per game basis is about 1.5 completions a game.

So, before you insult me again, read all the words and numbers carefully (and slow...). Add the figures up yourself if you like, there is a calculator on your computer to assist you with all those big bad numbers. :eek:

Jaj
01-02-2006, 05:30 PM
:lol: I did them the same time. Change yours to mine, to include the ball game if you want to be up to date though.

Phinja
01-02-2006, 05:32 PM
How many more games would the 1-2 completions set up the score we needed to win the game? That would be 24 more completions a year. You think we may be able to pull out 2-3 more wins with the extra completions? Yeah, I do too.

EDIT: Actually, if we really do attempt 35 passes a game it is 1.74 completions better with a 6.6% increase in accuracy. that would equal 27.84 extra completions per season.

I did round a little to speed up the process... Sorry ;)

Phinja
01-02-2006, 05:37 PM
I'm just not totally sold on old Croyle just yet. I think he should have done a little better in the college ranks. Im just sick of seeing poor QB play destroy our playoff chances....

oldfinfan
01-02-2006, 05:43 PM
He reminds me a little of Testeverde and Bledsoe, tall and strong arm...not the biggest build but he seems to be able to make the deep throws and touch passes. I have not seen him enough to really like him but I would take Cutler befire Croyle.

Neither Vinny or Bledsoe were that skinny in college...this kid would be down for the count after a big hit from Ray Lewis !

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 05:47 PM
Hey Our QBs avererage around 54%, are thet busts? Several NFL teams have completion % below 58% some as low as 52% including a Division winner (Bears)

But blinded by your empty need to support your own point of view, you misinterpited what I said.

I said (in layman and using small words for those who have a little trouble keeping up) That with the # of passing attempts during our season (556) the difference between 53% pass completions and 60% on a per game basis is about 1.5 completions a game.

So, before you insult me again, read all the words and numbers carefully (and slow...). Add the figures up yourself if you like, there is a calculator on your computer to assist you with all those big bad numbers. :eek:

Are you actually going to try and say that the Bears' passing game under Orton was a STRENGTH for that team? I find it ironic that you accused Jaj of being "blinded by [his] empty need to support [his] own point of view"

Yeesh. A little perspective, please.

CashInFist
01-02-2006, 06:55 PM
I'm just not totally sold on old Croyle just yet. I think he should have done a little better in the college ranks. Im just sick of seeing poor QB play destroy our playoff chances....

The reason I like him is because:

A.) He is a good passer.

B.) He was undefeated last season before he got injured and the team was pathetic the rest of the year.

C.) Alabama still had a great season with an overachieving team with Croyle at the helm with very little talent on offense.

D.) Mike Shula has been coaching him.

E.) I think we can get him in the 3rd round.

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 06:58 PM
The reason I like him is because:

A.) He is a good passer.

B.) He was undefeated last season before he got injured and the team was pathetic the rest of the year.

C.) Alabama still had a great season with an overachieving team with Croyle at the helm with very little talent on offense.

D.) Mike Shula has been coaching him.

E.) I think we can get him in the 3rd round.

I think Mike Shula's opinion on him will be a controlling factor in this. If he says that he calls games the way he does because he doesn't trust Croyle, then he might be a guy you stay away from.

CashInFist
01-02-2006, 07:22 PM
I think Mike Shula's opinion on him will be a controlling factor in this. If he says that he calls games the way he does because he doesn't trust Croyle, then he might be a guy you stay away from.

I totally agree. Mike Shula's opinion on Brodie Croyle will be gospel to Nick Saban. Do you really think Shula would have anything bad to say about him? If so, what could possibly be a red flag aside from his injuries?

Jaj
01-02-2006, 07:37 PM
May I ask why in the world the wrong threads always get moved?

This has to do directly with Miami just like all the other million threads for the off-season...

ckparrothead
01-02-2006, 07:48 PM
May I ask why in the world the wrong threads always get moved?

This has to do directly with Miami just like all the other million threads for the off-season...

This isn't the first time. I'm not sure I understand this neurotic "I don't like my food touching each other" stuff, but clearly some attention needs to be paid to the QUALITY of the thread.

The mods are turning the main forum into a freaking food fight of idiocy. Watering down the quality of the forums. Maybe its their way of forcing veterans to donate to FH and become members of the VIP forums? I dunno.

CashInFist
01-02-2006, 07:49 PM
May I ask why in the world the wrong threads always get moved?

This has to do directly with Miami just like all the other million threads for the off-season...

Totally agree. I thought we were talking about Brodie Croyle being drafted by the Miami Dolphins.

Jaj
01-02-2006, 08:49 PM
Frankly I think it's rude and it destroy whatever opinions are yet to be shared. The sheer amount of people that look at the draft forum as compared to the main forum are FAR LESS...

Jaj
01-03-2006, 01:54 AM
And yet no answer...

TheFallOfTroy54
01-03-2006, 03:26 AM
just like phinja said,
ITS ALL ABOUT ACCURACY

pennington has never had an arm but b4 his injury he too was great on accuracy and was defiently good

phinja said brady already

ckparrothead
01-03-2006, 03:07 PM
And yet no answer...

Have you tried complaining to a mod about this? I'll back you up. This whole separation of forum topics thing is getting out of hand. It's like if you want to talk about a guy in college that Miami may be interested in, and how the guy did in a game today, it gets moved to the college forum. And then if the discussion turns to what round he should be drafted in, it gets moved to the draft forum. And then I'm guessing if Miami drafts the guy and someone bumps the thread and starts bringing up things that were said about him by FH posters prior to the draft, then what, it gets moved back to the main forum?

Good lord. It's too much! It's making the main forum watered down to the Nth degree...to where the only valid discussion is a thread about which pro bowl players you'd put on Miami's roster right now, if given the choice...like a girls slumber party or something ("I'd take Brendon Frazier's face...on Brad Pitt's body...with Chad Michael Murray's butt! Ooooooh!!! Giggle giggle giggle")

caneaddict
01-03-2006, 03:49 PM
I totally agree about this silly seperation.

I agree that DURING the season many posters on the main forum weren't interested in the draft or college so it made some sense.

But now they need to merge the draft and main forum.

If we can't talk draft prospects in the offseason in the main forum then all that's left is talking about free agency. How is a discussion of Steve Hutchinson any more Dolphin related than a discussion of Max Jean Gilles?

kx250
01-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Has anyone with an ESPN Insider account read this article on Croyle from Todd McShay of ESPN? http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=2273299&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dmcshay_todd%26id%3d2273299

I don't have an Insider account, was wondering what he had to say about Croyle.

ckparrothead
01-03-2006, 07:52 PM
Has anyone with an ESPN Insider account read this article on Croyle from Todd McShay of ESPN? http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=2273299&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dmcshay_todd%26id%3d2273299

I don't have an Insider account, was wondering what he had to say about Croyle.

I'd be very interested in seeing what it had to say as well.

ncdolfan
01-03-2006, 11:46 PM
Has anyone with an ESPN Insider account read this article on Croyle from Todd McShay of ESPN? http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=2273299&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dmcshay_todd%26id%3d2273299

I don't have an Insider account, was wondering what he had to say about Croyle.

He thinks Croyle could be a potential steal in the 2nd round - has the "arm strength, accuracy, and intangibles to develop into a solid starting quarterback in the NFL". McShay acknowledges that his small frame and injury history will cause him to slip on draft day.

The article lists 10 draftees that he thinks will be a good value if picked in the 2nd round.

I watched a little bit of the Cotton Bowl on Monday and Croyle does have a rocket for an arm.

Danny
01-04-2006, 02:50 AM
I don't think Croyle will go in the 2nd...he should be there in round 3...I actually like Betts but some people here don't like him at all.

Ozzy rules!! :rockon: :guitar:

CD13
01-09-2006, 06:10 PM
Have you tried complaining to a mod about this? I'll back you up. This whole separation of forum topics thing is getting out of hand. It's like if you want to talk about a guy in college that Miami may be interested in, and how the guy did in a game today, it gets moved to the college forum. And then if the discussion turns to what round he should be drafted in, it gets moved to the draft forum. And then I'm guessing if Miami drafts the guy and someone bumps the thread and starts bringing up things that were said about him by FH posters prior to the draft, then what, it gets moved back to the main forum?

Good lord. It's too much! It's making the main forum watered down to the Nth degree...to where the only valid discussion is a thread about which pro bowl players you'd put on Miami's roster right now, if given the choice...like a girls slumber party or something ("I'd take Brendon Frazier's face...on Brad Pitt's body...with Chad Michael Murray's butt! Ooooooh!!! Giggle giggle giggle")

I love hot chicks. There let's see if they start a new folder. :sidelol:

phins1381
01-09-2006, 07:16 PM
brodie croyle stinks...i hope we dont get him or else i might go bonkers...

hunter5nc1
01-09-2006, 09:27 PM
Interesting how the mods can't even comment on this.

CD13
01-09-2006, 10:26 PM
i havent watched croyle much but ive heard has an amazingly strong arm for how much he weighs, doesnt he only weigh like 203? er something? hed definately need to at least have a year to get bigger and tougher through nfl strength training. he was hyped up alot earlier in the season but i dont seem to hear very much about him anymore, has his play dropped off dramatically?


Well we can resign David Boston, and he can be his fitness trainer... :sidelol:

How tall is he ? You can always had a little bulk to someone.

PhinSoldia
01-09-2006, 11:18 PM
Have you tried complaining to a mod about this? I'll back you up. This whole separation of forum topics thing is getting out of hand. It's like if you want to talk about a guy in college that Miami may be interested in, and how the guy did in a game today, it gets moved to the college forum. And then if the discussion turns to what round he should be drafted in, it gets moved to the draft forum. And then I'm guessing if Miami drafts the guy and someone bumps the thread and starts bringing up things that were said about him by FH posters prior to the draft, then what, it gets moved back to the main forum?

Good lord. It's too much! It's making the main forum watered down to the Nth degree...to where the only valid discussion is a thread about which pro bowl players you'd put on Miami's roster right now, if given the choice...like a girls slumber party or something ("I'd take Brendon Frazier's face...on Brad Pitt's body...with Chad Michael Murray's butt! Ooooooh!!! Giggle giggle giggle")

dear god i thought i was the only one that thought this way...but i kept my mouth shut because i dont want to be banned lol...

mbsinmisc
01-09-2006, 11:48 PM
dear god i thought i was the only one that thought this way...but i kept my mouth shut because i dont want to be banned lol...


Yeah, I love this site but it has changed. There may not be as much traffic back here but the quality of the posters seems improved.

I have never been banned, but if you dont curse and dont get in flaming battles with some of the idiots who love to snipe back and forth, the mods seem pretty flexible.

NorFlaFin
01-10-2006, 11:12 AM
Croyle in the 3-4rd would right later rds he'ld be a steal.

aquawave
01-14-2006, 01:36 AM
What about drafting Croyle? He´s got the arm to get all over the field!

Killer_Dolphins
01-14-2006, 01:38 AM
Haven't heard of this guy till yesterday. Is he any good or is he just a good college QB.

phinfan77
01-14-2006, 01:39 AM
good deep ball.

But please look at the forums and post in the right one

aquawave
01-14-2006, 01:40 AM
He´s a pocket QB, lacks a bit of speed but got an awsome arm.

cowtowndick
01-14-2006, 01:44 AM
He´s a pocket QB, lacks a bit of speed but got an awsome arm.

...and is a fragile as crystal...bad idea, croyle in the second....are you sure about the awesome arm? dude weighs about 200 soaking wet, won't last in the big league.

Venez1284
01-14-2006, 01:45 AM
The guy has that "it" factor based on what I saw this year. You cant blame him that Alabama couldn't score. The running game was average at best and every receiver after Tyrone Prothro was a bum who couldnt get separation for their life.

Motion
01-14-2006, 02:00 AM
Way to high for him, he's a 4th rounder IMO.

dlockz
01-14-2006, 02:20 AM
croyle will go day one based on his combine. Probably has strongest arm in draft.

vt_dolfan
01-14-2006, 02:54 AM
...and is a fragile as crystal...bad idea, croyle in the second....are you sure about the awesome arm? dude weighs about 200 soaking wet, won't last in the big league.

No doubt.....he has a cannon...look it up!!! He also has a long injury history..

Strengths: A pocket passer with adequate height. Continues to add bulk and has the frame to add more. Has excellent arm strength. One of the strongest arms in this draft class. He can make all the NFL throws. Shows great zip on the deep out route. Shows touch and timing as a vertical passer. Can drive the ball downfield and will fit it into tight spots. Has a quick release and shows the ability to get rid of the ball quickly. He shows good overall accuracy. Knows how to beat the blitz. Is improving in terms of making progression reads and reading coverages. Won't throw the ball into coverage very often. Protects the football well. Does a good job of leading his receivers. He's intelligent and hard working. Has very good intangibles. Is a savvy quarterback with a good feel and understanding for the game.

Weaknesses: Has been hampered by injuries throughout his career. Inability to stay healthy is a huge concern and has been a setback in his overall development. He has adequate but not great height. Is lean and still needs to bulk up. Has improved his strength but still needs work in that area. He's not a great athlete. He has below average speed. Doesn't buy enough second-chance passing opportunities. Takes too many sacks and too many hits. Needs to protect himself better. He is not a threat to run. Still needs to improve his underneath touch. He doesn't always take enough velocity off his underneath throws and he won't do a good enough job of leading his receivers on short crossing routes or timing routes.

nopony
01-14-2006, 02:59 AM
Man, this team's fans have become addicted to arm strength.

By itself arm strength is useless. See, Ferotte, Gus. Or George, Jeff. Or Leaf, Ryan.

Every year QBs with strong arms or great height are drafted to early. Both are good things to have, of course, but they are overdrafted qualities.

FaninPatsyLand
01-14-2006, 03:00 AM
I haven't watched all of Bamas games this past year (and maybe some Tide fans can correct me if I'm wrong on this), but from the games that I have seen, this guy needs some serious work on his deep ball. He's got a plus arm, but he's very inaccurate.

In the Cotton Bowl alone, he missed a couple of WIDE OPEN recievers. And we are talking wide open, like no one in 15 yards of the reciever. For all the people who were rioting against Frerotte missing open recievers, this guy to me doesn't present much of an upgrade in that aspect of the position.

NaboCane
01-14-2006, 03:02 AM
***All Members Please Read - Forum Changes!***
Hello Everyone!


Because the staff at FinHeaven is always looking for better ways to organize, and streamline the site, we've decided to re-structure a portion of it.
You'll notice that what was once the College| Draft Forum has now been split.
We've renamed the original forum to simply "College Football" and created a new forum called "Draft Forum". We are now in the process of moving threads around so that they are in the appropriate forums.
We've also created a new sub-forum within the General NFL forum, called "Free Agents".
We ask that you keep these forums in mind when posting, as we'd like to continue keeping the main Dolphins forum uncluttered, and pertaining to the current Dolphins team.

When posting, please keep these guidelines in mind:

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We realize that this may mean an adjustment for everyone, but we feel that in the long run it will make things easier for all of us. Not only will it make it "cleaner" and uncluttered in the main forum, but it will also make it easier to find the FA discussions, mock drafts etc...

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WharfRat

sports24/7
01-14-2006, 03:05 AM
I like the guy and wouldn't mind taking him in maybe the third round, but I would much rather Cutler in the first.

Finfanforever
01-14-2006, 09:14 AM
That would be a HUGH reach. Check ot his injury history...it's about as long as Steven McNair! He will be available in round 3 or maybe even slip to to 4th.

Finfanforever
01-14-2006, 09:15 AM
Man, this team's fans have become addicted to arm strength.

By itself arm strength is useless. See, Ferotte, Gus. Or George, Jeff. Or Leaf, Ryan.

Every year QBs with strong arms or great height are drafted to early. Both are good things to have, of course, but they are overdrafted qualities.

Linehan LOVES arm-strength.

Pocoloco
01-14-2006, 01:51 PM
well if we miss out on Cutler and Jacobs (in rounds 1 & 2), the next best option in Brody Croyle. He was a pretty good quarterback for Alabama, has all the physical skills you'd want. But his injury history might keep him out of day 1.
I've read some scouting reports that say that Croyle will never get any better than he is already, while nearly everyone else has lots of room to improve.

sports24/7
01-14-2006, 03:17 PM
well if we miss out on Cutler and Jacobs (in rounds 1 & 2), the next best option in Brody Croyle. He was a pretty good quarterback for Alabama, has all the physical skills you'd want. But his injury history might keep him out of day 1.
I've read some scouting reports that say that Croyle will never get any better than he is already, while nearly everyone else has lots of room to improve.
Unless Jacobs is spectacualr in workouts and Croyle has some terrible ones, there is no way Jacobs goes ahead of him. I don't see why so many people think Jacobs is going so high. He has potential, but he is a major project.

Pocoloco
01-14-2006, 03:45 PM
Unless Jacobs is spectacualr in workouts and Croyle has some terrible ones, there is no way Jacobs goes ahead of him. I don't see why so many people think Jacobs is going so high. He has potential, but he is a major project.

Because of injuries. Croyle has really bad knees, chronically bad. Jacobs had an injury to his non-throwing shoulder.
Jacobs seems slightly more accurate to me, and he is definately more mobile. I think Jacobs is simply a better bet to be able to endure the rigors of starting in the NFL.

phins1381
01-16-2006, 04:44 PM
im uga fan and i have seen this guy a few times...strong arm , pretty decent . read coverages pretty well but gets injured quite a bit..my questions for everyone is..if he was there in thr 4th round would you take him as your future qb for this team ?

Pocoloco
01-16-2006, 05:02 PM
only if we missed out on QB in rounds 1-3. I question whether the guy can hold up for a full NFL season. I think he might make a really good backup with time.

NorFlaFin
01-16-2006, 05:02 PM
4rd? Heck ya! I'd draft in the 3rd.

Danny
01-16-2006, 05:07 PM
In the 4th round, yes...some people have him going in the 3rd....I've seen a couple of mocks where he's going to us in the 3rd tho mocks don't mean anything more than just fun.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

maninblack25
01-16-2006, 05:12 PM
he is only a short term fix, he over threw alot of his wr this yr
take it from someone who is from tuscaloosa home of the crimson tide.
he could still be there in the 6th round

finfan54
01-16-2006, 08:06 PM
He will be on Sabans radar but I think he may be down on his list, so yes, if he is there in rd. four, and we have not picked a Qb yet, I could see Croyle.

Becks7
01-22-2006, 01:29 PM
If Cutler is not there at 16 what about taking a guy like Greenway and then taking Croyle in the second?

What are your opinions on Croyle?

Caps
01-22-2006, 01:34 PM
I wouldn't spend more than a 3rd on Croyle. He's the 4th or 5th best QB prospect in the draft IMO.

finfan54
01-22-2006, 01:44 PM
Well, Croyle is intriguing. If you dont hear a thing about him from Saban, then I would say he is way up on Saban's radar. I think he will interview all the QB's and check the characters. I think Omar Jacobs, Whitehurst, Croyle, Shockley are all possibilities but the charachter I think means alot and not making mistakes. Croyle certainly fits that bill. He has some injury issues I understand but so did Crowder and he dropped. So maybe Saban plays the same game.

amir7
01-22-2006, 03:12 PM
he has great arm, and throws the deep ball very well. something that might be a problem is his injuries. i wouldnt mind snagging him in the 3rd

paskerbrandon
01-22-2006, 03:59 PM
He looks like a Brady clone... I dont think he will be as good as Tom but he really looks like him coming out of college... I would spend a 3rd or 4th on him...

sports24/7
01-22-2006, 04:41 PM
I like him alot. If we don't get Cutler I think we need to get Croyle. I really think at this point he is underrated and will really open some eyes at the Senior Bowl.

Dolfan_Noles
01-22-2006, 05:04 PM
Mel Kiper loves Croyle, and Todd McShay (Scouts Inc.) says he will be the biggest sleeper/steal at QB in the draft. Great arm strength, even played well when his top two receivers went down. I wouldnt be dissapointed at all if we drafted Croyle with our second.

PHINSfan
01-22-2006, 06:17 PM
Croyle wont be there with our 3rd rd pick. If Cutler is gone at #16 then he may be an option in the 2nd rd.

Dolfansal
01-22-2006, 06:21 PM
He is my second choice behind cutler.

BigDogsHunt
01-22-2006, 06:47 PM
Croyle in a later round is more interesting to me than Cutler at 16.

Cutler in a later round is more interesting than Croyle at all......

beejay05
01-22-2006, 06:48 PM
I like his intanglibles....i would almost rather get a defensive stud in teh first, and hten grab Croyle in the 3rd. Mayb second, but i think that is a little reach.

ckparrothead
01-22-2006, 06:53 PM
The way I'm sensing things are going for Croyle...I know everyone is almost already penciling Cutler in for a big Senior Bowl and moving into the high first round, but the guy I think that will look best at the Senior Bowl is Brodie Croyle. And, if he does, don't be surprised if he moves into the first round area. People see too much of Tom Brady in this guy, IMO, for them to allow him to slide into the 3rd round area.

IMO, when all is said and done, I think you could see Croyle move into the same area that Jason Campbell moved into last year.

djfresh47
01-22-2006, 07:09 PM
I wouldn't spend more than a 3rd on Croyle. He's the 4th or 5th best QB prospect in the draft IMO.

I think he's probably the 4th best Qb, but because I think Cutler/Leinart/Young all go in the first, he'll be taken in the 2nd rd.

Jaj
01-22-2006, 07:17 PM
The way I'm sensing things are going for Croyle...I know everyone is almost already penciling Cutler in for a big Senior Bowl and moving into the high first round, but the guy I think that will look best at the Senior Bowl is Brodie Croyle. And, if he does, don't be surprised if he moves into the first round area. People see too much of Tom Brady in this guy, IMO, for them to allow him to slide into the 3rd round area.

IMO, when all is said and done, I think you could see Croyle move into the same area that Jason Campbell moved into last year.

If he gained enough weight and everything goes perfectly maybe he sneaks in similar to J.P. Losman.

FINSTER
01-22-2006, 08:07 PM
If Cutler is not there at 16 what about taking a guy like Greenway and then taking Croyle in the second?

What are your opinions on Croyle?

If Cutler is a no go, I love Croyle.

Kucha
01-23-2006, 12:36 PM
I think he's probably the 4th best Qb, but because I think Cutler/Leinart/Young all go in the first, he'll be taken in the 2nd rd.

Just because he is the 4th best QB, opinions that he will drop to the second round doesn't mean squat. There have been drafts when 4 QB's were taken in the first. If the QB has talent and looks promising, teams will be more than willing to spend a very high draft pick for him...and if Croyle plays, practices and interviews well, he will sneak into the first round...yea his size is an issue but he could overcome that with good intangibles. Alot will depend on what happens in the next couple of months.

TimeGap
01-23-2006, 01:05 PM
No thanks to Croyle, Id rather draft Josh Betts in a later round.

finfan54
01-23-2006, 09:49 PM
i must have missed all the relevant analysis, the stuff that puts croyle at the same level of development, talent and potential as montana. if croyle played the game the same way montana did (at this stage in their respective careers), then of course you should draft him. but he doesn't - not even close. and if he already has had injury trouble and has taken a beating at the college level, what will happen to him in the nfl?


maybe the same thing they said about Channing Crowder.

finfan54
01-23-2006, 09:56 PM
If he gained enough weight and everything goes perfectly maybe he sneaks in similar to J.P. Losman.

Although I think Saban has Croyle high on his radar, I dont think Croyle makes it anywhere near the 1st round. That is part of the mystique about him. Saban loves value. always keep in mind that Saban generally keeps his rookies at bay for a while so if we do get a Croyle, he will be the 3rd stringer behind Lemon for sure for a year. After that, the sparks fly.

If Cutler is anywhere on Sabans radar, Cutler would have to absolutely impress him to take him at 16 IMO. That is why I think we get a QB later and then another one much later (7th round). Cutler may also be the guy he uses as his media chip to throw people off.

BlueFin
01-23-2006, 11:21 PM
Anybody care to tell me how much Joe Montana weighed? :rolleyes:

Did Montana have a chronic injury history coming out of college?

BlueFin
01-23-2006, 11:28 PM
The way I'm sensing things are going for Croyle...I know everyone is almost already penciling Cutler in for a big Senior Bowl and moving into the high first round, but the guy I think that will look best at the Senior Bowl is Brodie Croyle. And, if he does, don't be surprised if he moves into the first round area. People see too much of Tom Brady in this guy, IMO, for them to allow him to slide into the 3rd round area.

IMO, when all is said and done, I think you could see Croyle move into the same area that Jason Campbell moved into last year.

I seriously doubt it, His slight build, poor mobility and injury history will probably slide him into 3rd-4th round area.

TexPhinPhan
01-25-2006, 12:46 PM
Listening to NFL radio this morning on Sirius (god a I love Sirius. Combined with Directv, you never miss any nfl game). He said, after talking to Norv Turner about Coyle, that he believes that Coyle throws a better ball than Cutler. He was very impressed with Coyle. He DID NOT SAY Coyle was better, however.

I have never seen either guy play, so I have no opinion, just reporting what Kirwan and his side kick said.

TexPhinPhan

ckparrothead
01-25-2006, 12:53 PM
If Norv likes Brodie, that's good enough for me man.

TexPhinPhan
01-25-2006, 01:10 PM
If Norv likes Brodie, that's good enough for me man.
Norv also pointed out that Coyle was doing well because he was coached up by Mike Shula and that Bama runs the same type of offense that Norv does.

SF Dolphin Fan
01-25-2006, 01:56 PM
I haven't seen Cutler, but I have seen Croyle quite a few times. I really like the kid. I would say he has just about everything you look for in a quarterback, leadership, ability to read defense, a strong arm, pretty accurate. Plus, he did a lot with very little talent around him at Alabama. The major drawback is that he's been injury prone.

dcdolfan
01-25-2006, 03:49 PM
If Norv likes Brodie, that's good enough for me man.

LOL Be careful with that b/c Norv also liked Heath Shuler. But generally, I would agree with your statement.

tmny99
01-25-2006, 05:43 PM
Enough already about Croyle's weight people. How much did Tom Brady weigh? Plus the guys has a stronger arm than Brady. He'll bulk in the league...it's not like he'll be 200 lbs when he's asked upon to play. Saban believes in red shirting players as we all saw this year, and any QB won't play for possibly two years depending on how successful the veteran acquisition does.

Bartowboy
01-25-2006, 06:05 PM
Michael Huff will be gone by the time we pick.Im looking towards Jimmy Williams.

Jaj
01-25-2006, 06:16 PM
Enough already about Croyle's weight people. How much did Tom Brady weigh? Plus the guys has a stronger arm than Brady. He'll bulk in the league...it's not like he'll be 200 lbs when he's asked upon to play. Saban believes in red shirting players as we all saw this year, and any QB won't play for possibly two years depending on how successful the veteran acquisition does.

He's a big school sleeper, simple as that. Brady has gained nearly 15lbs on 6-4 frame and seriously improved his arm strength. Croyle has slightly better mobility as well. Their college play and stats are quite similar except obviously Brady went to a school with better players.

finfan54
01-25-2006, 08:42 PM
He's a big school sleeper, simple as that. Brady has gained nearly 15lbs on 6-4 frame and seriously improved his arm strength. Croyle has slightly better mobility as well. Their college play and stats are quite similar except obviously Brady went to a school with better players.


croyle is 6-4? I thought he was like 6-2 or 3. If he has a big enough frame, he will be 220 lbs by the time he plays. If its true about his leadership and reads defenses, this is what is important.

BigDogsHunt
01-25-2006, 09:47 PM
With Shula the coach of Alabama, and obviously the tie back to the Dolphins franchise, how much if any will that help with a decision to draft Croyle under the Saban regime?

Any?, little?, better because of the tie? Zippy?

Caps
01-25-2006, 09:49 PM
With Shula the coach of Alabama, and obviously the tie back to the Dolphins franchise, how much if any will that help with a decision to draft Croyle under the Saban regime?

Any?, little?, better because of the tie? Zippy?

That's my guess.

BigDogsHunt
01-25-2006, 09:50 PM
croyle is 6-4? I thought he was like 6-2 or 3. If he has a big enough frame, he will be 220 lbs by the time he plays. If its true about his leadership and reads defenses, this is what is important.

No he was talking about Tom Brady being 6' 4"

Croyle is 6' 2" and 1/4 inch at 200lbs (offical Senior Bowl)

BigDogsHunt
01-25-2006, 09:51 PM
That's my guess.

Yeah, I would think its no different than any other relationship....but the tie-in is kinda interesting.

Caps
01-25-2006, 09:58 PM
Yeah, I would think its no different than any other relationship....but the tie-in is kinda interesting.

I'd say if there was any tie we should pay attention to between our staff and Croyle, it's the fact that Brodie is an SEC boy. That's more relevant than the Shula connection IMO.

burghPhinFan
01-25-2006, 10:06 PM
my first visit to the draft forum guys, lotsa good insight on Brodie. thanks

adamprez2003
01-26-2006, 05:00 AM
Croyle is timid in the face of a strong pass rush. He'll crumble in the NFL. We should really make a trade for Cutler. His upside is that of a Pro Bowl QB whereas everyone else in the Senior Bowl is a backup or mediocre starter at best

Danny
01-26-2006, 10:38 AM
I get the feeling the following will happen. Cutler will go right before we pick, we will then take Michael Huff, then take Croyle in the second round.
Thoughts?
I'm not reading this whole thread cos is up to 165 posts but I can say this....if we want Croyle then we'll have to take him in the 2nd cos he won't be there in the 3rd....also, he might not even be there at 51 for us either......the teams that need QB that don't get one in the 1st round will still needs a QB and they're picking ahead of us in round 2...only 3 QB's will be taken in the 1st round.If the lions get Cutler then Arizona who'll probably take Deangelo Williams with their first pick are bound to pick a QB in the 2nd and it could be Croyle......if that happens then we have to start looking at Whitehurts.If Croyle is there in the 2nd for us tho we need to do this with him...... :abduct: and bring him here..... :D

Ozzy rules!! :rockon: :guitar:

Hostile 17
01-26-2006, 11:11 AM
Croyle is timid in the face of a strong pass rush. He'll crumble in the NFL. We should really make a trade for Cutler. His upside is that of a Pro Bowl QB whereas everyone else in the Senior Bowl is a backup or mediocre starter at bestI've been really slow to come around to the idea of a rookie QB this year, simply because we had no chance at Leinart and I didn't think anyone else in the draft was really ready to start in the pros. I'm now climbing onto the Cutler bandwagon (and I'd really like to retire that term - along with 'groom', the most ludicrously over-used term on these dopey forums. Seriously the word 'groom' is repeated endlessly about 50 times in each thread, it seems. Is there NO other term to describe the training of a young QB? ..Never mind, I'm off on a rant.).

So if we can't reasonably get David Carr and if the staff feels Rivers or Ramsey won't get the job done, then we have to get aggressive and trade up for Cutler. I cringe at the cost, but isn't that what's required when you want to secure a franchise quarterback? I don't know, it's been over 20 years since we've tried to do one of these things...
:hmmm:

Pocoloco
01-26-2006, 11:19 AM
Omar Jacobs is still our best bet, then Drew Olson..
and then maybe, just maybe, can we talk about Brodie Croyle and Charlie Whitehurst. Not the other way around

Motion
01-26-2006, 11:26 AM
Omar Jacobs is still our best bet, then Drew Olson..
and then maybe, just maybe, can we talk about Brodie Croyle and Charlie Whitehurst. Not the other way around

Croyle and Whitehurst are both better than Olson.

Finfanforever
01-26-2006, 12:13 PM
Croyle and Whitehurst are both better than Olson.

and Jacobs IMO.

BALLS DEEP
01-26-2006, 01:31 PM
Anything is possible but everything is really speculation until Saban gives us a little hint with his smokescreens and stuff on who he is going to pick!
I would not want to play poker against Saban.

adamprez2003
01-26-2006, 06:15 PM
I've been really slow to come around to the idea of a rookie QB this year, simply because we had no chance at Leinart and I didn't think anyone else in the draft was really ready to start in the pros. I'm now climbing onto the Cutler bandwagon (and I'd really like to retire that term - along with 'groom', the most ludicrously over-used term on these dopey forums. Seriously the word 'groom' is repeated endlessly about 50 times in each thread, it seems. Is there NO other term to describe the training of a young QB? ..Never mind, I'm off on a rant.).

So if we can't reasonably get David Carr and if the staff feels Rivers or Ramsey won't get the job done, then we have to get aggressive and trade up for Cutler. I cringe at the cost, but isn't that what's required when you want to secure a franchise quarterback? I don't know, it's been over 20 years since we've tried to do one of these things...
:hmmm:

Agreed. If we're going to go the route of drafting a QB we need to package some deal to get Cutler. Otherwise we need to figure out which of the free agent QBs has the potential to shine for us and get him. After Cutler, the drop off is so huge, I wouldn't bother with any of the QBs until the 5th.

Hostile 17
01-26-2006, 10:06 PM
Agreed. If we're going to go the route of drafting a QB we need to package some deal to get Cutler. Otherwise we need to figure out which of the free agent QBs has the potential to shine for us and get him. After Cutler, the drop off is so huge, I wouldn't bother with any of the QBs until the 5th.Yeah, I agree. If the price tag on Cutler is more than we have in the piggy bank, I'm relying on our front office to make a trade for an under-30 QB with potential in a change of scenery.

Patrick Ramsey seems to fit that description the closest of all the names floating around out there. I wonder what Saban and Co. think of him? If he impresses in workouts he might be had for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

EDIT: I also agree on the drop-off. Brodie Croyle looks like he has all the tools, but our staff must carefully evaluate his injury history. He could have all the tools but never last an NFL season. Reminds me a lot of Chris Chandler...

Jaj
01-26-2006, 10:11 PM
I think a trade could be had for Marty Booker and here's why. Booker is a cheap #2 WR, has no signing bonus left in his contract and is exactly what the Redskins need at WR. The Redskins are far far over the cap and numerous cuts are necessary so the trade makes sense.

finfan54
01-26-2006, 10:33 PM
Agreed. If we're going to go the route of drafting a QB we need to package some deal to get Cutler. Otherwise we need to figure out which of the free agent QBs has the potential to shine for us and get him. After Cutler, the drop off is so huge, I wouldn't bother with any of the QBs until the 5th.


Well, based on what I am hearing from the senior bowl, if Tennessee is liking Cutler very much, then I cant see how any package that we have is good enough for a franchise type in Cutler going that high. It is still early, but QB's are such commodity's, its hard not to envision with all the salivating going on for Cutler, that if anyone wants to deal with teams in the top 5 spots for Cutler, then those teams who are 5-10 have significantly more power than us to get him.

Captain! We just havent got the power!


As for your not bothering with any of the other QB's until much later, that is a mistake not worth taking.

Jaj
01-26-2006, 10:35 PM
To say the least if Cutler goes at 3, this'll just completely demolish previous draft boards. The whole draft will be skewed, which can be a good thing for us once the mess clears around 16.

finfan54
01-26-2006, 10:41 PM
Yeah, I agree. If the price tag on Cutler is more than we have in the piggy bank, I'm relying on our front office to make a trade for an under-30 QB with potential in a change of scenery.

Patrick Ramsey seems to fit that description the closest of all the names floating around out there. I wonder what Saban and Co. think of him? If he impresses in workouts he might be had for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

EDIT: I also agree on the drop-off. Brodie Croyle looks like he has all the tools, but our staff must carefully evaluate his injury history. He could have all the tools but never last an NFL season. Reminds me a lot of Chris Chandler...

well the answere to the injury thing on Croyle can be solved. Its called building a strong OL. We were one of the better teams in the NFL in sacks allowed. Saban and Houck understand mass protection very well. Also, Croyle would sit the first year and be our 3rd stringer behind Lemon IMO while he bulks up his body in the weight room a bit. I disagree on the dropoff however unless your talking about vince Young and Leinert. Cutler is quickly showing his abilities and talent, but so is Croyle. What a lot of teams are looking for is ability to read defenses and mental ability. That is where Croyle scores points based on what i have heard. He also has a good arm. There is still much to be seen yet. Cant wait til Saturday.

PhinSoldia
01-26-2006, 11:49 PM
To say the least if Cutler goes at 3, this'll just completely demolish previous draft boards. The whole draft will be skewed, which can be a good thing for us once the mess clears around 16.

and when the mess clears dont be shcoked if you see # 10 from texas right there

Hostile 17
01-26-2006, 11:55 PM
and when the mess clears dont be shcoked if you see # 10 from texas right thereGod help us..

PhinSoldia
01-27-2006, 12:03 AM
God help us..

EDIT: i dont want him at all then we could trade the 16th to the highest bidder

Danny
01-27-2006, 02:42 AM
Is drafting Croyle in the 1st round a reach? Maybe but if we don't to it then we could be left out of the running...here's my reasoning....the top 3 QB's are gonna be gone before our pick at 16.The next best guy is Croyle and it'd be nice to get him with our 2nd round pick(he won't be there in the 3rd round guys)but here's the problem.If the lions take Cutler then Arizona will take a RB(Williams)and they'd still need a good QB.....They pick ahead of us in the 2nd round too....if they want a QB who are they gonna take?...that's right, they'll take Croyle before we get a chance to take him so what are we to do?....maybe we can trade down into the 20's and get an extra 2nd round pick which wouold also be in the 20's of course.With our top pick now in the 20's we could draft Croyle and then in the 2nd we can go OLB(Carpenter?)and o-line(Mangold,Winston?) I know you guys are gonna say that 1st round is too early for him but you'd take him in the 2nd.....it doesn't make sense cos regarless of where you take him he'll still be the same player.In the end....if we can come out of it with Croyle, Carpenter and Mangold would you guys complain that we got Croyle in the 1st? I'm telling you guys that he's not gonna be there at 51 for us and then who do we take? Anyway,I know I'm gonna get flame here but is late so I'll answer to my charges in the morning... :D

Ozzy rules!

D-Rock
01-27-2006, 02:51 AM
If we cant get Jay Cutler in the upcoming draft, I don't think Brodie Croyle will be that bad of a choice.....
They rate him as the clear 'Cream of the Crop' on the South team at QB...

But how do we acquire him?? Trade down?? Pick him with the 1st pick?? Or hope he is around in the 2nd round??

Just something to think about :dolphins: :dolphins:

Phins28
01-27-2006, 02:52 AM
If we cant get Jay Cutler in the upcoming draft, I don't think Brodie Croyle will be that bad of a choice.....
They rate him as the clear 'Cream of the Crop' on the South team at QB...

But how do we acquire him?? Trade down?? Pick him with the 1st pick?? Or hope he is around in the 2nd round??

Just something to think about :dolphins: :dolphins:
He's the steal of the draft IMO

FinNasty
01-27-2006, 02:56 AM
I know he has had some injury issues... does anyone know what his injuries have been? Were they serious? or were they just minor?

Oraclepz
01-27-2006, 02:57 AM
first pick is way tooo much of a reach... but him or omar.. i have trust in the scouting we have in place... ill be happy with almost who ever they choose...

fishfan34
01-27-2006, 02:59 AM
I think we just hope he's there in the second or trade down in the first for some more 3rd or 4th rounders and get him then..

byroan
01-27-2006, 03:03 AM
There's a draft forum for topics like this.

PHINSfan
01-27-2006, 03:38 AM
Croyle has surely moved up in the draft. Right now he is seen as a late 1st to early-mid 2nd rd. The thing with Qb's is that because of the scarcity of talent, teams will reach for a specific player. If Croyle has a good combine dont be surprised to see him continue to go up the boards. Right now...he is a reach at #16, but he may be gone by the time we pick in the 2nd rd.

PHINSfan
01-27-2006, 03:56 AM
I know he has had some injury issues... does anyone know what his injuries have been? Were they serious? or were they just minor?

The kid has has some serious injuries. As a senior in High School he tored his left ACL. As a Junior in College, he tored his right ACL. He has also had some shoulder injuries, althought those have not been too serious.
It's really a shame because this guy has all the tools needed to really be productive in the NFL.
His father (John Croyle) was a star DE for Bear Bryant in the 70's and has been instrumental in Brodie's development. The kid has been around football his whole life. I have several friends in Alabama who know, and rave, about this kid. The main concern of course are those injuries.... Can he take the pounding of the NFL? But as far as character, I've heard that even when he was injured Brodie was the unquestioned leader of Bama. He played hurt several times and really earned the respect of his team mates.

PHINSfan
01-27-2006, 03:58 AM
I know he has had some injury issues... does anyone know what his injuries have been? Were they serious? or were they just minor?

Nasty, even with those injuries, the people I know in Alabama (a few are dolphin fans by the way) would love this guy in a Phins uniform. He has a ton of talent, leadership, football knowledge, and can really read D's.
Saban seems to take chances with players with a history of injuries...so we'll see.

PHINSfan
01-27-2006, 04:14 AM
Danny as fr as I'm concerned you shouldn't get flame....you have some very valid points.
The way Croyle has played so far, and the lack of good Qb prospect, has made where he will end up being drafted a very hard thing to guess right now. If he continues to impress in the Senior Bowl with a good game, and has a good combine, he might move up all the way up to the middle of the first rd.
The big knock on him, of course, are his injuries ( 2 ACL's surgeries and shoulder problems).... Can this kid take the pounding of the NFL??? Saban knows him very well and he has drafted players that he knew well, who had serious injuries. So we'll see.

Motion
01-27-2006, 07:49 AM
Only concern I have with Croyle besides the obvious frame and durability issues was Bama's lack of offense at times this season. People bash Cutler cause he plays on a losing team yet he more than pulls his weight and puts up the numbers needed to win. Croyle on the other hand lead an offense that went 2 or 3 games without scoring an offensive TD.

finfan54
01-27-2006, 07:58 AM
Only concern I have with Croyle besides the obvious frame and durability issues was Bama's lack of offense at times this season. People bash Cutler cause he plays on a losing team yet he more than pulls his weight and puts up the numbers needed to win. Croyle on the other hand lead an offense that went 2 or 3 games without scoring an offensive TD.


SEC is where its at. Tough defenses in the SEC.

finfan54
01-27-2006, 08:01 AM
If we cant get Jay Cutler in the upcoming draft, I don't think Brodie Croyle will be that bad of a choice.....
They rate him as the clear 'Cream of the Crop' on the South team at QB...

But how do we acquire him?? Trade down?? Pick him with the 1st pick?? Or hope he is around in the 2nd round??

Just something to think about :dolphins: :dolphins:



Just wait, its not a reach if he keeps climbing up teams boards. Once again, keep an eye on DEnver with two #1's. It wont be a reach for them to take Croyle with one of those. It would be considered very smart.

Boomer
01-27-2006, 08:09 AM
Croyle is a solid mid 2nd round pick.

kitt23
01-27-2006, 08:23 AM
it looks like cutler to miami is getting less and less likely especially now that the jets are seriously considering trading down to get cutler. i would definitely take croyle 2nd rd though.

Boomer
01-27-2006, 08:35 AM
it looks like cutler to miami is getting less and less likely especially now that the jets are seriously considering trading down to get cutler. i would definitely take croyle 2nd rd though.

It just may be that the Jets have to trade UP to get Cutler.

BlueFin
01-27-2006, 09:06 AM
I know he has had some injury issues... does anyone know what his injuries have been? Were they serious? or were they just minor?

Both knees were blown out, just to name two.....thats pretty serious.

I think there is more.

Motion
01-27-2006, 09:10 AM
Both knees were blown out, just to name two.....thats pretty serious.

I think there is more.

Yeah, he messed up his shoulder pretty bad his junior year.

Motion
01-27-2006, 09:11 AM
It just may be that the Jets have to trade UP to get Cutler.

Ugh, anybody but the Jets. :mad:

adamprez2003
01-27-2006, 09:14 AM
The main problem I have with Croyle is he absolutely crumbled in the face of a strong pass rush in the games that I saw. He did have a few good games to go with the bad so I am open to picking him up with the 2nd if he's available but I absolutely wouldn't chase this guy. His slight frame, injury history and fear of getting hit are too many flags to chase him. A mid 2nd rounder is worth the gamble that his fear of getting hit was due to the fact that he was a senior and had a payday coming and didnt want another knee injury. He's got a decent arm, decent smarts and if his skittishness is due to him wanting a payday, he's worth a shot in the 2nd. By no means should we consider ourselves to have solved the problem at QB if we draft him though. I would still bring in a free agent. My preference if we dont get Cutler is waiting till the 5th and taking Gradkowski or Meyer. Gradkowski at worst will be a good backup and Meyer might turn out to be the steal of the draft from what Ive read about him, though he's probably a 3 year project. Either way the reward is the same but the risk is less if you use a 5th instead of a 2nd

adamprez2003
01-27-2006, 09:32 AM
EDIT: I also agree on the drop-off. Brodie Croyle looks like he has all the tools, but our staff must carefully evaluate his injury history. He could have all the tools but never last an NFL season. Reminds me a lot of Chris Chandler...

Great comparison with Chandler. I always liked Chandler but he was as fragile as they came. Whoever we draft we should bring in a 20 something vet. I havent written off Ramsey as alot of people here have. I also would like McCOWN or possibly Volek now that Tennessee is looking at QBs. I really think we need one in free agency and one through the draft

Boomer
01-27-2006, 09:38 AM
The main problem I have with Croyle is he absolutely crumbled in the face of a strong pass rush in the games that I saw. He did have a few good games to go with the bad so I am open to picking him up with the 2nd if he's available but I absolutely wouldn't chase this guy. His slight frame, injury history and fear of getting hit are too many flags to chase him. A mid 2nd rounder is worth the gamble that his fear of getting hit was due to the fact that he was a senior and had a payday coming and didnt want another knee injury. He's got a decent arm, decent smarts and if his skittishness is due to him wanting a payday, he's worth a shot in the 2nd. By no means should we consider ourselves to have solved the problem at QB if we draft him though. I would still bring in a free agent. My preference if we dont get Cutler is waiting till the 5th and taking Gradkowski or Meyer. Gradkowski at worst will be a good backup and Meyer might turn out to be the steal of the draft from what Ive read about him, though he's probably a 3 year project. Either way the reward is the same but the risk is less if you use a 5th instead of a 2nd

Don't forget he was operating with very linmited skill position resources, especially when Prothro broke his leg.

adamprez2003
01-27-2006, 09:45 AM
Don't forget he was operating with very linmited skill position resources, especially when Prothro broke his leg.

Very good point and its why he might be worth the risk. Saban's gotta decide that one. I haven't seen enough from him to sell me on him but the factor you mention plus the ones I brought up make him an acceptable risk so long as you don't overpay to get him. I think that's the key. With such high risk, the draft pick we give up has to be an acceptable one. I would prefer to risk not getting him rather than pay up to get him

NorFlaFin
01-27-2006, 09:52 AM
Croyle reminds of Chris Weinke with a much stronger arm.
At 'Bama he was the unquestioned leader in the huddle. You just can't coach leadership like that. Then you gotta rave about the arm strength, can't coach that either.

2nd? I'd do backflips and marry Jessica Alba. (what a hardship!)

BamaPhinFan
01-27-2006, 10:32 AM
Don't forget he was operating with very linmited skill position resources, especially when Prothro broke his leg.

He was also playing on a team that was on probation for most of his career at bama and had severe scholarship cuts. To say they were short-handed would be a major understatement.

Also it was a team that had three different coaches during his career with three very different offensive philosophies. It went from a running team, to a passing team to a balanced offense.

Despite practially an all new offensive line this year that had major problems pass blocking he put up good numbers and played injury free.

kitt23
01-27-2006, 10:40 AM
It just may be that the Jets have to trade UP to get Cutler.

nah i doubt it, i think young and leinart will still be ahead.

Boomer
01-27-2006, 10:58 AM
nah i doubt it, i think young and leinart will still be ahead.

We shall see. Tennessee seem to prefer Cutler at this stage to Young, despite McNair's friendship with Vince.

Motion
01-27-2006, 11:03 AM
I think Vince will get his fair share of hype at the combine.

IdahoPhin
01-27-2006, 11:03 AM
Croyle is a solid mid 2nd round pick.

If Croyle turns out to be our target QB, do you see him being there when we pick in the second round?

Motion
01-27-2006, 11:07 AM
If Croyle turns out to be our target QB, do you see him being there when we pick in the second round?

That would be mid second round. Although theres a chance one of the QB needy teams that passed one in the 1st could snatch him ahead of us in the 2nd.

Boomer
01-27-2006, 11:14 AM
If Croyle turns out to be our target QB, do you see him being there when we pick in the second round?

Hmmm. Hard to tell. Probably.

Danny
01-27-2006, 11:18 AM
I'll say it again,he's not gonna be there for us at 51....we'll have to get him before by either trading up in the 2nd or moving down in the first and taking him there.I'm just as scare about his injuries as anyone else here but I'm tired of the back up QB's and we need a young guy for the future.If we don't get Croyle or Cutler then maybe Whitehurst or even Betts on day 2 but get a damn QB this year.

Ozzy rules!!

Motion
01-27-2006, 11:21 AM
I'll say it again,he's not gonna be there for us at 51....we'll have to get him before by either trading up in the 2nd or moving down in the first and taking him there.I'm just as scare about his injuries as anyone else here but I'm tired of the back up QB's and we need a young guy for the future.If we don't get Croyle or Cutler then maybe Whitehurst or even Betts on day 2 but get a damn QB this year.

Ozzy rules!!

I couldn't agree more. Funny thing is, i think all this drafting a QB debating is gonna be for nothing when we're completely blindsided by a big FA/trade deal for a QB by Saban before the draft. I can see it happening. :lol:

Hostile 17
01-27-2006, 11:25 AM
I couldn't agree more. Funny thing is, i think all this drafting a QB debating is gonna be for nothing when we're completely blindsided by a big FA/trade deal for a QB by Saban before the draft. I can see it happening. :lol:I know, there's something about the way Saban's been speaking this past week that leads one to believe that there's something's afoot that none of us are going to see coming...

BigDogsHunt
01-27-2006, 11:53 AM
We shall see. Tennessee seem to prefer Cutler at this stage to Young, despite McNair's friendship with Vince.

Boomer -

Interesting point. do you think Tennessee is starting to prefer Cutler strickly because of the face-to-face at Senior Bowl with Vince not there, etc?

I mean, do you think its out of sight out of mind? Or if Vince was there, they would still like Cutler's skill or potential over Vince??

Motion
01-27-2006, 11:56 AM
I know, there's something about the way Saban's been speaking this past week that leads one to believe that there's something's afoot that none of us are going to see coming...

I hear ya. I keep thinking back to those rumors about that 6th rounder that went with A.J. being a down payment for either Brees or Rivers.

Hostile 17
01-27-2006, 12:15 PM
I hear ya. I keep thinking back to those rumors about that 6th rounder that went with A.J. being a down payment for either Brees or Rivers.That is one direction, definitely. I'm also curious about the timing of Saban's word to Frerotte that, essentially, his services won't be required next year. As many have pointed out, you really don't say things like that unless you're already convinced something else is in the works. Somehow, Saban knows that there is an upcoming move for someone who is markedly better than his current starter.

Just who is it, though? Carr - apparently not if you listen to Gary Kubiak. Rivers - no chance if you believe the Chargers GM. Billy Volek? Patrick Ramsey? The kid from Arizona (shows how many Cardinals games I watched last year)?

In my opinion the Titans are the biggest wild cards in this year's draft. They really could go all three different ways in terms of the top 3 QBs.

Vince Young is a personal friend of Steve McNair and McNair has said he'd like to tutor him for a year or two in the pros, should the Titans draft Young.
Matt Leinart would rejoin Norm Chow, his old OC from college. This would make his transition into the NFL even more seamless than many think it will already be.
Jay Cutler has been coached by the Titans staff all week prior to the Senior Bowl and they are reportedly growing infatuated with him.
Tennessee could literally take any one of these guys and no one would be surprised. Who, though? And a strong case could be made that, with McNair playing another season or two and Volek a very capable backup (still under contract), that they could go with D'Brick at Left Tackle - clearly an area of great need.

How Tennessee goes could really affect the whole Top 10 in April's draft.

BigDogsHunt
01-27-2006, 12:23 PM
That is one direction, definitely. I'm also curious about the timing of Saban's word to Frerotte that, essentially, his services won't be required next year. As many have pointed out, you really don't say things like that unless you're already convinced something else is in the works. Somehow, Saban knows that there is an upcoming move for someone who is markedly better than his current starter.

Just who is it, though? Carr - apparently not if you listen to Gary Kubiak. Rivers - no chance if you believe the Chargers GM. Billy Volek? Patrick Ramsey? The kid from Arizona (shows how many Cardinals games I watched last year)?

In my opinion the Titans are the biggest wild cards in this year's draft. They really could go all three different ways in terms of the top 3 QBs.

Vince Young is a personal friend of Steve McNair and McNair has said he'd like to tutor him for a year or two in the pros, should the Titans draft Young.
Matt Leinart would rejoin Norm Chow, his old OC from college. This would make his transition into the NFL even more seamless than many think it will already be.
Jay Cutler has been coached by the Titans staff all week prior to the Senior Bowl and they are reportedly growing infatuated with him.
Tennessee could literally take any one of these guys and no one would be surprised. Who, though? And a strong case could be made that, with McNair playing another season or two and Volek a very capable backup (still under contract), that they could go with D'Brick at Left Tackle - clearly an area of great need.

How Tennessee goes could really affect the whole Top 10 in April's draft.

But that is all rumor....no proof, and both Saban and Frerrotte have said it never happened.

Motion
01-27-2006, 12:51 PM
But that is all rumor....no proof, and both Saban and Frerrotte have said it never happened.

You expect proof from Saban?

BigDogsHunt
01-27-2006, 01:01 PM
You expect proof from Saban?

I take Saban at his word.

But I dont take rumor, treat it as fact, and make predictions and theories off of it spin it as if it was gospel.

I would site it as a rumor and say if it was possibly true, then here is what I think....

thats all -

BlueFin
01-27-2006, 01:10 PM
I get the feeling the following will happen. Cutler will go right before we pick, we will then take Michael Huff, then take Croyle in the second round.
Thoughts?

My thought is that I really don't feel strongly about Brodie Croyle and I really doubt he is worth a mid-second rounder.

Motion
01-27-2006, 01:14 PM
I take Saban at his word.

But I dont take rumor, treat it as fact, and make predictions and theories off of it spin it as if it was gospel.

I would site it as a rumor and say if it was possibly true, then here is what I think....

thats all -

I hope your not suggesting I said anything of the sort. I didn't say anything should be taken as gospel. Not sure where you got all that.

UCFinfan86
01-27-2006, 04:24 PM
Watching the senior bowl practices i really liek Brodie Croyle, he seems to be knowledgable and hes soem good ability

Adam First
01-27-2006, 04:24 PM
When does the senior bowl actually take place?

dolfanben
01-27-2006, 04:26 PM
When does the senior bowl actually take place?

tomorrow.... on espn....4pm eastern

I also like brodie croyle... kiper just projected him in the 2nd rd.

Lappy
01-27-2006, 04:27 PM
wow the second round!!!

I really thought he was going to sneak into the 1st

GreenMachine
01-27-2006, 04:28 PM
tomorrow.... on espn....4pm eastern

I also like brodie croyle... kiper just projected him in the 2nd rd.
#12 from Alabama with a history of Knee problems...Where have I heard that before???

Adam First
01-27-2006, 04:28 PM
#12 from Alabama with a history of Knee problems...Where have I heard that before???

That's why I don't like Croyle. He has serious durability issues.

UCFinfan86
01-27-2006, 04:30 PM
#12 from Alabama with a history of Knee problems...Where have I heard that before???
i feel stupid, who is it?

dolfanben
01-27-2006, 04:32 PM
espn brought that up (injury issues)... i agree that his durability is a red flag, but his o-line was decimated at the end of the year this fall, and he held up... doensnt say much, but there is some hope on that front

Agua
01-27-2006, 04:33 PM
Joe Namath

HEDAZHELAS24
01-27-2006, 04:47 PM
im not trying to hate on any loyal dolfans, but please dont just listen to what mel kiper has to say. I agree he has great knowledge about the senior bowl and about who goes where but i think he is being unfair. shockley looked better during the season, looked better at the senior bowl practice, has better upside, has better size, is more accurate, and is dual threat. croyle is not bad but he does not compare to shock and if we thinking valur pick...croyle in the second or shock in the fourth?? come on even shock in the third would be a better pick

Motion
01-27-2006, 04:49 PM
#12 from Alabama with a history of Knee problems...Where have I heard that before???

Don't forget the shoulder.

PHINSfan
01-27-2006, 04:50 PM
i feel stupid, who is it?

He is refering to another Qb, from Alabama, who also had knee problems...Broadway Joe Namath

Motion
01-27-2006, 04:51 PM
im not trying to hate on any loyal dolfans, but please dont just listen to what mel kiper has to say. I agree he has great knowledge about the senior bowl and about who goes where but i think he is being unfair. shockley looked better during the season, looked better at the senior bowl practice, has better upside, has better size, is more accurate, and is dual threat. croyle is not bad but he does not compare to shock and if we thinking valur pick...croyle in the second or shock in the fourth?? come on even shock in the third would be a better pick

:shakeno: Don't be such a homer, Croyle is a much better pro prospect than Shockley. Shockley will be lucky to make it as a backup in the NFL.

phinphan11
01-27-2006, 04:52 PM
:shakeno: Don't be such a homer, Croyle is a much better pro prospect than Shockley. Shockley will be lucky to make it as a backup in the NFL.

Or maybe in another position?

Motion
01-27-2006, 04:53 PM
Or maybe in another position?

Very possible.

PHINSfan
01-27-2006, 05:00 PM
That's why I don't like Croyle. He has serious durability issues.

A good point, but you have to remember the advancement in medicine today. You can't compare what we have now vs. the med. technology of 30 years ago.
By the same token...guys now are so much bigger and stronger, that one hit from a Lb, or De could be the end of a fragile, injury prone Qb.
I have friends in Alabama who really love this guy, I do too...but im concerned about his durability. He's had surgery to both knees (2 ACL's) and the left shoulder injury. I know Saban has taken a chance this past draft on somebody with questionable knees in the 3rd rd. But Croyle wont be there in the 3rd...the way he has been playing, and the lack of good prospects have him moving up to the top of the second rd...and perhaps even the 1st rd.
Saban knows Croyle very well from his days in the SEC, so we'll see...

Philter25
01-27-2006, 05:03 PM
im not trying to hate on any loyal dolfans, but please dont just listen to what mel kiper has to say. I agree he has great knowledge about the senior bowl and about who goes where but i think he is being unfair. shockley looked better during the season, looked better at the senior bowl practice, has better upside, has better size, is more accurate, and is dual threat. croyle is not bad but he does not compare to shock and if we thinking valur pick...croyle in the second or shock in the fourth?? come on even shock in the third would be a better pick

homerism at its finest. :lol:

PHINSfan
01-27-2006, 05:12 PM
im not trying to hate on any loyal dolfans, but please dont just listen to what mel kiper has to say. I agree he has great knowledge about the senior bowl and about who goes where but i think he is being unfair. shockley looked better during the season, looked better at the senior bowl practice, has better upside, has better size, is more accurate, and is dual threat. croyle is not bad but he does not compare to shock and if we thinking valur pick...croyle in the second or shock in the fourth?? come on even shock in the third would be a better pick

Are you kidding?? is not even close....Shockley has not done good at all in the senior practices. And is not only Kiper, every person I've seen reporting on the
practices has the same thing to say. Croyle (except for the concerns about his durability) has all the tools needed to be a good starter in the NFL. Thats the reason most boards have him going in the early 2nd to late 1st RD.

HEDAZHELAS24
01-27-2006, 05:14 PM
no homer about it...did u watch the practice or the whole sec season...it would be pretty obvious if you did. senior bowl tomorrow and combine to follow. WATCH dont listen. ur being a homer too..hating on him bc he went to UGA.

FLORIDA SUCKS

Motion
01-27-2006, 05:25 PM
no homer about it...did u watch the practice or the whole sec season...it would be pretty obvious if you did. senior bowl tomorrow and combine to follow. WATCH dont listen. ur being a homer too..hating on him bc he went to UGA.

FLORIDA SUCKS

Haha What does that make Georgia then since Florida beat you? Fact is Croyle is a better prospect than Shockley. DJ did not practice well this week I watched every practice. I'm not being a homer, his college career is over I could care less where he went to school.

Florida owns Georgia

Dphins
01-27-2006, 05:30 PM
I heard he really improved his stock he was named captain by the players at the senior bowl and he has even more armstrength then Cutler. Any chance he will be the Phins franchise QB.

HEDAZHELAS24
01-27-2006, 05:34 PM
shockley did not play against florida, but good point ADMIN EDIT: We do not allow personal attacks/insults here..

Adam First
01-27-2006, 05:34 PM
It's a possibility, but he has durability issues.

Bartowboy
01-27-2006, 05:35 PM
I say if this guy has Senior Bowl he might move into the 1st round.

Bartowboy
01-27-2006, 05:36 PM
Has a good Senior Bowl.My mistake.

Scuba Steve 13
01-27-2006, 05:37 PM
Considering Mike shula's ties with the organization i think that this could be a real possibility.Maybe in the 2nd round if he last that long.His stock is steadily rising.go fins:dolphins:

dolfan72734me
01-27-2006, 05:37 PM
It is definately something to keep watching. I think him and Whitehurst will both improve their stock.