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dominizzo
10-27-2005, 12:12 AM
NFL ready or does he need time to groom like most QB's need, the way i see it I think he can excel in this league whom ever he is drafted by!!

Thoughts??

Dominizzo God Bless America and this BEloved Franchise Miami Dolphins

hunter5nc1
10-27-2005, 12:15 AM
I thought I just read this thread a few minutes ago.

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 12:16 AM
I thought I just read this thread a few minutes ago.

reallly im sorry??? i haven't seen it

Mr Yu
10-27-2005, 12:16 AM
NFL ready or does he need time to groom like most QB's need, the way i see it I think he can excel in this league whom ever he is drafted by!!

Thoughts??

Dominizzo God Bless America and this BEloved Franchise Miami Dolphins

- Call an audiable, throw in South Bend on 4th down with time running out , while behind and complete it? Stones

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 12:18 AM
???????? wooow im lost:confused:
- Call an audiable, throw in South Bend on 4th down with time running out , while behind and complete it? Stones

ether79
10-27-2005, 12:20 AM
???????? wooow im lost:confused:

The last play of the Notre Dame vs. USC game. When Leinhart called an audible with 7 seconds left and won the game with it.

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 12:23 AM
The last play of the Notre Dame vs. USC game. When Leinhart called an audible with 7 seconds left and won the game with it.

wooow U really think hes NFL ready though Ether?

ether79
10-27-2005, 12:27 AM
wooow U really think hes NFL ready though Ether?

Sure, just depends on the situation he is drafted into. No matter what though, he'll end being very good. That play demonstrated how much he is above every other QB to come out this next draft. Great leader, read defenses nicely, good arm, good size, and takes chances when he needs to.

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 12:28 AM
Sure, just depends on the situation he is drafted into. No matter what though, he'll end being very good. That play demonstrated how much he is above every other QB to come out this next draft. Great leader, read defenses nicely, good arm, good size, and takes chances when he needs to.

who would u compare him too ?? I see a Steve Young type back

ether79
10-27-2005, 12:29 AM
who would u compare him too ?? I see a Steve Young type back

Tom Brady, off the top of my head. He isn't mobile by any means like Young, but has good pocket presence.

djfresh47
10-27-2005, 12:36 AM
I don't think any rookie QB is NFL ready as great of a situation they're put in. IMO Matt Leinart is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning. I know people will question his arm strength and say he's playing with a great team but the guy is a winner. People search to find something wrong with Leinart but the guy has been a better college QB than Peyton, I know USC is stacked but they were also stacked with Carson Palmer and lost 2 games. I don't believe Saban would trade up and give up future draft picks for a player, but if their is a guy to do it for I believe it is Leinart.....Anyway CHICAGO WHITESOX 2005 WORLDSERIES CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 12:37 AM
I don't think any rookie QB is NFL ready as great of a situation they're put in. IMO Matt Leinart is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning. I know people will question his arm strength and say he's playing with a great team but the guy is a winner. People search to find something wrong with Leinart but the guy has been a better college QB than Peyton, I know USC is stacked but they were also stacked with Carson Palmer and lost 2 games. I don't believe Saban would trade up and give up future draft picks for a player, but if their is a guy to do it for I believe it is Leinart.....Anyway CHICAGO WHITESOX 2005 WORLDSERIES CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!

If Chicago wants to win 3 -4 series they have to keep that pitching intact

Gunner
10-27-2005, 12:37 AM
Tom Brady, off the top of my head. He isn't mobile by any means like Young, but has good pocket presence.

Agreed, much like a Brady ... I think he will struggle just like any rookie if he is thrown into the fire from day one. I'd rather he be eased into the roll of starter the way Marino was. Put him in late in games and get a feel for the speed of the NFL games. Then hopefully by the last 6 or 7 games of the season, he is not just treading water.

Ahhh, but then, will we even have a snow balls chance in hell of drafting him? I seriously doubt it right now ...

ether79
10-27-2005, 12:38 AM
I don't think any rookie QB is NFL ready as great of a situation they're put in. IMO Matt Leinart is the best QB prospect since Peyton Manning. I know people will question his arm strength and say he's playing with a great team but the guy is a winner. People search to find something wrong with Leinart but the guy has been a better college QB than Peyton, I know USC is stacked but they were also stacked with Carson Palmer and lost 2 games. I don't believe Saban would trade up and give up future draft picks for a player, but if their is a guy to do it for I believe it is Leinart.....Anyway CHICAGO WHITESOX 2005 WORLDSERIES CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!

I'd say Palmer was a better prospect but I'd put Leinart right behind him. I just liked Palmer's arm strength more, but that might be splitting hairs in the end.

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 12:41 AM
Agreed, much like a Brady ... I think he will struggle just like any rookie if he is thrown into the fire from day one. I'd rather he be eased into the roll of starter the way Marino was. Put him in late in games and get a feel for the speed of the NFL games. Then hopefully by the last 6 or 7 games of the season, he is not just treading water.

Ahhh, but then, will we even have a snow balls chance in hell of drafting him? I seriously doubt it right now ...

Gunner if The fish lose to Saints were in that Range For Lionheart Leinart

ether79
10-27-2005, 12:44 AM
I think he will struggle just like any rookie if he is thrown into the fire from day one. I'd rather he be eased into the roll of starter the way Marino was. Put him in late in games and get a feel for the speed of the NFL games. Then hopefully by the last 6 or 7 games of the season, he is not just treading water.

Completely agree.

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 12:47 AM
Completely agree.

Same here ether

Gunner
10-27-2005, 12:57 AM
Gunner if The fish lose to Saints were in that Range For Lionheart Leinart

Oh, I know we have the potential, but I think we have enough talent on this team to eek out a few more wins ... my guess we end up with a 5-11/6-10 kind of record. That would put us probably in the 5-8 range and more than likely at least two or three teams willing to take him. Barring having the #1 overall pick, I dont think we have a shot unless we trade up.

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 01:06 AM
Oh, I know we have the potential, but I think we have enough talent on this team to eek out a few more wins ... my guess we end up with a 5-11/6-10 kind of record. That would put us probably in the 5-8 range and more than likely at least two or three teams willing to take him. Barring having the #1 overall pick, I dont think we have a shot unless we trade up.

i think the teams that would need a qb IMO are THe BRowns, TExans (Depends on Carr) Dolphins, Bills ( loserman is no good) Arizona BAltimore and THE Raiderss

So who knows we can never know

Oraclepz
10-27-2005, 01:13 AM
he could be a good QB but ill rather take my chances elsewere

Roman529
10-27-2005, 01:13 AM
I think he is ready for the NFL. It depends what team he goes too and whether they need to start him right away or have him hold the clipboard for a year or two. He is a very accurate passer and puts great touch on his passes....I think he will be long gone when we draft but you never know??

Oraclepz
10-27-2005, 01:15 AM
yeah im thinkin he might slip on draft day.. im pretty sure reggie bush will be the top pick.. cause the 49 ers will take him first... but if houston selects first then they will take leinart

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 01:20 AM
yeah im thinkin he might slip on draft day.. im pretty sure reggie bush will be the top pick.. cause the 49 ers will take him first... but if houston selects first then they will take leinart

Houston can go 3 ways my friend

Leinart(Depends on Carr)
THe BRICK( No OLine what so ever)
Reggie Bush(Playmaker that Texans need and Davis is not the answer Dominick)

Marino2234
10-27-2005, 01:30 AM
I say texans go DBRICK, they want a LT so badly.remember the trade they almost did with the rams for Pace. i also say they keep carr around

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 01:31 AM
I say texans go DBRICK, they want a LT so badly.remember the trade they almost did with the rams for Pace. i also say they keep carr around

could be verrry true

srdnaty
10-27-2005, 01:37 AM
sure why not when you have gus. h3ll everyone is. gimme a helmet.

SMadison29
10-27-2005, 01:47 AM
It's tough to compare him to anyone really. He's smart like Brady but he has an arm like McNown. Chad Pennington with a stronger arm maybe. That's the best comparison I can make.

texasPHINSfan
10-27-2005, 02:08 AM
Houston can go 3 ways my friend

Leinart(Depends on Carr)
THe BRICK( No OLine what so ever)
Reggie Bush(Playmaker that Texans need and Davis is not the answer Dominick)

yes, yes, and NO.

dom is the ONLY playmaker on the texans... he ain't going anywhere and they sure as hell won't upgrade HIS position. Texans either go D-Brick or Leinart.

SMadison29
10-27-2005, 02:12 AM
dom is the ONLY playmaker on the texans... he ain't going anywhere and they sure as hell won't upgrade HIS position. Texans either go D-Brick or Leinart.

Early word is that Casserly is debating on buying back 2 or 3 years of Carr's contract so Leinart may be out. Though I hope that's not the case because I wouldn't mind having Carr next year.

texasPHINSfan
10-27-2005, 02:58 AM
Early word is that Casserly is debating on buying back 2 or 3 years of Carr's contract so Leinart may be out. Though I hope that's not the case because I wouldn't mind having Carr next year.
except Carr is the Cedric Benson of QB's....

you want a guy that is THAT beat up? seriously, he's had more sacks in 4 years than Marino had in 8. shortened NFL lifespan if you ask me... but if he's available and cheap (probably and definitely not), then i dunno...

Maynard the Hammer
10-27-2005, 03:08 AM
right now carr has a bit higher rating and completing at 59.9%. 5td, 5ints he has about 70 less throws though

dominizzo
10-27-2005, 03:10 AM
right now carr has a bit higher rating and completing at 59.9%. 5td, 5ints he has about 70 less throws though

poor guy he always gets sacked

DonShula84
10-27-2005, 07:36 PM
I think Leinart will make a good pro, he wont be as good as Palmer though. I dont want Leinart though because Ive spent the last few years completely hating him so it would be hard to root for the guy.

kastofsna120
10-28-2005, 01:10 AM
It's tough to compare him to anyone really. He's smart like Brady but he has an arm like McNown. Chad Pennington with a stronger arm maybe. That's the best comparison I can make.
i'll take a smart QB over a gunslinger anyday

it's no coincidence that the best and most clutch QBs are often considered average physically. unitas invented the 2-minute drill for god's sake, and look at montana. and now there's brady. the future is leinart. whoever drafts leinart will be winning a super bowl in a few years

SMadison29
10-28-2005, 01:28 AM
I prefer the smart gunslinger. Ala Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, John Elway...

kastofsna120
10-28-2005, 01:33 AM
I prefer the smart gunslinger. Ala Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, John Elway...
yeah but i'd prefer to have a million dollars. those guys are pretty rare. and i wouldn't put palmer in there

SMadison29
10-28-2005, 01:39 AM
Why not? Not enough service time? Tying the record with 9 consecutive games with 100+ QB rating has to prove his smarts.

kastofsna120
10-28-2005, 01:59 AM
and he's failed against good defenses. a smart QB will outsmart a defense (see: unitas, montana, brady)

Philter25
10-28-2005, 12:12 PM
and he's failed against good defenses. a smart QB will outsmart a defense (see: unitas, montana, brady)

You can make that case against Peyton then. Last year, the Pats had his number, this year, the first 3 games they played everyone had his number.

Therefore he has failed against good defenses.

He is still the best QB in the NFL though.

I would keep Palmer in there. The guy is going to be a monster in the NFL.

kastofsna120
10-28-2005, 12:40 PM
You can make that case against Peyton then. Last year, the Pats had his number, this year, the first 3 games they played everyone had his number.

Therefore he has failed against good defenses.

He is still the best QB in the NFL though.

I would keep Palmer in there. The guy is going to be a monster in the NFL.
that's why i'd take brady over manning

SMadison29
10-29-2005, 12:01 AM
and he's failed against good defenses. a smart QB will outsmart a defense (see: unitas, montana, brady)

He's failed against good defenses :shakeno:

In his 9 game streak of a rating over 100+ includes games vs New England & Baltimore last year & vs Chicago & Jacksonville this year. That's 4 of 9 vs top notch D's. He belongs on that list.

waypoint
11-11-2005, 02:20 PM
ok, I have read alot of posts on here from people either praising or bashing leinert and almost NONE of them are qualified enough to even be giving an opinion. Being a BIG SC fan as well as a huge fin fan I think I have the ability to give a very accurate and fair review of leinert. Unlike alot of the people on the board, I havent just seen a handful of matt's games.... I have seen every single one.... above that I also saw him 3 games in high school.... above even that I have been an SC fan for 25 years, and therefore have also seen all but 2 of carson palmer's games,etc etc. ... First off I would like to say ANYONE who is comparing leinert to the likes of andre ware, josh huepel, or ken dorsey have no idea what they are talking about. They either havent seen matt play more than a game or two or they are making statements with absolutely no foundation. I have seen alot of posts asking for a comparison of carson palmer to matt leinert, so here it goes...

ARM STRENGTH- Carson has and has always had one of the finest arms I have seen. maybe not dan marino or warren moon, but in todays NFL standards he has a rifle. Matt leinert doesnt have that kind of arm, no news flash there but he IS NOT josh huepel either. Matt wont be throwing brett favre type rifles to his recievers in themid range passing game, he simply doesnt have that kind of ability. This being said, matt still has a good arm... matt actually EXCELS at throwing the ball downfield. His lack of a marino type arm has never kept him from throw the ball deep down the field. I think he has every bit the arm strength of a alex smith, brian griese, tom brady or even (gasp!) a peyton manning. If everyone remembers correctly, one of the biggest knocks on peyton coming out to the NFL was his arm strength.... and I see leinert evaluated in a simliar way. Peyton wasnt known for the zip he put on the ball either, but it never hindered him now or then on throwing the ball deep down the field. Matt is the same way, he doesnt have great zip but he can deliver a big throw down the field.....

ACCURACY- Carson was a VERY streaky QB at USC when it came to accuracy. SC fans and coaches always expected alot of carson, even as a freshman but he was prone to going through extended periods of inaccuracy right up until midway through his senior year. It took carson awhile to get get the idea of putting the right kind of "touch" on certain throws. Even now when I watch carson I see a couple throws that he still struggles with his touch on. As for Leinert, in my book, he is the king of the touch thrown. What he does so well, is put the ball where he only gives his reciever a chance to catch it. He is also a master at being able to throw the ball to places where he can hit his reciever in stride, which in turn gives the WR a chance to make plays down the field after the catch. Matt is simply the best I have ever seen at this at USC or almost anywhere else... he is the most accurate QB at his age I have probably ever seen ....

INTELLIGENCE/DECISION MAKING- This was the biggest downfall for carson at USC as almost any true trojan fan will tell you. Carson could make the big play and then on the next play make a throwing a decision that would almost make you choke on your bratwurst. It was something as a fan, that would always be in the back of your mind in any SC game with carson at QB. there would be almost no doubt he was gonna thrown for close to 300 yeard with a couple TD'S (especially his jr and sr years) but when was bad decision carson going to rear its ugly head.... we almost would wait for it every game. Now to leinert...I can say this is one problem we have never had. Most of matt's INT's come from tipped or dropped balls.... he rarely ever makes a bad decision on where to throw the football. Part of this is because he has alot of playmakers around him, but part of it is because he simply a very quick and smart decision maker. This is one spot where Matt is simply head and shoulders above carson. Matt also is a great student of the game and has the ability to call his own plays at the line. He is VERY peyton-esk at the line of scrimmage, he can audible to the right play and knows how to read a defense.... IMO this is matt's greatest future strength, he will be able to be a great field general and knows what plays to call to beat the defensive formation.

POCKET PRESENCE/SCRAMBLING- ok I am running out of time so I am combining this and making it a rather quick analysis. Carson, while not a classic scrambler was excellent at buying time in the pocket, making the first rusher miss and zipping the ball around the field. MANY MANY a yard was made this way with carson at SC. He would buy his WR's a little extra time to get open and fire away. Matt is NOT very fleet of foot and I think it will show some early in his NFL career while he catches up to the speed of the game. But matt does a great job of staying in the pocket, and delivering the ball with the rush in his face. Simply MATT makes some very very gutsy throws and take some big hits for it.... good news is the matt is a VERY big QB and can absorb some big hits... although I do worry he may get hurt standing in against the rush in the NFL every play.

In short.... I like Leinert more as a player than palmer... I think Matt has the ability to be a great game manager ala tom brady and win football games in many ways....but despite what some believe, he DOES have the ability to take over a game here and there and simply pass his way to victory. Alot has been said about the talent around matt but I will leave you with this.... how many other college QB's have won with almost exclusively younger playmakers around him??? leinert has turned freshman like mike williams and dwayne jarrett into stars as freshmen and sophmores, NOT the other way around.... who was the last QB to basically turn freshman WR to superstars??? and believe me, without leinert those guys never would have made a name for themselves that early...


jim

Maybe Memories
11-11-2005, 02:27 PM
ughh... thats nice but i dont think we will have a shot for him...

kastofsna120
11-11-2005, 02:27 PM
yeah but.....he got a roommate! and he's immature because he decided to stick around for his senior season! he's taking a dancing class! HE'LL BE A BUST!

unifiedtheory
11-11-2005, 02:28 PM
yeah but.....he got a roommate! and he's immature because he decided to stick around for his senior season! he's taking a dancing class! HE'LL BE A BUST!

:roflmao:

dolphinfan2k5
11-11-2005, 02:29 PM
Nice post, too bad we will have to trade 2 first round picks to get him if we do.

SQuinn17
11-11-2005, 02:31 PM
just cause youre a fan doesnt mean u know everything about the guy

unifiedtheory
11-11-2005, 02:32 PM
Nice post, too bad we will have to trade 2 first round picks to get him if we do.

If it would only cost us our first's in the '06 and '07 drafts I would do it everyday of the week.

I think we'd have to sweeten the pot though...I'm sure at least one more first day pick would be involved...maybe two of them.

kastofsna120
11-11-2005, 02:33 PM
give them 2 firsts and ricky williams

unifiedtheory
11-11-2005, 02:34 PM
if it's san fran, give them 2 firsts and ricky williams

I'd do it.

calphin
11-11-2005, 02:36 PM
give them 2 firsts and ricky williams








Hell no!

CrunchTime
11-11-2005, 02:37 PM
yeah but.....he got a roommate! and he's immature because he decided to stick around for his senior season! he's taking a dancing class! HE'LL BE A BUST!

Dancing is not good for RBs but its a pretty good skill to have if you want to avoid a rush.:tongue: .

I agree that accuracy and field IQ are more important than arm strength.What about his release ? I hear that it is average.

kastofsna120
11-11-2005, 02:43 PM
Dancing is not good for RBs but its a pretty good skill to have if you want to avoid a rush.:tongue: .

I agree that accuracy and field IQ are more important than arm strength.What about his release ? I hear that it is average.
his release is good. it's a nice overhand motion, although it is a bit slow sometimes, although not on the deep ball, where the ball gets out fairly quick. his arm strength is only questioned because everything else is so good about him. seriously

BrazForPhins
11-11-2005, 02:50 PM
just cause youre a fan doesnt mean u know everything about the guy

c'mon, he's just giving his insight about leinart...it's better to have posters who share their opinions (not stupid ones) than posters that just complains.

burger13
11-11-2005, 02:50 PM
Such a big fan......and he can't even spell Leinart.

SF Dolphin Fan
11-11-2005, 02:51 PM
Nice analysis. I agree that Leinart has amazing touch and puts the ball in the best place for his wr to get it. Good point also about the young receivers.

To me, the whole arm strength thing is overrated. Yes, in the best of all worlds you'd love to have a qb with Marino's arm strength and Vick's running ability. But, to me the most important quality for a quarterback is decision making and that's what I like best about Leinart. He is not an elite athlete, but I think he can be an elite qb like a Tom Brady or a Peyton Manning.

SF Dolphin Fan
11-11-2005, 02:52 PM
If it would only cost us our first's in the '06 and '07 drafts I would do it everyday of the week.

I think we'd have to sweeten the pot though...I'm sure at least one more first day pick would be involved...maybe two of them.

I agree. I'd give up two #1's in a heartbeat, but it might take more with all the qb hungry teams likely to pick ahead of Miami. I hope a few of the juniors come out.

BrazForPhins
11-11-2005, 02:53 PM
just cause youre a fan doesnt mean u know everything about the guy

c'mon, he's just giving his insight about leinart...it's better to have posters who share their opinions (not stupid ones) than posters that just complain.

edit: ops, double

Regan21286
11-11-2005, 02:54 PM
I'm a UCLA Bruin and as much as I hate the USC condom brands, err Trojans, I still think Leinart is a darn good QB who I'd love to see at the helm of the Miami Dolphins. That's like a Fins fan praising Tom Brady. He reminds me a lot of Peyton Manning, who also doesn't have a lot of arm strength but just knows how to play and lead.

LIQUID24
11-11-2005, 03:00 PM
Good post. I too watch USC every week, so I'll add a couple things. Leinart is already mentally better than most NFL QB's. He simply "gets it". Watch his head, if his first target isn't open, he progresses through his reads VERY quickly, until he finds the open guy. Most young QB's (even the good ones) tend to lock on to one or two targets, and if they're covered, they take off and run. Not Leinart.

If I had to pick a weakness, it's that he is sometimes too much of a touch passer. It's not because he can't put more zip on it, but he sometimes chooses to put more air under it than necesssary. That can lead to the CB breaking up the pass. I've seen this happen a couple times. It's not a huge gripe though. I'm sure he'll learn he can't always do that in the NFL.

Other than that, he's an excellent QB.

TooDrkPark
11-11-2005, 03:25 PM
ok, I have read alot of posts on here from people either praising or bashing leinert and almost NONE of them are qualified enough to even be giving an opinion. Being a BIG SC fan as well as a huge fin fan I think I have the ability to give a very accurate and fair review of leinert.


So being a BIG SC fan, how are you going to give a FAIR opinion. Your opinions are already biased. Big fans of College Football can give a FAIR opinion since we look at all the QB's that are playing and not just focusing on ONE. Plus, Leinert is a good QB on the team, BUT I don't think he has what it takes to be a good QB in the NFL. He has great talent around him to make him look as a good QB in the college ranks.

jlfin
11-11-2005, 03:27 PM
yeah but.....he got a roommate! and he's immature because he decided to stick around for his senior season! he's taking a dancing class! HE'LL BE A BUST!

He doesn't appear to be overly ambitious or very hungry to get to the next level. That concerns me, especially, when considering what a team will have to invest in him.

finfan75
11-11-2005, 03:31 PM
ok, I have read alot of posts on here from people either praising or bashing leinert and almost NONE of them are qualified enough to even be giving an opinion. Being a BIG SC fan as well as a huge fin fan I think I have the ability to give a very accurate and fair review of leinert. Unlike alot of the people on the board, I havent just seen a handful of matt's games.... I have seen every single one.... above that I also saw him 3 games in high school.... above even that I have been an SC fan for 25 years, and therefore have also seen all but 2 of carson palmer's games,etc etc. ... First off I would like to say ANYONE who is comparing leinert to the likes of andre ware, josh huepel, or ken dorsey have no idea what they are talking about. They either havent seen matt play more than a game or two or they are making statements with absolutely no foundation. I have seen alot of posts asking for a comparison of carson palmer to matt leinert, so here it goes...

ARM STRENGTH- Carson has and has always had one of the finest arms I have seen. maybe not dan marino or warren moon, but in todays NFL standards he has a rifle. Matt leinert doesnt have that kind of arm, no news flash there but he IS NOT josh huepel either. Matt wont be throwing brett favre type rifles to his recievers in themid range passing game, he simply doesnt have that kind of ability. This being said, matt still has a good arm... matt actually EXCELS at throwing the ball downfield. His lack of a marino type arm has never kept him from throw the ball deep down the field. I think he has every bit the arm strength of a alex smith, brian griese, tom brady or even (gasp!) a peyton manning. If everyone remembers correctly, one of the biggest knocks on peyton coming out to the NFL was his arm strength.... and I see leinert evaluated in a simliar way. Peyton wasnt known for the zip he put on the ball either, but it never hindered him now or then on throwing the ball deep down the field. Matt is the same way, he doesnt have great zip but he can deliver a big throw down the field.....

ACCURACY- Carson was a VERY streaky QB at USC when it came to accuracy. SC fans and coaches always expected alot of carson, even as a freshman but he was prone to going through extended periods of inaccuracy right up until midway through his senior year. It took carson awhile to get get the idea of putting the right kind of "touch" on certain throws. Even now when I watch carson I see a couple throws that he still struggles with his touch on. As for Leinert, in my book, he is the king of the touch thrown. What he does so well, is put the ball where he only gives his reciever a chance to catch it. He is also a master at being able to throw the ball to places where he can hit his reciever in stride, which in turn gives the WR a chance to make plays down the field after the catch. Matt is simply the best I have ever seen at this at USC or almost anywhere else... he is the most accurate QB at his age I have probably ever seen ....

INTELLIGENCE/DECISION MAKING- This was the biggest downfall for carson at USC as almost any true trojan fan will tell you. Carson could make the big play and then on the next play make a throwing a decision that would almost make you choke on your bratwurst. It was something as a fan, that would always be in the back of your mind in any SC game with carson at QB. there would be almost no doubt he was gonna thrown for close to 300 yeard with a couple TD'S (especially his jr and sr years) but when was bad decision carson going to rear its ugly head.... we almost would wait for it every game. Now to leinert...I can say this is one problem we have never had. Most of matt's INT's come from tipped or dropped balls.... he rarely ever makes a bad decision on where to throw the football. Part of this is because he has alot of playmakers around him, but part of it is because he simply a very quick and smart decision maker. This is one spot where Matt is simply head and shoulders above carson. Matt also is a great student of the game and has the ability to call his own plays at the line. He is VERY peyton-esk at the line of scrimmage, he can audible to the right play and knows how to read a defense.... IMO this is matt's greatest future strength, he will be able to be a great field general and knows what plays to call to beat the defensive formation.

POCKET PRESENCE/SCRAMBLING- ok I am running out of time so I am combining this and making it a rather quick analysis. Carson, while not a classic scrambler was excellent at buying time in the pocket, making the first rusher miss and zipping the ball around the field. MANY MANY a yard was made this way with carson at SC. He would buy his WR's a little extra time to get open and fire away. Matt is NOT very fleet of foot and I think it will show some early in his NFL career while he catches up to the speed of the game. But matt does a great job of staying in the pocket, and delivering the ball with the rush in his face. Simply MATT makes some very very gutsy throws and take some big hits for it.... good news is the matt is a VERY big QB and can absorb some big hits... although I do worry he may get hurt standing in against the rush in the NFL every play.

In short.... I like Leinert more as a player than palmer... I think Matt has the ability to be a great game manager ala tom brady and win football games in many ways....but despite what some believe, he DOES have the ability to take over a game here and there and simply pass his way to victory. Alot has been said about the talent around matt but I will leave you with this.... how many other college QB's have won with almost exclusively younger playmakers around him??? leinert has turned freshman like mike williams and dwayne jarrett into stars as freshmen and sophmores, NOT the other way around.... who was the last QB to basically turn freshman WR to superstars??? and believe me, without leinert those guys never would have made a name for themselves that early...


jim


Nick Lachey in da house? :rofl:

ckparrothead
11-11-2005, 03:34 PM
The thing about arm strength in the NFL is it is a make or break attribute. A great deal of arm strength does not necessarily make a QB good...but a big lack of arm strength can most definitely make a QB bad.

So what you look for generally is a QB's arsenal of weapons, and his decision-making record in choosing between those weapons. Some QBs have such good armstrength that they use that alone as a weapon on a lot of plays, and it is a very effective one. A guy with a huge cannon on his shoulders will almost always command the respect of every defender on the field, regardless of what else is going on. A guy with a wimpy arm will most often draw the DISrespect of the defenders on the field. Look at how people talk about Chad Pennington despite him probably being the most accurate passer in the league. Some other QBs use accuracy or pocket presence as a weapon. Marino use to frustrate the HECK out of defensive linemen, especially Bruce Smith, because he would ALWAYS fire that ball off before Bruce got to him. It's demoralizing for a DL. DBs will get frustrated as all heck if your guy is so accurate that even keeping tight coverage with your man doesn't matter because the QB is putting the ball where only the receiver can get it.

In offense, often half the battle is won with threats, rather than actual production. If your arm is so good that it commands the respect of everyone on the field, you'll notice safeties backing up a little bit more to cover deep, you'll notice corners playing more edgy against the WRs and looking back at the QB more to get a better chance at seeing the pass coming...etc. If you have great pocket presence and always get the ball out before the sack comes, you'll see all sorts of strange behaviors from the DL as they get more desperate. And, with the accuracy issue, much like the armstrength, you'll see DBs gamble a little bit more trying to get a jump on the ball.

Anyway, back to armstrength, it is folly to single out any one attribute and say that it is the single most important issue...because no QB makes it with just armstrength and no accuracy, no QB makes it with just accuracy and no armstrength, nobody makes it without good decision making, and awful pocket presence can torpedo an otherwise good QB's career (ask Rob Johnson). But, that said, armstrength, IMO, gets you the most bang for your buck in terms of sacrificing some of the other attributes for it, and the other way around. If you have a weak arm for an NFL starter, you need to be so insanely accurate and make such insanely good decisions to end up a good QB, that most QBs aren't able to sustain good careers that way.

Let's look at Drew Brees as an example. Biggest knock on him coming out was not height. He would have been drafted higher if it was just height. It was armstrength, which for an NFL starter was marginal to say the least. For I believe three years, he wallows away...not doing anything special. Then, he sees a training specialist, who modifies his diet, modifies his training regiment, and actually modifies his throwing motion. Whatever voodoo he did, I don't claim to know how it worked, all I know is the results: which were that, all the sudden, he has like 10% more velocity on his throws...timed by Schottenheimer himself. Bam, Drew Brees is a freaking pro bowler. Just like that. A guy who made his way before on mobility, decision-making, game management, and accuracy struggled in the NFL because of his height and armstrength. He improves the armstrength, and everything else clicks. Now, you go ahead and watch him play. His arm is not marginal at all. In the EA Sports long throw competition he actually threw further than I believe Joey Harrington and Ben Roethlisberger.

Spray Mucus
11-11-2005, 03:35 PM
give them 2 firsts and ricky williams

So after all is said and done we would have given up 4 first round picks for Matt.

finfan75
11-11-2005, 03:42 PM
Lets just pick a QB in every round except the 1st (CB or LT or WR). Take the 2 with the most promise and see how it goes from there.

ckparrothead
11-11-2005, 03:43 PM
Logically speaking, btw, as NFL defensive backs and linebackers continue to get faster than they've ever been in NFL history (which is true), the field is getting smaller. If the field is getting smaller, that means that armstrength is evolving into a more and more important issue as NFL defenses get faster and faster and are able to cover more and more ground while the ball is in the air. The guys who throw passes that take the least amount of time to get there (strong arms), are surviving, and the guys who can't do that are not.

I firmly believe that Joe Montana would stand a good chance at being a marginal QB in today's NFL.

Talos
11-11-2005, 03:45 PM
Lets just pick a QB in every round except the 1st (CB or LT or WR). Take the 2 with the most promise and see how it goes from there.

:roflmao:

kastofsna120
11-11-2005, 04:00 PM
So after all is said and done we would have given up 4 first round picks for Matt.
sounds good to me

fishypete
11-11-2005, 04:07 PM
Anything or anyone that has been Pete Carroll....I wouldn't want for the Dolphins.

adamprez2003
11-11-2005, 04:10 PM
thx for the write up. well thought out

waypoint
11-11-2005, 04:18 PM
So being a BIG SC fan, how are you going to give a FAIR opinion. Your opinions are already biased. Big fans of College Football can give a FAIR opinion since we look at all the QB's that are playing and not just focusing on ONE. Plus, Leinert is a good QB on the team, BUT I don't think he has what it takes to be a good QB in the NFL. He has great talent around him to make him look as a good QB in the college ranks.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I am giving a fair opinion by comparing him to a former #1 pick from SC who is now a pro bowl QB in the NFL...that is HOW.... now if I came on here talkin this or that about either of those guys WITHOUT knocking any part of there game or critizing them, THEN I would be bias and without a fair opinion. I gave a complete profile, knocking BOTH SC QB's weaknesses and giving both credit in parts of there game that are strengths... I would say that makes it a very fair comparison... I didnt come on here praising rodney peete or anything, I came on here giving a fair analysis after seeing both play almost every game..... I am more than capable of giving an unbias opinion for teams I root for, would you like one for the fins QB position too??? yea, I didnt think so .... I am just tired of seeing all these people who have never even seen the guy play trying to make comparisons to josh heupel or whomever else....

ether79
11-11-2005, 04:18 PM
Anything or anyone that has been Pete Carroll....I wouldn't want for the Dolphins.

Sure I bet you wouldn't take Carson Palmer.:rolleyes:

fishypete
11-11-2005, 04:23 PM
Sure I bet you wouldn't take Carson Palmer.:rolleyes:

No...I rather Brady Quinn...if he comes out....Vince Young...if comes out...if not I'll wait till next year...and play Lemon or Sage.

waypoint
11-11-2005, 04:23 PM
Such a big fan......and he can't even spell Leinart.<<<<<<<<<

I am a big fan of USC not leinart in general, although I would love to see him in a fins uniform. Not to mention, USC doesnt carry names on the back of the jersey's so it isnt like I am staring at the correct spelling of his name all the time. I am also a big fan of alot of things I cant spell, maybe that makes me illiterate but doesnt say a damn thing about my opinion on those things... thanx for the lesson teach ...

DolfanTom
11-11-2005, 04:25 PM
I'd rather trade for Rivers, but I would also be excited of Lienart was our starting QB next September.

I'm sure Saban and Mueller would do their homework before trading beaucoup picks for either of these guys. If they pull the trigger, i'd get behind the deal!

Roman529
11-11-2005, 04:35 PM
I think when it comes to Leinart we have to play the Price is Right game....if we can get him without bankrupting our cap and future draft picks than go for it.....Matt would be a huge upgrade over Gus. Matt doesn't have a cannon arm but he is very accurate, has great touch on his throws and is smart....kind of like a left handed Tom Brady.....he is not the most mobile QB around but so what?....I would rather have a great pocket passer than a guy running around like Michael Vick who is always turning it over and getting hurt.

mbsinmisc
11-11-2005, 05:50 PM
waypoint... dont let some posters get you down. the level of vitrol on this website have driven many a poster elsewhere. I like your analysis, I am not a USC fan but I think Leinart has something special. I would not trade the farm for any player, but Ricky and a 1st would be reasonable.

Megatron
11-11-2005, 06:01 PM
Thanks for a well thought out write up. As someone who doesn't watch college ball at all I need this info to even begin to know anything about college players.:up:

unifiedtheory
11-11-2005, 06:03 PM
No...I rather Brady Quinn...if he comes out....Vince Young...if comes out...if not I'll wait till next year...and play Lemon or Sage.

You would take Brady Quinn or VINCE YOUNG over Carson Palmer?!?! That could be the most rediculous thing I've read on this board.

I think you should go back to thinking about starting Zach at safety...

aerokev
11-11-2005, 06:03 PM
leinert is not worth 2 first round picks, and is definetly worth trading up for when either drew brees or david carr can be signed without giving up picks. brady quinn if he comes out early is another story.

aerokev
11-11-2005, 06:05 PM
You would take Brady Quinn or VINCE YOUNG over Carson Palmer?!?! That could be the most rediculous thing I've read on this board.

I think you should go back to thinking about starting Zach at safety...

i think palmers stats are skewed because of the competition cincinnati has played. against the only real team he looked lost

TooDrkPark
11-11-2005, 06:08 PM
Such a big fan......and he can't even spell Leinart.<<<<<<<<<

I am a big fan of USC not leinart in general, although I would love to see him in a fins uniform. Not to mention, USC doesnt carry names on the back of the jersey's so it isnt like I am staring at the correct spelling of his name all the time. I am also a big fan of alot of things I cant spell, maybe that makes me illiterate but doesnt say a damn thing about my opinion on those things... thanx for the lesson teach ...


Never said I was a fan of Leinart or Leinert...who cares about spelling..you knew whom I was referring to....

TooDrkPark
11-11-2005, 06:09 PM
waypoint... dont let some posters get you down. the level of vitrol on this website have driven many a poster elsewhere. I like your analysis, I am not a USC fan but I think Leinart has something special. I would not trade the farm for any player, but Ricky and a 1st would be reasonable.

Ricky AND a 1st???? now, that's crazy talk....

RAS25
11-11-2005, 06:10 PM
No...I rather Brady Quinn...if he comes out....Vince Young...if comes out...if not I'll wait till next year...and play Lemon or Sage.

WOW dude you would rather have one of those QBs who we dont even know if they would be good in the pros over palmer who is having a mvp season....thats insane dude

unifiedtheory
11-11-2005, 06:11 PM
i think palmers stats are skewed because of the competition cincinnati has played. against the only real team he looked lost

The guy is still a young Q.B.

I was commenting on the fact someone said they'd take Brady Quinn (a guy who has had less then one good year of college) and Vince Young (who is not even a good NFL Q.B. prospect and terribly overrated) over a guy, Palmer, who'll be a Pro Bowler.

unifiedtheory
11-11-2005, 06:13 PM
Ricky AND a 1st???? now, that's crazy talk....

Yes it is crazy talk....because it would take more then that to get Leinart.

It was said earlier and I agreed with it....Ricky and 2 first rounders could do the trick....and I'd do it everyday of the week.

Leinart is a great college Q.B. who has a chance to be a great professional Q.B. If we have a shot at him we should go for it.

Megatron
11-11-2005, 06:14 PM
Yes it is crazy talk....because it would take more then that to get Leinart.

It was said earlier and I agreed with it....Ricky and 2 first rounders could do the trick....and I'd do it everyday of the week.

Leinart is a great college Q.B. who has a chance to be a great professional Q.B. If we have a shot at him we should go for it. But if he's a bust it would screw us for years to come based on this deal.

Coral Reefer
11-11-2005, 06:14 PM
ok, I have read alot of posts on here from people either praising or bashing leinert and almost NONE of them are qualified enough to even be giving an opinion. Being a BIG SC fan as well as a huge fin fan I think I have the ability to give a very accurate and fair review of leinert. Unlike alot of the people on the board, I havent just seen a handful of matt's games.... I have seen every single one.... above that I also saw him 3 games in high school.... above even that I have been an SC fan for 25 years, and therefore have also seen all but 2 of carson palmer's games,etc etc. ... First off I would like to say ANYONE who is comparing leinert to the likes of andre ware, josh huepel, or ken dorsey have no idea what they are talking about. They either havent seen matt play more than a game or two or they are making statements with absolutely no foundation. I have seen alot of posts asking for a comparison of carson palmer to matt leinert, so here it goes...

ARM STRENGTH- Carson has and has always had one of the finest arms I have seen. maybe not dan marino or warren moon, but in todays NFL standards he has a rifle. Matt leinert doesnt have that kind of arm, no news flash there but he IS NOT josh huepel either. Matt wont be throwing brett favre type rifles to his recievers in themid range passing game, he simply doesnt have that kind of ability. This being said, matt still has a good arm... matt actually EXCELS at throwing the ball downfield. His lack of a marino type arm has never kept him from throw the ball deep down the field. I think he has every bit the arm strength of a alex smith, brian griese, tom brady or even (gasp!) a peyton manning. If everyone remembers correctly, one of the biggest knocks on peyton coming out to the NFL was his arm strength.... and I see leinert evaluated in a simliar way. Peyton wasnt known for the zip he put on the ball either, but it never hindered him now or then on throwing the ball deep down the field. Matt is the same way, he doesnt have great zip but he can deliver a big throw down the field.....

ACCURACY- Carson was a VERY streaky QB at USC when it came to accuracy. SC fans and coaches always expected alot of carson, even as a freshman but he was prone to going through extended periods of inaccuracy right up until midway through his senior year. It took carson awhile to get get the idea of putting the right kind of "touch" on certain throws. Even now when I watch carson I see a couple throws that he still struggles with his touch on. As for Leinert, in my book, he is the king of the touch thrown. What he does so well, is put the ball where he only gives his reciever a chance to catch it. He is also a master at being able to throw the ball to places where he can hit his reciever in stride, which in turn gives the WR a chance to make plays down the field after the catch. Matt is simply the best I have ever seen at this at USC or almost anywhere else... he is the most accurate QB at his age I have probably ever seen ....

INTELLIGENCE/DECISION MAKING- This was the biggest downfall for carson at USC as almost any true trojan fan will tell you. Carson could make the big play and then on the next play make a throwing a decision that would almost make you choke on your bratwurst. It was something as a fan, that would always be in the back of your mind in any SC game with carson at QB. there would be almost no doubt he was gonna thrown for close to 300 yeard with a couple TD'S (especially his jr and sr years) but when was bad decision carson going to rear its ugly head.... we almost would wait for it every game. Now to leinert...I can say this is one problem we have never had. Most of matt's INT's come from tipped or dropped balls.... he rarely ever makes a bad decision on where to throw the football. Part of this is because he has alot of playmakers around him, but part of it is because he simply a very quick and smart decision maker. This is one spot where Matt is simply head and shoulders above carson. Matt also is a great student of the game and has the ability to call his own plays at the line. He is VERY peyton-esk at the line of scrimmage, he can audible to the right play and knows how to read a defense.... IMO this is matt's greatest future strength, he will be able to be a great field general and knows what plays to call to beat the defensive formation.

POCKET PRESENCE/SCRAMBLING- ok I am running out of time so I am combining this and making it a rather quick analysis. Carson, while not a classic scrambler was excellent at buying time in the pocket, making the first rusher miss and zipping the ball around the field. MANY MANY a yard was made this way with carson at SC. He would buy his WR's a little extra time to get open and fire away. Matt is NOT very fleet of foot and I think it will show some early in his NFL career while he catches up to the speed of the game. But matt does a great job of staying in the pocket, and delivering the ball with the rush in his face. Simply MATT makes some very very gutsy throws and take some big hits for it.... good news is the matt is a VERY big QB and can absorb some big hits... although I do worry he may get hurt standing in against the rush in the NFL every play.

In short.... I like Leinert more as a player than palmer... I think Matt has the ability to be a great game manager ala tom brady and win football games in many ways....but despite what some believe, he DOES have the ability to take over a game here and there and simply pass his way to victory. Alot has been said about the talent around matt but I will leave you with this.... how many other college QB's have won with almost exclusively younger playmakers around him??? leinert has turned freshman like mike williams and dwayne jarrett into stars as freshmen and sophmores, NOT the other way around.... who was the last QB to basically turn freshman WR to superstars??? and believe me, without leinert those guys never would have made a name for themselves that early...


jim

That's fantastic!
We aren't drafting him though so what's your point?

Megatron
11-11-2005, 06:15 PM
That's fantastic!
We aren't drafting him though so what's your point? Read the first paragraph again.:tongue:

unifiedtheory
11-11-2005, 06:16 PM
But if he's a bust it would screw us for years to come based on this deal.

True...but if he's Tom Brady we'll be damn happy we made the deal.

Coral Reefer
11-11-2005, 06:20 PM
Read the first paragraph again.:tongue:

I did read it.
If it admittedly has nothing to do with the Phins than lets welcome the Leinart love affair to the college football section.

Coral Reefer
11-11-2005, 06:22 PM
But if he's a bust it would screw us for years to come based on this deal.

By the way I agree with you on the trade.
Crazy talk IMO.

Ricky Williams and 2 1st round picks???
Too bad no one was willing to make a move like that when we had the number 2 last year.

Ozzy
11-11-2005, 06:24 PM
ok, I have read alot of posts on here from people either praising or bashing leinert and almost NONE of them are qualified enough to even be giving an opinion. Being a BIG SC fan as well as a huge fin fan I think I have the ability to give a very accurate and fair review of leinert. Unlike alot of the people on the board, I havent just seen a handful of matt's games.... I have seen every single one.... above that I also saw him 3 games in high school.... above even that I have been an SC fan for 25 years, and therefore have also seen all but 2 of carson palmer's games,etc etc. ... First off I would like to say ANYONE who is comparing leinert to the likes of andre ware, josh huepel, or ken dorsey have no idea what they are talking about.

I am giving a fair opinion by comparing him to a former #1 pick from SC who is now a pro bowl QB in the NFL...that is HOW.... now if I came on here talkin this or that about either of those guys WITHOUT knocking any part of there game or critizing them, THEN I would be bias and without a fair opinion. I gave a complete profile, knocking BOTH SC QB's weaknesses and giving both credit in parts of there game that are strengths... I would say that makes it a very fair comparison... I didnt come on here praising rodney peete or anything, I came on here giving a fair analysis after seeing both play almost every game..... I am more than capable of giving an unbias opinion for teams I root for, would you like one for the fins QB position too??? yea, I didnt think so .... I am just tired of seeing all these people who have never even seen the guy play trying to make comparisons to josh heupel or whomever else....

I'm not quite sure about everyone else, but the parts of your post that I highlighted in bold, and underlined might have had something to do with some of the negativity your recieving.

It was a pretty decent write up. I may not agree with all of it, but it was still good nonetheless.

Maybe next time try just giving your opinions on the subject instead of throwing in the snide remarks about people here. Even though you named no names, I'm pretty sure it might have turned some people off.

Afterall, these are nothing more than YOUR opinions, as are the ones who think he might be a bust.

Megatron
11-11-2005, 06:26 PM
I did read it.
If it admittedly has nothing to do with the Phins than lets welcome the Leinart love affair to the college football section. He gave his disclaimer as a Finfan and he also mentioned he'd love to see Leinart in a Fins uni. It stays here............. Megatron - 15
Trekbiz - love

aerokev
11-11-2005, 06:45 PM
The guy is still a young Q.B.

I was commenting on the fact someone said they'd take Brady Quinn (a guy who has had less then one good year of college) and Vince Young (who is not even a good NFL Q.B. prospect and terribly overrated) over a guy, Palmer, who'll be a Pro Bowler.
i would take quinn, but not young.

kastofsna120
11-11-2005, 06:56 PM
But if he's a bust it would screw us for years to come based on this deal.
but if he's a hall of famer than it was an easy trade. right now he projects more towards the HoF than a bust

Megatron
11-11-2005, 07:05 PM
but if he's a hall of famer than it was an easy trade. right now he projects more towards the HoF than a bustI'd have to disagree on this. Right now he sure as hell doen't project as a HOF player. Hell he doen't even project as to where in the first round he'll be picked.

kastofsna120
11-11-2005, 07:08 PM
I'd have to disagree on this. Right now he sure as hell doen't project as a HOF player. Hell he doen't even project as to where in the first round he'll be picked.
if you're projected as the top pick in the draft, that means great things are expected from you. you're not expected to suck as the top pick in the draft. therefore, he's projected MORE TOWARDS the hall of fame than not being good. not that he will be a hall of famer, but if you had to choose a side he was leaning to, ijegunuotgboutbnoe etc whatever i got bored with this post

Megatron
11-11-2005, 07:15 PM
if you're projected as the top pick in the draft, that means great things are expected from you. you're not expected to suck as the top pick in the draft. therefore, he's projected MORE TOWARDS the hall of fame than not being good. not that he will be a hall of famer, but if you had to choose a side he was leaning to, ijegunuotgboutbnoe etc whatever i got bored with this postSorry I'm having a hard time with the fact that if you are projected to be a top pick in the draft that that also means you are destined for the hall of fame.

tylerdolphin
11-11-2005, 07:34 PM
Ricky AND a 1st???? now, that's crazy talk....

That is very reasonable. Ive said this 5000 times on this board before, half the people here want a great QB, but want to make no ivestment. Id give 2 firsts for Leinart and throw in another pick/player. Unless youd rather wait 10 more years on a "franchise QB" to hit us over the head, you should want the same.

Nappy Roots
11-11-2005, 07:36 PM
No...I rather Brady Quinn...if he comes out....Vince Young...if comes out...if not I'll wait till next year...and play Lemon or Sage.




:french: :spit: :sidelol: :sidelol: :lolcry: :lolcry: :rofl:

kastofsna120
11-11-2005, 07:38 PM
That is very reasonable. Ive said this 5000 times on this board before, half the people here want a great QB, but want to make no ivestment. Id give 2 firsts for Leinart and throw in another pick/player. Unless youd rather wait 10 more years on a "franchise QB" to hit us over the head, you should want the same.
2 picks and ricky williams isn't even that much to me. we're going to trade ricky anyway, right? a franchise QB for years to come for two first rounders doesn't seem to steep to me

tylerdolphin
11-11-2005, 07:43 PM
2 picks and ricky williams isn't even that much to me. we're going to trade ricky anyway, right? a franchise QB for years to come for two first rounders doesn't seem to steep to me

exactly.

waypoint
11-11-2005, 07:54 PM
I'm not quite sure about everyone else, but the parts of your post that I highlighted in bold, and underlined might have had something to do with some of the negativity your recieving.

It was a pretty decent write up. I may not agree with all of it, but it was still good nonetheless.

Maybe next time try just giving your opinions on the subject instead of throwing in the snide remarks about people here. Even though you named no names, I'm pretty sure it might have turned some people off.

Afterall, these are nothing more than YOUR opinions, as are the ones who think he might be a bust.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

uhm ok.... but isnt that right in the preface of my thread??? does it not say the following will be an analysis from an SC fan?? the people I was referring to would have no reason to read my analysis as they themselves have already formed there own opinion. My thread is for those who dont know much about leinart and who are, in my opinion, being misled by posters who havent seen much of leinart in forming there opinion. BTW I dont have a problem with people's negativity at all... in fact if someone cant make a decent argument against my points and has to resort to correcting my spelling or things of that sort than it just goes further to prove my point.... thanx for looking out though....

AirFishOne
11-12-2005, 01:12 AM
go back to liking ur Bruins ur wagon hoper :D


but seriosuly, Matt is a good College QB, but wasnt Vinny Testaverde, Jason White, and Timmy Chang?

Buddwalk
11-12-2005, 01:24 AM
go back to liking ur Bruins ur wagon hoper :D


but seriosuly, Matt is a good College QB, but wasnt Vinny Testaverde, Jason White, and Timmy Chang?

Vinny wasnt a horrible nfl qb just not a good one ;)

waypoint
11-12-2005, 01:39 AM
but seriosuly, Matt is a good College QB, but wasnt Vinny Testaverde, Jason White, and Timmy Chang?<<<<<<<<

this isnt even an argument....what kind of statement is that??? so basically anytime someone is good in college you can say "what about so and so werent they a good college _____" .... doesnt make any sense...

Ozzy
11-12-2005, 02:14 AM
I'm not quite sure about everyone else, but the parts of your post that I highlighted in bold, and underlined might have had something to do with some of the negativity your recieving.

It was a pretty decent write up. I may not agree with all of it, but it was still good nonetheless.

Maybe next time try just giving your opinions on the subject instead of throwing in the snide remarks about people here. Even though you named no names, I'm pretty sure it might have turned some people off.

Afterall, these are nothing more than YOUR opinions, as are the ones who think he might be a bust.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

uhm ok.... but isnt that right in the preface of my thread??? does it not say the following will be an analysis from an SC fan?? the people I was referring to would have no reason to read my analysis as they themselves have already formed there own opinion. My thread is for those who dont know much about leinart and who are, in my opinion, being misled by posters who havent seen much of leinart in forming there opinion. BTW I dont have a problem with people's negativity at all... in fact if someone cant make a decent argument against my points and has to resort to correcting my spelling or things of that sort than it just goes further to prove my point.... thanx for looking out though....

Can I look out for you one more time? No offense but reading the post's the way you quote them is hard on the eyes. Use the reply with the quote button at the bottom of each post.

My point was that this thread had the makings of a real good thread, but to me you could have left out the "I'm going to tell you guys the real scoop because I know what I'm talking about and anyone else don't know didly".

Going right into the comparisons would have proven you did some homework, and spoke for itself. No need to pat yourself on the back with one hand while slapping someone else in the back with the other. Let us read it, then figure out that it's worthy. Not that my opinion matters though......

AirFishOne
11-12-2005, 03:43 AM
but seriosuly, Matt is a good College QB, but wasnt Vinny Testaverde, Jason White, and Timmy Chang?<<<<<<<<

this isnt even an argument....what kind of statement is that??? so basically anytime someone is good in college you can say "what about so and so werent they a good college _____" .... doesnt make any sense...

im not agreeing with you or dissagreein with you im just saying (and it has happened before) that overhyped players rnt good in teh nfl. its all im saying i knwo he is a great QB

Jaj
11-14-2005, 02:24 AM
All of these QBs right now are going to improve anyway come draft time. They will all gain arm strength too. Leinart's arm right now is stronger than Brady's was before the 2000 draft, that's for sure...

Jaj
11-14-2005, 02:40 AM
Leinart is really really good, that's all I can say, however it's just a question of how much you give up for him.

As for the arm strength thing, he's got a stronger arm than Brady had coming out of school. Leinart's arm will improve by the combine and it'll always be good not great. He's fine in that respect. His arm is stronger than Alex Smith's.

SMadison29
11-14-2005, 03:22 AM
Being a USC fan I feel that I'm qualified :chuckle: to critique his comparison of Carson & Matt


ACCURACY- Carson was a VERY streaky QB at USC when it came to accuracy. SC fans and coaches always expected alot of carson, even as a freshman but he was prone to going through extended periods of inaccuracy right up until midway through his senior year. It took carson awhile to get get the idea of putting the right kind of "touch" on certain throws. Even now when I watch carson I see a couple throws that he still struggles with his touch on. As for Leinert, in my book, he is the king of the touch thrown. What he does so well, is put the ball where he only gives his reciever a chance to catch it. He is also a master at being able to throw the ball to places where he can hit his reciever in stride, which in turn gives the WR a chance to make plays down the field after the catch. Matt is simply the best I have ever seen at this at USC or almost anywhere else... he is the most accurate QB at his age I have probably ever seen ....

Over his career Leinart has been more accurate, & yes, in Carson's first 4 years he was very streaky with his accuracy. But the year that counts the most is his senior year. He was lights out with his deep & intermediate passes. As for touch passes, of course Leinart is better with those since that is the majority of what he throws because he doesn't anywhere near the arm that Carson does, as you said.



INTELLIGENCE/DECISION MAKING- This was the biggest downfall for carson at USC as almost any true trojan fan will tell you. Carson could make the big play and then on the next play make a throwing a decision that would almost make you choke on your bratwurst. It was something as a fan, that would always be in the back of your mind in any SC game with carson at QB.

This is true of his freshman, sophomore, RS sophomore, & RS junior years, but again, the season where it counts the most, the season where you show off your development as a QB he was about as smart as you could get. Having to learn 3 offenses in 4 years & being hurt most of one stunts the development.



there would be almost no doubt he was gonna thrown for close to 300 yeard with a couple TD'S (especially his jr and sr years)

Carson struggled his junior year with the learning curve of Norm Chow's offense. If I remember correctly he only threw 300+ yards once & 2+ TDs a hand full of times.



i think palmers stats are skewed because of the competition cincinnati has played. against the only real team he looked lost

LOL, WTF are you talking about? He's had a QB rating of 100+ in 11 of his past 12 games. He's done this vs Baltimore, Chicago, & Jacksonville this year, each have better defenses than Pittsburgh, plus Green Bay who has a top 10 D. Then last year vs Baltimore & New England to start the streak. Carson is simply the best or next to best QB in the NFL (Peyton).

Jaj
11-14-2005, 03:26 AM
Being a USC fan I feel that I'm qualified :chuckle: to critique his comparison of Carson & Matt



Over his career Leinart has been more accurate, & yes, in Carson's first 4 years he was very streaky with his accuracy. But the year that counts the most is his senior year. He was lights out with his deep & intermediate passes. As for touch passes, of course Leinart is better with those since that is the majority of what he throws because he doesn't anywhere near the arm that Carson does, as you said.




This is true of his freshman, sophomore, RS sophomore, & RS junior years, but again, the season where it counts the most, the season where you show off your development as a QB he was about as smart as you could get. Having to learn 3 offenses in 4 years & being hurt most of one stunts the development.




Carson struggled his junior year with the learning curve of Norm Chow's offense. If I remember correctly he only threw 300+ yards once & 2+ TDs a hand full of times.




LOL, WTF are you talking about? He's had a QB rating of 100+ in 11 of his past 12 games. He's done this vs Baltimore, Chicago, & Jacksonville this year, each have better defenses than Pittsburgh, plus Green Bay who has a top 10 D. Then last year vs Baltimore & New England to start the streak. Carson is simply the best or next to best QB in the NFL (Peyton).

So how do you Leinart developing then SMAD?

SMadison29
11-14-2005, 03:30 AM
He's always been smart so his decision making can't really be question. You can see that he has come back his senior year to work on his arm strength & it shows every now & again, but IMO he's not in the same class as Carson, Peyton, or Eli coming out. He or Reggie should be #1 & #2, but Leinart is anything but a sure thing like the other 3.

Jaj
11-14-2005, 03:33 AM
He's always been smart so his decision making can't really be question. You can see that he has come back his senior year to work on his arm strength & it shows every now & again, but IMO he's not in the same class as Carson, Peyton, or Eli coming out. He or Reggie should be #1 & #2, but Leinart is anything but a sure thing like the other 3.

This is going to surprise you, but the QB I could see doing surprisingly well in this offense if he ever stayed healthy is Rex Grossman. Yes overall I agree he just doesn't have the physical skills of two of those two and well Peyton is Peyton, but he can be better in my mind than Tom Brady.

Ronnieisabeast
12-05-2005, 07:49 PM
I think he is going to be a huge bust. I don't think he has the arm strenght to make it in the nfl. Personally with all the talent USC has I think I could throw well if I was USC's QB. Maybe even Gus could throw well with all that talent. Then again it is Gus?

Caps
12-05-2005, 08:55 PM
I think Leinart will be good in the NFL, but he's not a "Franchise" QB like everyone says he is. I think his success in the pros will depend entirely on the system he is placed in.(and I don't think he fits ours)

Dors156
12-05-2005, 09:19 PM
I think he is going to be a huge bust. I don't think he has the arm strenght to make it in the nfl. Personally with all the talent USC has I think I could throw well if I was USC's QB. Maybe even Gus could throw well with all that talent. Then again it is Gus?


i agree i would rather have vince young

Alex44
12-05-2005, 09:20 PM
id rather not have a rookie QB ever

Leinart wont be succesful, Young will be a star QB but not in our system

Caps
12-05-2005, 09:21 PM
I'm a Cutler man myself.

Motion
12-05-2005, 09:53 PM
Never been a big fan of Leinart. I think he's very overrated. Young needs ALOT of work to be a successful QB in the NFL.

I want Cutler.

Alex44
12-05-2005, 09:56 PM
I dont mind drafting a QB as long as we dont start him for at least 2 seasons, bring him along slow, you know?

finfansince72
12-05-2005, 10:53 PM
Leinart will be a really good pro. He doesnt have the cannon that some NFL qbs have but he is as accurate as anyone throwing the ball. He is really smart also. He will learn NFL offenses and he will hit receivers in stride and they will make plays. Gus cant hit a receiver in stride and it kills our offense. Leinart will be able to do that.
I dont buy this nonsense that its all the talent around him either. He runs that offense and he makes huge plays in big games, when it matters. Leinart has done everything at the college level that you need to do to progress to the NFL. He is certainly the top Qb coming out and will be drafted no lower than 3. He uses the talent around him perfectly, when he goes to the NFL he will do the same. He will let the Wrs make plays for him and he will learn how to run an offense.
I hope we do whatever it takes to get him. I have no doubt that if we have a shot at Leinart, which I doubt, that we will take him.

Alex44
12-05-2005, 10:55 PM
Are you trying to kill our franchise?

Leinart will not be a great NFL QB

Ken Dorsey, the same kind of college player as leinart is, no-one will argue Dorsey is a great NFL QB

DonShula84
12-05-2005, 10:56 PM
Are you trying to kill our franchise?

Leinart will not be a great NFL QB

Ken Dorsey, the same kind of college player as leinart is, no-one will argue Dorsey is a great NFL QB

I cant believe anyone would argue that Dorsey is the same kind of player as Leinart.

Alex44
12-05-2005, 10:57 PM
below average arm strength

great accuracy, smart player, uses the talent around him well

tell me the differences

cnc66
12-05-2005, 11:03 PM
I cant believe anyone would argue that Dorsey is the same kind of player as Leinart.

26-1 is pretty damned good

byroan
12-05-2005, 11:06 PM
below average arm strength

great accuracy, smart player, uses the talent around him well

tell me the differences

Dorsey is not a smart player nor does he have great accuracy. Dorsey never completed more than 60% of his passes, his senior year was his lowest. Leinart completes 65%+ of his passes. Leinart is a much better player. Dorsey was drafted in the 7th round and was never thought of being a first round pick let alone the #1 pick.

ether79
12-05-2005, 11:12 PM
below average arm strength

great accuracy, smart player, uses the talent around him well

tell me the differences

Leinart doesn't have below average arm strength.

Alex44
12-05-2005, 11:12 PM
Leinart doesn't have below average arm strength.


For an NFL QB yes he does

Alex44
12-05-2005, 11:14 PM
26-1 is pretty damned good


exactly dorsey finds a way to win

and


Has been better than #1 pick Alex Smith in san fransico, and he was a great college QB

ether79
12-05-2005, 11:15 PM
For an NFL QB yes he does

No he has average arm strength for the NFL, which is better than below average.. Plus compared to Dorsey...Leinart is superior in reading defenses and making adjustments based on what sees. Plus he has superior pocket presence.

DonShula84
12-06-2005, 12:12 AM
below average arm strength

great accuracy, smart player, uses the talent around him well

tell me the differences

Leinart may not have Palmers arm, but his is stronger than Dorseys.

finfansince72
12-06-2005, 12:12 AM
NFL Scouts arent that stupid. You dont know something they dont know. Theres no way a untalented Qb that was a product of a system or the players around him like Dorsey would be touted as the number one player in a draft. Cmon, thats just being ignorant. You can hate on Leinart all you want but he is on a completely different level than Dorsey. Just look at them, Dorsey was a stick figure in shouldpads with little talent, Leinart has the size, smarts and tools it takes to win in the NFL. Comparing Dorsey to Leinart leaves your credibility to talk about prospects in severe jeopardy, thats just dumb.

Buddwalk
12-06-2005, 12:13 AM
WTF dude leinarts arm is not crappy...hes actually shut down all the doubts about his arm strength this year. Also if anything his draft stock has improved from last year its not nessecarely the winning its his poise and leadship in the pocket, what ken dorsey did was hand off to amazing running backs like clinton portis and willis mcgahee and let them do all the work. Ken Dorsey could never throw the ball on 4th and 15 and get 60 yards like Leinart did in that game against notre dame ;)

DonShula84
12-06-2005, 12:15 AM
WTF dude leinarts arm is not crappy...hes actually shut down all the doubts about his arm strength this year. Also if anything his draft stock has improved from last year its not nessecarely the winning its his poise and leadship in the pocket, what ken dorsey did was hand off to amazing running backs like clinton portis and willis mcgahee and let them do all the work. Ken Dorsey could never throw the ball on 4th and 15 and get 60 yards like Leinart did in that game against notre dame ;)

It was 4th and 9 :fire:

ether79
12-06-2005, 12:17 AM
Comparing Dorsey to Leinart leaves your credibility to talk about prospects in severe jeopardy

:yeahthat:

Alex44
12-06-2005, 12:17 AM
WTF dude leinarts arm is not crappy...hes actually shut down all the doubts about his arm strength this year. Also if anything his draft stock has improved from last year its not nessecarely the winning its his poise and leadship in the pocket, what ken dorsey did was hand off to amazing running backs like clinton portis and willis mcgahee and let them do all the work. Ken Dorsey could never throw the ball on 4th and 15 and get 60 yards like Leinart did in that game against notre dame ;)


Dorsey step back and hand it to those guys?

What about leinart stepping back and handing it to reggie bush? and lendail white?

ether79
12-06-2005, 12:18 AM
Dorsey step back and hand it to those guys?

What about leinart stepping back and handing it to reggie bush? and lendail white?

Other than the fact that he is 4th in the nation in passing yards.

Alex44
12-06-2005, 12:19 AM
NFL Scouts arent that stupid. You dont know something they dont know. Theres no way a untalented Qb that was a product of a system or the players around him like Dorsey would be touted as the number one player in a draft. Cmon, thats just being ignorant. You can hate on Leinart all you want but he is on a completely different level than Dorsey. Just look at them, Dorsey was a stick figure in shouldpads with little talent, Leinart has the size, smarts and tools it takes to win in the NFL. Comparing Dorsey to Leinart leaves your credibility to talk about prospects in severe jeopardy, thats just dumb.


I didnt say dorsey should be a #1 pick

or

Leinart should be a 7th

I said they were the same type of QB not equally talented

leinart will be a bust though, just wait, or maybe not a bust, but not a great NFL QB

Alex44
12-06-2005, 12:20 AM
Other than the fact that he is 4th in the nation in passing yards.


And you dont think that has anything to do with the fact that teams respect their running game and put 8 in the box against them?

ether79
12-06-2005, 12:24 AM
And you dont think that has anything to do with the fact that teams respect their running game and put 8 in the box against them?

And Bush and LenDale White are still 3rd and 16th in rushing yrds. I think that anyone who watches or has watched Leinart play and then compares him to Dorsey doesn't know what to look for.

Alex44
12-06-2005, 12:26 AM
And Bush and LenDale White are still 3rd and 16th in rushing yrds. I think that anyone who watches or has watched Leinart play and then compare him to Dorsey doesn't know what to look for.

Anyone will look good when their RB can put up over 500 all purpose yards in the game

and again read my post, Im not comparing them im saying they are the same type of player, their strengths and weaknesses are the same, even though leinarts strengths are stronger than dorseys

leinart is a far better player, but he will lack the arm strength to be a great NFL QB

Alex44
12-06-2005, 12:27 AM
And Bush and LenDale White are still 3rd and 16th in rushing yrds. I think that anyone who watches or has watched Leinart play and then compares him to Dorsey doesn't know what to look for.


You just proved my point more also

They still run with 8 men in the box, the defense is so zoned in on the run it gives leinart far more open plays downfield

ether79
12-06-2005, 12:30 AM
You just proved my point more also

They still run with 8 men in the box, the defense is so zoned in on the run it gives leinart far more open plays downfield

But according to you he doesn't have the arm strength to get it downfield. I'm done defending Leinart, his career will speak for itself. I just hope there would be 14-16 GMs before our pick that think exactly like you. Sadly there won't be 1.

Motion
12-06-2005, 09:52 AM
Now I'm not a Leinart fan, but you GOTTA be kidding me. Comparing him to Ken freaking Dorsey????? :rofl3:

No one will ever take your posts seriously again.

Alex44
12-06-2005, 09:55 AM
Now I'm not a Leinart fan, but you GOTTA be kidding me. Comparing him to Ken freaking Dorsey????? :rofl3:

No one will ever take your posts seriously again.

I didnt say leinart was only as good as ken dorsey

No **** leinart is better

if you read anything i wrote you would know I said their strengths and weaknesses are the same type leinarts strengths are more and weaknesses are less

if you would read into what im saying rather than riddecule it you might learn something, or better yet read it right

Motion
12-06-2005, 09:57 AM
I didnt say leinart was only as good as ken dorsey

No **** leinart is better

if you read anything i wrote you would know I said their strengths and weaknesses are the same type leinarts strengths are more and weaknesses are less

if you would read into what im saying rather than riddecule it you might learn something, or better yet read it right

I did read what you wrote. Don't try and back your way out of what you said now just cause everyone jumped on you. You compared the two, plain and simple.

Alex44
12-06-2005, 10:01 AM
Yeah compared them in the these ways

said they both had below average arm strength and were guys who relied on accuracy and smart decisions at the college level

also said that I wasnt saying Dorsey should have been a #1 pick, or that leinart should be a 7th rounder, i just used it to explain that a great college QB doesnt need NFL lever arm strength and can succeed in college and not be a great pro player

Blitz
12-06-2005, 02:46 PM
Dorsey step back and hand it to those guys?

What about leinart stepping back and handing it to reggie bush? and lendail white?

Leinart led the comeback against Notre Dame Marino/Montana/Elway-style. Without that amazing comeback, USC probably wouldn't be in the national championship game...

Leinart's arm strength is comparable to what Peyton Manning displayed in college. Yes, he doesn't have an Elway/Bledsoe-cannon (Jeff George and Ryan Leaf did...how did that work out?), but he can make all of the NFL throws and he has the smarts to be successful in the pros. If he winds up on the right team he's going to be the new Joe Cool.

byroan
12-06-2005, 07:19 PM
leinart is a far better player, but he will lack the arm strength to be a great NFL QB

I heard the same crap about Pennington's arm and that he won't make it in the NFL. If Pennington could stay healthy he'd be a top 10 QB in the league. Leinart has a better arm than Pennington. You're making yourself look foolish by saying Leinart will be a bust.

You also compared Leinart and Dorsey. Don't try to change that.

kastofsna120
12-07-2005, 03:52 AM
some notes:


leinart doesn't have an average arm by NFL standards. he has an average arm by #1 overall pick standards. but that doesn't matter because his arm is still plenty good to succeed in the NFL

this is part of my "people read what they want to read" theory, which is that when someone sees/hears that leinart has an "average arm" they immediately think "he has a weak arm." of course, if they actually watched the games themselves they'd know they were wrong

also i love that a vince young lover will say leinart will be a bust because he has such a great supporting cast. and young is on a division 1AA team, right?

dominizzo
12-07-2005, 07:52 AM
some notes:


leinart doesn't have an average arm by NFL standards. he has an average arm by #1 overall pick standards. but that doesn't matter because his arm is still plenty good to succeed in the NFL

this is part of my "people read what they want to read" theory, which is that when someone sees/hears that leinart has an "average arm" they immediately think "he has a weak arm." of course, if they actually watched the games themselves they'd know they were wrong

also i love that a vince young lover will say leinart will be a bust because he has such a great supporting cast. and young is on a division 1AA team, right?

Say what you want Young will be a Fin if he declares Saban likes him

Motion
12-07-2005, 08:00 AM
Say what you want Young will be a Fin if he declares Saban likes him

:shakeno: And you would know who Saban likes.

dominizzo
12-07-2005, 08:44 AM
:shakeno: And you would know who Saban likes.

Saban likes him thers on article in WPB soo before saying anything check the news

Motion
12-07-2005, 09:50 AM
Saban likes him thers on article in WPB soo before saying anything check the news

Why don't you post a link to backup your claim?

Alex44
12-07-2005, 09:53 AM
Look at young and leinarts stats head to head

Its obvious Vince is a better QB

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=120511

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=135107

in 100 less passes vince is 1 TD behind Leinart

and

Those who say vince has no accuracy

63.3 percent for vince

65 percent for leinart

not much difference

Motion
12-07-2005, 10:06 AM
Look at young and leinarts stats head to head

Its obvious Vince is a better QB

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=120511

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=135107

in 100 less passes vince is 1 TD behind Leinart

and

Those who say vince has no accuracy

63.3 percent for vince

65 percent for leinart

not much difference

College stats mean squat. David Greene is the all-time winningest college QB and Timmy Chang is the all-time leader in passing yards, does that make them good NFL QBs?????

NO

Alex44
12-07-2005, 10:09 AM
College stats mean squat. David Greene is the all-time winningest college QB and Timmy Chang is the all-time leader in passing yards, does that make them good NFL QBs?????

NO


Timmy played on a team that threw the ball 60 damn times a game

Vince young is a guy that plays on a normal team, one that mixes run and pass, just like USC.

They are comparable

Alex44
12-07-2005, 10:10 AM
College stats mean squat. David Greene is the all-time winningest college QB and Timmy Chang is the all-time leader in passing yards, does that make them good NFL QBs?????

NO


also

Ill take a QB with good stats over a QB with bad stats

So your point really isnt very valid no offense

david Greene never had the hype Young has, and for a good reason

Motion
12-07-2005, 10:13 AM
also

Ill take a QB with good stats over a QB with bad stats

So your point really isnt very valid no offense

david Greene never had the hype Young has, and for a good reason

My point is VERY valid. Scouts do not look at stats they look at raw talent and ability. I never said I'd take bad stats over good stats, I said stats aren't as important when evaluating talent!

Alex44
12-07-2005, 10:13 AM
My point is VERY valid. Scouts do not look at stats they look at raw talent and ability. I never said I'd take bad stats over good stats, I said stats aren't as important when evaluating talent!


and young has more talent so whats your point?


Leinart is more ready for the NFL at this point

but

Down the road Vince is a better player

Motion
12-07-2005, 10:20 AM
and young has more talent so whats your point?



Doesn't really matter. I'm not a big fan of either, I don't want either in Miami. And it really doesn't look like we'll be in a position for either one of them anyway. I think Leinart is WAY overrated and Young needs alot of work/coaching to become a good NFL QB, but he has the tools. I just don't have that much faith in Jason Garrett to turn him into a solid NFL QB.

donart
12-25-2005, 09:00 AM
I'm of the school of thought that he is. I think we will see how good he is against Texas and Vince. I would rather see either Vince or Brady Quinn as the next QB for the fins.

unifiedtheory
12-25-2005, 09:08 AM
Leinart has nothing to prove. That being said, I look forward to him tearing the Longhorns up and ceasing all this "he is overrated" crap.

I think the question you should have asked was "Is Vince Young overrated"....and my answer would be YES!

donart
12-25-2005, 09:19 AM
I guess I touched a nerve. I suggest you look for a post from Alex22 and watch the Vince Young video and get back to me. I think you might be change your mind about Vince. He is the "REAL DEAL".;)

aerokev
12-25-2005, 09:20 AM
I'm of the school of thought that he is. I think we will see how good he is against Texas and Vince. I would rather see either Vince or Brady Quinn as the next QB for the fins.

i believe he is, and i don't think he has a good enough arm. his stats were actually down this year, but everyonewants to overlook it. and based on stats alone he should not have even been a heisman trophy finalist. i am not sold on young yet, but quinn i think is the best oif the 3

donart
12-25-2005, 09:26 AM
I'm with you on Quinn. I think he is a better fit for the Fins.

tylerdolphin
12-25-2005, 09:35 AM
He is under-rated now, based on how many peope here hate his guts. Also, his arm is better than people try to say it is. It doesnt remind you of a Favre fastball, but its good enough

Dors156
12-25-2005, 10:26 AM
i think he is over rated a little bit.look at all the players surronding him.he has bush and white.how can he not be good.

unifiedtheory
12-25-2005, 10:48 AM
I guess I touched a nerve. I suggest you look for a post from Alex22 and watch the Vince Young video and get back to me. I think you might be change your mind about Vince. He is the "REAL DEAL".;)

#1. I don't want to LOOK for a post from Alex22. If I want spam I'll go to the spam board.

#2. I've seen Vince Young play a half dozen times and he does not impress me in the least. He's very athletic but as a passer I'll take Leinart 100 times out of 100.

Young throws to WIDE open recievers playing against bad Big 12 defenses. He makes a read and runs and never calls an audible.

KB21
12-25-2005, 10:56 AM
I guess I touched a nerve. I suggest you look for a post from Alex22 and watch the Vince Young video and get back to me. I think you might be change your mind about Vince. He is the "REAL DEAL".;)

When Vince Young shows that he can actually pass the football to the level that Matt Leinart does, you can then tell me that he is the real deal. There are numerous quarterback skills that Matt Leinart is FAR BETTER than Vince Young at.

The first of which is proper mechanics and footwork. The second of which is accuracy. Matt Leinart also reads the field much, much, much better than Vince Young. Young doesn't see things on the field like a great quarterback sees them. He's the type that makes a read and runs if that read isn't open. That's not Matt Leinart. Matt will make the presnap read, change the play at the line, and then complete a big pass against a tampa two coverage. I've yet to see Vince Young check a play at the line.

The ONLY thing Vince Young does better than Matt Leinart is run with the football.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the best, I'd rate Leinart's passing skills as an 8 and Young's passing skills as a 3.

KB21
12-25-2005, 10:57 AM
He is under-rated now, based on how many peope here hate his guts. Also, his arm is better than people try to say it is. It doesnt remind you of a Favre fastball, but its good enough

Matt Leinart is in the Peyton Manning, Eli Manning level of prospects. The Manning brothers are the best quarterback prospects to enter the NFL in a decade, and Matt Leinart carries the same high grade that they carried.

aerokev
12-25-2005, 11:00 AM
#1. I don't want to LOOK for a post from Alex22. If I want spam I'll go to the spam board.

#2. I've seen Vince Young play a half dozen times and he does not impress me in the least. He's very athletic but as a passer I'll take Leinart 100 times out of 100.

Young throws to WIDE open recievers playing against bad Big 12 defenses. He makes a read and runs and never calls an audible.

yes as compared to the pac 1 schools. :sidelol: how many QBs didn't put up great numbers in that conference?

aerokev
12-25-2005, 11:01 AM
Matt Leinart is in the Peyton Manning, Eli Manning level of prospects. The Manning brothers are the best quarterback prospects to enter the NFL in a decade, and Matt Leinart carries the same high grade that they carried.

everyone looks at his record, try looking at his stas and even comparing them against last year. his arm is a BIG question mark

KB21
12-25-2005, 11:04 AM
everyone looks at his record, try looking at his stas and even comparing them against last year. his arm is a BIG question mark

I don't have to look at his record or his stats. I've seen him play numerous times. His arm is not a big question mark. He's got a stronger arm than Vince Young, but Young's arm is weak due to his poor mechanics and that brain dead coaching staff they have at Texas when it came to trying to correct his very flawed mechanics.

I've also seen Vince Young play several times, and I would not draft him in the first round based on his quarterback ability. I'd rate him as a first round pick due to his athleticism, but I'd draft him as a receiver. He's not much different from Matt Jones, though Matt Jones is a better athlete.

unifiedtheory
12-25-2005, 11:06 AM
When Vince Young shows that he can actually pass the football to the level that Matt Leinart does, you can then tell me that he is the real deal. There are numerous quarterback skills that Matt Leinart is FAR BETTER than Vince Young at.

The first of which is proper mechanics and footwork. The second of which is accuracy. Matt Leinart also reads the field much, much, much better than Vince Young. Young doesn't see things on the field like a great quarterback sees them. He's the type that makes a read and runs if that read isn't open. That's not Matt Leinart. Matt will make the presnap read, change the play at the line, and then complete a big pass against a tampa two coverage. I've yet to see Vince Young check a play at the line.

The ONLY thing Vince Young does better than Matt Leinart is run with the football.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the best, I'd rate Leinart's passing skills as an 8 and Young's passing skills as a 3.

Once again, KB puts into words what I was trying to say...

...and once again someone with little or no football knowledge will be dazzled by the Vince Young hype machine and fail to see what does and does'nt make a great QUARTERBACK.

unifiedtheory
12-25-2005, 11:07 AM
I love a good Chrsitmas arguement!:)

capecoralfinfan
12-25-2005, 11:17 AM
Matt Leinart is in the Peyton Manning, Eli Manning level of prospects. The Manning brothers are the best quarterback prospects to enter the NFL in a decade, and Matt Leinart carries the same high grade that they carried.

i don't know about all that...no one will trade a draft away to get lienart.

donart
12-25-2005, 11:37 AM
I still would rather have Quinn over Lienert. Time will tell. History will repeat itself with Lienert. Another Heisman winner turned NFL bust. I'm j/k... He is a GOOD quarterback at the college level. Let's see if he can compete with the big boys.:lol:

His Dudeness
12-25-2005, 11:51 AM
this whole thing baffles me to no end.... what more does leinart have to do? he's won championships, he's came through in the most clutch of times... 4th and 9.... 61 yard PERFECT pass to dwyane jarrett... i'm not a usc fan, but you're crazy if you think that VINCE YOUNG?!!! is better than him. vince is an excellent runner, but i see him as he is now.... as somewhere between kordell stewart and daunte culpepper (with the ints/fumbles/ and no moss... good but... eh.)

Finfanforever
12-25-2005, 11:56 AM
I'm of the school of thought that he is. I think we will see how good he is against Texas and Vince. I would rather see either Vince or Brady Quinn as the next QB for the fins.

Aaahhhh....NO!

He is the best QB to come out in years. The experts are even grading him out better than Carson Palmer. He is a true QUARTERBACK is every since of the word...unlike Young who is a great athlete...who just happens to play QB. There is a big difference between the two.

aerokev
12-25-2005, 11:59 AM
I don't have to look at his record or his stats. I've seen him play numerous times. His arm is not a big question mark. He's got a stronger arm than Vince Young, but Young's arm is weak due to his poor mechanics and that brain dead coaching staff they have at Texas when it came to trying to correct his very flawed mechanics.

I've also seen Vince Young play several times, and I would not draft him in the first round based on his quarterback ability. I'd rate him as a first round pick due to his athleticism, but I'd draft him as a receiver. He's not much different from Matt Jones, though Matt Jones is a better athlete.

not arguing with you there, i don't like young or leinert. young has bad mechanics, and i don't think either has that good of an arm. i think quinn is and will be better than both in the pros, and i would take cutler over young and leinert as well.

djfresh47
12-25-2005, 12:02 PM
He's rated as the best Qb prospect, and he's the best Qb prospect, I think he's rated right where he should be. It's laughable that people hold it against him that Pete Carroll is better at his job than every other college coach in the country and gets the best players. I think he'll be a very good pro, and look forward to everyone rushing to judgement like they've done on every other young Qb in the league saying they're a bust after like 4 starts.

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:03 PM
this whole thing baffles me to no end.... what more does leinart have to do? he's won championships, he's came through in the most clutch of times... 4th and 9.... 61 yard PERFECT pass to dwyane jarrett... i'm not a usc fan, but you're crazy if you think that VINCE YOUNG?!!! is better than him. vince is an excellent runner, but i see him as he is now.... as somewhere between kordell stewart and daunte culpepper (with the ints/fumbles/ and no moss... good but... eh.)

61 yard perfect pass, or 10 yard pass that the receiver ran 50 yards after? granted USC won a championship and could repeat this year, but that really doesn't matter as far as talent goes for QB does it? if it did, why haven't any Oklahoma QBs worked out in the pros? i also don't think that young is the answer either, i do think he is alot better runner than either stewart or culpepper, but his arm is also questionable

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:07 PM
He's rated as the best Qb prospect, and he's the best Qb prospect, I think he's rated right where he should be. It's laughable that people hold it against him that Pete Carroll is better at his job than every other college coach in the country and gets the best players. I think he'll be a very good pro, and look forward to everyone rushing to judgement like they've done on every other young Qb in the league saying they're a bust after like 4 starts.

after last year he would have been the 1st pick in the draft as the top prospect, comparing his stats this year to last, he took a step back. i still think he will be adequate in the pros for the right team (playing in a dome), but i don't think he turns a franchise around.

His Dudeness
12-25-2005, 12:10 PM
61 yard perfect pass, or 10 yard pass that the receiver ran 50 yards after? granted USC won a championship and could repeat this year, but that really doesn't matter as far as talent goes for QB does it? if it did, why haven't any Oklahoma QBs worked out in the pros? i also don't think that young is the answer either, i do think he is alot better runner than either stewart or culpepper, but his arm is also questionable

yea, ok, jarrett made a hell of a run.... BUT THAT THROW WAS PERFECT! not too lofty, not too fast, just right in there... pressure's on and he made a great throw... you're really gonna stand there and tell me you weren't impressed by that play??

RunningBackGuru
12-25-2005, 12:12 PM
Leinart has nothing to prove. That being said, I look forward to him tearing the Longhorns up and ceasing all this "he is overrated" crap.

I think the question you should have asked was "Is Vince Young overrated"....and my answer would be YES!

:yes: I agree.

bullseyeguy
12-25-2005, 12:14 PM
Stats on that team aren't neccesarily a reflection of how well he is at playing the QB position. When you have the RBs USC has, the need to throw the ball is greatly diminished. Anyways isnt there a saying out there, something like "stats are for losers".....

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:15 PM
:yes: I agree.

they both are, because their teams are undefeated. young did however carry his team more with his running then passing, but atlanta has proven with vick, that gets you no where. the biggest games of the year for leinert, USC had to rely on bush not leinert to win the game

saves
12-25-2005, 12:16 PM
I still would rather have Quinn over Lienert. Time will tell. History will repeat itself with Lienert. Another Heisman winner turned NFL bust. I'm j/k... He is a GOOD quarterback at the college level. Let's see if he can compete with the big boys.:lol:

Quinn? The publics love afair for the Irish is disgusting.

kastofsna120
12-25-2005, 12:18 PM
I love a good Chrsitmas arguement!:)
the fact that this is even an argument is HYSTERICAL. saying leinart is overrated is foolish

kastofsna120
12-25-2005, 12:19 PM
Quinn? The publics love afair for the Irish is disgusting.
what's that have to do with anything? he's a great quarterback prospect. doesn't matter what school he plays for

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:19 PM
Quinn? The publics love afair for the Irish is disgusting.

USC was ranked no.1 all year, ND was not even ranked in the top 40 preseason. the team was excting to watch with quinn throwing the ball all over the place, and the ND/USC game was the best game i have seen in a long time

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:23 PM
Stats on that team aren't neccesarily a reflection of how well he is at playing the QB position. When you have the RBs USC has, the need to throw the ball is greatly diminished. Anyways isnt there a saying out there, something like "stats are for losers".....

you would think with the RB's that leinert would have thrown the ball less this year, but after the bowl game he will have more attempts than he did last year. the difference is he has already thrown more ints, and he has 6 TDs less. 2003 is actually leinerts best year, and his stats have declined. when teams have to focus more on the running game with bush and white leinert should have been putting up ridiculous numbers and he didn't.

kastofsna120
12-25-2005, 12:27 PM
you would think with the RB's that leinert would have thrown the ball less this year, but after the bowl game he will have more attempts than he did last year. the difference is he has already thrown more ints, and he has 6 TDs less. 2003 is actually leinerts best year, and his stats have declined. when teams have to focus more on the running game with bush and white leinert should have been putting up ridiculous numbers and he didn't.
yeah he's declined from the 164.46 QB rating to the horrible 158.29

Itsdahumidity
12-25-2005, 12:30 PM
Leinart has nothing to prove.

Actually unified, he has everything to prove at the pro level. Can he play in a league where the comp is equal? Can he deliver the ball against top DBs he'll

face every game? Can he take the big hits that awaits him in every game? How will he react when faced with adversity after realizing that success won't come

easy at the next level? I'm not a V. Young fan so this is not "my guy vs your guy," just responding to your "nothing to prove comment."

donart
12-25-2005, 12:32 PM
I sparked some good conversation today. So I'm bored at work on Christmas Day. I hope you all got all the presents you wanted this year. I just hope the fins have a great year next year!!!:dolphins:

By the way, I don't think Vince Young is a better "Quarterback" than ML I just think he does more on the field than ML. Put ML on a team that he has to carry and I think the load would be too heavy. He's just a good QB. Carson Palmer had a good game yesterday didn't he???;) Even the so called experts get it wrong now and again. Happy New year everyone!!!!

kastofsna120
12-25-2005, 12:33 PM
Actually unified, he has everything to prove at the pro level. Can he play in a league where the comp is equal? Can he deliver the ball against top DBs he'll

face every game? Can he take the big hits that awaits him in every game? How will he react when faced with adversity after realizing that success won't come

easy at the next level? I'm not a V. Young fan so this is not "my guy vs your guy," just responding to your "nothing to prove comment."
he was responding to the guy's comment that the rose bowl will prove how good leinart is

donart
12-25-2005, 12:35 PM
yeah he's declined from the 164.46 QB rating to the horrible 158.29

Is that you in the picture with Matt???:sidelol:

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:36 PM
yeah he's declined from the 164.46 QB rating to the horrible 158.29

2003 38 tds 9 ints
2004 33 tds 6 ints
2005 27 tds 7 ints

did anyone else notice a trend? and with bush and white running the ball the numbers should have been going higher. the number of attempts will actually be more after this years bowl game than either 2003 or 2004, so the less attempts cannot be used as an argument

Amars
12-25-2005, 12:37 PM
DONART is ALEX22 in hiding. He'll be gone once Texas get beat by USC.

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:38 PM
Is that you in the picture with Matt???:sidelol:

do they do drug testing at USC? he looks like he is on something, or he is afraid of women.:sidelol:

Amars
12-25-2005, 12:38 PM
2003 38 tds 9 ints
2004 33 tds 6 ints
2005 27 tds 7 ints

did anyone else notice a trend? and with bush and white running the ball the numbers should have been going higher. the number of attempts will actually be more after this years bowl game than either 2003 or 2004, so the less attempts cannot be used as an argument


What else happen. NORM CHOW left. So pete carroll the defensive coach that he is call the offensive plays. And what do defensive coaches like to run the ball.

donart
12-25-2005, 12:39 PM
DONART is ALEX22 in hiding. He'll be gone once Texas get beat by USC.

he must of had too much christmas fun last night. ;)

kastofsna120
12-25-2005, 12:40 PM
2003 38 tds 9 ints
2004 33 tds 6 ints
2005 27 tds 7 ints

did anyone else notice a trend? and with bush and white running the ball the numbers should have been going higher. the number of attempts will actually be more after this years bowl game than either 2003 or 2004, so the less attempts cannot be used as an argument
how does the running game make his numbers better? he's going to have less TDs when they give the ball to the backs in the redzone and let them get a TD

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:42 PM
how does the running game make his numbers better? he's going to have less TDs when they give the ball to the backs in the redzone and let them get a TD

he is also going to have more people at the line to defend the run which would open up the passing game. he will have more passing attempts this year than 2003 and 2004 so the give the ball to the RBs in the red zone doesn't make a lot of sense, he had more throws to get TDs and he didn't

aerokev
12-25-2005, 12:43 PM
What else happen. NORM CHOW left. So pete carroll the defensive coach that he is call the offensive plays. And what do defensive coaches like to run the ball.

chow was there in 2004

Alex44
12-25-2005, 12:49 PM
Happy Holiday everyone, merry x-mas or whatever you celebrate

Leinart doesnt impress me, the fact that he can hit wide open recievers and hand the ball to reggie bush doesnt impress me, if leinart is on texas they arnt undefeated, yet if vince plays for USC they are probally still undefeated

Leinarts arm isnt stronger than Vince's arm so whoever said that should be thrown out of the arguement for lack of knowlege, and Vince's footwork isnt bad at all, his feet are always moving in the pocket so he can avoid defenders and step up to deliver the ball

Give me a break on the schedule, because USC's only REAL game they should have worried about was notre dame and leinart sucked that game untill the very end, and to anyone who is gonna say vince sucked against ohio state should have watched leinart vs ND to see what sucking really is

and why are you going to punish vince for putting the ball right where the WR can make a play on it and the DB cant? Even when he doesnt hit his guys in stride he throws the ball in the right spot his accuracy may not be the best but its more than suitable for the NFL

Leinart has more questionmarks imo than young does

donart
12-25-2005, 12:49 PM
You are in Love with this guy. Let's see what the outcome is on Jan 4. That should put an end to all this Leinert Love fest...
GO GATORS!!!!

donart
12-25-2005, 12:55 PM
Happy Holiday everyone, merry x-mas or whatever you celebrate

Leinart doesnt impress me, the fact that he can hit wide open recievers and hand the ball to reggie bush doesnt impress me, if leinart is on texas they arnt undefeated, yet if vince plays for USC they are probally still undefeated

Leinarts arm isnt stronger than Vince's arm so whoever said that should be thrown out of the arguement for lack of knowlege, and Vince's footwork isnt bad at all, his feet are always moving in the pocket so he can avoid defenders and step up to deliver the ball

Give me a break on the schedule, because USC's only REAL game they should have worried about was notre dame and leinart sucked that game untill the very end, and to anyone who is gonna say vince sucked against ohio state should have watched leinart vs ND to see what sucking really is

and why are you going to punish vince for putting the ball right where the WR can make a play on it and the DB cant? Even when he doesnt hit his guys in stride he throws the ball in the right spot his accuracy may not be the best but its more than suitable for the NFL

Leinart has more questionmarks imo than young does

I tried to get one of these Leinert lovers to watch your video and he didn't want to see the truth. Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it.:D

kastofsna120
12-25-2005, 12:58 PM
he is also going to have more people at the line to defend the run which would open up the passing game. he will have more passing attempts this year than 2003 and 2004 so the give the ball to the RBs in the red zone doesn't make a lot of sense, he had more throws to get TDs and he didn't
just because he throws the ball more doesn't mean he's throwing more TD attempts

kastofsna120
12-25-2005, 12:58 PM
Leinart has more questionmarks imo than young does
that's the dumbest thing you've said yet

aerokev
12-25-2005, 01:09 PM
just because he throws the ball more doesn't mean he's throwing more TD attempts

every throw that is made has a chance for a TD doesn't it? the more pass attempts the more chances you have to throw for a TD. unless i am missing your point, leinert can only throw the ball for TD's if they are by the end zone? which would go back to the weak arm knock of leinert

saves
12-25-2005, 01:15 PM
what's that have to do with anything? he's a great quarterback prospect. doesn't matter what school he plays for

Because I don't think Quinn is all that good and to say he is better than one of the most hyped player to come out in along time is foolish. He is a scrappy player that really gets Weis's system, has been effective, but hasn't really "wowed" yet. He needs another year in college to really put his physical talents together before he trumps Leinart.

CsonkaClone
12-25-2005, 01:20 PM
It doesn't really matter how good Leinart is because he's not going to be a Dolphin anyway...Well I guess it does matter if he ends up with the Jets or Bills.

Raekwon The Che
12-25-2005, 01:23 PM
Get off of Vince Young's nuts. He's mechanics are terrible, have you looked at the air he can get under his balls? Virtually NONE with that throwing motion, MANY of Vince Young's passes would have been intercepted because of this. Have you seen Vince make audibles and reads pre-snap? I haven't and when doesn't make a decision, he runs. Those type of QBs are a dying breed in the NFL nowadays.

Matt Leinart underthrows sometimes and that's pretty much for him.

Raekwon The Che
12-25-2005, 01:25 PM
I would hope the Dolphin lands him...

aerokev
12-25-2005, 01:27 PM
Because I don't think Quinn is all that good and to say he is better than one of the most hyped player to come out in along time is foolish. He is a scrappy player that really gets Weis's system, has been effective, but hasn't really "wowed" yet. He needs another year in college to really put his physical talents together before he trumps Leinart.

leinerts numbers have gone down every year, quinns numbers have gone up every year, and yet leinert has "wowed" even though quinn had more yards, tds, and the same numer of ints? that does make me say wow

utahphinsfan
12-25-2005, 01:29 PM
Leinart has nothing to prove. That being said, I look forward to him tearing the Longhorns up and ceasing all this "he is overrated" crap.

I think the question you should have asked was "Is Vince Young overrated"....and my answer would be YES!

I agree on both points.

I had a feeling last year the SC would stomp a mud hole in OU and walk it dry. I believe they will do the same this year. After all, the Rose bowl is essentially a home game for USC.

kastofsna120
12-25-2005, 01:36 PM
every throw that is made has a chance for a TD doesn't it? the more pass attempts the more chances you have to throw for a TD. unless i am missing your point, leinert can only throw the ball for TD's if they are by the end zone? which would go back to the weak arm knock of leinert
no, the point is that they're not throwing to the endzone as much as they did under norm chow. and it's nothing against leinart, it's just that they have two first rounders in the backfield

the arm strength thing you say makes no sense, as most of his TDs are from deep out

saves
12-25-2005, 01:42 PM
leinerts numbers have gone down every year, quinns numbers have gone up every year, and yet leinert has "wowed" even though quinn had more yards, tds, and the same numer of ints? that does make me say wow

I'm not trying to be pro-Lenart here or anything, but he been the leader of the nations best team for a few years now and if thats not impressive I don't know what is. Comparing the two's stats is a horrible comparison, they both run different offenses with different strengths and players so their stats should be different.

aerokev
12-25-2005, 01:47 PM
no, the point is that they're not throwing to the endzone as much as they did under norm chow. and it's nothing against leinart, it's just that they have two first rounders in the backfield

the arm strength thing you say makes no sense, as most of his TDs are from deep out

i saw quite a few USC games, what do you mean by deep out? do you mean like less then 30 yards? i would guess that 90+ percent of leinerts TDs are from deep out of less than 30 yards. his longest TDs are probably dump offs to Bush. i don't consider most TD's being less than 30 yards a big arm either, but that is just me

aerokev
12-25-2005, 01:52 PM
I'm not trying to be pro-Lenart here or anything, but he been the leader of the nations best team for a few years now and if thats not impressive I don't know what is. Comparing the two's stats is a horrible comparison, they both run different offenses with different strengths and players so their stats should be different.

agreed, but if teams have to focus on the running game because of bush and white, you wooud assume that leinert's stats would have gone up rather than decline every year

bullseyeguy
12-25-2005, 01:57 PM
With all this talk of stats, I think a very important one is being left out...WINS! Whos got more of those over the last 3 years?

aerokev
12-25-2005, 02:02 PM
With all this talk of stats, I think a very important one is being left out...WINS! Whos got more of those over the last 3 years?

yes, that is the true indication of the best QB. all of the years when e. crouch, and D. weufferl, and j. white were leading their teams to national championships, and winning heisman trophys, that was the true sign they would make excellent starting quarterbacks:sidelol:

saves
12-25-2005, 02:05 PM
agreed, but if teams have to focus on the running game because of bush and white, you wooud assume that leinert's stats would have gone up rather than decline every year

But the opposite has happened. You have to expect the pass because USC has proven they can throw the ball, and White and Bush are just that good where teams can gear up for the run and still get pushed around. That is just one scary backfield. Remember the Fresno State game where Bush just absolutley took over, they don't even need to throw to come from behind, they just have that much faith in Bush, he is that good, and thats why he will likely be picked higher than Leinart.

Finfanforever
12-25-2005, 02:06 PM
I tried to get one of these Leinert lovers to watch your video and he didn't want to see the truth. Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it.:D

Well I did...so what? Even if his arm is stronger...his throwing mechanics and release points is CRAP by NFL standards. He throws stinking side-arm! If Young had Marino's legs (back in 1983) he wouldn't be drafted until the 4rd or 5th round. His ATHLETISM not his QUARTERBACKING skills will land him being selected in the top 10. He reminds me of Michael Vick. As an athlete Vick is AWESOME but as a pure QB he's AVERAGE at best. Athlete for athlete Young is head over hills better than Leinart. BUT...QB for QB Leinart has Young by just as big a margin. The Dolphins need a QB who just so happens to be an athlete...NOT an athlete who just so happens to play QB. I'd take both Leinart AND Cutler over Young.

aerokev
12-25-2005, 02:07 PM
i saw quite a few USC games, what do you mean by deep out? do you mean like less then 30 yards? i would guess that 90+ percent of leinerts TDs are from deep out of less than 30 yards. his longest TDs are probably dump offs to Bush. i don't consider most TD's being less than 30 yards a big arm either, but that is just me

i actually just did a quick check of the USC games, and i couldn't get the wash st game to come up, but out of all of the games (except wash st), leinert only had 1 TD over 30 yards, 67 yards to smith against hawaii. 15 were less than 20 yards. i sure would like to know where the way out TD throws start from?:confused:

aerokev
12-25-2005, 02:10 PM
But the opposite has happened. You have to expect the pass because USC has proven they can throw the ball, and White and Bush are just that good where teams can gear up for the run and still get pushed around. That is just one scary backfield. Remember the Fresno State game where Bush just absolutley took over, they don't even need to throw to come from behind, they just have that much faith in Bush, he is that good, and thats why he will likely be picked higher than Leinart.

he will get picked higher than leinert because most scouts and teams are convinced that bush is the real deal. there are a lot of teams that are not real big on leinerts arm strength. almost everyone thinks bush cannot miss in the NFL, not the case for leinert

bullseyeguy
12-25-2005, 02:13 PM
yes, that is the true indication of the best QB. all of the years when e. crouch, and D. weufferl, and j. white were leading their teams to national championships, and winning heisman trophys, that was the true sign they would make excellent starting quarterbacks:sidelol:
Hey, you are the one that seems to like bringing up stats so much, personally I think they dont have much to do with the end result. But if you are quoting stats I think you have to consider the only stat that really matters when you are playing a game...

Dont get me wrong, Im not "sold" pn Leinart, I think any QB coming out of college has a huge question mark. However I do think as fr as prospects go Leinart is one of the best in awhile.

aerokev
12-25-2005, 02:33 PM
Hey, you are the one that seems to like bringing up stats so much, personally I think they dont have much to do with the end result. But if you are quoting stats I think you have to consider the only stat that really matters when you are playing a game...

Dont get me wrong, Im not "sold" pn Leinart, I think any QB coming out of college has a huge question mark. However I do think as fr as prospects go Leinart is one of the best in awhile.

maybe the previous 2 years he was one of the top prospects, but he has declined over the last 2 years of college based on his stats. his lack of long TDs kind of back up his lack of arm strength. he had 1 TD over 29 yards this year. that is 1 TD out of 27 that went for more than 29 yards. he may be adequate, but he doesn't turn a pro franchise around when teams are not worried about him throwing the deep ball.

saves
12-25-2005, 02:34 PM
he will get picked higher than leinert because most scouts and teams are convinced that bush is the real deal. there are a lot of teams that are not real big on leinerts arm strength. almost everyone thinks bush cannot miss in the NFL, not the case for leinert

Yes but honestly, how many "can't miss prospects" are there in the college ranks. I can't think off too many prospects that didn't have their fair share of questions marks. Our fair Ricky was said to have too small of hands and would fumble too much. Ronnie was never the feature guy. Marino didn't have the best senior year and was said to be a drug user. These guys have all shown to be worth their first round pick (I know ronnie really hasn't yet, but who is complaining about the guy), but at the time they were a gamble. Even Bush has his doubters that say he is too small to be an everydown back.

Point is, yes he is a gamble, perhaps his college acheivments have been credited too much to his personal contribution to the team and not to the surrounding talent, or maybe he will end up having a hall of fame career and all his fellow teamates at USC will end up crediting him for all their success in college.
But is he a safe gamble? I'm not sure you'll find too many who will disagree that he has a better chance of success than last years number 1 overall pick, and there were a ton of people high on Smith last year, and being a better prospect that a number 1 overall is really saying something.

Crowda
12-25-2005, 02:35 PM
Vince is your next Vick...Leinart is your next Palmer/Manning.
Take your pick...

byroan
12-25-2005, 02:39 PM
that's the dumbest thing you've said yet

Nothing he said is right. He even said at one point Lineart should be more like him. :shakeno:

unifiedtheory
12-25-2005, 04:34 PM
Nothing he said is right. He even said at one point Lineart should be more like him. :shakeno:

:sidelol:...I wish I could find that thread!

unifiedtheory
12-25-2005, 04:35 PM
Happy Holiday everyone, merry x-mas or whatever you celebrate

Leinart doesnt impress me, the fact that he can hit wide open recievers and hand the ball to reggie bush doesnt impress me, if leinart is on texas they arnt undefeated, yet if vince plays for USC they are probally still undefeated

Leinarts arm isnt stronger than Vince's arm so whoever said that should be thrown out of the arguement for lack of knowlege, and Vince's footwork isnt bad at all, his feet are always moving in the pocket so he can avoid defenders and step up to deliver the ball

Give me a break on the schedule, because USC's only REAL game they should have worried about was notre dame and leinart sucked that game untill the very end, and to anyone who is gonna say vince sucked against ohio state should have watched leinart vs ND to see what sucking really is

and why are you going to punish vince for putting the ball right where the WR can make a play on it and the DB cant? Even when he doesnt hit his guys in stride he throws the ball in the right spot his accuracy may not be the best but its more than suitable for the NFL

Leinart has more questionmarks imo than young does

:spamkill:

unifiedtheory
12-25-2005, 04:39 PM
i saw quite a few USC games, what do you mean by deep out? do you mean like less then 30 yards? i would guess that 90+ percent of leinerts TDs are from deep out of less than 30 yards. his longest TDs are probably dump offs to Bush. i don't consider most TD's being less than 30 yards a big arm either, but that is just me

I don't think I've ever seen someone run a 30 yard out.

Leinart has professional arm strength. He can make every throw. Does he have a cannon? No, I never said he did. That being said, the best Q.B. in football (Tom Brady) does'nt have a cannon either. Nor does Peyton Manning.

I don't see where the arguement is comign from unless you've been reading Alex22's garbage...and he can't see the truth because of his mad boy love for Vince Young.

kastofsna120
12-26-2005, 01:08 AM
a cannon for an arm is very important. i.e. kyle boller, jeff george, gus frerotte, uh........nevermind

Jaj
12-26-2005, 01:14 AM
a cannon for an arm is very important. i.e. kyle boller, jeff george, gus frerotte, uh........nevermind

You don't need a cannon but you do need good arm strength. My problem with Leinart is his accuracy stats are inflated. Go back and see how many sensational catches his receivers had to make in the national title game.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 01:59 PM
if new orleans loses to the bucs this weekend (which seems like a pretty strong possibility considering the bucs need to win the game to sew up the division), the saints will wind up with either the 1st or 2nd pick of the draft, depending on the outcome of the texans/49ers game. if houston wins, then the saints get the top pick, followed by houston (OR green bay if they lose to seattle at home against a team that will probably be resting their starters most of the game). the niners have almost NO SHOT whatsoever at the top pick

so let's review some situations: if houston loses, they get the top pick period. if the saints lose, they get the #2 pick, followed by green bay, the jets, and then the niners (if all lose). there's a way that order can change, but it has to do with other teams winning/losing and affecting those 5 teams' SOS, but enough of that

if ALL 5 teams end up 3-13, here's the top 5:

1 - new orleans
2 - green bay
3 - new york jets
4 - houston
5 - san francisco

funny how the "reggie bush bowl" could end up with both teams having no shot at all at bush

obviously it can all change depending on the SOS, but whatever

Prime
12-29-2005, 02:07 PM
Well he def will have some talent around him with a good running game and Horn as his WR. I guess that means that Brooks will be in the market for a trade then.

Caps
12-29-2005, 02:12 PM
You think Leinart would have rather gone to the Niners last year and have a paycheck under his belt, or get drafted by the NFL's equivalent of the movie Planes, Trains, and Automobiles? Stupid decision he made.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 02:14 PM
well i wouldn't be surprised if he eli mannings it and decides not to play for an organization in shambles like the saints. so expect a trade for either leinart himself or for the top pick

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 02:16 PM
You think Leinart would have rather gone to the Niners last year and have a paycheck under his belt, or get drafted by the NFL's equivalent of the movie Planes, Trains, and Automobiles? Stupid decision he made.
i doubt the niners had anything to do with his decision

Alex44
12-29-2005, 02:17 PM
well i wouldn't be surprised if he eli mannings it and decides not to play for an organization in shambles like the saints. so expect a trade for either leinart himself or for the top pick


I hate when players do that, you play for who drafts you, you dont decide where you play, how can we have equality in the league when players refuse to be drafted by a team

ether79
12-29-2005, 02:20 PM
well i wouldn't be surprised if he eli mannings it and decides not to play for an organization in shambles like the saints. so expect a trade for either leinart himself or for the top pick

That would make more sense than him playing for the Saints. But then you can get into the speculation of moving the Saints to L.A. in the near future where the leading coaching candidate would be Carroll. Thats way out there I know but ahh I'm bored today.

Caps
12-29-2005, 02:22 PM
i doubt the niners had anything to do with his decision

I'm not saying it did. Just saying he should have left and been the #1 pick to a stable team with rich history instead of taking his chances, which turns out to be going to a team with no history, no coach, and no home, for less money.

ether79
12-29-2005, 02:23 PM
I'm not saying it did. Just saying he should have left and been the #1 pick to a stable team with rich history instead of taking his chances, which turns out to be going to a team with no history, no coach, and no home, for less money.
If he went #1 to the Saints he would get more money than he would've last year as the #1 pick.