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4evaFinz
01-04-2006, 02:43 PM
I remember there being a little week or two span during the season when Saban had been talking about an athletic QB. I understand that Mueller also hs a late draft QB philosophy. Well does anyone think we may go after Reggie McNeal. I know he is a Mike Vick-esque type of QB. There are also alot of question marks on him (accuracy, smarts, etc.). But the kid has a cannon, and some wheel to go with it. Opens up our deep game, takes pressure off of the o-line, and if we can get some QB coaching the kid just might be able to make it in the NFL. Think we go after him late in day one, or in day two as a project QB?

Alex44
01-04-2006, 02:45 PM
Athletic doesnt mean you can run a 4.3

It means you can buy time in the pocket, scramble when needed and make all the throws

Remember that

Unless its Vince Young id rather have a pockett passer this year than a project

4evaFinz
01-04-2006, 02:47 PM
Athletic doesnt mean you can run a 4.3

It means you can buy time in the pocket, scramble when needed and make all the throws

Remember that

Unless its Vince Young id rather have a pockett passer this year than a project

You can't question his ability to move in the pocket, he is more than a 4.3. The issue is if he can make the play through the air when he makes time to throw.

BennyVW
01-04-2006, 02:52 PM
Any QB we get will be a project. Especially cause they wont see any real playing time till 2007...

Alex44
01-04-2006, 02:53 PM
You can't question his ability to move in the pocket, he is more than a 4.3. The issue is if he can make the play through the air when he makes time to throw.

exactly, the point is a scrambleing QB who has questionable passing ability and bad decisions cant be good just because of speed, Athleticism has almost nothing to do with speed at all is my point

Jaj
01-04-2006, 02:55 PM
Usually they coincide, but not always that's true. However, McNeal's accuracy is terrible quite frankly and we need someone who can hit above 57% atleast in college.

4evaFinz
01-04-2006, 02:58 PM
exactly, the point is a scrambleing QB who has questionable passing ability and bad decisions cant be good just because of speed, Athleticism has almost nothing to do with speed at all is my point

I don't understand your arguement. Are you saying an athletic QB is an athletic QB because he can throw the ball? Some can, but those aren't the traits that make them athletic QBs. What does Vick have that Manning doesn't? Speed, Agility, Acceleration, etc. All things McNeal has. He is more than speed, he has all the attributes that make a QB, an athletic QB. The question is can he build the traits that make him an effective QB? I think with the right coaching he can. Plus he has a natural arm. Accuracy and decision making are the things he needs to work on. But really 90% of QBs coming from college have to work on those, it is just he has more work to do. With the right work ethic, and good coaching he could be a great QB. But can we offer that, and he can he offer the will?


Usually they coincide, but not always that's true. However, McNeal's accuracy is terrible quite frankly and we need someone who can hit above 57% atleast in college.

Exactly my concern. But is it correctable? The idea of a late pick is not to get someone you expect to start from the beginning. But rather someone you hope you can develop. So can we develop him?

Jaj
01-04-2006, 03:06 PM
I don't understand your arguement. Are you saying an athletic QB is an athletic QB because he can throw the ball? Some can, but those aren't the traits that make them athletic QBs. What does Vick have that Manning doesn't? Speed, Agility, Acceleration, etc. All things McNeal has. He is more than speed, he has all the attributes that make a QB, an athletic QB. The question is can he build the traits that make him an effective QB? I think with the right coaching he can. Plus he has a natural arm. Accuracy and decision making are the things he needs to work on. But really 90% of QBs coming from college have to work on those, it is just he has more work to do. With the right work ethic, and good coaching he could be a great QB. But can we offer that, and he can he offer the will?



Exactly my concern. But is it correctable? The idea of a late pick is not to get someone you expect to start from the beginning. But rather someone you hope you can develop. So can we develop him?

Reading defenses and the flow of being a quarterback doesn't come from coaching very often. Some have it some don't...

NawlinsBucFan
01-04-2006, 03:09 PM
I remember there being a little week or two span during the season when Saban had been talking about an athletic QB. I understand that Mueller also hs a late draft QB philosophy. Well does anyone think we may go after Reggie McNeal. I know he is a Mike Vick-esque type of QB. There are also alot of question marks on him (accuracy, smarts, etc.). But the kid has a cannon, and some wheel to go with it. Opens up our deep game, takes pressure off of the o-line, and if we can get some QB coaching the kid just might be able to make it in the NFL. Think we go after him late in day one, or in day two as a project QB?

Mike Vick-esque is not the best way to sell a player IMHO. What Vick qualities makes you want a QB like him?
Inacurate-esque?
Soft-esque?
Can't win big games-esque?
Quitter-esque?
Heartless-esque?
Will always be talked about in terms of potential not performance-esque?

Vick is the last QB you want to pattern yourself after if there are a lot of fast, hard hitting LBs and Safties in your division.

Not to rain on your parade or anything. I'm just sayin'.

Zeke0123
01-04-2006, 03:29 PM
Mike Vick-esque is not the best way to sell a player IMHO. What Vick qualities makes you want a QB like him?
Inacurate-esque?
Soft-esque?
Can't win big games-esque?
Quitter-esque?
Heartless-esque?
Will always be talked about in terms of potential not performance-esque?

Vick is the last QB you want to pattern yourself after if there are a lot of fast, hard hitting LBs and Safties in your division.

Not to rain on your parade or anything. I'm just sayin'.I would take Vick-esque over frerotte-esque but of course would rather have Brady-esque.

finsnchips
01-04-2006, 03:57 PM
having seen their performances in the bowl games... Troy Smith and Michael Robinson are intriguing prospects, as well as Brad Smith.

Any love for these guys?

ether79
01-04-2006, 03:59 PM
having seen their performances in the bowl games... Troy Smith and Michael Robinson are intriguing prospects, as well as Brad Smith.

Any love for these guys?

Robinson will probably be converted to WR. Smith might also be converted.

finsnchips
01-04-2006, 04:01 PM
I should have put projects rather than prospects. Of the three I prefer Troy Smith, he impressed against Notre Dame.

kastofsna120
01-04-2006, 04:02 PM
frerotte is about the extent of athleticism they desire

ether79
01-04-2006, 04:03 PM
I should have put projects rather than prospects. Of the three I prefer Troy Smith, he impressed against Notre Dame.

He definitely had a great game, showed unbelievable poise. He will stay for his senior year though.

ether79
01-04-2006, 04:04 PM
frerotte is about the extent of athleticism they desire

I would agree to to an extent. That is all the athleticism you need to run this offense.

kastofsna120
01-04-2006, 04:05 PM
i'd say cutler is a perfect fit for the offense

ether79
01-04-2006, 04:06 PM
i'd say cutler is a perfect fit for the offense

Exactly.

4evaFinz
01-04-2006, 05:19 PM
I would agree to to an extent. That is all the athleticism you need to run this offense.


i'd say cutler is a perfect fit for the offense

Do we keep on running the same type of offense if Linehan leaves?

ether79
01-04-2006, 05:20 PM
Do we keep on running the same type of offense if Linehan leaves?

Some form of it I would expect. Saban likes that attacking style and would probably keep some derivative of it.

BALLS DEEP
01-06-2006, 09:29 AM
Does anyone know anything about Reggie McNeal? Texas A&M QB? 6'2 runs a 4.35 fourty? Nfldraft countdown has him listed at the 5th best QB.

Hostile 17
01-06-2006, 11:51 AM
Funny. I just replied in another thread that he'd make the best stealth pick in the draft if we convinced him during the combine to switch to WR. Then we'd promise him our selection in the 3rd round.

If he is anything like other QBs who became WRs in the pros, he could become the next Hines Ward -- with Randel El speed.

FinaticalOne
01-06-2006, 12:11 PM
Funny. I just replied in another thread that he'd make the best stealth pick in the draft if we convinced him during the combine to switch to WR. Then we'd promise him our selection in the 3rd round.

If he is anything like other QBs who became WRs in the pros, he could become the next Hines Ward -- with Randel El speed.

Could be, but that's only if he has good hands.

Hostile 17
01-06-2006, 12:21 PM
Could be, but that's only if he has good hands.True that. He'd have to be worked out at the combine with the other WRs before we promised that selection. We'd also have to work him out to see how he might fare getting off the line of scrimmage against DBs at the next level. That's been the knock on more than one QB-to-WR switch.

However, I am intrigued by the way many of these former college QBs become very good receivers in the league. Their knowledge of route-running and how to adjust to the ball is intrinsic to success at the WR position. Success stories have included Hines Ward, Drew Bennett and Matt Jones. All three have great hands.

ckparrothead
01-06-2006, 12:51 PM
He was invited to attend the Senior Bowl as a wide receiver. He refused...

Hostile 17
01-06-2006, 02:15 PM
He was invited to attend the Senior Bowl as a wide receiver. He refused...Give him time. Some guys just need to come to terms...

From his QB draft evaluation:


Reggie McNeal Texas A&M 6-2 209 4.35
***Strengths:
An amazing athlete with rare speed for any position let alone quarterback...Has a great arm and quick release...Can move outside the pocket and throw on the run...Has about a 2-to-1 TD / INT ratio the past couple of seasons...Very tough...Shows flashes of brilliance...The type of running threat that keeps defenders up at night...Has a lot of tools to work with and some major upside.

Weaknesses:
Very erratic as a passer...Struggles to read defenses...Makes bad decisions under pressure...Leadership abilities have been questioned...Stares down his intended targets...Despite his speed he is no Michael Vick when it comes to moves...Is not very tall and gets too many passes knocked down at the line...Is too cautious and worried about making the big mistake...Raw overall and will need development.

Notes:
May have to make a position change since he is a much better athlete than quarterback...Did not have the huge senior season everyone was expecting...Will more than likely get an opportunity to be a pro signal caller and in a worst-case scenario could move to wide receiver...An interesting prospect to say the least.

Doesn't sound like anybody who'd go in the first day of the draft, and certainly may not get drafted altogether if he refuses to switch positions.

ckparrothead
01-06-2006, 02:36 PM
Give him time. Some guys just need to come to terms...

From his QB draft evaluation:


Doesn't sound like anybody who'd go in the first day of the draft, and certainly may not get drafted altogether if he refuses to switch positions.

Someone might take a shot later in the draft and see what he can learn from a good QB coach. He'll probably have to make the move to WR, but I just think he's going to want a shot at QB first before he agrees to it.

Frank B
01-19-2006, 02:42 PM
Is there anyone out there with an informed opinion on Reggie McNeal? I saw him play 2 or 3 games as a junior, but I didn't catch any of his games this year before he got hurt.

I know he has the measurables...height, size, arm strength, but I don't know anything about his development as a passer. I also know that his development might have been stunted by having 3 or 4 different offenses to learn during his career.

If it came down to the 5th or 6th round, or even as a free agent, would McNeal be worth a look as a developmental project?

Hostile 17
01-19-2006, 03:08 PM
From his QB draft evaluation:


Reggie McNeal Texas A&M 6-2 209 4.35
***Strengths:
An amazing athlete with rare speed for any position let alone quarterback...Has a great arm and quick release...Can move outside the pocket and throw on the run...Has about a 2-to-1 TD / INT ratio the past couple of seasons...Very tough...Shows flashes of brilliance...The type of running threat that keeps defenders up at night...Has a lot of tools to work with and some major upside.

Weaknesses:
Very erratic as a passer...Struggles to read defenses...Makes bad decisions under pressure...Leadership abilities have been questioned...Stares down his intended targets...Despite his speed he is no Michael Vick when it comes to moves...Is not very tall and gets too many passes knocked down at the line...Is too cautious and worried about making the big mistake...Raw overall and will need development.

Notes:
May have to make a position change since he is a much better athlete than quarterback...Did not have the huge senior season everyone was expecting...Will more than likely get an opportunity to be a pro signal caller and in a worst-case scenario could move to wide receiver...An interesting prospect to say the least.

Doesn't sound like anybody who'd go in the first day of the draft, and certainly may not get drafted altogether if he refuses to switch positions.

I replied in another thread that he'd make the best stealth pick in the draft if we convinced him during the combine to switch to WR. Then we'd promise him our selection in the 3rd round.

If he is anything like other QBs who became WRs in the pros, he could become the next Hines Ward -- with Randel El speed. However, I am intrigued by the way many of these former college QBs become very good receivers in the league. Their knowledge of route-running and how to adjust to the ball is intrinsic to success at the WR position. Success stories have included Hines Ward, Drew Bennett and Matt Jones. All three have great hands.

6-2 and 209, and runs a 4.35? He could be a Hines Ward with Randy Moss speed! Perhaps THE stealth pick of the draft.

sports24/7
01-19-2006, 03:28 PM
I don't have an informed decision on him, but in a chat Mel Kiper said he might get a shot at QB in the later rounds, but has a good chance of switching positions in the NFL.

ChrisKo
01-19-2006, 04:32 PM
I'm going to the Shrine game this weekend and Reggie is going ot be a QB in the game. I'll leave my feedback in this forum after the game this weekend. I plan to watch Pinegar and Drew Olsen as well. I'm also going to keep my eye out on a couple of CBs.

Here's the rosters: Shrine Game Rosters (http://www.shrinegame.com/rosters.php)

ckparrothead
01-19-2006, 04:35 PM
Strengths: One of the elite dual-threat QB prospects in college football. Possesses explosive athleticism. Has great quickness in his drop and feet inside the pocket. Will feel the pocket collapsing around him and can get out of danger in a hurry. He has quick feet and exceptional speed. He is a huge threat to run. Buys a lot of second-chance passing opportunities. Is elusive and has very good vision and COD skills as a runner. Shows a second-gear in the open field. He is effective when throwing on the run. Seems to be at his best when creating after the initial play breaks down. He has outstanding arm strength. Can drive the ball downfield in the vertical passing game. He shows the ability to fit the ball into tight spots. Gets great zip on his deep out route. Shows the ability to throw across his body and on the run  to both sides. His accuracy has improved greatly. He has cut down on his mental lapses and is doing a much better job of protecting the football. He won't force many throws into coverage. Has an exceptional TD to INT ratio. Is a tough, competitive QB and the type of player that demands respect from his teammates. A hard worker on and off the field.

Weaknesses: Lacks ideal size. Is on the shorter side and has poor bulk. He takes a lot of hits as a runner. Needs to learn to slide more often and to better protect his body. He has had some durability issues in the past and he's an injury waiting to happen. He can be too impatient as a pocket passer. Takes off and runs too early at times. He doesn't always seem to see the entire field. Has had some trouble in the past protecting the football. Lacks ideal quickness in his release. His mechanics need to be more consistent as a passer. Doesn't show enough touch as a passer. Has some trouble in terms of leading his receivers and letting them run after the catch. He also struggles to change velocity at times. He has some trouble finding passing windows and will have some passes batted down. Still has room to improve in terms of reading coverages in his drops. Needs to make quicker reads and do a more consistent job of beating the blitz with his arm, rather than almost always with his legs.

Overall: McNeal played mostly a backup role as a freshman in 2002 before emerging as a fulltime starter as a sophomore. He started 11 of the 12 games he played in 2003, completing 113-of-221 passes for 1,782 yards with 8 touchdown and 7 interceptions. As a fulltime starter in his junior season in 2004, McNeal passed for 2,791 yards and 14 touchdowns on 200-of-344 passing, while rushing for 718 yards and eight touchdowns on 151 carries. McNeal is one of the most dangerous dual-threat quarterbacks in the nation. He lacks ideal size and he still has a lot of work to do in terms of his mechanics, recognition skills and consistency as a pocket passer. He also takes a lot of hits and needs to protect his body better. However, McNeal's ability to beat you with his legs and his arm makes him tremendously difficult to defend against. He may never emerge as a solid staring quarterback in the NFL, but McNeal could develop into a playmaking backup with the potential to also contribute as a situational wide receiver, return specialist and in other areas of special teams. Regardless, McNeal has a legitimate chance to come off the 2006 draft board late on Day 1.

They say he runs a 4.31 in the 40. I hate to say it but he sounds like a taller Mike Vick. Vick was a #1 overall pick, this guy is a late Day 1/early Day 2 possibility. Pretty good value in that if you ask me.

ckparrothead
01-19-2006, 04:36 PM
I'm going to the Shrine game this weekend and Reggie is going ot be a QB in the game. I'll leave my feedback in this forum after the game this weekend. I plan to watch Pinegar and Drew Olsen as well. I'm also going to keep my eye out on a couple of CBs.

Here's the rosters: Shrine Game Rosters (http://www.shrinegame.com/rosters.php)

Reggie has not looked very good so far in Shrine practices...and those are deemed more important by scouts than the Shrine game itself, where I wouldn't be surprised to see McNeal's legs bail him out considerably.

ChrisKo
01-19-2006, 05:02 PM
Reggie has not looked very good so far in Shrine practices...and those are deemed more important by scouts than the Shrine game itself, where I wouldn't be surprised to see McNeal's legs bail him out considerably.

But unfortunately, my job doesn't allow me to make it to the stadiums to watch the practices. If only I was a paid scout, then again, I'm not sure I want a job that pays that little. :lol:

Awsi Dooger
01-19-2006, 08:56 PM
I saw him plenty in college. He looked best as a freshman, especially the signature game of stunning Oklahoma late in the year when the Sooners were thinking national title. McNeal kept arching perfect deep passes for clutch big gains and TDs every time Oklahoma threatened to take the lead.

He is a good but not great runner, not the type who will put several moves together and wow you with instincts and change of pace to elude defenders. Late in his career the development at QB stalled, if not regressed, when he was stuck in the shotgun and asked to run a zone read type offense like Vince Young at Texas. That's where you're reading the defensive front seven first, particularly the DE away from the direction of the run, and not reading the secondary, so it's hardly the ideal formation to breed NFL QBs. It actually wasn't identical to the Texas attack because A&M ran plenty of pure option to the corner out of the shotgun, with Reggie generally preferring to keep the ball rather than pitch.

I think Reggie deserves a shot at QB and I'll be interested to see how he performs this weekend.

my 2 cents
01-19-2006, 09:33 PM
I read in the San Antonio paper he looked very good early in the week...???????


Reggie has not looked very good so far in Shrine practices...and those are deemed more important by scouts than the Shrine game itself, where I wouldn't be surprised to see McNeal's legs bail him out considerably.

sports24/7
01-20-2006, 12:06 AM
Reggie has not looked very good so far in Shrine practices...and those are deemed more important by scouts than the Shrine game itself, where I wouldn't be surprised to see McNeal's legs bail him out considerably.
where did you get the information about the shrine practices. How have the other QBs like Gradkowski and Pinegar looked?

Boik14
01-20-2006, 01:47 AM
I saw him plenty in college. He looked best as a freshman, especially the signature game of stunning Oklahoma late in the year when the Sooners were thinking national title. McNeal kept arching perfect deep passes for clutch big gains and TDs every time Oklahoma threatened to take the lead.

He is a good but not great runner, not the type who will put several moves together and wow you with instincts and change of pace to elude defenders. Late in his career the development at QB stalled, if not regressed, when he was stuck in the shotgun and asked to run a zone read type offense like Vince Young at Texas. That's where you're reading the defensive front seven first, particularly the DE away from the direction of the run, and not reading the secondary, so it's hardly the ideal formation to breed NFL QBs. It actually wasn't identical to the Texas attack because A&M ran plenty of pure option to the corner out of the shotgun, with Reggie generally preferring to keep the ball rather than pitch.

I think Reggie deserves a shot at QB and I'll be interested to see how he performs this weekend. I agree on all counts.

I especially agree that a zone read offense is one of the worst offenses for a college qb to play in cause it really does nothing that you can translate to the pro's. Thats one of the reasons many players who come from zone read offenses have trouble reading defenses; cause theyre looking at 1 player or parts of the D instead of at the entire defense presented to them.

Reggie's the type of player you take a day 2 flier on in rd 4 or 5 and if it pans out, great, if it doesnt than you really havent invested that much into him.