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ckparrothead
12-30-2005, 01:50 AM
I was REALLY psyched to get a look at Haloti Ngata tonight during the Oregon-Oklahoma game and I just have to say, I'm very disappointed.

Ngata is big. Very big. Not fat, but big. We get that. Supposedly he runs fast in the 40 but trust me when I said he by no means looked like it.

Here are the main points I did not like.

1. He's got NO pass rush. None. Whatsoever. Nada. Zero. Can't penetrate. Larry Chester incarnate.

2. He ties up two blockers but those two blockers can handle him and redirect him. And, toward the second half, he was getting blocked well in SINGLE blocks by Chris Chester.

3. When he gets turned around, he GIVES UP. Just doesn't even continue the play. There's no fight in him whatsoever. He is a LAZY player. He never pushes his position or hustles toward the ball.

4. He was without a doubt the slowest defensive lineman off the ball on the Oregon Ducks defensive line. You could watch each snap and you'd see all three other linemen punch forward quicker than Ngata. THEY got pass rush. THEY penetrated the lanes in run blocking. Ngata only did so when single blocked, and usually ended up falling for a trap block of some sort.

5. At 6'5" he has trouble getting underneath the pads of the offensive linemen that are blocking him...from the nose position. He played pretty much the same position all night that he'd play in Miami's D, and let me tell you in comparing him with Keith Traylor, there's NO comparison. You would think Ngata could look even more dominant there since he's just going against college players where Traylor goes against pros. Not so. When he played traditional nose, straight over the Center's grill, he got handled for the most part. When he played off-nose, like he would in our D, he did ok at times, usually took up a double on run blocking. When he took the 2-tech though, is when he penetrated more against a single guard but was usually susceptible to traps and geting turned around. In other words, in the Pros I think I would project him as a 2-tech guy, not a fit for our defense. Maybe a fit for our OLD defense. At his height if he's going to play nose he'd have to be able to penetrate like Manny Wright can. He can't. And, you can't play 3-tech if you're a crappy pass rusher.

Overall I have to say I walked into this game thinking one thing, and walked out thinking a completely different thing. Ngata seemed lazy, wasn't around the ball, wasn't penetrating or disrupting the pass or the run...only times he made plays were when Peterson came right at him. When I heard about his athleticism I had in mind this Warren Sapp type guy who could penetrate the pocket but he can't do that. He's no Warren Sapp by a long shot.

The most messed up part? Adrian Peterson started getting back on track in the second half while Ngata was in right. The OL started beating down the DL and they scored two TDs. Then Ngata gets injured and sits out the rest of the game...and I swear to god, his replacement was more high-energy (like the rest of the Oregon DL) and they actually started getting a better charge against the run WITHOUT Ngata in the game. They stopped Peterson when they had to and got it to where they basically could have won the game had they not been fielding a Leaf at quarterback (raise your hand if you didn't see that last minute game-losing interception coming from a Leaf in San Diego...I mean, come on).

Overall I'm very down on Haloti after this game. It isn't just a bad game. He was giving up on plays. No hustle. Lazy. I never want to see that even if you're not feeling April Fresh today.

Am I saying he's no longer a first round pick? No. You have to keep in mind the freak factor. He's a freak by the numbers. A freak by the numbers who gets lazy can always end up having a coach rip the mickey out of him and stomp that laziness out of him through good old fashioned butt whupping and conditioning. Or, he can end up being the same player. You don't know. Shawne Merriman disappeared on film a lot too. But right now, I'm not sure I take Ngata with the 15th pick. I might try and concentrate on people that could help us in other positions...like Michael Huff, Laron Landry, Chad Greenway, Demeco Ryans, maybe one of the OTs, of course Jay Cutler (or even Vince Young)...and quite possibly Claude Wroten.

Dr.Rad
12-30-2005, 01:54 AM
Nice post... I think Oregon as a whole looked disinterested to be there.

FuturePhin
12-30-2005, 02:03 AM
We dont really need a DT imo anyway with are two young guys coming in next year. We for sure dont need any LAZY players. Imagine what he'll be like when he's gettin paid top dollar. Another problem thats what it'll be.

ckparrothead
12-30-2005, 02:07 AM
We dont really need a DT imo anyway with are two young guys coming in next year. We for sure dont need any LAZY players. Imagine what he'll be like when he's gettin paid top dollar. Another problem thats what it'll be.

I'm sure Saban could motivate him not to be so lazy but the question is, for a top 15 guy, do you want to be having to do that? I know Greenway might not fall to us, but I'd rather draft a guy who has the mentality Saban adores.

SackArtist
12-30-2005, 02:07 AM
Because of how he played in tonights game I think he has a real shot at falling to us. Although Ngata didn't impress me, I think that if he has any work ethic whatsoever he can become a very good player. He has one thing you can't teach.....SIZE! He's 6'5 350 lbs :eek: and has good speed for his size. I don't think he's an every down player (no need to put him in on 3rd and long) but with that said, I wouldn't mind if we draft him in round 1 because we still need some youth on the d-line.

FinNasty
12-30-2005, 02:09 AM
CK... you think he was injured? I didnt see alot of the game, I was payin attention to the Heat-Pistons game...

I agree with you that he was unimpressive (the parts that I saw, I was switching to that game from the Heat game just to watch Ngata)... but from all I have heard about him, I cant believe that tonight was the norm.

I know I havent got to see this kid play alot, but the guy I saw tonight, and the guy that I have read about in many scouting reports seemed like 2 completely different people... I think he had to be hurt, or sick, or something...

SackArtist
12-30-2005, 02:11 AM
BTW, any Oregon fans out there that watch him play alot? What do you guys think of him? Was this just a bad game for him or does he usually play like that.

PhinSoldia
12-30-2005, 02:12 AM
there have been reports about his work ethic before and its been whispers here and there about him being lazy...this is not the first time...if he doesnt step it up he is looking at the second or worse third round

MrClean
12-30-2005, 02:12 AM
I think you hit with the "freak factor" part of it. What George Young used to call The Planet Theory. He'll be selected before we pick, in MY opinion, based on his physical package and potential to be great. Another thing that has been getting so many scouts to focus on him has been the success of the last king sized DL out of Oregon, Igor Olshansky, who has started from the get go for the Chargers.

FuturePhin
12-30-2005, 02:14 AM
I'm sure Saban could motivate him not to be so lazy but the question is, for a top 15 guy, do you want to be having to do that? I know Greenway might not fall to us, but I'd rather draft a guy who has the mentality Saban adores.


If he loved the game, nothing would have to motivate him. Saban works wonders with people, yes, but heart has got to be questioned UNLESS he was sick, hurt, etc. If he doesnt have the heart why draft him? He could just say heck with it like D. Underwood.

djfresh47
12-30-2005, 02:15 AM
Nice post... I think Oregon as a whole looked disinterested to be there.

Kinda like Cal did vs Tech last year after they were left out of the BCS. I really didn't concentrate on the line play, but Rhett Bomar and Peterson could end up being a great Qb/Rb combo at Oklahoma, if Bomar can ever find a way to avoid the big hit, and Peterson stays healthy. Clemens has been hurt for a bit for Oregon I believe, and if he's healthy I think they blow Oklahoma out, and should be a BCS team.

FuturePhin
12-30-2005, 02:16 AM
Because of how he played in tonights game I think he has a real shot at falling to us. Although Ngata didn't impress me, I think that if he has any work ethic whatsoever he can become a very good player. He has one thing you can't teach.....SIZE! He's 6'5 350 lbs :eek: and has good speed for his size. I don't think he's an every down player (no need to put him in on 3rd and long) but with that said, I wouldn't mind if we draft him in round 1 because we still need some youth on the d-line.


Why would you waste the #15 pick on somebody who wont play every down? Were not talking about a 2nd on down pick, this is supose to be a piece of our foundation. We cant afford to blow picks.

SackArtist
12-30-2005, 02:16 AM
Oregon only gave up 8 yards on 8 carries to Adrian Peterson in the first half. I can't remember what part of the 2nd half Ngata was injured but Peterson ran wild in the 2nd half.

dominizzo
12-30-2005, 02:20 AM
HAloti Ngata will proabably be like Antaaj Hawthorne But U never know or he can be the next Sam Adams

FinNasty
12-30-2005, 02:26 AM
there have been reports about his work ethic before and its been whispers here and there about him being lazy...this is not the first time...if he doesnt step it up he is looking at the second or worse third round

oh man! while I am now not so high on taking him in the first... if this beast slipped to us in the middle of the 2nd... run to the freakin draft booth and turn in the card with his name on it as fast as you can! :eek:

SackArtist
12-30-2005, 02:28 AM
Why would you waste the #15 pick on somebody who wont play every down? Were not talking about a 2nd on down pick, this is supose to be a piece of our foundation. We cant afford to blow picks.

I haven't watched enough of him to say he's not an every down guy, but at his massive size I think that's pretty tough to do. But even if he's not an every down player it's still a great advantage to have a hog like him in the middle of your defense. He's the prototype nose tackle. There is not one lineman that can push him backwards to create room for runningbacks. Opposing teams would have a very hard time running on us with Ngata. It's not important for a guy like him to get sacks, it's important for him to stop the run and create 3rd and long situations.

Alex44
12-30-2005, 02:35 AM
Kinda like Cal did vs Tech last year after they were left out of the BCS. I really didn't concentrate on the line play, but Rhett Bomar and Peterson could end up being a great Qb/Rb combo at Oklahoma, if Bomar can ever find a way to avoid the big hit, and Peterson stays healthy. Clemens has been hurt for a bit for Oregon I believe, and if he's healthy I think they blow Oklahoma out, and should be a BCS team.


watch out for oklahoma to be in the top 15 at least next year

Im telling you all this now if I had a pick between Adrian Peterson and Reggie Bush Id take Peterson hands down

Ngata was very very unimpressive I only heard his name called once making a tackle, I didnt even realize he was there half the time, It sucks that Clemens couldnt play but truthfully Oregon should have won regardless

NaboCane
12-30-2005, 02:58 AM
There has to be something wrong with the guy, he's a monster when he's healthy; a guy that gets push into the backfield as well as disrupting the running game.

We'll see what happens at the combine.

Anyway, with his measurables and strength, combined with his immense bone structure you've got to figure that he can be coached to his best game. After all, look at Manny Wright; no one wanted him until the 5th round, and his beginning here was as rough as any I've seen. Yet now we're talking about him as being a significant part of the team for a long time.

I think Saban would see something in Ngata that didn't show up in this bowl game (unfortunately).

vinivedivichi
12-30-2005, 03:03 AM
I only saw a handful of plays in the game, but he imressed me in the ones I saw.

One play in particular he was on the backside of a stretch running play and he totally blew the play up by pushing to his way to the runner.

AirFishOne
12-30-2005, 03:56 AM
:d :d :d :d :d :d :d

Boomer Sooner

Alex44
12-30-2005, 05:10 AM
I think Saban would see something in Ngata that didn't show up in this bowl game (unfortunately).

Maybe its fortunate

If he is a great player but his stock drops and we snag him thats good

ChambersWI
12-30-2005, 05:15 AM
you've got to remember Ngata was double teamed all night.

I mean, Ngata is a consensus first team all-american, and the only defensive lineman on Oregon worth mentioning.

I saw him fight through a couple of double teams and hit Peterson in the backfield.

DT is the hardest position to jduge. Ngata plugs holes and gets penetration a lot, but you've also got to look at other factors. The fact that they double teamed all night shows me he had an impact on the game (if you think AP would run up the middle like he did late had Ngata not been double teamed, your dead wrong)

ckparrothead
12-30-2005, 11:45 AM
You know, I don't even know why I try anymore. I try to upgrade the content in the main forum from the usual drivel and garbage, and when I do, my thread gets moved elsewhere.

Haloti Ngata is a guy that was projected for Nick Saban to draft. In the post I conclude that Ngata would probably not fit Saban's system.

Thank you for deliberately watering down the main forum by moving threads that don't have mindless banter about "Hey how do you guys feel about Channing Crowder? I like him!!" Way to go. Really doing a great job there.

kastofsna120
12-30-2005, 11:55 AM
yeah this thread does seem of VIP-quality, which is probably why the mods were scared to keep it in the inferior forum

LIQUID24
12-30-2005, 11:59 AM
Great post CK. It's EXACTLY what I've been saying all along.

BTW, this was not an "off night" for Ngata at all. This was very much a typical, normal game for him. He's good for a few nice plays a game, the rest of the time he's invisible.


"He's nasty"

"He's going to revolutinize the position"

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Dude is soft, plain and simple.

kastofsna120
12-30-2005, 12:03 PM
well the good thing is that his poor performance last night won't affect his draft stock AT ALL


he might as well just stick around for another year

ckparrothead
12-30-2005, 12:20 PM
you've got to remember Ngata was double teamed all night.

I mean, Ngata is a consensus first team all-american, and the only defensive lineman on Oregon worth mentioning.

I saw him fight through a couple of double teams and hit Peterson in the backfield.

DT is the hardest position to jduge. Ngata plugs holes and gets penetration a lot, but you've also got to look at other factors. The fact that they double teamed all night shows me he had an impact on the game (if you think AP would run up the middle like he did late had Ngata not been double teamed, your dead wrong)

I didn't see double-teams ALL NIGHT at all. I focused on Ngata on every play. At first he was double-teamed. By virtue of the position he plays, he would be double-teamed in the NFL. The standard of a good NT in the NFL is not simply getting double-teamed. You have to have success against the double team as well. He was getting HANDLED by the double team. And guess what, in the second half, they stopped double-teaming him so much, and that is when their ground game started hitting on all cylinders...when they started single-blocking Ngata which left another lineman free to pave some creases for Peterson.

Sometimes Ngata made them pay for the single blocks. Most of the plays brought up in this thread were occasions like that. But, he really only made them pay for the single block I would estimate three times (his two tackles, plus like one other time where he disrupted the play). The rest of the time, Peterson was busting loose and the Sooners were scoring two 3rd-quarter touchdowns. Then the interesting part is when Ngata left the game, Peterson had a few more decent runs, but all in all that is when the Oregon D started STOPPING the Sooners offense and giving their own offense a chance to win the game.

What was alarmingly apparent to me is that the only service that Ngata does for the Oregon DL is take up two blockers which affords their other talented DL men to dominate. But, when the Sooners figured this out and started blocking Ngata with just Chris Chester, Ngata didn't present himself as a serious enough threat to force the Sooners to go back to the double-team. It's like a guy who tries to rob a store with his hand in his pocket like its a gun and he's got everyone scared until someone gets brave enough to knock the robber's hand out of his pocket and they all discover that he doesn't really have a gun there.

I was alarmed by Ngata. He's not a finished product at all. He's got potential because of that "Planet Theory" but right now, I think Manuel Wright in his limited playing time has shown that he's a more valuable DL than Ngata so I have to wonder if it would be worth drafting him #15.

Here's one thing that is both inexcusable and undeniable. Ngata was almost always the last defensive lineman to engage the offensive line on any given snap. No first step worthy of note whatsoever. Even if your job is to stay home at the line of scrimmage and tie up two blockers (which appeared to be the case), you still need that good first step to get leverage so you can dictate position, not have the linemen dictate position to you.

I just don't think he showed me anything there that made me say hey, this is a guy that can play the nose for us. And, if he's not the NT, there's no point putting him in this attacking penetrating style of defensive line when the guy isn't an attacker or a penetrator.

caneaddict
12-30-2005, 01:43 PM
You know, I don't even know why I try anymore. I try to upgrade the content in the main forum from the usual drivel and garbage, and when I do, my thread gets moved elsewhere.

Haloti Ngata is a guy that was projected for Nick Saban to draft. In the post I conclude that Ngata would probably not fit Saban's system.

Thank you for deliberately watering down the main forum by moving threads that don't have mindless banter about "Hey how do you guys feel about Channing Crowder? I like him!!" Way to go. Really doing a great job there.

I fully agree with what you are saying. I know there is a seperate board for college/draft. But, consideringwe are 2 days from the end of the season, what else is left to talk about for the Phins. At this point discussing the merits of how a top draft pick that has been talked about fitting Saban's style, actually performed, should be worthy of the main board.

I guess the main board is only reserved for talking about QB's.

I watched the Heat/Pistons game last night at a buddy's place so I wasn't really able to switch back and forth even though I was VERY interested in seeing Ngata myself. When I finally switched to the game was exactly when he was walking off injured. This morning I logged on here specifically for this; to read analysis on how he played/looked. I was disappointed I didn't get to see even 1 play of his but when he walked off the field my mouth dropped; the guy is just HUGE.

AirFishOne
12-30-2005, 02:02 PM
Well I must say to call the Oregon D Line bad is IMO a terrible thing to say.


They were all over Bomar, they were botteling up Peterson (a Healthy one) and they forced us to throw more.

But I think after they lost Ngata, they went down hill luckliy for us, and the Adrian found his groove :D

ckparrothead
12-30-2005, 02:17 PM
I fully agree with what you are saying. I know there is a seperate board for college/draft. But, consideringwe are 2 days from the end of the season, what else is left to talk about for the Phins. At this point discussing the merits of how a top draft pick that has been talked about fitting Saban's style, actually performed, should be worthy of the main board.

I guess the main board is only reserved for talking about QB's.

I watched the Heat/Pistons game last night at a buddy's place so I wasn't really able to switch back and forth even though I was VERY interested in seeing Ngata myself. When I finally switched to the game was exactly when he was walking off injured. This morning I logged on here specifically for this; to read analysis on how he played/looked. I was disappointed I didn't get to see even 1 play of his but when he walked off the field my mouth dropped; the guy is just HUGE.

Very big guy definitely. It just disturbs me when a DL doesn't show effort. I don't think that's Saban's style on D. If you look at his DL in LSU he never really had the huge truckload guy like Ngata...he had all energetic, active, effort guys that penetrate and use their hands. That is what draws me toward Steven Fifita of the Utah Utes. He is impressive despite his 6'0" stature. He uses his hands, he moves like a jitterbug, heck I even saw that 6'0" 322 lbs man (who looks alarmingly like Gilbert Brown) put a SPIN move on offensive linemen...on multiple occasions! It's like he doesn't know he's a short stocky kind of DT that should be tying up blockers. But he's a load in pass rush man, gave the Georgia Tech OL fits. And it really impacted me when I learned that he was the MVP of the Fiesta Bowl last year, and he deliberately set out to repeat that performance this year and if I'm not mistaken I think he had 2 sacks in the game and was generally a force in pass rush. Talk about a guy that turns it up when it matters most.

AirFishOne
12-30-2005, 02:48 PM
So what u guys think about Dusty Dvoareck??


Would yall want him?

ckparrothead
12-30-2005, 03:05 PM
So what u guys think about Dusty Dvoareck??


Would yall want him?

He's alright and he always fights his way in unlike Ngata but he didn't do anything all that impressive either. Seems like a well-built mediocre interior guy in the NFL.

Oboy
12-30-2005, 05:26 PM
I came out of watching that game thinking the same thing... He did not impress me at all. I think when OU started having success is when they started running out side. IMO the DT next to Ngata (don't remember his name) had a much better game. Ngata just looked lazy. Like he did not care or just expected to have things handed to him. Not a "Saban player" if you ask me. But then again, Saban was able to motivate Wright. If he drops a few rounds (maybe 3rd) then I'd be ok, but I just don't see Saban using a first rounder on him.

ckparrothead
12-30-2005, 06:12 PM
I came out of watching that game thinking the same thing... He did not impress me at all. I think when OU started having success is when they started running out side. IMO the DT next to Ngata (don't remember his name) had a much better game. Ngata just looked lazy. Like he did not care or just expected to have things handed to him. Not a "Saban player" if you ask me. But then again, Saban was able to motivate Wright. If he drops a few rounds (maybe 3rd) then I'd be ok, but I just don't see Saban using a first rounder on him.

Yeah but think of what a VALUE pick Wright ended up being. That kind of size and talent, yet only a 5th round pick. Wright is like 6'5" and when we drafted him I think he definitely tipped the scales around 330 pounds or something...we forced him to lose a bunch of weight. Wright definitely ran a 40 time that was "under 5.0 seconds" while he was 330 pounds, not all that much slower than Mr. Ngata, who AT BEST has reportedly run a 4.85 while at his current weight (lets see what he does in the combine). Wright is most definitely a more natural pass rusher and possesses a very good first step.

So we've got two prospects who are very similar yet Ngata is set to go top 10 and we got Wright in the 5th round. Yeah. Puts it into a bit of perspective.

As for the Saban type of player I agree that Saban seems to favor active, energetic defensive tackles. Keith Traylor as big as he is, is a pretty active an energetic guy at times (surprisingly) and the rest of his DT/DEs are like penetrating jitterbugs. I see Nick wanting a guy who can penetrate and disrupt, and that's not Ngata.

musphinzfan
12-30-2005, 06:56 PM
Not only did Ngata dissappoint but so didnt Demetrius Williams...Actually the whole damn team looked overmatched.

Brings me back to us picking a LT in the 1st hopefully Joe Thomas enters the draft too so it helps Mcneal fall to us.

AirFishOne
12-30-2005, 06:57 PM
Im so glad my Sooners showed the nation the overatedness of the Oregon Ducks :D

ckparrothead
12-30-2005, 06:57 PM
I thought Demetrius was ok actually, but that QB situation was pretty messed up going against the Oklahoma D.

Bjorn
01-06-2006, 11:16 PM
NCAA | Ngata heading to the 2006 NFL Draft
Fri, 6 Jan 2006 17:07:55 -0800

The Associated Press reports Oregon junior DT Haloti Ngata (http://www.kffl.com/player/13470/nfl) said Friday, Jan. 6, he will leave school early to enter the 2006 NFL Draft (http://www.kffl.com/link/159).



http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

RunningBackGuru
01-06-2006, 11:24 PM
Good. He is one of the best DT's in College football, looking fordward to seeing him play in the NFL.

Dors156
01-06-2006, 11:56 PM
i bet he goes to buffalo

fishypete
01-07-2006, 12:21 AM
He's not that good....and does he fit the Dolphins defense to begin with....the Dolphins don't play a straight out 3-4....and thats all he's good for.

Pocoloco
01-07-2006, 01:57 AM
I think Saban would like to run the 3-4 a little bit more, and Ngata would help him do that. I wouldn't take this season as an example of what a Saban defense looks like, since he patched it up with a number of free agents.
If you're gonna run a 3-4, then you need a large and versatile nose tackle, and that's exactly what Ngata is. Unfortunately, it is very likely he'll be off the board by then.

Danny
01-16-2006, 05:21 PM
Every year a top players seems to drop for different reasons.It always happens.I had Ngata as one of my top choices for our pick when we had a horrible record early on the year.I thought we;d be picking top 5 again and the 2 guys I kept hoping for were Ngata and Hawk.After we started winning I felt we had no chance at neither and maybe they're both be gone.The reason I think Ngata couold drop is the same Gardner droped when he came out.People talked about his numbers but many felt he didn't play as good as his numbers all the time.There's been talk about thaat with Ngata too.If people feel that way and pass on him then I'd be very happy to draft him.Just to think of a D-line of Roth,Manny,Ngata and JT is amazing tho I know he can be gone.Every year a guy will drop....if Ngata falls to us I think Nick would take him in a heart beat and I'd be jumping up and down regarless of what some people think of him.Nick would get him to play just like he did with Manny.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

BigDogsHunt
01-16-2006, 05:23 PM
Every year a top players seems to drop for different reasons.It always happens.I had Ngata as one of my top choices for our pick when we had a horrible record early on the year.I thought we;d be picking top 5 again and the 2 guys I kept hoping for were Ngata and Hawk.After we started winning I felt we had no chance at neither and maybe they're both be gone.The reason I think Ngata couold drop is the same Gardner droped when he came out.People talked about his numbers but many felt he didn't play as good as his numbers all the time.There's been talk about thaat with Ngata too.If people feel that way and pass on him then I'd be very happy to draft him.Just to think of a D-line of Roth,Manny,Ngata and JT is amazing tho I know he can be gone.Every year a guy will drop....if Ngata falls to us I think Nick would take him in a heart beat and I'd be jumping up and down regarless of what some people think of him.Nick would get him to play just like he did with Manny.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

I would be fine with that selection at 16. I agree, someone is going to fall to the middle of the first that is rated higher than that. Thats the value I think Saban has talent to find.

caneaddict
01-16-2006, 07:00 PM
Out of everyone at the top, Ngata is the most likely to slip. Not sure if I want him though. He should have dominated this year but didn't. Is he too nice? We need a space eater so I wouldn't mind taking him. I do think there's a very good chance he'll be available.

In Saban I trust!

Roman529
01-16-2006, 07:01 PM
Ngata is huge...I only saw one Oregon game and he made lots of tackles but did not seem to be the quickest guy arouind...I would take AJ Hawk before Ngata.

chrome4
01-16-2006, 07:14 PM
He will fall and we shall scoop him up.

saves
01-16-2006, 07:41 PM
I don't see how he will fall. He should be dominating in pre-draft workouts. I saw him play OK and wasn't too impressed, but thats size and strength is sick, he supposedly will post a good 40 time too.