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Freeki_phin
12-28-2005, 10:59 PM
I saw a report on ESPN where Charlie Weis was asked how much offense he thinks he would be able implement at ND this season, his comment was "Alot more than he had expected because of Brady Quinn's ability to absorb and carry that information into games he has played in". Charlie was very complimentary of Quinn and used terms such as "composure at the line of scrimmage", "character", "leadership qualities" and "knowledge of the game" and his willingness to learn a new offense has not presented him (Weis) with any problems while game planning..
Now hearing this coming from Charlie must mean he is very high on his QB, and knowing Weis had previously coached a multi SB championship winning QB must mean that there has got to be something special about this kid.
The few games I had watched of ND and Quinn this past season and I have not seen Weis with a frustrated look on his face if that might mean something.

allred65
12-28-2005, 11:35 PM
Rivers...Rivers...
Rivers...Rivers...
Rivers...Rivers...
Rivers...Rivers...
Rivers...Rivers...
Rivers...Rivers...
Rivers...Rivers!!

Regan21286
12-28-2005, 11:43 PM
If Notre Dame QB Brady Quinn leaves, do you think he is worthy of a mid 1st round draft pick, or is Cutler the guy if we take a QB in the 1st. Personally, I like Quinn. He reminds me of Carson Palmer, who in my opinion, has a chance to be special. Cutler had heavy expectations placed on him by SEC writers naming him preseason 1st team QB instead of Leak. Cutler answered those expectations, but I question his decision making at this point. I like Quinn if I had the choice... what do yall think?

If Quinn leaves and arrives at our spot I say we take him. He's been heavily scouted by Mueller and Saban can always ask fellow Belichick protege Weis for more info. The only thing I worry about Cutler (besides the cursed name Jay) is that he could end up like Favre of the latter years such as leading the league in picks. A gunslinging mentality may work in college, but not in today's NFL. I can accept Cutler in the 2nd but not the 1st round unless ours is a really low pick.

HelloMotto
12-28-2005, 11:51 PM
If Notre Dame QB Brady Quinn leaves, do you think he is worthy of a mid 1st round draft pick, or is Cutler the guy if we take a QB in the 1st. Personally, I like Quinn. He reminds me of Carson Palmer, who in my opinion, has a chance to be special. Cutler had heavy expectations placed on him by SEC writers naming him preseason 1st team QB instead of Leak. Cutler answered those expectations, but I question his decision making at this point. I like Quinn if I had the choice... what do yall think?

is it me or do i see this thread at least 3 times a week. how much more can you guyz debate......

phinphan4life
12-29-2005, 01:44 AM
If Notre Dame QB Brady Quinn leaves, do you think he is worthy of a mid 1st round draft pick, or is Cutler the guy if we take a QB in the 1st. Personally, I like Quinn. He reminds me of Carson Palmer, who in my opinion, has a chance to be special. Cutler had heavy expectations placed on him by SEC writers naming him preseason 1st team QB instead of Leak. Cutler answered those expectations, but I question his decision making at this point. I like Quinn if I had the choice... what do yall think?

Brady Quinn definitely. This would be the only time you would ever hear me chant the name Brady, because or that thorn-in-my-side quarterback QB for the Patsies. What's his name again?

Agent51
12-29-2005, 05:57 AM
Jesus! Thats disgusting it looks like he's so full of roids that he will explode.

It's not 'roids, it's lack of hydration, they don't drink anything for awhile b4 the contest so the water evaporates from their body, thus pulling the skin into the muscles cuz there is no water retained in it, then they eat high sugar things right before to get the blood pumping and make the veins pop out. It's so gross, but what's worse is the women who do it...........EW.

Dave007
12-29-2005, 10:25 AM
For those of you that like Cutler.........read Miami's pick!

Click here: NFL Draft Countdown - 2006 NFL Mock Draft (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html)

Silverphin
12-29-2005, 10:57 AM
People are saying that Jay Cutler will be available at 15. And some people believe that if we slip two spots, we won't get him. Now look at this mock draft...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Let's just say the draft goes.... almost exactly like this (not that I think it will but....). If we slip two spots or even three, we will still be able to pick him. Broncos have a great QB in Plummer. The Vikings already invested in Culpepper. And Falcons already have Michael Vick and Matt Schaub. The only thing that could effect whether or not we pick him up is the Senior Bowl.

duss12
12-29-2005, 10:57 AM
this one too

http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2006/mockdraft.shtml

datruth55
12-29-2005, 11:04 AM
I'm anxious to see what this kid does in the post season bowl games. See what he can do with better players around him and see what the scouts say about his footwork and mechanics. That seems to be the biggest knock on him right now, that he has poor footwork and a hitch in his throw but I wonder if that's a product of being behind a poor offensive line and having to hurry so much.

Caps
12-29-2005, 11:05 AM
I really want Cutler.

miabrown23
12-29-2005, 11:08 AM
I'm anxious to see what this kid does in the post season bowl games. See what he can do with better players around him and see what the scouts say about his footwork and mechanics. That seems to be the biggest knock on him right now, that he has poor footwork and a hitch in his throw but I wonder if that's a product of being behind a poor offensive line and having to hurry so much.is vanderbelt in a bowl game?

datruth55
12-29-2005, 11:09 AM
is vanderbelt in a bowl game?

No, I meant East-West Shrine Bowl, Senior Bowl, etc.

Motion
12-29-2005, 11:11 AM
I really want Cutler.

+1

ckparrothead
12-29-2005, 11:18 AM
Well that's a pretty decent point. We don't really have to worry much about the results of this weekend, with regards to Jay Cutler. On the other hand, there are some other guys we like that the Falcons and Vikings could try and steal from us...

Silverphin
12-29-2005, 11:21 AM
Well that's a pretty decent point. We don't really have to worry much about the results of this weekend, with regards to Jay Cutler. On the other hand, there are some other guys we like that the Falcons and Vikings could try and steal from us...

Yeah, that would suck. I could see them now.

Falcons (or Vikings): Hey, we'll give you Cutler if you give us Brown.

Saban: *bleep* YOU!

finjim
12-29-2005, 11:21 AM
I just don't see us going QB in the first round. I see us going for a player who can come in and immediately make an impact.


But I was wrong once before....once.

finjim
12-29-2005, 11:24 AM
I'd just as soon see us take Williams or Huff with that pick.

DolfanTom
12-29-2005, 11:31 AM
I'm anxious to see what this kid does in the post season bowl games. See what he can do with better players around him and see what the scouts say about his footwork and mechanics. That seems to be the biggest knock on him right now, that he has poor footwork and a hitch in his throw but I wonder if that's a product of being behind a poor offensive line and having to hurry so much.
From everything I've read over the last couple weeks, this guy seems like a future star, no doubt (well, about as much "no doubt" as there is w/ QBs in the NFL). That said, I really want to see him play, so I'll be tned into the Senior Bowl for sure.

Sounds like the kind of guy we would trade up a few spots for, but I'll let men wiser than me make that decision.

Danny
12-29-2005, 11:31 AM
People are saying that Jay Cutler will be available at 15. And some people believe that if we slip two spots, we won't get him. Now look at this mock draft...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Let's just say the draft goes.... almost exactly like this (not that I think it will but....). If we slip two spots or even three, we will still be able to pick him. Broncos have a great QB in Plummer. The Vikings already invested in Culpepper. And Falcons already have Michael Vick and Matt Schaub. The only thing that could effect whether or not we pick him up is the Senior Bowl.
I posted about that mock drfat a couple of days ago.I actually think that he'll be gone before our pick and we'll go BAP on Nick's board....I think we'll draft a QB in the 3rd rond or later and some people here will be upset about it but I trust Saban to do what's best....I don't want him to take the 42nd best player at 15 just cos we need a player here or there.Nick will do the right thing.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

Caps
12-29-2005, 11:32 AM
I just don't see us going QB in the first round. I see us going for a player who can come in and immediately make an impact.


But I was wrong once before....once.

I don't know, I think if you have a chance to take a QB that you think can lead your team for 12+ years, you take him over any other position. If Cutler is available at our pick, the only scenario where we don't take him is if Saban sees something wrong with Cutler that he doesn't think he and his staff can correct, IMO.

Caps
12-29-2005, 11:38 AM
I posted about that mock drfat a couple of days ago.I actually think that he'll be gone before our pick and we'll go BAP on Nick's board....I think we'll draft a QB in the 3rd rond or later and some people here will be upset about it but I trust Saban to do what's best....I don't want him to take the 42nd best player at 15 just cos we need a player here or there.Nick will do the right thing.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

Who is in front of us that you think will take him? We only have to worry about Arizona IMO.

Silverphin
12-29-2005, 11:42 AM
Who is in front of us that you think will take him? We only have to worry about Arizona IMO.

That's the only team we have to worry about... and Tennesee.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 11:45 AM
Who is in front of us that you think will take him? We only have to worry about Arizona IMO.


Arizona, Jets, Tennesse, Saints, Lions?, and the Raiders. Never know.

Danny
12-29-2005, 11:45 AM
If Cutler's there and Nick doesn't take him I can already see all those "Nick sucks" kind of threads all over the place.Me on the other hand will trust whatever Nick does and will support whoever he takes....One thing I know is that Saban will get us our QB but it might not be in the 1st round of the draft.

Ozzy rules!!

finjim
12-29-2005, 11:46 AM
I'll admit I don't know much about him, Vandy isn't exactly the greatest football powerhouse on earth!

They are better known for their defense.

Jnaledu3
12-29-2005, 11:46 AM
You also have to take into consideration that some team is going to pick up Philip Rivers. Matt Schaub and Patrick Ramsey could also be traded before draft time.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 11:47 AM
if we do draft cutler, i expect several things:

a: cutler will be 3rd stringer for a while, and saban will SAY SO at several press conferences between the time he's drafted and the beginning of the season
b: after frerotte's first interception, this board will be RAPED with "start cutler!" threads

Silverphin
12-29-2005, 11:48 AM
Arizona, Jets, Tennesse, Saints, Lions?, and the Raiders. Never know.

Oh yeah, them too. But do they have other needs they want to address that takes priority over QB? I could see Arizona going TE, then draft later on. And Tennessee and Saints will most definitely draft a QB. Lions... maybe. The Raiders... I don't know.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 11:48 AM
if we do draft cutler, i expect several things:

a: cutler will be 3rd stringer for a while, and saban will SAY SO at several press conferences between the time he's drafted and the beginning of the season
b: after frerotte's first interception, this board will be RAPED with "start cutler!" threads



:sidelol: exactly.

Jnaledu3
12-29-2005, 11:48 AM
That's the only team we have to worry about... and Tennesee.

I think Tennessee is going to get Leinart.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 11:49 AM
Oh yeah, them too. But do they have other needs they want to address that takes priority over QB? I could see Arizona going TE, then draft later on. And Tennessee and Saints will most definitely draft a QB. Lions... maybe. The Raiders... I don't know.



well IMO Arizona wont go QB in first round. i think they like Warner. but the other ones could if the right person is there.

Jnaledu3
12-29-2005, 11:54 AM
well IMO Arizona wont go QB in first round. i think they like Warner. but the other ones could if the right person is there.

They may choose not to take a QB, but it wont be because of Warner. Hes toast.

Caps
12-29-2005, 11:55 AM
Arizona, Jets, Tennesse, Saints, Lions?, and the Raiders. Never know.

Arizona takes Vince Young if he comes out, maybe Cutler if he has an amazing Senior Bowl and Young is gone. I think the Jets stick with Pennington and bring in a FA to compete, they already have too much money tied up at the QB position. Tennesse sticks with either McNair or Volek. Saints take Leinart. The Lions need a QB but have many holes and look elsewhere in the 1st. The Raiders want to see how Walter turns out and are in the same situation as the Lions, many holes. All IMO.

Silverphin
12-29-2005, 11:57 AM
Arizona takes Vince Young if he comes out, maybe Cutler if he has an amazing Senior Bowl and Young is gone. I think the Jets stick with Pennington and bring in a FA to compete. Tennesse sticks with either McNair or Volek. Saints take Leinart. The Lions need a QB but have many holes and look elsewhere in the 1st. The Raiders want to see how Walter turns out and are in the same situation as the Lions, many holes. All IMO.

Nice perspective.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 11:58 AM
They may choose not to take a QB, but it wont be because of Warner. Hes toast.


Says who? they have no other QBs.

There is a reason he signed with Arizona cause they promised him mutiple years of starting.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 12:06 PM
I just don't see us going QB in the first round. I see us going for a player who can come in and immediately make an impact.


But I was wrong once before....once.

I agree with you....Saban loves play makers....and any QB that the Dolphins take will sit at least a year. If Saban won't play Sage or Lemon unless Gus gets hurt....what chance do you think any rookie QB would have in being the starter?

Zip..none...nada....forgetaboutit!!

Zeke0123
12-29-2005, 12:06 PM
thats a nice site... That Scott Wright seems pretty good.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 12:14 PM
Saban and Mueller aren't going to use a first round pick on any QB. They aren't going to waste their first round pick on a player who's not going to play right away...Saban wants play makers with his first round picks. Look from the 4th round to free agency for QB's....thats where they will look.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 12:16 PM
Saban and Mueller aren't going to use a first round pick on any QB. They aren't going to waste their first round pick on a player who's not going to play right away...Saban wants play makers with his first round picks. Look from the 4th round to free agency for QB's....thats where they will look.


that makes zero sense

RunningBackGuru
12-29-2005, 12:16 PM
That's a good point. But I think we should just take Cutler for our first pick. We desperately need a franchise QB.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 12:27 PM
that makes zero sense


Nappy....all you have to do is look at Saban's and Mueller's past. Better yet....what did the Pats headcoach do....did he waste his first round pick on a QB? NO.

What makes anyone here think that the student won't folllow the teachers steps. Forget about using the best pick the Dolphins have, for any QB....it's not going to happen. The first round pick is for a player that will start the first day.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 12:32 PM
Nappy....all you have to do is look at Saban's and Mueller's past. Better yet....what did the Pats headcoach do....did he waste his first round pick on a QB? NO.

What makes anyone here think that the student won't folllow the teachers steps. Forget about using the best pick the Dolphins have, for any QB....it's not going to happen. The first round pick is for a player that will start the first day.


look at the QBs they had in the past. Mueller had Brooks. he didnt need to draft a QB in the first.


BB had a #1 overall pick as his QB, then he got lucky with Brady. So he didnt need to either.

Caps
12-29-2005, 12:33 PM
Nappy....all you have to do is look at Saban's and Mueller's past. Better yet....what did the Pats headcoach do....did he waste his first round pick on a QB? NO.

What makes anyone here think that the student won't folllow the teachers steps. Forget about using the best pick the Dolphins have, for any QB....it's not going to happen. The first round pick is for a player that will start the first day.

Well, first of all Bellichick had a young Drew Bledsoe at the time, who was very serviceable. But regardless, I don't think Saban won't take a QB in the first no matter what. If he thinks Cutler will be a very good QB some day, he takes him, if not, he doesn't. It's that simple IMO.

IdahoPhin
12-29-2005, 12:47 PM
Arizona takes Vince Young if he comes out, maybe Cutler if he has an amazing Senior Bowl and Young is gone. I think the Jets stick with Pennington and bring in a FA to compete, they already have too much money tied up at the QB position. Tennesse sticks with either McNair or Volek. Saints take Leinart. The Lions need a QB but have many holes and look elsewhere in the 1st. The Raiders want to see how Walter turns out and are in the same situation as the Lions, many holes. All IMO.

Good post. I thought the Saints would draft Leinart. With rumors going around about the Saints moving to LA in a couple of years, Leinart would be back in Southern Cal.. This would make him happy.

Jnaledu3
12-29-2005, 12:47 PM
Nappy....all you have to do is look at Saban's and Mueller's past. Better yet....what did the Pats headcoach do....did he waste his first round pick on a QB? NO.


Of course he didnt. He had Drew Bledsoe. A former number 1 overall pick in his prime. They drafted Brady because they thought he would be a good backup. They ended up catching lightning in a bottle. Brady is the exception, not the rule.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 12:55 PM
Of course he didnt. He had Drew Bledsoe. A former number 1 overall pick in his prime. They drafted Brady because they thought he would be a good backup. They ended up catching lightning in a bottle. Brady is the exception, not the rule.

He had Bledsoe....but he didn't draft Bledsoe. Bledsoe wasn't lighting it up in New England....seems to me we had the Pats number until Brady started.

Brady may be the exception...but not to Saban and Mueller. Mueller rarely used first round picks on QB's....and I don't see any reason to believe he's going to change....just to make some fans happy. The Dolphins have too many needs present and future to use the first pick for a QB. Lets also remember who the O.C. is....what does he like....he likes to throw the football....who is needed for that? Receivers.

volk
12-29-2005, 12:56 PM
I don't know anything about Cutler...what makes him special? Not being sarcastic here, I am just curious what has Dolphin's fans so interested in him.

To be honest, I don't care whether Saban grabs an up and coming rookie in the draft or makes a great free agent acquisition on a young player...just as long as he adresses the QB this year in a way that ensures quick development and consistantly good QB play for the next several years.

Jnaledu3
12-29-2005, 12:59 PM
He had Bledsoe....but he didn't draft Bledsoe. Bledsoe wasn't lighting it up in New England....seems to me we had the Pats number until Brady started.

Brady may be the exception...but not to Saban and Mueller. Mueller rarely used first round picks on QB's....and I don't see any reason to believe he's going to change....just to make some fans happy. The Dolphins have too many needs present and future to use the first pick for a QB. Lets also remember who the O.C. is....what does he like....he likes to throw the football....who is needed for that? Receivers.

Wow. For a guy who wanted to run Saban out of town a month ago, you sure know a lot about his agenda.:shakeno:

There is no telling what they are going to do. Just because they did it one way before, doesnt mean they are going to do the same thing again. Maybe they will, maybe they wont.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 12:59 PM
He had Bledsoe....but he didn't draft Bledsoe. Bledsoe wasn't lighting it up in New England....seems to me we had the Pats number until Brady started.

Brady may be the exception...but not to Saban and Mueller. Mueller rarely used first round picks on QB's....and I don't see any reason to believe he's going to change....just to make some fans happy. The Dolphins have too many needs present and future to use the first pick for a QB. Lets also remember who the O.C. is....what does he like....he likes to throw the football....who is needed for that? Receivers.


we have WRs, TEs, and RBs to throw the ball. we have enough weapons. If we had a good starting QB this year, we would easily be in the playoffs.

Caps
12-29-2005, 01:01 PM
He had Bledsoe....but he didn't draft Bledsoe. Bledsoe wasn't lighting it up in New England....seems to me we had the Pats number until Brady started.

Brady may be the exception...but not to Saban and Mueller. Mueller rarely used first round picks on QB's....and I don't see any reason to believe he's going to change....just to make some fans happy. The Dolphins have too many needs present and future to use the first pick for a QB. Lets also remember who the O.C. is....what does he like....he likes to throw the football....who is needed for that? Receivers.

WHAT??? Your arguement that we won't take a QB in the 1st is that we like to throw the football! I'm sorry man, I respect you and all, but that is some of the most backwards logic I've ever heard of.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 01:01 PM
I don't know anything about Cutler...what makes him special? Not being sarcastic here, I am just curious what has Dolphin's fans so interested in him.




http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/jaycutler.html

Silverphin
12-29-2005, 01:03 PM
I don't know anything about Cutler...what makes him special? Not being sarcastic here, I am just curious what has Dolphin's fans so interested in him.

To be honest, I don't care whether Saban grabs an up and coming rookie in the draft or makes a great free agent acquisition on a young player...just as long as he adresses the QB this year in a way that ensures quick development and consistantly good QB play for the next several years.

He's very athletic. He's a great pocket passer. He can rush, but he prefers to stay in the pocket and pass. Very strong arm, but he tends to throw off his back foot. Has a gunslinger mentality, which is good and bad.

Thing is, he's the Chris Chambers of the QB position. Just like how Chris Chambers is a great receiver who had not-so-great QB's throwing to him, Jay Cutler is a great college QB whose has talent around him that could barely hold his jock strap.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:03 PM
we have WRs, TEs, and RBs to throw the ball. we have enough weapons. If we had a good starting QB this year, we would easily be in the playoffs.

The Dolphins have two receivers....nothing after that. The Dolphins have one decent T.E....nothing after that.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 01:03 PM
The Dolphins have two receivers....nothing after that. The Dolphins have one decent T.E....nothing after that.


well i disagree pretty strongly.

Caps
12-29-2005, 01:05 PM
The Dolphins have two receivers....nothing after that. The Dolphins have one decent T.E....nothing after that.

So why would we spend a 1st rounder on either position if we have good to great starters at both?

Silverphin
12-29-2005, 01:05 PM
The Dolphins have two receivers....nothing after that. The Dolphins have one decent T.E....nothing after that.

Dolphins have Chambers, Booker, and Welker. Nothing after Welker. And as for Randy McMichael, he's not decent. And neither is Lorenzo Diamond.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:06 PM
well i disagree pretty strongly.

Disagree with what? After Chambers and Booker....what receiver's do they have that are worth anything? Welker is a returner....a darn good one....do you want to use him and take a chance he gets hurt...as a receiver....because you don't have anyone else worth a darn?

After McMike...what T.E. do the Dolphins have that worth a hoot?

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:08 PM
So why would we spend a 1st rounder on either position if we have good to great starters at both?

If Chambers gets hurt....who takes his place? If you want to use three and four receiver sets....who do you use?

Injuries happen.

BALLS DEEP
12-29-2005, 01:08 PM
"Struggles throwing the deep ball" Hmmmmm......

Silverphin
12-29-2005, 01:09 PM
Disagree with what? After Chambers and Booker....what receiver's do they have that are worth anything? Welker is a returner....a darn good one....do you want to use him and take a chance he gets hurt...as a receiver....because you don't have anyone else worth a darn?

After McMike...what T.E. do the Dolphins have that worth a hoot?

Like I said, Lorenzo Diamond as came through for us. Whether he was receiving or playing the H-Back role. Same with Alex Holmes, though he was only thrown to once.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 01:09 PM
Disagree with what? After Chambers and Booker....what receiver's do they have that are worth anything? Welker is a returner....a darn good one....do you want to use him and take a chance he gets hurt...as a receiver....because you don't have anyone else worth a darn?

After McMike...what T.E. do the Dolphins have that worth a hoot?


well i think Welker is a good enough and perfect type of #3. if your not going to risk him being injured he shouldnt be on the football field.

Randy isnt just decent. i think hes good. Lorenzo Diamond has some skills. He doesnt drop balls, and hes a solid blocker.

Ronnie and Ricky both can catch the ball out of the backfield, Ronnie is a really good receiver.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:10 PM
Like I said, Lorenzo Diamond as came through for us. Whether he was receiving or playing the H-Back role. Same with Alex Holmes, though he was only thrown to once.

Diamond? Holmes? Will they even be on the team after the season ends? Talent wins games....and after the few starters the Dolphins have....the talent level drops...big time.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 01:11 PM
If Chambers gets hurt....who takes his place? If you want to use three and four receiver sets....who do you use?

Injuries happen.


so we should use our 1st round pick just because Chambers or Booker MIGHT get hurt?

pretty bad logic.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:12 PM
well i think Welker is a good enough and perfect type of #3. if your not going to risk him being injured he shouldnt be on the football field.

Randy isnt just decent. i think hes good. Lorenzo Diamond has some skills. He doesnt drop balls, and hes a solid blocker.

Ronnie and Ricky both can catch the ball out of the backfield, Ronnie is a really good receiver.

Ricky may not be with the team next season...who knows? As I said...after the starters...the talent level drops.

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 01:13 PM
Ricky may not be with the team next season...who knows? As I said...after the starters...the talent level drops.


Ok. Then Sammy Morris and Travis Minor both are better than Ricky at catching the ball.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:15 PM
so we should use our 1st round pick just because Chambers or Booker MIGHT get hurt?

pretty bad logic.

Injuries happen....two years ago....we had a bunch....even Chambers got his bell rung....you have to have talented players to win games. Like I said...you lose Chambers...the season is over.

Zeke0123
12-29-2005, 01:15 PM
I dont think we "reach" for a QB if Cutler is Rated as high as some of the other BPAs I could see us drafting him but only if he grades out...we will have to wait for draft day to find that out im pretty sure.

Caps
12-29-2005, 01:17 PM
If Chambers gets hurt....who takes his place? If you want to use three and four receiver sets....who do you use?

Injuries happen.

Yes, we need depth, but you don't use 1st rounders to provide depth to your team. Who steps in if Brady goes down? Doug effing Flutie. But you don't see NE trying to get Matt Leinart in there to be Brady's backup. Depth is added with the second day picks. You try to find starters in the top rounds.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:20 PM
Yes, we need depth, but you don't use 1st rounders to provide depth to your team. Who steps in if Brady goes down? Doug effing Flutie. But you don't see NE trying to get Matt Leinart in there to be Brady's backup. Depth is added with the second day picks. You try to find starters in the top rounds.

Acquiring another receiver would be like acquiring another starter....Linehan uses three and four receiver sets...the only reason he can't in Miami is he doesn't have the personnel to use those plays.

Caps
12-29-2005, 01:31 PM
Acquiring another receiver would be like acquiring another starter....Linehan uses three and four receiver sets...the only reason he can't in Miami is he doesn't have the personnel to use those plays.

If Linehan ran a 3 reciever set every play, I still wouldn't draft a WR in the 1st. We have too many positions where we don't have good young starters at to begin with to spend our 1st on a position that we are 3 deep at. I wouldn't be opposed to picking up a guy like Sklyer Green in the mid rounds, but we can't afford to pick up a second or third guy at the expense of our 1st.

volk
12-29-2005, 01:36 PM
He had Bledsoe....but he didn't draft Bledsoe. Bledsoe wasn't lighting it up in New England....seems to me we had the Pats number until Brady started.

Brady may be the exception...but not to Saban and Mueller. Mueller rarely used first round picks on QB's....and I don't see any reason to believe he's going to change....just to make some fans happy. The Dolphins have too many needs present and future to use the first pick for a QB. Lets also remember who the O.C. is....what does he like....he likes to throw the football....who is needed for that? Receivers.


Your logic is flawed because you are failing to consider development time by position. Let me ellaborate:

QB is the single most important need on this, and any other NFL team. The modern NFL is a passer's game, and our OC has a pass oriented system. This places special emphasis on the QB position. Unfortunately, the QB position is also the most difficult to learn and master. Development time for a rookie should be considered a minimum of 2 years, with another 2 needed to truly hit full stride in an NFL offense. By contrast, a good receiver and corner will develop in 3 years, with lineman and linebackers showing solid progress in 2.

If you are expecting their QB situation through the draft, then based on development time alone, a franchise QB *MUST* be acquired in *THIS* offseason. Some other food for thought is that success rates of QB's chosen in the first round are somewhere between 35%-40%...making it the most risky position to draft in high rounds. However, of QB's drafted after the first round, starting success rates drop to single digits. If you draft 100 QB's in the second round or lower, 8 of them will turn into decent starters. For all intents and purposes then, we can conclude that 92 out of every 100 picks spent on a QB after the first round are completely wasted picks if the intent was finding a starter! Any QB drafted in the second round or later should ONLY be considered a backup, making the most logical course of action to draft a QB in the first, then pick up other skill positions in the later rounds where a probability of finding a starter are still good.

Here's what I think should happen: Saban drafts or acquires our franchise QB this year along with some secondary and perhaps a receiver. Next year, go after another LB, and spend the rest on the lines.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:44 PM
Your logic is flawed because you are failing to consider development time by position. Let me ellaborate:

QB is the single most important need on this, and any other NFL team. The modern NFL is a passer's game, and our OC has a pass oriented system. This places special emphasis on the QB position. Unfortunately, the QB position is also the most difficult to learn and master. Development time for a rookie should be considered a minimum of 2 years, with another 2 needed to truly hit full stride in an NFL offense. By contrast, a good receiver and corner will develop in 3 years, with lineman and linebackers showing solid progress in 2.

If you are expecting their QB situation through the draft, then based on development time alone, a franchise QB *MUST* be acquired in *THIS* offseason. Some other food for thought is that success rates of QB's chosen in the first round are somewhere between 35%-40%...making it the most risky position to draft in high rounds. However, of QB's drafted after the first round, starting success rates drop to single digits. If you draft 100 QB's in the second round or lower, 8 of them will turn into decent starters. For all intents and purposes then, we can conclude that 92 out of every 100 picks spent on a QB after the first round are completely wasted picks if the intent was finding a starter! Any QB drafted in the second round or later should ONLY be considered a backup, making the most logical course of action to draft a QB in the first, then pick up other skill positions in the later rounds where a probability of finding a starter are still good.

Here's what I think should happen: Saban drafts or acquires our franchise QB this year along with some secondary and perhaps a receiver. Next year, go after another LB, and spend the rest on the lines.

Can you name the last 5-6 QB's to win a superbowl....and the round in the draft they were taken? Brady....6th round....we know that. Johnson...I don't think he was a first round selection....even Favre wasn't a first round pick.
Who's logic is flawed? Give me talent surrounding a good QB....than a great QB....surrounded by average players.

finjim
12-29-2005, 01:50 PM
Saban and Mueller aren't going to use a first round pick on any QB. They aren't going to waste their first round pick on a player who's not going to play right away...Saban wants play makers with his first round picks. Look from the 4th round to free agency for QB's....thats where they will look.

Exactly, the world must be coming to an end, I agree with Petey!! :eek:

finjim
12-29-2005, 01:54 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Pete is dead on the money! :eek:

There is one significant reason we have had such a good year. We had NO key injuries. Look at the Jets, Eagles and Vikings.

We had depth so an injury didn't kill us. Ronnie can't play, Ricky comes in and tears it up. Gus goes down, Sage tears it up. We didn't have an injury at a spot where he didn't have an able replacement.

If Chambers would have gone down, we would have won 3 fewer games easy.

No depth at WR.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 01:59 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Pete is dead on the money! :eek:

There is one significant reason we have had such a good year. We had NO key injuries. Look at the Jets, Eagles and Vikings.

We had depth so an injury didn't kill us. Ronnie can't play, Ricky comes in and tears it up. Gus goes down, Sage tears it up. We didn't have an injury at a spot where he didn't have an able replacement.

If Chambers would have gone down, we would have won 3 fewer games easy.

No depth at WR.


O.K....Whats going on? Two in a row....are the Aliens coming?:abduct:

DorsalPhin
12-29-2005, 02:01 PM
With all the talk about a LT, DB and QB, it would not surprise me at all to see Saban take a WR in the 1st. (A QB taken in the 3rd or later would actually fit Mueller's style; that or trading such a pick for one.)

volk
12-29-2005, 02:03 PM
Can you name the last 5-6 QB's to win a superbowl....and the round in the draft they were taken? Brady....6th round....we know that. Johnson...I don't think he was a first round selection....even Favre wasn't a first round pick.
Who's logic is flawed? Give me talent surrounding a good QB....than a great QB....surrounded by average players.


I gave you the starting statistics as I remember them from this offseason...do with them what you will. That said, my logic is hardly flawed. If you want to gamble on a lower round QB turning into a Tom Brady, more power to you. I just think you are living in a fantasy world. Myself, I think I'll take 30% odds over 8% odds anyday.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 02:04 PM
1- Jonathan Orr WR

2- Bobby Carpenter OLB

3- Andrew Whitworth OT

4- Drew Olson QB

volk
12-29-2005, 02:05 PM
Of course, I think it is far more probable that we will go after a Rivers/Schaub/Carr trade than drafting a QB anyway.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 02:07 PM
I gave you the starting statistics as I remember them from this offseason...do with them what you will. That said, my logic is hardly flawed. If you want to gamble on a lower round QB turning into a Tom Brady, more power to you. I just think you are living in a fantasy world. Myself, I think I'll take 30% odds over 8% odds anyday.

Your stat's are flawed....forget odds....more superbowls have been won by Quarterbacks that weren't first rounders.

volk
12-29-2005, 02:19 PM
Your stat's are flawed....forget odds....more superbowls have been won by Quarterbacks that weren't first rounders.


Link? Show me winner's draft status along with the losing Qb's.

gottahavefootba
12-29-2005, 02:25 PM
Your stat's are flawed....forget odds....more superbowls have been won by Quarterbacks that weren't first rounders.

Hey fishy, I think you need to read this thread...
http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=113644&highlight=superbowl

for a little tease...

There have been 39 Super Bowls since the game was invented in 1967. That figure leaves 78 total Super Bowl appearances to be made during the period, and 39 victors. Of the 78 teams that have played in 39 Super Bowls, 35 of those teams featured a first round quarterback, which means 45% of all teams that have played in the Super Bowl did so with a first round quarterback.... Of the 39 Super Bowl winners, 20 of them were first round quarterbacks (51%).

Nappy Roots
12-29-2005, 02:32 PM
1- Jonathan Orr WR

2- Bobby Carpenter OLB

3- Andrew Whitworth OT

4- Drew Olson QB


why in the world would we draft a WR in the first, when we could get him in the 3rd or even later?!?!?

BlueFin
12-29-2005, 02:37 PM
Saban and Mueller aren't going to use a first round pick on any QB. They aren't going to waste their first round pick on a player who's not going to play right away...Saban wants play makers with his first round picks. Look from the 4th round to free agency for QB's....thats where they will look.

He will pick a quarterback when the value of the player is right for the pick, no matter when it is.

your statement about wasting first round picks is ridiculous and extremely shortsighted and I'm quite sure Saban doesn't share your malady.

volk
12-29-2005, 02:44 PM
Actually, let's just look at this year's playoff picture. First round QB's likely/reaching the playoffs this year:

Manning
Manning
Leftwich
Grossman
Palmer
Roethlisberger

Of the five clinched seeds going into the playoffs, 4 of them have first round QB's at the helm. Also, as you look at your historical analysis, consider that the rules have changed in favor of the passing game the past two years, and the QB's going to the playoffs have been directly impacted by that. Seven teams making the playoffs had first round QB's last year.

All this means is that the QB position is *increasing* in importance over previous years, and that the most successful teams tend to have a healthy first round QB at the helm.

rafael
12-29-2005, 02:52 PM
If Chambers gets hurt....who takes his place? If you want to use three and four receiver sets....who do you use?

Injuries happen.

So your theory is that it's wiser to should use our 1st round pick on a third receiver rather than on a starting QB? Do you realize that statistically wr is the position most likely to bust in the first round and that QBs taken after the 1st round succeed 1/10th as often as those taken in the first round. It sounds like you're trying putting together the strategy with the lowest liklihood of success imaginable.

BlueFin
12-29-2005, 02:53 PM
Exactly, the world must be coming to an end, I agree with Petey!! :eek:

Listen, and I mean this with all sincerety, if you can't get help at Charter.....just get help somewhere.

BlueFin
12-29-2005, 03:09 PM
I gave you the starting statistics as I remember them from this offseason...do with them what you will. That said, my logic is hardly flawed. If you want to gamble on a lower round QB turning into a Tom Brady, more power to you. I just think you are living in a fantasy world. Myself, I think I'll take 30% odds over 8% odds anyday.

Look, its not even debatable, I did a thread on this subject over a year ago, the fact is from an odds standpoint, your absolute best chance of landing a Superbowl QB is in round 1.

More Superbowls have been won by first round quarterbacks than all the other rounds and undrafted players combined.

If you count Steve Young its 21 out of 39 Superbowls.

Fishypete will never understand that because he has never grasped that the QB is the single most important position on the team.

Fishypete is under some kind of illusion that having a great first round QB somehow eliminates you from having great talent on the rest of the team.

Tom Brady is an extreme example to rest your hat on, the other two Non first rounder QB's that have won recently both had the luxury of having two of the top three defenses EVER (Bucs-Ravens), so they are hardly a model for the Dolphins to emulate, unless of course you think the odds of us building one of the top three defenses EVER are really good?

With defensive backs not being able to breath hard on WR's past 5 yards because of the changes in Pass interference enforcement two years ago, it is now essential to get a top QB.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 03:09 PM
So your theory is that it's wiser to should use our 1st round pick on a third receiver rather than on a starting QB? Do you realize that statistically wr is the position most likely to bust in the first round and that QBs taken after the 1st round succeed 1/10th as often as those taken in the first round. It sounds like you're trying putting together the strategy with the lowest liklihood of success imaginable.

Ya that made no sense to me at all. I mean if a safety is there that can truly just gun it and beat the crap out of wide receivers like an Ed Reed in the late 1st round, I can see a safety being a "safe" pick. WR though? You've got to be kidding me.... They bust all the time.

rafael
12-29-2005, 03:15 PM
Ya that made no sense to me at all. I mean if a safety is there that can truly just gun it and beat the crap out of wide receivers like an Ed Reed in the late 1st round, I can see a safety being a "safe" pick. WR though? You've got to be kidding me.... They bust all the time.

If Cutler is not there than S is my next choice. Saban's D relies heavily on the S. I have no doubt it's one of Saban's priorities.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 03:20 PM
If Cutler is not there than S is my next choice. Saban's D relies heavily on the S. I have no doubt it's one of Saban's priorities.

Also a LB if we don't get Peterson would be a good move :)

DL never hurts, NEVER if you pick the right player. A few talented ones are available. CB isn't great this year, but CB/S players that are very versatile are like Huff. Tell you the truth I'm definitely hoping for a defensive pick this year. If Winston is available I'd consider him.

rafael
12-29-2005, 03:25 PM
Also a LB if we don't get Peterson would be a good move :)

DL never hurts, NEVER if you pick the right player. A few talented ones are available. CB isn't great this year, but CB/S players that are very versatile are like Huff. Tell you the truth I'm definitely hoping for a defensive pick this year. If Winston is available I'd consider him.

I'm not sure I agree on LB. That's a position where you often find great players later in the draft. He'd have to be a really special player, LT or Urlacher like for me to think he was worth a first. I've heard some people are high on Greenway, but I haven't watched him play.

KB21
12-29-2005, 03:27 PM
Can you name the last 5-6 QB's to win a superbowl....and the round in the draft they were taken? Brady....6th round....we know that. Johnson...I don't think he was a first round selection....even Favre wasn't a first round pick.
Who's logic is flawed? Give me talent surrounding a good QB....than a great QB....surrounded by average players.

Look at history. More first round picks at QB have won Superbowls than non-first round picks.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 03:28 PM
I'm not sure I agree on LB. That's a position where you often find great players later in the draft. He'd have to be a really special player, LT or Urlacher like for me to think he was worth a first. I've heard some people are high on Greenway, but I haven't watched him play.

That's not for certain. That's like saying there will always be a great QB available later. If your taking someone at a very high pick for their position usually yes, they do represent the absolute best possible. They will be excellent players that will give the team an edge at positions other teams simply get by upon. For example Steve Hutchinson is a LG that was picked in the middle 1st round. He's possibly the best in the business along with Brian Waters. I'd say he was worth it over Willie Middlebrooks...

rafael
12-29-2005, 03:34 PM
That's not for certain. That's like saying there will always be a great QB available later. If your taking someone at a very high pick for their position usually yes, they do represent the absolute best possible. They will be excellent players that will give the team an edge at positions other teams simply get by upon. For example Steve Hutchinson is a LG that was picked in the middle 1st round. He's possibly the best in the business along with Brian Waters. I'd say he was worth it over Willie Middlebrooks...

Nothings for certain, but some positions have more value than others. LB is simply not a high value position. And yes a special player at lower value position is worth it, ie. Hutchinson, but outside of a few truly elite players you're better off filling those lower value positions with lower value picks.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 03:37 PM
Nothings for certain, but some positions have more value than others. LB is simply not a high value position. And yes a special player at lower value position is worth it, ie. Hutchinson, but outside of a few truly elite players you're better off filling those lower value positions with lower value picks.

Well one thing is for sure with Houck around I truly think we can sign Fonoti and return him to 2004 form and have a MASSIVE OL. Beyond belief big is what I should say. Considering Hadnot is a good good pass blocking C, the line will be one of the better ones for passing that we've had in recent memory. :cool:

Just have McIntosh re-structure and that's that. As for run blocking they'll simply improve and due to their size will just punish defensive lines later in games. Even more so considering the battering Brown and Williams can do.

Eshlemon
12-29-2005, 03:42 PM
Arizona takes Vince Young if he comes out, maybe Cutler if he has an amazing Senior Bowl and Young is gone. I think the Jets stick with Pennington and bring in a FA to compete, they already have too much money tied up at the QB position. Tennesse sticks with either McNair or Volek. Saints take Leinart. The Lions need a QB but have many holes and look elsewhere in the 1st. The Raiders want to see how Walter turns out and are in the same situation as the Lions, many holes. All IMO.

Think you're probably right with Leinart going to NO (or Tenn if Saints pass on him for some reason) and Arizona with Young/Cutler. I think Boller stumbles at Cleveland this week and Balt's looking for a new QB of the future next year and take either Young/Cutler ahead of our pick.

The pre-draft situation with Cutler reminds me a lot of our 2004 draft. Many mocks and the like had us picking Phillip Rivers at #20 before the Senior Bowl (and some after, before Feeley trade :cry: ). Thing is if Cutler's as good as many think, he jumps into the top 10 after the combine & senior bowl. If he's not good at the combine & senior bowl Saban won't take him at 15-17 but Cutler won't last until our pick in the 2nd round. There's a fine line that can be crossed either way.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 03:46 PM
Think you're probably right with Leinart going to NO (or Tenn if Saints pass on him for some reason) and Arizona with Young/Cutler. I think Boller stumbles at Cleveland this week and Balt's looking for a new QB of the future next year and take either Young/Cutler ahead of our pick.

The pre-draft situation with Cutler reminds me a lot of our 2004 draft. Many mocks and the like had us picking Phillip Rivers at #20 before the Senior Bowl (and some after, before Feeley trade :cry: ). Thing is if Cutler's as good as many think, he jumps into the top 10 after the combine & senior bowl. If he's not good at the combine & senior bowl Saban won't take him at 15-17 but won't last until our pick in the 2nd round. There's a fine line that can be crossed either way.

Well hopefully Miami doesn't do the stupid 4th round thing again like a couple years ago. I mean comon even if Minnesota had given the pick to New England to take Carey we would have had Udeze or Wilfork...

Is that really that bad???

- Spielman was fine at recognizing talent, but terrible at establishing a value for each player. Carey is going to be a very good tackle for us, but not over Wilfork and Udeze who were much higher rated players.

Mike13
12-29-2005, 03:46 PM
Arizona takes Vince Young if he comes out, maybe Cutler if he has an amazing Senior Bowl and Young is gone. I think the Jets stick with Pennington and bring in a FA to compete, they already have too much money tied up at the QB position. Tennesse sticks with either McNair or Volek. Saints take Leinart. The Lions need a QB but have many holes and look elsewhere in the 1st. The Raiders want to see how Walter turns out and are in the same situation as the Lions, many holes. All IMO.

Good points, I agree with them all, I would like Cutler, he wont start, but he needs to be groomed as all rookies do.

Caps
12-29-2005, 03:50 PM
Think you're probably right with Leinart going to NO (or Tenn if Saints pass on him for some reason) and Arizona with Young/Cutler. I think Boller stumbles at Cleveland this week and Balt's looking for a new QB of the future next year and take either Young/Cutler ahead of our pick.

Hopefully Boller plays well this weekend, but whether he does or not, you have to remember that Billick is coming back next season, and since he is in the final year of his contract, he knows he has to put together a good season next year to get an extension. So he pretty much has to keep "His guy(Boller)" in there not only because he'd be throwing the season away by putting a rook in there, but because he has to save some face by developing Boller into a quality starter, or else he is gone.

finhead343
12-29-2005, 04:00 PM
We'll still need a starter in '06, I don't know if Ferotte can do it.

Aqua4Ever04
12-29-2005, 04:05 PM
does anyone else find it weird that he has laurence moroney going to cleveland where ruben droughns is becoming a household name?

LarryFinFan
12-29-2005, 04:19 PM
People are saying that Jay Cutler will be available at 15. And some people believe that if we slip two spots, we won't get him. Now look at this mock draft...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Let's just say the draft goes.... almost exactly like this (not that I think it will but....). If we slip two spots or even three, we will still be able to pick him. Broncos have a great QB in Plummer. The Vikings already invested in Culpepper. And Falcons already have Michael Vick and Matt Schaub. The only thing that could effect whether or not we pick him up is the Senior Bowl.


If you read their bleep on Cutler, you'll see that this guy may not be available to us even at 15 because he hasn't gone to the Senior Bowl or had individual workouts. He really fits well in what Linehan wants for a QB, although may not be as mobile as he likes. Linehan has shown a propensity to adjust his scheme to his players tho, and Cutler would be a great pickup for us even in his rookie year. But, while this mock looks like the way things could go, there is a lot of things that will happen to affect the order of the players, the order of the teams and then there is FA, which may change everything as well....way too early to worry about this right now...

fishypete
12-29-2005, 04:33 PM
Look, its not even debatable, I did a thread on this subject over a year ago, the fact is from an odds standpoint, your absolute best chance of landing a Superbowl QB is in round 1.

More Superbowls have been won by first round quarterbacks than all the other rounds and undrafted players combined.

If you count Steve Young its 21 out of 39 Superbowls.

Fishypete will never understand that because he has never grasped that the QB is the single most important position on the team.

Fishypete is under some kind of illusion that having a great first round QB somehow eliminates you from having great talent on the rest of the team.

Tom Brady is an extreme example to rest your hat on, the other two Non first rounder QB's that have won recently both had the luxury of having two of the top three defenses EVER (Bucs-Ravens), so they are hardly a model for the Dolphins to emulate, unless of course you think the odds of us building one of the top three defenses EVER are really good?

With defensive backs not being able to breath hard on WR's past 5 yards because of the changes in Pass interference enforcement two years ago, it is now essential to get a top QB.

Montana...3rd round draft pick

Theismann....4th round Dolphin draft pick

Mark Rypien...6th round draft pick

Kurt Warner....not drafted

Brett Favre...2nd round draft pick

Brad Johnson... 9th round draft pick

Jaj
12-29-2005, 04:35 PM
Montana...3rd round draft pick

Theismann....4th round Dolphin draft pick

Mark Rypien...6th round draft pick

Kurt Warner....not drafted

Brett Favre...2nd round draft pick

Brad Johnson... 9th round draft pick

Any HOW MANY others have failed that were 3,4,6,undrafted,2,9 round draft picks.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 04:42 PM
Any HOW MANY others have failed that were 3,4,6,undrafted,2,9 round draft picks.

And how many first rounders failed?

Which is worse....using your first round pick and that player failing...or using a 4th..5th..etc....and they fail?

Selecting a player with your first round pick...and that player fails usually set's your team back both in play and cap...for years.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 04:44 PM
And how many first rounders failed?

Which is worse....using your first round pick and that player failing...or using a 4th..5th..etc....and they fail?

Selecting a player with your first round pick...and that player fails usually set's your team back both in play and cap...for years.

What's worse is depending upon picks like that non-stop while your team's players just age and age and age. 1st round QBs I think are around 50% which is not too bad. Plus it depends where in the first round your draft. A late 1st doesn't break your team's future.

CrunchTime
12-29-2005, 04:46 PM
People are saying that Jay Cutler will be available at 15. And some people believe that if we slip two spots, we won't get him. Now look at this mock draft...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Let's just say the draft goes.... almost exactly like this (not that I think it will but....). If we slip two spots or even three, we will still be able to pick him. Broncos have a great QB in Plummer. The Vikings already invested in Culpepper. And Falcons already have Michael Vick and Matt Schaub. The only thing that could effect whether or not we pick him up is the Senior Bowl.

You are neglecting to mention that teams may want to trade up to those spots.

rafael
12-29-2005, 04:53 PM
And how many first rounders failed?

Much fewer.



Which is worse....using your first round pick and that player failing...or using a 4th..5th..etc....and they fail?

Selecting a player with your first round pick...and that player fails usually set's your team back both in play and cap...for years.

What's worse picking only late round QBs every year and finding one in 20 years or picking 1st rounders and finding one witin two years?

Statistically, it's not even close. You can find late round gems, but odds are you'll have to sift through years of trash before you find one.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 05:03 PM
Much fewer.



What's worse picking only late round QBs every year and finding one in 20 years or picking 1st rounders and finding one witin two years?

Statistically, it's not even close. You can find late round gems, but odds are you'll have to sift through years of trash before you find one.

That's the point. The majority of the time when a team forces a QB pick it fails. Expectations as well as overvalued talent hurt a player terribly. On the other hand friggin Steelers sat there and took Roethlisberger for just the 11th pick. What a deal.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:09 PM
What's worse is depending upon picks like that non-stop while your team's players just age and age and age. 1st round QBs I think are around 50% which is not too bad. Plus it depends where in the first round your draft. A late 1st doesn't break your team's future.

It doesn't break a teams future? Ask the Bengals and Browns....how many first round bust's have they had for years and years.

Any first round pick has to play right away....otherwise you get nothing for that pick. If you think it's 50/50 for first round drafted QB's...I highly suggest you take the time and research that stat.

1990....Jeff George.....Andre Ware

1991...Dan McGwire....Todd Marinovich

1992...Dave Klingler...Tommy Maddox

1993...Drew Bledsoe....Rick Mirer

1994...Heath Shuler....Trent Dilfer

So far it's so good....we can all wet our pants.

1995..Steve McNair....Kerry Collins

1996....some one loves us up there....NO drafted QB's in the first round.

1997..Jim Druckenmiller.

1998...Peyton Manning....Ryan Leaf

1999...Tim Couch....Donovan McNabb...Akili Smith...Dante Culpepper and Cade McNown

Now....How many of those BOZO's would you want on the Dolphins?

2-3 thats about it....the rest are either overhyped...junk or shouldn't have been first round picks to start with. 50%....My behind.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 05:10 PM
It doesn't break a teams future? Ask the Bengals and Browns....how many first round bust's have they had for years and years.

Any first round pick has to play right away....otherwise you get nothing for that pick. If you think it's 50/50 for first round drafted QB's...I highly suggest you take the time and research that stat.

1990....Jeff George.....Andre Ware

1991...Dan McGwire....Todd Marinovich

1992...Dave Klingler...Tommy Maddox

1993...Drew Bledsoe....Rick Mirer

1994...Heath Shuler....Trent Dilfer

So far it's so good....we can all wet our pants.

1995..Steve McNair....Kerry Collins

1996....some one loves us up there....NO drafted QB's in the first round.

1997..Jim Druckenmiller.

1998...Peyton Manning....Ryan Leaf

1999...Tin Couch....Donovan McNabb...Akili Smith...Dante Culpepper and Cade McNown

Now....How many of those BOZO's would you want on the Dolphins?

2-3 thats about it....the rest are either overhyped...junk or shouldn't have been first round picks to start with. 50%....My behind.

The majority of QBs drafted that are busts are late round. Many are busts only because the team they have sucks and they aren't given the right chance to succeed.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:11 PM
The majority of QBs drafted that are busts are late round. Many are busts only because the team they have sucks and they aren't given the right chance to succeed.

Right. Who cares if a guy you pick in the 5th round fails....but you better care if your first round fails.

Motion
12-29-2005, 05:13 PM
:lol: You guys are wasting your time arguing with him about this.

Its obvious who i want in the draft but will I be crushed if it doesn't happen? No. I have complete faith in our very knowledgeable, resourceful, and hard working coach and GM, they'll find someone soon. Relax people.

Jaj
12-29-2005, 05:15 PM
Right. Who cares if a guy you pick in the 5th round fails....but you better care if your first round fails.

Well there's a huge difference if my 26th pick fails rather than my 2nd overall. That's a big change. It's much bigger than comparing a 4th or 6th round pick failing.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:17 PM
:lol: You guys are wasting your time arguing with him about this.

Its obvious who i want in the draft but will I be crushed if it doesn't happen? No. I have complete faith in our very knowledgeable, resourceful, and hard working coach and GM, they'll find someone soon. Relax people.

I agree....look at the list...and don't argue.

Wouldn't we all be surprised if Lemon is the future? The Dolphins have been really quite about him....not a peep.

rafael
12-29-2005, 05:18 PM
Right. Who cares if a guy you pick in the 5th round fails....but you better care if your first round fails.

You'd care if the 5th round is where you're expecting your QB to come from. About 5% of those guys succeed. If you take one a year it could take you 20 years to find one. No matter how badly you screw up a 1st round it's not going to take you 20 years to recover.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:18 PM
Well there's a huge difference if my 26th pick fails rather than my 2nd overall. That's a big change. It's much bigger than comparing a 4th or 6th round pick failing.

Look at that list....other than Peyton....who's the sure thing? Many are out of football....what a waste....and some others should be. LOL.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:20 PM
You'd care if the 5th round is where you're expecting your QB to come from. About 5% of those guys succeed. If you take one a year it could take you 20 years to find one. No matter how badly you screw up a 1st round it's not going to take you 20 years to recover.

Right....again....cap money comes into play....how much are you willing to spend on a wish and hope?

80% of that list shouldn't have been first round picks to begin with....fools and desperation.

rafael
12-29-2005, 05:28 PM
Right....again....cap money comes into play....how much are you willing to spend on a wish and hope?

80% of that list shouldn't have been first round picks to begin with....fools and desperation.

It's less of a wish and hope to gamble on a 50% bet than its to gamble on a 5% bet.

And the fact many of those guys shouldn't have been 1st round picks(I agree) means that if you do a better job of scouting your success rate should be higher than 50%. (and of course it's much easier to achieve a higher success rate when you start at 50% than when you start at 5%.)

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:31 PM
It's less of a wish and hope to gamble on a 50% bet than its to gamble on a 5% bet.

And the fact many of those guys shouldn't have been 1st round picks(I agree) means that if you do a better job of scouting your success rate should be higher than 50%. (and of course it's much easier to achieve a higher success rate when you start at 50% than when you start at 5%.)

It's not 50%....when 80% of the QB's taken from 90 to 99 are duds.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 05:32 PM
"safe is death"


if you draft on your pocketbook and not your brain, you're never going to compete in the NFL. if you think a quarterback is worthy of a top pick and the value is there, YOU DRAFT HIM, period. none of this "oooh what if he doesn't work out? we'll be in cap hell!" you CAN'T think that way, you'll kill your team

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:34 PM
"safe is death"


if you draft on your pocketbook and not your brain, you're never going to compete in the NFL. if you think a quarterback is worthy of a top pick and the value is there, YOU DRAFT HIM, period. none of this "oooh what if he doesn't work out? we'll be in cap hell!" you CAN'T think that way, you'll kill your team

Maybe you should tell Mueller....he doesn't use 1st rounders for QB's.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 05:36 PM
Maybe you should tell Mueller....he doesn't use 1st rounders for QB's.
oh he doesn't? you know this how? please enlighten me on how you came about this information that would potentially be a dagger in the back to other teams interested in trading up/down with the dolphins for quarterback reasons. i really didn't know you had this inside information, but how gracious of you to share this on finheaven!

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:41 PM
oh he doesn't? you know this how? please enlighten me on how you came about this information that would potentially be a dagger in the back to other teams interested in trading up/down with the dolphins for quarterback reasons. i really didn't know you had the inside information, and how gracious of you to share this on finheaven!

You can read can't you? He has never used a first round pick as far as I can find out for any QB....ever.

Favre was a 2nd round pick....Brooks a 4th round pick from GB

And if memory serves me....didn't Saban say....no trading away top picks....that kills the future of the team.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 05:45 PM
You can read can't you? He has never used a first round pick as far as I can find out for any QB....ever.

Favre was a 2nd round pick....Brooks a 4th round pick from GB
ahhhh yes, so because he's yet to draft a quarterback in the first round, that means he "doesn't draft quarterbacks in the first round"


well, i guess we know what saban is drafting this year. we're taking another runningback in the first round! then in the 2nd, a DE! in the third, an inside linebacker! in the 4th and 5th we're taking a CB and T, respectively. we're going to have to trade our 6th rounder (because saban doesn't draft players in the 6th round), but we're coming back to take a DT in the 7th!

ckb2001
12-29-2005, 05:46 PM
Fishy.. He "doesn't" is different than he "hasn't". You may be right in that he hasn't, but how do you know he doesn't (implying he will not in the future)? Also, don't forget how important getting a good QB is for us. IF we don't find one in free agency, it definitely increases the urgency of finding a good one relatively quickly through the draft, and in that case it doesn't matter what the exact odds are, it matters what the relative odds are; you take the one with the highest.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:46 PM
ahhhh yes, so because he's yet to draft a quarterback in the first round, that means he "doesn't draft quarterbacks in the first round"


well, i guess we know what saban is drafting this year. we're taking another runningback in the first round! then in the 2nd, a DE! in the third, an inside linebacker! in the 4th and 5th we're taking a CB and T, respectively. we're going to have to trade our 6th rounder (because saban doesn't draft players in the 6th round), but we're coming back to take a DT in the 7th!

Why do I waste my time....better get some thorazine....for the draft....you'll need it.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 05:48 PM
Why do I waste my time....better get some thorazine....for the draft....you'll need it.
why even bother with the draft? i already know what's going to happen!

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:49 PM
Fishy.. He "doesn't" is different than he "hasn't". You may be right in that he hasn't, but how do you know he doesn't (implying he will not in the future)? Also, don't forget how important getting a good QB is for us. IF we don't find one in free agency, it definitely increases the urgency of finding a good one relatively quickly through the draft, and in that case it doesn't matter what the exact odds are, it matters what the relative odds are; you take the one with the highest.

Look at the QB's that Saban had at LSU....look at what Mueller select's in the draft....now look at them trading for Lemon...a kid that Houck saw every day.
Houck comes to Miami...and so does Lemon. Lemon fits the mold of a Saban QB...and a Mueller QB....doesn't he?

Zeke0123
12-29-2005, 05:52 PM
You can read can't you? He has never used a first round pick as far as I can find out for any QB....ever.

Favre was a 2nd round pick....Brooks a 4th round pick from GB

And if memory serves me....didn't Saban say....no trading away top picks....that kills the future of the team.Fishy you make a lot of your speculation sound like your are refering to statement of fact....its very annoying.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:56 PM
Fishy you make a lot of your speculation sound like your are refering to statement of fact....its very annoying.

It is fact....until he uses a first round pick on ANY QB. Speculation is saying the Dolphins are even going to draft a QB. I fully believe they already have the Dolphins future starter in Miami....Lemon.

Just how do you think we found out about Lemon....crystal ball? Employment section of the newspaper? Houck....thats how. He saw Lemon every day.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 05:58 PM
Fishy what we are trying to say is this....

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif


"The page cannot be displayed".....I've seen that before...LOL.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 06:01 PM
It is fact....until he uses a first round pick on ANY QB. Speculation is saying the Dolphins are even going to draft a QB. I fully believe they already have the Dolphins future starter in Miami....Lemon.

Just how do you think we found out about Lemon....crystal ball? Employment section of the newspaper? Houck....thats how. He saw Lemon every day.
to say "mueller has never drafted a QB in the first round, so i guess it's possible that he wouldn't take one in the first this year" is different than saying "mueller doesn't draft QBs in the first round"

and assuming that lemon is the future of the team because they traded feeley (who they wanted to get rid of anyway) for him is another absurd thing. are you one of those people that when you cough and it starts to rain, that you think your coughing caused it?

Jaj
12-29-2005, 06:02 PM
Look at the QB's that Saban had at LSU....look at what Mueller select's in the draft....now look at them trading for Lemon...a kid that Houck saw every day.
Houck comes to Miami...and so does Lemon. Lemon fits the mold of a Saban QB...and a Mueller QB....doesn't he?

For the thousandth time Saban doesn't have a QB. I mean he recruited Jeff Smoker this last year at MSU. Is he anything like Davey? No...

That's just the talent he had available to him.

Zeke0123
12-29-2005, 06:04 PM
It is fact....until he uses a first round pick on ANY QB. Speculation is saying the Dolphins are even going to draft a QB. I fully believe they already have the Dolphins future starter in Miami....Lemon.

Just how do you think we found out about Lemon....crystal ball? Employment section of the newspaper? Houck....thats how. He saw Lemon every day.its specualtion....He is a BPA kind of GM and im very happy about that but if the BPA is a QB in round one how do you KNOW he wont pull the trigger ???

BigDogsHunt
12-29-2005, 06:04 PM
Fishy you make a lot of your speculation sound like your are refering to statement of fact....its very annoying.

Fishy -

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

BigDogsHunt
12-29-2005, 06:05 PM
...LOL.

:sidelol: :sidelol:

ckb2001
12-29-2005, 06:05 PM
Funny, fishy is having basically this same argument on three different threads :lol:

fishypete
12-29-2005, 06:12 PM
to say "mueller has never drafted a QB in the first round, so i guess it's possible that he wouldn't take one in the first this year" is different than saying "mueller doesn't draft QBs in the first round"

and assuming that lemon is the future of the team because they traded feeley (who they wanted to get rid of anyway) for him is another absurd thing. are you one of those people that when you cough and it starts to rain, that you think your coughing caused it?


They say the world is going to end....almost daily. Could Mueller and Saban use the first round pick for a QB....sure....they could....but I highly doubt it.

Saban didn't have a first round QB at LSU....but won a National championship...Mueller hasn't use a first round pick for a QB...and he has either drafted or traded a few QB's in his time. I don't assume Lemon is the future because of Feeley...but because he fits what Saban and Mueller look in a QB....because Houck saw him every day when they were both at San Diego.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 06:14 PM
:sidelol: :sidelol:


It's good to laugh....I always hope to do my part....GO PHINS!

fishypete
12-29-2005, 06:16 PM
its specualtion....He is a BPA kind of GM and im very happy about that but if the BPA is a QB in round one how do you KNOW he wont pull the trigger ???

Because you have to go by what Saban said....he wants play makers with his first round picks....players who will have to contribute right away....taking a rookie QB....doesn't fit that.

rafael
12-29-2005, 06:17 PM
It's not 50%....when 80% of the QB's taken from 90 to 99 are duds.

A 50% success rate for 1st rounders is a well accepted statistic. I personally went through every pick myself a couple of years ago and verified it. You can argue semantics about whether this player or that player was a success, but unless you're being unreasonable that 50% number holds up. The same is true for later round picks. Arguments over individual players will move it between 5% - 6%, but either way it's very low. You may decide to live in a fantasy world where every 6th rounder is Brady, but the facts don't support that. In this very thread you saw that almost all of the playoff QBs this year were 1st rounders. The facts are that about 1 out of 20 late round QBs succeed and about 1 out of 2 1st round QBs succeed. Planning a strategy around picking up a late round Brady will fail 19 out of 20 times.

Caps
12-29-2005, 06:23 PM
Saban didn't have a first round QB at LSU

WTF?????

rafael
12-29-2005, 06:24 PM
Because you have to go by what Saban said....he wants play makers with his first round picks....players who will have to contribute right away....taking a rookie QB....doesn't fit that.

He said he wanted playmakers. I never heard him say they had to contribute right away. If you could find that quote it would be much appreciated. He did say he's building for the long term. And obviously the QB position is a playmaking position. So nothing I've heard him say eliminates a 1st round QB. Further, Mueller was seen scouting both Quinn and Young so unless they think those guys will slip it would seem that they are considering taking a 1st round QB.

fishypete
12-29-2005, 06:26 PM
A 50% success rate for 1st rounders is a well accepted statistic. I personally went through every pick myself a couple of years ago and verified it. You can argue semantics about whether this player or that player was a success, but unless you're being unreasonable that 50% number holds up. The same is true for later round picks. Arguments over individual players will move it between 5% - 6%, but either way it's very low. You may decide to live in a fantasy world where every 6th rounder is Brady, but the facts don't support that. In this very thread you saw that almost all of the playoff QBs this year were 1st rounders. The facts are that about 1 out of 20 late round QBs succeed and about 1 out of 2 1st round QBs succeed. Planning a strategy around picking up a late round Brady will fail 19 out of 20 times.

Again...these are the 1st round selections of QB's...for a decade....How many are busts?

1990....Jeff George.....Andre Ware

1991...Dan McGwire....Todd Marinovich

1992...Dave Klingler...Tommy Maddox

1993...Drew Bledsoe....Rick Mirer

1994...Heath Shuler....Trent Dilfer

So far it's so good....we can all wet our pants.

1995..Steve McNair....Kerry Collins

1996....some one loves us up there....NO drafted QB's in the first round.

1997..Jim Druckenmiller.

1998...Peyton Manning....Ryan Leaf

1999...Tim Couch....Donovan McNabb...Akili Smith...Dante Culpepper and Cade McNown

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 06:27 PM
Because you have to go by what Saban said....he wants play makers with his first round picks....players who will have to contribute right away....taking a rookie QB....doesn't fit that.
:shakeno:

i HOPE that saban isn't DUMB enough to stick to one train of thought when it comes to the draft

fishypete
12-29-2005, 06:31 PM
He said he wanted playmakers. I never heard him say they had to contribute right away. If you could find that quote it would be much appreciated. He did say he's building for the long term. And obviously the QB position is a playmaking position. So nothing I've heard him say eliminates a 1st round QB. Further, Mueller was seen scouting both Quinn and Young so unless they think those guys will slip it would seem that they are considering taking a 1st round QB.

Play makers contribute right away. Using the first round pick on a QB....that will sit....is not contributing. Saban was said to want a certain receiver right up to the last moment....but it was smoke. Scouting Quinn and Young is nothing but smoke....neither have said their coming out yet....and the draft is too far away to trust anything they say or do.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 06:32 PM
Play makers contribute right away.
:sidelol:

your insider information makes me jealous

fishypete
12-29-2005, 06:34 PM
:sidelol:

your insider information makes me jealous

There's always hope. ;)

Zeke0123
12-29-2005, 06:36 PM
Play makers contribute right away. Using the first round pick on a QB....that will sit....is not contributing. Saban was said to want a certain receiver right up to the last moment....but it was smoke. Scouting Quinn and Young is nothing but smoke....neither have said their coming out yet....and the draft is too far away to trust anything they say or do.So what your saying is....Saban never said "right away" its just speculation on your part.

kastofsna120
12-29-2005, 06:38 PM
So what your saying is....Saban never said "right away" its just speculation on your part.
:yes:

everything he says is speculation

unifiedtheory
12-29-2005, 06:42 PM
Fishy -

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif:sidelol:

BlueFin
12-29-2005, 07:53 PM
Montana...3rd round draft pick

Theismann....4th round Dolphin draft pick

Mark Rypien...6th round draft pick

Kurt Warner....not drafted

Brett Favre...2nd round draft pick

Brad Johnson... 9th round draft pick

1st Rounders:

Joe Namath
Len Dawson
Earl Morrall
Bob Griese - X2
Terry Bradshaw-X4
Jim Plunkett-X2
Jim McMahon
Phil Simms
Doug Williams
Troy Aikman-X3
Steve Young
John Elway-X2
Trent Dilfer

And, Favre was one pick away from a first rounder which still marks him as a high draft pick.

Amici Curiae
12-29-2005, 10:51 PM
I know nobody wants to hear it, but I think the best answer is to play Frerotte for one more year and try to get Brady Quinn in the '07 draft.

At this moment, I do not believe there is a quarterback in college football with a brighter future than Brady Quinn.

d-day
12-29-2005, 10:56 PM
Fishy -

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

:chuckle:

Caps
12-29-2005, 10:56 PM
I know nobody wants to hear it, but I think the best answer is to play Frerotte for one more year and try to get Brady Quinn in the '07 draft.

At this moment, I do not believe there is a quarterback in college football with a brighter future than Brady Quinn.

Brady Quinn will be the 1st QB taken in 07, if he doesn't declare this year. So unless we totally suck it up next year, which doesn't look likely at the moment, we won't even be close to having a shot at him.

Amici Curiae
12-29-2005, 10:59 PM
You're probably right Caps; however, I think we are in good position to trade up to get that position (i.e. keep Ricky for one more year as a backup and then bundle him in a trade with picks in order to move up for Quinn).

It is a far-fetched idea, but I like it. :)

Phinja
12-29-2005, 11:57 PM
Alot of posters on this site have their heart set on Cutler. Now, IF it does happen, how do you handle his first year?

:sleep: Do you sit him the year, and if so who does he sit behind?

:eek: Do you start him right away, sighting game experiance as the best teacher of football's harsh lessons?

:ko: Do you make him compete in camp for the job against a veteran?

My question is: how would YOU handle Miami's hope for the future?

... :helmet:
.. :helmet:
. :helmet: :dolphins:....... :goof:
.. :helmet:
... :helmet:

tylerdolphin
12-30-2005, 12:03 AM
IMO you shouldnt straight out sit him. If he is ready to start and looks good, you start him. Last I checked, Peyton turned out OK. We have enough talent around him so that he wont get pummeled. He wont be much worse than Frerotte. Probably better than Frerotte

Caps
12-30-2005, 12:03 AM
Let him sit behind Gus for a year. Give him the Carson Palmer treatment.

vt_dolfan
12-30-2005, 12:04 AM
Hmmm.....

I would sign the best available FA QB to push Gus Frerotte for the starting job next year. The loser sits and Cutler is our 3rd string QB...I would give him plenty of game time in the pre season though.

Some potential FA Qb's...

Kerry Collins
Jon Kitna
Josh Mcnown...(would liked to see him here)

Wouldnt mind seeing Josh Mcnown...see what he has...at worst Gus starts..at best Josh lights it up and we then have the same problem that the Bolts have this year.....

Prime
12-30-2005, 12:05 AM
I think that he should sit for a year and learn the NFL and the offensive system. I really don't think that he will be NFL ready whenever he gets drafted anyway. He will have some work to do if he wants to be a good NFL QB.

Phinja
12-30-2005, 12:05 AM
Throw him in now. Get the growing pains out of the way.

tylerdolphin
12-30-2005, 12:05 AM
Hmmm.....

I would sign the best available FA QB to push Gus Frerotte for the starting job next year. The loser sits and Cutler is our 3rd string QB...I would give him plenty of game time in the pre season though.

Some potential FA Qb's...

Kerry Collins
Jon Kitna
Josh Mcnown...(would liked to see him here)

Wouldnt mind seeing Josh Mcnown...see what he has...at worst Gus starts..at best Josh lights it up and we then have the same problem that the Bolts have this year.....

He cant be 3rd string. He needs a few first team snaps. Even if you sit him for a year, he will still have to go through his bumps, so why not start him from the break? And please, no Gus. There are 100 better options out there.

Bjorn
12-30-2005, 12:07 AM
Let him sit for a year.

vt_dolfan
12-30-2005, 12:07 AM
He cant be 3rd string. He needs a few first team snaps. Even if you sit him for a year, he will still have to go through his bumps, so why not start him from the break? And please, no Gus. There are 100 better options out there.

No Gus fan here either... but over our 5 game winning streak his QB rating is over 80....

Rafiki
12-30-2005, 12:09 AM
The greatest QB's start their rookie season.

That being said, I'm not convinced he has the potential to be a great QB.

So, let him compete- if we even pick him up.

Caps
12-30-2005, 12:30 AM
The greatest QB's start their rookie season.

That being said, I'm not convinced he has the potential to be a great QB.

So, let him compete- if we even pick him up.

Do you mean start at some point in their rookie season, or start from the get-go?

earl the pearl
12-30-2005, 12:31 AM
I don't think it's the right thing to tell him that regardless of how he plays, works, etc. he'll be sitting his first year...I think you let him compete, and if he's the best, you play him. if he's not, you sit him, but with the option of letting him come in and play when he earns it.

kastofsna120
12-30-2005, 12:32 AM
nah, sit him for a while

Boik14
12-30-2005, 12:45 AM
Many people have read why I dont advocate drafting a QB in rd 1. Part of that is because you really have to sit them for a year or 2 and then when they first see the in game action they still have to work the kinks out. So ya, IF we do go that route Id be pretty upset if we threw him into the fire.

djfresh47
12-30-2005, 01:24 AM
I don't think sitting a Qb helps them out. I think playing a rookie who has alot invested in them right away is the best thing to do for them. It is a no-win situation, IMO if they sit him, look at how badly the Bills have mishandeled Losman, who was getting better in order to try and save the coaches job. If Cutler is drafted then he'll go through growing pains and I don't think it is better to delay them a season in order to finish 8-8 or 9-7 again next year. I think not starting him creates a Qb controversy the minute he takes the field his 2nd season or so. Even people in Cincy wanted Palmer benched before he took off the 2nd half of last season.

Silverphin
12-30-2005, 01:31 AM
I don't think sitting a Qb helps them out. I think playing a rookie who has alot invested in them right away is the best thing to do for them. It is a no-win situation, IMO if they sit him, look at how badly the Bills have mishandeled Losman, who was getting better in order to try and save the coaches job. If Cutler is drafted then he'll go through growing pains and I don't think it is better to delay them a season in order to finish 8-8 or 9-7 again next year. I think not starting him creates a Qb controversy the minute he takes the field his 2nd season or so. Even people in Cincy wanted Palmer benched before he took off the 2nd half of last season.

I'm torn between letting him fight the wolves and making him compete for the job.

Anyway, the last thing I want to see is QB's with mass potential getting screwed up, or just plained screwed by their team's staff (See: Patrick Ramsey, Joey Harrington, and Damon Huard during the Dumbstedt era).

KB21
12-30-2005, 01:37 AM
You let him sit for a year. It will pay off in the end. You run the risk of doing more harm than good by throwing him to the wolves too soon. Young guys like that don't know how to handle failure, and by throwing him to the wolves too soon, you are guaranteeing his failure for his first season.

You sit him like Cincinnati did with Carson Palmer. Let him learn the offense and get comfortable. Let him learn about the speed of the game by practicing and watching. Then, you turn him loose in his second year.

Sirspud
12-30-2005, 01:41 AM
Don't get him into the game until situations force him to or he earns it on his own. QB's who come in too early sometimes never elevate their level of play beyond mediocre levels and its not for lack of talent. I think they just play before they are ready to adjust to the game and are never able to take it to the next level.

djfresh47
12-30-2005, 01:44 AM
You let him sit for a year. It will pay off in the end. You run the risk of doing more harm than good by throwing him to the wolves too soon. Young guys like that don't know how to handle failure, and by throwing him to the wolves too soon, you are guaranteeing his failure for his first season.

You sit him like Cincinnati did with Carson Palmer. Let him learn the offense and get comfortable. Let him learn about the speed of the game by practicing and watching. Then, you turn him loose in his second year.

Yes but if the team has moderate success like the team has had this year and duplicate it next year, I think that is really setting the kid up to fail. I think my situation implicates that the coach would not have much job security I.E. Mularky, but if the guy if the guy is somewhat ready I think he plays right away. I look at the Afc East right now and the Bills front office is gonna be overhauled, and possibly their coach, the Jets are awful, so I think if anything next year would be a perfect time to let a rookie go out and start.

djfresh47
12-30-2005, 02:00 AM
I'm torn between letting him fight the wolves and making him compete for the job.

Anyway, the last thing I want to see is QB's with mass potential getting screwed up, or just plained screwed by their team's staff (See: Patrick Ramsey, Joey Harrington, and Damon Huard during the Dumbstedt era).

I think that Ramsey and Harrington were placed in bad situations, and had to go through a coaching change which definately hurt them. Harrington has had time and has all the talent in the world, like Carr, but don't seem to have the intangible "it," which has made them likely to be better suited as backups. I think Saban has job security so possibly taking a step back next season in starting a rookie in order to go two steps forward the following year would be a better option. Alex Smith is being written off by alot of people on this site as being a "bust," after his rookie year, but young Qb's are gonna make mistakes, and the teams that let them work through them like the Giants and the Bengals did with Palmer/Manning, are atleast contenders this year. I am very familiar with the Bills, and often bring them up, and see what they did with Losman and it's an absolute joke, which is what I don't wanna see happen with the Phins and a young Qb.

Aqua4Ever04
12-30-2005, 02:05 AM
Alot of posters on this site have their heart set on Cutler. Now, IF it does happen, how do you handle his first year?

:sleep: Do you sit him the year, and if so who does he sit behind?

:eek: Do you start him right away, sighting game experiance as the best teacher of football's harsh lessons?

:ko: Do you make him compete in camp for the job against a veteran?

My question is: how would YOU handle Miami's hope for the future?

... :helmet:
.. :helmet:
. :helmet: :dolphins:....... :goof:
.. :helmet:
... :helmet:

I think itd be a good idea to bring in a QB who isnt yet proven but has experiance along with Cutler. A guy like Rivers would be perfect. That way if he fails, we plug in Cutler. If Rivers pans out, you have 2 good QBs which is VERY important in todays NFL...(see Jacksonville Jaguars)

Danny
12-30-2005, 03:38 AM
How about just trust Nick? He started 3 rookies this year but I know QB is a different thing all together...I doubt he'd start on opening day but he could start at some point during the season and I'd be fine with it.Even Dan didn't start on opening day but he did start in the 6 or 7 game of the year in 83.

Ozzy rules!!

dominizzo
12-30-2005, 03:39 AM
I liiek Josh Mccown arm but i dunno could it be that Zona has no oline to protect him to give him time/?

sports24/7
12-30-2005, 03:43 AM
I would take it as it comes. If after TC I felt he could handle being a starting QB I would start him. Many times a young QB will go throught growing pains in his first year starting and I don't see how getting it out of the way next year would be a bad thing. Now if he struggles to pick up the offense or just shows he isn't ready then you need to sit him until he is. I think he could be a candidate to start right away though.

Joneal7
12-30-2005, 03:54 AM
have him compete with Mcnair for the starting job

tylerdolphin
12-30-2005, 04:21 AM
It really depends on what he does. Im not for any of the options. I just think that if he is good enough, play him. If he needs more time, sit him.

Aqua4Ever04
12-30-2005, 04:22 AM
have him compete with Mcnair for the starting job

i dont understand why anyone would want mcnair, if he stays healthy for all 16 games (which is about a 10% chance) he would still be bottom of the league. no better then lousy frerrote in my mind

tylerdolphin
12-30-2005, 04:23 AM
When healthy, McNair is no question better than Gus. But like you said, there is like a 10% chance he plays 16 games

ChambersWI
12-30-2005, 05:00 AM
Let him sit for a year.
this is off topic, but you change your mock draft more than anybody I know (and if we get Haggans he'll be a WR/KR)

anyways, it all depends. IF Cutler clearly outperforms Gus/Sage/Cleo/whoever the hell he is competeing with you let him play, but you have to be willing yo accept that the record would take a hit.

In a way, it would be comparable to the Bills situation with Lsman, but it would probably turn out better because Saban>Mularcky, Saban/Mueller>Donahoe/Mularcky in the war room, and are team's overall passion to win>than that of the Bills

GrnMtnMan
12-30-2005, 05:12 AM
Alot of posters on this site have their heart set on Cutler. Now, IF it does happen, how do you handle his first year?

:sleep: Do you sit him the year, and if so who does he sit behind?

:eek: Do you start him right away, sighting game experiance as the best teacher of football's harsh lessons?

:ko: Do you make him compete in camp for the job against a veteran?

My question is: how would YOU handle Miami's hope for the future?

... :helmet:
.. :helmet:
. :helmet: :dolphins:....... :goof:
.. :helmet:
... :helmet:

Don't draft a QB in day one and go for the skill positions that would help us immediately and wait till 07 to draft your franchise guy.

GrnMtnMan
12-30-2005, 05:14 AM
Hmmm.....

I would sign the best available FA QB to push Gus Frerotte for the starting job next year. The loser sits and Cutler is our 3rd string QB...I would give him plenty of game time in the pre season though.

Some potential FA Qb's...

Kerry Collins
Jon Kitna
Josh Mcnown...(would liked to see him here)

Wouldnt mind seeing Josh Mcnown...see what he has...at worst Gus starts..at best Josh lights it up and we then have the same problem that the Bolts have this year.....

I'd much prefer to have someone like Volek or Garrard here if we were to go that route. I'd rather have some other franchise eat the learning curve and have a young QB that is ready for game action and just needs to learn the system.

@@@
12-30-2005, 05:21 AM
You sit him for maybe for 10-11 games then give him a few starts (depending on the postseason picture) to break him in and smoothen the start to the following season

Motion
12-30-2005, 09:37 AM
I think itd be a good idea to bring in a QB who isnt yet proven but has experiance along with Cutler. A guy like Rivers would be perfect. That way if he fails, we plug in Cutler. If Rivers pans out, you have 2 good QBs which is VERY important in todays NFL...(see Jacksonville Jaguars)

Wow! Your not asking for much. Do you realize what we'd have to give up for Rivers? Our 1st this year on Cutler and at the very least next year's 1st and probably a late round pick this year for Rivers?

Silverphin
12-30-2005, 10:19 AM
I think that Ramsey and Harrington were placed in bad situations, and had to go through a coaching change which definately hurt them. Harrington has had time and has all the talent in the world, like Carr, but don't seem to have the intangible "it," which has made them likely to be better suited as backups. I think Saban has job security so possibly taking a step back next season in starting a rookie in order to go two steps forward the following year would be a better option. Alex Smith is being written off by alot of people on this site as being a "bust," after his rookie year, but young Qb's are gonna make mistakes, and the teams that let them work through them like the Giants and the Bengals did with Palmer/Manning, are atleast contenders this year. I am very familiar with the Bills, and often bring them up, and see what they did with Losman and it's an absolute joke, which is what I don't wanna see happen with the Phins and a young Qb.

Well, there you go.

kastofsna120
12-30-2005, 11:52 AM
you can't throw a blanket statement over all rookie QBs in "sit em" or "throw him to the wolves." there are plenty of examples of both kinds turning out to be great, and others turning out bad. carson palmer didn't take a snap his entire rookie season, he's looking allright. tom brady never saw the ball his rookie season either (for different reasons obviously, but it's still the same). peyton manning has started every single game in his career, and he's doing okay. same with elway. but, ryan leaf started from day 1 and ended up not so good. losman isn't looking good after a year of sitting

you have to look at the team and the situation. miami is poised to make a run at the division next year, and right now things are going well with frerotte. throw in the fact that cutler is still pretty raw as a pro-style passer, and you almost HAVE to sit him. i acn envision it perfectly. a video of the dolphins' training camp gets out where saban is yelling at cutler and calling him names. the was his mechanics are and inconsistencies with throwing the ball, i see saban getting frustrated with him pretty early. he'll be the third string QB to start the season, and the INSTANT frerotte throws a pick, finheaven will be cluttered with "put in cutler!" threads. can't wait

BigDogsHunt
12-30-2005, 12:26 PM
Brady Quinn will be the 1st QB taken in 07, if he doesn't declare this year. So unless we totally suck it up next year, which doesn't look likely at the moment, we won't even be close to having a shot at him.

From "earned" draft slot, we all hope not.

However, keep in mind the possibility of trading up to get him, if we dont have the QB on the roster we want that is.

fishypete
12-30-2005, 12:29 PM
:yes:

everything he says is speculation


Everything unless quoted by Saban is speculation....thats why it's a fan website. DOH!

Agent51
12-30-2005, 02:38 PM
Sorry for ANOTHER Cutler/QB thread, but I have a question I haven't seen asked:

Are we even INTERESTED in him?

I remember there were articles before about how we like Quinn, or about how we saw something in Printers etc etc etc, but I haven't seen anything on us scouting/being interested in Cutler. You'd think there would be SOMETHING if we were since Quinn got a writeup and he's not even coming out.

PublixSubsRule
12-30-2005, 02:42 PM
i really don't know but that is a good question i think we won't draft a qb in the first round though because our new GM has a track history of drafting good qbs in the later rounds, if we don't do that look for a trade or Free Agent signing. on draftin in the later rounds i think we would be interseted in Hagans of UV, Smith of Missouri, and Shockley of georgia

tmny99
12-30-2005, 02:56 PM
I think his name was in that article. Plus Saban has the inside track on him from being in the SEC, so he may not want others to know of the team's interest. But I think I remember seeing in that article.

kastofsna120
12-30-2005, 02:58 PM
we'll probably never know if they're interested in him unless they draft him. there will be smokescreens and reports if things come draft time, like every year

wazzy
12-30-2005, 03:04 PM
we'll probably never know if they're interested in him unless they draft him. there will be smokescreens and reports if things come draft time, like every year

Ya if this is the guy Saban wants he will not let it out of the bag!

fishfan34
12-30-2005, 03:14 PM
Yeah, Nick Saban is the last person you'll hear say that we're interested in him. If we get him, you'll never hear Nick say it.

kastofsna120
12-30-2005, 03:16 PM
Everything unless quoted by Saban is speculation....thats why it's a fan website. DOH!
actually even what saban says is speculation, as i doubt (hope) anything he says to the media is set in stone whatsoever

BigDogsHunt
12-30-2005, 03:16 PM
He's a beast...can he play QB and LB?

http://www.bodybuilders.com/jay.htm

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
:)

BlueFin
12-30-2005, 03:40 PM
He's a beast...can he play QB and LB?

http://www.bodybuilders.com/jay.htm

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
:)

No, but he knows how to take steroids.

BigDogsHunt
12-30-2005, 03:53 PM
No, but he knows how to take steroids.

Like you sig, and the whole "Jay" issue......:)

Silverphin
12-30-2005, 04:00 PM
Sorry for ANOTHER Cutler/QB thread, but I have a question I haven't seen asked:

Are we even INTERESTED in him?

I remember there were articles before about how we like Quinn, or about how we saw something in Printers etc etc etc, but I haven't seen anything on us scouting/being interested in Cutler. You'd think there would be SOMETHING if we were since Quinn got a writeup and he's not even coming out.

To answer your question....

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=109940&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Passers

We are interested in Cutler, along with Young and Quinn. But we do not have any interest in Rivers what so ever.

Caps
12-30-2005, 04:05 PM
He's a beast...can he play QB and LB?

http://www.bodybuilders.com/jay.htm

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
:)

Can we stop it with the bodybuilder jokes please? This is like the third one I've seen today. I'd rather start seeing the "Ricky's a pothead" jokes pop up again than see another pic of the "other" Jay Cutler.

Anyway, in that article that said we were interested and scouting Quinn, it also said that we were interested in Young and Cutler, and that we weren't interested in Rivers. Cutler looks like the only one out of the three mentioned that may be available to us now.

Caps
12-30-2005, 04:08 PM
From "earned" draft slot, we all hope not.

However, keep in mind the possibility of trading up to get him, if we dont have the QB on the roster we want that is.

I'm assuming that we will be a 10 or 11 win team next year, given the improvement we've seen over one year. So moving up from where we will be picking to a top 3 pick would cost a fortune, like an entire draft plus some picks the year after, which I highly doubt Saban would even consider.

BigDogsHunt
12-30-2005, 04:09 PM
Can we stop it with the bodybuilder jokes please? This is like the third one I've seen today. I'd rather start seeing the "Ricky's a pothead" jokes pop up again than see another pic of the "other" Jay Cutler.

Anyway, in that article that said we were interested and scouting Quinn, it also said that we were interested in Young and Cutler, and that we weren't interested in Rivers. Cutler looks like the only one out of the three mentioned that may be available to us now.

Can we stop it with "another" thread on all the same topics?????

BigDogsHunt
12-30-2005, 04:13 PM
I'm assuming that we will be a 10 or 11 win team next year, given the improvement we've seen over one year. So moving up from where we will be picking to a top 3 pick would cost a fortune, like an entire draft plus some picks the year after, which I highly doubt Saban would even consider.

Sure, I think it could be to rich, but next year is so far away to even consider "waiting" for Quinn and still hoping he is the real deal, that anything is possible.

I think he is a solid NFL QB prospect, but playing the fantasy "what would we do a year from now" shouldnt remove the possibility that we would have the wherewithal to make such an investment in him and acquire picks necessary to package and get him.

I agree with you for the most part that its silly to speculate and we should make other plans now and not wait and hope.

Oboy
12-30-2005, 05:34 PM
You sit him for maybe for 10-11 games then give him a few starts (depending on the postseason picture) to break him in and smoothen the start to the following season
Right Idea, but I would not quantify the amount of games he sits. I think he comes into the season as a back up. Then get him in a few of the later games once the playoff picture is done. OR if we are still in the hunt for playoffs he sits the whole year (a la Carson Palmer), remember the main reason Palmer sat the WHOLE year was that Kitna had them heading to the playoffs and they were in almost all those games.

Most rookies need some time to develop, so you do not rush him in. We have the runners and defense to not put too much pressure on him (as a rookie) just like what Pitt did last year and Chicago did most of this year.

fishypete
12-30-2005, 05:52 PM
To answer your question....

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=109940&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Passers

We are interested in Cutler, along with Young and Quinn. But we do not have any interest in Rivers what so ever.

I don't believe Saban or Mueller has interest in any QB....and they surely wouldn't tell the world so early....unless they wanted a smoke screen.

nolefin
12-30-2005, 07:09 PM
I have been thinking about the draft today, and looking at a ton of mock drafts and player rankings, and i think cutler is our guy unless he is gone, and he could be gone there are teams ahead of us that could take him and if he is gone i think saban will try his best to trade down and get more picks because the draft is deep in alot of positions we need like olb,db,o-line. so why pick greenway or huff in the 1st when you can trade down and get someone like manny lawson or zemaitis and get more picks. even the d-tackle spot is deep, ngata, rod wright, gabe watson, wroten, mahelona, o.harris, bunkley, we could get one of these guys with a 3rd. we need to get some more picks!!!

:dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins:

The Rev
12-30-2005, 07:12 PM
agreed...nice post

nolefin
12-30-2005, 07:21 PM
take a look at all the lb's

1.hawk
2.greenway
3.d'quell jackson
4.demarco ryans
5.bobby carpenter
6.manny lawson.
7.aj nickolson
8.freddie roach
9.patrick willis(sleeper imo)
10.thomas howard
11.abdul hodge


all these guys have starting potential

jtsacksyou
12-30-2005, 07:24 PM
wow where do u think crowder would have been had he stayed for his junior year?

Majpain
12-30-2005, 07:31 PM
hawk is either going to NO or Greenbay imo.

Caps
12-30-2005, 07:33 PM
I have been thinking about the draft today, and looking at a ton of mock drafts and player rankings, and i think cutler is our guy unless he is gone, and he could be gone there are teams ahead of us that could take him and if he is gone i think saban will try his best to trade down and get more picks because the draft is deep in alot of positions we need like olb,db,o-line. so why pick greenway or huff in the 1st when you can trade down and get someone like manny lawson or zemaitis and get more picks. even the d-tackle spot is deep, ngata, rod wright, gabe watson, wroten, mahelona, o.harris, bunkley, we could get one of these guys with a 3rd. we need to get some more picks!!!

:dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins:

I agree, although I hope Cutler is there for us.

nolefin
12-30-2005, 07:37 PM
wow where do u think crowder would have been had he stayed for his junior year?

with his injuries who knows???

Gonzo
12-30-2005, 07:38 PM
Why not trade down and get Cutler where he should be picked? That way we don't reach and we get picks. Sounds like a plan to me.

Caps
12-30-2005, 07:41 PM
Why not trade down and get Cutler where he should be picked? That way we don't reach and we get picks. Sounds like a plan to me.

Right now Cutler is a reach at 15-16. But come draft day, I've got $10 that says he's considered a steal where we pick.

PHINSfan
12-30-2005, 07:42 PM
Agree...very good post!!

Gonzo
12-30-2005, 07:47 PM
Right now Cutler is a reach at 15-16. But come draft day, I've got $10 that says he's considered a steal where we pick.

Possibly, but right now he would be a reach. And I bet people would still be pissed off if he wasn't picked because they believe a QB is the answer to all of our problems.

PhinSoldia
12-30-2005, 07:54 PM
i think we try to trade down...we can get a couple of QBis in later rounds and be confident that when Nick is done with them they can be good starters example Croyle, Jacobs, Shockley and we can still beef up on D and get faster on O

wazzy
12-30-2005, 08:02 PM
I think Saban will try and trade down regardless of Cutler because our GM is known for finding QB's in the later rounds also Saban wants all the draft picks he can get!

Very nice post though!

wazzy
12-30-2005, 08:03 PM
i think we try to trade down...we can get a couple of QBis in later rounds and be confident that when Nick is done with them they can be good starters example Croyle, Jacobs, Shockley and we can still beef up on D and get faster on O

My bad man I basically repeated your post never realized:(

dolfan3431
12-31-2005, 10:01 AM
We have to stop counting on drafting cutler he may not be there when we pick and Mueller doesn't like taking QB's in the first. Besides if we keep talkin about him our secret will get out;)

G-Force
12-31-2005, 10:05 AM
What is so special about Cutler anyway? It's speculation. Wait till the combine and then start arguing about who we should draft. The combine puts players on a equall playing feild and it's the scouts job to find the person that best fits us.

dolfan3431
12-31-2005, 10:06 AM
What is so special about Cutler anyway? It's speculation. Wait till the combine and then start arguing about who we should draft. The combine puts players on a equall playing feild and it's the scouts job to find the person that best fits us.

I agree we can't count on this guy until he plays against an nfl defense or has a great combine

KB21
12-31-2005, 10:10 AM
When did Randy Mueller say that he didn't like to draft quarterbacks in the first round? He's never had to draft a quarterback in the first round, but I'm just curious as to when he said that he didn't like to use first round picks on quarterbacks?

dolfan3431
12-31-2005, 10:12 AM
When did Randy Mueller say that he didn't like to draft quarterbacks in the first round? He's never had to draft a quarterback in the first round, but I'm just curious as to when he said that he didn't like to use first round picks on quarterbacks?

his history tells us he doesn't

Hellion
12-31-2005, 10:16 AM
We have to stop counting on drafting cutler he may not be there when we pick and Mueller doesn't like taking QB's in the first. Besides if we keep talkin about him our secret will get out;)


What was so special about a kid from Southern Mississippi Golden Eagles drafted in the 2nd round (33rd overall) of the 91 draft? ;)

We don't really know but you can say that about EVERY QB that is coming out and have come out of the draft.

Hellion
12-31-2005, 10:17 AM
When did Randy Mueller say that he didn't like to draft quarterbacks in the first round? He's never had to draft a quarterback in the first round, but I'm just curious as to when he said that he didn't like to use first round picks on quarterbacks?

Besides doesn't Saban have the final say?

SCall13
12-31-2005, 10:17 AM
I agree we can't count on this guy until he plays against an nfl defense or has a great combine


A great combine doesn't guarantee anything either.

Hellion
12-31-2005, 10:19 AM
A great combine doesn't guarantee anything either.

True but it can determine where they are selected. whether they succeed is another story.

G-Force
12-31-2005, 10:20 AM
What was so special about a kid from Southern Mississippi Golden Eagles drafted in the 2nd round (33rd overall)? ;)

We don't really know but you can say that about EVERY QB that is coming out and have come out of the draft.Thats why the scouts and combine are so important to getting the right qb for us if it need be through the draft. Some person from a Southern Miss might be better than the big name qb's and some of the big names might have better surrounding casts that make them look better than what they are.

SCall13
12-31-2005, 10:22 AM
True but it can determine where they are selected. whether they succeed is another story.

Yeah, the succeed part is what we're concerned with.

Hellion
12-31-2005, 10:22 AM
Thats why the scouts and combine are so important to getting the right qb for us if it need be through the draft. Some person from a Southern Miss might be better than the big name qb's and some of the big names might have better surrounding casts that make them look better than what they are.

I totally agree. It is as much a science as it is a roll of the dice.

Danny
12-31-2005, 12:02 PM
We have to stop counting on drafting cutler he may not be there when we pick and Mueller doesn't like taking QB's in the first. Besides if we keep talkin about him our secret will get out;)
I'm not taking anything for granted.I just trust Saban...if Cutler's there and he takes him then great...if not that's fine too.You build a great team with players from all rounds and you can get a good QB in any round too.I'd be very happy if we could land Greenway with our top pick and get a QB later if it comes down to that.

Ozzy rules!! :rockon: :guitar:

LarryFinFan
12-31-2005, 12:15 PM
We have to stop counting on drafting cutler he may not be there when we pick and Mueller doesn't like taking QB's in the first. Besides if we keep talkin about him our secret will get out;)


Right, and after the combine and individual workouts, there won't be ANY secrets about any player...It's not a secret we need a QB...We really showed that Gus is our savior didn't we ???


LOLOLOL

Agent51
12-31-2005, 12:17 PM
We have to stop counting on drafting cutler he may not be there when we pick and Mueller doesn't like taking QB's in the first. Besides if we keep talkin about him our secret will get out;)

Damn, after that title I was hoping your post was gonna say:

HAMMER TIME!

Hellion
12-31-2005, 12:26 PM
Damn, after that title I was hoping your post was gonna say:

HAMMER TIME!

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

:banana: Can't touch this :cpatch:

BigDogsHunt
12-31-2005, 12:36 PM
We have to stop counting on drafting cutler he may not be there when we pick and Mueller doesn't like taking QB's in the first. Besides if we keep talkin about him our secret will get out;)

Also, I think we have to be prepared that for similar reasons, that Cutler is available at our slot and we pass on him and take a more pressing need. I think he is over-hyped right now and a 1st round pick is to high to place on this kid.

I may feel differently after the Senior Bowl but right now, I think he is the 30's range of ranking individuals expected to be in the draft. And a possible 15th overall pick is overpaying!

BigDogsHunt
12-31-2005, 12:37 PM
What was so special about a kid from Southern Mississippi Golden Eagles drafted in the 2nd round (33rd overall) of the 91 draft? ;)

We don't really know but you can say that about EVERY QB that is coming out and have come out of the draft.

Funny, thats about where Cutler should go in this draft....any higher is overpaying IMO right now.

Hellion
12-31-2005, 12:45 PM
Funny, thats about where Cutler should go in this draft....any higher is overpaying IMO right now.


Possible, but anyone who drafts Vince Young will pay a higher price.IMO

BigDogsHunt
12-31-2005, 12:52 PM
Possible, but anyone who drafts Vince Young will pay a higher price.IMO

Big time.....he has a strong chance of being an overhyped college QB that doesnt cut it as an NFL 1st round QB pick.....along with so many before him.

Metal Panda
12-31-2005, 01:45 PM
...Hammer time.

Jimi
12-31-2005, 02:13 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2005/12/hammerdanceanim18og-1.gif (http://imageshack.us)

whatsburning
12-31-2005, 02:33 PM
We have to stop counting on drafting cutler he may not be there when we pick and Mueller doesn't like taking QB's in the first. Besides if we keep talkin about him our secret will get out;)

Don't worry about "our secret"... it's been exposed long ago.