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RalphX19X
01-08-2006, 09:22 PM
Bruce Gradkowski Profile (http://www.nflfans.com/x/2006/showplayer.php?key=Bruce%20Gradkowski)
I would take him in the 3rd round

Danny
01-08-2006, 09:35 PM
Maybe if he was 6'4 and 220 but at 6'2 and just over 200 I'm not intersted.I'd rather take a guy like Betts in the 6th round.He's got a great arm, is 6'4 and 225...the bad knock on him is that he'll take chances but he can learn that.You can't teach his good arm to a guy with a weak arm.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

daniel3
01-18-2006, 06:03 PM
Shouldn't you be going by talent rather than how tall he is? Plummer and Delhomme aren't the tallest guys in the league, but they get the job done.

ckparrothead
01-18-2006, 07:05 PM
He's really out there impressing the heck out of people at the East-West Shrine practices. He reminds me of a taller version of a guy everyone seemed to love last year, Stefan LeFors.

cheyannefan
01-18-2006, 07:11 PM
Living in Ohio I see a lot of Toledo games. I think Gradkowski has good mobility and fairly decent arm strenght-if not great. His bowl game was amazing, one of the best for a throwing QB this year. He has confidence and patience, which I like. And it doesen't hurt that he is from Pittsburgh, Pa.
I'm sold on him in the third, because he will get overlooked for Cutler, etc. Another MAC QB, with Roethlisberger and Frye succeding maybe the talent in that conference isn't all that bad.

ckparrothead
01-18-2006, 07:16 PM
Maybe if he was 6'4 and 220 but at 6'2 and just over 200 I'm not intersted.I'd rather take a guy like Betts in the 6th round.He's got a great arm, is 6'4 and 225...the bad knock on him is that he'll take chances but he can learn that.You can't teach his good arm to a guy with a weak arm.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

Actually, Bruce is about 6'1" even, according to Scouts Inc. (and for now anyway, I find their measurements to be extremely accurate).

But, 6'2" isn't anything to scoff at necessarily. Brett Favre and Donovan McNabb are both listed at 6'2". So is Patrick Ramsey. Kurt Warner too. I wouldn't be surprised if any of them were actually more like 6'1"

fishypete
01-18-2006, 07:22 PM
Adding to what CK stated...

01/17/06 - East-West Shrine Practice - QB Bruce Gradkowski helped his draft standing with an impressive performance Tuesday morning at the East-West Shrine Game practice. Gradkowski was joined by Tarvaris Jackson and Brett Basanez as the East's quarterbacks. Gradkowski was the star of the position, and arguably the best player on the field this morning. Contrary to earlier scouting reports, Gradkowski showed a live, accurate arm. His mobility and fiery leadership were also on display.

Nappy Roots
01-18-2006, 07:24 PM
people are going to put way to much stock into the bowl practices. its already started :shakeno:

ckparrothead
01-18-2006, 07:55 PM
people are going to put way to much stock into the bowl practices. its already started :shakeno:

Umm...what exactly is wrong with that? NFL scouts pay far more attention to what goes on at the bowl game practices than what goes on in the all-star bowl games themselves. It is an integral part of the evaluation process.

saves
01-18-2006, 09:35 PM
Living in Ohio I see a lot of Toledo games. I think Gradkowski has good mobility and fairly decent arm strenght-if not great. His bowl game was amazing, one of the best for a throwing QB this year. He has confidence and patience, which I like. And it doesen't hurt that he is from Pittsburgh, Pa.
I'm sold on him in the third, because he will get overlooked for Cutler, etc. Another MAC QB, with Roethlisberger and Frye succeding maybe the talent in that conference isn't all that bad.

I think he might work in a west coast offense because he is accurate and pretty mobile, but arm strengh is something he sorely lacks in my opinion.

saves
01-18-2006, 09:46 PM
Heres something I just found comparing Omar and Bruce. A little on the negative side for Gradowski in this particular article. Just some food for thought.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060115/SPORTS09/60115005/-1/SPORTS (http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060115/SPORTS09/60115005/-1/SPORTS)


Gradkowski flourished in UT’s pass-happy system. This past season he completed 62.3 percent of his passes for 2,469 yards and 29 touchdowns.

But the draft experts aren’t sold on his arm strength. They have him ranked 11th, 17th and 20th among quarterbacks, and they rank him anywhere from mid-to-late-round pick to an undrafted free agent.

“He’s a clipboard holder at next level, at best,” Pauline said. “He was a good college quarterback who just doesn’t have the physical skills to play in the NFL. Any pass outside of 12 yards becomes an adventure for him. The receivers were always waiting for the ball from him when they went downfield.”

Rang said one thing Gradkowski has going for him is his toughness.
“He lacks the size and arm strength to be successful in most schemes,” Rang said. “However, he is a gutty leader, with good short to medium range accuracy, and better athleticism than most give him credit for. He is a threat as a scrambler and can pass with accuracy on the move.”

Wright thinks Gradkowski could go as high as the fourth round.

“I could see him developing into a solid backup at the next level,” he said. “I doubt many will view him as a potential starter. I think of him in the Koy Detmer mold and he has stuck in the pros for a long time now.”

Nappy Roots
01-18-2006, 09:59 PM
Umm...what exactly is wrong with that? NFL scouts pay far more attention to what goes on at the bowl game practices than what goes on in the all-star bowl games themselves. It is an integral part of the evaluation process.


cause its just that, practice. players have hundreds of practices throughout the year, and a few practices is an integral part? i highly doubt it. everyone that followed the draft last year knows how one of the most dominating players in practice last year was antajj hawthorne, and he went into the 6th round, and is on a practice squad right now.

if you guys wanna put that much into a few practices where most the players are playing out of their systems, then go ahead. i just fully believe you shouldnt put to much into it. like threads like this.

ckparrothead
01-18-2006, 10:59 PM
cause its just that, practice. players have hundreds of practices throughout the year, and a few practices is an integral part? i highly doubt it. everyone that followed the draft last year knows how one of the most dominating players in practice last year was antajj hawthorne, and he went into the 6th round, and is on a practice squad right now.

if you guys wanna put that much into a few practices where most the players are playing out of their systems, then go ahead. i just fully believe you shouldnt put to much into it. like threads like this.

Well, I am sorry to say, but you are wrong. The all-star game practices are far more important than the bowl games themselves. More scouts attend, they pay more attention, and they do more in-depth evaluation. By the time they get to the game itself, they usually already know all they need to know, and they hardly even pay much attention.

It's not JUST a practice if you know that scouts from every team in the national football league are watching your every move. It's far more than that. It is your time to show them what you've got.

Nappy Roots
01-18-2006, 11:01 PM
Well, I am sorry to say, but you are wrong. The all-star game practices are far more important than the bowl games themselves. More scouts attend, they pay more attention, and they do more in-depth evaluation. By the time they get to the game itself, they usually already know all they need to know, and they hardly even pay much attention.

It's not JUST a practice if you know that scouts from every team in the national football league are watching your every move. It's far more than that. It is your time to show them what you've got.

sorry to tell you, but i aint wrong. keep falling in love over practices, im scraight.

saves
01-18-2006, 11:30 PM
sorry to tell you, but i aint wrong. keep falling in love over practices, im scraight.

I have to disagree with you bud. I noticed last year that the practices were a very valued way of evaluating players, and for some it can mean more than a spot on the draft board (Caddy). It is a great opportunity to show coaches the physical, football skills you have. If they see that you have talent they can coach, it can overshadow a bad game, because these scouts are looking for players that can be molded into their system, not ones who just happen to have a good game during the senior bowl (even though I'm sure that helps).

Nappy Roots
01-18-2006, 11:40 PM
I have to disagree with you bud. I noticed last year that the practices were a very valued way of evaluating players, and for some it can mean more than a spot on the draft board (Caddy). It is a great opportunity to show coaches the physical, football skills you have. If they see that you have talent they can coach, it can overshadow a bad game, because these scouts are looking for players that can be molded into their system, not ones who just happen to have a good game during the senior bowl (even though I'm sure that helps).



i never said that it didnt have more to do than 20 plays in a bowl game under a new system either. i dont think you can put to much stock into any of it.

fishypete
01-19-2006, 12:14 AM
i never said that it didnt have more to do than 20 plays in a bowl game under a new system either. i dont think you can put to much stock into any of it.

I believe everything has it's place....they don't watch them for 4 years or less and then only consider what they do just in practices or even in a bowl game...but they don't discount them either. If you look at the draft sites...the really good ones have what players have done for every year they have played...including High School....scouts do the very same thing. Teams want to know just about everything a player has done...on and off the field.

ckparrothead
01-19-2006, 11:40 AM
Here's a good quote to show you how important the bowl game practices can be to scouts, players, everyone. Credit goes to Fishypete on this...


Full Wednesday Practice Report
January 19, 2006

Rob Rang
SR Analyst
NFLDraftScout.com

San Antonio - Today's intra-squad scrimmage is the single most critical audition players in the East-West Shrine Game will face this week… and the players know it. How else to explain the handful of fights that broke out, a player bouncing his helmet down in frustration hard enough for it bounce eye-level next to his 6-2" teammate, and for a player to continue practicing after his jersey had been completely ripped off of him?

Ah, "NFL Day" at the Shrine Game; there is simply nothing quite like it...

Nappy Roots
01-19-2006, 11:51 AM
Here's a good quote to show you how important the bowl game practices can be to scouts, players, everyone. Credit goes to Fishypete on this...


:sidelol:

yup that shows it.



Today's intra-squad scrimmage is the single most critical audition players in the East-West Shrine Game will face this week

BlueFin
01-19-2006, 11:52 AM
I believe everything has it's place....they don't watch them for 4 years or less and then only consider what they do just in practices or even in a bowl game...but they don't discount them either. If you look at the draft sites...the really good ones have what players have done for every year they have played...including High School....scouts do the very same thing. Teams want to know just about everything a player has done...on and off the field.

Yes, but they are kids, there is this little thing called development, that is linked with experience and maturity, and makes what a kid is now much more important than what he was two years ago, or three years ago, or 4 years ago.

Also, in the case of a Jay Cutler for example, the Senior Bowl gives the scouts and GM's a week of practice and a game to see a talented guy like Cutler surrounded with a team that is equal to the opponents they will face, something a guy like Cutler hasn't had since high school.

BlueFin
01-19-2006, 11:57 AM
He's really out there impressing the heck out of people at the East-West Shrine practices. He reminds me of a taller version of a guy everyone seemed to love last year, Stefan LeFors.

Not everyone, when did he get drafted again?

BlueFin
01-19-2006, 12:03 PM
Well, I am sorry to say, but you are wrong. The all-star game practices are far more important than the bowl games themselves. More scouts attend, they pay more attention, and they do more in-depth evaluation. By the time they get to the game itself, they usually already know all they need to know, and they hardly even pay much attention.

It's not JUST a practice if you know that scouts from every team in the national football league are watching your every move. It's far more than that. It is your time to show them what you've got.

I agree with nearly everything you said with one caveat, while the player from a talent standpoint is evaluated during the practices, the intangibles which include, how a player performs when he is actually on stage, and the pressure is on, can only really be measured when he is on stage and under fire.

ckparrothead
01-19-2006, 12:49 PM
Not everyone, when did he get drafted again?

The 4th round...which is pretty darn good for a shrimpy guy that doesn't even stand at a full 6' tall and doesn't have a killer arm. The NFL generally avoids those guys like the plague.

As for the game itself, if the scouts want to see those kinds of intangibles they have dozens of game tapes they can refer to that are probably better examples than an all-star bowl game. As the article said, most scouts just watch the all-star game itself at home on television, and when they do attend or pay attention closely, it is just to check on or confirm some of the observations they made in the practices.

I agree that there are intangibles you don't necessarily see in a practice, but I have just observed that scouts and personnel people don't particularly care about them that much, as they can easily look for them in the player's game tapes with his college team.

As far as the most important events go leading up to the draft, I would say they are the following, in order of importance: NFL Combine, Wednesday & Thursday Practice Before the Senior Bowl, and "NFL Day" of the East-West Shrine Game (Wednesday before the game). These are the big events leading up to the draft for scouts and personnel men. It's like thanksgiving, christmas, and new years for them.

BlueFin
01-19-2006, 01:36 PM
The 4th round...which is pretty darn good for a shrimpy guy that doesn't even stand at a full 6' tall and doesn't have a killer arm. The NFL generally avoids those guys like the plague.

As for the game itself, if the scouts want to see those kinds of intangibles they have dozens of game tapes they can refer to that are probably better examples than an all-star bowl game. As the article said, most scouts just watch the all-star game itself at home on television, and when they do attend or pay attention closely, it is just to check on or confirm some of the observations they made in the practices.

I agree that there are intangibles you don't necessarily see in a practice, but I have just observed that scouts and personnel people don't particularly care about them that much, as they can easily look for them in the player's game tapes with his college team.

As far as the most important events go leading up to the draft, I would say they are the following, in order of importance: NFL Combine, Wednesday & Thursday Practice Before the Senior Bowl, and "NFL Day" of the East-West Shrine Game (Wednesday before the game). These are the big events leading up to the draft for scouts and personnel men. It's like thanksgiving, christmas, and new years for them.

Yeah, I just think the game itself(Senior Bowl) can sometimes expose some of the smaller school players and garner them more attention, I've also heard scouts speak of the importance of getting to see some of these smaller school players for the first time in a game against top talent, lets face it, dominating in division 2 is not exactly the same thing as dominating division 1.

In the case of Rivers and Matt Jones last year, the game put an exclamation point on what they thought about their talent. Jones for example, played receiver in an actual game for the first time in the Senior Bowl.

I can also remember instances in the past, Don Shula said John Offerdahl from Western Michigan caught his eye with a tackle he made in the game.

So, I don't think the game is quite as insignificant as you make it sound.

Also, I think the various Pro-Days at the colleges should probably rank pretty high in that list you mentioned, especially in light of the fact that many players don't even perform at the combine anymore.

Nappy Roots
01-19-2006, 04:27 PM
Lefors measured in at over 6 ft im pretty sure.

ckparrothead
01-19-2006, 04:39 PM
Yeah, I just think the game itself(Senior Bowl) can sometimes expose some of the smaller school players and garner them more attention, I've also heard scouts speak of the importance of getting to see some of these smaller school players for the first time in a game against top talent, lets face it, dominating in division 2 is not exactly the same thing as dominating division 1.

In the case of Rivers and Matt Jones last year, the game put an exclamation point on what they thought about their talent. Jones for example, played receiver in an actual game for the first time in the Senior Bowl.

I can also remember instances in the past, Don Shula said John Offerdahl from Western Michigan caught his eye with a tackle he made in the game.

So, I don't think the game is quite as insignificant as you make it sound.

Also, I think the various Pro-Days at the colleges should probably rank pretty high in that list you mentioned, especially in light of the fact that many players don't even perform at the combine anymore.


Well I didn't say the game itself is completely insignificant. The scouts and personnel guys may be at home watching it on their TVs but they are still watching it.