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John Biello
01-15-2006, 09:00 PM
one performance doesnt make a career, but god he was just, a man among boys vs usc. young would mean everything to that franchise, they are going to riot if vince isnt there pick

305 LoCaL VoCaL
01-15-2006, 09:07 PM
Yea just like Saban made it very clear he was taken edwards

AquaAssasin
01-15-2006, 09:08 PM
one performance doesnt make a career, but god he was just, a man among boys vs usc. young would mean everything to that franchise, they are going to riot if vince isnt there pick

no he wasnt he just played against a weak usc defense.

Pink_Dove
01-15-2006, 09:13 PM
Pretty logical. No reason to think this should put an end to the Carr rumours. Kubiak hasn't even moved into his office yet and they're declaring Bush is the man. What's the deal ?

IMO, basically, just starting the rumour mill, so they might be able to drive up the price if they trade that number 1 pick. A desperate team like the Jets might offer them something good, but that wouldn't happen if they said Vince Young's the pick, because that would suit NO and Tennesse who would go with Leinart and Bush.

They only win by declaring Bush will go number 1, which was the general consensus anyway before the Rose Bowl.

Metal Panda
01-15-2006, 09:15 PM
they'll take Bush or trade down.

btw this should be in the draft thread

BrazForPhins
01-15-2006, 09:46 PM
they might want Vince Young and could be saying that to see if some team trade up with them to get Bush, specially the jets, so they can get young and more picks. They could still grab vince with the 2nd,3rd or 4th pick imo

sports24/7
01-15-2006, 10:22 PM
I just find it hard to believe that any team would commit this early before the draft. Thats just insane..
If indeed they want Bush at #1 why wouldn't they guarantee him. If they tell him no and he stays in school they are SOL.

Boik14
01-16-2006, 12:03 AM
They are so much better off trading the pick for more draft picks... From a football decision standpoint, this pick would make no sense at all in my opinion... They're better off trading down to #4 or #5 and taking D' Brickashaw.... ^^^^ What he said!

Danny
01-16-2006, 12:55 AM
They can tell him anything they want but they could draft somebody else or trade down....in any event it doesn't matter to us....we need to look at who's gonna be there at 16 and after.That's what really matters to us.Greenway,Cutler,Huff...those guys could be there for us tho they could all be gone too.Is very hard to say who we'll take but someone very good should drop to us...every year someone does drop...could it be Ngata?...it'll be fun tho knowing that we have our top 4 picks for the first time since Wanny was here.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

dominizzo
01-16-2006, 01:02 AM
Poor Domanick Davis I wonder where he will end up

Motion
01-16-2006, 01:05 AM
Poor Domanick Davis I wonder where he will end up

He's going nowhere. If you think Reggie Bush is an every down back your crazy.

SMadison29
01-16-2006, 01:33 AM
He's going nowhere. If you think Reggie Bush is an every down back your crazy.

He is an every down back. Why isn't he? That's just something people pick on him about & it's bull****. It's the same BS people argued about Ronnie & Ronnie is fine. Ronnie had fewer touches than Reggie did their final years, & also in their next to final year. Reggie averaged 15 carries, 3 receptions, & 3 returns a game. That argument is a bad one.

Boik14
01-16-2006, 01:41 AM
He is an every down back. Why isn't he? That's just something people pick on him about & it's bull****. It's the same BS people argued about Ronnie & Ronnie is fine. Ronnie had fewer touches than Reggie did their final years, & also in their next to final year. Reggie averaged 15 carries, 3 receptions, & 3 returns a game. That argument is a bad one.Not to mention they intentionally kept the workload on Reggie lighter than it would normally be for a back because they had the luxury of having LenDale White in the same backfield. Because they have 2 RB's who will go in rd 1 they have a luxury few teams in college football ever have. Its not that Reggie can handle the ball 20-25x a game when he has to, the whole point is he didnt have to so why risk him getting hurt?

Motion
01-16-2006, 01:47 AM
He is an every down back. Why isn't he? That's just something people pick on him about & it's bull****. It's the same BS people argued about Ronnie & Ronnie is fine. Ronnie had fewer touches than Reggie did their final years, & also in their next to final year. Reggie averaged 15 carries, 3 receptions, & 3 returns a game. That argument is a bad one.

Very bad comparison. I talking purely about build. We'll see how well he does.

Motion
01-16-2006, 01:48 AM
Not to mention they intentionally kept the workload on Reggie lighter than it would normally be for a back because they had the luxury of having LenDale White in the same backfield. Because they have 2 RB's who will go in rd 1 they have a luxury few teams in college football ever have. Its not that Reggie can handle the ball 20-25x a game when he has to, the whole point is he didnt have to so why risk him getting hurt?

Which goes to show he has yet to prove he could be an every down back.

Boik14
01-16-2006, 01:58 AM
Which goes to show he has yet to prove he could be an every down back.
- Ronnie had that last year where people doubted his ability to carry the rock 20+ times a game. Sometimes there are good and bad points to the circumstances a player is in. In Reggie's case there's less tread on his tires (important b/c of the RB burnout factor), and scouts were still able to see enough of him to know that he is a legit 1st rd pick.
- Bush has had games where he carried 20-25x. they just were few and far between.

the only downpoints to Reggie Bush are that he still dances too much in the backfield on occassion and that all the sweeps and tosses behind USC's talented OL wont work as well behind a crumby Texans OL. Not to mention on the NFL level Reggie isnt going to be able to simply outrace opponents to the edge. At the same time he's an immensely talented player who is simply too good to pass on. He's a home run threat every time he has the ball and those types of players are so few and far between.

Motion
01-16-2006, 02:04 AM
- Ronnie had that last year where people doubted his ability to carry the rock 20+ times a game. Sometimes there are good and bad points to the circumstances a player is in. In Reggie's case there's less tread on his tires (important b/c of the RB burnout factor), and scouts were still able to see enough of him to know that he is a legit 1st rd pick.
- Bush has had games where he carried 20-25x. they just were few and far between.

the only downpoints to Reggie Bush are that he still dances too much in the backfield on occassion and that all the sweeps and tosses behind USC's talented OL wont work as well behind a crumby Texans OL. Not to mention on the NFL level Reggie isnt going to be able to simply outrace opponents to the edge. At the same time he's an immensely talented player who is simply too good to pass on. He's a home run threat every time he has the ball and those types of players are so few and far between.

I agree 100%, I'm not downing Bush's ability whatsoever. And the Ronnie comparisons mean nothing to me personally. Your talking skill, I'm talking size, durability, and endurance.

Boik14
01-16-2006, 02:12 AM
I agree 100%, I'm not downing Bush's ability whatsoever. And the Ronnie comparisons mean nothing to me personally. Your talking skill, I'm talking size, durability, and endurance. Size hes a little taller than the average NFL back (typically 5'8" to 5'11") and about the average weight (between 205-215). Endurance wise he's on the field plenty, he just doesnt get the carry all the time. Endurance wise he sees plenty of 4th quarter action anyway. Sharing carries with Davis will allow him time to adjust to the NFL game and build those traits up further.

Motion
01-16-2006, 02:15 AM
Size hes a little taller than the average NFL back (typically 5'8" to 5'11") and about the average weight (between 205-215). Endurance wise he's on the field plenty, he just doesnt get the carry all the time. Endurance wise he sees plenty of 4th quarter action anyway. Sharing carries with Davis will allow him time to adjust to the NFL game and build those traits up further.

Yeah I can see him being a 3rd down/change of pace back but running between the tackles 15+ times a game for a 16 game season? I'm interested to see how well he handles that.

AquaAssasin
01-16-2006, 03:03 AM
If indeed they want Bush at #1 why wouldn't they guarantee him. If they tell him no and he stays in school they are SOL.

i think its a ploy to get more picks. They tell everyone that they are going to pick him and start to get other teams worried and someone stupid enough too give up alot of picks will jump. No player is worth giving up a couple of drafts picks are worth it.

BALLS DEEP
01-16-2006, 11:18 AM
Reggie Bush will be a fantastic player. But, If I were one of the candidates for the HC job in Houston I'd be kinda p!ssed! I wouldn't want the choice made for me before I even get the job.

pigskinguy
01-16-2006, 11:52 AM
Yeah I can see him being a 3rd down/change of pace back but running between the tackles 15+ times a game for a 16 game season? I'm interested to see how well he handles that.

Did ytou just call Reggie Bush a 3rd down/change of pace back? That's just silly.

TexPhinPhan
01-16-2006, 12:20 PM
Not saying Texans won't ultimately take Bush #1 but this article makes more sense than the ESPN article from last week.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3589395.html

TexPhinPhan

finfansince72
01-16-2006, 12:37 PM
I do think its kind of ridiculous for anyone to be saying that they know for sure what the Texans are going to do when they don't have a coach yet. Id say the chances are good that Bush will be the #1 overall pick but its not money in the bank.

mbsinmisc
01-16-2006, 01:29 PM
I think Pete Carroll is full of crap. There is no way anyone would promise a coach his player would go first overall. This is just Pete trying to boost his own stock as an insider. A team with no coach, and all the options that the first overall pick entails would be a fool to promise anyone anything. Pete is a tool.

fishypete
01-16-2006, 01:34 PM
All in the name of the game....

mbsinmisc
01-16-2006, 01:35 PM
Reggie Bush is a little better version of Brian Westbrook. A good NFL player. Not a dominant player.

fishypete
01-16-2006, 01:37 PM
Size hes a little taller than the average NFL back (typically 5'8" to 5'11") and about the average weight (between 205-215). Endurance wise he's on the field plenty, he just doesnt get the carry all the time. Endurance wise he sees plenty of 4th quarter action anyway. Sharing carries with Davis will allow him time to adjust to the NFL game and build those traits up further.

In college he didn't get hit alot....in the NFL....He'll get hit hard and often.

PhinBeck
01-16-2006, 02:10 PM
Not saying Texans won't ultimately take Bush #1 but this article makes more sense than the ESPN article from last week.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3589395.html

TexPhinPhan


Of course they arent guarenteeing they will take him, A that would redcue their options, would hurt in the contract negotiations as well. If Bush nows unequivocantly the Texans are drafting him, he can be harder in his stance. Since Houston has the #1 and could take a player from a choice of three, it is to their advantage to play their choice off on the other 3, especially when NO is sitting next and noone wants to go there with their situation the way it is right now. One advantage in having teh #1 pick is you can negotiate with the player before the draft and have a contract in place when the pick is made. If you keep all your options open, you can give yourself an neg tool. If you tell a player w/o condition he is teh pick and then dont, you get a bad rep among players and noone wants to negotiate with you causing you to lose out on players. It is not a rep teams want. By saying it isnt a guarentee but that you believe right now that is where you are going, leaves you an out.

dominizzo
01-16-2006, 02:17 PM
I have a gut feeling that The JEts are gonna trade up an grab him

Danny
01-16-2006, 04:57 PM
I just don't understand why people on here put so much stock on what they read and hear.Nobody know what's gonna happen on draft day....is always been like that and is always gonna be like that.

Ozzy rules!!
:rockon: :guitar:

BigDogsHunt
01-16-2006, 05:30 PM
Looks like the Carr rumors are just that...rumors. Im shocked Houston bypasses Young...if Bush doesnt pan out....its gonna get real ugly in the lone star state.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2293458

If somehow they went with Young and he didnt pan out, its would be just as ugly for the lone star state....its a crap shoot, and needs indicate a OL over RB or QB so not sure if they arent rolling the dice either way vs. taking Ferguson over both of them and sucking it up with 1st pick money to a lineman.

Presuming they dont trade down and still take DF!

BigDogsHunt
01-16-2006, 05:32 PM
They are so much better off trading the pick for more draft picks... From a football decision standpoint, this pick would make no sense at all in my opinion... They're better off trading down to #4 or #5 and taking D' Brickashaw....

:yeahthat:

Boik14
01-17-2006, 12:07 AM
In college he didn't get hit alot....in the NFL....He'll get hit hard and often. Thats BS, RB's get hit hard and often regardless of the level of play. Its the nature of the position.

Motion
01-17-2006, 12:58 AM
Thats BS, RB's get hit hard and often regardless of the level of play. Its the nature of the position.

This is true but how often does Bush run between the tackles a game?

Motion
01-17-2006, 12:59 AM
Did ytou just call Reggie Bush a 3rd down/change of pace back? That's just silly.

So your saying you think he can be a dominant between the tackles every down back in the NFL?

Boik14
01-17-2006, 01:00 AM
This is true but how often does Bush run between the tackles a game?actually USC did make it a focus in their offense to let Reggie prove he could do it. It was written up before the season started because the media's rumor mill was saying reggie couldnt run between the tackles.

Boik14
01-17-2006, 01:01 AM
So your saying you think he can be a dominant between the tackles every down back in the NFL?He can certainly do at least what Marshall Faulk did in terms of running between the tackles Look im no bush fan but this is getting ridiculous. This guy is not Blair Thomas revisited

Motion
01-17-2006, 01:03 AM
He can certainly do at least what Marshall Faulk did in terms of running between the tackles Look im no bush fan but this is getting ridiculous. This guy is not Blair Thomas revisited

Only one way to find out.

Boik14
01-17-2006, 01:08 AM
Only one way to find out. true. At least if he is a bust, by some stretch of the imagination, he wont be a dolphin when it happens and thats what counts. :D

Motion
01-17-2006, 01:10 AM
true. At least if he is a bust, by some stretch of the imagination, he wont be a dolphin when it happens and thats what counts. :D

Right on. I'm not saying he's gonna be a bust by any means. All I'm saying is I question is ability to be an every down/between the tackles back in the NFL. He's got phenomenal talent no doubt bu the NFL is another level.

Batman13
01-17-2006, 01:40 AM
Reggie Bush will not be a Texan.

fishypete
01-17-2006, 03:31 AM
Thats BS, RB's get hit hard and often regardless of the level of play. Its the nature of the position.

You can only get hit hard if you play all of the game....something Bush didn't. He's a great talent...but even great talent plays differently from College to the pro's...and if he didn't play complete full games in college...he'll have to prove he can in the NFL. Against College teams that had lousy defense's he made them look sick....he won't find that too often in the NFL.

If I was the GM....I'd take White...over Bush...and what ever picks I could.

Motion
01-17-2006, 03:33 AM
Or not.........................


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3589395.html

SMadison29
01-17-2006, 03:35 AM
This is true but how often does Bush run between the tackles a game?

More than you think. Most of his long runs were between the tackles because once he got to the second level he'd bounce outside & take it the distance. Did you see either the Fresno State or UCLA games?

Motion
01-17-2006, 03:40 AM
More than you think. Most of his long runs were between the tackles because once he got to the second level he'd bounce outside & take it the distance. Did you see either the Fresno State or UCLA games?

Caught a little of the FS game. Still an open-ended debate until he steps on the NFL field. It will definitely be interesting to see.

SMadison29
01-17-2006, 03:53 AM
Very bad comparison. I talking purely about build. We'll see how well he does.

Bad comparison? Reggie is 205, that's plenty big enough.
Curtis Martin is 210
Willie Parker is 209 - he didn't play much in college (70 carries junior year, 48 as a senior)
Julius Jones is 211
Brian Westbrook is 205
Tiki Barber is 200
Clinton Portis is 205
Warrick Dunn is 180 - used much like Reggie in college
Marshall Faulk was 210
Barry Sanders was 200


Which goes to show he has yet to prove he could be an every down back.

He had 200 carries this year, 37 receptions, 41 returns, that IS an every down back. I guess LenDale White has yet to prove he's an every down back because he only had 197 carries this year. This argument doesn't hold water which is why Reggie was the #1 rated player out of high school & the #1 player heading into the draft.


I agree 100%, I'm not downing Bush's ability whatsoever. And the Ronnie comparisons mean nothing to me personally. Your talking skill, I'm talking size, durability, and endurance.

Reggie had 20+ touches in 7 games this year & running it at 8 yards a pop should prove his endurance. In more than 900 touches in his college career he was NEVER injured, so durability is not an issue. Durability was an issue for Cadillac because he was injured every year, Reggie has never been injured.

Nappy Roots
01-17-2006, 03:59 AM
Bad comparison? Reggie is 205, that's plenty big enough.
Curtis Martin is 210
Willie Parker is 209 - he didn't play much in college (70 carries junior year, 48 as a senior)
Julius Jones is 211
Brian Westbrook is 205
Tiki Barber is 200
Clinton Portis is 205
Warrick Dunn is 180 - used much like Reggie in college
Marshall Faulk was 210
Barry Sanders was 200



He had 200 carries this year, 37 receptions, 41 returns, that IS an every down back. I guess LenDale White has yet to prove he's an every down back because he only had 197 carries this year. This argument doesn't hold water which is why Reggie was the #1 rated player out of high school & the #1 player heading into the draft.



Reggie had 20+ touches in 7 games this year & running it at 8 yards a pop should prove his endurance. In more than 900 touches in his college career he was NEVER injured, so durability is not an issue. Durability was an issue for Cadillac because he was injured every year, Reggie has never been injured.



:hail:

exactly. been trying to say this, but no one listens 2 me

Motion
01-17-2006, 04:01 AM
Bad comparison? Reggie is 205, that's plenty big enough.
Curtis Martin is 210
Willie Parker is 209 - he didn't play much in college (70 carries junior year, 48 as a senior)
Julius Jones is 211
Brian Westbrook is 205
Tiki Barber is 200
Clinton Portis is 205
Warrick Dunn is 180 - used much like Reggie in college
Marshall Faulk was 210
Barry Sanders was 200



He had 200 carries this year, 37 receptions, 41 returns, that IS an every down back. I guess LenDale White has yet to prove he's an every down back because he only had 197 carries this year. This argument doesn't hold water which is why Reggie was the #1 rated player out of high school & the #1 player heading into the draft.



Reggie had 20+ touches in 7 games this year & running it at 8 yards a pop should prove his endurance. In more than 900 touches in his college career he was NEVER injured, so durability is not an issue. Durability was an issue for Cadillac because he was injured every year, Reggie has never been injured.

Good points, I never doubted his production at the college level. What I question is his running style and durability at the NFL level.Yes he has plenty of touches, but how many of them are sweeps or trick plays? I just wanna see how he would hold up after 20 carries between the tackles a game for a 16 game season.

Jaj
01-17-2006, 05:14 AM
There's no doubt in my mind that Bush will weigh 210 before the NFL draft with his 6-0 frame. He'll be fine.

fishypete
01-17-2006, 12:27 PM
It's a Texas stutter step

Houston mulling Young over Bush



Vince Young has put his hometown Houston Texans in a difficult position: How can they not take him with the first pick in the draft after he won the national championship?
This was supposed to be easy for the Texans. They finished 2-14, earning the No.1 pick as the winner of what was supposed to be the Reggie Bush Derby - he's a once-a-decade player who has been compared to Gale Sayers and Tony Dorsett. But Young's spectacular Rose Bowl and decision to skip his senior year at Texas have made things much more complicated.

"We have a lot of good options," GM Charley Casserly said.

Here's what it comes down to for the Texans: Would they rather have David Carr and Bush; or Young and Domanick Davis coming off arthroscopic knee surgery and the No. 1 pick they can get by trading Carr.

Our choice: Bring in Bush to go with Carr and WR Andre Johnson, then draft the best remaining offensive tackle at the top of the second round to keep Carr on his feet and you just might have an explosive offense.

Carr, the top pick in 2002, is just 16-43, but before Young entered the draft, the Texans planned to exercise his $8 million option bonus to trigger three more years on his contract. Carr has been a disappointment, but it's not all his fault - he's been sacked 208 times in four years. He has a lot of talent and will get better coaching when the Texans officially announce Gary Kubiak, the Broncos' offensive coordinator, as their new head coach. Kubiak, like Young many years later, was a Houston high school football star.

When Young had 467 yards of offense (267 passing, 200 rushing) in the Rose Bowl and five days later announced he was declaring for the draft, Texans fans forgot about Bush. They want Young.

Now there is incredible pressure on the Texans to take the hometown kid, who grew up a few miles from Reliant Stadium. "I have no choice over that," Young said. "It would be wonderful to play at home. Whatever team decides to pick me, I'm going to go in there and work."

If Young were not from Houston, the Texans definitely would take Bush. But if they don't take him, it could be a public relations nightmare for a team that can't afford it. Still, you can't let the fans make the pick. Young is never going to be able to run in the NFL like he did at Texas. The linebackers are too big and fast and it's not healthy to keep taking off. He's still a work in progress as a quarterback with a sidearm delivery. He played predominantly out of the shotgun. His upside, of course, is that he's big, has a strong arm and is a great leader. He could be a dynamic NFL quarterback and save the local franchise.

Young, Bush and Matt Leinart will be the first three picks in one of the most spectacular top-of-the-order drafts ever. Of course, the Jets have the fourth pick with little chance of moving up for Bush no matter how this plays out. They are likely not interested in either QB.

Here are some possible scenarios:


The Texans draft Bush. The Saints then would take Young or Leinart. The Titans would be happy with either QB: Offensive coordinator Norm Chow coached Leinart at USC and Titans QB Steve McNair is Young's mentor. Keep in mind Kubiak is coming from Denver, which plugs any running back into its system and gets 1,000 yards out of him. That could keep Kubiak away from Bush.

The Texans take Young and trade Carr. They could either franchise Carr to keep his rights for a trade or exercise the option and pay the $8 million. The option triggers a three-year, $16 million contract, which would be attractive to a team looking for a starting quarterback. He would bring back a first-round pick. One rumor has the Dolphins trading Ricky Williams and their first-round pick (No.16), to Houston for Carr.

The Texans draft Young, exercise the option on Carr and let Young learn for one year behind him. That's not likely because they would have too much money tied up in one position and have the potential for an explosive QB controversy.

Trade the pick: Can you imagine the Texans passing on Young and Bush? If that happens, they might as well follow the Oilers and move to Tennessee.

Originally published on January 15, 2006