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View Full Version : How Much Is Too Much ??



LarryFinFan
01-26-2006, 04:26 PM
How much is too much to give up for us to move into the top say, 8-10 position to get one of the 3 big QBs ?? I'm assuming that Cutler will continue to move up the boards with a good Senior bowl and individual workouts. So, if Leinart, Young or Cutler are available still at 8, what would be ok for Saban to give up ??

Is our #16, RW and another pick too much ??

Would you be dissapointed in Saban if he went that route and had to give up multiple picks to get one of those guys (assuming they are all ranked equally well) ??

Pocoloco
01-26-2006, 04:41 PM
No, I don't think that's too much. If you feel like any one of those Qbs is the real thing, then you don't think twice about doing it.
If you move players, you gotta have some sense of what they're worth. You'd have to look at the draft value chart, but I think the Ricky Williams is worth that same amount of points as a mid-3rd, Sam Madison as a late 5th. I can't realistically see us packaging anyone else into a trade-up affair, and I know Saban loves to have as many draft picks as possible.

SF Dolphin Fan
01-26-2006, 04:42 PM
This is such a deep draft I'd hate to see Miami give up a lot of picks to move up. If Saban is convinced that Jay Cutler is the guy to take the franchise to the next level, fine, but I think we'd be okay with some of the second tier guys as well.

Jaj
01-26-2006, 04:43 PM
This is such a deep draft I'd hate to see Miami give up a lot of picks to move up. If Saban is convinced that Jay Cutler is the guy to take the franchise to the next level, fine, but I think we'd be okay with some of the second tier guys as well.

Ya blowing picks in this draft would be absolutely stupid. If Ricky is all it takes sure, but after that ummm no..., not for Cutler.

Flyer22
01-26-2006, 04:43 PM
If Saban is sure the QB will be a good starter here, the most I'd give up is Ricky, our 1st rounder, and a 2nd day pick. Otherwise, I wouldn't trade up. Having the rushing attack of RW and RB would really help with the development of whatever quarterback we do draft.

LarryFinFan
01-26-2006, 04:46 PM
I guess that's what I'm getting at. We did pretty good with a mediocre-at-best QB. But to get thru the next level, we'll need a much better QB situation. I know that Saban is not fond of giving up draft picks and given his success last year, I don't know that I want him to either. But, it would have to be tempting to him to move up. I know people on the FinHeaven will probably crucify him if he does give up a lot to get one of them...I wouldn't be as concerned if he did though...

BigDogsHunt
01-26-2006, 04:51 PM
Would you be dissapointed in Saban if he went that route and had to give up multiple picks to get one of those guys (assuming they are all ranked equally well) ??

At first, yup.

Then I would call in a Priest to perform an exorcism to remove Rick Spielman from his soul.

Then I would have to wait for an explanation as to what Saban was thinking, and why he made what appears to be a move out of desperation.

Then I might understand it, and spend the preseason at the local church praying it works out ok.

Dolfan_Noles
01-26-2006, 08:56 PM
Im starting to get increasingly excited about Brodie Croyle or Charlie Whitehurst...both really look like they could be a second round gem, and if we could still get a tackle or Huff in the first round....ohhhh...

Dolfansal
01-26-2006, 11:09 PM
Have you all seen the crap we have had behind center since dan left? I would give #16, ricky, another pick and my left nut to get a franchise qb.

I know some of you don't think Cutler is a franchise qb. I don't think watching football and playing madden makes you an evaluater of NFL talent. I am sure Saban and the staff are all doing thier homework.

Roman529
01-26-2006, 11:32 PM
I would give up our first rounder and RW for Cutler, but that's all I would give up....we can't ruin the team for any one player.

PhinSoldia
01-26-2006, 11:40 PM
Have you all seen the crap we have had behind center since dan left? I would give #16, ricky, another pick and my left nut to get a franchise qb.

I know some of you don't think Cutler is a franchise qb. I don't think watching football and playing madden makes you an evaluater of NFL talent. I am sure Saban and the staff are all doing thier homework.

i think your going to need that sir

Pocoloco
01-27-2006, 01:14 AM
[QUOTE=Dolfansal]Have you all seen the crap we have had behind center since dan left? I would give #16, ricky, another pick and my left nut to get a franchise qb. [QUOTE]

I'd give em your left nut too

Nappy Roots
01-27-2006, 01:17 AM
No, I don't think that's too much. If you feel like any one of those Qbs is the real thing, then you don't think twice about doing it.


exactly, franchise QBs arent very easy to find. if Saban is within reach and trades something to get a franchise QB, you have to do it with even blinking.

Danny
01-27-2006, 02:32 AM
We need to keep one thing in mind about Croyle.....there're gonna be 3 QB's taken in the 1st round and they'll all be gone before our pick at 16.....but they'll still be a couple of teams that want a QB and they'll be picking ahead of us in the 2nd round so one of those teams could draft Croyle ahead of us in the 2nd round.Lets say the lions take Cutler then Arizona takes a RB....they'd still need a QB and they could take Croyle so he's not even a sure thing for us in the 2nd round now that he's moving up the charts.....so what do we do? I'd say move down, get an extra pick in round 2 and take Croyle in the 20's or else, we'll be left with noone.


Ozzy rules!!

Motion
01-27-2006, 07:45 AM
We need a franchise QB, plain and simple. I'm not about giving up the whole draft for one, a la Ditka with Ricky. But if Saban feels confident enough about a certain guy, I'd be okay with our 1st, Ricky, and another pick. I have my doubts it will happen though.

adamprez2003
01-27-2006, 09:39 AM
I'm all for it if Saban and Mularkey are sure they can fix his foot positioning problems. You make that kinda trade you better be damn sure you have the real deal. I'm pretty confident he'll be good in his third year but they're the ones who have to deal with the repercussions if they're wrong. Getting a franchise QB is worth whatever we give up. If you wanna play - you gotta pay

NLude33
01-27-2006, 11:14 AM
My feeling: If we are going to trade up, and give a bunch of picks, lets trade up to get Leinart or Young, who at this point are better prospects. If we have to trade up to #6 to get Cutler, lets just go to #2 or #3 and get a QB.

Motion
01-27-2006, 11:17 AM
My feeling: If we are going to trade up, and give a bunch of picks, lets trade up to get Leinart or Young, who at this point are better prospects. If we have to trade up to #6 to get Cutler, lets just go to #2 or #3 and get a QB.

Do you realize how much difference there is in compensation between #6 and #2????

And at this point I think its pretty obvious who the best QB prospect is. Haven't heard much about Leinart and Young lately.

daniel3
01-27-2006, 11:21 AM
Haven't heard much about Leinart and Young lately.

That's because Young is polishing his rose bowl trophy where he put up the best performance of any single college player in recent history and Leinart is polishing his heisman and past rose bowl trophies. If Cutler had that resume, you'd probably not be hearing much about him until combine either.

Motion
01-27-2006, 11:23 AM
That's because Young is polishing his rose bowl trophy where he put up the best performance of any single college player in recent history and Leinart is polishing his heisman and past rose bowl trophies. If Cutler had that resume, you'd probably not be hearing much about him until combine either.

:lol: All of which means NOTHING in the NFL.

NLude33
01-27-2006, 11:24 AM
Do you realize how much difference there is in compensation between #6 and #2????

And at this point I think its pretty obvious who the best QB prospect is. Haven't heard much about Leinart and Young lately.

Yes I do, but I think Leinart and Young are that much better than Cutler. Cutler may very well be very good in the NFL some day, after he learns to work his feet, move laterally in the pocket, develope some touch on the ball, and make good decisions. That is a lot of stuff to work on. Leinart would of course take his lumps, but he really has no flaws. And after his rookie redshirt, Leinart would be instant good-very good. Cutler will take some time.

NLude33
01-27-2006, 11:28 AM
:lol: All of which means NOTHING in the NFL.

I don't know about that. Winning means a lot. Leinart and Young have both won championships, and played their best with the spotlight on them. I think that means a lot. How is Cutler going to react if he is starting as a rookie on Monday Night Football? For Leinart and Young, its just another day at the office.

cowtowndick
01-27-2006, 11:33 AM
That's because Young is polishing his rose bowl trophy where he put up the best performance of any single college player in recent history and Leinart is polishing his heisman and past rose bowl trophies. If Cutler had that resume, you'd probably not be hearing much about him until combine either.

...so the fact that you're starting to hear reports that cutler has moved past leinhart and young as the top qb prospect isn't important? do you think leinhart or young would be where they are if they'd have played for vanderbilt? especially leinhart - certainly helps your career when you have two other heisman candidates in the backfield. and young - is his style of qb'ing gonna work in the nfl? some say no. cutler's not perfect, but i think you're fooling yourself if you think leinhart and young are that far ahead of him.

cowtowndick
01-27-2006, 11:38 AM
I don't know about that. Winning means a lot. Leinart and Young have both won championships, and played their best with the spotlight on them. I think that means a lot. How is Cutler going to react if he is starting as a rookie on Monday Night Football? For Leinart and Young, its just another day at the office.

...if winning means a lot (and of course it does), then how do you think leinhart and young will react when they're on teams that will suck for awhile (which, being a top ten pick, will be pretty much guaranteed)? how is matt gonna react when he's not able to hang at the playboy mansion, and is getting his a** kicked on a 4 - 12 team? i think the fact that cutler picked himself up, went back into the huddle and made a brutal team somewhat respectable had to be more than a little character building. i can see young having some pretty solid nerves, but leinhart's got 'soft' written all over him...

cowtowndick
01-27-2006, 11:41 AM
what about our #16 and madison to move up into the top 10?

Pocoloco
01-27-2006, 11:54 AM
Madison would only move you up a spot or two at most. Ricky will be tempting to the right team (i.e. Arizona). You'll probably have to throw in at least a 3rd or a 4th too.

Motion
01-27-2006, 12:01 PM
I don't know about that. Winning means a lot. Leinart and Young have both won championships, and played their best with the spotlight on them. I think that means a lot. How is Cutler going to react if he is starting as a rookie on Monday Night Football? For Leinart and Young, its just another day at the office.

You have a point but its pointless to bring up college trophies as back up for a player's credentials. How many Heisman winning Qbs are starting in the NFL right now? Cutler may have not been in the national championship game in college but he played in a tougher conference than both Young and Leinart and I seriously doubt he'd have stage fright.

adamprez2003
01-27-2006, 12:09 PM
Leinart seems to have little risk about him. It seems if you draft Leinart you're going to get a good to very good QB who can probably start in the latter half of his rookie season. Cutler and Young however have an upside that could make them great but also have the potential to be busts. Neither is ready to take the reigns his first season and probably both won't start playing well until their third season. A G.M. that takes Cutler or Young over Leinart will certainly prove he has guts since if one of them is a bust that GM will be out of a job

vinivedivichi
01-27-2006, 12:15 PM
I think I'd rather keep Ricky and trade our next year's first if we have to. Although I absolutely despised Wannys giving away our firsts every year, this would make a lot of sense IMO. This years draft is one you want to have as many picks as possible, and if we can get our future QB and keep our picks we are in good shape. Next year it will be tough not having a first, but if we fill some holes in this years draft we'll be ok.

daniel3
01-27-2006, 12:34 PM
...so the fact that you're starting to hear reports that cutler has moved past leinhart and young as the top qb prospect isn't important? do you think leinhart or young would be where they are if they'd have played for vanderbilt? especially leinhart - certainly helps your career when you have two other heisman candidates in the backfield. and young - is his style of qb'ing gonna work in the nfl? some say no. cutler's not perfect, but i think you're fooling yourself if you think leinhart and young are that far ahead of him.

I didn't say they were far ahead of him, I just was implying that its too much of a gamble to think that he will be better than them. Especially given that they have accomplished so much more. I mean he could end up being far better, but so could a number of the other QBs in the draft. You go with the more sure and proven prospect and right now thats those two.

BrazForPhins
01-27-2006, 12:34 PM
Ricky + our 1st + our 3rd would be too much for me.
I'd be ok with:
Ricky + our 1st + a 5th/6th
Madison + our 1st + a 4th

It's a crazy plan but I'd like to see this:
If someone bite it,trade our 1st + Ricky or Sam (or both) to trade up into the 7-11 range.
THEN, trade down again, for draft picks. If not possible to trade down, just get the BPA at that picking position, if it's Cutler, then be it

Motion
01-27-2006, 12:49 PM
Ricky + our 1st + our 3rd would be too much for me.
I'd be ok with:
Ricky + our 1st + a 5th/6th
Madison + our 1st + a 4th

It's a crazy plan but I'd like to see this:
If someone bite it,trade our 1st + Ricky or Sam (or both) to trade up into the 7-11 range.
THEN, trade down again, for draft picks. If not possible to trade down, just get the BPA at that picking position, if it's Cutler, then be it

We don't have a 5th or 6th though. Our 1st+Ricky+Sam might get us into the top 10 though.

kitt23
01-27-2006, 01:16 PM
i would only do that on draft day if no1 took cutler yet but if some has then i wouldnt even bother.

finfan54
01-27-2006, 01:56 PM
Im starting to get increasingly excited about Brodie Croyle or Charlie Whitehurst...both really look like they could be a second round gem, and if we could still get a tackle or Huff in the first round....ohhhh...



This is what i keep thinking. The other thing i keep thinking is that i thought i heard that Houck likes the TExas OLine and we were looking at the gaurd Will Allen and he looks the part all right.

BigDogsHunt
01-27-2006, 02:09 PM
We don't have a 5th or 6th though. Our 1st+Ricky+Sam might get us into the top 10 though.

I am confused....

Do we have a 6th and 2 7th based on conditional picks

Or

Do we have 3 7ths and no 6th?

Motion
01-27-2006, 02:36 PM
I am confused....

Do we have a 6th and 2 7th based on conditional picks

Or

Do we have 3 7ths and no 6th?

3 7th rounders and no 5th or 6th.

NJPHIN34
01-27-2006, 09:00 PM
Why trade Ricky? I'm more in favor of future picks or picks this year. With Ricky we know what we have. And it seems more like he is returning to the RW we all know and love. So why trade him when we can trade just the prospect of a good player?

Motion
01-28-2006, 01:54 PM
Why trade Ricky? I'm more in favor of future picks or picks this year. With Ricky we know what we have. And it seems more like he is returning to the RW we all know and love. So why trade him when we can trade just the prospect of a good player?

I was against all the trade Ricky ideas in the beginning too. I've always liked him but if you look at it from a team standpoint, he's probably gonna play another 2 years, finish out his contract and be done very possibly. So you could basically ask yourself this, if the sitaution presented itself would you trade Ricky, who is gonna possibly play only two more years, for a stab at a franchise QB that could lead the team for the next 10 years?