PDA

View Full Version : My Take on the SENIOR BOWL and the QB's



Finfanforever
01-29-2006, 05:33 PM
After watching the Senior Bowl I now have the following observations...

Jay Cutler: I see the footwork concerns that the scouts talk about but I also see the arm strength and the release! This kid as I predicted, is a sure first rounder. I didn't think he played particularly well however. I certainly would not pass judgement on 1 qtr performance. THE BOTTOM LINE: I really don't know if I would trade up for him but I would take him @ #16 if he's there. I do think this kid's going to be a star. He just needs coaching.

Brodie Croyle: I thought he played well. Nice arm strength, Cool composure. At just 200ibs. I wonder how he would hold up in the NFL. He has Steve McNair's injury resume and he hasn't even been drafted yet! He may be worth a 2nd rounder BUT don't count on the kid paying off for at least 2 years. He needs coaching and time in the WEIGHTROOM! THE BOTTOM LINE: I would take him in the 2nd round but I would try to slide down about 5-8 slots before I took him.

Charlie Whitehurst: Great size, I thought his arm strength was good considering the wind conditions. He really, quietly outplayed both Cutler and Croyle. I think this kid would be a STEAL in round 3. I would not be a bit surprised to see Saban take a DB with #1, the best OT on the board in round #2 and then grab Whitehurst in round #3. BOTTOM LINE: I think he solidified himself as a sure early-mid 3rd round pick.

Overall I feel much better about if somehow we miss out on Cutler. Don't get me wrong, he is THE QB I hope the FINS land. But I wouldn't be upset with Croyle or Whitehurst either.
Just my opinion...:wink:

IN SABAN WE TRUST!!!

Finfanforever
01-29-2006, 05:39 PM
The REST of the Qb's that played aren't worth drafting!

Jaj
01-29-2006, 05:46 PM
The REST of the Qb's that played aren't worth drafting!

Um ya ok...

fishypete
01-29-2006, 05:56 PM
I rather have Croyle than Cutler. My fear is that the hype that Cutler received prior to the senior Bowl will now go Croyle.

Finfanforever
01-29-2006, 06:03 PM
I rather have Croyle than Cutler. My fear is that the hype that Cutler received prior to the senior Bowl will now go Croyle.

I really worry about his injury history.

fishypete
01-29-2006, 06:07 PM
I really worry about his injury history.


PRO POTENTIAL: Depending on the source, QB Brodie Croyle is one of the top-five senior quarterbacks available in the draft, with an above-average arm, good instincts for the game and little mobility or physical strength. He'll probably undergo microscopic inspection because a history of injuries, including three surgeries since his senior year of high school. Still seen as a potential second- or third-round pick.

1997-Suffered a left elbow dislocation during his high school freshman year (10/01).

2000-Missed his high school senior season with a torn left knee anterior cruciate ligament.

2003-Suffered a torn labrum in his left shoulder vs. Georgia (10/04) that would limit him to only one play vs. Georgia (10/04) and forced him to sit out vs. Southern Mississippi (10/11)… Underwent shoulder surgery in December (11th) to repair the labrum.

2004-Suffered a torn right knee anterior cruciate ligament early in the third quarter vs. Western Carolina (9/18), missing the rest of the season after undergoing surgery on September 20.

2005-Suffered bruised ribs vs. Auburn (11/19) that continued to bother him throughout practices leading up to the Cotton Bowl.

Finfanforever
01-29-2006, 06:10 PM
Gee I guess I have a right to be. :shakeno:

caneaddict
01-29-2006, 06:34 PM
My fear with Cutler is the accuracy, consistency and decision making. Without those things he's more Kyle Boller than Brett Favre.

I haven't seen enough of him to make a decision (just 3 games and senior bowl).

Right now, I would rank the QB's
Young
Leinart
Cutler
Whitehurst
Croyle

SCall13
01-29-2006, 06:45 PM
I was particularly impressed with any of them as far as their performance in the game. Cutler does have a live arm and a quick release. But they all played pretty badly. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to get Cutler. I wouldn't trade up to do it. Maybe his lackluster performance will make him fall to us. (Not likely)

SCall13
01-29-2006, 06:46 PM
My fear with Cutler is the accuracy, consistency and decision making. Without those things he's more Kyle Boller than Brett Favre.

I haven't seen enough of him to make a decision (just 3 games and senior bowl).

Right now, I would rank the QB's
Young
Leinart
Cutler
Whitehurst
Croyle


His accuracy is a concern. IMO, it's the biggest. Hopefully though, as his footwork gets better, his accuracy will improve. It should.

jlfin
01-29-2006, 08:34 PM
I was particularly impressed with any of them as far as their performance in the game. Cutler does have a live arm and a quick release. But they all played pretty badly. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to get Cutler. I wouldn't trade up to do it. Maybe his lackluster performance will make him fall to us. (Not likely)

Explain how Whitehurst "played pretty badly". He looked pretty good to me.
Croyle looked solid as well.

Finfanforever
01-29-2006, 09:43 PM
Explain how Whitehurst "played pretty badly". He looked pretty good to me.
Croyle looked solid as well.

What was Whitehurst? 7 for 9 and a touchdown? That's playing badly???:sidelol:

nopony
01-29-2006, 10:17 PM
But they all played pretty badly.


I was going to say something about this, but I see it's been addressed.

Cutler still makes me nervous. Nothing I saw yesterday made me less nervous. Not more, particularly, either, just one game. But he does make me nervous.

Much more nervous about trading up to get him than taking him at 16.

If we were going to trade up to get him, then the hell with it, trade all the way up to Leinart or Young - because there is a big gulf, IMO, between those two and everybody else, when you take into account talent, intangibles and NFL readiness.

Finfanforever
01-29-2006, 10:21 PM
I was going to say something about this, but I see it's been addressed.

Cutler still makes me nervous. Nothing I saw yesterday made me less nervous. Not more, particularly, either, just one game. But he does make me nervous.

Much more nervous about trading up to get him than taking him at 16.

If we were going to trade up to get him, then the hell with it, trade all the way up to Leinart or Young - because there is a big gulf, IMO, between those two and everybody else, when you take into account talent, intangibles and NFL readiness.

No offense but...the scouts KNOW more than you and I put together and they are HIGH ON CUTLER. Don't judge him on 1 qtr of football. He's the REAL deal.

SMadison29
01-29-2006, 10:25 PM
Charlie Whitehurst: Great size, I thought his arm strength was good considering the wind conditions. He really, quietly outplayed both Cutler and Croyle. I think this kid would be a STEAL in round 3. I would not be a bit surprised to see Saban take a DB with #1, the best OT on the board in round #2 and then grab Whitehurst in round #3. BOTTOM LINE: I think he solidified himself as a sure early-mid 3rd round pick.

Whitehurst has a big arm, better than Croyle & probably better than Cutler's. He's playing at about 75% after having shoulder surgery. I'd love to get him in the 3rd round.


The REST of the Qb's that played aren't worth drafting!

Yeah, I wouldn't touch Hackney, Robinson, or Shockley.

Phishstix
01-29-2006, 10:48 PM
Whitehurst has a big arm, better than Croyle & probably better than Cutler's. He's playing at about 75% after having shoulder surgery. I'd love to get him in the 3rd round.

whitehurst is too mistake prone for my taste. i prefer croyle in the 2nd round to cutler in the 1st or whitehurst in the 3rd.

nopony
01-29-2006, 11:00 PM
No offense but...the scouts KNOW more than you and I put together and they are HIGH ON CUTLER. Don't judge him on 1 qtr of football. He's the REAL deal.

No offense, but we have NO IDEA what the real scouts think.

And what on earth makes you think I am judging him on one quarter of football?

I believe the thrust of my post was two things:

1. He makes me nervous, for a lot of reasons.

- I am wary of guys who shoot up draft boards based on arm strength. They tend to be overdrafted and bust frequently. I prefer intangibles and accuracy every day of the week.

- We have almost no knowledge of how he plays in big, meaningful games. We have no reason at all to think that he will be the type of QB that will elevate his team and will them to victory.

etc.

Do I think this means he's bad or would be a bad pick? No. I mean what I said, that he makes me nervous. I think that's more than valid.

2. The other thrust of my post was that he doesn't belong in the same stratosphere as Leinart and Young... this is more about them and what they did then it is about Cutler. They were unbeleivably exceptional... he was a great QB on a bad team. Not the same thing.

twg76
01-29-2006, 11:13 PM
Here is my two cents about the QBs in the game:

Cutler: He had a bad day. There were some throws that the WRs should have caught, but he was off most of the time. You could see that he had good instincts at QB. But if you took away all the hype about him, and just looked at his play on the field, he didn't separate himself from the other QBs. I do not see him going top 10 in the draft.

Whitehurst: This guy had the best passing day. The guy was just picking the defense apart most of the day. He looked like he had good instincts for QB too. I think this guy may have moved up a few notches based on his performance in the game.

Croyle: He started the game out well, but died off towards the end. He looks like he has some ability, but I question his durability and how well he will play at the NFL level. I don't see how he could be a first round pick, but I think someone will draft him as a developmental guy.

Robinson: This was an interesting player. I believe he was from Penn State. They had him playing alot of different positions, and were questioning his ability to play QB before the game began. I thought he played really well, especially with his feet. He probably helped his position in the draft because he is the type of player that could help a team in more ways than one. He will be another developmental guy.

Hackney: This is another developmental guy. I really liked the way he stood in there and took the hit on that TD pass. He looks like a guy that has good QB instincts, but needs some development. He may be able to play at the NFL level.

Those were the only QBs I saw during the game. Cutler seemed WAY overrated. I know he may be better than what he showed in the Senior Bowl. However, I don't see what all the excessive hype is about. Whitehurst impressed me more than Cutler. Whitehurst seems like a big, pocket passing QB. I don't see him as much of a scrambler though. Miami should pass on Croyle. Hackney may be a guy to consider in the later rounds, if Miami doesn't get a QB in the first round. Robinson may not be a player for Miami. Although I do like his football versatility.

I say let the hype swell around Cutler and let other teams manuever to get him. Miami can get stronger talent at a different position (other than QB) with the 16th pick. Then, get Whitehurst in the 2nd round. Do you think Whitehurst would be around in the 2nd round?

houtz
01-29-2006, 11:41 PM
I just want us to get our quarterback of the future. My first choice would be Leinart and then Cutler and Young in second. I just want our team to have a great quarterback and Frerotte isn't doing it.

Danny
01-30-2006, 12:20 AM
The more I think about it now the more I'm hoping that we don't draft a QB in round one but instead take the best OLB,DB or O-lineman at 16 then take a QB later on...I like Croyle and Whitehurts and if we miss on those then I'd take a chance on day 2 on either McNeal or Betts if it comes down to it.Everytime 3 QB are taking in round one at least 1 or sometimes 2 of them are busts.I think Nick will take the BAP and will get a QB later on and I'm fine with that.

Ozzy rules!!

uga3406
01-30-2006, 01:55 AM
just some info on whitehurst ...when he played the of the best defensive units in the acc miami and fsu he had great games...vs miami he threw 2 td and ran for 1 and finshed with 288 yds passing they los in ot by 6...vs fla st they won 35-14 and threw for 269 with 3 tds he had 248 going into the 4th qtr but they ran the ball so he proble would of hit the 300 mark..a cromartie was quoted as saying he thought this guy one of the best qbs not only in the acc but the nation..great complment coming from another great player...whitehurst looked great on sat and i think we need not bother trading ricky or selling the farm for cutler when i say charlie whitehurst can be the guy to take us to the neext level..im serious...i like croyle but his injuries bother me way to much...and nothing aganist cutler he is gonna be great but i think we need to get a safety or cb help 1st with that 16 pick...it all makes sense thats all

twg76
01-30-2006, 12:00 PM
just some info on whitehurst ...when he played the of the best defensive units in the acc miami and fsu he had great games...vs miami he threw 2 td and ran for 1 and finshed with 288 yds passing they los in ot by 6...vs fla st they won 35-14 and threw for 269 with 3 tds he had 248 going into the 4th qtr but they ran the ball so he proble would of hit the 300 mark..a cromartie was quoted as saying he thought this guy one of the best qbs not only in the acc but the nation..great complment coming from another great player...whitehurst looked great on sat and i think we need not bother trading ricky or selling the farm for cutler when i say charlie whitehurst can be the guy to take us to the neext level..im serious...i like croyle but his injuries bother me way to much...and nothing aganist cutler he is gonna be great but i think we need to get a safety or cb help 1st with that 16 pick...it all makes sense thats all

I agree with you. Cutler has talent, but Miami can use the hype surrounding him as leverage. Let someone spend an early pick on Cutler. Then, that would be 3 QBs in the top 15. It would help Miami's chances of getting a top player at a defensive position.

Miami may be able to get Whitehurst in the second round.

PhinKev
01-30-2006, 12:59 PM
just some info on whitehurst ...when he played the of the best defensive units in the acc miami and fsu he had great games...vs miami he threw 2 td and ran for 1 and finshed with 288 yds passing they los in ot by 6...vs fla st they won 35-14 and threw for 269 with 3 tds he had 248 going into the 4th qtr but they ran the ball so he proble would of hit the 300 mark..a cromartie was quoted as saying he thought this guy one of the best qbs not only in the acc but the nation..great complment coming from another great player...whitehurst looked great on sat and i think we need not bother trading ricky or selling the farm for cutler when i say charlie whitehurst can be the guy to take us to the neext level..im serious...i like croyle but his injuries bother me way to much...and nothing aganist cutler he is gonna be great but i think we need to get a safety or cb help 1st with that 16 pick...it all makes sense thats all

AS an FSU guy, I agree. WHitehurst seemed to have a real good command. I'm not sure it translates, but than who really knows.

Funny, how some people say the scouts know. I bet they don't. Brady was missed while guys like Akilli Smith and Joey Harrington are graded high. No one knows.

Motion
01-30-2006, 01:05 PM
Miami may be able to get Whitehurst in the second round.

WHAT?!?!? Whitehurst is a 3rd rounder at the VERY best and your saying we MIGHT be able to get him in the 2nd? Wow

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 01:20 PM
Here is my two cents about the QBs in the game:

Cutler: He had a bad day. There were some throws that the WRs should have caught, but he was off most of the time. You could see that he had good instincts at QB. But if you took away all the hype about him, and just looked at his play on the field, he didn't separate himself from the other QBs. I do not see him going top 10 in the draft.

Whitehurst: This guy had the best passing day. The guy was just picking the defense apart most of the day. He looked like he had good instincts for QB too. I think this guy may have moved up a few notches based on his performance in the game.

Croyle: He started the game out well, but died off towards the end. He looks like he has some ability, but I question his durability and how well he will play at the NFL level. I don't see how he could be a first round pick, but I think someone will draft him as a developmental guy.

Robinson: This was an interesting player. I believe he was from Penn State. They had him playing alot of different positions, and were questioning his ability to play QB before the game began. I thought he played really well, especially with his feet. He probably helped his position in the draft because he is the type of player that could help a team in more ways than one. He will be another developmental guy.

Hackney: This is another developmental guy. I really liked the way he stood in there and took the hit on that TD pass. He looks like a guy that has good QB instincts, but needs some development. He may be able to play at the NFL level.

Those were the only QBs I saw during the game. Cutler seemed WAY overrated. I know he may be better than what he showed in the Senior Bowl. However, I don't see what all the excessive hype is about. Whitehurst impressed me more than Cutler. Whitehurst seems like a big, pocket passing QB. I don't see him as much of a scrambler though. Miami should pass on Croyle. Hackney may be a guy to consider in the later rounds, if Miami doesn't get a QB in the first round. Robinson may not be a player for Miami. Although I do like his football versatility.

I say let the hype swell around Cutler and let other teams manuever to get him. Miami can get stronger talent at a different position (other than QB) with the 16th pick. Then, get Whitehurst in the 2nd round. Do you think Whitehurst would be around in the 2nd round?
You do realize that Hackney is 5"11' right? He has no chance whatsoever to play QB in the NFL. None. Hopefully there is an Arena League team in Alabama so he won't have to move.

fishypete
01-30-2006, 02:07 PM
You do realize that Hackney is 5"11' right? He has no chance whatsoever to play QB in the NFL. None. Hopefully there is an Arena League team in Alabama so he won't have to move.

He could play middle Linebacker...:sidelol:

GordonLiu
01-30-2006, 02:25 PM
I agree with you on Hack, Robinson, and Shockley. Cutler however has the biggest arm out of all the top tier QBs(Did you see that pass that popped Hagan right in the chest, only to have him drop it). His problem is, ofcourse the footwork. He plays flat footed at times. He also tries to force passes. With his quick release and arm strength, he can get away with it at times, but in the NFL, corners will eat him up. I wouldn't move up more the 2 positions to get him, but he will be a franchise type QB on the next level.

BlueFin
01-30-2006, 02:29 PM
I rather have Croyle than Cutler. My fear is that the hype that Cutler received prior to the senior Bowl will now go Croyle.

Fear not Pete, only those that would make a statement like"I'd rather have Croyle than Cutler" would hype the kid, and all people in the know know that Cutler is a far superior candidate, so you need not fear a big hype wagon for Croyle.

ckparrothead
01-30-2006, 02:32 PM
I think Charlie Whitehurst is presenting a whole lot of value out there...I never thought I'd be comfortable with drafting him, but I'm sucked in by his potential, same way everyone at Clemson was.

fishypete
01-30-2006, 02:32 PM
Fear not Pete, only those that would make a statement like"I'd rather have Croyle than Cutler" would hype the kid, and all people in the know know that Cutler is a far superior candidate, so you need not fear a big hype wagon for Croyle.

Hey if a guy that was rated a second rounder can be hyped up to the top ten...anything is possible. I still believe Croyle is the better all around player between them.

fishypete
01-30-2006, 02:33 PM
I think Charlie Whitehurst is presenting a whole lot of value out there...I never thought I'd be comfortable with drafting him, but I'm sucked in by his potential, same way everyone at Clemson was.

CK..Do you have any concerns on his arm strength?

ckparrothead
01-30-2006, 04:20 PM
CK..Do you have any concerns on his arm strength?

Heck no. I truly believe he has one of the top arms in this draft. Right now I would say his arm is better than Croyle's (and Brodie's got a gun), and second only to the likes of Jay Cutler, Barrick Nealy, Reggie McNeal, and maybe Darrell Hackney.

IMO, the reason scouts disagree with me is because when Charlie showed up at the Senior Bowl he was still recovering from shoulder surgery he has I think in December. I read reviews of his practices and heard the evaluators say "average arm" and nearly choked. Scott Wright chatted up Charlie's father though and his dad pointed out the recovery from surgery and how he's still not 100% yet.

Average arm and average speed. Gosh I hope the evaluators keep on thinking something like that. People who have reviewed the tapes should know he should never get those labels. When his deep passes float a little it is because he keeps trying to feather them where he might be better off just gunning them. And as for his feet...there's a good highlight video link in VIP of a 65 yard run he had against the Miami Hurricanes' super-athlete defenders. Watch them gain ground on Whitehurst at a snail's pace during that run, and that should tell you all you need to know about Whitehurst's speed.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
01-30-2006, 04:38 PM
whitehurst has all the physical tools you want in a prototypical QB. he's just too erratic with his decision-making. he belongs in the latter part of the draft, as a developmental guy.

Finfanforever
01-31-2006, 10:58 AM
whitehurst has all the physical tools you want in a prototypical QB. he's just too erratic with his decision-making. he belongs in the latter part of the draft, as a developmental guy.

That's where coaching come in. :wink: