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dolfan3431
01-29-2006, 07:02 PM
if you had a choice of either Quinn, Leinart, Young, or Cutler who would you pick?


I'd take Quinn

finfan54
01-29-2006, 07:06 PM
I would take Young. Saban would take Quinn.

SMadison29
01-29-2006, 10:25 PM
Quinn-Leinart-Cutler-Young, in that order.

Phishstix
01-29-2006, 10:54 PM
young no doubt.

Jaj
01-29-2006, 10:55 PM
Quinn.

unifiedtheory
01-29-2006, 10:56 PM
Leinart...and it's not even close for me.

King Felix
01-29-2006, 10:58 PM
leinart by far

nopony
01-29-2006, 11:01 PM
Young/Leinart - these two both bring so much "franchise" to the table, it would be easy to be happy with either.
Quinn
-
-
Cutler.

Pocoloco
01-29-2006, 11:06 PM
Quinn by a mile

PassRush
01-29-2006, 11:06 PM
Quinn, far and away, I would classify Quinn with the same regard as Carson Palmer coming out of college

PhinSoldia
01-29-2006, 11:11 PM
Leinhart.....then Cutler

byroan
01-29-2006, 11:13 PM
Quinn-Leinart-Cutler-Young, in that order.

:yeahthat:

LIQUID24
01-29-2006, 11:37 PM
1a. Leinart

1b. Quinn
....

....

....

....

....

....

3. Cutler

4. Young

HysterikiLL
01-29-2006, 11:48 PM
Still some Vince Young haters in here...even after what Cutler did yesterday to somewhat deflate his hype.


Leinart
Young
Quinn
Cutler

houtz
01-29-2006, 11:50 PM
Leinart without any hesitation.

PhinstiGator
01-29-2006, 11:54 PM
if you had a choice of either Quinn, Leinart, Young, or Cutler who would you pick?

If I was the one paying the bills...I would get the most for my money with Vince Young...easily.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
01-30-2006, 11:50 AM
1 - leinart. has everything you want in a NFL quarterback
2 - quinn. has pretty much what leinart has, although he's more green

arsenal
01-30-2006, 12:12 PM
quinn without a doubt... hes lienart with a better arm...

id prob go quinn, leinart, young, cutler

fishypete
01-30-2006, 12:17 PM
Young, Quinn, Leinart and Croyle.

NLude33
01-30-2006, 12:28 PM
Leinart by a mile. He has a very good arm, just doesn't pull it out till he needs to.

@@@
01-30-2006, 12:38 PM
Leinart and its not remotely close so he doesn't have cutlers rocket arm.... at least he throws off the right foot!

Motion
01-30-2006, 12:46 PM
Quinn
Cutler
Leinart

I wouldn't take Young at all.

Motion
01-30-2006, 12:47 PM
Leinart by a mile. He has a very good arm, just doesn't pull it out till he needs to.

Thats a good one. :lol:

daniel3
01-30-2006, 12:56 PM
Young, has all the qualities of what it takes to be a great one.

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 01:03 PM
Quinn in a tight race over Leinart, Cutler is a little bit behind them. A few miles back is Young. I think Vick showed the true value of a running QB this year. How many runners made the playoffs?

Motion
01-30-2006, 01:03 PM
Quinn in a tight race over Leinart, Cutler is a little bit behind them. A few miles back is Young. I think Vick showed the true value of a running QB this year. How many runners made the playoffs?

:D Yep

daniel3
01-30-2006, 01:19 PM
Quinn in a tight race over Leinart, Cutler is a little bit behind them. A few miles back is Young. I think Vick showed the true value of a running QB this year. How many runners made the playoffs?

So, Vick has taken his team deep into the playoffs in two of the three years he has started. Then in the one year he hasnt done that, he's shown the true value of all mobile QBs ever? Can that reasoning get any stupider?

UltraDol-Fan
01-30-2006, 01:24 PM
Young
Quinn
Leinart

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 01:28 PM
So, Vick has taken his team deep into the playoffs in two of the three years he has started. Then in the one year he hasnt done that, he's shown the true value of all mobile QBs ever? Can that reasoning get any stupider?
Did I say ever? But now that you mention it, how many running QB's have a Superbowl ring? Young, once he stopped running... Elway when he was YEARS removed from his mobile days...That shows the true value of mobile QBs ever. This year Vick just showed that he is a lot of hype and not a lot of substance.

daniel3
01-30-2006, 01:43 PM
Did I say ever? But now that you mention it, how many running QB's have a Superbowl ring? Young, once he stopped running... Elway when he was YEARS removed from his mobile days...That shows the true value of mobile QBs ever. This year Vick just showed that he is a lot of hype and not a lot of substance.

This convo is progressing almost similarly to another I had in another forum. Steve Young rushed for the most yards of any player on his team when he won the SB. Elway scored more rushing TD's in the latter half of his career than the former. Vick as a starter for the entire season is 2 of 3 in going to the playoffs (where he lost to exceptional teams). Vick is more successful than most pocket passing QB's. Vince Young is not Michael Vick. Vince Young will be better than Vick. You are just prejudicial against QB's like Young because of your hatred of Vick and the fact he is so popular, get over it. Go Young, Yay! :P

fishypete
01-30-2006, 01:54 PM
Quinn in a tight race over Leinart, Cutler is a little bit behind them. A few miles back is Young. I think Vick showed the true value of a running QB this year. How many runners made the playoffs?

Scramblers made it just fine....Steve Young...Doug Williams, Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, Kenny Stabler....I'm sure there's plenty more...I'm just not going to do all the work.

PhinsRDbest
01-30-2006, 01:56 PM
Quinn. Thats why they should trade up next year instead of this year.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
01-30-2006, 02:15 PM
This convo is progressing almost similarly to another I had in another forum. Steve Young rushed for the most yards of any player on his team when he won the SB. Elway scored more rushing TD's in the latter half of his career than the former. Vick as a starter for the entire season is 2 of 3 in going to the playoffs (where he lost to exceptional teams). Vick is more successful than most pocket passing QB's. Vince Young is not Michael Vick. Vince Young will be better than Vick. You are just prejudicial against QB's like Young because of your hatred of Vick and the fact he is so popular, get over it. Go Young, Yay! :P
if you mean in the super bowl, young had 49 yards while ricky watters had 47 yards. the game wasn't won on young's feet. his 6 passing TDs had something to do with it. the year they won the super bowl he had 3.63 rushing attempts a game, less than his career average of 4.31 per game. as for elway, he had more TDs, but much less attempts, yards, and yards per carry, and even then, he was never a big threat to run.

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 02:18 PM
This convo is progressing almost similarly to another I had in another forum. Steve Young rushed for the most yards of any player on his team when he won the SB. Elway scored more rushing TD's in the latter half of his career than the former. Vick as a starter for the entire season is 2 of 3 in going to the playoffs (where he lost to exceptional teams). Vick is more successful than most pocket passing QB's. Vince Young is not Michael Vick. Vince Young will be better than Vick. You are just prejudicial against QB's like Young because of your hatred of Vick and the fact he is so popular, get over it. Go Young, Yay! :P
OK...Tell me what I'm thinking right now.

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 02:21 PM
Scramblers made it just fine....Steve Young...Doug Williams, Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, Kenny Stabler....I'm sure there's plenty more...I'm just not going to do all the work.
Steve Young has already been discussed... Doug Williams was done scrambling long before he went to the Superbowl...Fran was only the most prolific PASSER in the history of the NFL prior to Marino... Staubach and Stabler were capable of running to GET OUT OF TROUBLE, but weren't the type to beat you with their feet. Keep trying.

nopony
01-30-2006, 03:42 PM
Quinn in a tight race over Leinart, Cutler is a little bit behind them. A few miles back is Young. I think Vick showed the true value of a running QB this year. How many runners made the playoffs?

If you extrapolate the "true value of running quarterbacks" from ONE quarterback who can't pass... that's sloppy, sloppy thinking.

The generalizations are killing me here.

At it's core, the ability of a quarterback to run in nothing but a bonus. It's purely positive... as long as he can pass. If he does well in the air and can ALSO run, there is absolutely no downside to that.

And if you think Vick=young, then you are not looking very deeply. Young was the leading PASSER in the country.

Some PASSING stats from this year, since you ranked Cutler above Young...

Cutler: 59.1 % comp, 6.65 YPA (awful), 21 tds, 9 INTs, his rating? 126.07

Young: 65.2 % comp (!) and a jaw-dropping 9.34 YPA. 26tds, 10 INTs His rating? 163.95.

Oh, plus Young had a 1050 yards rushing and 12 more TDs.

The Young hatred on here is unbelievable.

Philter25
01-30-2006, 03:51 PM
Quinn
Cutler
Leinart

I wouldn't take Young at all. Agreed. I like guys who can actually throw the ball and I dont plan on running the option in the NFL or the wishbone.

fishypete
01-30-2006, 03:54 PM
Steve Young has already been discussed... Doug Williams was done scrambling long before he went to the Superbowl...Fran was only the most prolific PASSER in the history of the NFL prior to Marino... Staubach and Stabler were capable of running to GET OUT OF TROUBLE, but weren't the type to beat you with their feet. Keep trying.

They were all scramblers....what do you think they scrambled on...their knees?

nopony
01-30-2006, 03:54 PM
Agreed. I like guys who can actually throw the ball and I dont plan on running the option in the NFL or the wishbone.

Cutler: 59.1 % comp, 6.65 YPA (awful), 21 tds, 9 INTs, his rating? 126.07

Young: 65.2 % comp (!) and a jaw-dropping 9.34 YPA. 26tds, 10 INTs His rating? 163.95.

fishypete
01-30-2006, 03:57 PM
Agreed. I like guys who can actually throw the ball and I dont plan on running the option in the NFL or the wishbone.

Do you really think that Young can't throw a football? Speaking of the option...isn't that what Cutler played just a year ago?

I know....Cutler can change and Young can't....I guess you don't believe what you see with your eyes either...shame. Maybe you should try with them opened?

It's obvious he dropped back 3 and 5 steps in High school...you know where he was rated the number 1 player and QB...in the nation...scored 59 tds in his senior year...he also at times played under center while at Texas...guess you may have missed that also...Hmm.

Philter25
01-30-2006, 04:23 PM
Do you really think that Young can't throw a football? Speaking of the option...isn't that what Cutler played just a year ago?

I know....Cutler can change and Young can't....I guess you don't believe what you see with your eyes either...shame. Maybe you should try with them opened?

It's obvious he dropped back 3 and 5 steps in High school...you know where he was rated the number 1 player and QB...in the nation...scored 59 tds in his senior year...he also at times played under center while at Texas...guess you may have missed that also...Hmm.

Lol my eyes are open. I love Vince Young as a college FB QB. Im not a Young hater, he was one of the most exciting players to watch in college. However his college game does NOT translate well to the NFL. My office mate is a UT alum so we have football debates all throughout the college season so Im not some blindsighted idiot who has no idea what he is talking about.

Personally, I find it hilarious that someone who thought we should move ZT to Strong Safety is telling me to open my eyes and act like I dont know what Im talking about. :lol:


Cutler: 59.1 % comp, 6.65 YPA (awful), 21 tds, 9 INTs, his rating? 126.07

Young: 65.2 % comp (!) and a jaw-dropping 9.34 YPA. 26tds, 10 INTs His rating? 163.95.

Stats are very deceiving. Do I dare bring up Tim Couch, or Jason White's stats they put up in college?

Also, Ronnie had the worst stats last year coming out as a RB... Williams and Caddy both had more yards than he did, so why did we pick him?

You expect Cutler, playing in the SEC at VANDERBILT, to put up heisman stats? Gimme a break. Its all about what translates to the NFL.

I like armstrength and a pocket passer and a guy with decent mechanics as my QB. Cutler >>>> Young in all those categories.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
01-30-2006, 04:27 PM
It's obvious he dropped back 3 and 5 steps in High school...you know where he was rated the number 1 player and QB...in the nation...scored 59 tds in his senior year...he also at times played under center while at Texas...guess you may have missed that also...Hmm.
how in the world is it "obvious" that he was a dropback passer in high school based on those stats? first of all, hardly any QB drops back in high school, unless it's out of an option set, which i'm pretty sure he ran, as it would've been idiotic not to with an athlete like him at quarterback. show some evidence of whatever you're trying to prove.

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 04:31 PM
They were all scramblers....what do you think they scrambled on...their knees?I don't even know how to respond to this. What is your point and how is this a retort to my response?

fishypete
01-30-2006, 04:32 PM
Lol my eyes are open. I love Vince Young as a college FB QB. Im not a Young hater, he was one of the most exciting players to watch in college. However his college game does NOT translate well to the NFL. My office mate is a UT alum so we have football debates all throughout the college season so Im not some blindsighted idiot who has no idea what he is talking about.

Personally, I find it hilarious that someone who thought we should move ZT to Strong Safety is telling me to open my eyes and act like I dont know what Im talking about. :lol:



Stats are very deceiving. Do I dare bring up Tim Couch, or Jason White's stats they put up in college?

Also, Ronnie had the worst stats last year coming out as a RB... Williams and Caddy both had more yards than he did, so why did we pick him?

You expect Cutler, playing in the SEC at VANDERBILT, to put up heisman stats? Gimme a break. Its all about what translates to the NFL.

I like armstrength and a pocket passer and a guy with decent mechanics as my QB. Cutler >>>> Young in all those categories.

I'll know better than to try to make the off season interesting the next time..:boohoo:

I don't see any reason why Young won't be as a great NFL QB...He's been a winner right from High School to now...time will tell.

nopony
01-30-2006, 04:32 PM
Stats are very deceiving. Do I dare bring up Tim Couch, or Jason White's stats they put up in college?

1- stats are not decieving. People are decieving. If you know how to read stats, they aren't decieving at all.

2. Who cares about Couch or White? For one, they didn't do nearly what Young did.

I just don't get this argument to begin with. Can I just list all the college quarterbacks that DIDN'T put up good stats that sucked in the NFL? It makes the same amount of sense.


Also, Ronnie had the worst stats last year coming out as a RB... Williams and Caddy both had more yards than he did, so why did we pick him?

Since when does "yards" equal stats? Ronnie had great STATS last year.


You expect Cutler, playing in the SEC at VANDERBILT, to put up heisman stats? Gimme a break. Its all about what translates to the NFL.

I expect one hell of a lot more out of Cutler than I've seen to justify this incredible hype he's gotten, that's for sure. And if you think Cutler would have done what Young did if HE was at Texas, you're kidding yourself.


I like armstrength and a pocket passer and a guy with decent mechanics as my QB. Cutler >>>> Young in all those categories.

Armstrength is 1) the single most overdrafter quality a QB can have. 2) Young also has it, anyway.

Young was a better POCKET passer than Cutler, too.

Mechanics... so I take it you're not a Marino fan? His throwing motion was considered unorthodox and worrisome to some.

I just have to think that most people here never watched Cutler or Young play.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
01-30-2006, 04:34 PM
I just have to think that most people here never watched Cutler or Young play.
indeed. those people are the ones who compare stats.

fishypete
01-30-2006, 04:35 PM
how in the world is it "obvious" that he was a dropback passer in high school based on those stats? first of all, hardly any QB drops back in high school, unless it's out of an option set, which i'm pretty sure he ran, as it would've been idiotic not to with an athlete like him at quarterback. show some evidence of whatever you're trying to prove.

I don't have to prove anything...the post was responding to the fact that some still think he can't play behind a center;

Watch it and make up your own mind.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...9&q=vince+young (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7916968916795488329&q=vince+young)

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 04:40 PM
If you extrapolate the "true value of running quarterbacks" from ONE quarterback who can't pass... that's sloppy, sloppy thinking.

The generalizations are killing me here.

At it's core, the ability of a quarterback to run in nothing but a bonus. It's purely positive... as long as he can pass. If he does well in the air and can ALSO run, there is absolutely no downside to that.

And if you think Vick=young, then you are not looking very deeply. Young was the leading PASSER in the country.

Some PASSING stats from this year, since you ranked Cutler above Young...

Cutler: 59.1 % comp, 6.65 YPA (awful), 21 tds, 9 INTs, his rating? 126.07

Young: 65.2 % comp (!) and a jaw-dropping 9.34 YPA. 26tds, 10 INTs His rating? 163.95.

Oh, plus Young had a 1050 yards rushing and 12 more TDs.

The Young hatred on here is unbelievable.
If you expect to extrapolate my point by just reading just one post... that's just sloppy, sloppy thinking. Read the entire thread.

nopony
01-30-2006, 04:40 PM
indeed. those people are the ones who compare stats.

:shakeno:

Right... because only a fool would use every evaluation tool available, right?

:shakeno:

I can't believe I'm even having this discussion. Alrighty, people, fine, you win. Vince Young is clearly awful.

His record was 34-2, but clearly he was just lucky - definetly go with the guy who was 5-6 last year. He's proven he can lose with dignity and that's important. Oh, Young was the highest rated passer in college football, but that's because he only played Bowling Green... what's that you say? He beat the defending national champions on the biggest stage, in the biggest game? Surely, someone must have fixed it.

So sure, let me see if I've got the rules down. Any quarterback that can run is obviously Michael Vick. young is overrated because... well, I'm not sure of the thinking. Largely because I think THINKING isn't involved.

Motion
01-30-2006, 04:41 PM
1- stats are not decieving. People are decieving. If you know how to read stats, they aren't decieving at all.

2. Who cares about Couch or White? For one, they didn't do nearly what Young did. What did Young do that White didn't?

I just don't get this argument to begin with. Can I just list all the college quarterbacks that DIDN'T put up good stats that sucked in the NFL? It makes the same amount of sense. Yet your the one who brings up all the stats.



Since when does "yards" equal stats? Ronnie had great STATS last year.



I expect one hell of a lot more out of Cutler than I've seen to justify this incredible hype he's gotten, that's for sure. And if you think Cutler would have done what Young did if HE was at Texas, you're kidding yourself.
How the heck would you know?



Armstrength is 1) the single most overdrafter quality a QB can have. 2) Young also has it, anyway. No he doesn't.

Young was a better POCKET passer than Cutler, too.

Mechanics... so I take it you're not a Marino fan? His throwing motion was considered unorthodox and worrisome to some.

I just have to think that most people here never watched Cutler or Young play. Thats quite obvious.

Wow, its getting deep in here.

nopony
01-30-2006, 04:42 PM
If you expect to extrapolate my point by just reading just one post... that's just sloppy, sloppy thinking. Read the entire thread.

Oh, I did. I also read the specific quote "VIck showed the true value of running quarterbacks this year."

Wanta take it back?

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 04:45 PM
Oh, I did. I also read the specific quote "VIck showed the true value of running quarterbacks this year."

Wanta take it back?
Did you read the part about no running QB's in the Playoffs, or how about no running QBs that were SB winners? Are you sure you read all the posts?

fishypete
01-30-2006, 04:48 PM
Did you read the part about no running QB's in the Playoffs, or how about no running QBs that were SB winners? Are you sure you read all the posts?

What do you classify as a running QB..Vick?

There's been many QB's that have run...since the 30's they have run...you may not like them...but they are there.

nopony
01-30-2006, 04:48 PM
2. Who cares about Couch or White? For one, they didn't do nearly what Young did. What did Young do that White didn't?

A lot of things. They are completely different quartebacks. Ask any scout or GM if they think White=Young.


I just don't get this argument to begin with. Can I just list all the college quarterbacks that DIDN'T put up good stats that sucked in the NFL? It makes the same amount of sense. Yet your the one who brings up all the stats.

Huh? You give two examples of guys with good stats that weren't good in the NFL. Can I give you the examples of TWO THOUSAND guys with bad stats who weren't good in the NFL? Would that persuade you?



I expect one hell of a lot more out of Cutler than I've seen to justify this incredible hype he's gotten, that's for sure. And if you think Cutler would have done what Young did if HE was at Texas, you're kidding yourself.
How the heck would you know?


Because I watch and study football. There is exactly zero reason to believe that Cutler could have done what young did... and a lot of reasons to believe he couldn't.



Armstrength is 1) the single most overdrafter quality a QB can have. 2) Young also has it, anyway. No he doesn't.


Now at least I know you haven't watched any actual college football.

:shakeno:

His YPA is THREE YARDS higher than Cutler. It's almost TEN. Per ATTEMPT. He throws the ball far and on the money. No arm strength. Sheesh.

nopony
01-30-2006, 04:50 PM
Did you read the part about no running QB's in the Playoffs, or how about no running QBs that were SB winners? Are you sure you read all the posts?

Once again...

You said that VICK PROVED IT. Vick.

That's what YOU said. I was saying that was a uninformed statement. That statement. Specifically. See?

Kobe
01-30-2006, 04:50 PM
Quinn, Young, Leinart, Cutler

Pennington's Rocket Arm
01-30-2006, 04:50 PM
:shakeno:

Right... because only a fool would use every evaluation tool available, right?

:shakeno:

I can't believe I'm even having this discussion. Alrighty, people, fine, you win. Vince Young is clearly awful.

His record was 34-2, but clearly he was just lucky - definetly go with the guy who was 5-6 last year. He's proven he can lose with dignity and that's important. Oh, Young was the highest rated passer in college football, but that's because he only played Bowling Green... what's that you say? He beat the defending national champions on the biggest stage, in the biggest game? Surely, someone must have fixed it.

So sure, let me see if I've got the rules down. Any quarterback that can run is obviously Michael Vick. young is overrated because... well, I'm not sure of the thinking. Largely because I think THINKING isn't involved.
what two largely undeveloped quarterbacks do in college in terms of wins means absolutely NOTHING, especially when you compare the talent around the two. texas is at the top of the list every year when it comes to recruiting. vanderbilt? they're an education-first school with no athletic department. yes, no athletic department. if young actually won AT vanderbilt i'd think more of it, but since he won at texas behind a massive offensive line with blue-chippers at every position, i'll take that with a grain of salt. especially since he won in an offense completely removed from the NFL. looking at a college player's wins is pointless. you end up giving unnecessary praise to guys like ken dorsey, david greene, etc.

and as i said before, these are two DEVELOPMENTAL players, i.e., they aren't even close to being ready for the NFL. cutler and young have a lot in common actually. they're very athletic guys who started out their collegiate careers in an option-based offense, and just this past year were more focused on running a more wide-open passing offense. the difference in their development being that young had a much better coaching staff and supporting staff to help him progress as a QB. in a lot of ways (and you can see this from watching games), he used his teammates as a crutch on a lot of plays. it's not a BAD thing, but it just goes to show how raw he is and how he's not the "superman" he's proclaimed to be. cutler on the other hand, had to be trained by vanderbilt's coaching staff, with very little help from his team. throw all the various elements together, and COMMON SENSE tells you that not only would young have better stats, but more wins as well. vanderbilt lost to middle tennessee state for god's sake. vince young or no vince young, texas would slaughter MTSU easily.

fishypete
01-30-2006, 04:52 PM
:shakeno:

Right... because only a fool would use every evaluation tool available, right?

:shakeno:

I can't believe I'm even having this discussion. Alrighty, people, fine, you win. Vince Young is clearly awful.

His record was 34-2, but clearly he was just lucky - definetly go with the guy who was 5-6 last year. He's proven he can lose with dignity and that's important. Oh, Young was the highest rated passer in college football, but that's because he only played Bowling Green... what's that you say? He beat the defending national champions on the biggest stage, in the biggest game? Surely, someone must have fixed it.

So sure, let me see if I've got the rules down. Any quarterback that can run is obviously Michael Vick. young is overrated because... well, I'm not sure of the thinking. Largely because I think THINKING isn't involved.

Don't mind them...they have nothing on you...and your opinion is as good as anyone's here.

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 04:52 PM
What do you classify as a running QB..Vick?

There's been many QB's that have run...since the 30's they have run...you may not like them...but they are there.
QB that look at their first option and if it's not there they tuck it and run. QB's that won't follow their progressions. QB's have been running since the late 1800's (College ball). Believe it or not the forward pass evolved, it wasn't there when the game was invented.

Motion
01-30-2006, 04:54 PM
Because I watch and study football. There is exactly zero reason to believe that Cutler could have done what young did... and a lot of reasons to believe he couldn't. What a joke. I'm waiting to hear these reasons why not?


Now at least I know you haven't watched any actual college football. :lol:

:shakeno:

His YPA is THREE YARDS higher than Cutler. It's almost TEN. Per ATTEMPT. He throws the ball far and on the money. And your point? YPA has nothing to do with arm strength. I guess you'd say their WR corps are of equal talent as well?

For someone who claims to "watch and study" college football you would think you'd realize the differences.

fishypete
01-30-2006, 04:54 PM
what two largely undeveloped quarterbacks do in college in terms of wins means absolutely NOTHING, especially when you compare the talent around the two. texas is at the top of the list every year when it comes to recruiting. vanderbilt? they're an education-first school with no athletic department. yes, no athletic department. if young actually won AT vanderbilt i'd think more of it, but since he won at texas behind a massive offensive line with blue-chippers at every position, i'll take that with a grain of salt. especially since he won in an offense completely removed from the NFL. looking at a college player's wins is pointless. you end up giving unnecessary praise to guys like ken dorsey, david greene, etc.

and as i said before, these are two DEVELOPMENTAL players, i.e., they aren't even close to being ready for the NFL. cutler and young have a lot in common actually. they're very athletic guys who started out their collegiate careers in an option-based offense, and just this past year were more focused on running a more wide-open passing offense. the difference in their development being that young had a much better coaching staff and supporting staff to help him progress as a QB. in a lot of ways (and you can see this from watching games), he used his teammates as a crutch on a lot of plays. it's not a BAD thing, but it just goes to show how raw he is and how he's not the "superman" he's proclaimed to be. cutler on the other hand, had to be trained by vanderbilt's coaching staff, with very little help from his team. throw all the various elements together, and COMMON SENSE tells you that not only would young have better stats, but more wins as well. vanderbilt lost to middle tennessee state for god's sake. vince young or no vince young, texas would slaughter MTSU easily.

I would think it's safe to say that Texas would have beaten most of the teams Vandy played...but with Young.:wink:

Dolfan4life!
01-30-2006, 04:57 PM
Once again...

You said that VICK PROVED IT. Vick.

That's what YOU said. I was saying that was a uninformed statement. That statement. Specifically. See?
I never said Vick PROVED anything. Show me where I did.

nopony
01-30-2006, 04:58 PM
what two largely undeveloped quarterbacks do in college in terms of wins means absolutely NOTHING, especially when you compare the talent around the two. texas is at the top of the list every year when it comes to recruiting. vanderbilt? they're an education-first school with no athletic department. yes, no athletic department. if young actually won AT vanderbilt i'd think more of it, but since he won at texas behind a massive offensive line with blue-chippers at every position, i'll take that with a grain of salt. especially since he won in an offense completely removed from the NFL. looking at a college player's wins is pointless. you end up giving unnecessary praise to guys like ken dorsey, david greene, etc.

and as i said before, these are two DEVELOPMENTAL players, i.e., they aren't even close to being ready for the NFL. cutler and young have a lot in common actually. they're very athletic guys who started out their collegiate careers in an option-based offense, and just this past year were more focused on running a more wide-open passing offense. the difference in their development being that young had a much better coaching staff and supporting staff to help him progress as a QB. in a lot of ways (and you can see this from watching games), he used his teammates as a crutch on a lot of plays. it's not a BAD thing, but it just goes to show how raw he is and how he's not the "superman" he's proclaimed to be. cutler on the other hand, had to be trained by vanderbilt's coaching staff, with very little help from his team. throw all the various elements together, and COMMON SENSE tells you that not only would young have better stats, but more wins as well. vanderbilt lost to middle tennessee state for god's sake. vince young or no vince young, texas would slaughter MTSU easily.

Absolutely true that you look at everythin in context. But use perspective also. Young was DOMINATING.

Not true that wins mean nothing. Not true at all. Just like how they perform in big games means something. Intangibles are more important at the qb position than any other. And a guy who has proven he can make his team win or rise to the occasion in big games has a LOT of extra value. It matters.

nopony
01-30-2006, 05:00 PM
Don't mind them...they have nothing on you...and your opinion is as good as anyone's here.

Thanks Fishy. I gotta go. My head hurts from beating it against the wall. Take care.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
01-30-2006, 05:01 PM
Absolutely true that you look at everythin in context. But use perspective also. Young was DOMINATING.

Not true that wins mean nothing. Not true at all. Just like how they perform in big games means something. Intangibles are more important at the qb position than any other. And a guy who has proven he can make his team win or rise to the occasion in big games has a LOT of extra value. It matters.
young's dominance is owed a lot to his offensive line and his receiving corps that catch everything thrown their way.

wins mean nothing. cutler played just as clutch in 4th quarter of the florida game as any QB you'll see, and that was against a very good defense. he didn't win, but he could only do so much. put vince young in that situation, and it's the same thing.

arsenal
01-30-2006, 05:33 PM
young's dominance is owed a lot to his offensive line and his receiving corps that catch everything thrown their way.

so is leinart overrated because he had the best oline in the country and some of the best recievers? not to meniton 2 great backs? so he owes his success to his oline and receiving corp... and his oline and receivers were much better than texas, so by your logic leinart should go below both cutler and young?

Pennington's Rocket Arm
01-30-2006, 05:39 PM
you're thinking too concretely. at times young made decisions during a play where it was obvious he was hoping his teammates could bail him out. several times he would just scramble when pressure and throw the ball up hoping it would be caught. leinart doesn't do these things. he doesn't force passes. young also threw a lot of deep passes that his receiver would have to fight for to catch. you have to watch these guys play, and not just casually on a saturday afternoon. leinart makes his receivers look better. young's receivers make him look better as a passer, generally.

daniel3
01-30-2006, 06:46 PM
if you mean in the super bowl, young had 49 yards while ricky watters had 47 yards. the game wasn't won on young's feet. his 6 passing TDs had something to do with it. the year they won the super bowl he had 3.63 rushing attempts a game, less than his career average of 4.31 per game. as for elway, he had more TDs, but much less attempts, yards, and yards per carry, and even then, he was never a big threat to run.

I don't get it, why does he need to win the game on his feet? Isn't the point of a mobile QB to use his feet to facilitate his game, not to win using only it? Also, even though Elway averaged less ypg in the second half of his career, it still doesn't change the fact he was a mobile QB and a threat on the run inside the redzone. How can that not be a threat?

daniel3
01-30-2006, 07:00 PM
you're thinking too concretely. at times young made decisions during a play where it was obvious he was hoping his teammates could bail him out. several times he would just scramble when pressure and throw the ball up hoping it would be caught. leinart doesn't do these things. he doesn't force passes. young also threw a lot of deep passes that his receiver would have to fight for to catch. you have to watch these guys play, and not just casually on a saturday afternoon. leinart makes his receivers look better. young's receivers make him look better as a passer, generally.

USC's Matt Leinart doesn't force passes and makes his receivers play hard for the ball? Is this the same Leinart that has a good deal of his deep and some of his midrange throws float on him with frequency? Yet it's Youngs receivers that make him look like a better passer than he is? Something tells me Leinart probably gets as much if not more help with his passing effieciency as Vince Young.

You would have a better arguement attacking the fact that Young uses his TE's a lot and that because he is pretty accuracy within 20 or so yards, it hides the fact he isn't too much so with anything above 30.

rdhstlr23
01-30-2006, 07:02 PM
If I had my pick...I'd take D'Brickashaw Ferguson..haha

phinphan11
01-30-2006, 07:13 PM
Quinn

BlueFin
01-30-2006, 07:16 PM
if you had a choice of either Quinn, Leinart, Young, or Cutler who would you pick?


I'd take Quinn

While were fantasizing, lets throw in Marino and Elway as if they were coming in as rookies....................maybe not, whats the point of this thread?

BlueFin
01-30-2006, 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishypete
Don't mind them...they have nothing on you...and your opinion is as good as anyone's here.



Thanks Fishy. I gotta go. My head hurts from beating it against the wall. Take care.

And in Petes case, your opinion is even better than his, so hold your head up man.

Dolfinite
01-30-2006, 07:18 PM
2007 draft has a few good selections for the QB spot like Brady Quinn, Jordan Palmer, and Drew Stanton to name a few.
But if i had my way id take Quinn or Palmer. :goof: