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PressCoverage
02-09-2006, 04:26 AM
Good Gawd Jimmy...are you practicing your court room manor by destroying Press?

Pretty thorough thrashing there.

I was given a warning for piling on when another liberal poster obliterated ohall... Why does this guy get a free pass?

Section126
02-09-2006, 04:30 AM
I was given a warning for piling on when another liberal poster obliterated ohall... Why does this guy get a free pass?


Because I am a Republican and Bush has his henchmen monitoring this forum. Watch your step there.....:tantrum:

PressCoverage
02-09-2006, 05:50 AM
IMHO, it is very clear that the PoFo desperately needs either:

1) moderators who moderate and don't get involved in the debate... or

2) at least one active liberal moderator to even out the conservative one or two who control, ridicule and silence opinion

Wildbill3
02-09-2006, 05:53 AM
IMHO, it is very clear that the PoFo desperately needs either:

1) moderators who moderate and don't get involved in the debate... or

2) at least one active liberal moderator to even out the conservative one or two who control, ridicule and silence opinionShow me one instance where legitimate debate was silenced or halted by moderator(s) in the Political Forum.

If it's fairness you are asking about, I have banned many more "Cons" than I have dems, however the specifics and names will not be talked about in this forum or any other, because those people served their time, and for the most part returned to the PoFo, and haven't given us many problems since then.

PressCoverage
02-09-2006, 05:57 AM
I believe i respectfully documented six instances of hypocrisy in a private message i sent to you... You know, the one you brought out to a public thread to dispute without every really writing me back personally?

Regardless, you sway PoFo opinion and extent of responses after you enter the debate itself... You're a super moderator, for God sakes... Don't you feel it's a bit of a conflict of interest to be jumping into the fray on one side, and not merely monitoring the fray?

Wildbill3
02-09-2006, 06:00 AM
I believe i respectfully documented six instances of hypocrisy in a private message i sent to you... You know, the one you brought out to a public thread to dispute without every really writing me back personally?

Regardless, you sway PoFo opinion and extent of responses after you enter the debate itself... You're a super moderator, for God sakes... Don't you feel it's a bit of a conflict of interest to be jumping into the fray on one side, and not merely monitoring the fray?All of which occured after my warnings to everybody the night you got 24 hours off right?

PressCoverage
02-09-2006, 06:12 AM
I never saw any warning before that post ... Not saying it didn't exist, just saying i don't remember seeing it in that particular instance... Saying someone "lacks a longrange clue" didn't seem like a suspendable offense, considering I've seen it from others only about 50 times with no suspension... If those are the grounds for "annoyance", then why aren't the suspensions raining down?

Regardless, don't you feel that's a little flimsy, to assume everyone saw your warning in one part of one post among 50 or so? Hopefully the new warning system irons that out.

The point is, you, as a super moderator, jump all over me and other anti-war posters with your own rhetoric in the debate itself. That is fine. But, it seems to take a hell of a lot more for a conservative poster to get a warning, suspension, or to have his post/poll moved or deleted.

I show a lot more respect than some of your allies in the PoFo, who flat insult, lie and misrepesent their opponent's very words altogether. Nothing is ever really done about it. I say for the first time ever "he lacks a longrange clue about geopolitics" and i'm given the public fast track to 24 hour break.

In response to your treatment, i've stepped up complaints in the face of several personal insults received. I've yet to receive a response or see a single warning given.

Again, I really don't care. And I'm not a tattler. I'm just asking for fair treatment from the refs in the most volatile forum on this site.

Wildbill3
02-09-2006, 06:52 AM
(quick note... I Just had an entire book of a response deleted because the system logged me out, I'll try to recreate the better parts of it...)

First things first, I have no allies in the Pofo, I side with no one, and no one sides with me. I say what is on my mind, in a manner that adheres to the rules (well unless blitz is concerned, but I consider him a friend, and we have an understanding, I think) and if someone agrees with me fine, and if they don't, well that's good too, what's the point of debate if everyone agrees with everyone else? Second the PoFo is not a war zone, it is a debate forum, if you want trash talk and to bash other posters, the depths of the sea is just down the hall.

Second, you may percieve me as biased, but then as proven by your recent posts, everyone who isn't with you, must be against you, middle ground need not apply. That's fine too, I can't help how you percieve me or anyone else, the only thing I promise anyone is that I'll ban everyone with equal enthusiasim, provided I think it is warrented. And in your case, at the time I gave you the ban, I felt you had been warned in the past and that a reminder wasn't needed. You don't agree with that line of reasoning, okay, so how do you propose to fix that problem?

Let me point out the things you have done to fix that problem.

Good: report posts that are bashing other posters, or are against TOS. Very good that is all we ask of all of our posters.

Bad: You took several oppurtunties to critisize Moderator(s) in thread, and you were informed more than once where the proper forum for such questioning was. In fact this very thread started with yet another off topic post aimed at critisizing Moderator(s).

As to missing other posts that were of personal attack in nature, the POFO is the third largest forum on Finheaven, think about that. Do you honestly think that working two jobs, caring for a wife, my son, animals, and a little free time to myself away from a computer, that I can participate in every thread, and moderator every post? Be honest, with yourself, and realize the answer is no.

Finally if you feel you were owed an apology, all you had to do was say so, should you have to ask for one? No, but taking the approach you took doesn't exactly encourage anyone to review your case and to take your side.

Regardless, I'm sorry that you didn't recieve a warning prior to your ban, I thought (wrongly) that an in-thread warning would be enough to stop the rancor the night you were banned. I was wrong.

I hope this clears up matters. And one more note, I am far less likely to ban anyone in any thread I participate in, because that is a personal rule of mine, that if I am involved, I won't take action in a thread, unless it is something obvious like a cuss word. And even then, I'll report the post and let another mod take care of it.

Anything else you want to talk about? I sure we can handle it here or via another PM. And yes, sometimes PMs are discussed with other staff, to handle esp. difficult cases, or ones a staff member feels they are too involved with.

3P
02-09-2006, 09:10 AM
To start off, PC... I don't give a rat's hind quarters about politics. I don't even know enough about parties and all of that nonsense to classify someone based on their beliefs. I really have no interest in it at all.

You should also know that I've read every PM you've sent, and that yes the staff does share information with each other. We're a team, and you don't get the option to deal strictly with one mod... it just doesn't work that way.

Also note that while we appreciate your reporting posts as you should, you are not a moderator of this forum. You have no right to report posts with the expectation that a moderator will agree with you and take action, and you certainly have no right to get upset or feel slighted when they don't. Your situation and everyone else’s' situation are not one in the same, so you should not expect every post you report to be acted upon in the same manner that you have received in the past.

When you report a post in the manner you have taken to doing, you should note that it is not well received. You are actually hurting your cause by taking an authoritative tone, and giving the mod a feeling of being told how to do his or her job. We do not condone what I like to call "comparative reporting" and yes, it does make you a tattletale. This is not the route to go if you feel the post is a legitimate concern, it often results in no action being taken. This is true in any forum, despite political affiliation, gender, sexual orientation, sports team preferences, favorite foods, favorite color, and anything else you might feel we are biased towards. Also, keep in mind that we do not handle every reported post in the same manner... sometimes a private warning that you are not privy to is warranted. Please do not pretend that you know everything that goes on, because I can assure you that you do not.

As for your specific case, since you don't seem to mind discussing it in public:

When a member has to be warned several times within a fairly small space of time, more serious action is taken. We do not generally ban someone on their first offense, unless it is of a particularly heinous nature. Also, we know that people feel fairly strong about issues discussed within this forum, so we are much, much more forgiving about offenses that take place. It takes quite a bit to push a mod to the point of banning you, so you should keep that in mind.

I have, and will continue to monitor Bill's decisions in this forum, and I will act if I ever feel he is being biased or unfair in his moderation. To date, he has not given me any reason to.

If we really wanted to silence you, we could very easily ban anyone who apposes our beliefs summarily and permanently. You should note that 99% of the bans that take place in this forum are for 24 hours, and as such designed simply to give someone who is hot under the collar a chance to cool off. More to the point, if we really wanted to silence people... we'd simply remove this forum altogether and make our lives easier, being that this is a Miami Dolphins message board and all.

We don't do that though, because we want to give our members what they want. Playing the "everyone is out to get me" card is overdone, and quite frankly it's lame. I would expect this forum to contain the best and brightest of Finheaven given the sort of individuals who are drawn to it's discussion. Drop the martyr act, and really look at the facts and it should be quite obvious that we are not biased at all.

Section126
02-09-2006, 12:16 PM
Wait a minute....I just realized something (because I thought it was too ridiculous to be true)....

Did this guy report me and wanted me banned because of the post of mine he quoted?

Is this what went on here?

Is this a joke?

WharfRat
02-09-2006, 12:18 PM
IMHO, it is very clear that the PoFo desperately needs either:

1) moderators who moderate and don't get involved in the debate... or

2) at least one active liberal moderator to even out the conservative one or two who control, ridicule and silence opinion

first of all... read phinphanphrommi's post above...absorb it. One thing to be sure of, I agree with everything he said, as does the entire staff.

second of all... moderators shouldn't be allowed to enter a debate? why? because they sometimes don't take your side? C'mon man, that's absurd. Moderators and Admins are a part of the conversations in EVERY forum on this site. If we don't agree with the Dolphins signing TO, the we have every right to express our opinions in the Dolphins forums... same holds true with the Poli forum.

third ... again... I'm niehter "active conservative" nor "active liberal", and I'm in there quite a bit.... I rather resent the "libs" who want to label me as a "con", and the "cons" that want to label me as a "lib", simply because I don't agree with everything they believe in. Rather short-sighted, if you ask me.

inFINSible
02-09-2006, 05:57 PM
Wait a minute....I just realized something (because I thought it was too ridiculous to be true)....

Did this guy report me and wanted me banned because of the post of mine he quoted?

Is this what went on here?

Is this a joke?
This can be handled without your "help".

Section126
02-09-2006, 11:58 PM
This can be handled without your "help".


I am not offering any "help".

I asked a question and made an observation....no need to get smug.

Buddwalk
02-10-2006, 12:48 AM
Republicans :yes:
Democrats :shakeno:

WharfRat
02-10-2006, 07:12 AM
I am not offering any "help".

I asked a question and made an observation....no need to get smug.

No need to be beligerent either :wink:

inFINSible
02-10-2006, 08:46 AM
I am not offering any "help".

I asked a question and made an observation....no need to get smug.

No need for you to be antagonistic.

NJFINSFAN1
02-10-2006, 08:54 AM
first of all... read phinphanphrommi's post above...absorb it. One thing to be sure of, I agree with everything he said, as does the entire staff.

second of all... moderators shouldn't be allowed to enter a debate? why? because they sometimes don't take your side? C'mon man, that's absurd. Moderators and Admins are a part of the conversations in EVERY forum on this site. If we don't agree with the Dolphins signing TO, the we have every right to express our opinions in the Dolphins forums... same holds true with the Poli forum.

third ... again... I'm niehter "active conservative" nor "active liberal", and I'm in there quite a bit.... I rather resent the "libs" who want to label me as a "con", and the "cons" that want to label me as a "lib", simply because I don't agree with everything they believe in. Rather short-sighted, if you ask me.


Does this make you a Libcon??:njphins:

FIN-IN-RI
02-10-2006, 09:33 AM
i fall somewhere in the middle

Section126
02-10-2006, 01:55 PM
No need for you to be antagonistic.

Yeah. I gotcha. Sorry bout that. I just thought I was getting smacked down for no reason.

I apologize. You guys are good mods.

:cuddle:

WharfRat
02-10-2006, 02:34 PM
Does this make you a Libcon??:njphins:

I'll explain it all to you... but it won't all fit into one PM... I'll have to send you 6-7 of them :evil:

inFINSible
02-10-2006, 06:11 PM
Yeah. I gotcha. Sorry bout that. I just thought I was getting smacked down for no reason.

I apologize. You guys are good mods.

:cuddle:
Thanks man, we appreciate your response. :D

Fin Fan in Cali
02-10-2006, 07:22 PM
I'll explain it all to you... but it won't all fit into one PM... I'll have to send you 6-7 of them :evil::sidelol: :wink:

PressCoverage
02-23-2006, 01:33 PM
Wait a minute....I just realized something (because I thought it was too ridiculous to be true)....

Did this guy report me and wanted me banned because of the post of mine he quoted?

Is this what went on here?

Is this a joke?

No, i didn't report you, nor did i suggest you be banned... I was questioning consistency in the wake of my 24-hour suspension. ...

For that, i've been given a sufficient explanation. ... However, now that it's been spelled out for me, that we can't fight fire with fire and must report it, you can rest assured i'll be speaking up concerning your future jabs.

Section126
02-23-2006, 01:52 PM
No, i didn't report you, nor did i suggest you be banned... I was questioning consistency in the wake of my 24-hour suspension. ...

For that, i've been given a sufficient explanation. ... However, now that it's been spelled out for me, that we can't fight fire with fire and must report it, you can rest assured i'll be speaking up concerning your future jabs.


As I will of yours. Better clean up your act. You got the whole POFO telling you to tone it down and you post this on here?

Gonna be interesting to see if you can make one post without calling all of those that disagree with you idiots, morons, Nazi's or your favorite...."ignorant".

WharfRat
02-23-2006, 02:03 PM
No, i didn't report you, nor did i suggest you be banned... I was questioning consistency in the wake of my 24-hour suspension. ...

For that, i've been given a sufficient explanation. ... However, now that it's been spelled out for me, that we can't fight fire with fire and must report it, you can rest assured i'll be speaking up concerning your future jabs.

Now why on earth did you feel the need to dig this back up?

PressCoverage
02-23-2006, 03:09 PM
Because he suggested in the PoFo i attempted to have him banned.... So I found this quote above, a post I missed back then, or I'd have enthusiastically addressed it at the time...

Anyhow, the exchange was hijacking another thread there, and I brought it back here.

For the record, this thread here was not created here by me back then, it was spliced from another thread and moved to this forum by a moderator.


As I will of yours. Better clean up your act. You got the whole POFO telling you to tone it down and you post this on here?

Gonna be interesting to see if you can make one post without calling all of those that disagree with you idiots, morons, Nazi's or your favorite...."ignorant".

Again, show me where I called anyone in particular who posts on here "idiot, moron or nazi" ... It never happened... Search away, if you like... Use the advance search... You won't wind a single instance of any of those words attributed to posters here by me... Celebrities? Members of the Bush administration? Perhaps... But no personal attacks from me to others on finheaven's PoFo using those words... In fact, no personal attacks or individually or specificly targeted name-calling anywhere by me...

But, again, you're making up things... Which is really the whole reason for this thread in the first place.

And no, not the whole PoFo, just you and three others who want a liberal with some backbone around here quiet.

Section126
02-23-2006, 03:38 PM
And no, not the whole PoFo, just you and three others who want a liberal with some backbone around here quiet.

Dude...you are now getting compliments when you just post that it is "your opinion" of such and such...

go look...you are getting credit now for run of the mill posts.

You are way too angry and antagonistic.

WharfRat
02-23-2006, 04:53 PM
Because he suggested in the PoFo i attempted to have him banned.... So I found this quote above, a post I missed back then, or I'd have enthusiastically addressed it at the time... [quote]

Where?
[quote=PressCoverage]
For the record, this thread here was not created here by me back then, it was spliced from another thread and moved to this forum by a moderator. Kudos to the mod who did it.




And no, not the whole PoFo, just you and three others who want a liberal with some backbone around here quiet.

Yikes...
Paranoid much?





/waits to be called a right winger....

backpacker
02-23-2006, 05:01 PM
Right winger!

WharfRat
02-23-2006, 05:29 PM
Right winger!

:smackhead :shakeno:

:lol:

What's really funny about that, is, I'm probably more Lib than I am Con... but I hate labels... so when I don't agree with an issue that a Lib takes, automatically, I'm branded as a Right winger... it happens the other way around too...

I wish they'd make up their minds...:goof:

PressCoverage
02-23-2006, 07:18 PM
Dude...you are now getting compliments when you just post that it is "your opinion" of such and such...

go look...you are getting credit now for run of the mill posts.

You are way too angry and antagonistic.

just curious, before we put this thread to bed... any luck finding an instance where i called anyone here an "idiot, moron or nazi?"

Quelonio
02-25-2006, 04:00 AM
Now I hate to get into this one... Especially because it is not really my fight, and becaue I tend to not like to try to tell anyone how to run things in their home... But it is true that in the Po/Fo there are posters who do not accept criticism to certain politics, created by certain president, and/or military, and/or republican party (which are the people that we, mistakingly maybe, consider right wing posters, compared to us the people who actually put up these particular criticisms which are considered left wing posters) and express that rejection through harsh words, and namecalling.

This attitude is completely allowed, without any problems (which is understandable since there has to be some antagonism in a political forum, the very nature of it makes it necessary) but we (the so perceived left wingers) strongly believe that in some moments this posters (I got 2 in mind, but I aint saying who) get a more lenient approach to their personal attacks than the one we (not me, since I don't believe I have insulted someone, but people like Press Coverage) get for our retorts to the same attacks...

Now this ended up being a long post... But I do believe this to be true.

Wildbill3
02-25-2006, 11:24 AM
Now I hate to get into this one... Especially because it is not really my fight, and becaue I tend to not like to try to tell anyone how to run things in their home... But it is true that in the Po/Fo there are posters who do not accept criticism to certain politics, created by certain president, and/or military, and/or republican party (which are the people that we, mistakingly maybe, consider right wing posters, compared to us the people who actually put up these particular criticisms which are considered left wing posters) and express that rejection through harsh words, and namecalling.

This attitude is completely allowed, without any problems (which is understandable since there has to be some antagonism in a political forum, the very nature of it makes it necessary) but we (the so perceived left wingers) strongly believe that in some moments this posters (I got 2 in mind, but I aint saying who) get a more lenient approach to their personal attacks than the one we (not me, since I don't believe I have insulted someone, but people like Press Coverage) get for our retorts to the same attacks...

Now this ended up being a long post... But I do believe this to be true.Don't worry, your perceptions are about to change.

Section126
02-25-2006, 01:02 PM
just curious, before we put this thread to bed... any luck finding an instance where i called anyone here an "idiot, moron or nazi?"


Press....it is in every one of your posts. I was obviously paraphrasing, but you do prefice every post with a quip on how those that disagree with you are not only wrong, but have either bad intentions or are just plain not Intelligent.

Quelonio
02-25-2006, 02:20 PM
Don't worry, your perceptions are about to change.

Cool, looking forward to that.

PressCoverage
02-26-2006, 12:05 PM
Press....it is in every one of your posts. I was obviously paraphrasing, but you do prefice every post with a quip on how those that disagree with you are not only wrong, but have either bad intentions or are just plain not Intelligent.

i'm sorry Section... but that's just not the case at all... not only have you completely misrepresented what i say, and admitted bad paraphrasing (which i'm not sure you understand the definition of) but you're stretching your point based on emotion...

i do not question people's intelligence... only thier blatant overconfidence... nor have i ever, EVER suggested anyone here was a nazi... spin it any way you like, but you're blatantly lying...

inFINSible
02-26-2006, 12:48 PM
i'm sorry Section... but that's just not the case at all... not only have you completely misrepresented what i say, and admitted bad paraphrasing (which i'm not sure you understand the definition of) but you're stretching your point based on emotion...

i do not question people's intelligence... only thier blatant overconfidence... nor have i ever, EVER suggested anyone here was a nazi... spin it any way you like, but you're blatantly lying...
Yes, you do, regularly.

And being called on it by section126 is the height of irony.

BOTH, of you have an attitude that comes across as extremely arrogant, intolerant, and combative. 99% of confilcts on this site involve at least one person of this personality type. While yes, I did pull that number from my hiney, I'm sure that any staff member and many members would agree with that conservative estimate.

Now, I'm not saying this as a way to attack either of your character because I'm sure neither of you demonstate any of those traits in the real world. I can only assume that, A} You are not aware of the way your words come across in print or B} That I'm wrong, you are aware, and it is either intentional or uncontrollable.

If it were A, life would be great and perhaps you'd both start paying more attention to the way you are perceived by others and the conflict it arouses, and we could all move on happily leaving this silliness behind.

Unfortunately, if it's B, neither case is acceptable.

You both need to decide where we go from here. Your back and forth fighting cannot continue. Please, for everyone's sake, debate and be civil, or live and let live, or even use the ignore feature.

I certainly don't want either of you lost from this site, you're both extremely intelligent and interesting posters. This site would be less with either of you gone.

And with that, this thread is closed.