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Dubfire
02-09-2006, 10:05 PM
:lifter:

For all you gym rats that take them, which ones do you swear by?

Either for bulking up or slimming down?:cooldude:

Buddwalk
02-09-2006, 10:11 PM
We have a 103 lber on our wrestling team kid weighs about 90 lbs normally has been taking weight gainer to add bulk for sectionals and hes already at 100 lbs.

HansMojo
02-09-2006, 10:26 PM
:lifter:

For all you gym rats that take them, which ones do you swear by?

Either for bulking up or slimming down?:cooldude:
I think a lot of it comes down to individual needs. I'd recommend that you find someone fairly knowledgeable who can evaluate your personal body type (fat percentage etc), your diet, as well as your work out goals and give you an idea of what you should take based on all that. I don't think it's wise to just try what is working for someone else who might have a completely different situation. I recently started going back to the gym (a week and a 1/2 ago) and the GNC manager recommended a multivitamin and a protein supplement. He was even able to workup exactly how much additional protein I should take in, and even at what times of the day depending on my workout. According to him, I'm at about 6% body fat right now. I am really just trying to get some size and strength back that I've lost after injuries.

Dubfire
02-09-2006, 10:36 PM
I think a lot of it comes down to individual needs. I'd recommend that you find someone fairly knowledgeable who can evaluate your personal body type (fat percentage etc), your diet, as well as your work out goals and give you an idea of what you should take based on all that. I don't think it's wise to just try what is working for someone else who might have a completely different situation. I recently started going back to the gym (a week and a 1/2 ago) and the GNC manager recommended a multivitamin and a protein supplement. He was even able to workup exactly how much additional protein I should take in, and even at what times of the day depending on my workout. According to him, I'm at about 6% body fat right now. I am really just trying to get some size and strength back that I've lost after injuries.

I agree. All I'm taking right now is a multi-vitamin from GNC and a whey protein after my workouts.

6 years ago Creatine was the "in" thing. Everyone was taking it. I was 21 at the time and it helped increase my strength tremendously and upper body size. I'm not a tall guy so I'm not looking to add size at all. The days of me going into the gym and trying to outbench my buddies are over. Now I just want to feel healthy.

Alex44
02-09-2006, 10:39 PM
Wow this is the perfect thread for this

Ok im about 6'0 or 6'1 age almost 16, and I play reciever

My weight is about 160, and I want to gain about 30 pounds of muscle mostly in my upper body.

What would I do? or take? NO STEROIDS :lol:

PassRush
02-09-2006, 10:40 PM
When I played football and I needed to bulk up I swore by Creatine, I dont care how many theorys are out about it, I was benching 315 at one point and able to do 14 reps at 260. I was squating close to 480 and I was deadlifting god knows what. I bulked up from 182 to an ungodly 218 at one point.

I cannot believe I let myself go the way I did:shakeno:

Buddwalk
02-09-2006, 10:41 PM
Wow this is the perfect thread for this

Ok im about 6'0 or 6'1 age almost 16, and I play reciever

My weight is about 160, and I want to gain about 30 pounds of muscle mostly in my upper body.

What would I do? or take? NO STEROIDS :lol:


Over how long of a period of time do you want to add 30 lbs. Weight Gainer actually does work...and if you work vigerously in the weight room all the weight it adds will turn into muscle you'll burn off a lil bit you add but over a period of a year you could add 20-30 lbs. of muscle

Alex44
02-09-2006, 10:45 PM
Over how long of a period of time do you want to add 30 lbs. Weight Gainer actually does work...and if you work vigerously in the weight room all the weight it adds will turn into muscle you'll burn off a lil bit you add but over a period of a year you could add 20-30 lbs. of muscle


Well I dont expect to wake up tomorrow and have 30 extra pounds, there really isnt a time frame as long as there is constant progress towards the goal

Passrush- Whats Creatine :confused:

Buddwalk
02-09-2006, 10:46 PM
Well I dont expect to wake up tomorrow and have 30 extra pounds, there really isnt a time frame as long as there is constant progress towards the goal

Passrush- Whats Creatine :confused:

Makes the veins in your body stick out...im pretty sure it drains the water in your system to make you look more ripped its dumb

HansMojo
02-09-2006, 10:50 PM
I agree. All I'm taking right now is a multi-vitamin from GNC and a whey protein after my workouts.

6 years ago Creatine was the "in" thing. Everyone was taking it. I was 21 at the time and it helped increase my strength tremendously and upper body size. I'm not a tall guy so I'm not looking to add size at all. The days of me going into the gym and trying to outbench my buddies are over. Now I just want to feel healthy.Cool. In that case, it seems a product called ON 100% Whey Gold Standard is considered to be the best whey protein out there right now...and I read a lot of stuff researching it. It is one of the cheaper ones per gram as well and can be bought at any GNC. But I would still recommend having someone help you calculate the right amounts to take (which changes when your weight changes). Taking excessive amounts just over works your kidneys and ends up in the toilet anyway. I'm taking the vegetarian multi-vitamin from GNC since I'm a veggie...so I probably wouldn't be much use to you there. I'm also taking Myoplex lite with breakfast. Anyway, good luck!

Nappy Roots
02-09-2006, 10:52 PM
Makes the veins in your body stick out...im pretty sure it drains the water in your system to make you look more ripped its dumb


wrong, it HOLDS water in your body. Creatine is a great supplment. If youve never taken any, i suggest starting with creatine Alex

HansMojo
02-09-2006, 11:01 PM
wrong, it HOLDS water in your body. Creatine is a great supplment. If youve never taken any, i suggest starting with creatine.
It does work...quite well actually. I started to try it myself, but then I spoke to some friends that had been using it and they said although it increased their size and strength rapidly, that after they quit taking it, they also lost all their gains...and very rapidly. I've read the same thing online. I'm not saying that happens to everyone...and it certainly does help you increase rapidly. But for me, I decided to go the slower/cheaper approach and just do protein and multivitamins. To each his own.

PassRush
02-09-2006, 11:01 PM
wrong, it HOLDS water in your body. Creatine is a great supplment. If youve never taken any, i suggest starting with creatine Alex

Actualy I disagree, after re-reading Alex's post I notice he was playing reciever and I am not so sure it is the best option. The rapid muscle gain may slow you down significantly.

Nappy Roots
02-09-2006, 11:04 PM
Actualy I disagree, after re-reading Alex's post I notice he was playing reciever and I am not so sure it is the best option. The rapid muscle gain may slow you down significantly.


well depending on how you workout, no supplement is going to slow you down. If your doing powing lifting, obviously yea, it will slow you down.

tucker
02-09-2006, 11:04 PM
right now i've been taking a supp called Xtend that is full of amino acids made by scivation..it reduces doms which is that sore feeling you get after you work out and gives you a more focused feeling..if your not at least 17 creatine isnt needed tho...just eat LOTS and work your a$$ off..but i recommend creatine ester...alot better than regular creatine

Nappy Roots
02-09-2006, 11:06 PM
It does work...quite well actually. I started to try it myself, but then I spoke to some friends that had been using it and they said although it increased their size and strength rapidly, that after they quit taking it, they also lost all their gains...and very rapidly. I've read the same thing online. I'm not saying that happens to everyone...and it certainly does help you increase rapidly. But for me, I decided to go the slower/cheaper approach and just do protein and multivitamins. To each his own.


your right, it does take off when you stop fast. I did that, and lost some muscle. my friend who is a pitcher slowly came off, and didnt lose any weight.

right now, im doing everything natural. i dunno why, i guess cause i dont got money right now.

Nappy Roots
02-09-2006, 11:08 PM
NO Xplode is the most popular with people i know.

http://bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/xplode.html

HansMojo
02-09-2006, 11:14 PM
your right, it does take off when you stop fast. I did that, and lost some muscle. my friend who is a pitcher slowly came off, and didnt lose any weight.

right now, im doing everything natural. i dunno why, i guess cause i dont got money right now.
Natural is always best IMHO. Way to go man. It's just slower and harder to achieve your goals that way sometimes.

Dubfire
02-09-2006, 11:20 PM
Cool. In that case, it seems a product called ON 100% Whey Gold Standard is considered to be the best whey protein out there right now...and I read a lot of stuff researching it. It is one of the cheaper ones per gram as well and can be bought at any GNC. But I would still recommend having someone help you calculate the right amounts to take (which changes when your weight changes). Taking excessive amounts just over works your kidneys and ends up in the toilet anyway. I'm taking the vegetarian multi-vitamin from GNC since I'm a veggie...so I probably wouldn't be much use to you there. I'm also taking Myoplex lite with breakfast. Anyway, good luck!


I got that too without doing the research and then I read that it is one of the best Whey powders out right now. I got the strawberry by mistake. Tastes really good though.

HansMojo
02-09-2006, 11:20 PM
NO Xplode is the most popular with people i know.

http://bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/xplode.html
From that same website (which has some great articles and reviews IMHO) here is a link to the top sellers for all categories of muscle development products:

http://bodybuilding.com/store/musclegain.htm

Some very useful info there...

HansMojo
02-09-2006, 11:24 PM
I got that too without doing the research and then I read that it is one of the best Whey powders out right now. I got the strawberry by mistake. Tastes really good though.Yeah, it was voted "supplement of the year" and "protein powder of the year" for 2005.
http://bodybuilding.com/fun/supplementawardwinners.htm

I got the strawberry one too. :lol:

fishfanfromjerz
02-09-2006, 11:33 PM
whatever you do dude, dont use steroids......you may not want to now....but perhaps down the road you may be hit with some peer pressure to do so, or someone may tell you that the proper mix of assorted roids do not hurt ya.....but avoid it at all cost....you seem smart enough already to be avoiding that route......i had a friend who used roids and ended up having one of his **** balloon out after several years of taking em...(dont ask how cuz i dont know...i didnt bother asking) ..........also....if u take roids, you may get huge quickly, but once you stop and stop working out for awhile, you turn to fat......if you stop for awhile after lifting naturally, youll still retain much more muscle as opposed to roids...and in my opinion, have the ability to regain your strength much quicker.....................ps..roids shrink your nuts....women want men with big balls

UCFinfan86
02-09-2006, 11:41 PM
i started working out 2 months ago. Im 17 and 5'10 and started at 130 lbs. I have been takin Muscle Milk(only about once a week) and aobut 2-3 protein bars a week(usually the day i work out). In the 2 months i have gained 13 lbs. I work out anywhere form 1-4 times a week depending on my work schedule. I like the protein bars, if you can find one that taste good. Right now im taking Cliff Builders chocolate. 20 grams per bar. I am thinking about going about the same route until summer time when i plan on buying a thing of creatine. I am going to try and really work out alot in the summer this way when i go to college next year and i work out at the gym i will be bigger because when i visited the campus almost all of the kids in the gym were big. Anywayz my question is for the price of creatine, i think it was like 65$ last i looked. Is there better options? Nitrotech? Celltech?

Also my bench press is weird i was wondering if anyone else is like this. I rep with about 120-125. But yet my max is like 140. I have no idea why it is

Nappy Roots
02-09-2006, 11:44 PM
i started working out 2 months ago. Im 17 and 5'10 and started at 130 lbs. I have been takin Muscle Milk(only about once a week) and aobut 2-3 protein bars a week(usually the day i work out). In the 2 months i have gained 13 lbs. I work out anywhere form 1-4 times a week depending on my work schedule. I like the protein bars, if you can find one that taste good. Right now im taking Cliff Builders chocolate. 20 grams per bar. I am thinking about going about the same route until summer time when i plan on buying a thing of creatine. I am going to try and really work out alot in the summer this way when i go to college next year and i work out at the gym i will be bigger because when i visited the campus almost all of the kids in the gym were big. Anywayz my question is for the price of creatine, i think it was like 65$ last i looked. Is there better options? Nitrotech? Celltech?

Also my bench press is weird i was wondering if anyone else is like this. I rep with about 120-125. But yet my max is like 140. I have no idea why it is


here is the #1 on the market right now, for under 65.
http://bodybuilding.com/store/opt/whey.html

also, when you max bench, what do you do for warmups?

Dubfire
02-09-2006, 11:45 PM
From what I've read, no matter what your goals are, it's a good idea to supplement your workouts with some type of 100% Whey powder after the workout and before you go to bed.

HansMojo
02-09-2006, 11:50 PM
Wow this is the perfect thread for this

Ok im about 6'0 or 6'1 age almost 16, and I play reciever

My weight is about 160, and I want to gain about 30 pounds of muscle mostly in my upper body.

What would I do? or take? NO STEROIDS :lol:
Somehow I missed this earlier... You should really talk to your coach about this but I'm guessing you burn a lot of calories and so adding something like myoplex that is kind of a whole meal in and of itself might be better than just straight protein supplementing for you. I wouldn't recommend anyone actually replacing meals with these things. But if you are trying to gain muscle, are excercising and eating healthy already, it's just something you can add into your diet which should help you reach your goal of gaining 30 pounds of muscle. But really, probably none of us here are qualified to give health advice. You should really speak to your coach and have someone evaluate your body type etc. and tailor something to your specific needs.

HansMojo
02-09-2006, 11:56 PM
i started working out 2 months ago. Im 17 and 5'10 and started at 130 lbs. I have been takin Muscle Milk(only about once a week) and aobut 2-3 protein bars a week(usually the day i work out). In the 2 months i have gained 13 lbs. I work out anywhere form 1-4 times a week depending on my work schedule. I like the protein bars, if you can find one that taste good. Right now im taking Cliff Builders chocolate. 20 grams per bar. I am thinking about going about the same route until summer time when i plan on buying a thing of creatine. I am going to try and really work out alot in the summer this way when i go to college next year and i work out at the gym i will be bigger because when i visited the campus almost all of the kids in the gym were big. Anywayz my question is for the price of creatine, i think it was like 65$ last i looked. Is there better options? Nitrotech? Celltech?

Also my bench press is weird i was wondering if anyone else is like this. I rep with about 120-125. But yet my max is like 140. I have no idea why it is
This will link you to info about Creatine as well as a comparison pricing by the gram. You can sort it different ways:
http://bodybuilding.com/store/creatine.html

Pagan
02-09-2006, 11:59 PM
Natural is always best IMHO. Way to go man. It's just slower and harder to achieve your goals that way sometimes.
Bingo.

Dubfire
02-09-2006, 11:59 PM
When I played football and I needed to bulk up I swore by Creatine, I dont care how many theorys are out about it, I was benching 315 at one point and able to do 14 reps at 260. I was squating close to 480 and I was deadlifting god knows what. I bulked up from 182 to an ungodly 218 at one point.

I cannot believe I let myself go the way I did:shakeno:

I went from 165 to 190 in 5 years of college. Not fat either. I was benching 327 and could do 315 3-4 times. I started nt pyramids at 185. 12 reps easy. Now, I'd be lucky to get 8 of 135. :lol: Creatine worked, it was like fuel to my body. Moreso for the endurance it would give me throug the high intensity workouts.

Nappy Roots
02-09-2006, 11:59 PM
Also my bench press is weird i was wondering if anyone else is like this. I rep with about 120-125. But yet my max is like 140. I have no idea why it is


For some more insight. . . . . . .

During football i was benching 270 or so. after school stopped, i stopped. recently im back in the gym, my Max is at about 240-250 range. As far as reps, this is what i do for more reps and for max

More Reps: I start out with 135, doing 15 reps of this. Add 20, 155, doing 12-15. Add 30, 185, 10 Reps. Add 20, 210, 6-7 reps. Add 20, 225, 2-5 reps. Subtract 10, 3-6 reps. Subtract 20, 4-6 reps. Subtract 30, Rep out, usually 10-12. Then I dumbbell bench, 3 sets, start out with 65s, and move up 5 each set, Doing 7-12 reps of them. After dumbbell I move on to Incline & Decline. Doing usually 3-5 sets, moving up, then down to rep out.

Max: 135 5 reps. 155, 5 reps. 185 2 reps. 225 1 rep. 235 1 rep. 245 1 rep if i can.

HansMojo
02-10-2006, 12:00 AM
From what I've read, no matter what your goals are, it's a good idea to supplement your workouts with some type of 100% Whey powder after the workout and before you go to bed.Either that or you need to make sure and get enough protein from other means to feed your muscles. Otherwise your body will breakdown muscle from some other area of the body to compensate. For instance if you work your upper body, but don't have enough protein available, your body will probably breakdown muscle in your legs to feed the muscles you just worked out. Not a good thing. Whey powder is certainly one of the easiest ways of making sure you have enough protein available. The GNC guy has me taking half a serving 30 minutes before a workout and a full serving 20 minutes after.

Dubfire
02-10-2006, 12:06 AM
It does work...quite well actually. I started to try it myself, but then I spoke to some friends that had been using it and they said although it increased their size and strength rapidly, that after they quit taking it, they also lost all their gains...and very rapidly. I've read the same thing online. I'm not saying that happens to everyone...and it certainly does help you increase rapidly. But for me, I decided to go the slower/cheaper approach and just do protein and multivitamins. To each his own.

Creatine worked well for me. I have not lost much if at all of th muscle and bulk I gained while taking it. Then again, once it got me to where I wanted, I stopped and kept working out on a rather consistent basis.

Take it for that and for the stamina you'll get. It's unreal. I was 5'8 175 benching 330. Reason? Creatine gave me the stamina to work out harder and longer. Drink lots of water while taking it before, after and during to avoid cramping up. I mixed mine with 100% grape juice.

Edit: Quoting you Hans, but speaking to Alex22.

FinaciousOne
02-10-2006, 12:31 AM
For some more insight. . . . . . .

During football i was benching 270 or so. after school stopped, i stopped. recently im back in the gym, my Max is at about 240-250 range. As far as reps, this is what i do for more reps and for max

More Reps: I start out with 135, doing 15 reps of this. Add 20, 155, doing 12-15. Add 30, 185, 10 Reps. Add 20, 210, 6-7 reps. Add 20, 225, 2-5 reps. Subtract 10, 3-6 reps. Subtract 20, 4-6 reps. Subtract 30, Rep out, usually 10-12. Then I dumbbell bench, 3 sets, start out with 65s, and move up 5 each set, Doing 7-12 reps of them. After dumbbell I move on to Incline & Decline. Doing usually 3-5 sets, moving up, then down to rep out.

Max: 135 5 reps. 155, 5 reps. 185 2 reps. 225 1 rep. 235 1 rep. 245 1 rep if i can.

Whew! I broke a sweat just reading that.:lol:

HysterikiLL
02-10-2006, 01:52 AM
Wow this is the perfect thread for this

Ok im about 6'0 or 6'1 age almost 16, and I play reciever

My weight is about 160, and I want to gain about 30 pounds of muscle mostly in my upper body.

What would I do? or take? NO STEROIDS :lol:

I learnt the expensive way when I was 16 that you really don't need supplements at that age. Your body will grow naturally. Don't even really bother until you're 18ish if you need them.

As for me, I take Nitron 5, Phosphagen Elite which I cycle and then occassionally I stock up on C3 and Betagen.

But the thing I live off the most are vegetable juices. Give me the energy to go through out the day unharmed and keep me revitalized. Very powerful stuff

ABrownLamp
02-10-2006, 02:42 AM
When I played football and I needed to bulk up I swore by Creatine, I dont care how many theorys are out about it, I was benching 315 at one point and able to do 14 reps at 260. I was squating close to 480 and I was deadlifting god knows what. I bulked up from 182 to an ungodly 218 at one point.

I cannot believe I let myself go the way I did:shakeno:

creatine is the only supplement that works.

tucker
02-10-2006, 02:55 AM
whatever you do dude, dont use steroids......you may not want to now....but perhaps down the road you may be hit with some peer pressure to do so, or someone may tell you that the proper mix of assorted roids do not hurt ya.....but avoid it at all cost....you seem smart enough already to be avoiding that route......i had a friend who used roids and ended up having one of his **** balloon out after several years of taking em...(dont ask how cuz i dont know...i didnt bother asking) ..........also....if u take roids, you may get huge quickly, but once you stop and stop working out for awhile, you turn to fat......if you stop for awhile after lifting naturally, youll still retain much more muscle as opposed to roids...and in my opinion, have the ability to regain your strength much quicker.....................ps..roids shrink your nuts....women want men with big ballssurvey says.........WRONG! except for the nuts part..those do start to shrink after the later weeks, but they come right back...but if done correctly with knowledge behind it, which is where the ignorant users come in, then they are quite safe...but must ALWAYS use a pct...AKA POST CYCLE THERAPY to keep gains..and should be over 21 imho..but creatine is the best supplement to use, b/c its been proven to work...heres a great site for dirt cheap products.. www.bulknutrition.com (http://www.bulknutrition.com)
its the same products as bodybuilding.com, but cheaper imo

GRAPEAPE
02-10-2006, 10:17 AM
If you decide to use creatine, LIFT! if you take the creatine then do nothing you will swell up. Creatine sits in the muscles just waiting for something to fix, if you don't lift you will gain the wrong kind of weight with the stuff. At the height of my lifting I was taking creatine, 100% whey, every amino acid available, Drinking about half a gallon of V8, half gallon of Grape juice, half gallon of water everyday. Along with a 6,200 calorie a day diet, and MRP with every meal. The biggest I ever got was 310 lbs. I am 6'4" 285 now I am in nowhere the shape I was in 7 years ago, and I haven't seen the inside of a gym for at least 2 years. The only Downfall I have read about and think may be true with creatine is that it destroys cartilage in the joints. Over the last 5 years I have had 3 Knee surgerys, 1 shoulder surgery, and constant back problems. I basically lived on the stuff since I was 17 years old up until about 24 so 7 years of hard lifting may be the cause of the joint problems I have also. Since creatine is really only about 13-15 years old no-one really now the long term effects of large amounts of it in your body. It is naturally produced by your boby, but only in small amounts.

GRAPEAPE
02-10-2006, 10:26 AM
Wow this is the perfect thread for this

Ok im about 6'0 or 6'1 age almost 16, and I play reciever

My weight is about 160, and I want to gain about 30 pounds of muscle mostly in my upper body.

What would I do? or take? NO STEROIDS :lol:To be honest You are 16 years old. I would not recomend taking anything for a couple years. I am suffering the effects of being a gym rat and supplementing for years(seeabove post) This is what I recomend for you. With every meal you eat drink a slim fast shake. DO NOT replace the meal with the shake drink it along with the meal. Extra calories, Vitamins, and minerals, will help your body recover faster after working out. A highschool wrestling coach of mine used to say "We are making GO muscles, not SHOW muscles" I agree with him now. You will put on lean muscle mass simply by working out and eating a healthy diet. don't try to push your body along. Beside what good is an impressive bench press to a reciever?

The Confessor
02-10-2006, 10:41 AM
A-22. I dont think I would do anything but stay away from suger. Not the sugars in Fruit and veggies, but the Milky Way and stuff. You are at a point where your body will rebuild after every workout on its own. When you lift, you are actually breaking down the aminos and other acids in the muscle tissue. Creatine (Which was first discovered naturally in Red meats) along with Glutamine helps the body "Recover" after breaking down he muscle. One VERY IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER, when pumping iron, drink water. It helps your blood deliver whatever nutrients (Either natural or otherwise) to the muscles when they need them most.
EXplode is amazing, and is part of the new phosphogen (The brand name phosphgen smells like Maple syrup and tastes like crap BTW) NO (Nitrogen) line of workout enhancements. I do find a huge bump in my pump when drinking some of these. Creatine and NO stuff needs to be cycled. If you want to know more, I would suggest going into the local GNC or equiv (Much better stores than GNC are out there) and reading the backs of some of these.
Just my 2 cents worth
kb

Motion
02-10-2006, 11:07 AM
Makes the veins in your body stick out...im pretty sure it drains the water in your system to make you look more ripped its dumb


creatine is the only supplement that works.

Both couldn't be more wrong.

If you want to add supplements to your diet, a multivitamin, whey protein, and creatine are the basics, can't go wrong with them. 1.5 - 2 grams of protein per body weight pound is the general rule of thumb, but remember Protein from actual foods is better for you than supplemented protein. Make sure you find yourself a solid workout plan, I suggest the MAX-OT plan, and stick with it. Motivation and persistence are the most important things when working out. And don't forget the cardio, even if your trying to bulk up, cardio is still important, I suggest 30-45 minutes of cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, GREAT results.


I use Optimum Nutrition Pro Complex Whey Protein, EAS Phosphagen HP Creatine, and an Optimum Nutrition Multivitamin.

Dubfire
02-10-2006, 11:14 AM
If you decide to use creatine, LIFT! if you take the creatine then do nothing you will swell up. Creatine sits in the muscles just waiting for something to fix, if you don't lift you will gain the wrong kind of weight with the stuff.

Bingo!

The stuff really works but you HAVE to lift and you will more than ever before. For me it was not a long term thing. I started with the GNC stuff then I went to EAS Phosphagen. Took it for no more than a year. Got great results. I would not recommend it though if you're only 16. Just eat like a pig (4 Sirloin steaks a day with a sweet potato) and lift!!

Motion
02-10-2006, 11:18 AM
Just eat like a pig (4 Sirloin steaks a day with a sweet potato) and lift!!

Exactly, being that young you need to focus on bulking up!

Dubfire
02-10-2006, 11:19 AM
Both couldn't be more wrong.

If you want to add supplements to your diet, a multivitamin, whey protein, and creatine are the basics, can't go wrong with them. 1.5 - 2 grams of protein per body weight pound is the general rule of thumb, but remember Protein from actual foods is better for you that supplemented protein. Make sure you find yourself a solid workout plan, I suggest the MAX-OT plan, and stick with it. Motivation and persistence are the most important things when working out. And don't forget the cardio, even if your trying to bulk up, cardio is still important, I suggest 30-45 minutes of cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, GREAT results.


I use Optimum Nutrition Pro Complex Whey Protein, EAS Phosphagen HP Creatine, and an Optimum Nutrition Multivitamin.


ON Whey Protein is indeed some good stuff as is the Phosphagen.

Could not agree more with that last statement. Follow that workout with a hearty and healthy breakfast. I usually take a Myoplex with Skim milk or some unsweetened oatmeal and fruit. My body burns calories all day. Even as I sit here typing this.

SCall13
02-10-2006, 11:22 AM
I agree. All I'm taking right now is a multi-vitamin from GNC and a whey protein after my workouts.

6 years ago Creatine was the "in" thing. Everyone was taking it. I was 21 at the time and it helped increase my strength tremendously and upper body size. I'm not a tall guy so I'm not looking to add size at all. The days of me going into the gym and trying to outbench my buddies are over. Now I just want to feel healthy.


I hear ya. I used to go to the gym and let that ehgo thing get in the way. I got way bigger than I wanted to. I stopped working out for a while and started getting a little chunky. I had to fight that off, and let me tell, it's tough. Now I lift light weight - high reps to get toned and less bulky. Sometimes it's tough not to get caught up in the ego trip of wanting to prove to guys around me that I can bench, curl, or squat more. But I'd rather them think whatever they like than to allow myself to get too big again.

Dubfire
02-10-2006, 11:27 AM
Appreciate all the feedback fellas!! :up:

Exactly why I started this thread.

Motion
02-10-2006, 11:28 AM
Sometimes it's tough not to get caught up in the ego trip of wanting to prove to guys around me that I can bench, curl, or squat more. But I'd rather them think whatever they like than to allow myself to get too big again.

Very important. Thats why I like to workout at home. :D

ABrownLamp
02-10-2006, 11:40 AM
Both couldn't be more wrong.

If you want to add supplements to your diet, a multivitamin, whey protein, and creatine are the basics, can't go wrong with them. 1.5 - 2 grams of protein per body weight pound is the general rule of thumb, but remember Protein from actual foods is better for you than supplemented protein. Make sure you find yourself a solid workout plan, I suggest the MAX-OT plan, and stick with it. Motivation and persistence are the most important things when working out. And don't forget the cardio, even if your trying to bulk up, cardio is still important, I suggest 30-45 minutes of cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, GREAT results.


I use Optimum Nutrition Pro Complex Whey Protein, EAS Phosphagen HP Creatine, and an Optimum Nutrition Multivitamin.
nah. those shakes are worthless. I don't know one person that said, because of the whey protein shakes I gained 7 pounds and my bench went up 20. It certainly did nothing for me. Creatine has quick and visual results.

GRAPEAPE
02-10-2006, 12:02 PM
nah. those shakes are worthless. I don't know one person that said, because of the whey protein shakes I gained 7 pounds and my bench went up 20. It certainly did nothing for me. Creatine has quick and visual results.The proetein is essential in building lean muscle. If your diet doesn'tconsist of alot of protein you won't see any big gains. The creatine will fix the muscle fiber tears but won't buiild new fibers without protein.

Motion
02-10-2006, 12:08 PM
nah. those shakes are worthless. I don't know one person that said, because of the whey protein shakes I gained 7 pounds and my bench went up 20. It certainly did nothing for me. Creatine has quick and visual results.

:confused: Protein is what builds muscle, period. Protein is a must, its a fact. It is by no means "worthless".

Dubfire
02-10-2006, 12:29 PM
:confused: Protein is what builds muscle, period. Protein is a must, its a fact. It is by no means "worthless".

:yeahthat:

Motion
02-10-2006, 12:42 PM
Nutrition

Protein is an important macronutrient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macronutrient) to the human diet, supplying the body's needs for nitrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen) and amino acids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid), the building blocks of proteins. Mammals cannot synthesise all 20 amino acids, so protein from the diet is necessary for life and the amino acids that cannot be synthesised by the body are known as essential amino acids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid). The exact amount of dietary protein needed to satisfy these requirements, known as an RDA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recommended_Dietary_Allowance) may vary widely depending on age, sex, level of physical activity, and medical condition.
Protein deficiency can lead to symptoms such as fatigue, insulin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin) resistance, hair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair) loss, loss of hair pigment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigment), loss of muscle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle) mass, low body temperature, hormonal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormones) irregularities, as well as loss of skin elsaticity sport_nutrition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein#endnote_). Severe protein deficiency, encountered only in times of famine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine), is fatal, due to the lack of material for the body to facilitate as energy.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources)]

Protein is essential.

ABrownLamp
02-10-2006, 12:51 PM
The proetein is essential in building lean muscle. If your diet doesn'tconsist of alot of protein you won't see any big gains. The creatine will fix the muscle fiber tears but won't buiild new fibers without protein.

I don't know one person who said that once they started eating whey their bodies got bigger and they put up more weight.

ABrownLamp
02-10-2006, 12:52 PM
Protein is essential.

No kidding. But you wont see any noticeable increase in muscle size or strength because of the whey protein shakes. They are worthless.

Motion
02-10-2006, 01:01 PM
I don't know one person who said that once they started eating whey their bodies got bigger and they put up more weight.


No kidding. But you wont see any noticeable increase in muscle size or strength because of the whey protein shakes. They are worthless.

I'm not sure who your talking to but it is a known fact that you need protein to build and maintain muscle mass. I know first hand and have seen first hand that whey protein adds significant bulk. Are you trying to tell me that bodybuilders don't drink protein shakes? They are not worthless by any means.

ABrownLamp
02-10-2006, 01:13 PM
I'm not sure who your talking to but it is a known fact that you need protein to build and maintain muscle mass. I know first hand and have seen first hand that whey protein adds significant bulk. Are you trying to tell me that bodybuilders don't drink protein shakes? They are not worthless by any means.
I'm talking to the people I quoted in my posts.

It is a known fact that you need all kinds of vitamins and minerals in your body. If we use that logic, there is no end to the amount of essential supplements one should take. The bodybuliders take all kinds of crap. I am referring to your avg college 18-22 year old who doesnt have time or money for every vitamin under the sun. A person who eats 2-3 meals per day and works out 3-4 times per week.

Under those conditions, yes, whey protein shakes are worthless. You will not see any noticeable gains. Creatine is the only supplement I have ever used that you could say, once I took creatine, I saw changes. I've never heard one person say that about those shakes.

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 01:26 PM
Bottom line: nothing is completely worthless, and nothing is completely effective. You have to use a combination of approaches to successfully build muscle.

First, make sure you eat about 50% of your calories from protein, 30% from carbs and 20% from good fats (olive/peanut/grapeseed/flaxseed/ oils) as much as possible. Stick as closely as you can to those proportions and you'll not only feed your muscles, but you'll fell good and have plenty of energy. Key is balanced proportions.

Second, don't eat huge meals; instead eat 5-7 smaller meals (including snacks) a day. That will give your body time to optimize each meal, in other words use each meal in the most efficient manner. You eat huge meals, and no matter what you eat your body will be in crisis mode to process all that food and you will miss out on as much as half the nutrients you take in, and the great majority of what you do absorb will be stored as fat.

Third, keep the big picture in mind; look at diet as a daily unit rather than at each meal as an end. You can't practically eat the same exact proportions of nutrients at every meal. But if you stick close to the formula and look at the day as a whole, you might have less of one factor in one meal but more in another.

You shouldn't be eating more than 16 ounces protein in a 5-meal plan, less if you eat 6 or 7; again however, as long as you stick close to the formula, keep the big picture in mind and adjust your thinking so that you're balancing your nutrients on a per-day basis rather than a per-meal basis.

Fourth; yeah, creatine is great, and it really is a very effective supplement for building muscle, plus I'm not aware of any harmful side-effects unless you go insane and consume much more than recommended. Stick close to the amounts on the package instructions and you'll be OK. Also, be sure to maximize your intake of anti-oxidants (A, C, E, Co-Q10, DHEA, Lycopene, Selenium).

L-Carnitine is a great anti-oxidant as well, plus it benefits your heart - and the more your heart's work is optimized, the more oxygen it pumps to your muscles and the more growth you'll get there. Alpha Lipoic Acid is also a good all-around anti-oxidant and it particularly benefits your skin - big muscles look better under healthy skin. A multi-vitamin is benefial too, to make sure you're getting everything you need.

Fifth, the workouts. Work with the largest amount of weight with which you can do 6-8 reps; then do sets of those reps until you work the muscle to failure - that means that you literally fail your last rep while giving it all you've got. That's particularly important with Creatine, you must work the muscle group to absolute exhaustion, or you're wasting your money on the stuff. When you get to where you're doing 3 sets of 8 reps easily with one amount of weight, add more weight and start over.

And work specific muscle groups separately, except for core. Group the muscle groups however you want, but I usually do opposite parts together; arms-chest/upper legs, Shoulders/lower legs, back/core...however you do it is fine, but a very important thing to remember is that form is 100% more important than the amount of weight that you lift. Use proper form in all exercises to get the right benefits, don't cheat by using bad form because you'll just cheat yourself. That's important to remember especially toward the end of your workout, when you're close to exhaustion. lower the amount of weight if you have to, but keep good form. That's also important to keep from hurting yourself.

Sixth, the part that most people forget and shortchange themselves in: rest. When you work those muscles to exhaustion, what you actually doing is damaging them on a microscopic level, to make them repair themselves and (most importantly) making your body put more tissue there to gurad against future damage. That's how building muscle works, you fool your body into making more muscle tissue wherever it repairs to make it stronger and able to handle that amount of stress in the future; the way you continue to grow the muscles is to keep damaging them in that way by increasing the amount of weight you work with, building more/stronger tissue each time.

So it's vital that when you're finished working a muscle group to exhaustion, you rest that muscle group for 36-48 hours, even 72 hours depending on your metabolism. That means don't give in to the temptation of doing arms, for instance, on consecutive days, because all you'll be doing is actually inhibiting muscle growth by doing that. Because you didn't give you body the recovery time it needed to repair those micro-tears and build more tissue in to cause growth and make you stronger. If you don't rest properly you'll end up looking like a marathon runner rather than a bodybuilder.

As to frequency of workouts, find a rhythm that's comfortable for you. Remember, it's about working the muscle groups to exhaustion, not working your self into it. I find 3 days on, 1 off to be a good schedule for me; that ensures that I get all the muscle groups once in that cycle, but don't hit any one group too soon. And the day of rest ensures that I'm fresh and ready to go hard on that 5th day to start the cycle over.

Lastly, don't compare yourself to anyone else. Everybody is different, work at your own pace. Challenge yourself, but be smart about it.

:wink:

NJFINSFAN1
02-10-2006, 01:35 PM
I use Barley, Wheat and Hop's with water!:njphins:

In fact, I may use one right now!:wink:

Motion
02-10-2006, 01:38 PM
Bottom line: nothing is completely worthless, and nothing is completely effective. You have to use a combination of approaches to successfully build muscle.

First, make sure you eat about 50% of your calories from protein, 30% from carbs and 20% from good fats (olive/peanut/grapeseed/flaxseed/ oils) as much as possible. Stick as closely as you can to those proportions and you'll not only feed your muscles, but you'll fell good and have plenty of energy. Key is balanced proportions.

Second, don't eat huge meals; instead eat 5-7 smaller meals (including snacks) a day. That will give your body time to optimize each meal, in other words use each meal in the most efficient manner. You eat huge meals, and no matter what you eat your body will be in crisis mode to process all that food and you will miss out on as much as half the nutrients you take in, and the great majority of what you do absorb will be stored as fat.

Third, keep the big picture in mind; look at diet as a daily unit rather than at each meal as an end. You can't practically eat the same exact proportions of nutrients at every meal. But if you stick close to the formula and look at the day as a whole, you might have less of one factor in one meal but more in another.

You shouldn't be eating more than 16 ounces protein in a 5-meal plan, less if you eat 6 or 7; again however, as long as you stick close to the formula, keep the big picture in mind and adjust your thinking so that you're balancing your nutrients on a per-day basis rather than a per-meal basis.

Fourth; yeah, creatine is great, and it really is a very effective supplement for building muscle, plus I'm not aware of any harmful side-effects unless you go insane and consume much more than recommended. Stick close to the amounts on the package instructions and you'll be OK. Also, be sure to maximize your intake of anti-oxidants (A, C, E, Co-Q10, DHEA, Lycopene, Selenium).

L-Carnitine is a great anti-oxidant as well, plus it benefits your heart - and the more your heart's work is optimized, the more oxygen it pumps to your muscles and the more growth you'll get there. Alpha Lipoic Acid is also a good all-around anti-oxidant and it particularly benefits your skin - big muscles look better under healthy skin. A multi-vitamin is benefial too, to make sure you're getting everything you need.

Fifth, the workouts. Work with the largest amount of weight with which you can do 6-8 reps; then do sets of those reps until you work the muscle to failure - that means that you literally fail your last rep while giving it all you've got. That's particularly important with Creatine, you must work the muscle group to absolute exhaustion, or you're wasting your money on the stuff. When you get to where you're doing 3 sets of 8 reps easily with one amount of weight, add more weight and start over.

And work specific muscle groups separately, except for core. Group the muscle groups however you want, but I usually do opposite parts together; arms-chest/upper legs, Shoulders/lower legs, back/core...however you do it is fine, but a very important thing to remember is that form is 100% more important than the amount of weight that you lift. Use proper form in all exercises to get the right benefits, don't cheat by using bad form because you'll just cheat yourself. That's important to remember especially toward the end of your workout, when you're close to exhaustion. lower the amount of weight if you have to, but keep good form. That's also important to keep from hurting yourself.

Sixth, the part that most people forget and shortchange themselves in: rest. When you work those muscles to exhaustion, what you actually doing is damaging them on a microscopic level, to make them repair themselves and (most importantly) making your body put more tissue there to gurad against future damage. That's how building muscle works, you fool your body into making more muscle tissue wherever it repairs to make it stronger and able to handle that amount of stress in the future; the way you continue to grow the muscles is to keep damaging them in that way by increasing the amount of weight you work with, building more/stronger tissue each time.

So it's vital that when you're finished working a muscle group to exhaustion, you rest that muscle group for 36-48 hours, even 72 hours depending on your metabolism. That means don't give in to the temptation of doing arms, for instance, on consecutive days, because all you'll be doing is actually inhibiting muscle growth by doing that. Because you didn't give you body the recovery time it needed to repair those micro-tears and build more tissue in to cause growth and make you stronger. If you don't rest properly you'll end up looking like a marathon runner rather than a bodybuilder.

As to frequency of workouts, find a rhythm that's comfortable for you. Remember, it's about working the muscle groups to exhaustion, not working your self into it. I find 3 days on, 1 off to be a good schedule for me; that ensures that I get all the muscle groups once in that cycle, but don't hit any one group too soon. And the day of rest ensures that I'm fresh and ready to go hard on that 5th day to start the cycle over.

Lastly, don't compare yourself to anyone else. Everybody is different, work at your own pace. Challenge yourself, but be smart about it.

:wink:

Great write up.

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 01:39 PM
I use Barley, Wheat and Hop's with water!:njphins:

In fact, I may use one right now!:wink:

:njphins:

:sidelol: ...but whether you believe it or not, that can be a healthy part of a balanced diet.

When I was working out hard and running every day, I would allow myself either 2 beers or one dessert at dinner or lunch, and adjust what I ordered according to that so I wouldn't eat too many carbs. But buddy, when you brew your own you're sorely tempted to exceed those limits :wink:

:tongue:

Motion
02-10-2006, 01:42 PM
I'm talking to the people I quoted in my posts.

It is a known fact that you need all kinds of vitamins and minerals in your body. If we use that logic, there is no end to the amount of essential supplements one should take. The bodybuliders take all kinds of crap. I am referring to your avg college 18-22 year old who doesnt have time or money for every vitamin under the sun. A person who eats 2-3 meals per day and works out 3-4 times per week.

Under those conditions, yes, whey protein shakes are worthless. You will not see any noticeable gains. Creatine is the only supplement I have ever used that you could say, once I took creatine, I saw changes. I've never heard one person say that about those shakes.

My main point was that whey protein is far from worthless. I'm well aware of the need for numerous vitamins and minerals, protein included. As I said in my earlier post creatine, protein, and a multivitamin are the basics. As for the example you gave, 2-3 meals/day 3-4/workouts a week type person would actually greatly benefit from a protein supplement.

ABrownLamp
02-10-2006, 01:42 PM
Bottom line: nothing is completely worthless, and nothing is completely effective. You have to use a combination of approaches to successfully build muscle.

First, make sure you eat about 50% of your calories from protein, 30% from carbs and 20% from good fats (olive/peanut/grapeseed/flaxseed/ oils) as much as possible. Stick as closely as you can to those proportions and you'll not only feed your muscles, but you'll fell good and have plenty of energy. Key is balanced proportions.

Second, don't eat huge meals; instead eat 5-7 smaller meals (including snacks) a day. That will give your body time to optimize each meal, in other words use each meal in the most efficient manner. You eat huge meals, and no matter what you eat your body will be in crisis mode to process all that food and you will miss out on as much as half the nutrients you take in, and the great majority of what you do absorb will be stored as fat.

Third, keep the big picture in mind; look at diet as a daily unit rather than at each meal as an end. You can't practically eat the same exact proportions of nutrients at every meal. But if you stick close to the formula and look at the day as a whole, you might have less of one factor in one meal but more in another.

You shouldn't be eating more than 16 ounces protein in a 5-meal plan, less if you eat 6 or 7; again however, as long as you stick close to the formula, keep the big picture in mind and adjust your thinking so that you're balancing your nutrients on a per-day basis rather than a per-meal basis.

Fourth; yeah, creatine is great, and it really is a very effective supplement for building muscle, plus I'm not aware of any harmful side-effects unless you go insane and consume much more than recommended. Stick close to the amounts on the package instructions and you'll be OK. Also, be sure to maximize your intake of anti-oxidants (A, C, E, Co-Q10, DHEA, Lycopene, Selenium).

L-Carnitine is a great anti-oxidant as well, plus it benefits your heart - and the more your heart's work is optimized, the more oxygen it pumps to your muscles and the more growth you'll get there. Alpha Lipoic Acid is also a good all-around anti-oxidant and it particularly benefits your skin - big muscles look better under healthy skin. A multi-vitamin is benefial too, to make sure you're getting everything you need.

Fifth, the workouts. Work with the largest amount of weight with which you can do 6-8 reps; then do sets of those reps until you work the muscle to failure - that means that you literally fail your last rep while giving it all you've got. That's particularly important with Creatine, you must work the muscle group to absolute exhaustion, or you're wasting your money on the stuff. When you get to where you're doing 3 sets of 8 reps easily with one amount of weight, add more weight and start over.

And work specific muscle groups separately, except for core. Group the muscle groups however you want, but I usually do opposite parts together; arms-chest/upper legs, Shoulders/lower legs, back/core...however you do it is fine, but a very important thing to remember is that form is 100% more important than the amount of weight that you lift. Use proper form in all exercises to get the right benefits, don't cheat by using bad form because you'll just cheat yourself. That's important to remember especially toward the end of your workout, when you're close to exhaustion. lower the amount of weight if you have to, but keep good form. That's also important to keep from hurting yourself.

Sixth, the part that most people forget and shortchange themselves in: rest. When you work those muscles to exhaustion, what you actually doing is damaging them on a microscopic level, to make them repair themselves and (most importantly) making your body put more tissue there to gurad against future damage. That's how building muscle works, you fool your body into making more muscle tissue wherever it repairs to make it stronger and able to handle that amount of stress in the future; the way you continue to grow the muscles is to keep damaging them in that way by increasing the amount of weight you work with, building more/stronger tissue each time.

So it's vital that when you're finished working a muscle group to exhaustion, you rest that muscle group for 36-48 hours, even 72 hours depending on your metabolism. That means don't give in to the temptation of doing arms, for instance, on consecutive days, because all you'll be doing is actually inhibiting muscle growth by doing that. Because you didn't give you body the recovery time it needed to repair those micro-tears and build more tissue in to cause growth and make you stronger. If you don't rest properly you'll end up looking like a marathon runner rather than a bodybuilder.

As to frequency of workouts, find a rhythm that's comfortable for you. Remember, it's about working the muscle groups to exhaustion, not working your self into it. I find 3 days on, 1 off to be a good schedule for me; that ensures that I get all the muscle groups once in that cycle, but don't hit any one group too soon. And the day of rest ensures that I'm fresh and ready to go hard on that 5th day to start the cycle over.

Lastly, don't compare yourself to anyone else. Everybody is different, work at your own pace. Challenge yourself, but be smart about it.

:wink:

Agreed. Another reason not to eat a few large meanls per day is because your body can only synthesize a certain amount as fuel per hour, and you will poop the rest out. 32g of protein per hour is all your body can absorb. I've seen proetin shakes announce that theirs has 44 grams per serving. WTF is the point?

Also, I got this coupon for buy one supplement get another supp free from GNC so I got creatine and something really expensive that the guy told me is pretty effective called L-Glutamate. I have no idea what this stuff is. Do you?

Motion
02-10-2006, 01:44 PM
L-Glutamate. I have no idea what this stuff is. Do you?

Sounds like a type of Glutamine, which helps muscle tissue heal faster and keeps you body from becoming catabolic(muscle burning) during cardio.

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 01:51 PM
Agreed. Another reason not to eat a few large meanls per day is because your body can only synthesize a certain amount as fuel per hour, and you will poop the rest out. 32g of protein per hour is all your body can absorb. I've seen proetin shakes announce that theirs has 44 grams per serving. WTF is the point?

Also, I got this coupon for buy one supplement get another supp free from GNC so I got creatine and something really expensive that the guy told me is pretty effective called L-Glutamate. I have no idea what this stuff is. Do you?

I wasn't familiar with that, but I looked it up and here's a blurb from one manufacturer:

Pure L-Glutamine Powder - Precision Engineered™
• Popular with Bodybuilders
• Highly Concentrated in Muscle*
• Exercise & Post-Exercise Support*

Pure L-Glutamine powder is a popular supplement with bodybuilders and athletes as part of their hardcore training regimen. Glutamine is a truly unique amino acid, as it is the most abundant amino acid in blood and skeletal muscle. Intense exercise promotes glutamine formation and release from muscle.*


:njphins: :lol: My question would be, if it already is the most abundant amino acid in the body, why consume more of it? I'd be open to hearing more about it, but offhand I'd reject it as being useful; if it comes with something else you do wnat though, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt you. I just wouldn't pay to have it.

GreenMonster
02-10-2006, 01:54 PM
Bottom line: nothing is completely worthless, and nothing is completely effective. You have to use a combination of approaches to successfully build muscle.

First, make sure you eat about 50% of your calories from protein, 30% from carbs and 20% from good fats (olive/peanut/grapeseed/flaxseed/ oils) as much as possible. Stick as closely as you can to those proportions and you'll not only feed your muscles, but you'll fell good and have plenty of energy. Key is balanced proportions.

Second, don't eat huge meals; instead eat 5-7 smaller meals (including snacks) a day. That will give your body time to optimize each meal, in other words use each meal in the most efficient manner. You eat huge meals, and no matter what you eat your body will be in crisis mode to process all that food and you will miss out on as much as half the nutrients you take in, and the great majority of what you do absorb will be stored as fat.

Third, keep the big picture in mind; look at diet as a daily unit rather than at each meal as an end. You can't practically eat the same exact proportions of nutrients at every meal. But if you stick close to the formula and look at the day as a whole, you might have less of one factor in one meal but more in another.

You shouldn't be eating more than 16 ounces protein in a 5-meal plan, less if you eat 6 or 7; again however, as long as you stick close to the formula, keep the big picture in mind and adjust your thinking so that you're balancing your nutrients on a per-day basis rather than a per-meal basis.

Fourth; yeah, creatine is great, and it really is a very effective supplement for building muscle, plus I'm not aware of any harmful side-effects unless you go insane and consume much more than recommended. Stick close to the amounts on the package instructions and you'll be OK. Also, be sure to maximize your intake of anti-oxidants (A, C, E, Co-Q10, DHEA, Lycopene, Selenium).

L-Carnitine is a great anti-oxidant as well, plus it benefits your heart - and the more your heart's work is optimized, the more oxygen it pumps to your muscles and the more growth you'll get there. Alpha Lipoic Acid is also a good all-around anti-oxidant and it particularly benefits your skin - big muscles look better under healthy skin. A multi-vitamin is benefial too, to make sure you're getting everything you need.

Fifth, the workouts. Work with the largest amount of weight with which you can do 6-8 reps; then do sets of those reps until you work the muscle to failure - that means that you literally fail your last rep while giving it all you've got. That's particularly important with Creatine, you must work the muscle group to absolute exhaustion, or you're wasting your money on the stuff. When you get to where you're doing 3 sets of 8 reps easily with one amount of weight, add more weight and start over.

And work specific muscle groups separately, except for core. Group the muscle groups however you want, but I usually do opposite parts together; arms-chest/upper legs, Shoulders/lower legs, back/core...however you do it is fine, but a very important thing to remember is that form is 100% more important than the amount of weight that you lift. Use proper form in all exercises to get the right benefits, don't cheat by using bad form because you'll just cheat yourself. That's important to remember especially toward the end of your workout, when you're close to exhaustion. lower the amount of weight if you have to, but keep good form. That's also important to keep from hurting yourself.

Sixth, the part that most people forget and shortchange themselves in: rest. When you work those muscles to exhaustion, what you actually doing is damaging them on a microscopic level, to make them repair themselves and (most importantly) making your body put more tissue there to gurad against future damage. That's how building muscle works, you fool your body into making more muscle tissue wherever it repairs to make it stronger and able to handle that amount of stress in the future; the way you continue to grow the muscles is to keep damaging them in that way by increasing the amount of weight you work with, building more/stronger tissue each time.

So it's vital that when you're finished working a muscle group to exhaustion, you rest that muscle group for 36-48 hours, even 72 hours depending on your metabolism. That means don't give in to the temptation of doing arms, for instance, on consecutive days, because all you'll be doing is actually inhibiting muscle growth by doing that. Because you didn't give you body the recovery time it needed to repair those micro-tears and build more tissue in to cause growth and make you stronger. If you don't rest properly you'll end up looking like a marathon runner rather than a bodybuilder.

As to frequency of workouts, find a rhythm that's comfortable for you. Remember, it's about working the muscle groups to exhaustion, not working your self into it. I find 3 days on, 1 off to be a good schedule for me; that ensures that I get all the muscle groups once in that cycle, but don't hit any one group too soon. And the day of rest ensures that I'm fresh and ready to go hard on that 5th day to start the cycle over.

Lastly, don't compare yourself to anyone else. Everybody is different, work at your own pace. Challenge yourself, but be smart about it.

:wink:

Wow this post was great.. Thanx for telling me exactly what I need to know to get in shape.. Now can you motivate me, I am in decent shape but would like to be in great shape..

Motion
02-10-2006, 01:58 PM
:njphins: :lol: My question would be, if it already is the most abundant amino acid in the body, why consume more of it? I'd be open to hearing more about it, but offhand I'd reject it as being useful; if it comes with something else you do wnat though, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt you. I just wouldn't pay to have it.

After reading that great write up you posted, I must say I'm amazed you've never heard of Glutamine before. Its very popular, although as with anything there are two sides, some people think its worthless and some people swear by it.

tucker
02-10-2006, 01:59 PM
nabocane pretty much summed it up..but glutamine is great for recovery along with boosting your immune system...i used to take up to 10 grams a day for best reseults...it really helps with recovery.. and please pple, dont go to gnc, they will rip you off, sell you their products that they get the highest commission of off and they for the most part have no clue what they are talking about..i know, b/c i used to work at one back in the day...

also 60% of your muscle tissue is made up of Glutamine. Strenuous exercise depletes Glutamine stores at a faster rate than they can be replenished. 70% of the regular Glutamine powder you consume is utilized by the stomach and the intestines, leaving only 30% available to feed muscle tissue...thats why its smart to take it upon wakening, right after lifting and before bed time

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 02:12 PM
Wow this post was great.. Thanx for telling me exactly what I need to know to get in shape.. Now can you motivate me, I am in decent shape but would like to be in great shape..

:sidelol: Yeah, as long as you motivate me!

I'm still recovering from bi-lateral knee replacements and just getting back into working out; I'm still in the stage where if I go too far too fast, I'm crippled for days...and that's no good. Slow and steady.

Motion
02-10-2006, 02:14 PM
dont go to gnc, they will rip you off

Amen

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 02:16 PM
After reading that great write up you posted, I must say I'm amazed you've never heard of Glutamine before. Its very popular, although as with anything there are two sides, some people think its worthless and some people swear by it.

See, I'm more old-school and tend to stick with the tried-and-true until I hear something good about a supplement; when Creatine came out in the 90's I was one of the last in my crew to use it, first because I was wary of it being a harmful steroid in disguise, second because in 30+ years of working out I've seen a thousand "miracle" products come and go - and a lot of money wasted on them. But boy, was I ever glad when I did start to use it!

Having said that though, I'm glad that you have a positive report on L-Glutamine because I just hadn't paid much attention to it. Thanks for that!

edit: BTW, here's the best and cheapest source for a lot of these products:
http://www.vitaminworld.com/index.asp?xs=2DAA1BC0DC9447B7B884336788DE7BFF

...and yeah, GNC is a huge rip-off.

Motion
02-10-2006, 02:26 PM
My two fav supplement sources:

www.allsportsnutrition.com (http://www.allsportsnutrition.com)

www.DPSnutrition.net

Agent51
02-10-2006, 02:30 PM
:lifter:

For all you gym rats that take them, which ones do you swear by?

Either for bulking up or slimming down?:cooldude:

Currently I am on Mega Men Sport from GNC, Chromium Picolinate, and Nitrix and No-Xplode by BSN and I swear by those. The great thing about Nitrix and No-Xplode is they are natural nitric oxide and don't contain creatine, so they not only help you build muscle but they are NCAA legal. Mega Men is a GREAT multivitamin/mineral suppliment and the Sport version is more tailored to athletes who workout harder than the average person. Chromium Picolinate helps burn fat and build muscle.

Here are some links to each:

Mega Men Sport
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133773&cp&change_search=products&keywords=mega+men+sport&y=0&searchId=10521487263&x=0&parentPage=search

Nitrix
http://www.bsnonline.net/store/nitrix.php

No-Xplode
http://www.bsnonline.net/store/noxplode.php

Chromium Picolinate
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/chrompic.html

For an even better Nitric Oxide suppliment try NO2 from GNC
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133512&cp&change_search=products&keywords=no2&y=0&searchId=10521493893&x=0&parentPage=search
it's more expensive than Nitrix (prolly in part because GNC sells it, lol) but more powerful, although I do intense training for football season and Nitrix works great for me.

BTW, a cheap vitamin source I use all the time is www.cheapvitamins.com (http://www.cheapvitamins.com)

The Confessor
02-10-2006, 02:37 PM
See, I'm more old-school and tend to stick with the tried-and-true until I hear something good about a supplement; when Creatine came out in the 90's I was one of the last in my crew to use it, first because I was wary of it being a harmful steroid in disguise, second because in 30+ years of working out I've seen a thousand "miracle" products come and go - and a lot of money wasted on them. But boy, was I ever glad when I did start to use it!

Having said that though, I'm glad that you have a positive report on L-Glutamine because I just hadn't paid much attention to it. Thanks for that!

edit: BTW, here's the best and cheapest source for a lot of these products:
http://www.vitaminworld.com/index.asp?xs=2DAA1BC0DC9447B7B884336788DE7BFF

...and yeah, GNC is a huge rip-off.

I'm old school as well Nabo. I started including Glutamine about 1-1/2 years ago. Nice recovery. As with anything, when you take it and how much is important. The old saying, listen to your body and know how it reacts applies here. It does naturally occur in the body (Just like Creatine does in Red meat), and I make sure I use it after a "Heavy" day.
Also, we have Vitamin Worlds here in Tucson. They absolutely blow GNC away.

Dubfire
02-10-2006, 02:39 PM
I use Barley, Wheat and Hop's with water!:njphins:

In fact, I may use one right now!:wink:

:sidelol:

FLMAO!!!

Motion
02-10-2006, 02:40 PM
Nitrix
http://www.bsnonline.net/store/nitrix.php

No-Xplode
http://www.bsnonline.net/store/noxplode.php


:eek: $$$$$$:eek:

Wow, how do you afford taking that stuff regularly???

Dubfire
02-10-2006, 02:41 PM
Bottom line: nothing is completely worthless, and nothing is completely effective. You have to use a combination of approaches to successfully build muscle.

First, make sure you eat about 50% of your calories from protein, 30% from carbs and 20% from good fats (olive/peanut/grapeseed/flaxseed/ oils) as much as possible. Stick as closely as you can to those proportions and you'll not only feed your muscles, but you'll fell good and have plenty of energy. Key is balanced proportions.

Second, don't eat huge meals; instead eat 5-7 smaller meals (including snacks) a day. That will give your body time to optimize each meal, in other words use each meal in the most efficient manner. You eat huge meals, and no matter what you eat your body will be in crisis mode to process all that food and you will miss out on as much as half the nutrients you take in, and the great majority of what you do absorb will be stored as fat.

Third, keep the big picture in mind; look at diet as a daily unit rather than at each meal as an end. You can't practically eat the same exact proportions of nutrients at every meal. But if you stick close to the formula and look at the day as a whole, you might have less of one factor in one meal but more in another.

You shouldn't be eating more than 16 ounces protein in a 5-meal plan, less if you eat 6 or 7; again however, as long as you stick close to the formula, keep the big picture in mind and adjust your thinking so that you're balancing your nutrients on a per-day basis rather than a per-meal basis.

Fourth; yeah, creatine is great, and it really is a very effective supplement for building muscle, plus I'm not aware of any harmful side-effects unless you go insane and consume much more than recommended. Stick close to the amounts on the package instructions and you'll be OK. Also, be sure to maximize your intake of anti-oxidants (A, C, E, Co-Q10, DHEA, Lycopene, Selenium).

L-Carnitine is a great anti-oxidant as well, plus it benefits your heart - and the more your heart's work is optimized, the more oxygen it pumps to your muscles and the more growth you'll get there. Alpha Lipoic Acid is also a good all-around anti-oxidant and it particularly benefits your skin - big muscles look better under healthy skin. A multi-vitamin is benefial too, to make sure you're getting everything you need.

Fifth, the workouts. Work with the largest amount of weight with which you can do 6-8 reps; then do sets of those reps until you work the muscle to failure - that means that you literally fail your last rep while giving it all you've got. That's particularly important with Creatine, you must work the muscle group to absolute exhaustion, or you're wasting your money on the stuff. When you get to where you're doing 3 sets of 8 reps easily with one amount of weight, add more weight and start over.

And work specific muscle groups separately, except for core. Group the muscle groups however you want, but I usually do opposite parts together; arms-chest/upper legs, Shoulders/lower legs, back/core...however you do it is fine, but a very important thing to remember is that form is 100% more important than the amount of weight that you lift. Use proper form in all exercises to get the right benefits, don't cheat by using bad form because you'll just cheat yourself. That's important to remember especially toward the end of your workout, when you're close to exhaustion. lower the amount of weight if you have to, but keep good form. That's also important to keep from hurting yourself.

Sixth, the part that most people forget and shortchange themselves in: rest. When you work those muscles to exhaustion, what you actually doing is damaging them on a microscopic level, to make them repair themselves and (most importantly) making your body put more tissue there to gurad against future damage. That's how building muscle works, you fool your body into making more muscle tissue wherever it repairs to make it stronger and able to handle that amount of stress in the future; the way you continue to grow the muscles is to keep damaging them in that way by increasing the amount of weight you work with, building more/stronger tissue each time.

So it's vital that when you're finished working a muscle group to exhaustion, you rest that muscle group for 36-48 hours, even 72 hours depending on your metabolism. That means don't give in to the temptation of doing arms, for instance, on consecutive days, because all you'll be doing is actually inhibiting muscle growth by doing that. Because you didn't give you body the recovery time it needed to repair those micro-tears and build more tissue in to cause growth and make you stronger. If you don't rest properly you'll end up looking like a marathon runner rather than a bodybuilder.

As to frequency of workouts, find a rhythm that's comfortable for you. Remember, it's about working the muscle groups to exhaustion, not working your self into it. I find 3 days on, 1 off to be a good schedule for me; that ensures that I get all the muscle groups once in that cycle, but don't hit any one group too soon. And the day of rest ensures that I'm fresh and ready to go hard on that 5th day to start the cycle over.

Lastly, don't compare yourself to anyone else. Everybody is different, work at your own pace. Challenge yourself, but be smart about it.

:wink:

Great write up as always!!

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 02:44 PM
I'm old school as well Nabo. I started including Glutamine about 1-1/2 years ago. Nice recovery. As with anything, when you take it and how much is important. The old saying, listen to your body and know how it reacts applies here. It does naturally occur in the body (Just like Creatine does in Red meat), and I make sure I use it after a "Heavy" day.
Also, we have Vitamin Worlds here in Tucson. They absolutely blow GNC away.

Cool, I'll check that out. I have a Vitamin World near where I work.

One thing I do like about VW is you can go on their site and see the labels of most of their products, and most importantly the ingredients.

It's as vitally important to me to avoid certain substances as it is to get the ones I do want; Nutrasweet or aspartame sweetener is one, and a lot of these sports supplements are packed with that poison. It'll give you headaches, and if you consume enough of it it'll even cause migraines and epileptic-type seizures. Not in everyone, but...I don't want that **** near me. Anything that the human body metabolyzes into formaldehyde is something I don't want to be eating.

I look for stuff made with sucralose, or Splenda.

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 02:47 PM
Currently I am on Mega Men Sport from GNC, Chromium Picolinate, and Nitrix and No-Xplode by BSN and I swear by those. The great thing about Nitrix and No-Xplode is they are natural nitric oxide and don't contain creatine, so they not only help you build muscle but they are NCAA legal. Mega Men is a GREAT multivitamin/mineral suppliment and the Sport version is more tailored to athletes who workout harder than the average person. Chromium Picolinate helps burn fat and build muscle.

Here are some links to each:

Mega Men Sport
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133773&cp&change_search=products&keywords=mega+men+sport&y=0&searchId=10521487263&x=0&parentPage=search

Nitrix
http://www.bsnonline.net/store/nitrix.php

No-Xplode
http://www.bsnonline.net/store/noxplode.php

Chromium Picolinate
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/chrompic.html

For an even better Nitric Oxide suppliment try NO2 from GNC
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133512&cp&change_search=products&keywords=no2&y=0&searchId=10521493893&x=0&parentPage=search
it's more expensive than Nitrix (prolly in part because GNC sells it, lol) but more powerful, although I do intense training for football season and Nitrix works great for me.

BTW, a cheap vitamin source I use all the time is www.cheapvitamins.com (http://www.cheapvitamins.com)

Chromium definitely is great. I take some separately with my vitamin pack to make sure I get enough.

Agent51
02-10-2006, 02:53 PM
:eek: $$$$$$:eek:

Wow, how do you afford taking that stuff regularly???

Well I have two REALLY good paying jobs, bartenders in popular nightclubs tend to make VERY good money, add that to the fact that its in Hawai'i which has tons of tourists year round plus a military base for every branch and we are always pretty busy. Plus with Nitric Oxide you are supposed to be on for 3 months then off for a month, and the Nitrix comes in deal where you buy like 3 bottles (each bottle last almost a month) and it's only like $70 instead of like $40 a bottle, and the No-Xplod tubs last FOREVER, so it really looks more expensive than it is. The worst part of it isn't the price but the AMOUNT of pills you swallow in a day, lol. My day for pill consumintion is like this:

3 Nitrix Pills when I wake up, and 1 Chromium Picolinate
2 Mega Men with the first meal of the day
3 more Nitrix pills 6 hours later
3 MORE Nitrix pills 6 hours after that
Glass of No-Xplode (3 scoops in 12 oz of water) 30-60 mins before my workout.
Plus you have to drink CRAZY amounts of water, it's recomended to drink at LEAST 8 12oz glasses a day while on the cycle.

The difficult thing is the timing. The Nitrix and No-Xplode are supposed to be taken on an empty stomach 30-60 minutes before your workout, which is odd because working out on an empty stomach isn't as good as working out with food in your system. It's also hard because the Mega Men need to be taken WITH food. The Chromium Picolinate can be taken whenever. This is all manageable on days off but on days I work it gets hard because I work from 8pm-4am bartending, then I gotta find time to sleep, take the Nitrix every 6hours and time workouts so I'm ready to do em 30-60mins after the Nitrix dose and then time eating so my stomach is pretty much empty by the time I have to Nitrix dose again, lol. It gets even MORE confusing when I'm preparing for a season because I do TWO workouts a day. BTW, the Nitrix and Mega Men pills are HUGE, lol. Like Horse Tranquilizers

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 02:55 PM
My main point was that whey protein is far from worthless. I'm well aware of the need for numerous vitamins and minerals, protein included. As I said in my earlier post creatine, protein, and a multivitamin are the basics. As for the example you gave, 2-3 meals/day 3-4/workouts a week type person would actually greatly benefit from a protein supplement.

Whey protein is the absolute best protein for you; it's easily processed and absorbed by your body. Soy protein is great too, but frankly it tastes like hell...so who's gonna stick with it? :njphins: Animal protein is great in and of itself, but a lot of times it comes with a lot of animal fat, which of course isn't good.

But make sure not to eat or drink just protein, balance it with some carbs and good fat. If you don't, again you won't be using the optimum amount of nutrition from what you eat, and your body has to do cartwheels with your insulin to compensate.

Motion
02-10-2006, 02:56 PM
Well I have two REALLY good paying jobs, bartenders in popular nightclubs tend to make VERY good money, add that to the fact that its in Hawai'i which has tons of tourists year round plus a military base for every branch and we are always pretty busy. Plus with Nitric Oxide you are supposed to be on for 3 months then off for a month, and the Nitrix comes in deal where you buy like 3 bottles (each bottle last almost a month) and it's only like $70 instead of like $40 a bottle, and the No-Xplod tubs last FOREVER, so it really looks more expensive than it is. The worst part of it isn't the price but the AMOUNT of pills you swallow in a day, lol. My day for pill consumintion is like this:

3 Nitrix Pills when I wake up, and 1 Chromium Picolinate
2 Mega Men with the first meal of the day
3 more Nitrix pills 6 hours later
3 MORE Nitrix pills 6 hours after that
Glass of No-Xplode (3 scoops in 12 oz of water) 30-60 mins before my workout.
Plus you have to drink CRAZY amounts of water, it's recomended to drink at LEAST 8 12oz glasses a day while on the cycle.

The difficult thing is the timing. The Nitrix and No-Xplode are supposed to be taken on an empty stomach 30-60 minutes before your workout, which is odd because working out on an empty stomach isn't as good as working out with food in your system. It's also hard because the Mega Men need to be taken WITH food. The Chromium Picolinate can be taken whenever. This is all manageable on days off but on days I work it gets hard because I work from 8pm-4am bartending, then I gotta find time to sleep, take the Nitrix every 6hours and time workouts so I'm ready to do em 30-60mins after the Nitrix dose and then time eating so my stomach is pretty much empty by the time I have to Nitrix dose again, lol. It gets even MORE confusing when I'm preparing for a season because I do TWO workouts a day.

Sounds like quite a routine.


*mental note: get a bartender job* :D

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 02:59 PM
Sounds like quite a routine.


*mental note: get a bartender job* :D

:yes: Bartenders also get their pick of the scrumph.

Motion
02-10-2006, 03:00 PM
:yes: Bartenders also get their pick of the scrumph.

*mental note: get bartender job QUICK!* :wink:

The Confessor
02-10-2006, 03:01 PM
One thing I do like about VW is you can go on their site and see the labels of most of their products, and most importantly the ingredients.
I also like the fact that they carry lots of different brands, or at least the ones here do


Anything that the human body metabolyzes into formaldehyde is something I don't want to be eating.quote]
Does that mean you dont like to enjoy a barley pop:D . You do know that is what a hangover really is. The body dealing with the Formaldehyde it creates after ingesting Alcohol.

[QUOTE].... and the Nitrix comes in deal where you buy like 3 bottles (each bottle last almost a month) and it's only like $70 instead of like $40 a bottle, and the No-Xplod tubs last FOREVER, so it really looks more expensive than it is. The worst part of it isn't the price but the AMOUNT of pills you swallow in a day, lol. My day for pill consumintion is like this:

DONT YOU MEAN 40 instead of 70?:D No-xplode is the best I have tried. I get it at VITAMIN WORLD for about 50 bucks a tub.

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 03:03 PM
...[quote=NaboCane]Anything that the human body metabolyzes into formaldehyde is something I don't want to be eating.quote]
Does that mean you dont like to enjoy a barley pop:D . You do know that is what a hangover really is. The body dealing with the Formaldehyde it creates after ingesting Alcohol...

Yeah, but that's the good formaldehyde...:evil:

Agent51
02-10-2006, 03:07 PM
Sounds like quite a routine.


*mental note: get a bartender job* :D

Yeah, definately bartend, but in a club not a bar, and preferably a popular one, and if you get one that celebs go to then you're golden, celebs or "high income" people tip AMAZINGLY well. Let's just say that to give you an idea of HOW well, I started a "Ferrari" fund for myself and at the rate I'm going I will be able to afford one in 13 months, and that is WITHOUT breaking the bank, I can still pay rent, pay bills, plus have plenty of spending money. It's definately an all or nothing job though. I've had bartending jobs where you make crap, and I've had ones like my current ones where you can't even fathom the $, it all depends on the club/clientel. Speaking of, The Pro Bowl guys come to my club all the time, Lat year I met McNabb (COMPLETE A-HOLE in real life FYI) and a bunch of the guys. I've got pictures somewhere on one of my comps.

Even if you don't use the Nitric Oxide suppliments just get some Chromium, its great, and SUPER cheap, it's like $5 for 100 pills.

BTW, here is an example of what Nitrix is capable of:
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/02/Gal_Feb03LG-1.jpg

That's Ronnie Coleman. I don't follow body building, nor am I interested in it (it looks reetarded in my opinion) but from what I gather he is the current "man to beat" in the sport, and he not only uses but is the spokesman for all the BSN products, Nitrix, NO-Xplode, Cellmass etc etc. Anyone playing college ball, or planning on it, or any other sanctioned level where there are banned supbstances can't use cellmass because it's creatine, and I know the NCAA has creatine banned, but Nitrix and NO-Xplode are legal.

Motion
02-10-2006, 03:07 PM
DONT YOU MEAN 40 instead of 70?:D No-xplode is the best I have tried. I get it at VITAMIN WORLD for about 50 bucks a tub.

I think he meant $70 for 3 instead of $40 a piece.

Motion
02-10-2006, 03:08 PM
Even if you don't use the Nitric Oxide suppliments just get some Chromium, its great, and SUPER cheap, it's like $5 for 100 pills.


Already ordered some. :wink:

Agent51
02-10-2006, 03:09 PM
I also like the fact that they carry lots of different brands, or at least the ones here do

[quote=NaboCane]Anything that the human body metabolyzes into formaldehyde is something I don't want to be eating.quote]
Does that mean you dont like to enjoy a barley pop:D . You do know that is what a hangover really is. The body dealing with the Formaldehyde it creates after ingesting Alcohol.


DONT YOU MEAN 40 instead of 70?:D No-xplode is the best I have tried. I get it at VITAMIN WORLD for about 50 bucks a tub.

No, I worded it wrong but what I meant is Nitrix is anywhere from $30-40 PER BOTTLE depending on where you get it from, but most places have deals where you can get 3 bottles for $70-80ish TOTAL, not each, meaning you save up to $40 buying 3 together.

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 03:21 PM
Wow, that Ronnie Coleman guy sure has made the best of what nature gave him. He doesn't have long muscles, but he's worked his short-medium muscles to their max. Notice his pectorals, how small they seem, expecially against the backdrop of those lats, and the abs below. :eek:

tucker
02-10-2006, 03:22 PM
Even if you don't use the Nitric Oxide suppliments just get some Chromium, its great, and SUPER cheap, it's like $5 for 100 pills.

BTW, here is an example of what Nitrix is capable of:
http://www.bigroncoleman.com/media/Gal_Feb03LG.jpg

That's Ronnie Coleman. I don't follow body building, nor am I interested in it (it looks reetarded in my opinion) but from what I gather he is the current "man to beat" in the sport, and he not only uses but is the spokesman for all the BSN products, Nitrix, NO-Xplode, Cellmass etc etc. Anyone playing college ball, or planning on it, or any other sanctioned level where there are banned supbstances can't use cellmass because it's creatine, and I know the NCAA has creatine banned, but Nitrix and NO-Xplode are legal.well you can tell advertising is working here..ronnie takes so much growth hormones and steroids its crazy..you dont really think those supps will make you look like that do you? how do you think his abs are so big and extended like that? bu the man is a beast..nobody even comes close to him in bodybuilding..i doubt he even takes that stuff on a regular basis..they also paid him $1 million+ to advertise for the company..

Agent51
02-10-2006, 03:29 PM
well you can tell advertising is working here..ronnie takes so much growth hormones and steroids its crazy..you dont really think those supps will make you look like that do you? how do you think his abs are so big and extended like that? bu the man is a beast..nobody even comes close to him in bodybuilding..i doubt he even takes that stuff on a regular basis..they also paid him $1 million+ to advertise for the company..

He is not the reason I buy, or started taking the stuff. I didn't even know who he was until AFTER I had been using the products for aboiut a month and I told someone about it and they were like "oh, the stuff colman uses?" I'm just saying, he is the spokesman. I know you don't get like that just by taking the stuff, all I'm saying is he uses it so it must be worth something. Not to mention I have gotten GREAT results from the product, so I'm endorsing it, and I'm a very picky person, lol, so if I recomend something it must mean I really like it.

tucker
02-10-2006, 06:59 PM
He is not the reason I buy, or started taking the stuff. I didn't even know who he was until AFTER I had been using the products for aboiut a month and I told someone about it and they were like "oh, the stuff colman uses?" I'm just saying, he is the spokesman. I know you don't get like that just by taking the stuff, all I'm saying is he uses it so it must be worth something. Not to mention I have gotten GREAT results from the product, so I'm endorsing it, and I'm a very picky person, lol, so if I recomend something it must mean I really like it.i hear what your saying, but he uses it b/c he gets paid to use it

UCFinfan86
02-10-2006, 07:05 PM
here is the #1 on the market right now, for under 65.
http://bodybuilding.com/store/opt/whey.html

also, when you max bench, what do you do for warmups?

i've only maxed once and that was 2 weeks ago, but i just kept going up in weight and i did each weight 1 time.

Also after reading through the whole thread, it sorta seems now that taking just protein bars and creatine won't do anything. Ugh ima have to get a 2nd job to pay for this stuff

tucker
02-10-2006, 07:08 PM
protein bars should be taken rarely..they are more bad than good for you

NaboCane
02-10-2006, 07:17 PM
here is the #1 on the market right now, for under 65.
http://bodybuilding.com/store/opt/whey.html

also, when you max bench, what do you do for warmups?

Do iso; find a doorway, stand right in it and put one arm outstretched along the wall on the side your back is on; with the other arm, steady yourself in the doorway; then try to push the wall forward using that outstretched arm. Repeat with the other arm.

Or do some flys with small weights.

UCFinfan86
02-10-2006, 08:56 PM
protein bars should be taken rarely..they are more bad than good for you

how so

Motion
02-11-2006, 10:24 AM
how so

Yeah I'd like to hear why protein bars are bad as well?

tucker
02-11-2006, 11:51 AM
b'c they are full of unnecessary ingredients..they arent just protein...they are ok to have once in a while but to have all they time

Motion
02-11-2006, 12:28 PM
b'c they are full of unnecessary ingredients..they arent just protein...they are ok to have once in a while but to have all they time

But how are they more bad than good for you?

dolfan72734me
04-18-2006, 04:39 PM
i hear what your saying, but he uses it b/c he gets paid to use it
It is also know that a majority of bb'ers who promo a product don't even use it. May of them use other products. Beverly International is one of them. Best quality, but pretty expensive.

MillerTime
04-18-2006, 04:46 PM
At 16 I was benching 225, but then I became real lazy and stopped working out. All I take are protein shakes. Creatine may work but I have heard that ou lose everything if you stop taking it. Protein and hard work worked for me, I am just now starting to work out again. I wish I hadn't stopped.

Motion
04-18-2006, 05:20 PM
At 16 I was benching 225, but then I became real lazy and stopped working out. All I take are protein shakes. Creatine may work but I have heard that ou lose everything if you stop taking it. Protein and hard work worked for me, I am just now starting to work out again. I wish I hadn't stopped.

Thats pretty impressive. What were your stats at that age? Height? Weight?

MillerTime
04-18-2006, 05:27 PM
Thats pretty impressive. What were your stats at that age? Height? Weight?
I was around 5'10, 180

Spray Mucus
04-18-2006, 05:42 PM
It is also know that a majority of bb'ers who promo a product don't even use it. May of them use other products.

Muscletech anyone? :sidelol:

Motion
04-18-2006, 05:43 PM
Muscletech anyone? :sidelol:
Does it not seem like they have a new product out every week?

tucker
04-18-2006, 05:50 PM
It is also know that a majority of bb'ers who promo a product don't even use it. May of them use other products. Beverly International is one of them. Best quality, but pretty expensive.great company but ya they are waaay to expensive

Spray Mucus
05-02-2006, 06:43 PM
If I may chime in here really quick.

I've skimed through most of the thread and have gathered a few things up. Now take itfor what it's worth, but I've worked out for quite a few years now and have experimented with a lot of supps, am very well read in the do's and don't of working out.

If your looking to grow/bulk/add muscle, the main micronutriant you can not live without is the Carb. I'm talking high quailty carbs, simple and complex

Simple carbs such as fruit are by far the best for you. Fruit juices and refined sugar are terrible for you.

Complex carbs, NON bleached flour products. long grain brown rice, red potatoes, whole wheat pastas, Whole Oats. are by fair the best for you. White rice has had all it's nutrients striped, regular pasta is bleached, white bread is just as healthy as glue.

Now to tackle the protein debate. All protein is essintial to growth and recovery. Protein helps recovery time and prevents muscle loss.

Whey protein - is the essiest to absobr in the body, this is why you should emediatly have a whey protein supplemnt emediatly after weight training to get the recovry stage started right away. Make sure your supplement or post work out shake doesn't contain to much fat, because fat will slow the obsorbtion.

Soy Protein - This protein, although not exactly essential to recovry, it can be helpfull. it usually takes 3 hours to obsorb.

Animal Protein - Animal protein usually takes 3-4 hours to digust fully.

Casein Protein - This protien is the slowest type of protein to obsord, which is why you want to eat some casein before you go to bed, that way your body doesn't go through catabolism (muscle loss) mid way through the night.

EGG protein - pound for pound the most concentrated of proteins. Don't be afraid to eat the yokes, yes fatty, but chalked full of omega 3 fatty acids.

Now lets cover FAT, it's important to get at least 15% of diet to dietary fat.

Nuts
avacado
olives
olive oil
fish oil
sesamin oil

I'm running out of time here so I'll touch more on it tomorrow.

L-Glutamin by the way is trash, you'll need to intake about 25-30g a day for it to pass through your liver to even be effective. Glutamin peptides are what you really want to take.

I gotta run but I'll finish my write up tomorrow for those interested.

HysterikiLL
05-02-2006, 07:14 PM
Balco is the way to go.

Rocky Raccoon
05-02-2006, 07:16 PM
Balco is the way to go.

:sidelol: Hk is the man :yes:

dolfan72734me
05-02-2006, 08:12 PM
Balco is the way to go.
:boohoo: Yes they were.
Err, I mean that is what I have been told:foundout:

Motion
05-02-2006, 09:36 PM
If I may chime in here really quick.

I've skimed through most of the thread and have gathered a few things up. Now take itfor what it's worth, but I've worked out for quite a few years now and have experimented with a lot of supps, am very well read in the do's and don't of working out.

If your looking to grow/bulk/add muscle, the main micronutriant you can not live without is the Carb. I'm talking high quailty carbs, simple and complex

Simple carbs such as fruit are by far the best for you. Fruit juices and refined sugar are terrible for you.

Complex carbs, NON bleached flour products. long grain brown rice, red potatoes, whole wheat pastas, Whole Oats. are by fair the best for you. White rice has had all it's nutrients striped, regular pasta is bleached, white bread is just as healthy as glue.

Now to tackle the protein debate. All protein is essintial to growth and recovery. Protein helps recovery time and prevents muscle loss.

Whey protein - is the essiest to absobr in the body, this is why you should emediatly have a whey protein supplemnt emediatly after weight training to get the recovry stage started right away. Make sure your supplement or post work out shake doesn't contain to much fat, because fat will slow the obsorbtion.

Soy Protein - This protein, although not exactly essential to recovry, it can be helpfull. it usually takes 3 hours to obsorb.

Animal Protein - Animal protein usually takes 3-4 hours to digust fully.

Casein Protein - This protien is the slowest type of protein to obsord, which is why you want to eat some casein before you go to bed, that way your body doesn't go through catabolism (muscle loss) mid way through the night.

EGG protein - pound for pound the most concentrated of proteins. Don't be afraid to eat the yokes, yes fatty, but chalked full of omega 3 fatty acids.

Now lets cover FAT, it's important to get at least 15% of diet to dietary fat.

Nuts
avacado
olives
olive oil
fish oil
sesamin oil

I'm running out of time here so I'll touch more on it tomorrow.

L-Glutamin by the way is trash, you'll need to intake about 25-30g a day for it to pass through your liver to even be effective. Glutamin peptides are what you really want to take.

I gotta run but I'll finish my write up tomorrow for those interested.

Great post

Dubfire
05-02-2006, 09:47 PM
Thanks for digging this back up Motion.

I was looking for it at work today to show a friend.

Spray Mucus
05-03-2006, 11:53 AM
Instead of taking a couple of hours to write up everything one should know, I dug up a great write up on supps/nutrition/working outs/and rest. It's a long read but it's very informative and all pretty much fact.

Bottom line is, you need proper nutition, rest, and excersize. Nutrition will absolutly make or break what your trying to achieve, and unfortunatly that is the hardest thing to master. Meaning, knowing when to take in certain types of micronutients at what time of the day and what type to take in and around your workouts.

here is the link, great for beginners and not to bad for the novice, trust me it's gold! http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek46.htm

Spray Mucus
05-03-2006, 12:02 PM
also, here is a great list of whole foods I compiled over the years. If there is food you question as good or bad, refer to this list, if it's not on this list then it means it's probably bad for you or borderline bad.

again, I can't stress enough how important nutrition is for success.


Protein


Eggs (whites and whole eggs)
Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
Tuna (water packed)
Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut, sushi, mahi mahi, Orange roughi, tilapia, Sardines)
Shrimp
Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%)
Venison
Buffalo
Ostrich
Protein Powder (Whey, Casein, Soy, Egg)
Low or Non-Fat Cottage cheese, Ricotta
Low fat or Non fat Yogurt
Ribeye Steaks or Roast
Top Round Steaks or Roast (stew meat, London broil, Stir fry)
Top Sirloin (Sirloin Top Butt)
Beef Tenderloin (filet mignon)
Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)
Flank Steak (Stir Fry, Fajitas)
Eye of Round (Cube meat, Stew meat, Bottom Round)
Ground Turkey, Turkey Breast slices or cutlets (*no deli or sandwich meats)

Complex Carbs (nothing enriched, bleached or processed if possible)

Oatmeal (Old fashioned, Quick oats, Irish steal cut)
Sweet Potatoes, Yams
Beans (Black eyed, Pinto, Red, Kidney, Black)
Oat Bran Cereal, Grape nuts, Rye cereal, Multi grain hot cereal
Farin (Cream of wheat)
Whole wheat or Spinach Pasta, Whey Pasta
Rice (Brown, jasmin, basmiti, arborio, wild)
Potatoes (red, white, baking)

Fibrous Carbs

Green Leafy lettuce (red, green, romaine)
Broccoli
Asparagus
String Beans
Spinach
Bell Pepers (Green or Red)
Brussels Sprouts
Cauliflower
Cabbage
Celery
Cucumber
Carrots
Onions
Garlic
Tomatoes
Zucchini

Fruit (SIMPLE CARBS)
bananas
Oranges
Apples
Grapefruit
Peaches
Strawberries
Blueberries
Raspberries
Lemons
Limes
Papaya

Dieatary Fats (Healthy Fats)

Natural Style Peanut Butter
Olives
Olive oil, Safflower oil
Flaxseed oil
Fish Oil
peanuts
Almonds
Walnuts
Macadamia nuts
Avacado
Pumpkin seeds
Sunflower seeds
Mayo

Dairy

Low of Non-Fat cottage cheese, Ricotta
Low or non-fat milk
Low fat or non-fat yogurt


everyday Supps

Multi vitamin
Vitamin C (1gram)
Vitamin E (400 IEU)
Whey protein powder (Isolate or concentrate)
Fish oils (6 grams)














Condiments & Spices

Diet Soda
Crystal light
Fat free mayonaise
Reduced sodium Soy Sauce
Reduced sodium Teriyaki Sauce
Black Pepper
crushed red peppers
cinnamon
balsamic Vinegar
Salsa, Jalepenos
Hot peppers and Hot sauce, Cayanne pepper
Chili powder and Chili paste
Mrs. Dash (any NON salted spice)
Steak Sauce
Maple Syrup (Raw and unprocessed)
Honey (Raw and unproceesed)
Mustard
Extracts (vanilla, almond, etc)
Low sodium beef or chicken Broth
Plain or reduced sodium tomatoe sauce or paste

Motion
05-03-2006, 12:17 PM
I think your "Condiments and Spices" list needs some work but other than that thats a solid list of food guidelines to follow.

Spray Mucus
05-03-2006, 12:38 PM
I think your "Condiments and Spices" list needs some work but other than that thats a solid list of food guidelines to follow.

feel free to add or question and I'll edit. That list is to benefit anyone and everyone on the board.

Motion
05-03-2006, 01:44 PM
Not sure how Diet Soda fits into that category for one, secondly if your talking spices, Cinnamon is very good for you. Along with Green Tea extract.

MillerTime
05-03-2006, 01:54 PM
here is the link, great for beginners and not to bad for the novice, trust me it's gold! http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek46.htm
there is some great info there, thanks for sharing

Spray Mucus
05-03-2006, 03:27 PM
Not sure how Diet Soda fits into that category for one, secondly if your talking spices, Cinnamon is very good for you. Along with Green Tea extract.

:lol: I actually added that into the catigory mainly for a co-worker who isa soda feen. Diet soda although not great for you, is way better to drink than fruit juice or regular soda. 3 or 4 diet sodas a week can't hurt you. So in essence your absolutly right, I wouldn't call a soda a comdement or spice.

Well I'll be darned, cinnamon is not on my list, funny, because I use cinnamon all the time in my oats. good call.

as for green tea, I wouldn't lump that in spices. I would catagorize it more as an antioxident. Great antioxidents are

Green tea
White tea
red tea
Alpha lipoic acid (ALA)
ALCAR
Fish oil
Vitamin E
Vitamin C
CoQ10
sesamin oil
Flax seed oil
varies berries
brocili


geez I can go on forever with this one.

Motion
05-03-2006, 03:56 PM
:lol: I actually added that into the catigory mainly for a co-worker who isa soda feen. Diet soda although not great for you, is way better to drink than fruit juice or regular soda. 3 or 4 diet sodas a week can't hurt you. So in essence your absolutly right, I wouldn't call a soda a comdement or spice.

Well I'll be darned, cinnamon is not on my list, funny, because I use cinnamon all the time in my oats. good call.

as for green tea, I wouldn't lump that in spices. I would catagorize it more as an antioxident. Great antioxidents are

Green tea
White tea
red tea
Alpha lipoic acid (ALA)
ALCAR
Fish oil
Vitamin E
Vitamin C
CoQ10
sesamin oil
Flax seed oil
varies berries
brocili


geez I can go on forever with this one.

Yeah, good call on the antioxidants. I always throw some cinnamon in my shakes too.

tucker
05-03-2006, 04:40 PM
i used to use alcar all the time..good stuff

Motion
11-02-2006, 03:54 PM
Anyone try anything good lately? Any good new products out there?

NewEra8
11-02-2006, 04:22 PM
The Fizogen On Off cycle works good but it'll make ya pissed off... I was takin that along with creatine in the offseason...

The biggest thing is just to eat good with a lot of protein and take a good multivitamin each day... If ya have no reason to bulk up real fast for sports just go that route...

If ya do take creatine, make sure you have a solid work out plan, or you'll end up bloatin up and have b**** ****

(Edit: woman boobs)

Motion
11-02-2006, 04:25 PM
The Fizogen On Off cycle works good but it'll make ya pissed off... I was takin that along with creatine in the offseason...

The biggest thing is just to eat good with a lot of protein and take a good multivitamin each day... If ya have no reason to bulk up real fast for sports just go that route...

If ya do take creatine, make sure you have a solid work out plan, or you'll end up bloatin up and have b**** ****

(Edit: woman boobs)

You go to JMU?

My bro goes to Bridgewater.

NewEra8
11-02-2006, 04:27 PM
You go to JMU?

My bro goes to Bridgewater.

Play any sports? Whats his name?

Motion
11-02-2006, 04:34 PM
Play any sports? Whats his name?

Used to play Golf