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Philter25
02-27-2006, 07:49 PM
....anyone else watching this? Although not directly, they are totally clowning Young with their "sample" wonderlic test questions. Its definately not intentional on ESPN's part, but come on, read through the lines. :sidelol:

Alex44
02-27-2006, 07:50 PM
They are, yeah those are questions 1 and 2 on the test

They fail to mention the questions get HARDER

if they were all that easy everyone would get 100%

flintsilver7
02-27-2006, 08:17 PM
They are, yeah those are questions 1 and 2 on the test

They fail to mention the questions get HARDER

if they were all that easy everyone would get 100%

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

"Progressively harder" does not mean the questions go from basic logic and knowledge to questions on applied computation fluid dynamics. You're hanging on that like white on rice, and I wish I had never told you that the questions get harder. Look at the sample exam.

Motion
02-27-2006, 08:17 PM
I love it

Alex44
02-27-2006, 08:21 PM
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

"Progressively harder" does not mean the questions go from basic logic and knowledge to questions on applied computation fluid dynamics. You're hanging on that like white on rice, and I wish I had never told you that the questions get harder. Look at the sample exam.


I knew the questions got harder before you told me

It means they go from being super easy, to requireing actual thinking


If it was THAT easy everyone would score a 50

Philter25
02-27-2006, 08:22 PM
:sidelol: Im sorry guys.... but that by FAR was the funniest hour long sportscenter I have ever watched.

flintsilver7
02-27-2006, 08:22 PM
I knew the questions got harder before you told me

It means they go from being super easy, to requireing actual thinking


If it was THAT easy everyone would score a 50

The average score is 20 among all players and 24 among quarterbacks. Quarterbacks are expected to be smarter - that's all. Some of the later questions are complex and require a little bit of work.

Alex44
02-27-2006, 08:23 PM
The average score is 20 among all players and 24 among quarterbacks. Quarterbacks are expected to be smarter - that's all. Some of the later questions are complex and require a little bit of work.

Well lets say he got a 16 retakes it and gets a 20

Thats not THAT bad, if he fails it wont be because of the wonderlic test, thats my only point here

Philter25
02-27-2006, 08:25 PM
I knew the questions got harder before you told me

It means they go from being super easy, to requireing actual thinking


If it was THAT easy everyone would score a 50 :lol: So a trained crap-slinging monkey can answer the first 20, and then the more educated monkeys who poop in the corner can answer rest?

Come on, you are defending Young like you are his agent...... hmmmmm...... maybe it all makes sense now. :wink:

The guy is dumb as a barn door......

Philter25
02-27-2006, 08:26 PM
if he fails it wont be because of the wonderlic test, thats my only point here

You are absoutely right. It will be because he doesnt have the ability to play his game on the NFL level.

Alex44
02-27-2006, 08:28 PM
:lol: So a trained crap-slinging monkey can answer the first 20, and then the more educated monkeys who poop in the corner can answer rest?

Come on, you are defending Young like you are his agent...... hmmmmm...... maybe it all makes sense now. :wink:

The guy is dumb as a barn door......

To think that you have obviously never heard the guy talk, or seen him interview or anything, because he isnt a dumb person at all

Skeet84
02-27-2006, 08:30 PM
Wow I still can't believe you guys are still on this.

tucker
02-27-2006, 08:30 PM
i just noticed that he has a pic of young in his avy..figures

flintsilver7
02-27-2006, 08:31 PM
What I really want to know is what did the following players score on the test:

Rae Carruth
Jamal Lewis
O.J. Simpson
Leonard Little

Philter25
02-27-2006, 08:31 PM
To think that you have obviously never heard the guy talk, or seen him interview or anything, because he isnt a dumb person at all I have heard him talk and interview. During the pre-heisman ceremony I was very impressed with how well he seemed to carry himself.

So he scores horribly on the wonderlic and he isnt a dumb person at all? Are you his geometry tutor?

Now I dont want you thinking that I believe the wonderlic is everything, it isnt at all, but it IS a direct reflection of their common sense and basic intelligence and problem solving ability and the ability to think fast. Thats a quality I would like in my QB.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
02-27-2006, 08:34 PM
To think that you have obviously never heard the guy talk, or seen him interview or anything, because he isnt a dumb person at all
actually i have, and that's how i first thought he was dumb. he doesn't sound very smart at all.

Motion
02-27-2006, 08:42 PM
actually i have, and that's how i first thought he was dumb. he doesn't sound very smart at all.

I agree

finfan54
02-27-2006, 09:32 PM
vince young is cool. leave my boy alone or he will fake your jockstrap out and score another 6!

Pennington's Rocket Arm
02-28-2006, 12:25 AM
vince young is cool. leave my boy alone or he will fake your jockstrap out and score another 6!
yeah i remember when he did that in that oklahoma state game. quite a defense he was facing there.

DcRy82
02-28-2006, 01:17 AM
You knock a guy for getting a 16 on the test yet our hall of fame QB whom every dolphin fan is a fan because of ( well, a lot anyways) scored a 16 or 17... doesnt look like danny had any problems breaking down or should i say shredding defenses to pieces....

Ferretsquig
02-28-2006, 01:32 AM
Amazing...the guy rises to be the #1 player in the draft after a great game, and now people are talking about him dropping out of the top ten after unsubstantiated rumors about some stupid test. The guy may be a idiot when it comes to things like basic literacy and arithmatic, but does that affect how good a football player he is?

AZStryker
02-28-2006, 01:41 AM
To think that you have obviously never heard the guy talk, or seen him interview or anything, because he isnt a dumb person at all

Have you heard him talk??? I have to agree with the other guys. He removed all doubt when he opened his mouth. I still think the 6 was correct.

Philter25
02-28-2006, 09:28 AM
Amazing...the guy rises to be the #1 player in the draft after a great game, and now people are talking about him dropping out of the top ten after unsubstantiated rumors about some stupid test. The guy may be a idiot when it comes to things like basic literacy and arithmatic, but does that affect how good a football player he is? I had him out of the top 10 before his score even came out. :lol:

His game does not translate well to the NFL. I would love to see him sit in the shotgun all game long and try to run on every single play against the speedy outside guys in the NFL. If VY cant throw the ball effectively, he will be useless in the NFL......

FinFrenzy
02-28-2006, 10:01 AM
:sidelol: Im sorry guys.... but that by FAR was the funniest hour long sportscenter I have ever watched.


Philter25 thank you for the good laugh this had me laughing from your sig :sidelol:

:laughat: http://gprime.net/flash.php/postingandyou

Alex44
02-28-2006, 10:19 AM
actually i have, and that's how i first thought he was dumb. he doesn't sound very smart at all.

He talks weird but if you listen to what he's saying it makes sense

I dont think he is a rocket scientist by any stretch but I dont think he is an idiot either

nick1
02-28-2006, 10:21 AM
I had him out of the top 10 before his score even came out. :lol:

His game does not translate well to the NFL. I would love to see him sit in the shotgun all game long and try to run on every single play against the speedy outside guys in the NFL. If VY cant throw the ball effectively, he will be useless in the NFL......
he can't throw effectiviely? thats news to me, since when is putting up 3,000 yards and posting one of the best QB ratings in the nation not throwing effectively? he only runs out of the shotgun in college because thats what all good running QB do in college, it's called maximazing his talent. do you see Vick running out of the shotgun in the NFL? he's still effective, he needs to learn to pass but Vick is still very effective. Young is proven a better passer than Vick. he is far more accurate and has just as good of a arm. the thing that sperates Young frm everybody else is his leadership, he is a gamer. he was joking around in the huddle during the title game, thats how relaxed he was. he was out to prove the world wrong for not giving him he Heisman and he did by dominating USC and winning MVP. what more do you want? he has prototypical QB size, he has prototypical arm strengh, he has above average leadership and above average legs

nick1
02-28-2006, 10:22 AM
he passed college at Texas, he's no idoit

Alex44
02-28-2006, 10:24 AM
he can't throw effectiviely? thats news to me, since when is putting up 3,000 yards and posting one of the best QB ratings in the nation not throwing effectively? he only runs out of the shotgun in college because thats what all good running QB do in college, it's called maximazing his talent. do you see Vick running out of the shotgun in the NFL? he's still effective, he needs to learn to pass but Vick is still very effective. Young is proven a better passer than Vick. he is far more accurate and has just as good of a arm. the thing that sperates Young frm everybody else is his leadership, he is a gamer. he was joking around in the huddle during the title game, thats how relaxed he was. he was out to prove the world wrong for not giving him he Heisman and he did by dominating USC and winning MVP. what more do you want? he has prototypical QB size, he has prototypical arm strengh, he has above average leadership and above average legs

:yeahthat:

The other thing that seperates them is size

Vick is closer to 5'11 than 6'0

Young is 6'5

Young can see and scan the whole field and isnt intimidated when the rush is coming, ive seen him just stand there with a linebacker comeing, step up in the pocket and fire it downfield, he's got great pocket presence people seem to overlook

Motion
02-28-2006, 10:34 AM
Young is proven a better passer than Vick. he is far more accurate and has just as good of a arm...

Complete BS. Proven how? Young hasn't taken a single snap in the NFL. Young doesn't have half the arm strength of Vick.

PhinSoldia
02-28-2006, 10:58 AM
:lol: So a trained crap-slinging monkey can answer the first 20, and then the more educated monkeys who poop in the corner can answer rest?

Come on, you are defending Young like you are his agent...... hmmmmm...... maybe it all makes sense now. :wink:

The guy is dumb as a barn door......

Check Please

Motion
02-28-2006, 11:02 AM
he passed college at Texas, he's no idoit

I'm sure he had no help either being the star Qb. I mean he sounds very educated.

GRAPEAPE
02-28-2006, 11:11 AM
he passed college at Texas, he's no idoitMost college atheletes are required to go to table sessions where people help you with your work. I am sure most of the player on that team had some sort of tutor through school. I would imagine some had more help then others, judging by the wonderlic score some had ALOT more help.

Philter25
02-28-2006, 11:36 AM
he can't throw effectiviely? thats news to me, since when is putting up 3,000 yards and posting one of the best QB ratings in the nation not throwing effectively? he only runs out of the shotgun in college because thats what all good running QB do in college, it's called maximazing his talent. do you see Vick running out of the shotgun in the NFL? he's still effective, he needs to learn to pass but Vick is still very effective. Young is proven a better passer than Vick. he is far more accurate and has just as good of a arm. the thing that sperates Young frm everybody else is his leadership, he is a gamer. he was joking around in the huddle during the title game, thats how relaxed he was. he was out to prove the world wrong for not giving him he Heisman and he did by dominating USC and winning MVP. what more do you want? he has prototypical QB size, he has prototypical arm strengh, he has above average leadership and above average legs :lol:

Again, college STATS MEAN NOTHING! So he threw for 3000 yards in college, does that make him the next Manning? :lol: Give me a break. Young is a proven better passer than Vick? :lol: How? Because he put up good college numbers?

Thats like me saying Reggie Bush is a proven better running back than XXX.

He does NOT have the prototypical arm strength. :lol:

What I would like in a QB is a QB where Texas didnt need to DUMB down the offense for and a QB who can drop back in the pocket and progress through more than 1 read before he takes off running and a QB with great accuracy, GOOD THROWING MECHANICS, and the ability to thread the needle with the ball if needed.

Sounds like all this stuff is news to you also. Vince Young is a GREAT COLLEGE football player. His game will get SQUASHED in the NFL.

Philter25
02-28-2006, 11:36 AM
he passed college at Texas, he's no idoit .....one would think. :sidelol:

Philter25
02-28-2006, 11:38 AM
Complete BS. Proven how? Young hasn't taken a single snap in the NFL. Young doesn't have half the arm strength of Vick. You forget, he threw for 300 yards in college. If thats not NFL proven, then heck, I dont know what is. :shakeno: Young also has great armstrength, I know this because I watched 1 Texas game this year and I saw Vince throw the ball hard.

nick1
02-28-2006, 11:45 AM
:lol:

Again, college STATS MEAN NOTHING! So he threw for 3000 yards in college, does that make him the next Manning? :lol: Give me a break. Young is a proven better passer than Vick? :lol: How? Because he put up good college numbers?

Thats like me saying Reggie Bush is a proven better running back than XXX.

He does NOT have the prototypical arm strength. :lol:

What I would like in a QB is a QB where Texas didnt need to DUMB down the offense for and a QB who can drop back in the pocket and progress through more than 1 read before he takes off running and a QB with great accuracy, GOOD THROWING MECHANICS, and the ability to thread the needle with the ball if needed.

Sounds like all this stuff is news to you also. Vince Young is a GREAT COLLEGE football player. His game will get SQUASHED in the NFL.
how did they "dumb" it down? there is no proof, they simply built the offense around Young and his abilities. he scored a 16 which is higher than Marino, why are you holding that against him? I was comparing Vick's college career and Young's college career and no doubt Young had the better career by far. Young read the USC defense all day and took what they gave him which is what you ask of a QB, they took away the deep ball so you couldn't see his arm strengh that day.

I have seen Young multiple times, I have seen at least 10 of his games. I don't appreciate you attacking me just because I disagree with you

GRAPEAPE
02-28-2006, 11:46 AM
You forget, he threw for 300 yards in college. If thats not NFL proven, then heck, I dont know what is. :shakeno: Young also has great armstrength, I know this because I watched 1 Texas game this year and I saw Vince throw the ball hard.was that sarcsm? oh it was, just checking. Philter funny

Pennington's Rocket Arm
02-28-2006, 11:49 AM
he can't throw effectiviely? thats news to me, since when is putting up 3,000 yards and posting one of the best QB ratings in the nation not throwing effectively? he only runs out of the shotgun in college because thats what all good running QB do in college, it's called maximazing his talent. do you see Vick running out of the shotgun in the NFL? he's still effective, he needs to learn to pass but Vick is still very effective. Young is proven a better passer than Vick. he is far more accurate and has just as good of a arm. the thing that sperates Young frm everybody else is his leadership, he is a gamer. he was joking around in the huddle during the title game, thats how relaxed he was. he was out to prove the world wrong for not giving him he Heisman and he did by dominating USC and winning MVP. what more do you want? he has prototypical QB size, he has prototypical arm strengh, he has above average leadership and above average legs
throwing for 3000 yards on a team that is in the top 5 recruiting class every year for offensive players isn't effective; it's guaranteed. he had tons of talent around him, that's nothing too impressive. QBs from hawaii and texas tech rack up 4000 yards every year. he doesn't have NEAR the arm strength as vick, not even close. i don't get all this "leadership" stuff with vince young. i don't see too much different btween him and omar jacobs. both are pretty reserved on the sidelines and seem to be relaxed at all times, yet jacobs is questioned for his leadership. because young is on a team stacked with blue-chippers, he's a leader? i remember seeing young sulking on the sidelines vs. texas a&m. put jacobs on texas and the result is the same. put ANY QB on texas and the result is the same. and why is it a good thing that he used the national championship as a stage to prove he should've won the heisman? if he cared more about THAT than the championship, then we know enough about his character.

arsenal
02-28-2006, 11:56 AM
youngs got good arm strength but hes no vick thats for sure... lets get that clear...

and i think hes great in interviews, he answers questions quickly and properly... i think you people are stereotyping him because hes got a southern drawl... kinda ****ed up but hey you guys think whatever you want...

Alex44
02-28-2006, 11:58 AM
throwing for 3000 yards on a team that is in the top 5 recruiting class every year for offensive players isn't effective; it's guaranteed. he had tons of talent around him, that's nothing too impressive. QBs from hawaii and texas tech rack up 4000 yards every year. he doesn't have NEAR the arm strength as vick, not even close. i don't get all this "leadership" stuff with vince young. i don't see too much different btween him and omar jacobs. both are pretty reserved on the sidelines and seem to be relaxed at all times, yet jacobs is questioned for his leadership. because young is on a team stacked with blue-chippers, he's a leader? i remember seeing young sulking on the sidelines vs. texas a&m. put jacobs on texas and the result is the same. put ANY QB on texas and the result is the same. and why is it a good thing that he used the national championship as a stage to prove he should've won the heisman? if he cared more about THAT than the championship, then we know enough about his character.

Leadership is Vince Youngs strongest point

Whether it be keeping everyone loose in practice, or during games reserved is the last thing I would call Vince Young, He never 'sulks' if you ever see him on the sideline sitting there alone he isnt sulking he is thinking thats well known by his team and everyone around him, but the second he steps back into the huddle its on again, if he sulked USC would be national champions right now

So wait Vince Young should take a knock for the talent he plays with but not Matt Leinart? Matt leinart who has less arm strength than Young and throws floaters all around the field day in and day out? If anyone was helped by the talent around him it was Matt Leinart, Texas didnt have a great running game, teams knew the Ball was going to be in Vince's hands and he still tore them apart, he never runs after the first read which shows how little you have seen, he stands in the pocket better than almost any QB in the country.

You Put Matt Leinart on Texas and they are a two loss team, you put Vince Young on USC and they are national champions

Alex44
02-28-2006, 11:59 AM
[quote=arsenal]youngs got good arm strength but hes no vick thats for sure... lets get that clear...

quote]

Vick has the strongest arm in the NFL IMO

But Vince Young's arm isnt weak like some people are saying

Motion
02-28-2006, 12:01 PM
he never runs after the first read which shows how little you have seen


:sidelol: Shows me how little you've seen.

arsenal
02-28-2006, 12:02 PM
^yeah thats what im saying, someone said hes got an arm like vick, i just disagree with that...

i personally think he can be successful in the nfl, hes got all the intangibles you can ask for in a QB, maybe hes got a funky delivery, maybe hes run a lot in college, but that doesn't mean he cant pass, and that doesn't mean he cant play in the NFL... just cause he did something that would make him successful in college, doesn't mean thast the only thing hes good at... he ran a lot in college cause it worked, does that mean thats all he can do? no what kinda logic is that...

people are saying he cant be a pocket passer but they are basing that on nothing...

Philter25
02-28-2006, 12:03 PM
I have seen Young multiple times, I have seen at least 10 of his games. I don't appreciate you attacking me just because I disagree with you Where did I attack you? :lol:

Alex44
02-28-2006, 12:04 PM
:sidelol: Shows me how little you've seen.

He always goes to AT LEAST his third read before he takes off, those times you see him immediatly run are designed running plays

They use that same play he runs on a lot

Shotgun, Fake HB draw, QB keeper

They run that play between 7-13 times a game, and that accounts for most of his runs

Put it this way, he stands in the pocket very well when he's supposed to, when the play isnt there instead of throwing it away he runs

Flyer22
02-28-2006, 12:05 PM
:deadhorse
No one here is going to concede a point. These back and forth arguments about Young are pretty pointless now.

Philter25
02-28-2006, 12:05 PM
:sidelol: Shows me how little you've seen. :lol:

Certain people I have learned just not to debate with because there is no point, Im suprised you havent learned that lesson yet.

Alex44
02-28-2006, 12:06 PM
:deadhorse
No one here is going to concede a point. These back and forth arguments about Young are pretty pointless now.

:yeahthat:

But Ill stop defending him when everyone stops talking down about him

I can drop the subject, can they?

Philter25
02-28-2006, 12:07 PM
Absolutely. As long as he doesnt get a 10 on the retake of the retake. :lol:

I started this thread because ESPN was totally clowning him and it was hilarious.... I now know not to mention VY without it turning into a dead horse - a - thon.

Motion
02-28-2006, 12:07 PM
He always goes to AT LEAST his third read before he takes off, those times you see him immediatly run are designed running plays

They use that same play he runs on a lot

Shotgun, Fake HB draw, QB keeper

They run that play between 7-13 times a game, and that accounts for most of his runs

Put it this way, he stands in the pocket very well when he's supposed to, when the play isnt there instead of throwing it away he runs

Not true at ALL. I've seen him take off after the first read MANY times. I love how all these Young fans say everytime he runs its a designed play, like you have the playbook in front of you and would know.

Motion
02-28-2006, 12:09 PM
:lol:

Certain people I have learned just not to debate with because there is no point, Im suprised you havent learned that lesson yet.

No I learned that long ago. I just think its hilarious some of the excuses that come up.

Alex44
02-28-2006, 12:11 PM
Not true at ALL. I've seen him take off after the first read MANY times. I love how all these Young fans say everytime he runs its a designed play, like you have the playbook in front of you and would know.

That play is a designed run, which they use about 7 to 13 times a game as I said

I have every game on tape of his, just watch his head scan the field, Ive seen him stand in the pocket with a player bearing straight down on him, he just steps up around the guy and makes the throw

Saying he runs when he isnt supposed to is just insane

Motion
02-28-2006, 12:12 PM
Saying he runs when he isnt supposed to is just insane

I never said that. I said he doesn't always go through his progressions.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
02-28-2006, 12:14 PM
he does take off a lot before reading everything, not that it's a BAD thing, because it usually works. hard to tell if that's just the way he is or if he's doing what the defense gives him, because he did it every game, because he didn't play any good defenses. he tried it against ohio state a few times, and that didn't turn out so well.

Motion
02-28-2006, 12:18 PM
he does take off a lot before reading everything, not that it's a BAD thing, because it usually works. hard to tell if that's just the way he is or if he's doing what the defense gives him, because he did it every game, because he didn't play any good defenses. he tried it against ohio state a few times, and that didn't turn out so well.

I agree, nothing wrong with trying to make a play. My point was its just plain foolish to say he never takes off before checking all his WRs.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
02-28-2006, 12:19 PM
So wait Vince Young should take a knock for the talent he plays with but not Matt Leinart? Matt leinart who has less arm strength than Young and throws floaters all around the field day in and day out? If anyone was helped by the talent around him it was Matt Leinart, Texas didnt have a great running game, teams knew the Ball was going to be in Vince's hands and he still tore them apart, he never runs after the first read which shows how little you have seen, he stands in the pocket better than almost any QB in the country.

You Put Matt Leinart on Texas and they are a two loss team, you put Vince Young on USC and they are national champions
who mentioned leinart? the point was that the guy was bringing up his stats as an example, and i said anyone could put up the same passing stats with the talent around him. it's more that i was discounting his usage of statistics as a measuring tool for how good of a passer he is. and i'm tired of all this "he carried the team on his back" stuff like texas is a bad team. if he got to the rose bowl on, say, vanderbilt--a team that has had ONE offensive player drafted since 1982--i'd be more impressed. lots of 5-star athletes at the skill positions for texas, lots of depth, too, and a massive offensive line. not to mention a top 5 defense (a lot better than leinart's).

nick1
02-28-2006, 02:15 PM
Where did I attack you? :lol:
you were trying to say I only saw Young 1 time which is completely false which challenged my creditablity, it's cool. just one question, how did Mack Brown dumb down the offense for Young? he probably changed the offense to best use Young's strengh but that doesn't mean he dumbed it down

nick1
02-28-2006, 02:24 PM
who mentioned leinart? the point was that the guy was bringing up his stats as an example, and i said anyone could put up the same passing stats with the talent around him. it's more that i was discounting his usage of statistics as a measuring tool for how good of a passer he is. and i'm tired of all this "he carried the team on his back" stuff like texas is a bad team. if he got to the rose bowl on, say, vanderbilt--a team that has had ONE offensive player drafted since 1982--i'd be more impressed. lots of 5-star athletes at the skill positions for texas, lots of depth, too, and a massive offensive line. not to mention a top 5 defense (a lot better than leinart's).
and? you blame him for having good talent around him? you could say that about Bush or Leinart too. they have each other as well as the best o-line in the nation, which makes it alot easier to be successful.

Young has NFL type arm strengh, very good leadership, very good size (prototypical for an NFL QB), good scrambling ability, and is very accurate. why are you talking bad about him? because of some bogus test? because of his throwing motion? because you think he can't read a defense? His throwing motion isn't a problem, NFL scouts have said if anything isn't wrong than don't fix it and they say his throwing motion isn't a problem. he has proven to read defenses, just go over some tape. you guys need to get your facts straight about Young, until than don't bother talking

Motion
02-28-2006, 02:27 PM
and? you blame him for having good talent around him? you could say that about Bush or Leinart too. they have each other as well as the best o-line in the nation, which makes it alot easier to be successful.

Young has NFL type arm strengh, very good leadership, very good size (prototypical for an NFL QB), good scrambling ability, and is very accurate. why are you talking bad about him? because of some bogus test? because of his throwing motion? because you think he can't read a defense? His throwing motion isn't a problem, NFL scouts have said if anything isn't wrong than don't fix it and they say his throwing motion isn't a problem. he has proven to read defenses, just go over some tape. you guys need to get your facts straight about Young, until than don't bother talking

Opinions, everyone's entitled to them.

Philter25
02-28-2006, 02:32 PM
you were trying to say I only saw Young 1 time which is completely false which challenged my creditablity, it's cool. just one question, how did Mack Brown dumb down the offense for Young? he probably changed the offense to best use Young's strengh but that doesn't mean he dumbed it down

That was a sarcastic response to SpeedRush's post mocking all the people who ONLY judge Young based on the Rose Bowl alone.... it wasnt directed at you or else I would have quoted you when I posted it.

Texas ran a dumbed down playbook this year. Since you watched so many Texas games this year, how many times did you see Vince Young under center? Also, how many times a game did Texas run the play where Young was in the shotgun, faked the handoff to the RB, faked the pass, then immediately took off running...... Also, as stated many times here on the board, how many basic passing plays were called where Young looked at one, then maybe two options, then took off running. When those are the majority of your playcalls, thats running a dumbed down playbook.

You call it using Young's strength knowing he is a good runner in college..... I call it running a dumbed down playbook because VY is a running QB and hiding his weaknesses..... either way, the playbook he ran in college in NO WAY shape or form is going to help him in the NFL. It can only hurt him. Thats one of the reasons I think he even came out in college. His hype was at its peak after the national championship game. What would playing another year in a dumbed down running first offense do to help him prepare for the NFL? Absolutely nothing.

Philter25
02-28-2006, 02:36 PM
and? you blame him for having good talent around him? you could say that about Bush or Leinart too. they have each other as well as the best o-line in the nation, which makes it alot easier to be successful.

Young has NFL type arm strengh, very good leadership, very good size (prototypical for an NFL QB), good scrambling ability, and is very accurate. why are you talking bad about him? because of some bogus test? because of his throwing motion? because you think he can't read a defense? His throwing motion isn't a problem, NFL scouts have said if anything isn't wrong than don't fix it and they say his throwing motion isn't a problem. he has proven to read defenses, just go over some tape. you guys need to get your facts straight about Young, until than don't bother talking

Well if we need to get our facts straight...... Young doesnt have NFL type arm strength.... I will agree to leadership, agree with size, agree with scrambling ability... when it comes to the other aspects of dropping back to pass and throwing the ball, come on, you cant seriously think he is one of the better QBs coming out of college at doing that? His mechanics WILL hurt him in the pros where there are all tall defenders on the Dline that will bat down his passes. He hasnt shown in college he can read a defense...... anyone can go through 2 progressions then take off running. Also show me where one reputable scout has said his throwing motion is fine.....

I have my facts straight on him. I watched every single UT game this year with my officemate..... he was a 2000 grad. He watched all PSU games with me and I watched the UT games with him. He is a great GREAT college QB, but come on, you cant seriously think he is going to have that success in the NFL as a passing QB?

nick1
02-28-2006, 03:57 PM
That was a sarcastic response to SpeedRush's post mocking all the people who ONLY judge Young based on the Rose Bowl alone.... it wasnt directed at you or else I would have quoted you when I posted it.

Texas ran a dumbed down playbook this year. Since you watched so many Texas games this year, how many times did you see Vince Young under center? Also, how many times a game did Texas run the play where Young was in the shotgun, faked the handoff to the RB, faked the pass, then immediately took off running...... Also, as stated many times here on the board, how many basic passing plays were called where Young looked at one, then maybe two options, then took off running. When those are the majority of your playcalls, thats running a dumbed down playbook.

You call it using Young's strength knowing he is a good runner in college..... I call it running a dumbed down playbook because VY is a running QB and hiding his weaknesses..... either way, the playbook he ran in college in NO WAY shape or form is going to help him in the NFL. It can only hurt him. Thats one of the reasons I think he even came out in college. His hype was at its peak after the national championship game. What would playing another year in a dumbed down running first offense do to help him prepare for the NFL? Absolutely nothing.
your right but lots of QBs run the shotgun the majority of their college career, that doesn't mean passing is his weakness. look at the numbers, he had a very good completion percentage and a good TD:INT ratio not good enough? probably not, there is no changing opinions. just do one thing for me, be here while Young dominates the NFL

Philter25
02-28-2006, 04:04 PM
look at the numbers, I stopped reading right there. :lol: 2 words. Jason White. It really disturbs me how many people think numbers in college mean automatic translation to the NFL...... I was a lil boy once and thought the same thing.......



just do one thing for me, be here while Young dominates the NFL :lol: Dominates eh? Ill remember this.

nick1
02-28-2006, 04:09 PM
Well if we need to get our facts straight...... Young doesnt have NFL type arm strength.... I will agree to leadership, agree with size, agree with scrambling ability... when it comes to the other aspects of dropping back to pass and throwing the ball, come on, you cant seriously think he is one of the better QBs coming out of college at doing that? His mechanics WILL hurt him in the pros where there are all tall defenders on the Dline that will bat down his passes. He hasnt shown in college he can read a defense...... anyone can go through 2 progressions then take off running. Also show me where one reputable scout has said his throwing motion is fine.....

I have my facts straight on him. I watched every single UT game this year with my officemate..... he was a 2000 grad. He watched all PSU games with me and I watched the UT games with him. He is a great GREAT college QB, but come on, you cant seriously think he is going to have that success in the NFL as a passing QB?
people said the same thing about Rivers but now nobody questions his delivery, here is the quote about Young's delivery although knowing you it's not good enough


From what Young said Friday, teams are tellin him, "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" when it comes to the issue of Young's sidearm delivery. "Sitting down with some of the coaches now, hearing the different things they've been saying about my throwing motion, there's nothing really wrong with it. The media, that's who keeps talking about the throwing motion. There's nothing wrong with the throwing motion."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2344648

nick1
02-28-2006, 04:11 PM
I stopped reading right there. :lol: 2 words. Jason White. It really disturbs me how many people think numbers in college mean automatic translation to the NFL...... I was a lil boy once and thought the same thing.......

:lol: Dominates eh? Ill remember this.
no they don't mean much but when you question his passing ability you have to look at what his completion percentage was and it was very good, I'm starting to tire from this subject but write it down that me and Alex told you first that Young would be a good player in the NFL and I'll remember you when it happens, he may need a couple years so don't jump to a conclusion too early in his career

Philter25
02-28-2006, 04:16 PM
no they don't mean much but when you question his passing ability you have to look at what his completion percentage was and it was very good, I'm starting to tire from this subject but write it down that me and Alex told you first that Young would be a good player in the NFL and I'll remember you when it happens

Absolutely agree. It seems I hear the same 5 things from the VY huggers and then the same 30 things from all the VY-againsters. Ill remember you and Alex next year when Vince isnt "dominating" in the NFL..... lucky we cant put quotes in our sigs anymore.

[quote=nick1]
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2344648[/quote (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2344648[/quote)]

Thats a great quote.... from YOUNG on HIS throwing mechanics. You really think the guy is going to pick out flaws at himself? As I said, I would enjoy to read a SCOUT actually say that about his mechanics.

nick1
02-28-2006, 04:18 PM
Absolutely agree. It seems I hear the same 5 things from the VY huggers and then the same 30 things from all the VY-againsters. Ill remember you and Alex next year when Vince isnt "dominating" in the NFL..... lucky we cant put quotes in our sigs anymore.

Thats a great quote.... from YOUNG on HIS throwing mechanics. You really think the guy is going to pick out flaws at himself? As I said, I would enjoy to read a SCOUT actually say that about his mechanics.
why can't we quote in our sig. anymore? starting too many fights? :lol:

nick1
02-28-2006, 04:27 PM
here is what a scout has to say, to sum it up he says

positives - Young has good arm strengh but not great. has a quick release, is a very rare athlete, has top intangibles and is a gamer who comes up big in the clutch

negatives - has a weird throwing motion which would need to be reworked, raw passer who needs to learn to read defenses better, and makes some poor throws

he also says Young is a elite prospect with a very high risk/reward factor

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/vinceyoung.html

I'll leave it at that

Philter25
02-28-2006, 05:09 PM
here is what a scout has to say, to sum it up he says

positives - Young has good arm strengh but not great. has a quick release, is a very rare athlete, has top intangibles and is a gamer who comes up big in the clutch

negatives - has a weird throwing motion which would need to be reworked, raw passer who needs to learn to read defenses better, and makes some poor throws

he also says Young is a elite prospect with a very high risk/reward factor

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/vinceyoung.html (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/vinceyoung.html)

I'll leave it at that

I will too, because your post on what the scout said contradicted what you said earlier. :lol:


Young has NFL type arm strengh,

Thats not what you posted the scout said.


because of his throwing motion? because you think he can't read a defense? His throwing motion isn't a problem, NFL scouts have said if anything isn't wrong than don't fix it and they say his throwing motion isn't a problem.

Thats not what you posted the scout said.



he has proven to read defenses, just go over some tape. you guys need to get your facts straight about Young, until than don't bother talking


And for the win, thats not what you posted the scout said AAAAAAAAAAAND the big slap in the face is you told US to stop talking til we get our facts straight.

You just :0wned: yourself.

And then of course to compare what I said to what YOU posted the scout said:


Well if we need to get our facts straight...... Young doesnt have NFL type arm strength.... I will agree to leadership, agree with size, agree with scrambling ability... when it comes to the other aspects of dropping back to pass and throwing the ball, come on, you cant seriously think he is one of the better QBs coming out of college at doing that? His mechanics WILL hurt him in the pros where there are all tall defenders on the Dline that will bat down his passes. He hasnt shown in college he can read a defense...... anyone can go through 2 progressions then take off running. Also show me where one reputable scout has said his throwing motion is fine.....


So Nick, who needs to stop talking until they get their VY facts straight?

Aquanator B1000
02-28-2006, 05:27 PM
:lol: So a trained crap-slinging monkey can answer the first 20, and then the more educated monkeys who poop in the corner can answer rest?

Come on, you are defending Young like you are his agent...... hmmmmm...... maybe it all makes sense now. :wink:

The guy is dumb as a barn door......

Forget the stupid wonderlic. Did you see him in the rose bowls?

Alex44
02-28-2006, 05:31 PM
Absolutely agree. It seems I hear the same 5 things from the VY huggers and then the same 30 things from all the VY-againsters. Ill remember you and Alex next year when Vince isnt "dominating" in the NFL..... lucky we cant put quotes in our sigs anymore.

[quote=nick1]
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2344648[/quote (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2344648[/quote)]

Thats a great quote.... from YOUNG on HIS throwing mechanics. You really think the guy is going to pick out flaws at himself? As I said, I would enjoy to read a SCOUT actually say that about his mechanics.


So your giving him one year to pick up the NFL game and then lableing him a bust? :lol: Gotta give a guy at least 3 years unless he totally blows up

Vince Young has a stronger arm than Matt Leinart, and a little less arm than Cutler, but he has far more accuracy than people give him credit for, he almost always puts it where only his guy can get it, of course he makes mistakes everyone does, but overall he should be a very good player

Philter25
02-28-2006, 05:36 PM
So your giving him one year to pick up the NFL game and then lableing him a bust? :lol: Gotta give a guy at least 3 years unless he totally blows up

I will give him 2 years in a system before I label him a bust. Its normally a 2 year evaluation period for QBs in a new system. However all the hype Nick1 is giving him, it sounds like he is the next Manning..... but at the end of next year when he doesnt do anything, you bet im going to rub it in. :wink:

Alex44
02-28-2006, 05:41 PM
I will give him 2 years in a system before I label him a bust. Its normally a 2 year evaluation period for QBs in a new system. However all the hype Nick1 is giving him, it sounds like he is the next Manning..... but at the end of next year when he doesnt do anything, you bet im going to rub it in. :wink:

I expect him to sit on the bench a season anyway, to refine all his skills, which would be whats best of him

For Rookies its usually a 3 year thing before the bust talk should start

First Year- Learn the system, get a little game experience

Second Year- Go into the year knowing the system Gain Confidence in you and your team, learn to read more complex defense

Third Year- Put it all together and go out and play

Philter25
02-28-2006, 05:42 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2012/01/young3ce-1.jpg

Alex44
02-28-2006, 05:46 PM
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/5655/young3ce.jpg

Even I will admit thats pretty funny :lol:

But totally untrue he's not a stupid person

If anything there should be one with Matt leinart passed out drunk in the locker room, then he could wake up and go 'Oh crap we have a game today?'

I hope Leinart goes to New Orleans I wanna see how much trouble he gets into partying

Roman529
02-28-2006, 05:47 PM
Dan Marino almost dropped out of the first round when he was picked do to drug rumors, questions about his arm and delivery, and other BS...I am sure Young will drop too but I still think he will be a nice pickup for someone.

Motion
02-28-2006, 05:48 PM
Even I will admit thats pretty funny :lol:

But totally untrue he's not a stupid person

If anything there should be one with Matt leinart passed out drunk in the locker room, then he could wake up and go 'Oh crap we have a game today?'

I hope Leinart goes to New Orleans I wanna see how much trouble he gets into partying

:rolleyes2 I'm sure Young never partied in college. Come on now!

Alex44
02-28-2006, 05:49 PM
:rolleyes2 I'm sure Young never partied in college. Come on now!


But he was smart enough never to get caught :D

Or have drunken pictures of him taken :D

Pennington's Rocket Arm
02-28-2006, 05:50 PM
that's because young wasn't in the spotlight 24/7 like leinart. and he's not nearly as attractive as leinart.

Alex44
02-28-2006, 05:52 PM
that's because young wasn't in the spotlight 24/7 like leinart. and he's not nearly as attractive as leinart.

Im not a girl I cant really judge that

To me Leinart looks like a Money/Wolf Boy with the facial hair

Im not gonna say either of them is good or bad looking

:lol:

dolfan72734me
02-28-2006, 05:54 PM
I will say this.
IF he can learn to take snaps under center, and
IF he can learn to read a complex NFL defense, and
IF he can learn an offense and playbook that is dictionary thick,
then he might well turn out to be a damn good QB.

Alex44
02-28-2006, 05:58 PM
Oh come on, a man can tell when another man has good looks, and it wouldn't mean you are gay.:lol:


I know but I just dont think like that, I mean they arent ugly or anything but I just cant think ''Wow that guy is good looking" :lol:

I can just say ugly or not ugly

dolfan72734me
02-28-2006, 06:01 PM
EDITED: Oops, I double posted.

Alex44
02-28-2006, 06:01 PM
Oh now, you don't have to be a girl to say if a man has good looks or not, and it wouldn't be homosexual either.:)

:lol: I know its not gay its just not the way I think

dolfan72734me
02-28-2006, 06:03 PM
:lol:
You know I'm playing with ya.

Alex44
02-28-2006, 06:03 PM
:lol:
You know I'm playing with ya.

Yeah I know :lol:

nick1
02-28-2006, 06:07 PM
I will too, because your post on what the scout said contradicted what you said earlier. :lol:



Thats not what you posted the scout said.



Thats not what you posted the scout said.



And for the win, thats not what you posted the scout said AAAAAAAAAAAND the big slap in the face is you told US to stop talking til we get our facts straight.

You just :0wned: yourself.

And then of course to compare what I said to what YOU posted the scout said:



So Nick, who needs to stop talking until they get their VY facts straight?
just because he doesn't have great arm strengh doesn't mean he doesn't have NFL type strengh, your twisting that whole thing. I have my facts straight, I just wanted to be fair and give a NFL scouts opinon on him. that doesn't mean I agree with him. they have been wrong before ya know, just look up Barry Sanders scouting report

Philter25
02-28-2006, 07:17 PM
:lol: Whatever you say Nick. I asked you for a scouts opinion to prove what I was saying wrong, and you posted a scouts opinion that verified EVERYTHING I posted and went against EVERYTHING you posted. :sidelol:

I guess you choose B) Elephant also. :sidelol:

Motion
02-28-2006, 10:31 PM
I guess you choose B) Elephant also. :sidelol:

Wait........That wasn't the right answer??? :confused:

nick1
03-01-2006, 11:46 AM
Wait........That wasn't the right answer??? :confused:
If I remember right it had the moon, an elephant, a nut and a kettle. so it would obviously be the moon

Pennington's Rocket Arm
03-01-2006, 11:55 AM
If I remember right it had the moon, an elephant, a nut and a kettle. so it would obviously be the moon
wow.

Motion
03-01-2006, 12:10 PM
If I remember right it had the moon, an elephant, a nut and a kettle. so it would obviously be the moon


No wonder you like Vince so much.

:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

nick1
03-01-2006, 12:12 PM
No wonder you like Vince so much.

:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:
are you saying I'm dumb too :fire:



j/k I don't care, I not good at agruements but just watch Young he will be a good player