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Rixon
03-07-2006, 09:16 PM
Anyone following the WBC???
what do you think about it????

Dubfire
03-07-2006, 10:27 PM
Anyone following the WBC???
what do you think about it????

LOVE IT!!!


I'll be watching every game!!!

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 01:55 AM
Personally I didn't like the idea. I thought it was dumb. However I watched both games today and it was great to see baseball back. As I predicted earlier, I thought the Latin American teams would be pumped up and play hard and it looked like I was right. I mean Miguel Tejeda dropped down a bunt single so he could get on base for Pujols and Ortiz. Clearly the two Latin teams that played today showed that they care about the WBC even if most of the fans don't.

I was very disappointed about Team America. Yeah they won (very good pitching, like I said earlier in WBC threads good pitching will win) however the only one that looked like he cared was Willis and he was on the behind. I was shocked at how bad Jeter looked in the field. Of course I did enjoy (and felt bad and a little embarrassed) for Arod getting booed out of Arizona.

I still don't really care about the WBC however I will watch the games if I'm not busy (I won't go out of my way to stay home to watch a game) because it is baseball and I love the sport and miss it.

woody1351
03-08-2006, 02:57 AM
i watched part of the game and i was still rooting aginst all the cubs players. i enjoyed zambrano getting shelled. i didnt watch any of the US game bc i was busy, but i might some other time.

HysterikiLL
03-08-2006, 03:27 AM
Zzzzz

Roman529
03-08-2006, 04:44 AM
Why the hell isn't CUBA playing??? :confused:

Dubfire
03-08-2006, 08:00 AM
Why the hell isn't CUBA playing??? :confused:

They play Panama today.

phunwin
03-08-2006, 08:57 AM
I think it's a neat idea, but I wish they wouldn't do it in spring training. I'd rather see them take 2 weeks off around the all-star game every 4 years or something. This is Classic Bud Selig: good idea, terrible execution.

Rixon
03-08-2006, 03:13 PM
Cuba plays today. I cant wait to see how they play against the worlds best.
Being a cuban/american I hope they do well.

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 03:21 PM
I think it's a neat idea, but I wish they wouldn't do it in spring training. I'd rather see them take 2 weeks off around the all-star game every 4 years or something. This is Classic Bud Selig: good idea, terrible execution.

In my opinion there's no good time to do the WBC. Would you really want the WBC in July and stop the season for 2 weeks. I mean what if the Mets are in the playoff race and Pedro hurts himself and is out for the year and the Mets miss the playoffs by a game (hey it could happen if they play the WBC in March or November too).

Plus I think it would hurt players who aren't on teams because they'll be sitting around for 2 weeks.

Rixon
03-08-2006, 03:39 PM
theres no perfect time. they could get hurt in spring trainning too.

Its every 4 years so i dont think its that bad.

Roman529
03-08-2006, 05:42 PM
Cuba plays today. I cant wait to see how they play against the worlds best.
Being a cuban/american I hope they do well.

Anyone have the final score? I think it was 2-1 Cuba early on.

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 05:55 PM
6 to 6 in the 10th. Cuba was up 2 in the 9th and gave up 2 runs on a bloop single and HBP.

Roman529
03-08-2006, 06:18 PM
6 to 6 in the 10th. Cuba was up 2 in the 9th and gave up 2 runs on a bloop single and HBP.

Look for several Cuban players to defect after the game today. My favorite Cuban is Tony Montana...."Say Hello to My Little Friend." :lol:

miamikid92
03-08-2006, 06:18 PM
wow... this is sad, U.S.A getting shut out by a single A pitcher..

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 06:25 PM
Cub won in 11 innings 8 to 6. Good game.

unifiedtheory
03-08-2006, 06:31 PM
Canada is kicking the hell out of the U.S. right now...

I flipped it on out of curiosity and said "holy ****!".

I'm not big on the whole thing because of when it is held (a lot of these guys are not in shape yet) and the pitching rules (I afgree with them BTW...I don't even want Huston Street to throw one damn pitch....LOL).

Rocky Raccoon
03-08-2006, 06:37 PM
how many losses to be eliminated?

EDIT: Street warming up in the pen UT :chuckle:

unifiedtheory
03-08-2006, 06:56 PM
how many losses to be eliminated?

EDIT: Street warming up in the pen UT :chuckle:

I saw that and I am not watching....:tantrum::boohoo:

Dubfire
03-08-2006, 07:35 PM
6 to 6 in the 10th. Cuba was up 2 in the 9th and gave up 2 runs on a bloop single and HBP.


Cuba prevailed 8-6.

Roman529
03-08-2006, 07:46 PM
Canada is kicking the hell out of the U.S. right now...

I flipped it on out of curiosity and said "holy ****!".

I'm not big on the whole thing because of when it is held (a lot of these guys are not in shape yet) and the pitching rules (I afgree with them BTW...I don't even want Huston Street to throw one damn pitch....LOL).

Not so soon my Canuck friend North of the Border....it is 8-6 now in the 8th and a Canadian guy just got thrown out at the plate. Barry "Big Ego" Bonds now says he might want to pay for Team USA if they make the 2nd Round...do us all a big favor Barry and just stay away. :tantrum:

Rixon
03-08-2006, 07:49 PM
Look for several Cuban players to defect after the game today. My favorite Cuban is Tony Montana...."Say Hello to My Little Friend." :lol:



What position does he play ?

Rixon
03-08-2006, 08:05 PM
middle of the 9th
US 6
Canada 8

good game!!!!

Rixon
03-08-2006, 08:12 PM
OH Canada!!!!!!!

Dubfire
03-08-2006, 08:14 PM
WOW!!

This WBC is going to be more interesting than I thought.

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 09:41 PM
how many losses to be eliminated?

EDIT: Street warming up in the pen UT :chuckle:

They take the top 2 teams from each pool depending on wins and losses. So right now in the Canada/US/Mexico/S.Africa pool Canada is already moving on. IF the US beats South Africa they'll move on too.

Actually I think even if Mexico beats Canada and if the US loses to South Africa the U.S. would make it to the next round automatically because eventhough they're tied with Mexicon with wins and losses the US beat them head to head.

wpgfishfan
03-08-2006, 10:33 PM
Man that was a huge upset for the Canucks today. Who was our centerfielder with those catches?

Roman529
03-08-2006, 11:28 PM
I can't understand why the Rocket did not pitch today against Canada....South Africa should be a gimme, so they should have gone with Clemens today. I believe you have to win two games to advance so USA should be ok.

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 11:30 PM
I can't understand why the Rocket did not pitch today against Canada....South Africa should be a gimme, so they should have gone with Clemens today. I believe you have to win two games to advance so USA should be ok.

I thought it was the two best teams from each pool. Either way the U.S. is pretty much a lock for the 2nd round.

djfresh47
03-09-2006, 04:13 PM
I thought it was the two best teams from each pool. Either way the U.S. is pretty much a lock for the 2nd round.

I don't know the tie-breakers but I think it is possible that if USA beats S. Africa and Mexico beats Canada that the US still would not get in. Freddie Garcia 3 1/3 pitched and 7 strikeouts for Venezula yesterday is a pretty impressive stat-line.

FaninPatsyLand
03-09-2006, 04:58 PM
I don't know the tie-breakers but I think it is possible that if USA beats S. Africa and Mexico beats Canada that the US still would not get in. Freddie Garcia 3 1/3 pitched and 7 strikeouts for Venezula yesterday is a pretty impressive stat-line.

You are absolutely right. I'm not completely sure on the tiebreakers myself, but I do know that if Mexico beats Canada today by a certain run differential then the U.S. is eliminated no matter what they do tonight against South Africa.

Rixon
03-09-2006, 05:12 PM
That would be so hillarious

PressCoverage
03-09-2006, 05:30 PM
pathetic, really

Rixon
03-09-2006, 06:02 PM
pathetic, really

yup

Ray Finkle
03-09-2006, 06:10 PM
You are absolutely right. I'm not completely sure on the tiebreakers myself, but I do know that if Mexico beats Canada today by a certain run differential then the U.S. is eliminated no matter what they do tonight against South Africa.

I think if 2 teams have the same win/loss record at the end of pool play then they play a game against each other with the winner moving on and loser going home. I could be wrong though.

FaninPatsyLand
03-09-2006, 06:15 PM
I think if 2 teams have the same win/loss record at the end of pool play then they play a game against each other with the winner moving on and loser going home. I could be wrong though.

Nah man, I read it on ESPN's bottom line while I was watching the Big East Tournament. If Mexico beats Canada by a certain run differential tonight then the U.S. is eliminated.

How? I have no idea about the logic behind it...

Ray Finkle
03-09-2006, 06:51 PM
Nah man, I read it on ESPN's bottom line while I was watching the Big East Tournament. If Mexico beats Canada by a certain run differential tonight then the U.S. is eliminated.

How? I have no idea about the logic behind it...

Ok thanks for clearing that up. The whole WBC doesn't make sense but hey it's Bud's baby. :lol:

Phins28
03-09-2006, 08:11 PM
Puerto Rico is going to win the WBC

wpgfishfan
03-09-2006, 08:28 PM
If Mexico wins 2-0 or 2-1 or 1-0 then the USA is out. The tiebreaker is runs allowed versus teams that you are tied with

Dubfire
03-09-2006, 08:59 PM
If Mexico wins 2-0 or 2-1 or 1-0 then the USA is out. The tiebreaker is runs allowed versus teams that you are tied with

This would be a huge disappointment for team USA.

Dubfire
03-09-2006, 09:00 PM
Puerto Rico is going to win the WBC


I hope you are right!!!

Rixon
03-09-2006, 09:32 PM
WOW!!!!

Mexico 4
Canada 0
in the 1st inn.

Phins28
03-09-2006, 09:43 PM
WOW!!!!

Mexico 4
Canada 0
in the 1st inn.

:eek: wow

Rixon
03-09-2006, 09:47 PM
Puerto Rico is going to win the WBC


I wish i could go to tomorrows game
PR vs Cuba

are you going?

Phins28
03-09-2006, 10:01 PM
NO :boohoo:sold out in 2 hours last week

Rixon
03-09-2006, 10:09 PM
:jawdrop:

Amars
03-10-2006, 12:46 AM
Just got my tickets for Semi - Final 12:00pm game at Petco. I hope it Cuba vs. Domincan Republic.

wpgfishfan
03-10-2006, 12:56 AM
Canada is done unless the USA chokes:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

Amars
03-10-2006, 01:01 AM
I thought the US is out already?

Ray Finkle
03-10-2006, 01:10 AM
No if the US beats South Africa then the US and Mexico are in and Canada is out.

bullseyeguy
03-10-2006, 01:39 AM
Wow this is more confusing than a rubiks cube...

Rocky Raccoon
03-10-2006, 01:43 AM
No if the US beats South Africa then the US and Mexico are in and Canada is out.

the WBC is stupid...Canada beat the U.S. and therefore should move on.

If there wasn't the satisfaction of a possible A-Rod choke...I wouldn't watch it at all.

PressCoverage
03-10-2006, 01:51 AM
We dont' deserve to advance, losing to goofy Canada? Bringing in 40+ Al Leiter to put out Dontrelle's fire? Why is Al Leiter even on this team? Do we even WANT to win it?

Personally, what dooms this team if you ask me? Too many Yankees. :tongue:

MikeO
03-10-2006, 02:00 AM
We dont' deserve to advance, losing to goofy Canada? Bringing in 40+ Al Leiter to put out Dontrelle's fire? Why is Al Leiter even on this team? Do we even WANT to win it?

Personally, what dooms this team if you ask me? Too many Yankees. :tongue:

Probably because Al Leiter is the only one without a pitch count!!

Phins28
03-10-2006, 10:37 PM
Puerto Rico destroying Cuba 7-1

PressCoverage
03-10-2006, 11:09 PM
What channel is covering this thing?

MikeO
03-11-2006, 03:26 AM
What channel is covering this thing?

I think ESPN starts with it next week after the conference tourney's end.

King Felix
03-11-2006, 04:00 AM
usa canada rematch for goin on the next round

PHINATIC13
03-11-2006, 12:47 PM
It's never iffy if it's Griffey.........it was good to see Jr. pop a couple of 3-run shots despite playing S.Africa in 17-0 a** kicking.Sure hope Ken stays healthy he's been hurt for so long(over the years) I forgot just what a pretty swing he has.

tylerdolphin
03-11-2006, 09:08 PM
It's never iffy if it's Griffey.........it was good to see Jr. pop a couple of 3-run shots despite playing S.Africa in 17-0 a** kicking.Sure hope Ken stays healthy he's been hurt for so long(over the years) I forgot just what a pretty swing he has.
Its a shame really. Griffey would be considered a top hitter in history without the injuries.

Rixon
03-12-2006, 04:14 PM
Its a shame really. Griffey would be considered a top hitter in history without the injuries.

I beleive half of his injuries were fake.

PressCoverage
03-12-2006, 06:04 PM
nice double play, jeter... yanks shining through already...

PressCoverage
03-12-2006, 07:24 PM
another clutch at-bat by A-Rob... swing and a miss!

PressCoverage
03-12-2006, 07:44 PM
WOW...

Japan just got totally jobbed on that call... They had the go-ahead run taken off the board by an appeal of an appeal to third on a tagged up sac. fly... 3B ump called it safe, but the crew got together and ruled him out for leaving early.... Replay showed no such thing at all... Japan refused to take the field for several minutes in the bottom half of the eighth.

I believe the Bush administration had something to do with rigging this game. :tongue:

PressCoverage
03-12-2006, 07:47 PM
looks like Damon has already caught Yankee fever.... K zone in the clutch!

Rixon
03-12-2006, 08:00 PM
whats that necklace some of the japan players are wearing?

PressCoverage
03-12-2006, 08:17 PM
Well here we are.... bases loaded, two out, tie game.

A-Rob's chance to shine. Surely he'll do something HERE...

PressCoverage
03-12-2006, 08:19 PM
whadya know... the league MVP muscles a single through the middle, and we win a controversial game to begin round 2...

King Felix
03-12-2006, 10:20 PM
A-ROD, A-ROD is great, ever since his days back in seattle.

NJFINSFAN1
03-13-2006, 09:05 AM
A-ROD, A-ROD is great, ever since his days back in seattle.

Yeah, a clutch hit just like last fall, oooppps, I forgot, he didn't get any then?:rolleyes:

Rixon
03-13-2006, 11:42 AM
Yeah, a clutch hit just like last fall, oooppps, I forgot, he didn't get any then?:rolleyes:

I beleive he had too much pressure to make the big hit last year.
you could see it in his eyes in every at bat. I told him chill out bud and play the game just like in the regular season. Lets see if he took my advise this year.

PressCoverage
03-14-2006, 04:36 AM
Japan got robbed.

Rixon
03-14-2006, 11:58 AM
Looks like all the oriental teams are solid as hell
making the USA team look more like the NBA "dream" team

I agree Japan got robbed

nick1
03-14-2006, 12:20 PM
sucks that Korea beat the US but I think the republic will win this whole thing, they have all of the good hitters

Rixon
03-15-2006, 01:14 AM
man venezuela was good great pitching
they wanted it bad

PressCoverage
03-15-2006, 05:22 AM
just an update, in case you missed it... in our loss to Korea...

MVP A-Rod's line: 0 for 5, 2 strikeouts, 6 men left on base...

BAMAPHIN 22
03-15-2006, 10:46 AM
just an update, in case you missed it... in our loss to Korea...

MVP A-Rod's line: 0 for 5, 2 strikeouts, 6 men left on base...


Those stats are horrible!!! :boohoo: The American team now has a lot of pressure on them... They are in a must win situation or go home being embarrass. :fire:

BAMAPHIN 22
03-15-2006, 11:41 AM
The U.S. team could be eliminated from the World Baseball Classic if Japan loses to South Korea tonight.

Under the complicated tiebreaker system, the U.S. would be out if Japan wins in a nine-inning game and scores seven or fewer runs.

South Korea can earn a berth in the semifinals by beating Japan. If that happens, the United States would also make it by beating Mexico on Thursday. :fire:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060315/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbi_classic;_ylt=Av40RQ2cui6G7LxC4QuHBcas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

PressCoverage
03-15-2006, 02:18 PM
they don't deserve to advance... i'll say it again...

Ray Finkle
03-15-2006, 07:45 PM
they don't deserve to advance... i'll say it again...

No they don't. You have to laugh at the lack of energy in the U.S. dugout compared to the other teams in the WBC. It's like all the players are going through the motions and just doing it because Bud begged them.

You can tell that all the foreign teams are really playing to win and this really means something to them. Hey I think it all along that would happen. Plus the foreign fans are really into it. It was great watching the DR and Venzeula play and watching the fans and all the passion in the dugouts.

FaninPatsyLand
03-15-2006, 08:00 PM
just an update, in case you missed it... in our loss to Korea...

MVP A-Rod's line: 0 for 5, 2 strikeouts, 6 men left on base...

Sounds like a must win game.. :lol:

Rixon
03-15-2006, 08:37 PM
Hes worried too much about his image
Is it me or is he the dullest super star athlete that has ever existed

I mean his interviews are ridiculous

Ray Finkle
03-15-2006, 09:12 PM
Hes worried too much about his image
Is it me or is he the dullest super star athlete that has ever existed

I mean his interviews are ridiculous

Arod reminds me of "that kid" in school that wanted to be liked by everyone but just ended up always annoying people to no end and getting crapped on as a result.

I actually feel bad for Arod. He's a great talent but no matter what he does he can never be the "good guy" in the eyes of fans, even fans of his team.

djfresh47
03-15-2006, 11:15 PM
Arod reminds me of "that kid" in school that wanted to be liked by everyone but just ended up always annoying people to no end and getting crapped on as a result.

I actually feel bad for Arod. He's a great talent but no matter what he does he can never be the "good guy" in the eyes of fans, even fans of his team.

Everybody brings up the contract that A-Rod signd and then he goes to a team that alot of fans don't like because they outspend everybody. Some guys just can't handle the pressure and as great as A-Rod is untill he comes through in the clutch everybody is going to label him a choke artist. If Damon misses anytime I can't wait to hear George go off and talk about how his noodle-armed CF got hurt because of the WBC. For what it is worth, Griffey I think has been outstanding.

Ray Finkle
03-15-2006, 11:50 PM
If Damon misses anytime I can't wait to hear George go off and talk about how his noodle-armed CF got hurt because of the WBC. For what it is worth, Griffey I think has been outstanding.

That's the excuse George is going to use however that's might not the case. Rumors have been all over the NY papers and radio that Damon had been secretly going to doctors all winter about his shoulder. It's believed that his shoulder problem is still from last July/August when he dove back to 2nd base in Fenway and hurt it.

Rixon
03-16-2006, 12:06 AM
CUBA LIBRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tough win against a tough PR team at home.

this is what baseball is all about man

miamikid92
03-16-2006, 02:04 AM
U.S.A

MikeO
03-16-2006, 02:35 AM
Arod reminds me of "that kid" in school that wanted to be liked by everyone but just ended up always annoying people to no end and getting crapped on as a result.

I actually feel bad for Arod. He's a great talent but no matter what he does he can never be the "good guy" in the eyes of fans, even fans of his team.

When your #1 at anything people will always hate you. When AROD was in Seattle and Texas he was sorta hidden and sheltered from this. I think going to NY threw him into a shock. This being his 3rd year in NY now.....he will get even more used to it.

And I laugh at people who knock the guy every chance they get, cause if he was traded to THEIR favorite team (whatever team that is) tomorrow, you would be throwing parades in the streets and be all over him. The guy IS the best all around player in the game today. His numbers and production speak for themselves. You wanna say he isn't clutch and all of that nonsense......hey whatever. I'll take him on my team anyday of the week. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool or just blind to the facts!

MikeO
03-16-2006, 02:37 AM
Hes worried too much about his image
Is it me or is he the dullest super star athlete that has ever existed

I mean his interviews are ridiculous

If he was T.O. or Moss in his interviews you would call him a "cancer". He is well spoken and doesn't rock the boat and now he's boring.

No matter what he does he will get knocked. Either way he can't win. Pete Samparas was dull and boring, AND one of the if not the greatest tennis player of all time. It's all about the numbers.

iDolFan
03-16-2006, 11:54 AM
Does anyone know who makes up the Korean team?? Is North Korea, or South Korea?, or a mixture of both?? Any info will be appreciated :wink:

Rixon
03-16-2006, 12:11 PM
If he was T.O. or Moss in his interviews you would call him a "cancer". He is well spoken and doesn't rock the boat and now he's boring.

No matter what he does he will get knocked. Either way he can't win. Pete Samparas was dull and boring, AND one of the if not the greatest tennis player of all time. It's all about the numbers.

hew:sleep:

Ray Finkle
03-16-2006, 03:02 PM
When your #1 at anything people will always hate you. When AROD was in Seattle and Texas he was sorta hidden and sheltered from this. I think going to NY threw him into a shock. This being his 3rd year in NY now.....he will get even more used to it.

And I laugh at people who knock the guy every chance they get, cause if he was traded to THEIR favorite team (whatever team that is) tomorrow, you would be throwing parades in the streets and be all over him. The guy IS the best all around player in the game today. His numbers and production speak for themselves. You wanna say he isn't clutch and all of that nonsense......hey whatever. I'll take him on my team anyday of the week. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool or just blind to the facts!

No one is debating whether Arod is a great talent or not, because he is. He is one of the best if not the best all around player in the game no question. However I know know how you can say that him not being clutch is nonsense especially since you see him play everyday. He never shows up when the game is on the line. I know you'll throw out the home run against Schilling and his 10 RBI, 4 Home Run game but just look at his stat line in October. 2 for 15 with one extra base hit and 0 RBIs. As great as he is he's not clutch at this point of his career. Neither was Bonds until recently, so Arod has the chance to break out of it. Being the great talent he is, I'm sure he will sooner or later.

BAMAPHIN 22
03-16-2006, 03:23 PM
Korea beats Japan, clinches semis; US still alive



Team USA still has a chance to win the World Baseball Classic thanks to Korea.



Now, it's up to Roger Clemens (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3340) and his teammates to take advantage of the opportunity.



Chan Ho Park (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5187) and four relievers combined to pitch a six-hitter, Jong Beom Lee hit a two-run double in the eighth, and Korea beat Japan 2-1 Wednesday night to clinch a berth in the semifinals of the inaugural WBC.



The Americans, who would have been eliminated with a low-scoring win by Japan, can wrap up the other semifinal berth in Group One on Thursday with Clemens on the mound by beating Mexico.



"I'll tell you what, I don't know that I've ever been as nervous watching a baseball game as I was in this one," Team USA manager Buck Martinez said. "What a great game that was. It's a big relief, obviously. We were all very anxious for this game tonight. Japan is a very good baseball team.



"It was a well-played game, both teams showed tremendous hearts. There were great defensive plays and key pitching."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2006/news/story?page=260317909_WBC_06

PressCoverage
03-16-2006, 10:51 PM
Tremendous talent, sure. But he's a pretty boy who doesn't get his hands dirty. There's a reason Varitek gave him a mitt full of leather in 2004. It's because he epitomizes the me-first athlete of today, despite saying all the right things.

He's not only a non-clutch hitter, but he also goes completely brain dead in the field at crucial times (see the past two playoffs for examples).

It's not possible to bring cohesion to a clubhouse when you're making $250 million.

Prediction: He'll never be a world champion.

Nappy Roots
03-17-2006, 12:22 AM
No one is debating whether Arod is a great talent or not, because he is. He is one of the best if not the best all around player in the game no question. However I know know how you can say that him not being clutch is nonsense especially since you see him play everyday. He never shows up when the game is on the line. I know you'll throw out the home run against Schilling and his 10 RBI, 4 Home Run game but just look at his stat line in October. 2 for 15 with one extra base hit and 0 RBIs. As great as he is he's not clutch at this point of his career. Neither was Bonds until recently, so Arod has the chance to break out of it. Being the great talent he is, I'm sure he will sooner or later.


how many chances has he had? hes been in the playoffs all of what? 3 times?

btw, i agree with your accessment so far. but like you said, he has a chance to break that, and i predict he will. also, during the season he was really clutch, he hit a lot of HRs that tied or put the yankees up last year.

Nappy Roots
03-17-2006, 12:22 AM
Tremendous talent, sure. But he's a pretty boy who doesn't get his hands dirty. There's a reason Varitek gave him a mitt full of leather in 2004. It's because he epitomizes the me-first athlete of today, despite saying all the right things.

He's not only a non-clutch hitter, but he also goes completely brain dead in the field at crucial times (see the past two playoffs for examples).

It's not possible to bring cohesion to a clubhouse when you're making $250 million.

Prediction: He'll never be a world champion.


ARod is a pretty boy, whos afraid to get his hands dirty?

:sidelol:

wow.

Prime Time
03-17-2006, 12:30 AM
Us Eliminated!

Nappy Roots
03-17-2006, 12:31 AM
thats a damn shame....oh well. i love this tourny though.

finsmx
03-17-2006, 12:32 AM
:eek:

:mexico: México!! México!! México!! :mexico:

Too bad we couldn't beat one of those 2 asian teams :(

PHINATIC13
03-17-2006, 12:34 AM
:nono:We (USA) suck!

MikeO
03-17-2006, 01:44 AM
No one is debating whether Arod is a great talent or not, because he is. He is one of the best if not the best all around player in the game no question. However I know know how you can say that him not being clutch is nonsense especially since you see him play everyday. He never shows up when the game is on the line. I know you'll throw out the home run against Schilling and his 10 RBI, 4 Home Run game but just look at his stat line in October. 2 for 15 with one extra base hit and 0 RBIs. As great as he is he's not clutch at this point of his career. Neither was Bonds until recently, so Arod has the chance to break out of it. Being the great talent he is, I'm sure he will sooner or later.

When your hitting 50 home runs and driving in 140 your clutch! He isn't the reason this team has lost in the playoffs recently. Pitching has been!

Rixon
03-17-2006, 01:47 AM
I know this is going to sound harsh

but USA sports lack the heart other countries have.
It was like they were playing like they had to and not like they wanted to represent their country. i dont know maybe their making too much dam money.

Given To Fly
03-17-2006, 02:11 AM
:eek:

:mexico: México!! México!! México!! :mexico:

Too bad we couldn't beat one of those 2 asian teams :(

:1st::clap::mdfin::dolphins:

It's weird that we can beat the US in baseball but not in soccer.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 02:26 AM
I know this is going to sound harsh

but USA sports lack the heart other countries have.
It was like they were playing like they had to and not like they wanted to represent their country. i dont know maybe their making too much dam money.

1) It's the money

2) Olympics and WBC will always come 2nd compared to NBA and MLB. These guys get their bread buttered by NBA and MLB, they will never go all out for Olympics or WBC. They will go half speed or half assed and there is nothing to change that.

3) We as a country are arrogant. We assume we are the best at every sport. Times have changed. We can't just walk through every other country in sports anymore.

djfresh47
03-17-2006, 02:58 AM
When your hitting 50 home runs and driving in 140 your clutch! He isn't the reason this team has lost in the playoffs recently. Pitching has been!

A-Rod seems to choke in big moments but the guy who I believe to be the smartest man in baseball, Billy Beane doesn't believe anybody is clutch and I tend to agree. Beane didn't pick the team and he puts together guys who are more successful during a long season but too many guys dropped out. I think the WBC has been a success but guys who aren't US born didn't wanna play. I wanted to see the US win but not at the expense of Buehrle who is one of the lead leaders in innings pitched. I think A.J. Pierzynski should've been picked for the team, he isn't well liked in the league but I think he's a "winner" and would've been a better choice ahead of Barrett.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 03:21 AM
A-Rod seems to choke in big moments but the guy who I believe to be the smartest man in baseball, Billy Beane doesn't believe anybody is clutch and I tend to agree. Beane didn't pick the team and he puts together guys who are more successful during a long season but too many guys dropped out. I think the WBC has been a success but guys who aren't US born didn't wanna play. I wanted to see the US win but not at the expense of Buehrle who is one of the lead leaders in innings pitched. I think A.J. Pierzynski should've been picked for the team, he isn't well liked in the league but I think he's a "winner" and would've been a better choice ahead of Barrett.

A-Rod was on some bad Seattle teams that made the playoffs. He was clutch then since he was all they had pretty much. Baeball is too difficult a sport to throw a tag on someone of not being clutch. It's stupid beyond belief. A guy (anyone not just Arod) can hit over .300, hit 40-50 home runs, drive in 130+ RBI's and because he doesn't get a base hit in the 8th inning of a game he isn't clutch????? Please.

Bottom line is this, if ARod was traded to YOUR (not you, but Joe Fan in general) favorite team tomorrow (whoever your favorite team is in general), YOUR opinion of him would change overnight. Your not going to run him out of town and your not going to say he isn't clutch. You will welcome him with open arms. He is the BEST ballplayer out there today.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 03:23 AM
Oh, and the ONLY way the WBC is a success is if they play the games in NOVEMBER!!!!!!!!!

Playing them in March when these guys won't go all out and risk injury and pitchers are on pitch counts makes these games a joke! Play the games in November after the World Series. Guys might be worn down and beaten up, but at least they will go 100% with no fear! They might actually try and care!

djfresh47
03-17-2006, 03:32 AM
Oh, and the ONLY way the WBC is a success is if they play the games in NOVEMBER!!!!!!!!!

Playing them in March when these guys won't go all out and risk injury and pitchers are on pitch counts makes these games a joke! Play the games in November after the World Series. Guys might be worn down and beaten up, but at least they will go 100% with no fear! They might actually try and care!

That would be the best option for the Americans but still guys would have to shake off rust and I still think alot of pitchers wouldn't of gone. It was a success but still isn't the biggest thing in baseball for Americans which is the season which is why Bud put the pitch count in which I think was a good idea. If Buehrle would've gone who pitches a ton of innings and would've struggled late in the year I would've said the WBC has alot to do with it. Maybe guys who aren't signed to MLB contracts should be able to pitch as much as possible but does that create and unfair advantage?

djfresh47
03-17-2006, 03:44 AM
A-Rod was on some bad Seattle teams that made the playoffs. He was clutch then since he was all they had pretty much. Baeball is too difficult a sport to throw a tag on someone of not being clutch. It's stupid beyond belief. A guy (anyone not just Arod) can hit over .300, hit 40-50 home runs, drive in 130+ RBI's and because he doesn't get a base hit in the 8th inning of a game he isn't clutch????? Please.

Bottom line is this, if ARod was traded to YOUR (not you, but Joe Fan in general) favorite team tomorrow (whoever your favorite team is in general), YOUR opinion of him would change overnight. Your not going to run him out of town and your not going to say he isn't clutch. You will welcome him with open arms. He is the BEST ballplayer out there today.

I don't think one man makes a team and pitching wins out IMO. Like I said before i'm with Billy Beane and that is that nobody is really clutch they perform to there average more often than not. I would love to see A-Rod play SS instead of Juan Uribe and think he's a much better player than Joe Crede, but I think it comes down to how a team is constructed. To get off the WBC an onto the player who would've put USA probably in the round of 4, how nervous did Bud seem when he was asked questions about Bonds? I would have to think Bud has a great PR guy and would've loved to just talk about the WBC but for a moment Bud was speechless and Miller kept ranting.

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 09:57 AM
Bottom line is this, if ARod was traded to YOUR (not you, but Joe Fan in general) favorite team tomorrow (whoever your favorite team is in general), YOUR opinion of him would change overnight. Your not going to run him out of town and your not going to say he isn't clutch. You will welcome him with open arms. He is the BEST ballplayer out there today.

Yeah, I'm sure that's the case.... Just look at the way Culpepper is being warmly received by 100% of the fans here...

I was ecstatic that the Red Sox' deal for A-Rod fell through... ECSTATIC... So, please don't speak for everyone... In fact, don't speak for anyone...

MikeO
03-17-2006, 09:58 AM
Yeah, I'm sure that's the case.... Just look at the way Culpepper is being warmly received by 100% of the fans here...

I was ecstatic that the Red Sox' deal for A-Rod fell through... ECSTATIC... So, please don't speak for everyone... In fact, don't speak for anyone...

every post you put up you bash AROD, go look at your post history from the past 2 weeks. You clearly have some issues with him!

And Culpepper isn't the best player in the league. Trade Peyton Manning here and EVERY Dolphins fan would be happy!! That is a bad comparison on your part.

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 10:13 AM
Because I take pleasure in helping keep accountable A-Rob's clutch futility doesn't mean I have any "issues" with him... Especially if it untucks Yankees fans' shirts.... But good try!!!!

I think he's a hotdog and a divisive clubhouse presense, even if unintentional... I'm sorry if that hurts your Yankee feelings, but I take great pleasure in watching him fail...

As for the football analogy, the point you are trying to make is that everyone would love to have the superstar... That is totally untrue as an absolute ...

As for Manning, you're wrong once again... Not only is his disproportionate salary hurting the Colts badly, but he has yet to perform in the clutch either... I would NOT want Peyton Manning on this team at his current salary, no, and I'm quite sure a lot of people would feel the same.... So once again, please don't speak for everyone... In fact, don't speak for anyone...

When is it ok to just be a $100 millionaire? Why does a player have to be a $200 millionaire?

Alex44
03-17-2006, 10:26 AM
Put it this way

Im glad A-rod is/was on the team

But everytime he stepped to the plate and we were behingd I was thinking 'Oh well its up to someone else'

We didnt deserve to win the wbc, but I hope we do next time

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 10:54 AM
Take away that farce of a game against South Africa, A-Rob's numbers went like this:

4-for-17, 0 runs scored, 2 RBIs, 2 walks, 6 strikeouts, 10 LOB...

Jeter?

5-for-17, 1 run scored, 0 RBIs, 1 walk, 1 strikeout, 5 LOB...

Damon 1-for-4 with a triple...

Just too many Yankees...

MikeO
03-17-2006, 12:04 PM
Because I take pleasure in helping keep accountable A-Rob's clutch futility doesn't mean I have any "issues" with him... Especially if it untucks Yankees fans' shirts.... But good try!!!!

I think he's a hotdog and a divisive clubhouse presense, even if unintentional... I'm sorry if that hurts your Yankee feelings, but I take great pleasure in watching him fail...

As for the football analogy, the point you are trying to make is that everyone would love to have the superstar... That is totally untrue as an absolute ...

As for Manning, you're wrong once again... Not only is his disproportionate salary hurting the Colts badly, but he has yet to perform in the clutch either... I would NOT want Peyton Manning on this team at his current salary, no, and I'm quite sure a lot of people would feel the same.... So once again, please don't speak for everyone... In fact, don't speak for anyone...

When is it ok to just be a $100 millionaire? Why does a player have to be a $200 millionaire?

So you don't want Peyton Manning on your football team and you don't want AROD on your baseball team. :sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: Ok, nuff said. You just showed the world your sports knowledge! :sidelol:

MikeO
03-17-2006, 12:06 PM
Take away that farce of a game against South Africa, A-Rob's numbers went like this:

4-for-17, 0 runs scored, 2 RBIs, 2 walks, 6 strikeouts, 10 LOB...

Jeter?

5-for-17, 1 run scored, 0 RBIs, 1 walk, 1 strikeout, 5 LOB...

Damon 1-for-4 with a triple...

Just too many Yankees...

NO, you don't have issues when it comes to the Yankees! :sidelol: :sidelol: And its the "PLAYERS" fault that a team wants to pay them alot of money??? SO, if I offered you $200 mill you would say no......I only need $100 mill! :wink:

And Johnny Damon hasn't played 1 game for the Yankees yet! lol......dude, you need to join an "AA" type of club for Yankee haters. You have serious issues!

And I like how you can just change ARODs numbers to fit YOUR argument! :rolleyes2 Yeah, that's fair. Take away 400 of Marino's TD passes and he only has 20 for his career. He was an f'n terrible QB!:sidelol: :sidelol:

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 12:13 PM
Smileys aren't supporting your argument, no matter how many you provide...

The South Africa game (one game) captures my point completely... He pads his stats against inferior teams and weak pitching in blowout games... Then, when the heat is on, he a far far less productive hitter...

An "issue" would indicate that the Yankees vex me somehow... They don't... I take great pleasure in watching their annual $200 million dollar failures...

As for A-Rod and Peyton Manning, again... Show me their championship. ... You're right, I wouldn't want them on my team if i had a choice, in this fantasy scenario you propose. ... Give me Tom Brady, or David Ortiz, and you can have your overpaid choke artists... Mmm-kay?

MikeO
03-17-2006, 12:18 PM
Smileys aren't supporting your argument...

The South Africa game (one game) captures my point completely... He pads his stats against inferior teams and weak pitching in blowout games... Then, when the heat is on, he a far far less productive hitter...

An "issue" would indicate that the Yankees vex me somehow... They don't... I take great pleasure in watching their annual $200 million dollar failures...

As for A-Rod and Peyton Manning, again... Show me their championship. ... You're right, I wouldn't want them on my team if i had a choice, in this fantasy scenario you propose. ... Give me Tom Brady, or David Ortiz, and you can have your overpaid choke artists... Mmm-kay?

You just labeld Johnny Damon as a "choke artist" in another thread. Didn't he win the Red Sox a ring??? Yet now he is in NY he is a "choke artist" because of what he did in the WBC! :sidelol:

And the Yankees are failures? Let's see.......won 4 rings in 5 years. In the playoffs every year. Win the division every year for 10 years straight......yeah, I will take that kind of failure every year. It is unrealistic to expect a team to win the World Series EVERY season! I don't care what the payroll is.

I understand you hate the Yanks and thats cool and all. But when you post things like you wouldn't want AROD on your team (or Manning on the fins) you lose ALL CREDIBILITY! If you are a fan of a team you want your team to have the best players (who aren't murderes or killers or something). You take your Yankee hate to the 1,000,000,000th degree and you come off looking like a fool. I don't like the Red Sox and Schilling, I think he is a pompus ***. But if I could get him on the Yanks tomorrow, I would take him!!!!! Because he is an upgrade and a good player! :shakeno: I'm not gonna take the Red Sox hate to such a degree that I would say something stupid like......"I don't want Schilling on my team"

MikeO
03-17-2006, 12:21 PM
And Tom Brady is a good QB and a winner and all. But he is a product of the system and playing for GREAT coaches. Put Brady in Houston, Minnesota, or Cleveland and he ain't winning no rings.

GreenMonster
03-17-2006, 12:31 PM
And Tom Brady is a good QB and a winner and all. But he is a product of the system and playing for GREAT coaches. Put Brady in Houston, Minnesota, or Cleveland and he ain't winning no rings.

Neither does Peyton Manning what's your point.. Every QB is a product of the system.. Peyton has an All-pro RB, and 2 All-pro WR, if he was in Houston he would have Dominick Davis and a Andre Johnson and and awful line.. You think Kurt Warners great seasons had to do with the fact the he is a great QB or the fact he had Marshall Faulk, Issac Bruce, Tory Holt, Proehl and others..

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 12:35 PM
You just labeld Johnny Damon as a "choke artist" in another thread. Didn't he win the Red Sox a ring??? Yet now he is in NY he is a "choke artist" because of what he did in the WBC! :sidelol:

And the Yankees are failures? Let's see.......won 4 rings in 5 years. In the playoffs every year. Win the division every year for 10 years straight......yeah, I will take that kind of failure every year. It is unrealistic to expect a team to win the World Series EVERY season! I don't care what the payroll is.

I understand you hate the Yanks and thats cool and all. But when you post things like you wouldn't want AROD on your team (or Manning on the fins) you lose ALL CREDIBILITY! If you are a fan of a team you want your team to have the best players (who aren't murderes or killers or something). You take your Yankee hate to the 1,000,000,000th degree and you come off looking like a fool. I don't like the Red Sox and Schilling, I think he is a pompus ***. But if I could get him on the Yanks tomorrow, I would take him!!!!! Because he is an upgrade and a good player! :shakeno: I'm not gonna take the Red Sox hate to such a degree that I would say something stupid like......"I don't want Schilling on my team"

Of course you would.... Because Schilling is a winner... I'd take Jeter on the Red Sox in a heartbeat... So, whoops, there goes your argument...

It's terrific to harp back to your successes of the late 90s, when you upped the ante on player payroll. But really, that's not at all what I'm referring to here. I'm talking about the near 1 billion dollars your hero owner has pissed away since his last title. Who looks like a fool?

As for Damon, I never said he was a choke artist, I merely said he want 1-for-4 in the WBC... Now you're making things up... However, now that he's with New York, and his attention-craving woman has equal spotlight and he's with all the other Rolls Royces in the clubhouse, here's another prediction: He'll never win another title either.

Face it: Your favorite team has no cohesion, no youth and no patience. History tells me that's a bad, bad precedent.

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 12:38 PM
And Tom Brady is a good QB and a winner and all. But he is a product of the system and playing for GREAT coaches. Put Brady in Houston, Minnesota, or Cleveland and he ain't winning no rings.

Yes, i'm sure Brady is just a product of the system.

Give me a team full of unselfish, talented men like Brady, and give you a team full of stat padders, and mine will whoop yours 9 out of 10.

Rooting for the Colts were you in the 03 and 04 playoffs? I made a killing on both games. Brady's a better quarterback. Ortiz is a better hitter.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 12:39 PM
Yes, i'm sure Brady is just a product of the system.

Give me a team full of unselfish, talented men like Brady, and give you a team full of stat padders, and mine will whoop yours 9 out of 10.

Rooting for the Colts were you in the 03 and 04 playoffs? I made a killing on both games. Brady's a better quarterback. Ortiz is a better hitter.

Brady isn't a better QB. He had a better defense and better coaches.

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 12:42 PM
He's a better quarterback. Try, try as you might.

There were throws to be made by Manning in the playoffs the last 7 seasons, and he hasn't made them. All the way back to the Titans loss in '99. Those throws had nothing to do with the Colts defense.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 12:43 PM
You (among others) are so caught up on payroll like the money is coming out of your pocket. I will never get it.

And since the Sox are #2 in payroll when they don't win (like last year) are they overpaid choke artists as well? And Schilling doesn't split a clubhouse?? LOL, I guess you missed it last year when the team was fighting over whether he should be the closer or be starting. yeah, cohesion! lol

MikeO
03-17-2006, 12:45 PM
He's a better quarterback. Try, try as you might.

There were throws to be made by Manning in the playoffs the last 7 seasons, and he hasn't made them. All the way back to the Titans loss in '99. Those throws had nothing to do with the Colts defense.

In 99' he was in his 2nd year, give the guy a break! If you think Brady is a "better" QB than Manning your nuts. It's Marino-Montana all over again. Put Dan on those SF teams and he will have all hte rings and Montana would have nothing.

Put Manning on the Pats, and he has all the rings. Brady isn't a bad QB by any means, but Manning is better. And if your starting an expansion franchsie tomorrow, everyone with a brain would take Manning over Brady!

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 12:46 PM
Ah yes, of course... Point to the second-ranked payroll team to deflect the collossal failures of your own...

But we're not really talking about the Red Sox here, now are we? We're talking about your favorite team, and their negative effect on the w.b.c.

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 12:50 PM
In 99' he was in his 2nd year, give the guy a break! If you think Brady is a "better" QB than Manning your nuts. It's Marino-Montana all over again. Put Dan on those SF teams and he will have all hte rings and Montana would have nothing.

Put Manning on the Pats, and he has all the rings. Brady isn't a bad QB by any means, but Manning is better. And if your starting an expansion franchsie tomorrow, everyone with a brain would take Manning over Brady!

Well gosh, Marino did awfully well in HIS second year. Why not the guy you just made a comparison to?

I guess I must be without a brain, because that decision is a no-brainer to me... I select Tom Brady.

Your Marino-Montana parallel is ridiculous, because Marino's contract wasn't holding the rest of the team back. Regardless, I do feel Montana was a slightlly better quarterback. Sorry. Marino was a better pure thrower, but Montana the better quarterback.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 01:24 PM
Ah yes, of course... Point to the second-ranked payroll team to deflect the collossal failures of your own...

But we're not really talking about the Red Sox here, now are we? We're talking about your favorite team, and their negative effect on the w.b.c.

Yeah, I guess you never heard of the word DOUBLE-STANDARD! :sidelol:

MikeO
03-17-2006, 01:28 PM
Well gosh, Marino did awfully well in HIS second year. Why not the guy you just made a comparison to?

I guess I must be without a brain, because that decision is a no-brainer to me... I select Tom Brady.

Your Marino-Montana parallel is ridiculous, because Marino's contract wasn't holding the rest of the team back. Regardless, I do feel Montana was a slightlly better quarterback. Sorry. Marino was a better pure thrower, but Montana the better quarterback.

Marino didn't walk into a 3-13 or 1-15 team like Manning did. The Phins were in the Super Bowl in 82 and in 84 when he started they were still a top team in the league!

Manning's contract isn't holding the Colts back. Bad draft picks on defense and poor coaching is. What is it with you and money? I have never seen anyone so resentful of people who make money. Every post with you is about Arods contract, Yankees payroll, how much Manning makes. My god, get over the money aspect. All athletes make big money. Teams spend lots of money. You are consumed with money!

Ray Finkle
03-17-2006, 02:17 PM
When your hitting 50 home runs and driving in 140 your clutch! He isn't the reason this team has lost in the playoffs recently. Pitching has been!

I guess you're blocking out every Game 4, 5, and 6 of the 2004 ALCS. Winning run on 3rd base with 2 outs in extra innings and Timlin gets Arod to strike out in Game 5. Or what about Game 6 and the famous slap? How about Game 5 of the 2005 ALDS, when he grounded into a double play ending the Yankee season? No Arod isn't the only reason why the Yankees haven't won anything but when you're considered one of the best players in the game he should be putting up numbers in the playoffs.

I honestly don't know how you can sit there with a straight face and say Arod is clutch. But hey if you have confidence in him to get the winning hit more power to you but you're one in the minority ofYankee fans that think Arod is clutch.

Ray Finkle
03-17-2006, 02:24 PM
And since the Sox are #2 in payroll when they don't win (like last year) are they overpaid choke artists as well? And Schilling doesn't split a clubhouse?? LOL, I guess you missed it last year when the team was fighting over whether he should be the closer or be starting. yeah, cohesion! lol

Actually Mike, if you remember correctly there wasn't a fight about Schilling being closer, in fact Johnny Damon was the only one that said Schilling shouldn't be the closer and that Timlin should be. There was no fight in the clubhouse about it, it was just the good old Boston media trying to turn a non story into the next big disaster in Red Sox Nation (also see the "Manny Ramirez refusing to play" incident).

Schilling isn't a model citizen by any means.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 02:48 PM
I guess you're blocking out every Game 4, 5, and 6 of the 2004 ALCS. Winning run on 3rd base with 2 outs in extra innings and Timlin gets Arod to strike out in Game 5. Or what about Game 6 and the famous slap? How about Game 5 of the 2005 ALDS, when he grounded into a double play ending the Yankee season? No Arod isn't the only reason why the Yankees haven't won anything but when you're considered one of the best players in the game he should be putting up numbers in the playoffs.

I honestly don't know how you can sit there with a straight face and say Arod is clutch. But hey if you have confidence in him to get the winning hit more power to you but you're one in the minority ofYankee fans that think Arod is clutch.

I never said AROD was clutch :shakeno: . What I am saying is he is the best player in baseball today. Period. And any fan of any team wouldn't complain if he was traded to their team today! (Example: if your a Dodgers fan and they go and trade for Arod tomorrow, you think Dodgers fans are gonna get hung up on the fact he isnt CLUTCH??!?!?!?!) lol, yeah right!

And to be pissed at him because some stupid owner in Texas gave him a stupid contract is also a dumb stance to take. If an owner wants to pay him $250 mill over the life of a contract, he has to take it. ANYONE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE IT. So to hold his contract against him is a joke. And he cant give money back, HE WANTED TO WHEN A TRADE TO BOSTON WAS IN PLACE AND THE UNION WOULDN'T LET HIM!:shakeno:

So if I guy hits 50 home runs in innings 1-6 but only 3 in innings 7-9, he isn't clutch?? That is stupid beyond belief. I don't think anyone in baseball is "clutch". In a sport where you fail 7 out of 10 times and hit .300 and you are considered great, it is impossible to label anyone as "CLUTCH". Sure, every 50 years or so someone like Ortiz goes on a run for a year or two and hits every big hit in big games. OK, Ortiz is clutch. Nobody is arguing that. But now give me the list of MLB players today that are clutch and back them all up with a resume....

MikeO
03-17-2006, 02:50 PM
Actually Mike, if you remember correctly there wasn't a fight about Schilling being closer, in fact Johnny Damon was the only one that said Schilling shouldn't be the closer and that Timlin should be. There was no fight in the clubhouse about it, it was just the good old Boston media trying to turn a non story into the next big disaster in Red Sox Nation (also see the "Manny Ramirez refusing to play" incident).

Schilling isn't a model citizen by any means.

Damon had teamates who supported his stance according to many reports..

The entire point was AROD never split a clubhouse like someone else claimed. Just because he makes a lot of money he doesn't split a clubhouse. Christ everyone in that clubhouse makes a ton of money! Neither has Schilling if what you say is correct.

PressCoverage
03-17-2006, 03:28 PM
And any fan of any team wouldn't complain if he was traded to their team today!

Once again... stick to speaking for Yankee fans... Not everyone....

Because I wouldn't want him. For the same money, I would prefer 3 or 4 other All-Stars or solid players, combined.

But then, money's not an object as Yankees can attest to.

Ray Finkle
03-17-2006, 03:49 PM
I never said AROD was clutch :shakeno: . What I am saying is he is the best player in baseball today. Period. And any fan of any team wouldn't complain if he was traded to their team today! (Example: if your a Dodgers fan and they go and trade for Arod tomorrow, you think Dodgers fans are gonna get hung up on the fact he isnt CLUTCH??!?!?!?!) lol, yeah right!

And to be pissed at him because some stupid owner in Texas gave him a stupid contract is also a dumb stance to take. If an owner wants to pay him $250 mill over the life of a contract, he has to take it. ANYONE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE IT. So to hold his contract against him is a joke. And he cant give money back, HE WANTED TO WHEN A TRADE TO BOSTON WAS IN PLACE AND THE UNION WOULDN'T LET HIM!:shakeno:

So if I guy hits 50 home runs in innings 1-6 but only 3 in innings 7-9, he isn't clutch?? That is stupid beyond belief. I don't think anyone in baseball is "clutch". In a sport where you fail 7 out of 10 times and hit .300 and you are considered great, it is impossible to label anyone as "CLUTCH". Sure, every 50 years or so someone like Ortiz goes on a run for a year or two and hits every big hit in big games. OK, Ortiz is clutch. Nobody is arguing that. But now give me the list of MLB players today that are clutch and back them all up with a resume....

Mike go back and read what you wrote, you said "When your hitting 50 home runs and driving in 140 your clutch!" So you did say Arod is clutch (it's post #101 on page 7 in case you want to go back and read what you wrote) :shakeno:

Who is pissed that Hicks gave Arod a huge contract? Who said they wouldn't want Arod on their team? You're throwing this in my face like I said it. Go back and read my posts I never once blamed Hicks or Arod for the contract nor did I say I wouldn't want Arod on my team. What I did say and judging by your response to my post you obviously didn't read I said since Arod is one of the best baseball players in the game he should be putting up big numbers in the playoffs but he's not. The guy disappears in October and in big situations, I don't see how you can argue or defend that especially since you watch him play everyday. It's ok to be a great player and not clutch. Roger Clemens is a great pitcher however I wouldn't give him the ball with the game on the line.

Players that I feel are clutch just off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few:
David Ortiz, Barry Bonds, Derek Jeter, Albert Pujols, Vlad Guerrero, Mo Rivera, Curt Schilling... Let me know who you disagree with and I'll give you the resume.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 04:02 PM
Players that I feel are clutch just off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few:
David Ortiz, Barry Bonds, Derek Jeter, Albert Pujols, Vlad Guerrero, Mo Rivera, Curt Schilling... Let me know who you disagree with and I'll give you the resume.

I want the resume for Pujouls, Vlad, and Bonds. Bonds has a 20 year career and except for his world series year he has done nothing in the clutch. And "clutch" just isn't POSTSEASON!

Ray Finkle
03-17-2006, 04:24 PM
I want the resume for Pujouls, Vlad, and Bonds. Bonds has a 20 year career and except for his world series year he has done nothing in the clutch. And "clutch" just isn't POSTSEASON!

Pujols- In 2005 playoffs went 12 for 29 with 7 runs scored 9 RBI 2 HR,which including a game winning 3 run homer off of Brad Lidge in the top of the 9th inning with 2 outs. I'm not going to bother looking up his other playoff stats, but I'm sure it's the same, I know for a fact he hit over .300 against the Red Sox in the World Series and I'm pretty sure he won the 2004 NLCS MVP.

Vlad- carrying his team into the post season in 2004 in the last month of the season, winning an MVP award. He hit .371 with 10 home runs and 23 RBIs in September of that year. He WAS the reason why the Angels made the playoffs. Hitting a game tying grand slam off of Mike Timlin in the 8th inning of Game 3 in the 2004 ALDS. In 2005 he again carried the Angels into the playoffs stopping a hot Oakland A's team he hit in August .340 with 7 HR and 24 RBIs, and in September hit .30 with 6 HR and 19 RBIs.

Bonds- I admit this is probably my weakest arguement of being clutch. Bonds has never been clutch until 2002 World Series and playoffs. He shut up all the critics with 7 home runs. Considering that teams pitch around him since 2001 and when he does get a pitch to hit he hits it hard and far, I'd consider him clutch. But like I said it's my weakest arguement.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 05:53 PM
Look Im not gonna change anyones opinion here but I think people are letting their personal distaste for him cloud their judgement. Not to mention they forget his days in SEATTLE!!!!

Here are his playoff stats........

In 1997 he hit .312 in the playoffs. 1 home run. 1 double. OB% of 874. Only 16 at bats that year in hte playoffs.

In 2000 he hit .308 in the 1st round and .409 in the ALCS with 2 HR's and 5 RBI's. Slugh % of 773 in ALCS. OB% was .780.

In 2004 he hit .421 in the 1st round and had an ob% of .476 .258 in the ALCS. Combined in both he had 3 home runs, 8 RBI's and 2 stolen bases. Slug % of 737 in 1st round.

In the 5 games last year he was awful vs LAA. But you guys make it seem like he does nothing in the postseason. He carried Seattle to a game 7 in the ALCS in 2000. He carried damn near all of those Seattle teams. He was clutch then! In NY he has had 1 good playoff series out of 3. Granted you want more, but as I said before......if he was traded to your team tomorrow you would be throwing rose pedals in the street and be happy as hell. Nobody would be complaining.

ALCS vs Boston, he wasn't the reason they lost and last year he wasn't great but no yankees were. . But his career POSTSEASON stats are (31 games)...

.305 avg. 6 home runs. 16 RBI's. 4 SB's. OB% of 393. 9 doubles. Slugh % .534 OB% .393 and has only hit into 2 double-plays in 31 postseason games.......those aren't awful numbers I'm sorry

Ray Finkle
03-17-2006, 06:34 PM
No, he doesn't have awful numbers and honestly I didn't know what his stats were in Seattle in the playoffs. Like you said he was sheltered there on the West Coast and out of the spotlight. Kind of like Vlad and Pujols are.

I don't have a dislike for Arod, I root against him because he's on my rival team, but even that doesn't cloud my judgement. I respect him and I think he's a hell of a player, one of the best, but I just don't think when the game is on the line he can deliver and I'm not the only person who thinks that. Even some Yankee fans on this site, like nyjunc have said he's not clutch and that he does nothing when the pressure is on. Come to think of it you're actually one of the few Yankee fans who I've heard defend him about being clutch (just to let you know I live in Yankee Land so I know ton of Yankee fans). And no I don't think there is anything wrong with you defending him. My question to you is if the game is on the line and the Yankees need a big hit would you trust Arod to deliver? He's no Jeter or Bernie Williams. I bet that if you listed the guys on the Yankees that you wanted up at the plate with the game on the line Arod would be towards the bottom.

Arod always gets picked on since he joined the Yankees, most of it really is unfair however he has done nothing to shut people up about it. The guy won the MVP Award and the only thing Yankee fans can said about him is that he sucked in the playoffs both offensively and defensively and their last memory of him was hitting into the season ending double play with the winning run at the plate. Bonds is another player who was never clutch either but he shut people up for good in 2002. Arod has to go on a run like Bonds did (I'm not saying hit 7 HRs but he needs to deliver some big time hits when it matters) in the 2002 playoffs for people to get off his back about being clutch. As good as Arod is, he probably will shut people up about being clutch, but however in this point in his career he's not there yet. Another perfect example is Sammy Sosa, he put up big numbers too but no one has ever said he was clutch and like Arod he always disappeared in big spots.

MikeO
03-17-2006, 06:43 PM
No, he doesn't have awful numbers and honestly I didn't know what his stats were in Seattle in the playoffs. Like you said he was sheltered there on the West Coast and out of the spotlight. Kind of like Vlad and Pujols are.

I don't have a dislike for Arod, I root against him because he's on my rival team, but even that doesn't cloud my judgement. I respect him and I think he's a hell of a player, one of the best, but I just don't think when the game is on the line he can deliver and I'm not the only person who thinks that. Even some Yankee fans on this site, like nyjunc have said he's not clutch and that he does nothing when the pressure is on. Come to think of it you're actually one of the few Yankee fans who I've heard defend him about being clutch (just to let you know I live in Yankee Land so I know ton of Yankee fans). And no I don't think there is anything wrong with you defending him. My question to you is if the game is on the line and the Yankees need a big hit would you trust Arod to deliver? He's no Jeter or Bernie Williams. I bet that if you listed the guys on the Yankees that you wanted up at the plate with the game on the line Arod would be towards the bottom.

Arod always gets picked on since he joined the Yankees, most of it really is unfair however he has done nothing to shut people up about it. The guy won the MVP Award and the only thing Yankee fans can said about him is that he sucked in the playoffs both offensively and defensively and their last memory of him was hitting into the season ending double play with the winning run at the plate. Bonds is another player who was never clutch either but he shut people up for good in 2002. Arod has to go on a run like Bonds did (I'm not saying hit 7 HRs but he needs to deliver some big time hits when it matters) in the 2002 playoffs for people to get off his back about being clutch. As good as Arod is, he probably will shut people up about being clutch, but however in this point in his career he's not there yet. Another perfect example is Sammy Sosa, he put up big numbers too but no one has ever said he was clutch and like Arod he always disappeared in big spots.

But baseball isn't football or basketball. Where whether your "clutch" you have 5-10 opportunities to make a play at the end of big games. In baseball you can fail 7 out of 10 times and be considered great and will get maybe 1 big at bat per year where you can be considered "clutch". Take away Ortiz, who else in MLB is consistently clutch?? The answer is nobody! And he was CLUTCH in Seattle cause his playoff numbers there are f'n great and he took a bad team all the way to a Game 7 of an ALCS! You can't just cherry pick what "clutch" numbers you want to use and ignore. You can't just ignore his Seattle numbers and just use Yankee numebrs. Doesn't work that way.

My whole beef is when people (not you Ray Finkle) say they wouldn't want Peyton Manning on the Fins or ARod on their favorite baseball team. That's pure BS on all levels. If YOUR favorite team (Fins and whoever in baseball) has the chance to get the BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE, YOU WANT HIM! It's talk like that where people lose all credibility when it comes to talking sports!

Ray Finkle
03-17-2006, 07:00 PM
But baseball isn't football or basketball. Where whether your "clutch" you have 5-10 opportunities to make a play at the end of big games. In baseball you can fail 7 out of 10 times and be considered great and will get maybe 1 big at bat per year where you can be considered "clutch". Take away Ortiz, who else in MLB is consistently clutch?? The answer is nobody! And he was CLUTCH in Seattle cause his playoff numbers there are f'n great and he took a bad team all the way to a Game 7 of an ALCS! You can't just cherry pick what "clutch" numbers you want to use and ignore. You can't just ignore his Seattle numbers and just use Yankee numebrs. Doesn't work that way.

My whole beef is when people (not you Ray Finkle) say they wouldn't want Peyton Manning on the Fins or ARod on their favorite baseball team. That's pure BS on all levels. If YOUR favorite team (Fins and whoever in baseball) has the chance to get the BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE, YOU WANT HIM! It's talk like that where people lose all credibility when it comes to talking sports!

I agree that baseball isn't like football or basketball.

I'm also not cherry picking stats and just using his Yankee numbers, I admitted that he had pretty good playoff numbers in Seattle however I still wouldn't consider him clutch. Why? Simply because what has he done to earn the title of being clutch? He hasn't done anything/meaningful in the playoffs for almost 5 years. The pressure of NY is clearly in Arod's head, whether it's fair or unfair. Right now in this point of his career he's not clutch because he hasn't gotten those big hits like Ortiz, Jeter or even Bernie Williams have gotten consistently.

It's just like saying that Bonds is now clutch because recently he's getting the big hits when they mattered. No one remembers what he did in 1990, 1991 or 1995 playoffs. Because he shut everyone up in 2002. A player can snap the anti-clutch stamp like Bonds did.

Rixon
03-19-2006, 09:19 AM
guys i quit drinkin