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BAMAPHIN 22
03-08-2006, 12:25 PM
Beginning in 1998 with injections in his buttocks of Winstrol, a powerful steroid, Barry Bonds (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/3918) took a wide array of performance-enhancing drugs over at least five seasons in a massive doping regimen that grew more sophisticated as the years went on, according to Game of Shadows, a book written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters at the forefront of reporting on the BALCO steroid distribution scandal.

(Click here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/03/06/growth0313/index.html) for an excerpt from Shadows, whichdetails Bonds' steroid use. It is also available in the March 13 issue of Sports Illustrated, which hits newsstands beginning on Wednesday. Shadows (http://www.gameofshadows.com/) will be published on March 27.)

The authors, Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, describe in sometimes day-to-day, drug-by-drug detail how often and how deeply Bonds engaged in the persistent doping. For instance, the authors write that by 2001, when Bonds broke Mark McGwire's single-season home-run record (70) by belting 73, Bonds was using two designer steroids referred to as the Cream and the Clear, as well as insulin, human growth hormone, testosterone decanoate (a fast-acting steroid known as Mexican beans) and trenbolone, a steroid created to improve the muscle quality of cattle.

BALCO tracked Bonds' usage with doping calendars and folders -- detailing drugs, quantities, intervals and Bonds' testosterone levels -- that wound up in the hands of federal agents upon their Sept. 3, 2003 raid of the Burlingame, Calif., business.

Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html

MikeO
03-08-2006, 12:57 PM
Stop the presses. Barry Bonds did steroids!

Bottom line, MLB didn't have a steroid policy. So it comes down to nothing.

This is WATERGATE! The federal g'vment couldn't bring Bonds down, so they handed everything over to some reporters, who now wrote a book and will try and destroy him this way.

tucker
03-08-2006, 01:07 PM
Stop the presses. Barry Bonds did steroids!

Bottom line, MLB didn't have a steroid policy. So it comes down to nothing.

This is WATERGATE! The federal g'vment couldn't bring Bonds down, so they handed everything over to some reporters, who now wrote a book and will try and destroy him this way.
so how did these writers get all this info that nobody else was able to get? i dont know how credible the book is...did they go talk to his suppliers which i doubt..how did they know what steroids he used? how did they know that he started off with winstrol first and then deca? how do they know who injected him b/c anderson sure didnt tell anyone

MikeO
03-08-2006, 02:09 PM
so how did these writers get all this info that nobody else was able to get? i dont know how credible the book is...did they go talk to his suppliers which i doubt..how did they know what steroids he used? how did they know that he started off with winstrol first and then deca? how do they know who injected him b/c anderson sure didnt tell anyone

Im guessing people in the federal g'ment leaked this info to them and handed over a bunch of stuff. The grand jury testimony from everyone is sealed and can never be let out. This is just a way around that.

NJFINSFAN1
03-08-2006, 02:18 PM
Bonds has done this to himself, I do not one bit feel any sorrow for him. He is a nasty SOB which helps all these people want to go after him.

I hope he does not break Aarons record!

Roman529
03-08-2006, 02:46 PM
It's time for the Commissioner of Baseball (Bud) to end this farce and ban Bonds before the season starts. What he did is just as bad as what Pete Rose did. Cheating is cheating. They also should wipe the records books of Mark McGwire and Raffie Palmiero's home runs, and also those of Sammy Sosa. Then they should ban these guys from being put in the Hall of Fame. Great players like Mike Schmidt had to hit homers the old fashioned way...these cheaters have ruined the game forever. :rolleyes:

NJFINSFAN1
03-08-2006, 02:54 PM
It's time for the Commissioner of Baseball (Bud) to end this farce and ban Bonds before the season starts. What he did is just as bad as what Pete Rose did. Cheating is cheating. They also should wipe the records books of Mark McGwire and Raffie Palmiero's home runs, and also those of Sammy Sosa. Then they should ban these guys from being put in the Hall of Fame. Great players like Mike Schmidt had to hit homers the old fashioned way...these cheaters have ruined the game forever. :rolleyes:

The problem is this. Where is the proof?

I don't like the guy, yes I believe he is a cheater and a rotten human being!

But you can't ban a guy for thinking he is a cheater and being a rotten person.

MikeO
03-08-2006, 02:55 PM
It's time for the Commissioner of Baseball (Bud) to end this farce and ban Bonds before the season starts. What he did is just as bad as what Pete Rose did. Cheating is cheating. They also should wipe the records books of Mark McGwire and Raffie Palmiero's home runs, and also those of Sammy Sosa. Then they should ban these guys from being put in the Hall of Fame. Great players like Mike Schmidt had to hit homers the old fashioned way...these cheaters have ruined the game forever. :rolleyes:

Some thoughts..........

1) It's not the same as Pete Rose. Rose was or could have been fixing games from the bench. Bonds was just using suplements to improve HIS play. Not determining the outcome of games. Plus there was a rule in place for what Rose was doing. There were no anti-steroids rule in baseball at the time.

2) Too much is made out of records and record books. None of these records mean anything anymore because of the way the ballparks are built and the number of teams in the league these days.

3) Hall of Fame entry is overrated in my opinion anyway, who cares! It's not like anyone makes any money or becomes a "superstar" on getting into the hall of fame. All the hall of fame is that for one weekend in your life, they take you to the backwoods of NY State in Cooperstown, and get your *** kissed for 3 days straight. It means nothing!!!

And one thing to remember, THERE WAS NO DRUG TESTING OR STEROID TESTING IN MLB WHEN BONDS (among others) WAS DOING THIS!!!!!! You can't break a rule when there is no rule in place. Now you can say its against the law......but if MLB isn't testing for that then you can't hold it against him in the way of record books, and hall of fame stuff.

Everyone knows Bonds did steroids, he even himself in some roundabout way admited it himself with the cream and all of that BS. Now, we have people (with the g'vemnt I believe behind them) on a witch-hunt to get this guy. And that is just wrong.

CharlestonPhan
03-08-2006, 03:17 PM
so how did these writers get all this info that nobody else was able to get? i dont know how credible the book is...did they go talk to his suppliers which i doubt..how did they know what steroids he used? how did they know that he started off with winstrol first and then deca? how do they know who injected him b/c anderson sure didnt tell anyone

remember this; if there is anything in that book that is not factual, Barry Bonds has the mother of all slander (for testimony) / libel (for the book) lawsuits, that he can file... if he doesnt sue the authors, then it is because he is scared of what will come out in a court case.

the authors used over 220 sources to corroborate their story. and much of it is sworn testimony to federal investigators. they got all this info because the federal indictments against Victor Conte of BALCO, and Greg Anderson (Bonds longtime friend and personal trainer) reached plea agreements and the two plead guilty for their involvement in steroid distribution and manufacturing. therefore the evidence that would have been used against them in a trial was unsealed by the court.

i believe anyone has access to the information if you did a FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) request, as i understand it.

Bonds is guilty... his defense is that he took what Anderson told him to without questioning what was going into his body. Bonds is a guy who refuses to eat from the teams post game spread because he doesnt know the fat and calorie content of the foods they put out.

why didnt Congress compell Bonds to testify before their committee last year, when the BALCO/Canseco book furor was going on like they did McGwire, Sosa, Canseco, etc??? that stinks to high heaven...

it seems to me that baseball used its considerable pull to get him out of that, and ive heard people theorize that he is being protected because he will surpass Ruth this year almost certainly, and possibly Aarron's all time homerun record.

why would baseball protect him? because Aarron's HR record is the biggest record in sports. and they dont want to even have to deal with the taint of a steroid user owning arguably the most significant record in sports.

it infuriates me that a true gentleman and incredible natural athlete named Hank Aarron will be relugated to second by a fraud, just like Roger Maris' record was surpassed initially by those frauds McGwire and Sosa, and later by the fraud named Barry Bonds.

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 03:26 PM
And one thing to remember, THERE WAS NO DRUG TESTING OR STEROID TESTING IN MLB WHEN BONDS (among others) WAS DOING THIS!!!!!! You can't break a rule when there is no rule in place. Now you can say its against the law......but if MLB isn't testing for that then you can't hold it against him in the way of record books, and hall of fame stuff.

Everyone knows Bonds did steroids, he even himself in some roundabout way admited it himself with the cream and all of that BS. Now, we have people (with the g'vemnt I believe behind them) on a witch-hunt to get this guy. And that is just wrong.

How is it a witch hunt when the guy probably lied in federal court under oath? This isn't a witch hunt, there's apparently proof.

I dislike Bonds however I don't think his records should be wiped out nor should be get suspended, like you're saying. Like you said there was no rule about steroids when he was doing it and he's passed all his drug tests since the rule has been in place.

tucker
03-08-2006, 03:50 PM
i just dont see how some of the info they are releasing was able to be obtained unless they watched bonds do these things....and how can they get this info if it was not allowed to be leaked? you said it wasnt held by the court, charleston, but how did nobody else come up with this info when it was right there for the taking under the FOIA? some of the info that is released is too specific and its just too hard for a lot of that to be true...i personally dont care about him taking anything, b/c until just recently, he was allowed to take it in MLB...and if has stopped taking steroids, he's still huge..i mean he hasnt lost any size...usually once off steroids, you start losing some of the weight that was gained...you usually lose up to 30% of what you gained off a cycle, but he hasnt

djfresh47
03-08-2006, 06:14 PM
It's time for the Commissioner of Baseball (Bud) to end this farce and ban Bonds before the season starts. What he did is just as bad as what Pete Rose did. Cheating is cheating. They also should wipe the records books of Mark McGwire and Raffie Palmiero's home runs, and also those of Sammy Sosa. Then they should ban these guys from being put in the Hall of Fame. Great players like Mike Schmidt had to hit homers the old fashioned way...these cheaters have ruined the game forever. :rolleyes:

This would be great, but who knows who else used performance enhancing drugs? A book that states that Bonds used steroids, wasn't that known a couple years ago? If you wanna wipe out the records ya better wipe out all the records prior to african americans being able to play. Who knows who else was on steroids? This is being made out to be a much bigger deal than it really is, after his grand jury testimony was leaked wasn't it common knowledge that he used steroids?

Ferretsquig
03-08-2006, 07:23 PM
Everyone knows Bonds did steroids, he even himself in some roundabout way admited it himself with the cream and all of that BS. Now, we have people (with the g'vemnt I believe behind them) on a witch-hunt to get this guy. And that is just wrong.

They were reporters paid to investigate a story. Hardly a witch hunt. Mabey their sources had their own motives, but you cant blaim the guys who put two years of their lives into this; just doing their jobs.

PressCoverage
03-08-2006, 07:58 PM
some thoughts on your thoughts



2) Too much is made out of records and record books. None of these records mean anything anymore because of the way the ballparks are built and the number of teams in the league these days.

While I will agree that the watered down pitching staffs and, to a lesser degree, ballpark configurations have contributed to the offensive boom... The records DO matter... They matter to kids, to history, and to relevance.... Dimaggio, Williams, Ruth, etc. matter because of their greatness, gauged through RECORDS...


3) Hall of Fame entry is overrated in my opinion anyway, who cares! It's not like anyone makes any money or becomes a "superstar" on getting into the hall of fame. All the hall of fame is that for one weekend in your life, they take you to the backwoods of NY State in Cooperstown, and get your *** kissed for 3 days straight. It means nothing!!!

this is about the most blatant bunch of nonsense i believe i've ever heard on this forum... Hall of Fame discussion goes on forever in almost every sports circle, and it's a bone of contention for every borderline player who is passed over... It's the pinnacle achievement for any MLB player, and to dismiss it is disrespecting the game... "It means nothing?" ... Spin or minimize it any way you like.... Your opinion is fast treading water....


And one thing to remember, THERE WAS NO DRUG TESTING OR STEROID TESTING IN MLB WHEN BONDS (among others) WAS DOING THIS!!!!!! You can't break a rule when there is no rule in place. Now you can say its against the law......but if MLB isn't testing for that then you can't hold it against him in the way of record books, and hall of fame stuff.

Everyone knows Bonds did steroids, he even himself in some roundabout way admited it himself with the cream and all of that BS. Now, we have people (with the g'vemnt I believe behind them) on a witch-hunt to get this guy. And that is just wrong.

No, it's not wrong. It's accountability. He's a liar, in the face of overwhelming evidence against him for almost a decade, ever since his head literally expanded at age 35. You're right about the farsical lack of a rule, but this is about public perception, which means quite a bit to some (most) people. Barry Bonds and his legacy will be officially tarnished forever. Frankly, I don't feel one bit sorry for him. He cheated a game that brought him millions of dollars, and he could never show enough gratitude so as to have a pleasant persona about it. Go retire, Barry. And just fade away.

Prime Time
03-08-2006, 08:28 PM
some thoughts on your thoughts



While I will agree that the watered down pitching staffs and, to a lesser degree, ballpark configurations have contributed to the offensive boom... The records DO matter... They matter to kids, to history, and to relevance.... Dimaggio, Williams, Ruth, etc. matter because of their greatness, gauged through RECORDS...



this is about the most blatant bunch of nonsense i believe i've ever heard on this forum... Hall of Fame discussion goes on forever in almost every sports circle, and it's a bone of contention for every borderline player who is passed over... It's the pinnacle achievement for any MLB player, and to dismiss it is disrespecting the game... "It means nothing?" ... Spin or minimize it any way you like.... Your opinion is fast treading water....



No, it's not wrong. It's accountability. He's a liar, in the face of overwhelming evidence against him for almost a decade, ever since his head literally expanded at age 35. You're right about the farsical lack of a rule, but this is about public perception, which means quite a bit to some (most) people. Barry Bonds and his legacy will be officially tarnished forever. Frankly, I don't feel one bit sorry for him. He cheated a game that brought him millions of dollars, and he could never show enough gratitude so as to have a pleasant persona about it. Go retire, Barry. And just fade away.

Oh please...even If he did do steroids it may be morally wrong, but it wasn't against the rules.

CharlestonPhan
03-08-2006, 08:32 PM
i just dont see how some of the info they are releasing was able to be obtained unless they watched bonds do these things....and how can they get this info if it was not allowed to be leaked? you said it wasnt held by the court, charleston, but how did nobody else come up with this info when it was right there for the taking under the FOIA? some of the info that is released is too specific and its just too hard for a lot of that to be true...i personally dont care about him taking anything, b/c until just recently, he was allowed to take it in MLB...and if has stopped taking steroids, he's still huge..i mean he hasnt lost any size...usually once off steroids, you start losing some of the weight that was gained...you usually lose up to 30% of what you gained off a cycle, but he hasnt


they know without watching because the info released under the FOIA included tons of sworn testimony from Greg Anderson (and over 200 others), who was his trainer, and dealing to him and admitted to injecting him. not to mention keeping printed journals of Bonds steroid cycles. Anderson plead guilty to distributing steroids.

on Rome's show today, the authors stated the Giambi brothers, as well as Benito Santiago and other former Giants players whose names escape me but are in the book, implicate Bonds in sworn testimony as well, saying he introduced them to Anderson, who supplied them. in addition Gary Sheffield said last year Bonds hooked him up with steroids and with Anderson.

Bonds has admitted paying Anderson at least $15,000 cash for what he termed to prosecutors "weightlifting services." why cash? no paper trail. what services did he provide that warranted that kind of scratch? c'mon... its staring you in the face.

and again, look for Bonds to file a gazillion dollar lawsuit for slander and/or libel. if this stuff isnt true, he is going to get alot of money from the paper they work for, and the authors as well. but my bet is he wont be suing anyone. he doesnt want the state to call Conte, and Anderson, and Benito Santiago to the witness stand, all of whom have to be conspiring to lie in order for you to believe Bonds is not guilty.

nor does he want his ex mistress called to the stand, because then he would have to explian how he put $80,000 in cash from autograph shows down on a house for her in Scottsdale Arizona that he never reported to the IRS.

finfansince72
03-08-2006, 09:29 PM
The IRS is probaly after Bonds so his troubles are just beginning. To me if he doesnt take the authors of this book to court then what they say is more than likely true. They basically assainated his character and career in this book, if he can't prove they are lying its fair to assume they were telling the truth. I find no defense of Bonds for what he did. According to the authors Bonds started using steriods because he was angry that McGwire and Sosa got so much publicity despite being inferior players. He didnt take it to extend his career or to rehab injuries, he just wanted the attention that McGwire and Sosa got. Shows Bonds to be a pretty sad human being.
I don't buy this 'it wasn't against the rules' nonsense being thrown about here. As a fan of baseball I find what Bonds did wrong, and so will a ton of Hall of Fame voters. It DOES matter despite your silly contentions that it doesn't. Nice try but Bonds career is completely totally and utterly tarnished as well it should be. The sad thing is that he was on his way to a storied Hall of Fame career anyway, he just wanted that extra bit of being the 'homer king' instead of just one of the best players ever. Stupid.

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 09:30 PM
this is about the most blatant bunch of nonsense i believe i've ever heard on this forum... Hall of Fame discussion goes on forever in almost every sports circle, and it's a bone of contention for every borderline player who is passed over... It's the pinnacle achievement for any MLB player, and to dismiss it is disrespecting the game... "It means nothing?" ... Spin or minimize it any way you like.... Your opinion is fast treading water....

PressCoverage you have to realize that MikeO once called me a moron and a <removed> because I said Gammons was a joke and isn't a very good reporter because he never gets his inside facts and dirt right. And he based that my opinion was wrong simply because Gammons in the Hall of Fame. It's funny that he doesn't think being in the Hall of Fame is important.

I do however agree with you on the Hall of Fame. It is the pinnacle achievement for any player. If you ask any player in baseball what do they want to accomplish they'll all say: win a World Championship and get into the Hall of Fame. And that's not just about baseball that's in every major sport.

this time is for the filter violation, next time it will be for the remark about another member.

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 10:08 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/03/bonds_wheaties_box-1.jpg

GreenMonster
03-08-2006, 10:29 PM
Some thoughts..........

1) It's not the same as Pete Rose. Rose was or could have been fixing games from the bench. Bonds was just using suplements to improve HIS play. Not determining the outcome of games. Plus there was a rule in place for what se was doing. There were no anti-steroids rule in baseball at the time.

2) Too much is made out of records and record books. None of these records mean anything anymore because of the way the ballparks are built and the number of teams in the league these days.

3) Hall of Fame entry is overrated in my opinion anyway, who cares! It's not like anyone makes any money or becomes a "superstar" on getting into the hall of fame. All the hall of fame is that for one weekend in your life, they take you to the backwoods of NY State in Cooperstown, and get your *** kissed for 3 days straight. It means nothing!!!

And one thing to remember, THERE WAS NO DRUG TESTING OR STEROID TESTING IN MLB WHEN BONDS (among others) WAS DOING THIS!!!!!! You can't break a rule when there is no rule in place. Now you can say its against the law......but if MLB isn't testing for that then you can't hold it against him in the way of record books, and hall of fame stuff.

Everyone knows Bonds did steroids, he even himself in some roundabout way admited it himself with the cream and all of that BS. Now, we have people (with the g'vemnt I believe behind them) on a witch-hunt to get this guy. And that is just wrong.

1) Pete Rose, bet on a the Reds in all instances that he bet, which wasn't very often on his own team.. Bonds changed the outcome of every game he played in from the day he took steroids.. Anytime he came to the plate he had a great advantage...

2) Records are what makes baseball special.. I agree with all of your views on # of teams and ballparks, but this doesn't mean records aren't special.. Cal Ripken record chase, Maris Record Chase, these are 2 of the biggest moments in the last 15 years of baseball... Records matter, especially to the casual baseball fan that knows the leaders in many baseball records..

3) HOF means everything to the players that make it in.. Buck Oneil picked up a phone just to await his call from the HOF he never got.. He doesn't own a phone otherwise.. Many cry like babies when they make the HOF and read their speech or get presented.. Tell Goose Gossage the HOF means nothing, who campaigns every year to get in..

I will hold using steroids against Bonds.. He and every other user had a big advantage over non-users.. The guy cheated everyday for 8+ years, and lied and denied it the whole time, with obvious proof everywhere. I can't believe that because there was no rule in the MLB rule book that using steroids was illegal, it makes it ok to have an unfair advantage with every AB..

MikeO
03-08-2006, 10:35 PM
How is it a witch hunt when the guy probably lied in federal court under oath? This isn't a witch hunt, there's apparently proof.

I dislike Bonds however I don't think his records should be wiped out nor should be get suspended, like you're saying. Like you said there was no rule about steroids when he was doing it and he's passed all his drug tests since the rule has been in place.

1) I never said his records should be wiped out nor should he be banned!:shakeno: I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT!!!!!!

2) Proving he lied in federal court is next to impossible.

MikeO
03-08-2006, 10:38 PM
They were reporters paid to investigate a story. Hardly a witch hunt. Mabey their sources had their own motives, but you cant blaim the guys who put two years of their lives into this; just doing their jobs.

It's a witch hunt. He has appeared in court. All but confesed to using some sort of steroid with the cream, which that should have never have leaked out since it was a grand jury testimony, and yet they are still digging and trying to get more info. At some point it stops being "reporting" and begins being a "witch-hunt". Which it is right now.

MikeO
03-08-2006, 10:40 PM
Oh please...even If he did do steroids it may be morally wrong, but it wasn't against the rules.

NOT to mention he wasn't the ONLY one in this time period to do them, so if your gonna make him the poster boy, then you must go back in this time period and investigate EVERYONE!!! To single him out is wrong on many levels.

It sounds like I am defending the guy, but when damn near 75% or more of the league is using steriods in this time frame, to single him out is a joke on all levels! EVERYONE WAS DOING IT!

MikeO
03-08-2006, 10:43 PM
1) Pete Rose, bet on a the Reds in all instances that he bet, which wasn't very often on his own team.. Bonds changed the outcome of every game he played in from the day he took steroids.. Anytime he came to the plate he had a great advantage...

2) Records are what makes baseball special.. I agree with all of your views on # of teams and ballparks, but this doesn't mean records aren't special.. Cal Ripken record chase, Maris Record Chase, these are 2 of the biggest moments in the last 15 years of baseball... Records matter, especially to the casual baseball fan that knows the leaders in many baseball records..

3) HOF means everything to the players that make it in.. Buck Oneil picked up a phone just to await his call from the HOF he never got.. He doesn't own a phone otherwise.. Many cry like babies when they make the HOF and read their speech or get presented.. Tell Goose Gossage the HOF means nothing, who campaigns every year to get in..

I will hold using steroids against Bonds.. He and every other user had a big advantage over non-users.. The guy cheated everyday for 8+ years, and lied and denied it the whole time, with obvious proof everywhere. I can't believe that because there was no rule in the MLB rule book that using steroids was illegal, it makes it ok to have an unfair advantage with every AB..

It doesn't matter if Rose bet ON the Reds or AGAINST them. If he bets on them for 5 days straight, then doesn't on the 6th day, he is giving out inside information to other people that he thinks his team can't win. Betting on them or against them is meaningless!!!!!!!!

GreenMonster
03-08-2006, 10:46 PM
It doesn't matter if Rose bet ON the Reds or AGAINST them. If he bets on them for 5 days straight, then doesn't on the 6th day, he is giving out inside information to other people that he thinks his team can't win. Betting on them or against them is meaningless!!!!!!!!

I am not saying this isn't totally wrong.. But did Pete Rose change the outcome of games by betting on games.. Only if it changed the way he managed in the games.. Bonds changed every game everytime he took the field.. So if Rose bet 5 out of 7 days who cares Bonds cheated everyday for 8+ years...

Prime Time
03-08-2006, 10:57 PM
NOT to mention he wasn't the ONLY one in this time period to do them, so if your gonna make him the poster boy, then you must go back in this time period and investigate EVERYONE!!! To single him out is wrong on many levels.

It sounds like I am defending the guy, but when damn near 75% or more of the league is using steriods in this time frame, to single him out is a joke on all levels! EVERYONE WAS DOING IT!

I wouldn't be surprised If Sosa did it....

MikeO
03-08-2006, 11:07 PM
I am not saying this isn't totally wrong.. But did Pete Rose change the outcome of games by betting on games.. Only if it changed the way he managed in the games.. Bonds changed every game everytime he took the field.. So if Rose bet 5 out of 7 days who cares Bonds cheated everyday for 8+ years...

Pete Rose was the ONLY manager betting on games!! Bonds wasn't the ONLY one who did steroids though!:shakeno:

Let's go investigate EVERY player from that time frame and punish them!!! You can't just do 1 person and ignore everyone else. Probably over 50% of the league was on the roids in this time frame. Let's go get everyone. Why just 1 player?

Ray Finkle
03-08-2006, 11:15 PM
1) I never said his records should be wiped out nor should he be banned!:shakeno: I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT!!!!!!

2) Proving he lied in federal court is next to impossible.


1.) I never said that you said that his records should be wiped out, in fact if you go back and reread my post I was actually agreeing with you on your stance with Bonds and how since there were no rules against steroids in baseball at the time of his using he shouldn't be punished for it. :shakeno:

2.) Well apparently the book coming out could prove that he did in fact lie in federal court.

tylerdolphin
03-08-2006, 11:41 PM
Im not from the US, but Im guessing that anabolic steriods are illegal in the US without a presciption. Why does baseball need to tell the guy not to use steriods if its against the law anyway?
Also, the book is 100% credible to me. If there was even one lie in the whole book the writers would get sued for every penny they own.

djfresh47
03-09-2006, 12:00 AM
Pete Rose was the ONLY manager betting on games!! Bonds wasn't the ONLY one who did steroids though!:shakeno:

Let's go investigate EVERY player from that time frame and punish them!!! You can't just do 1 person and ignore everyone else. Probably over 50% of the league was on the roids in this time frame. Let's go get everyone. Why just 1 player?

Right, it seems that Bonds has been singled out but what about every other player that used the juice? Bonds probably changed the outcome of games, but then again so did a ton of other players. Bonds used steroids who cares? He gets scrutinized because he is soo great, and would be great if he never used the juice. Basically it took him from being a top 20 player to the best player i've ever seen. If Bonds was the only one in the game who ever used steroids then people can make an arguement about banning him, but how many homeruns did he hit off of pitchers on steroids? If an asterik is put next to his name, should an asterik be put by guys who played when baseball was segregated? Every other guy on every record would have to be investigated also.

MikeO
03-09-2006, 12:18 AM
2.) Well apparently the book coming out could prove that he did in fact lie in federal court.

HOW??????? I don't see it.

MikeO
03-09-2006, 12:23 AM
WFAN Audio (http://wfan.com/homepage/local_audioclip_067180629.html)

30 min audio clip from one of the authors. The author doesn't come off sounding good. When asked some tough questions he doesnt' even know what is in the book!!!! And then says he didn't write the book to make money! Yeah right!

Ray Finkle
03-09-2006, 12:27 AM
HOW??????? I don't see it.

What's the book about? Bonds doing steroids correct? Well when Bonds was asking in court if he knowingly took steroids he said no. Apparently in the book there's quotes and documents of Bonds talking about how to inject himself, etc.

If this book is true and isn't made up Bonds could possibly go to jail because he lied under oath about knowingly taking them.

MikeO
03-09-2006, 12:29 AM
What's the book about? Bonds doing steroids correct? Well when Bonds was asking in court if he knowingly took steroids he said no. Apparently in the book there's quotes and documents of Bonds talking about how to inject himself, etc.

If this book is true and isn't made up Bonds could possibly go to jail because he lied under oath about knowingly taking them.

He ain't going to jail.:shakeno: :shakeno:

While I am sure some or most of the stuff in the book is true, I am not going to believe everything in it just because "Bonds isn't a nice person".

Not to mention this "GRAND JURY" stuff isn't even supposed to be leaked or out on any level. The fact its in a book.........nuff said!

Ray Finkle
03-09-2006, 12:30 AM
"Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.

"According to the book, Bonds gulped as many as 20 pills at a time and was so deeply reliant on his regimen that he ordered Anderson to start "cycles" -- a prescribed period of steroid use lasting about three weeks -- even when he was not due to begin one. Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone; otherwise, such production diminishes or ceases with the continued introduction of synthetic forms of the muscle-building hormone.

"Bonds called for the re-starting of cycles when he felt his energy and power start to drop. If Anderson told Bonds he was not due for another cycle, the authors write, Bonds would tell him, 'F--- off, I'll do it myself.'" -- 3.7.06, Sports Illustrated, Bonds Exposed (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html)

Ray Finkle
03-09-2006, 12:32 AM
He ain't going to jail.:shakeno: :shakeno:

While I am sure some or most of the stuff in the book is true, I am not going to believe everything in it just because "Bonds isn't a nice person".

Not to mention this "GRAND JURY" stuff isn't even supposed to be leaked or out on any level. The fact its in a book.........nuff said!

Well IF he lied under oath he's going to jail. It doesn't matter who he is or how much money he makes. If there's proof he lied he's going to be in jail. It's a U.S. Law, there's no exceptions because he's a famous person etc.

MikeO
03-09-2006, 12:32 AM
"Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.

"According to the book, Bonds gulped as many as 20 pills at a time and was so deeply reliant on his regimen that he ordered Anderson to start "cycles" -- a prescribed period of steroid use lasting about three weeks -- even when he was not due to begin one. Steroid users typically stop usage for a week or two periodically to allow the body to continue to produce natural testosterone; otherwise, such production diminishes or ceases with the continued introduction of synthetic forms of the muscle-building hormone.

"Bonds called for the re-starting of cycles when he felt his energy and power start to drop. If Anderson told Bonds he was not due for another cycle, the authors write, Bonds would tell him, 'F--- off, I'll do it myself.'" -- 3.7.06, Sports Illustrated, Bonds Exposed (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html)

That is one persons side of the story!

Not to mention Kimberly Bell is also used in this book as a source. WOW, a scorned lover lashing out against a man who dumped her and left her high and dry. SHOCKING!!!! :shakeno:

MikeO
03-09-2006, 12:33 AM
Well IF he lied under oath he's going to jail. It doesn't matter who he is or how much money he makes. If there's proof he lied he's going to be in jail. It's a U.S. Law, there's no exceptions because he's a famous person etc.

Yeah, like Raffy Palmerio! :shakeno: What jail is he in??? Remind me again!

Thanks, just what I thought................

Ray Finkle
03-09-2006, 12:34 PM
Yeah, like Raffy Palmerio! :shakeno: What jail is he in??? Remind me again!

Thanks, just what I thought................

Where's the proof with Palmerio? Exactly there's none.

Like I said apparently the book is going to have documents and proof that Bonds in fact took them starting in 1998. Therefore Bonds clearly lied under oath when he said he didn't knowly take them. Your points are awful.

MikeO
03-09-2006, 12:46 PM
Where's the proof with Palmerio? Exactly there's none.

Like I said apparently the book is going to have documents and proof that Bonds in fact took them starting in 1998. Therefore Bonds clearly lied under oath when he said he didn't knowly take them. Your points are awful.

Proof!!!!!!!! He went in front of congress on 3/17/05... pointed his finger and said I have never done steriods in my life. THEN, it becomes public he fails a steroid test and steriods were in his system BEFORE that March 17th date! That ain't enough for ya! :sidelol:

And Bonds is going to say ..."i didnt know I was taking steriods, I thought they were suplements". Just like he said with the "cream" he was using!

Ray Finkle
03-09-2006, 01:36 PM
Proof!!!!!!!! He went in front of congress on 3/17/05... pointed his finger and said I have never done steriods in my life. THEN, it becomes public he fails a steroid test and steriods were in his system BEFORE that March 17th date! That ain't enough for ya! :sidelol:

And Bonds is going to say ..."i didnt know I was taking steriods, I thought they were suplements". Just like he said with the "cream" he was using!

Where did it say that the steroids were in Palmerio's system before March 17th? Everything I read on it was pure speculation. Show me proof, get me a link or article where it says that.

Again with the Bonds thing, the book apparently proves that Bonds knew exactly what he was doing and even injecting steroids into his body. And weren't you the one that said you thought the government leaked the information to the authors? If so don't you think the government has stuff on Bonds about his possible lying under oath?

MikeO
03-09-2006, 01:48 PM
Where did it say that the steroids were in Palmerio's system before March 17th? Everything I read on it was pure speculation. Show me proof, get me a link or article where it says that.

Again with the Bonds thing, the book apparently proves that Bonds knew exactly what he was doing and even injecting steroids into his body. And weren't you the one that said you thought the government leaked the information to the authors? If so don't you think the government has stuff on Bonds about his possible lying under oath?

Let's just agree that we disagree on EVERYTHING when it comes to this topic. We are going in circles.

Bonds ain't going to jail. I DON'T think the G'ment has anything on Bonds lying under oath, I feel the opposite. They have NOTHING on him now they just want to ruin his reputation even more!!! If they had something on him they would be going after him. Since they have nothing they will just try to smear his name even more than it already has been.

djfresh47
03-09-2006, 03:25 PM
That is one persons side of the story!

Not to mention Kimberly Bell is also used in this book as a source. WOW, a scorned lover lashing out against a man who dumped her and left her high and dry. SHOCKING!!!! :shakeno:

I seen a quote from Bond's lawyer and I don't know if it is true but Bell also then went and gave some interviews saying what she wrote was a lie, or something of that matter.

BAMAPHIN 22
03-09-2006, 08:45 PM
Selig reportedly considering suspending Bonds


Bud Selig wants to read the book before making any decisions about Barry Bonds, but he is apparently is considering a wide range of responses, including suspension, one report said.

"It's even worse than I thought," Selig said, the Chicago Tribune reported Thursday, citing an unnamed source who discussed the situation with him.

Selig wouldn't rule out suspending Bonds, the Tribune reported, citing a "highly placed MLB source." Although Selig is known for not acting quickly, he could issue a suspension before the Giants' home opener April 3, the Tribune
reported.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11733583/

nick1
03-10-2006, 08:56 AM
yeah it was all proven in the newest SI, he used steriods. I knew he did because you don't get that big that fast when your 34 and your in baseball

CirclingWagons
03-15-2006, 09:45 PM
Barry's a sack of **** and always has been...only this time he's a lying sack of ****. His numbers were so good that he didn't need to juice, but the greedy f*ck still wanted more. He'll get his eventually, and on that day I will celebrate

djfresh47
03-15-2006, 10:51 PM
Barry's a sack of **** and always has been...only this time he's a lying sack of ****. His numbers were so good that he didn't need to juice, but the greedy f*ck still wanted more. He'll get his eventually, and on that day I will celebrate

What about McGwire who just refused to talk about the past? Barry used juice, who cares? I thought everyone already knew that when his grand jury testimony was leaked. We look at all the numbers these guys have and who knows who else used the juice. If Selig is gonna investigate Bonds he better investigate every player their even was a hint that they juiced. I don't know how Selig can suspend Bonds, he didn't fail a test if he were to suspend him for what he did in the past, then Sheffield better be suspended too for admitting using roids as well as Giambi. I think the books coming out are just a desperate attempt to make money off of a guy who isn't well liked. Apparently a part of the 2nd book that came out talks of Bonds telling Griffey that he's gonna start juicing, then Griffey denies that conversation ever happened. This is a PR nightmare for baseball but how do they suspend a guy because of what he did a couple years ago and then not suspend Giambi and Sheffield who also juiced a couple years ago?

MikeO
03-16-2006, 02:52 AM
Selig reportedly considering suspending Bonds


Bud Selig wants to read the book before making any decisions about Barry Bonds, but he is apparently is considering a wide range of responses, including suspension, one report said.

"It's even worse than I thought," Selig said, the Chicago Tribune reported Thursday, citing an unnamed source who discussed the situation with him.

Selig wouldn't rule out suspending Bonds, the Tribune reported, citing a "highly placed MLB source." Although Selig is known for not acting quickly, he could issue a suspension before the Giants' home opener April 3, the Tribune
reported.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11733583/

Suspend him for what??????????? Do they have a bad or failed urine sample? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They can't touch Bonds. The only way Bonds gets in trouble is with the IRS and that is something Selig has no control over.

If Selig trys to suspend Bonds, the Union will be all over him and you will see a war like never before. They have zero evidence to suspend Bonds on. Sorry, yes, a book and an ex-girlfriend doesn't count as evidence to suspend someone.

The ONLY thing Selig can do is come out and say any records held by McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds will not be recogonized. Which means that Maris still holds the single season home run record and Aaaron is still the home run king. It is the ONLY card Selig has to play and I don't think he has enough balls to play that card. Cause then he would need to go back and pretty much "edit" the record book in every category and it would open a mess I'm not sure he wants to do. But if Bud has a hard-on for Bonds in the worst way, its the only move he can make.

CharlestonPhan
03-18-2006, 09:51 PM
NOT to mention he wasn't the ONLY one in this time period to do them, so if your gonna make him the poster boy, then you must go back in this time period and investigate EVERYONE!!! To single him out is wrong on many levels.

It sounds like I am defending the guy, but when damn near 75% or more of the league is using steriods in this time frame, to single him out is a joke on all levels! EVERYONE WAS DOING IT!

this first statment is patently inaccurate... i dont recall Barry Bonds testifying before congtress last year, do you? even though the investigation of he and Giambi's dealers (BALCO) was the cause of this scandal coming to light, the fact is, until now he has been given a free pass, because baseball doesnt know how to handle the situation.

the book isnt out yet, but the sports illustrated with excerpts fro it is... ive read it. there is no doubt.

spineless commisioner Selig said the other day that they wont suspend him unless he is charged with tax evasion (for the more than 80 grand in autograph show cash he used to help buy his mistress a house, that was never reported to the IRS) or perjury for his sworn statements regarding using steroids... Selig is clearly signaling the Feds the ball is in their court. stay tuned.

CharlestonPhan
03-18-2006, 09:55 PM
Pete Rose was the ONLY manager betting on games!! Bonds wasn't the ONLY one who did steroids though!:shakeno:

Let's go investigate EVERY player from that time frame and punish them!!! You can't just do 1 person and ignore everyone else. Probably over 50% of the league was on the roids in this time frame. Let's go get everyone. Why just 1 player?

because he is about to break arguably the most sacred records in sports... and Hank Aarron deserves better. baseball owes him at least that much. and so does Roger Maris for that matter.

McGwire has lost all credibility, so has Sosa, both of whom passed Maris mark of 61 homers... its Barry's turn to pay the piper, take all his ill gotten financial gains and go away forever.

CharlestonPhan
03-18-2006, 09:58 PM
Well IF he lied under oath he's going to jail. It doesn't matter who he is or how much money he makes. If there's proof he lied he's going to be in jail. It's a U.S. Law, there's no exceptions because he's a famous person etc.

as much as i would like for what you said to be true, check out the case of Bill Clinton. :)

MikeO
03-18-2006, 11:32 PM
this first statment is patently inaccurate... i dont recall Barry Bonds testifying before congtress last year, do you? even though the investigation of he and Giambi's dealers (BALCO) was the cause of this scandal coming to light, the fact is, until now he has been given a free pass, because baseball doesnt know how to handle the situation.

the book isnt out yet, but the sports illustrated with excerpts fro it is... ive read it. there is no doubt.

spineless commisioner Selig said the other day that they wont suspend him unless he is charged with tax evasion (for the more than 80 grand in autograph show cash he used to help buy his mistress a house, that was never reported to the IRS) or perjury for his sworn statements regarding using steroids... Selig is clearly signaling the Feds the ball is in their court. stay tuned.

He hasn't been given a free pass. He has PASSED his piss tests up until this point. So they can't get him on having a bad sample. He wasn't asked to testify infront of congress last year so you can't blame him for that. And I don't call going in front of a GRAND JURY as "getting a free pass" :shakeno:

And the "book" isn't anything more than a scorned lover and a bunch of people who don't like Bonds giving THEIR side of a story! Hardly credible.

And once agian, we can't forget......without a failed urine sample, you can't suspend him. PERIOD!

djfresh47
03-19-2006, 12:23 AM
He hasn't been given a free pass. He has PASSED his piss tests up until this point. So they can't get him on having a bad sample. He wasn't asked to testify infront of congress last year so you can't blame him for that. And I don't call going in front of a GRAND JURY as "getting a free pass" :shakeno:

And the "book" isn't anything more than a scorned lover and a bunch of people who don't like Bonds giving THEIR side of a story! Hardly credible.

And once agian, we can't forget......without a failed urine sample, you can't suspend him. PERIOD!

I agree. Everybody is jumping on Bonds and how can Selig suspend him? For things that happened a couple seasons ago, like I posted previously Giambi and Sheffield would also be suspended and basically every current player would have to be investigated to see if they ever took steroids. Without steroids Barry Bonds was the best player I seen play, with steroids he's probably the best player I will ever see play. For Bonds atleast the most damaging thing is that people are going to forget how good he was before the juice. Everybody looks back at the roids issue and thinks it was terrible for baseball but for Bud Selig it was not a bad thing and all the homeruns actually brought many people back to baseball, IMO. Most fans were captivated by Sosa/McGwire and the homerun record but turned away at the thought that these guys were crushing balls and there heads seemed to be balloons everybody turned there heads. If Bonds breaks the record and they put an asterik next to his name it's garbage IMO, is Ruth gonna get an asterik next to his name for playing in a segregated league?