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ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 06:57 PM
I just wanted to say in advance, thank you guys for all the compliments and respect that Boomer, KB21, and myself have received over the years from you guys.

Over the years you have all gotten to know me pretty intimately. I've notched 17,000+ posts with my furious typing and seemingly endless supply of words and sentences.

You guys ALL know Boomer and KB21. They have functioned as your local FinHeaven Draft Gurus for a long time and I hope you have come to enjoy their research, and respect their opinions as much as I have. Believe it or not, they have spent long, tireless hours engaging in professional grade film study and draft research to come by their unique level of knowledge. For myself, I have engaged in serious film study for only the last three or four years.

You guys have seen Saban's media policy. It is North Korea over at the Dolphins facility and the local 'professional' media are going nuts over it...endlessly taking veiled shots at Nick Saban and disregarding positive fan sentiment. The reason is simple: they no longer have the contacts to get the inside information, and so they must rely on their brains and knowledge to predict the Dolphins' actions. It now becomes a valid question as to just what kind of knowledgeable fans there are out there who are able to accurately analyze, assess, and predict moves and potential moves made by the Miami Dolphins better than the traditional local press. A great example of this would be Fineas' most recent Culpepper Manifesto.

With the help and support of FinHeaven, and the FinHeaven community, I believe we have an opportunity that few other fan communities of any other team can boast. With the burgeoning popularity of FinHeaven, and the tireless hard work of three of its home grown members, we can offer an entire smorgasboard of NFL Draft evaluation from the perspective of the Miami Dolphins.

Enough preamble. On to the subject at hand.

Draft Coverage

Boomer, myself, and KB21 are in the middle of conducting research on the possibility of rolling out systematic draft coverage aimed primarily at the Miami Dolphins fan community. This would involve professional bottom-up research and commentary. We are considering the following itemized products for the 2007 NFL Draft. Please vote on which products you would be willing to buy.

1. Weekly/Twice-Weekly Email Newsletter: $5 per month (Feb, Mar, Apr)
We are leaning toward the newsletter being sent twice per week. The email would include new pieces and commentary from myself, Boomer, and KB21. The commentary should cover relevant happenings during the week. During "dead" times when nothing new has happened worthy of discussion, the newsletter would focus on film evaluation and commentary on draft prospects that may be of interest to the Dolphins. The topics of discussion would probably be guided toward what seemed to be most on the minds of Dolphin fans at the time. The fee we would be charging would be $5 per month from February through the end of April. The newsletter would be the basic package from which you can add other items.

2. Unprecedented Fan Access Through Q&A: $5 (for all three months)
The idea is for fans to be able to ask us as many questions as they desire and have us give them answers in much the same way that Boomer and I have been doing in the Ask Boomer thread. Needless to say, for those who have subscriptions to other draft sites, this is not a common offering. We would hold live Q&A chat sessions, through IRC, subscription necessary to get in. We would also field email questions and would work your questions into a Private Q&A Newsletter that would be sent to all members of the Q&A offering. Note that subscribers to the basic Newsletter would not be sent the Private Q&A Newsletter, nor would subscribers be able to sign up for the Q&A access without subscribing to the base Newsletter. This is a package deal. $20 in February would get you three months worth of newsletters, and three months worth of Q&A.

3. Full Color Printed and Bound Draft Guide (Subscribers Only): $20 (plus S/H)
The Draft Guide would be printed, published, and shipped around the first week of April in order to give you plenty of time to digest it prior to D-Day. This would be a professional grade draft guide that would include: mock draft, position rankings, top 100 board, and individual player profiles. The player profiles would incorporate as available: accurate height/weight listings, NFL Combine measurements, Combine commentary (where applicable), Senior Bowl commentary (where applicable), college statistics, a draft grade (round), and overall commentary from the three of us. As you know, I am a statistical buff, so I am batting around the idea of using full Combine measurements in order to derive Madden-style player attributes.

4. Full Color Printed and Bound Draft Guide (non-Subscribers): $30 (plus S/H)
This would be the exact same as above. We want to encourage people first and foremost to be subscribers to our basic newsletter. If you are a subscriber by March, you will receive the Draft Guide at a $10 discount. If you are not a subscriber, the Draft Guide would cost you $30 per copy.

5. Draft Weekend Chat Admission: $5 (Saturday & Sunday)
I am not trying to get a big head here and I am not trying to say it is worth $5 just to rub elbows with the three of us. But, the fact of the matter is that Draft Day around FinHeaven will be a MADHOUSE. You saw all the server overload problems just when the fanbase expected Drew Brees to sign at any minute. We want to organize an orderly chat room that Boomer, KB21, and myself would all be in, where we could actively discuss everything that is going on during the draft, as it happens. But you just cannot do something like this for free admission, because everyone would come and it is no longer ORDERLY. We want serious discussion from serious fans, and charging admission is a good way to cull out the ones who just want to come into chat and take a crap all over everyone. This is pretty much the only aspect of this Draft coverage that the three of us are considering offering for the 2006 NFL Draft. The draft day chat room would likely be an IRC chat room, and the best way to access IRC is with mIRC. If you try to use the FH servers, you run into the overload problem that will undoubtedly happen on draft day. Last year, I just remember being very disappointed that I could not find a chat room where I could discuss things that were happening with reasonable, intelligent Dolfans, and I was very disappointed in that experience. All I am saying is the three of us will agree to be around to chat in an organized, controlled chat room for much of the two days of the NFL Draft...if you guys would pay a SMALL admission fee in order to guarantee the right and ability to discuss things intelligently.


So, now you have read the options. Please vote for as many as you think you would be interested in buying. Again, this is just MARKET RESEARCH in order to guide us as to what kind of coverage we should provide. We will not jump into this thing unless we feel it is going to be a rewarding experience for the FinHeaven Community.

As a little background for those that do now know us.

Boomer lives in sunny England and follows the draft like it's his job...and at various points, it has been his job. He works for the BBC and has journalistic experience. For those that know him, Frank Coyle has asked Boomer in the past to work with them at Great Blue North, but Boomer had to decline due to his child being on the way. Boomer is a film junky that speaks with the voice of experience, as he has been following the Draft since before I was even able to appreciate the merits of a nice set of womens' breasts.

KB21 is a 28 year old genius medical student. He's seen more A's on the report card than your local asian community. He attended undergraduate at Mississippi State and grew up playing baseball and football with Steelers standout guard Kendall Simmons. Keith is a film junky and an avid football nut. He would certainly welcome the opportunity to stack up his wonderlic next to anyone else in the world.

CKParrotHead (me)...I am...well let's see...mostly a know-it-all. Once upon a time I was a 16 year old smart@ss that loved to boast about his SAT score. Since then, I graduated with a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Economics with a Minor in History from Georgetown University, and am currently working as an Equity Analyst with Raymond James Financial in St. Petersburg, FL. The research team I work on (about a half dozen to a dozen guys) currently manages around $5 billion in corporate and public retirement assets. I watch a lot of film, maintain databases on draft prospects, and I do statistical analysis because I like to do so. I speak with the voice of an Equity Analyst that evaluates stocks in much the same way that I've always evaluated individual football players and teams. This industry is practically a mirror-image of the football world, you would be very surprised. I have found a lot of success in both worlds by having experience in both areas. My financial experience has helped me to further understand the NFL, and my experience evaluating the NFL allowed me to "hit the ground running" with the Equity Analyst role.

BigDogsHunt
03-17-2006, 07:04 PM
1 & 3 sound interesting to me.....might consider others, but also would hope some of your knowldege would be shared as always for fun and not just profit with chats and message board :D

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:10 PM
We would continue to post in the VIP forums as we've always done.

However, "Ask Boomer" threads will pretty much cease to exist outside of the VIP forum and outside of the draft coverage.

As Boomer has pointed out in the past, he just can't afford to be doing all kinds of draft research anymore if there's no light at the end of the tunnel. We've put a lot of manhours into all this...and we want to keep doing it for everyone's benefit, but it just isn't feasible to continue unless there is some revenue involved. Sorry.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:21 PM
In order to encourage more voting for the sake of market research, please feel free to ask Boomer or myself any questions you have regarding the draft or Dolphins football and we'll try and answer them in this thread.

KB21
03-17-2006, 07:22 PM
I will also answer any questions, to the best of my knowledge, you may have about the current draft and Miami's approach to this draft.

phinphan11
03-17-2006, 07:25 PM
No offense but there is still 'free' draft information available for those who would rather not pay up.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:26 PM
Excellent! We have KB in here as well to conduct Ask KB stuff.

VIP members know KB21 pretty well, but he hasn't been out to the main forum in quite a while.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:28 PM
No offense but there is still 'free' draft information available for those who would rather not pay up.

There is indeed. But I guarantee you won't find full ACCURATE measurements, analysis, or ability to predict which players the Miami Dolphins are looking at in the draft.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:29 PM
If people disagree with certain prices, please feel free to suggest other prices.

BigDogsHunt
03-17-2006, 07:31 PM
There is indeed. But I guarantee you won't find full ACCURATE measurements, analysis, or ability to predict which players the Miami Dolphins are looking at in the draft.

Exactly, its the specific Miami analysis that interests me of course.

KB -

Great to have you.

Based on FA, and the 6 picks we still have. Who are you targeting in the 1st.

And as far as other rounds....do you see mostly Defense with those picks (how many D guys, how many O guys with our 6), and if you see Offense what round and position.

thanks -

Dolfan1000
03-17-2006, 07:32 PM
Guys, first of all, I just want to thank you for all you do. You are all tremendous assets to this board and should be commended. Well done.

Those are certainly some interesting options, many of which worth considering. I personally really like the Draft Day Chat idea.

Now for my question: With the signing of Renaldo Hill, I get the impression Nick is looking for versatility in his players, but particularly DBs. Now, with this in mind, looks like a guy like Jimmy Williams could be our target in Round 1. Agree or disagree? Also, with the possibility of Atlanta dealing their #1 for Abraham, it looks like the possibility of him being available there is substantially higher.

Dolfan1000
03-17-2006, 07:42 PM
Also guys, according to the Sun-Sentinel, we entertained CB Will Allen today. Now, if signed, I could see us looking at SS in Round 1, as reports are Renaldo Hill was signed for the FS spot. So my question is this: Who is the best safety prospect that projects as a SS? Also, could Ernie Sims convert to that position, like ex-teammate Michael Boulware? Could he be a fit at #16?

OurHeartAndSoul
03-17-2006, 07:49 PM
I would be interested in the magazine, but at around 10 bucks. That's what I pay for the Sporting News draft mag every year and I'm happy with it.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:50 PM
Guys, first of all, I just want to thank you for all you do. You are all tremendous assets to this board and should be commended. Well done.

Those are certainly some interesting options, many of which worth considering. I personally really like the Draft Day Chat idea.

Now for my question: With the signing of Renaldo Hill, I get the impression Nick is looking for versatility in his players, but particularly DBs. Now, with this in mind, looks like a guy like Jimmy Williams could be our target in Round 1. Agree or disagree? Also, with the possibility of Atlanta dealing their #1 for Abraham, it looks like the possibility of him being available there is substantially higher.

The idea behind the draft chat is to sort of weed out the people who just show up to this sort of thing to start spouting off crap...or the people who aren't serious about all this. If this stuff isn't for you that's fine, we want the people who are interested not the people who are not. We'd make it cheaper but the best way to make sure the people that show up are INTERESTED in the merits of the draft chat, is to make them pony up in the wallet department to do it.

It does seem like versatility is a big thing with Saban and I believe one of the reasons you'll find that is because Saban really places a high priority on being able to come up in run support and hit people. A person in the secondary that can't tackle is like a hole in the fish net for fish to escape through. It is an exploitation waiting to happen.

Jimmy Williams is possibly but he's really turned a few people off with his character, off and on the field. As one scout said "he's got a million dollar body and a 10 cent head".

KB21
03-17-2006, 07:52 PM
Exactly, its the specific Miami analysis that interests me of course.

KB -

Great to have you.

Based on FA, and the 6 picks we still have. Who are you targeting in the 1st.

And as far as other rounds....do you see mostly Defense with those picks (how many D guys, how many O guys with our 6), and if you see Offense what round and position.

thanks -

Miami is currently very interested in some defensive players with that first round pick. One guy they are very intersted in is Antonio Cromartie and for good reason. Antonio is a 6'2" cornerback that runs a consistent 4.4 forty, has very long arms, great ball skills, and great man to man coverage skills. He is also very physical in run support. He's such a great athlete that FSU was playing around with the idea of playing him at wide receiver some this season as well, before he tore the ACL in his knee.

The Dolphins are also showing some interest in Tennessee defensive back Jason Allen. Jason Allen was being graded out as a mid-first round draft pick before dislocating his hip early in the season. Doubts over that injury had dropped his draft status into the second round, but Jason Allen alleviated any doubts about whether he is 100% with an OUTSTANDING performance at the combine. CK put together an analysis of the past two drafts relative to the defensive back performance at the combine. Jason Allen tested out as the best athlete of any defensive back that performed at the combine this year or last year. Jason is 6'1", 209 lbs, is physical, versatile, and has 4.39 speed. He blew the doors off all the other defensive backs in the agility drills, being in the top three in every drill (short shuttle, long shuttle, three cone drill). Miami will be well represented at Tennessee's Pro Day.

The Dolphins are also showing some interest in a couple of other FSU defenders, namely defensive tackle Brodrick Bunkley and linebacker Ernie Sims. Nick Saban wants defensive tackles to be able to give him a push up the middle to keep quarterbacks from stepping up when the ends crash in from the outside, and Brodrick Bunkley tied with Dusty Dvoracek for the NCAA lead in tackles for loss this past season among interior linemen. He's 6'3", 306 lbs and is built like an Adonis. He looks like he was weaned off a Nautilus machine. He's massive in the chest and shoulder area, and in the thigh area. He's built really well, low to the ground, and has an explosive burst off the ball. Some teams are looking at him as a nose tackle, comparing him to the Steelers' Casey Hampton, and some are looking at him as a three technique tackle.

Ernie Sims is one hell of an athlete, running a ridiculous 4.45 forty at FSU's pro day while being one of only a few linebackers to break 4.6 at the combine. He draws comparisons to Derrick Brooks. His long term fit in Nick's defense would probably be as a weakside linebacker, with Channing Crowder moving to strong side linebacker and eventually middle linebacker.

One other guy that the Dolphins seriously considering with that pick is wide receiver Chad Jackson from Florida. Nick Saban met personaly with Chad Jackson when Jackson was visiting the Senior Bowl. Nick is very familiar with Chad from his days in the SEC. Jackson is a burner at wide receiver that would give the Dolphins the type of speed threat they need in this offense. I think he is a mix of Eric Moulds and Chad Johnson relative to talent and desire.

As for what they want to do with their later picks, I know they want to add another young offensive lineman to the fold, and they want to get a young quarterback as well. The Dolphins have been doing a lot of research on quarterback Omar Jacobs from Bowling Green. Given the fact that Nick Saban stated in his press conference that getting Daunte will not keep them from drafting a quarterback if it is the best player available, do not be surprised to see Miami take Omar Jacobs in the third round. Another name at quarterback to keep in mind is Ingle Martin from Furman.

As far as linemen go, Hudson Houck has personaly scouted Willie Colon from Hofstra, and the Dolphins have also shown a lot of interest in Albert Toiena from Tennessee.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:54 PM
Also guys, according to the Sun-Sentinel, we entertained CB Will Allen today. Now, if signed, I could see us looking at SS in Round 1, as reports are Renaldo Hill was signed for the FS spot. So my question is this: Who is the best safety prospect that projects as a SS? Also, could Ernie Sims convert to that position, like ex-teammate Michael Boulware? Could he be a fit at #16?

I think Ernie is a linebacker, personally...and even though his size is not where we would like it, he would be a good/great weak side backer even in this defense. I don't think anyone moves him to safety and if they do I think it might be a mistake.

Jason Allen COULD play safety although I seem him as a hard hitting corner very much like Michael Huff. Allen could be taken at #16, and tho his future be at corner, he could start off at safety. Donte Whitner is the only Strong Safety type that really comes to mind in the 1st round. He's not got top level athleticism, but he's a tough, tough kid and has a lot of skills. I don't see us drafting him at #16, though.

Honestly Saban is filling up as many spots as he can it seems, in order to try and make it so that we can pick up whoever we feel is the most talented player at #16. If someone falls that just should not have fallen, you can bet we pick him up almost regardless of the position.

HysterikiLL
03-17-2006, 07:55 PM
CK, you know I think this is a great idea, but why are you guys focusing only on the 'Fins? I really think you guys should try and take this thing league-wide as there is far more potential and with the talent of you and Boomer, I certainly think there would be a market for your knowledge.

If you guys were to do that, FinHeaven along with those other crappy Jets and Bills sites (:wink:) would certainly be a great springboard.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:56 PM
I would be interested in the magazine, but at around 10 bucks. That's what I pay for the Sporting News draft mag every year and I'm happy with it.

Thank you for your input! We will be considering ALL options for this...and a $10 draft mag might be one of those options we consider. It would have to be a little lighter on the pages, because of printing costs.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 07:56 PM
It's really important that you guys let us know the sorts of things that you're interested in seeing because it helps us no end. We have the full backing of Andrew and George and the team at FH for which we are most thankful.

But it's being done for you because, as CK says, we're working our tails off year after year and it's clear that they're's some sort of market out there, but we need to know where it is so that we can best position ourselves to make YOU guys the happiest you can be with what WE'RE trying to provide.

You will be getting unprecedented analysis, with the emphasis on our Dolphins. We will be trying to add to our growing list of contacts to try and bring you the sorts of Miami related snippets that you won't see elsewhere - for example, did you know that the Dolphin contingent in Tallahassee for the FSU work out described Antonio Cromartie as "very impressive" and "looking as though he'd never been hurt". Couple this with the information that we gave more than 6 weeks ago, that Cromartie was one of the few players to have been dined by Coach Saban, Randy Mueller and Mel Phillips and you're looking at one of the super blue chip guys that we will be considering with the 16th pick.

The majority of you guys know Keith CK and myself from the Herald boards or Mouth Off or Prinzs Pro Prospects where Keith and I first met up and started out, more than a decade ago, from Dolfan Talk and Finheaven and Great Blue North, etc. etc. etc. Thus, you're getting a proven commodity. The sort of information that we've been giving in the VIP only better.

But THE single most important thing is you guys. You are our potential customers. You need to let US know what you think.

Thanks
Boomer.

Jimmy James
03-17-2006, 07:58 PM
Since I may actually be employed in 2007, I probably would be willing to pay $20 for good email coverage and a good chat going on during the draft. My biggest concern would be how strong the Dolphins focus would be. I make no apologies for my interests being more than just for the Dolphins on draft day -- I also use draft information as the start of my fantasy football preparation. I would hope for coverage of players the Dolphins aren't likely to pick.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 07:58 PM
Also guys, according to the Sun-Sentinel, we entertained CB Will Allen today. Now, if signed, I could see us looking at SS in Round 1, as reports are Renaldo Hill was signed for the FS spot. So my question is this: Who is the best safety prospect that projects as a SS? Also, could Ernie Sims convert to that position, like ex-teammate Michael Boulware? Could he be a fit at #16?

Some teams have looked at Ernie at SS and it's an idea that CK and I floated here a while ago, but he was heavier again at the FSU pro day and says that he will be at 240 by the time the draft comes round without losing any speed. That's simply too big for a SS despite his ridiculously good foot speed. You would want him at LB where he can make plays and use that speed off the edge as well as in coverage.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 07:59 PM
CK, you know I think this is a great idea, but why are you guys focusing only on the 'Fins? I really think you guys should try and take this thing league-wide as there is far more potential and with the talent of you and Boomer, I certainly think there would be a market for your knowledge.

If you guys were to do that, FinHeaven along with those other crappy Jets and Bills sinks (:wink:) would certainly be a great springboard.

In short the Fins are our specialty, to be honest. We could roll out nationwide and we would especially with the Draft Guide, but as far as the newsletter, Q&A, and chat go, we're Phins fans, and we believe there's a market for professional grade commentary among phins fans...but if we're mistaken about that, we will adjust!

Thanks for your input! I believe the three of us are very much talented enough to make this work on whichever level we choose, but the question is how much time do we put into it vs. how much benefit.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 08:00 PM
Since I may actually be employed in 2007, I probably would be willing to pay $20 for good email coverage and a good chat going on during the draft. My biggest concern would be how strong the Dolphins focus would be. I make no apologies for my interests being more than just for the Dolphins on draft day -- I also use draft information as the start of my fantasy football preparation. I would hope for coverage of players the Dolphins aren't likely to pick.

Jimmy, this is one of the things we need to decide. Is it best to concentrate specifically on Miami, a lot on Miami and a little elsewhere or a lot on Miami and lot elsewhere.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 08:03 PM
Since I may actually be employed in 2007, I probably would be willing to pay $20 for good email coverage and a good chat going on during the draft. My biggest concern would be how strong the Dolphins focus would be. I make no apologies for my interests being more than just for the Dolphins on draft day -- I also use draft information as the start of my fantasy football preparation. I would hope for coverage of players the Dolphins aren't likely to pick.

That had to be the funniest comment in here.

The bottom line though is we know these players. You can ask us any damn thing you want and the chances are you're going to get a more intelligent reply than 95% of the sources out there because we know these players.

For the newsletter, I was thinking that this should be Fins-oriented. But do not expect that to be explicit in any way, just implicit. Personally, I favor the kind of guys that Nick Saban does because he seems to have made that WORK.

For the Draft Guide, the bottom line is we'd have reams and reams of commentary about EACH player. The Fins slant would only be when appropriate. It isn't as if we're going to ignore Ernie Sims as a prospect just because he's not in it for our team.

Jimmy James
03-17-2006, 08:03 PM
Jimmy, this is one of the things we need to decide. Is it best to concentrate specifically on Miami, a lot on Miami and a little elsewhere or a lot on Miami and lot elsewhere.

Since you guys are asking, I would like to see about a 50-50 split. Give me about half of the coverage and commentary on the Miami/AFC East situation and about half of it on the other 7 divisions.

I do think it would be a good idea to open this up to the other AFC East teams because I do think that you have to cover the Bills, Jets, and Patriots to an extent in order to cover Miami anyway.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 08:05 PM
Guys, first of all, I just want to thank you for all you do. You are all tremendous assets to this board and should be commended. Well done.

Those are certainly some interesting options, many of which worth considering. I personally really like the Draft Day Chat idea.

Now for my question: With the signing of Renaldo Hill, I get the impression Nick is looking for versatility in his players, but particularly DBs. Now, with this in mind, looks like a guy like Jimmy Williams could be our target in Round 1. Agree or disagree? Also, with the possibility of Atlanta dealing their #1 for Abraham, it looks like the possibility of him being available there is substantially higher.

Thanks.

I think Hill's knowledge of the system and versatility and ST work is the important factor here. Jimmy Williams and Vince Young are the two oddest fish in this draft. Young I find hard to put anywhere, but Williams is the same. As someone recently said, million dollar body, $10 head. I looked deeply into Jimmy's past for an in-depth piece in the VIP, the sort of piece that we'd be rolling out with this proposal, and I found a kid who was immature in extremis, but who had worked hard and gained the trust of his coaches and teammates on what had been clearly at times a rocky path. But after the Combine interviews where he was described as "emotionally unstable" and with the tweener label - I think he's a safety not a corner - then he's hard to get a handle on. Is he a target for Miami? Sure. Is he top of the target list? I'd be very surprised. I think Miami might have as many as 6 corners rated above him - Allen, Youboty, Cromartie, Huff, Joseph and Marshall.

We shall see.

KB21
03-17-2006, 08:08 PM
CK, you know I think this is a great idea, but why are you guys focusing only on the 'Fins? I really think you guys should try and take this thing league-wide as there is far more potential and with the talent of you and Boomer, I certainly think there would be a market for your knowledge.

If you guys were to do that, FinHeaven along with those other crappy Jets and Bills sites (:wink:) would certainly be a great springboard.

That is something that has been discussed and will continue to be discussed. The thinking right now is that we need to start with a more narrowed base and maybe expand it to a more league wide system as we get feedback.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 08:11 PM
What we'll probably do is some sort of narrower based thing this year, some articles, newsletters possibly or maybe just do a 'last week of the draft' series of chats/newsletters, then a huge draft day bonanza and then really get into the groove for 2007 and roll out something really special.

We're undecided of course, but we shall see.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 08:12 PM
60% of you so far think we're nuts and wouldn't pay for any info.

That's cool. All helps with the knowledge.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 08:27 PM
Keep the questions flowing. It's a little late in England so Boomer's retiring for the night, but KB21 and I would be all too happy to field your questions about the draft and other things!

BigDogsHunt
03-17-2006, 08:36 PM
Are you boys concerned with our QB depth? I would hope it doesnt take DC long to get up to speed on the "Miami Offense", but if he isnt ready for preseason or opening day, Is Cleo ready? And since Gus is joining Linehan in St. Louis, who do you think we get that can ramp up in time to hold down the fort (and be willing to) for 3-4 games at the most until DC comes back if OCT is worst case?

Also, backup RB thougths if Ricky isnt around?

Boomer
03-17-2006, 08:42 PM
No. I think if Gus goes to St Louis, that we'll bring in a vet back-up - Tommy Maddox has been floated as a possibility and then look at drafting a youngster to groom such as Jacobs, Martin, even as high as Charlie Whitehurst.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 08:43 PM
Are you boys concerned with our QB depth? I would hope it doesnt take DC long to get up to speed on the "Miami Offense", but if he isnt ready for preseason or opening day, Is Cleo ready? And since Gus is joining Linehan in St. Louis, who do you think we get that can ramp up in time to hold down the fort (and be willing to) for 3-4 games at the most until DC comes back if OCT is worst case?

Also, backup RB thougths if Ricky isnt around?

First off....YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY! We got stickied!!

Heh.

Ok onto your question. I expect we'll roster 4 QBs this year. We're going to sign a veteran to compete with Cleo Lemon to be the starter in mini-camp and training camp until Daunte is ready, and right now that appears to be Tommy Maddox like it or not. Patrick Ramsey is off to the Jets.

After that I truly believe we'll be drafting a guy. Just do not know where yet. Could be Croyle, Whitehurts, or Jacobs in the 3rd or 4th, could be Hackney, Ingle Martin, Kellen Clemens, or the like in the 7th. I would also toss Reggie McNeal in as a 3rd round possibility but I've not heard anything to indicate the Phins are after him.

BigDogsHunt
03-17-2006, 08:47 PM
No. I think if Gus goes to St Louis, that we'll bring in a vet back-up - Tommy Maddox has been floated as a possibility and then look at drafting a youngster to groom such as Jacobs, Martin, even as high as Charlie Whitehurst.

Is there any thing "special" or "unique" about the "Miami Offense" from Linehan vs. what Mularky ran with Maddox in Pitt? I understand the veteran QB concept and all, and agree, Maddox seems to be the type to accept his backup position role, does he best fit our system and be able to pick up it quickly?

I am not making it out to be brain surgery, just wondering if he has to "unlearn" some things or "learn a new" other things.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 08:49 PM
I think essentially it'll be Linehans system, but tweaked a little to incorporate some of Mike's knowledge, but playing to the strengths of Daunte under the auspices of a Scott Linehan system. For Maddox in that system, the differences will be going down the field more, as he's worked in more of a shorter range offense both in Denver and in Pittsburgh.

KB21
03-17-2006, 08:50 PM
Nick was talking about what they would like to do with the quarterback position during the press conference the other day. The Dolphins had some discussions with the Falcons over the availability of Matt Schaub. They look at that situation, and they see one that they would like to be in within two to three years.

The Dolphins have their quarterback of the present and future in Daunte Culpepper. That's not going to stop them from taking a young guy they can bring into the system, develop, and eventually trade off and get great return value in the process. There are always quarterback needy teams in the NFL, and the Dolphins want to put htemselves in a position where they can get in on that action.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 08:53 PM
To follow Keith's thought process there, I really think they see that in a few guys, the main ones being Omar Jacobs, who has tremendous upside, but who needs stripping down and recoaching over a couple of seasons to fix those awful mechanics; and Charlie Whitehurst, who has all the imaginable tools, but who has never quite put it together. But who could develop into a Schaub like figure down the line where we invest a 3rd or a 4th depending on who we're talking about and then cash that in at the Bank for a 1st or a 2nd. It just makes such great sense and is the sort of thing that clearly Nick and Randy are keen on.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 08:55 PM
Yeah Nick was definitely talking about Matt Schaub in that conference. He was basically saying you draft a guy and he develops for a while, he gets the chance to get noticed and voila you can sell him off at a higher price.

BigDogsHunt
03-17-2006, 08:57 PM
And backup RB? Is that as great a need if no Ricky. I know we have Kay Jay and Minor...can they carry the load with Ronnie?

KB21
03-17-2006, 08:58 PM
You can tell Nick has done his homework on this as well. Green Bay employed this policy under Ron Wolf. They traded Mark Brunell back in 1995 for a 3rd and a 5th round pick. They then traded Aaron Brooks, who they got in the 4th round, for a 3rd round pick. They traded Matt Hasselbeck, a 6th round pick, for a 1st round pick. Brunell was drafted in the 5th round.

KB21
03-17-2006, 08:59 PM
And backup RB? Is that as great a need if no Ricky. I know we have Kay Jay and Minor...can they carry the load with Ronnie?

If Ricky were out for the season, Ronnie can carry the load by himself. However, it would be nice to get a guy who can give him a breather. I don't know if that player will come through the draft or if he will be a veteran addition. Right now, I think they will play the Ricky thing out and see what happens.

If they did choose to go with a runner in the draft, then Andre Hall from South Florida is a possible target.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 08:59 PM
And backup RB? Is that as great a need if no Ricky. I know we have Kay Jay and Minor...can they carry the load with Ronnie?

My feeling is they may try and handle that hole in FA if Ricky loses his appeal. They were interested in Michael Bennett for exactly that reason but he just signed with New Orleans I believe.

Dolfan1000
03-17-2006, 08:59 PM
But with no 2nd rounder, I think it would be somewhat risky to take a QB in round 3. We have greater needs IMO. I suppose it all depends on what else gets done in FA- if we sign another DB, a LB, a DL etc. As well, keep in mind, both our 2nd and 6th round picks were "spent" on QBs.

BigDogsHunt
03-17-2006, 09:00 PM
You can tell Nick has done his homework on this as well. Green Bay employed this policy under Ron Wolf. They traded Mark Brunell back in 1995 for a 3rd and a 5th round pick. They then traded Aaron Brooks, who they got in the 4th round, for a 3rd round pick. They traded Matt Hasselbeck, a 6th round pick, for a 1st round pick. Brunell was drafted in the 5th round.

True, and what I always found to be funny was that they traded to get Favre and didnt draft him themselves! :wink:

Phins28
03-17-2006, 09:04 PM
Hey guys do you see the Dolphins taking Chad Jackson at 16?

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 09:04 PM
But with no 2nd rounder, I think it would be somewhat risky to take a QB in round 3. We have greater needs IMO. I suppose it all depends on what else gets done in FA- if we sign another DB, a LB, a DL etc. As well, keep in mind, both our 2nd and 6th round picks were "spent" on QBs.

Just making up for lost investment. There was virtually no effective investment in the QB position under Wannstedt and it showed. We spent a late late pick on Heupel and he busted out before we even got him to camp. We spent a 5th on Sage Rosenfels only to keep him 3rd on the depth chart forever. We spent a 2nd on Feeley and don't even get me started on that.

ckparrothead
03-17-2006, 09:06 PM
Hey guys do you see the Dolphins taking Chad Jackson at 16?

Keith sure does!

Dolfan1000
03-17-2006, 09:08 PM
I think if we do further improve the D in FA (Peterson/Arrington/Allen/Law/Schulters etc.), its a good possibility.

KB21
03-17-2006, 09:09 PM
Hey guys do you see the Dolphins taking Chad Jackson at 16?

I think that is a definite possibility.

dolphinfan2k5
03-17-2006, 09:14 PM
I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I like the idea of the full color bound draft book. I think it would be nice to have a book with all of your views on players that we should draft, steals, etc in an easy to read and colorful format. I, however, wouldn't pay 20-30 bucks for any draft book because the information changes so much and by the time opinions are set, the draft is only a few weeks away. You could avoid that by printing and selling in mid-late February, but then players stocks rise and fall so much, it becomes semi-inaccurate. I just don't see many people paying for this stuff.

rhadaddy
03-17-2006, 09:18 PM
I personally voted for the unprecedent fan access jump off. The prices are cool considering the information and the direct access to having your questions answered.

With that said, I'm kinda dispointed with the high rate of are you nuts responses, considering the Ask Boomer thread has almost 1000 posts and over 50k views.

Keep up the good work fellas.

Boomer
03-17-2006, 09:21 PM
I personally voted for the unprecedent fan access jump off. The prices are cool considering the information and the direct access to having your questions answered.

With that said, I'm kinda dispointed with the high rate of are you nuts responses, considering the Ask Boomer thread has almost 1000 posts and over 50k views.

Keep up the good work fellas.

Cheers dude. Right I'm off to bed.

Tomorrow men, is another day closer.

Y-TownPhinVet
03-17-2006, 09:27 PM
I voted for several things, the newsletter, the book and live draft chat. What I really like about these potential services, is that they are Dolphin related. I really don't care who the Bills draft, but the sole attention on the Fins is very intiguing. There are so many draft gurus and such, to have not one but three well respected members of this site would be well worth getting this info without spending countless hours reading some gurus draft predictions that never pan out anyway. Great idea guys, I always look forward to your input.

Dolfan1000
03-17-2006, 09:27 PM
Boomer- I remember a name you mentioned before Free Agency was Dashon Polk. Any word on him signing?

If you had to pick- Julian Peterson or Lavar Arrington?

Any other FAs out there you see as possibilities?

Dolfan2788
03-17-2006, 10:14 PM
I'd buy the newsletter and the draft guide

BigDogsHunt
03-17-2006, 11:57 PM
Boys, chew on this:

I think it would be very interesting if Allen, Cromatie, and Hill are on the board at 16 at CB, and Bunkley and Watson at DT, and Greenway at OLB, and Chad Jackson at WR.

What would you do besides jump up and down? What does Saban do then?

themole
03-18-2006, 12:17 AM
60% of you so far think we're nuts and wouldn't pay for any info.

That's cool. All helps with the knowledge.

You guys keep it up. You are doing a pretty nice job of selling it with this Tag team approach. I'm getting a little long in the tooth now and didn't think it would matter to me at first glance. So I voted with the 60%. I would most likely go with the $5 per month internet special. I can remember in 1966 dashing out to the local news stand to get the Herald, to see who my states brand new professional AFL football team had drafted. That would be the extent of the Dolphins news for us up here in NOFLA until the season officially started and until many years later Mr. Curtis gave us the Dolphin Digest. Only problem with it was, the season would be half over before snail mail could deliver it. Then came the Internet & Curt Fennell & Fiheaven. I still get just as excited over the Miami Dolphins as I did when I was 18 years old in 1966. So yeah...if your service will be offered through Finheaven, I'd be willing to give it a go.

Show Me Your TDs
03-18-2006, 12:27 AM
I would like to see the Draft Guide Bound. It would be nice to hear your opinions on Miami's preferences with prospects.

Question: is their a general assumption that Jay Cutler will be picked in the top ten even with the recent QB movement? Do you foresee any possiblities where he falls on draft day? What round have you guys graded Omar Jacobs? What about Brodie Croyle?

Show Me Your TDs
03-18-2006, 12:30 AM
What DBs do you guys like in the 3rd round if we don't go that route in round 1?

xDOLPHINSx
03-18-2006, 12:36 AM
You guys have basically changed my life, lol. I am a HUGE fan of the Dolphins and football in general. I live in MN so i dont have any one to talk with about the Dolphins. This year i found this site and i have loved it since. Getting info about draft situations gets me soooo pumped for the season. I voted with the 60% basically because i dont have a credit card just yet (just turned 18), and i was figuring thats how you would do it. But if this is for next year (I didn't scroll down and read that part) I would totally be up for paying you guys. I think i have read every page of the "Ask Boomer Thread." Its hard to say what i would prefer tho, the weekly e-mail sounds interesting, but I like how we get to ask you guys questions, so maybe the Q&A thing would be better. Maybe a combo of the two, emails based on the things you guys want to say and your strong opinions, and then a VIP Q&A forum where we get to ask questions. $5-$10 seems pretty reasonable for both of these. Seriously, the "Ask Boomer Thread" has made me very excited in the offseason, in which I'm not used too. Any way, keep up the great work, I love hearing what you guys have to say about our Dolphins.

Ok time for a question. Do you think Will Poole can start next year, and how will he perform? I liked him when he was a rookie, but will he be able to recover from that injury? Do we possibly have our starting cb's right now in Daniels and Poole? I don't see how Cromartie (im hoping) could come in and start over either of them.

thanks again guys, the offseason has a whole new meaning. :)

cnc66
03-18-2006, 12:39 AM
I voted for all three internet services and will support whatever effort they decide to make. I have been reading these guys for six years now and really they are responsible for much of the enjoyment I get from being involved in the draft. From the old Herald board and Curt's place to here over the years they have answered my questions and helped me along. So, I'm in.

KB21
03-18-2006, 12:44 AM
I would like to see the Draft Guide Bound. It would be nice to hear your opinions on Miami's preferences with prospects.

Question: is their a general assumption that Jay Cutler will be picked in the top ten even with the recent QB movement? Do you foresee any possiblities where he falls on draft day? What round have you guys graded Omar Jacobs? What about Brodie Croyle?

I can't speak for Boomer and CK on this, but I can give you my opinion on the three quarterbacks you mentioned.

Jay Cutler is my #1 rated quarterback, period. One thing that has prepared him better for the league than either Matt Leinart or Vince Young is the fact that Jay has been hit, and he has been hit a lot. Yet, he still made plays and single handedly made Vanderbilt a respectable team this past season with a near victory over Florida and a victory over Tennessee. Jay Cutler has the arm strength that I look for in a quarterback. His arm is very powerful. He puts a lot of velocity on his passes, and he can make all the stick throws. He's also very nimble on his feet within the pocket, and when he has to, he can gain positive yards with his legs. Many don't like his gunslinger mentality, but I think it is a plus. Yeah, he's going to commit some turnovers in the NFL because he has a lot of confidence in his arm, but he's also going to make a lot of big plays. There is absolutely no reason he shouldn't be the first quarterback taken in this draft, but some people are going to look at the fact that he played a Vanderbilt and downgrade him simply because of that.

I really have serious questions about Matt Leinart's arm strength. I think he has a great head on his shoulders, shows excellent field vision, and is a master of the touch pass. However, based on what I've seen, the touch pass is the majority of his passes. In the NFL, you can't float the 10 yard out to the receiver with an NFL caliber cornerback in coverage. I have not consistently seen the ability to load up and drill the stick throws from Matt Leinart. I think he will do fine on the downfield throws, because he is accurate and has great touch. I seriously question his ability to throw the deep out patterns though. Also, Matt played in a pro style offense, so mentally and technically he is prepared for the NFL. However, he's not going to have the advantage he had at USC when it comes to having superior talent around him relative to the team he is playing.

I do not like Vince Young at all. I see a guy that is very sloppy in his technique, has no readability skills in the pocket, and simply looks to take off and run whenever he gets the chance. It's going to take a lot of work and patience for this guy to ever be able to play quarterback at the NFL level. Mentally, he simply doesn't have it. Physically, he could be a good quarterback if he would allow a coach to change his mechanics. I think Vince Young is nothing the the product of intense media hype at this point, because I have seen very little substance when I evaluate him as a quarterback. He's a great athlete, but he is a below average quarterback prospect. Due to his athleticism, I'd draft him in the first round as a project wide receiver, but I wouldn't touch this guy till the second day of the draft as a quarterback. This guy is going to get a head coach fired in the NFL.

Omar Jacobs is a guy that I do like though. Omar has horrible mechanics, but they work for him. He's got a powerful and accurate arm, moves around well in the pocket, and most importantly, is a passer. In fact, Omar is a player that avoids running with the ball like it was the plague. He can do it if he absolutely has to, but he'd much rather throw a 15 yard pass than make a 10 yard run. I think that is the type of mentality you have to have to play quarterback in the NFL. As far as his mechanics go, he kind of pushes the ball, but he showed at the combine that it works for him. He threw the ball down the field with a lot of accuracy in the passing drills. I don't like the offense he was in at Bowling Green though, and I do not feel that offense has prepared him for the NFL. Omar is a project that could pay off big down the road. I think he is a third round pick that will need a couple of years of coaching, but he will be a good one down the road. I thin he's a guy that many will look back upon in three years and say "Wow, that guy was a steal."

I like Brodie Croyle as far as his passing skills go. As a pure passer, I'd rate him as the third best prospect in this draft. I can't get over his lack of size though. He's a shade under 6'3" and about 205 lbs, but he is extremely thin in his build. I'm not sure he will be able to gain much more weight at the NFL level, and given his injury history, his lack of size is a definite red flag. However, Brodie has a very strong arm and a very good head on his shoulders. He's a leader, pure and simple, and he has the type of attitude that you never count out. If there is a player that can overcome size limitations, it is Brodie Croyle.

KB21
03-18-2006, 12:55 AM
What DBs do you guys like in the 3rd round if we don't go that route in round 1?

A couple of guys that I'm looking at as possibilities in the third round are Marcus Maxey from Miami and Derrick Martin from Wyoming. Both are excellent athletes who are getting third to fourth round grades right now. On draft day, I think both will end up in the third round because I am anticipating a run on defensive backs at some point.

Maxey has impressive size at around 6'2", 200 lbs. He tested out very well after having a great season for Miami this year, his first as a starter. I really respect the defensive backs that come out of that Miami program, because the coaches there know how to get a DB ready to play in the NFL. He's not quite as good of a prospect as Kelly Jennings, mainly because Maxey is as raw as a baby's bottom with a rash, but he has a great deal of potential.

Derrick Martin is one of the top athletes at the cornerback position in the draft. He doesn't have Maxey's height, but he has very good size nontheless. Martin is 5'11", 200 lbs, and he tested out extremely well at the combine. Not many know about him because he played at Wyoming. I'm interested in seeing a bit more film on him myself.

Daniel Manning from Abilene Christian is a small school guy who will probably settle in somewhere in the third round. I haven't seen film on this guy yet, but CK has. From talking to CK, Daniel didn't distinguish himself very much. A lot of people like him though because of his size, around 5'11", 210 lbs, and his speed (4.4).

There could be good value at the safety position in the third round area. I really like Roman Harper from Alabama. I don't know that he fits what the Dolphins want to do, because he's not a stand out when it comes to coverage. What he is though is a very solid safety that has great instincts and tackles very well. He makes plays on the ball in a short area, but I think he's going to have some trouble defending down the field in the NFL.

Marcus Hudson from North Carolina State is an interesting prospect that could project as a safety or a cornerback, as he has played both in the past. He reminds me a little bit of Madieu Williams who plays free safety with the Bengals. He's got very good ball skills and good size (6'1", 197 lbs).

PHINATIC13
03-18-2006, 12:56 AM
KB,Boomer and ck I've learned so much just reading your posts I would like to say thanks to you all. I voted for the $5 options.

KB21
03-18-2006, 12:59 AM
You guys have basically changed my life, lol. I am a HUGE fan of the Dolphins and football in general. I live in MN so i dont have any one to talk with about the Dolphins. This year i found this site and i have loved it since. Getting info about draft situations gets me soooo pumped for the season. I voted with the 60% basically because i dont have a credit card just yet (just turned 18), and i was figuring thats how you would do it. But if this is for next year (I didn't scroll down and read that part) I would totally be up for paying you guys. I think i have read every page of the "Ask Boomer Thread." Its hard to say what i would prefer tho, the weekly e-mail sounds interesting, but I like how we get to ask you guys questions, so maybe the Q&A thing would be better. Maybe a combo of the two, emails based on the things you guys want to say and your strong opinions, and then a VIP Q&A forum where we get to ask questions. $5-$10 seems pretty reasonable for both of these. Seriously, the "Ask Boomer Thread" has made me very excited in the offseason, in which I'm not used too. Any way, keep up the great work, I love hearing what you guys have to say about our Dolphins.

Ok time for a question. Do you think Will Poole can start next year, and how will he perform? I liked him when he was a rookie, but will he be able to recover from that injury? Do we possibly have our starting cb's right now in Daniels and Poole? I don't see how Cromartie (im hoping) could come in and start over either of them.

thanks again guys, the offseason has a whole new meaning. :)


Thanks for the comments, and that is a very good question.

Will Poole can flat out play!! If any of you remember some of Boomer's work before the 2004 draft, he had Will Poole rated as the #1 cornerback in that entire draft. Miami got him in the 4th round because some teams took him off their board for some off the field issues he had in the past. He also didn't have a great forty time because he was sick with the flu when he worked out for the NFL scouts. I thought he was one of the top rookie defensive backs in the NFL during his rookie season. He played very well in the nickle sets and when he got the opportunity to start for an injured Patrick Surtain. Will Poole is a playmaker in the secondary. He's got great instincts and ball skills, and he's got excellent quickness. He is also a very physical player that will flat out hit you.

So yes, the Dolphins could very well have their starting cornerbacks in the fold right now with Will Poole and Travis Daniels.

dolphin23
03-18-2006, 01:16 AM
first of all thanks for all the infos that you guys have donated here in finheaven. I enjoy reading all the insights that all 3 of you contributed. For maketing purposed i have voted for 2 and 5.

Show Me Your TDs
03-18-2006, 01:30 AM
DBs I have been studying for late day one to early day two would be:

CB Derrick Martin
CB DeMario Minter
CB Anwar Phillips
CB Josh Lay
CB Marcus Maxey
CB Darrell Hunter
S Roman Harper
S/CB Marcus Hudson
S Calvin Lowery

Out of the group who do you see with the most potential? I like Maxey and Minter's physical numbers. I like Marcus Hudson's value in the 4th round area with his ability to multiple positions. Another guy that tends to get overlooked is Lowery. Where do you guys feel he will land round wise?

bigbry
03-18-2006, 01:41 AM
Full Color Printed and Bound Draft Guide (non-Subscribers): $30 (plus S/H)

Theres my vote.


BB

thejetssuck
03-18-2006, 08:50 AM
KB21 is a 28 year old genius medical student. He's seen more A's on the report card than your local asian community.


AWESOME!!! Great to know I am not the only knowledgeable science enthusiast on this board!! I will now make it a point to examine more of your threads KB21!! If I had not started college so late, I too would have probably gone the med school route, but i want to start a family before entering my midlife crisis, so i have opted for optometry instead. Anytime you want to chat about science/medicine/dolphins football, you just let me know, I would be more than happy to oblige! FINS RULE!!!:hi5:

Dbergan
03-18-2006, 09:42 AM
I like the idea of a structured draft assessment. Several of the options listed I would pay for and I voted accordingly. You guys are a major part of finheaven....I don't always agree w/ you but I always respect your effort and learn much from your research.

Do it......

rhadaddy
03-18-2006, 10:39 AM
I've read some stuff on Reggie McNeil and everything points to him being a monster QB in this league, however no one is really talking about him. What round do you think he'll go and do you think most teams has him slotted as a WR?

Before we landed Culpepper I was hoping that we could land him in the 2nd or 3rd rd. I guess now it's not much of a need unless we convert him to a wr. I just thinks it's a waste though since he can throw, has the size and can run like the wind. Do you think he's not getting any pub as a result of Vick sortcomings?

Boomer
03-18-2006, 10:50 AM
I've read some stuff on Reggie McNeil and everything points to him being a monster QB in this league, however no one is really talking about him. What round do you think he'll go and do you think most teams has him slotted as a WR?

Before we landed Culpepper I was hoping that we could land him in the 2nd or 3rd rd. I guess now it's not much of a need unless we convert him to a wr. I just thinks it's a waste though since he can throw, has the size and can run like the wind. Do you think he's not getting any pub as a result of Vick sortcomings?

CK is a big fan of Reggie who certainly proved some doubters wrong in the All Star game. There have been a number of rumours that the Texans will select him as highly as the 33rd pick. To me that's a reach, but if anyone can, Kubiak can. We shall see. i think teams would rather see if he can play QB before precipitating any move to WR.

Adam First
03-18-2006, 11:00 AM
I'd rather wait and see, thanks... :wink:

KB21
03-18-2006, 11:02 AM
I've read some stuff on Reggie McNeil and everything points to him being a monster QB in this league, however no one is really talking about him. What round do you think he'll go and do you think most teams has him slotted as a WR?

Before we landed Culpepper I was hoping that we could land him in the 2nd or 3rd rd. I guess now it's not much of a need unless we convert him to a wr. I just thinks it's a waste though since he can throw, has the size and can run like the wind. Do you think he's not getting any pub as a result of Vick sortcomings?

I'm not as high on him as CK is, but I do think that when you compare the pure quarterbacking skills of Reggie McNeal to those of Vince Young, you will see a better quarterback in Reggie McNeal.

However, at around 6'2", 205 lbs, I see him moving to wide receiver in the NFL. I think most teams do as well.

Phins28
03-18-2006, 11:15 AM
I know that you guys are draft gurus but I have a Question about Renaldo Hill, I saw in another web site that he will be the starting strong safety, do you see playing in that position or he will replace Madison as a CB? thanks.

rod557
03-18-2006, 11:44 AM
ck, and boomer. i voted to not pay before i read what u guys where talking about. but i would pay $5 buck for the Q&A. i know that i dont post a whole lot but, i do read alot and only post when i have something legit to say. i love this site and all the inside info you guys give us. U guys make me look smarter at work because i am always giving my buds the inside info. I do how ever give credit to the site all the time. Sorry back to the point, i would pay 5 dollars for all the hard work u guys put in for our benift. Thanks

ckparrothead
03-18-2006, 11:58 AM
I know that you guys are draft gurus but I have a Question about Renaldo Hill, I saw in another web site that he will be the starting strong safety, do you see playing in that position or he will replace Madison as a CB? thanks.

If I had to take a guess right now I would actually say Free Safety IF he starts (which is a big if).

Do you recall Arturo Freeman's role on the team before he became a starter? He was a backup safety at both positions, and played Dime CB, Dime Safety. At worst, Renaldo Hill will work into a similar role, but he could also play CB on nickel downs depending on how our CB situation ends up.

If all goes well for Renaldo, then he may be our starting Right Safety (we have a Left Safety and a Right Safety).

One interesting thing to note about him is the Raider fan sentiment about Renaldo Hill seems to be VERY similar to our own sentiment toward Wes Welker. It is given that his talent is limited, but fans love him because he's a hard worker, always knows exactly what he's doing, and will make plays.

BigDogsHunt
03-18-2006, 12:06 PM
Boys, chew on this:

I think it would be very interesting if Allen, Cromatie, and Hill are on the board at 16 at CB, and Bunkley and Watson at DT, and Greenway at OLB, and Chad Jackson at WR.

What would you do besides jump up and down? What does Saban do then?

repost!

ckparrothead
03-18-2006, 12:06 PM
ck, and boomer. i voted to not pay before i read what u guys where talking about. but i would pay $5 buck for the Q&A. i know that i dont post a whole lot but, i do read alot and only post when i have something legit to say. i love this site and all the inside info you guys give us. U guys make me look smarter at work because i am always giving my buds the inside info. I do how ever give credit to the site all the time. Sorry back to the point, i would pay 5 dollars for all the hard work u guys put in for our benift. Thanks

We appreciate the compliments and the vote, no matter which way you voted. Only about 167 people have voted in this thread but I think the important thing is to gauge what kinds of percentages of Dolphin fans on FH are willing to subscribe to draft coverage from Boomer, KB21, and myself...and what average amount the fans are willing to pay for those kinds of services. That way we can project it out to the number of people that browse this site and figure out if this is a worthwhile project. Remember, despite our passion, we've each got alternate identities. Keith is a medical student now and by next draft will be doing his residency. I'm an equity analyst and that has a lot of time demands. Boomer works with the BBC.

Thanks for your input!

PhinstiGator
03-18-2006, 12:10 PM
1) A subscription service would water down the main Dolphins forum even more...because you would obviously NOT be able to discuss for free what would be detailed in the paid service.

2) There is no way to completely control the subscription material from getting out for free. I'm not a fan of the ESPN or the local newspapers Insider stuff...but, the info still finds it's way on the internet (somewhere) for free.

3) Focus on recruiting more posters to the VIP board. Set a side a portion (percentage) of new recruitees funds to go toward Draft research.

4) It's extremely difficult to scout players without watching as much game tape as possible and getting to actually see them in person. Work toward getting more of that type of "infostructure" together before charging a subscription rate.

5) If a subscription fee is inevitable, then start at an extremely low price that would be inclusive to everyone. Get everyone hooked and then jack up the price. :D

ckparrothead
03-18-2006, 12:11 PM
repost!

Sorry. If that came true my feeling is the pick would be Bunkley. You know I love all of those players but I think Bunkley just rates higher.

The most impressive thing about him, aside from his standout play at FSU, is how he keeps adding weight onto that 6'3" frame seamlessly.

I recently read a quote from a scout about Bunkley. The scout said he was "obviously maxed out at 285 pounds" but they went on to talk about how well he's played and give him all the compliments in the world. Well, I hope that scout took notice that Bunkley showed up at the Senior Bowl at 300 pounds, and then at the Combine at 306 pounds...yet looked just as fast, just as dominant the whole way.

So much for scouts being able to tell which guys can carry more weight and which guys can't. My feeling is there's not much rhyme or reason to that, the only thing you can really go by is history.

At 306 pounds Bunkley was one of the most athletic DTs at the Combine. He's had a dominant career at FSU, and quite frankly I'd have to be tempted to rate him above the "planet theory" guy Haloti Ngata.

tailwalker
03-18-2006, 12:13 PM
Not A bad idea but the draft guides around 15-20 bucks for subscribers and non,I like the emails too but id like info on afc East most.I like to know what the lesser teams are doing(bills ,patsand jets)like 50% miami25%afc east 25% rest of nfl...when would this be ready its already mid march do you have time to write print and ship this year?

PhinstiGator
03-18-2006, 12:19 PM
....4. We do watch reams of film and you'd rarely see Boomer, KB21, or myself comment on a guy that we have NOT watched on film already at some point, and if we do, the three of us are awfully good at prefacing the comment with a note that we've never seen him on film...
I wasn't suggesting that opinions about players were being misrepresented... just that I'm sure that all of you would like to take the research up a few more notches. Creating a 2, 3, & four year portfolio on a multitude of players takes a tremendous amount of time. Formulating first impressions, weaknesses, strengths, and tracking improvements takes an incredible amount of organization and attention to detail. And I'm sure that all three of you will continue to do some of that whether their is money involved or not.

Will the final product be an edited version of collective scouting reports...or, an independent scouting process...or, a blend of the two?

If you are using other peoples work as a basis...it might be difficult to charge cash money. But, if it's an independent work complete with a combine visit...the sky is the limit.

I wish you all success in communicating your passion about the game of football. I was just sharing my initial thoughts about your project...for what it's worth.

KB21
03-18-2006, 12:27 PM
Not A bad idea but the draft guides around 15-20 bucks for subscribers and non,I like the emails too but id like info on afc East most.I like to know what the lesser teams are doing(bills ,patsand jets)like 50% miami25%afc east 25% rest of nfl...when would this be ready its already mid march do you have time to write print and ship this year?

The plan is to roll out with the draft guide for the 2007 draft. Right now, with only 41 days till the draft, we just don't have time to get that up and off the ground. We would do the draft day chat though.

Boomer
03-18-2006, 12:29 PM
I'd rather wait and see, thanks... :wink:

I've been to McDonalds in Port St Lucie.

FACT.

Gardenhead
03-18-2006, 12:30 PM
First off, to borrow an old Shula cliche, I'd like to tip my hat to CK KB & Boomer. The DIY ethic makes the world go round!

That said, I don't like to pay for subscriptions on the internet. I would pay $20 or so for a draft guide focused heavily on the Dolphins and our needs. I like a nice, bound guide for the crapper and on draft day.

Keep up the good work.

Mad Vinny
03-18-2006, 12:31 PM
Guys I voted 1,2 &3. I love the draft guide and the Q&A ideas. I do think the draft guide sould be Genral NFL, not just our beloved fins.(thats what news letter is for) You guys should really market this to the other beasts of the east sites as a lot of their members are here alot. The draft day weekend is growing on me the more i think about it. I dont post alot but am a 3 to 5 times a day lurker. I enjoy reading your posts and love you insight on the guys coming to the NFL. So just wanted to give you the feedback. Thanks for all the hard work.

ckparrothead
03-18-2006, 12:31 PM
1) A subscription service would water down the main Dolphins forum even more...because you would obviously NOT be able to discuss for free what would be detailed in the paid service.

2) There is no way to completely control the subscription material from getting out for free. I'm not a fan of the ESPN or the local newspapers Insider stuff...but, the info still finds it's way on the internet (somewhere) for free.

3) Focus on recruiting more posters to the VIP board. Set a side a portion (percentage) of new recruitees funds to go toward Draft research.

4) It's extremely difficult to scout players without watching as much game tape as possible and getting to actually see them in person. Work toward getting more of that type of "infostructure" together before charging a subscription rate.

5) If a subscription fee is inevitable, then start at an extremely low price that would be inclusive to everyone. Get everyone hooked and then jack up the price. :D

1. As things stand the main forum is already rather watered down, and you'll notice that Boomer, KB21, and myself have not come out here to post for quite a while. We stick to VIP.

2. The email newsletter would be on an honor system as far as forwarding the email, but I am also very confident that FinHeaven will not allow our newsletter to be posted in its entirety on this board. Honestly, how many people are there that WOULD have bought our newsletter in the first place, would start searching through Fin boards besides FinHeaven for a charitable subscriber who decides to rip us off by posting our newsletter? I say not many, so we're not losing out on revenue. First off someone that cares enough to pay us hard-earned dollars for the service, isn't going to want to just give it out for free while he/she has to pay for it. Second, there will be no posting of the newsletters for free on FinHeaven, so it would be awful hard to find someone posting the things elsewhere.

3. We've already focused on getting more VIP members. The Ask Boomer/CK thread nearly doubled VIP membership alone. For this service, we've but asked FinHeaven for one simple favor...to allow us to advertise our own thing.

4. We do watch reams of film and you'd rarely see Boomer, KB21, or myself comment on a guy that we have NOT watched on film already at some point, and if we do, the three of us are awfully good at prefacing the comment with a note that we've never seen him on film.

5. We already did that, by posting our stuff for free all over the board. We feel the poll shows that there are indeed a fair number of people "hooked" and now it is time to raise the bar a bit and go full out with a little unprecedented coverage, organization, and "infostructure" Remember, the draft only comes around once a year. We're not rolling out with much this year BECAUSE we're using this year as a ground floor year to show everyone what we can do for them, and I believe the poll shows we've done that.


Remember what I do for a living man, I'm an equity analyst. I analyze businesses for a living, just like I'd analyze a player. I determine what makes a business strong and what makes a business weak, and what the market is willing to pay for a piece of ownership of that business. In many ways I am setting this up and analyzing this venture in exactly the same ways that I would analyze a public company for stock ownership.

All of the stuff you've brought up, while valid points, have been things that I have already batted around in my head a bit.

Boomer
03-18-2006, 12:36 PM
1) A subscription service would water down the main Dolphins forum even more...because you would obviously NOT be able to discuss for free what would be detailed in the paid service.

2) There is no way to completely control the subscription material from getting out for free. I'm not a fan of the ESPN or the local newspapers Insider stuff...but, the info still finds it's way on the internet (somewhere) for free.

3) Focus on recruiting more posters to the VIP board. Set a side a portion (percentage) of new recruitees funds to go toward Draft research.

4) It's extremely difficult to scout players without watching as much game tape as possible and getting to actually see them in person. Work toward getting more of that type of "infostructure" together before charging a subscription rate.

5) If a subscription fee is inevitable, then start at an extremely low price that would be inclusive to everyone. Get everyone hooked and then jack up the price. :D


I'll address points 3,4 and 5.

Without wanting to sound utterly snobbish about this, the VIP would become just like the 'zoo' if we concentrated on a recruiting drive for that part of the website.

The tape thing is what we do. We all watch tapes and live games. That infrastructure has been there for a long time.

You mention starting at a low price.......$5 is a pretty low price, IMO. It's about £3 in England, which is the cost of a monthly magazine like Maxim, or the price of a coffee and a muffin at Starbucks, etc.

PhinstiGator
03-18-2006, 12:39 PM
Also, about the printed full color bound version...start out simple. Pour your funds into research...not into paper. Create an electronic PDF version that the subscriber could print themselves. That way you lower your overhead costs and still are able to release a high quality full color product.

wyo
03-18-2006, 12:53 PM
Derrick Martin is one of the top athletes at the cornerback position in the draft. He doesn't have Maxey's height, but he has very good size nontheless. Martin is 5'11", 200 lbs, and he tested out extremely well at the combine. Not many know about him because he played at Wyoming. I'm interested in seeing a bit more film on him myself.


I am from Wyoming and follow cowboy football. Martin has great potential. He plays like he is a step ahead of everyone else. He hits hard for a courner. He never got beat (unless it was more of the safety not helping out.)
But the guy that is going to be a steal for some team is the Wyo WR Bouknight. He will remind everyone of Boldin at the NFL level. He was unstoppable even when the defenses were gameplanning against him every snap. He is tough, can make the hard catch (dive and jump) and is hard to tackle. He came in to return kicks in cames where we needed a big play. The other team knew he was in, and he would still run it back for td's.

If you guys don't know who he is. You will soon.

waynek
03-18-2006, 03:01 PM
I am from Wyoming and follow cowboy football. Martin has great potential. He plays like he is a step ahead of everyone else. He hits hard for a courner. He never got beat (unless it was more of the safety not helping out.)
But the guy that is going to be a steal for some team is the Wyo WR Bouknight. He will remind everyone of Boldin at the NFL level. He was unstoppable even when the defenses were gameplanning against him every snap. He is tough, can make the hard catch (dive and jump) and is hard to tackle. He came in to return kicks in cames where we needed a big play. The other team knew he was in, and he would still run it back for td's.

If you guys don't know who he is. You will soon. Amen fellow Cowboy fan I have went to so many Wyoming games the last 4 years and was just amazed at some of the things Jovon did on the football feild from his freshman year to this year. Every one touts Hank Basket from New Mexico as the best reciver to be coming ot of the Moutian West Confrence but if you look up the stats Jovon out played him. The things I read from these draft sites are the lack of big time competition but when given a chance vs schools like UCLA last year in the Las Vegas Bowl and this year in the Folrdia game he showed he can hold his own. He will be a steal for whoever decides to take a chance on him it will be on special teams as a KR for a while but I think he can make someone's roster in the NFL.

sportzz13
03-18-2006, 03:10 PM
I first voted to not to pay, but i didnt not know what it was about. I would be willing to buy the magazine, if it was a reasonable price. I love this websit, and i feel one of the biggest reasons is because of KB and Boomer's info.
As for my question, I go to UCF and I was wondering if the fins would be interseted in Wr Brandon Marshall from UCF. I went to most of the games this year and saw him play. From what I saw, he is a big guy, 6'5, and has the speed to go down the field. Plus, what I love most about him, he is willing to go across the field and make the tought catches. This year UCF had one of its best years in history regarding football, and one of the main reason is because Brandon Marshall. When the game was on the line he came up with big catches and single handly won us a couple games. In fact, when he went down with a injury at the end of the year, we didnt win another game. What do you think about him? Where do you think he will go in the draft?

Dolfan1000
03-18-2006, 03:41 PM
Boomer- I remember a name you mentioned before Free Agency was Dashon Polk. Any word on him signing?

If you had to pick- Julian Peterson or Lavar Arrington?

Any other FAs out there you see as possibilities?

Repost.

:tongue:

Boomer
03-18-2006, 03:59 PM
Repost.

:tongue:

None at all re: Polk which surprises me.

Arrington.

Well a QB, a TE, be it Hannam or Peele, I suspect a G or a C, a defensive tackle, possibly Sam Adams and at least one more defensive back.

Dolfan1000
03-18-2006, 04:03 PM
Thanks, Boom.

Im curious as to why you pick Arrington- is it Peterson's injuries? Because he does have the Saban college ties and has been a dominant player.

Maynard the Hammer
03-18-2006, 04:23 PM
Are you guys nuts? Why would I want to pay you guys for Draft information?that about sums it up

Boomer
03-18-2006, 04:46 PM
that about sums it up[/I]

So glad you bothered stopping by.

YAWN

Boomer
03-18-2006, 04:48 PM
Thanks, Boom.

Im curious as to why you pick Arrington- is it Peterson's injuries? Because he does have the Saban college ties and has been a dominant player.

Pretty much, I can't legitimately think of a player in their prime that has been cut down by such a serious injury that Julian had and then recovered to the way he was before. Arrington could be a beast in this system, especially with players such as Thomas, Taylor, Carter, Schulters and Traylor all in the system. He'll be a medium sized fish in the pond and he'll HAVE to work to gain the trust of these guys.

Dolfan1000
03-18-2006, 04:52 PM
Thanks Boom- I definitely wouldnt complain about getting either :)

Sign S. Adams, then Cromartie in round 1 :)

Maynard the Hammer
03-18-2006, 04:57 PM
So glad you bothered stopping by.

YAWNso glad you are soliciting funds. double yawn

Boomer
03-18-2006, 05:01 PM
so glad you are soliciting funds. double yawn

FLMAO at 'soliciting funds'. Hey, jog on sunshine if you're not interested.

The fact that you dine out on what we provide you for free over the years is neither here nor there.

PHINSfan
03-18-2006, 05:04 PM
60% of you so far think we're nuts and wouldn't pay for any info.

That's cool. All helps with the knowledge.

Simon, I bet that most of those 60% are new people here who dont know the kind of job that you, Ck, and KB do. We who have been here a while absolutelly appreciate you guys work!
Me, personally, I would like the question and answer format best because many of us have a specific question regarding a specific player and it's nice to get a well informed, researched answer from you guys.
Thanks for all your work here..and good luck in this project!

Boomer
03-18-2006, 05:06 PM
Thanks mate

Maynard the Hammer
03-18-2006, 05:07 PM
FLMAO at 'soliciting funds'. Hey, jog on sunshine if you're not interested.

The fact that you dine out on what we provide you for free over the years is neither here nor there.the poll asked for my opinion. i quoted it and said yup thats me. i do enjoy your contribution to the site and respect all you guys. but all the in-depth draft stuff just doesnt interest me. i wouldn't pay $5 for bigger and better info from kiper himself

i have no problem with you guys doing it on this site, btw.

Boomer
03-18-2006, 05:09 PM
Well then I apologise for my tone.

Maynard the Hammer
03-18-2006, 05:13 PM
Well then I apologise for my tone.i could have been a bit nicer too. :D

MNFINFAN
03-18-2006, 07:09 PM
I would do the chat, more for the camaraderie rather than the knowledge, cause I really don't know enough to care for any of the other options. However I think that the knowledge that you three put out is awesome and you deserve to be rewarded for it in monetarily. Quite frankly your track record from the last few drafts put you ahead of the Kipers of the word who flip flop back and forth each week for the popular opinion.

themole
03-18-2006, 09:44 PM
I can't speak for Boomer and CK on this, but I can give you my opinion on the three quarterbacks you mentioned.

Jay Cutler is my #1 rated quarterback, period. One thing that has prepared him better for the league than either Matt Leinart or Vince Young is the fact that Jay has been hit, and he has been hit a lot. Yet, he still made plays and single handedly made Vanderbilt a respectable team this past season with a near victory over Florida and a victory over Tennessee. Jay Cutler has the arm strength that I look for in a quarterback. His arm is very powerful. He puts a lot of velocity on his passes, and he can make all the stick throws. He's also very nimble on his feet within the pocket, and when he has to, he can gain positive yards with his legs. Many don't like his gunslinger mentality, but I think it is a plus. Yeah, he's going to commit some turnovers in the NFL because he has a lot of confidence in his arm, but he's also going to make a lot of big plays. There is absolutely no reason he shouldn't be the first quarterback taken in this draft, but some people are going to look at the fact that he played a Vanderbilt and downgrade him simply because of that.

I really have serious questions about Matt Leinart's arm strength. I think he has a great head on his shoulders, shows excellent field vision, and is a master of the touch pass. However, based on what I've seen, the touch pass is the majority of his passes. In the NFL, you can't float the 10 yard out to the receiver with an NFL caliber cornerback in coverage. I have not consistently seen the ability to load up and drill the stick throws from Matt Leinart. I think he will do fine on the downfield throws, because he is accurate and has great touch. I seriously question his ability to throw the deep out patterns though. Also, Matt played in a pro style offense, so mentally and technically he is prepared for the NFL. However, he's not going to have the advantage he had at USC when it comes to having superior talent around him relative to the team he is playing.

I do not like Vince Young at all. I see a guy that is very sloppy in his technique, has no readability skills in the pocket, and simply looks to take off and run whenever he gets the chance. It's going to take a lot of work and patience for this guy to ever be able to play quarterback at the NFL level. Mentally, he simply doesn't have it. Physically, he could be a good quarterback if he would allow a coach to change his mechanics. I think Vince Young is nothing the the product of intense media hype at this point, because I have seen very little substance when I evaluate him as a quarterback. He's a great athlete, but he is a below average quarterback prospect. Due to his athleticism, I'd draft him in the first round as a project wide receiver, but I wouldn't touch this guy till the second day of the draft as a quarterback. This guy is going to get a head coach fired in the NFL.

Omar Jacobs is a guy that I do like though. Omar has horrible mechanics, but they work for him. He's got a powerful and accurate arm, moves around well in the pocket, and most importantly, is a passer. In fact, Omar is a player that avoids running with the ball like it was the plague. He can do it if he absolutely has to, but he'd much rather throw a 15 yard pass than make a 10 yard run. I think that is the type of mentality you have to have to play quarterback in the NFL. As far as his mechanics go, he kind of pushes the ball, but he showed at the combine that it works for him. He threw the ball down the field with a lot of accuracy in the passing drills. I don't like the offense he was in at Bowling Green though, and I do not feel that offense has prepared him for the NFL. Omar is a project that could pay off big down the road. I think he is a third round pick that will need a couple of years of coaching, but he will be a good one down the road. I thin he's a guy that many will look back upon in three years and say "Wow, that guy was a steal."

I like Brodie Croyle as far as his passing skills go. As a pure passer, I'd rate him as the third best prospect in this draft. I can't get over his lack of size though. He's a shade under 6'3" and about 205 lbs, but he is extremely thin in his build. I'm not sure he will be able to gain much more weight at the NFL level, and given his injury history, his lack of size is a definite red flag. However, Brodie has a very strong arm and a very good head on his shoulders. He's a leader, pure and simple, and he has the type of attitude that you never count out. If there is a player that can overcome size limitations, it is Brodie Croyle.


KB, I'm curious as to your opinion of Charles Sharon, WR from Bowling Green. He's one of my hometown boys and is of solid charactor. He had a very good career at BG but how will that translate to the NFL if at all?

KB21
03-18-2006, 10:42 PM
KB, I'm curious as to your opinion of Charles Sharon, WR from Bowling Green. He's one of my hometown boys and is of solid charactor. He had a very good career at BG but how will that translate to the NFL if at all?

I've got to be honest. When I watched Bowling Green this season, I concentrated on Omar Jacobs. Charles Sharon didn't jump out at me, so I really can't say anything about him. This is one of those situations where I'd have to take a look at Omar's games again, and watch Sharon instead.

phinfan77
03-19-2006, 11:50 AM
I would be interested in paying for some of the draft coverage you give. The "ask boomer" thread is always a favorite of mine to read. I would like to know: does finheaven get a portion of the money, or is this a seperate venture for the three of you?

also-- have you thought of doing a printed copy of the dolphins draft itself?
Just a few pictures, some stats and your three's opinion of the players strenghs and weaknesses. Hell, i would like that for the 20005 draft as well.

saves
03-19-2006, 11:57 AM
KB, I'm curious as to your opinion of Charles Sharon, WR from Bowling Green. He's one of my hometown boys and is of solid charactor. He had a very good career at BG but how will that translate to the NFL if at all?

I'll help you out here KB. Sharon has been an dynamic return man for the falcons as well as their best deep recieving threat. He and fellow reciever Steve Sanders shattered BG recieving records.

He plays fast, but won't give you a blazing 40 time. He has a knack for making the big play, but on the flip side drops more than he should.

He dropped a for sure walk in TD against Wisconsin early in the year that I believe could have won BG the game, and if that happened we wouldn't be talking about Omar in the 3rd round, the success of the team would have vaulted him much higher.

There are a few big knocks on him as a prospect though.
Size-6' 180 is good if your a burner, but he dosn't have high end speed.
Measurables-4.68 and 4.59 isn't what I expected out of him. Even more dissapointing was a 31 inch vert, I thought jumping would be his strength.
Hands- Too many drops for my liking.
System- His numbers were definatly inflated by a very WR friendly system


I think he grades out the be a possible late round pick but more than likely a UFA. He could stick with a team as a 4 or 5 option at WR is he can show improvement in his hands. His teammate Sanders is a better prospect on account of size and better measurables.

I always though Sharon played like a poor mans Chambers for BG though. He leaves big shoes to fill in terms of production.

rasta1966
03-19-2006, 01:21 PM
I would be interested in for sure 1 and 3, have you thought however of offering all products for one discounted price paid in January. Not that the prices you listed are not very good but you know everyone looks for a deal. The cheap *** bast**ds that we are lol

sportzz13
03-19-2006, 01:43 PM
what do you guys think about Brandon Marshall from UCF?

themole
03-19-2006, 04:06 PM
I'll help you out here KB. Sharon has been an dynamic return man for the falcons as well as their best deep recieving threat. He and fellow reciever Steve Sanders shattered BG recieving records.

He plays fast, but won't give you a blazing 40 time. He has a knack for making the big play, but on the flip side drops more than he should.

He dropped a for sure walk in TD against Wisconsin early in the year that I believe could have won BG the game, and if that happened we wouldn't be talking about Omar in the 3rd round, the success of the team would have vaulted him much higher.

There are a few big knocks on him as a prospect though.
Size-6' 180 is good if your a burner, but he dosn't have high end speed.
Measurables-4.68 and 4.59 isn't what I expected out of him. Even more dissapointing was a 31 inch vert, I thought jumping would be his strength.
Hands- Too many drops for my liking.
System- His numbers were definatly inflated by a very WR friendly system


I think he grades out the be a possible late round pick but more than likely a UFA. He could stick with a team as a 4 or 5 option at WR is he can show improvement in his hands. His teammate Sanders is a better prospect on account of size and better measurables.




Thanks for the info Saves. If you are up to speed on all draft prospects, I have three more homeboys I'm interested in. The Coley twins from Southern Miss. and Darcy Johnson UCF. Speed might be a issue with them also.

Honestly, I thought Charles had more speed than that.

ryoung8918
03-19-2006, 05:17 PM
First, Boom, CK, KB, I have great respect for your obvious knowledge of football, draft and the Dolphins. If I paid for any football news, you'd have a service I'd consider. I just don't like the trend of paying for news and analysis. I pretty much spend no time on ESPN.com anymore because there is almost no information available to non-"insiders". (their pay service) I can see where you'd have a nice service for Dolphin fans.

I would have liked a poll choice like, "While I respect your knowledge and right to profit from it, I am not interested in paying for such a service." Good luck in your endeavors and stop by the "zoo" from time to time.:)

saves
03-19-2006, 08:39 PM
Thanks for the info Saves. If you are up to speed on all draft prospects, I have three more homeboys I'm interested in. The Coley twins from Southern Miss. and Darcy Johnson UCF. Speed might be a issue with them also.

Honestly, I thought Charles had more speed than that.

You'll have to wait for a visit from one of the main men to get more information on those guys, I guess you could say I'm a Ohio Schools specialist in regards to draft prospects.:lol:

And honestly, I thought he did too. He plays alot faster than that, and was a hell of a deep threat for Omar and was an exciting guy to see return a punt. Hopefully he gets a good fair shot somewhere.

Paul 13
03-20-2006, 12:51 AM
Curious what your thoughts are on Ingle Martin, QB from Furman, thanks!

Back to the topic at hand... while I do like the idea of having Dolphins only draft coverage, I'm not sure about how many would be willing to pay for it. There are many ways fans can research info on players before and after the draft, if they have their heart set on finding such information.

big0mar
03-20-2006, 01:11 AM
how do you guys get a hold of all the video you guys watch???

ckparrothead
03-20-2006, 10:58 AM
I would be interested in paying for some of the draft coverage you give. The "ask boomer" thread is always a favorite of mine to read. I would like to know: does finheaven get a portion of the money, or is this a seperate venture for the three of you?

also-- have you thought of doing a printed copy of the dolphins draft itself?
Just a few pictures, some stats and your three's opinion of the players strenghs and weaknesses. Hell, i would like that for the 20005 draft as well.

Thank you for your input!

I think that would actually have to be a product we consider offering, now that you've brought it up. Or maybe it would be something that we odd on to one of the existing products or services, in order to sweeten the deal and entice more people to buy from us.

Inevitably with printing costs as they are, a lot of stuff that we know about players is going to be condensed a bit in the draft guide itself because we need to fit commentary in there for about 200 players or something like that. No doubt when the Dolphins pick their guys, Dolphin fans will want something a little more in-depth.

So, we could do something like, if you pay for all 3 months of the email newsletter, you get a special post-draft newsletter with detailed information on all of the Dolphins' draft picks.

A printed thing might not be a great option, just because of printing and binding costs. The Draft Guide is feasible because we can offer it for about $20 or $30 (remember, the original idea was the Draft Guide would cost $20 to people who are already subscribers to the email, $30 to those that do not subscribe). But doing a whole separate print job for the Miami Draft Evaluation might not be so feasible just because we'd want to sell that for only about $5 or $10...and it might cost that much just to print it.

ckparrothead
03-20-2006, 11:01 AM
I would be interested in for sure 1 and 3, have you thought however of offering all products for one discounted price paid in January. Not that the prices you listed are not very good but you know everyone looks for a deal. The cheap *** bast**ds that we are lol

That's definitely an option. If you added up all of the prices, $15+5+20+5=$45, perhaps we could package up a "Gold Membership" (hah, how cheesy) where you get the whole shebang for $35 in January.

That's a great idea. Thanks for the input.

ckparrothead
03-20-2006, 11:06 AM
First, Boom, CK, KB, I have great respect for your obvious knowledge of football, draft and the Dolphins. If I paid for any football news, you'd have a service I'd consider. I just don't like the trend of paying for news and analysis. I pretty much spend no time on ESPN.com anymore because there is almost no information available to non-"insiders". (their pay service) I can see where you'd have a nice service for Dolphin fans.

I would have liked a poll choice like, "While I respect your knowledge and right to profit from it, I am not interested in paying for such a service." Good luck in your endeavors and stop by the "zoo" from time to time.:)

I completely understand my man and I've been in your shoes...frustrating especially on ESPN as you've pointed out. Everything has gone pay membership. I feel a little better about doing this for draft stuff though because people have always paid for detailed, thoughtful draft analysis. The whole industry has been a pay industry since I can remember.

Every vote counts! My fifth option was just a joke, I understand that people voting for it really just mean they can't afford or are not given to paying money for football analysis! I would much rather have you tell the truth and vote No, giving us a good idea of what percentage of Dolfans are not willing to pay us for draft coverage, than have you vote Yes just to make us feel better then find out that hardly anyone is willing to put their money where their votes were.

phinfan77
03-20-2006, 11:10 AM
Thank you for your input!

I think that would actually have to be a product we consider offering, now that you've brought it up. Or maybe it would be something that we odd on to one of the existing products or services, in order to sweeten the deal and entice more people to buy from us.

Inevitably with printing costs as they are, a lot of stuff that we know about players is going to be condensed a bit in the draft guide itself because we need to fit commentary in there for about 200 players or something like that. No doubt when the Dolphins pick their guys, Dolphin fans will want something a little more in-depth.

So, we could do something like, if you pay for all 3 months of the email newsletter, you get a special post-draft newsletter with detailed information on all of the Dolphins' draft picks.

A printed thing might not be a great option, just because of printing and binding costs. The Draft Guide is feasible because we can offer it for about $20 or $30 (remember, the original idea was the Draft Guide would cost $20 to people who are already subscribers to the email, $30 to those that do not subscribe). But doing a whole separate print job for the Miami Draft Evaluation might not be so feasible just because we'd want to sell that for only about $5 or $10...and it might cost that much just to print it.

let me know what direction you and boomer head with this please. I'd like to keep informed.

ckparrothead
03-20-2006, 11:34 AM
what do you guys think about Brandon Marshall from UCF?

He's a biiiiig guy but a very fluid athlete for such a big guy. He stands at probably around 6'5" 230 pounds on most days...but his body is built very much like Mike Williams, who was drafted top 10 overall. When I say that I mean he's got a long, lean wide receiver's body...not a bulky tight end's body. Marques Colston looks on the bulkier side and he's the same size as Marshall.

What is great about Marshall is that he's got very quick fluid hips for his size. He is innately strong, and if smaller corners try to bump him at the line they had better be prepared because at times he can quite legally just toss them to the ground because he's so big and strong.

Everyone likes to talk about speed but this guy can shift 1st through 4th gear the same as most of the guys who are smaller and are supposed to be much faster. In fact, some might say his 2nd gear is near the top echelon of receivers. The problem is when he needs to shift into 5th gear, he just doesn't have it. Some have claimed he ran a 40 in the 4.4's and I am not sure I believe that. He ran about a 4.50 from accounts I've read, maybe a little bit slower. The thing to note is that although his top gear just isn't there compared with say, the top gear of a Chad Jackson, his first couple of gears are there, evidenced by his solid 10 and 20 yard splits.

In the tapes you'll notice that the deeper the route, the more time the corner has to catch up to Marshall. But that often won't matter because if it's a high ball Marshall's going to pluck it out of the sky and there's usually not much a corner can do about it. Also, as a junior the golden knights suffered so many injuries in the secondary that he became their starting safety, and led the team in tackles. His experience in the secondary seems to have helped him understand some concepts on offense better on how to hurt a defense. As a result he does seem to have a good feel for finding the holes between zones.

It's tough to say where he should go. He's fast for his incredible size but he's not lets say, Matt Jones freak of nature fast. He's great going up on jump balls and I doubt many corners would want to bump him at the line. If you believe TerryTate, he overheard a Patriots scout at Marshall's pro day workout mention the possibility that they take Marshall in Round 1 even. I'm not sure how much I believe that, whether the scout was purposely saying that aloud to have people overhear it, or whether he was referring to Richard Marshall of Fresno State. Either way I have Marshall among my top 10 WRs in the draft and I think he's a solid round 3 pick.

ckparrothead
03-20-2006, 11:41 AM
how do you guys get a hold of all the video you guys watch???

Sometimes we get video from people we know. I believe Boomer has most of his video sent to him. Mostly Keith and I just get video from network television, but with the help of TIVO/DVR stuff, we can actually watch a whole lot of games.

themole
03-20-2006, 11:51 AM
CK, what's your take on Darcy Johnson? Think he will make a team?

sportzz13
03-20-2006, 11:52 AM
He's a biiiiig guy but a very fluid athlete for such a big guy. He stands at probably around 6'5" 230 pounds on most days...but his body is built very much like Mike Williams, who was drafted top 10 overall. When I say that I mean he's got a long, lean wide receiver's body...not a bulky tight end's body. Marques Colston looks on the bulkier side and he's the same size as Marshall.

What is great about Marshall is that he's got very quick fluid hips for his size. He is innately strong, and if smaller corners try to bump him at the line they had better be prepared because at times he can quite legally just toss them to the ground because he's so big and strong.

Everyone likes to talk about speed but this guy can shift 1st through 4th gear the same as most of the guys who are smaller and are supposed to be much faster. In fact, some might say his 2nd gear is near the top echelon of receivers. The problem is when he needs to shift into 5th gear, he just doesn't have it. Some have claimed he ran a 40 in the 4.4's and I am not sure I believe that. He ran about a 4.50 from accounts I've read, maybe a little bit slower. The thing to note is that although his top gear just isn't there compared with say, the top gear of a Chad Jackson, his first couple of gears are there, evidenced by his solid 10 and 20 yard splits.

In the tapes you'll notice that the deeper the route, the more time the corner has to catch up to Marshall. But that often won't matter because if it's a high ball Marshall's going to pluck it out of the sky and there's usually not much a corner can do about it. Also, as a junior the golden knights suffered so many injuries in the secondary that he became their starting safety, and led the team in tackles. His experience in the secondary seems to have helped him understand some concepts on offense better on how to hurt a defense. As a result he does seem to have a good feel for finding the holes between zones.

It's tough to say where he should go. He's fast for his incredible size but he's not lets say, Matt Jones freak of nature fast. He's great going up on jump balls and I doubt many corners would want to bump him at the line. If you believe TerryTate, he overheard a Patriots scout at Marshall's pro day workout mention the possibility that they take Marshall in Round 1 even. I'm not sure how much I believe that, whether the scout was purposely saying that aloud to have people overhear it, or whether he was referring to Richard Marshall of Fresno State. Either way I have Marshall among my top 10 WRs in the draft and I think he's a solid round 3 pick.

Thanks for the info. You are the man!! I would love to pick him up in the third or fourth round if we dont pick WR in the 1st round. I go to UCF and I loved watching him play in the gold and black. It would be awsome if i could see him play in the aqua and orange. :evil:

ckparrothead
03-20-2006, 04:15 PM
CK, what's your take on Darcy Johnson? Think he will make a team?

Whoa, I haven't even heard of the guy...and that's saying a bunch. Not to sound arrogant or anything, but if I haven't even heard of him...chances are he's just cannon fodder.

themole
03-20-2006, 04:44 PM
Whoa, I haven't even heard of the guy...and that's saying a bunch. Not to sound arrogant or anything, but if I haven't even heard of him...chances are he's just cannon fodder.

T.E. UCF CK.

big0mar
03-20-2006, 04:46 PM
where do you guys get your info regarding combine results/pro-day workouts?

big0mar
03-20-2006, 04:48 PM
where do you rank leonard pope among this year's TE class?

P.S. Darcy Johnson is nowhere near an NFL caliber player

ckparrothead
03-20-2006, 05:52 PM
where do you rank leonard pope among this year's TE class?

P.S. Darcy Johnson is nowhere near an NFL caliber player

#2 TE in the draft probably. At least, that's where I've got him right now. The Bears could take him. The Broncos could as well. This year has a good crop of TEs. Klopfenstein, Fasano, Byrd, Lewis, and Pope...any (but not all) of those guys could end up at the bottom of the first round. There is a lot of disagreement among teams over which guy is the 2nd best TE in the draft. Some feel Klop, some Byrd, some Pope, some Lewis. Not sure if anyone considers Fasano the 2nd best but I think some consider him 3rd best.

themole
03-20-2006, 06:04 PM
where do you rank leonard pope among this year's TE class?

P.S. Darcy Johnson is nowhere near an NFL caliber player


Thanks bigOmar. Last I saw him play was HS.

Boomer
03-20-2006, 07:42 PM
how do you guys get a hold of all the video you guys watch???

Watch/tape games that are on TV. I also use a tape service called Pontel.

www.pontel.com.

Boomer
03-20-2006, 07:44 PM
where do you guys get your info regarding combine results/pro-day workouts?

NFL.com, TFY, etc.

I always read the papers in as many NFL and major college cities as possible because that gives you great insight as well.

Boomer
03-20-2006, 07:51 PM
CK, what's your take on Darcy Johnson? Think he will make a team?

This is Willie Offord's kid brother isn't it.

He's a big kid, with good hands, but you'd like to see him doing more with it after the catch. I remember seeing him make a great one hand stab against I think Wisconsin a couple of seasons ago. But he never really trained on. I'd imagine he's a FA type. He wasn't invited to the Combine, although his Pro Day numbers were reasonably solid: 6-5, 252 pounds, ran a 4.77 forty, had a 33.5 inch vertical and 25 on the bench. Like I say, FA type, who could stick as a 3rd TE on some squads.

Boomer
03-20-2006, 07:53 PM
where do you rank leonard pope among this year's TE class?

P.S. Darcy Johnson is nowhere near an NFL caliber player

I'd say #2 TE that's going I would think, maybe to the Bears in round 1.

themole
03-20-2006, 09:03 PM
This is Willie Offord's kid brother isn't it.

He's a big kid, with good hands, but you'd like to see him doing more with it after the catch. I remember seeing him make a great one hand stab against I think Wisconsin a couple of seasons ago. But he never really trained on. I'd imagine he's a FA type. He wasn't invited to the Combine, although his Pro Day numbers were reasonably solid: 6-5, 252 pounds, ran a 4.77 forty, had a 33.5 inch vertical and 25 on the bench. Like I say, FA type, who could stick as a 3rd TE on some squads.

That's correct Boomer. Willie is his brother, he bought Darcy a new car last year at the same time my son was shopping and told him he had high hopes for Darcy this year. They are good kids and I would like to see them succeed.

Boomer
03-20-2006, 09:06 PM
That's correct Boomer. Willie is his brother, he bought Darcy a new car last year at the same time my son was shopping and told him he had high hopes for Darcy this year. They are good kids and I would like to see them succeed.

You always want to see the good ones do well.

SWS84
03-20-2006, 09:10 PM
Excuse me if this has been asked, but what will the payment options be? The only credit card I have is a debit card and that is tied to my checking account. I am leary of using pay-pal because, if something happens, my account would be cleared out and I will be sleeping on the couch for months. I would be interested in either the newsletter or the Q&A sessions (but the posts can get rather long and hard to digest if there is a lot of repetative stuff). I am also interested in the VIP membership if I can find an alternative to pay-pal.

Steve

NY Finatic
03-20-2006, 09:33 PM
Right. I didn't read the whole thread either, but I'd be interested in subscribing to Miami Dolphins based draft analysis. Maybe you guys should sticky the "how to subscribe" part somewhere where we can get easy access to it?

Best of luck.

big0mar
03-20-2006, 10:11 PM
have you guys seen anything as amazing as Vernon Davis at the combine? How high do you think he'll go? Im thinking if hes available Arizona will pick him up. What an offense that will be.

ckparrothead
03-20-2006, 11:48 PM
Right. I didn't read the whole thread either, but I'd be interested in subscribing to Miami Dolphins based draft analysis. Maybe you guys should sticky the "how to subscribe" part somewhere where we can get easy access to it?

Best of luck.

The short story is we're considering this for next year, the 2007 Draft. There's nothing to sign up for yet...however, we will be keeping tabs of the names in this thread that have expressed interest...for later when we do roll this out.

ckparrothead
03-21-2006, 12:12 AM
Excuse me if this has been asked, but what will the payment options be? The only credit card I have is a debit card and that is tied to my checking account. I am leary of using pay-pal because, if something happens, my account would be cleared out and I will be sleeping on the couch for months. I would be interested in either the newsletter or the Q&A sessions (but the posts can get rather long and hard to digest if there is a lot of repetative stuff). I am also interested in the VIP membership if I can find an alternative to pay-pal.

Steve

As far as I know, PayPal is actually quite safe. You deposit a set amount of money into your PayPal account and then PayPal can't really touch any more money out of your account unless you actually OWE paypal money (which isn't likely).

Basically we're talking about a well-respected business that is on everyone's radar screen. They can't get away with ripping you off for hundreds of dollars anymore than your local pizza joint can. It's all very trackable.

You know how I know they can't touch the funds in your debit account even if someone claims you owe them money? Because I bought something on ebay once, paid the money, and never received it. I filed a claim against them, and PayPal promised that if sufficient funds were in the user's PayPal account, they would return them to me...but if not, I was SOL. Well, the funds weren't there.

But don't mistake my bad experience for something you could have. That was 100% ebay related and ebay does carry with it some risks. It's very simple really, you deposit $20 into your PayPal account, then you have that $20 transferred over to out PayPal account. After that's done, there really isn't any way for anyone to get hold of your debit card account money. Like I said, it's like being worried that swiping your debit card at Wal-Mart means that the Walton family can steal your fortune.

Dmancari23
03-21-2006, 12:51 AM
No offense, and I'm new here so that may play into it, but regardless of the local aspect of reporting on these things, anyone that has some football knowledge can sit here and make a GUESS on who the Phins will pick. Out of all 3 of you guys, what you've said covers just about everybody in the first round, so it's not all that scientific. I think it's great that you put the effort into it, but at the end of the day, it's a crapshoot. I'll respectfully pass on anything I have to pay money for as far as the draft is concerned. I will sit there in April and watch it straight from the opening bell, to the last pick and be happy.

On another note, being new here, I just think this site is great and like all of the FREE options we have to explore. Keep up the good work, and thanks for the FREE Finheaven.

ckparrothead
03-21-2006, 02:16 AM
No offense, and I'm new here so that may play into it, but regardless of the local aspect of reporting on these things, anyone that has some football knowledge can sit here and make a GUESS on who the Phins will pick. Out of all 3 of you guys, what you've said covers just about everybody in the first round, so it's not all that scientific. I think it's great that you put the effort into it, but at the end of the day, it's a crapshoot. I'll respectfully pass on anything I have to pay money for as far as the draft is concerned. I will sit there in April and watch it straight from the opening bell, to the last pick and be happy.

On another note, being new here, I just think this site is great and like all of the FREE options we have to explore. Keep up the good work, and thanks for the FREE Finheaven.

No offense taken, but I hope you do not take offense if I say that your inexperience is showing. The draft seems like a crap shoot to people who are ignorant of its inner workings...sort of like how the earth was flat because nobody saw it curve and how nobody could possibly predict the weather.

We know what we're talking about because we have experience following the draft and we are intelligent enough to analyze the inner workings of it. Just because it did not rain even though the weather man predicted a 70% chance of it, doesn't mean meteorology is just a crap shoot.

If you would rather sit home and let the draft come to you, that is your choice. Other people may choose a different path.

Boomer
03-21-2006, 07:24 AM
have you guys seen anything as amazing as Vernon Davis at the combine? How high do you think he'll go? Im thinking if hes available Arizona will pick him up. What an offense that will be.

He could go the Raiders at 7 or even the 49ers at 6 if the board falls differently. Arizona would be a good place for him as well.

BlueFin
03-21-2006, 08:33 AM
No offense, and I'm new here so that may play into it, but regardless of the local aspect of reporting on these things, anyone that has some football knowledge can sit here and make a GUESS on who the Phins will pick. Out of all 3 of you guys, what you've said covers just about everybody in the first round, so it's not all that scientific. I think it's great that you put the effort into it, but at the end of the day, it's a crapshoot. I'll respectfully pass on anything I have to pay money for as far as the draft is concerned. I will sit there in April and watch it straight from the opening bell, to the last pick and be happy.

On another note, being new here, I just think this site is great and like all of the FREE options we have to explore. Keep up the good work, and thanks for the FREE Finheaven.

Not to mention the limitless amount of free draft information available throughout the world wide web that is more than adequate to educate the average fan, I'll stick with that and my own experience watching the draft for over 35 years.

But more power to you guys if you can convince people to pay you for it.

hooserdaddy
03-21-2006, 09:10 AM
No offense, and I'm new here so that may play into it, but regardless of the local aspect of reporting on these things, anyone that has some football knowledge can sit here and make a GUESS on who the Phins will pick. Out of all 3 of you guys, what you've said covers just about everybody in the first round, so it's not all that scientific. I think it's great that you put the effort into it, but at the end of the day, it's a crapshoot. I'll respectfully pass on anything I have to pay money for as far as the draft is concerned. I will sit there in April and watch it straight from the opening bell, to the last pick and be happy.

On another note, being new here, I just think this site is great and like all of the FREE options we have to explore. Keep up the good work, and thanks for the FREE Finheaven.

Welcome Aboard. I was new on this about year ago, and didn't know who Boomer was at the time. On draft day I learned very quickly!! I watched him nail almost every day 1 pick before the teams made there selections. That is not something the casual viewer can do in my opinion. I would be willing to pay $5 on Draft weekend to read his and the other draft experts views, opinions and preditions.

Take care and welcome.

NY Finatic
03-21-2006, 10:05 AM
The short story is we're considering this for next year, the 2007 Draft. There's nothing to sign up for yet...however, we will be keeping tabs of the names in this thread that have expressed interest...for later when we do roll this out.

Thanks for the quick reply. By the way, CK, Hoya Saxa! Enjoy this Sweet 16 run before the Dolphins take over the national sports stage! :dolphins:

ckparrothead
03-21-2006, 10:43 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. By the way, CK, Hoya Saxa! Enjoy this Sweet 16 run before the Dolphins take over the national sports stage! :dolphins:

I'm enjoying it my friend...I am definitely enjoying it. I expect this kind of performance out of Jeff Green, though I'm a little disappointed in Brandon Bowman, but who knew that Roy Hibbert would be this good? He IS a full 7'2" but even so.

Dmancari23
03-21-2006, 07:05 PM
I think it's great like someone else said if you can convince some people to pay for amateur online content that you could probably find in plenty of places for free. That would be a tremendous sales job, however with 64% of the voting not in favor of paying for it, I guess maybe my "inexperienced" self is onto something? HAHA... It's all in good fun. Like I said before, it's great for the people who will pay for anything NFL Draft, but I can sit on my couch and watch on. I think when it's all said and done, the real percentage you can expect to be interested in your product, and then actually pay you for it is below 20%, but who knows, with as many people graze through here, maybe 14 or 15% of the people paying for those services will make you a little coin.

I know the last thing I want to be doing is sitting on a computer on draft weekend and chatting, but that's just me. I can't get enough of the coverage on TV, and I think it would be silly to sit there with a laptop and go back and forth. I prefer to watch those so-called experts and all of their commentary.

Boomer
03-21-2006, 07:16 PM
I think it's great like someone else said if you can convince some people to pay for amateur online content that you could probably find in plenty of places for free. That would be a tremendous sales job, however with 64% of the voting not in favor of paying for it, I guess maybe my "inexperienced" self is onto something? HAHA... It's all in good fun. Like I said before, it's great for the people who will pay for anything NFL Draft, but I can sit on my couch and watch on. I think when it's all said and done, the real percentage you can expect to be interested in your product, and then actually pay you for it is below 20%, but who knows, with as many people graze through here, maybe 14 or 15% of the people paying for those services will make you a little coin.

Great job for reading the thread, knowing what we do and then totally ignoring it.

Dmancari23
03-21-2006, 09:35 PM
Great job for reading the thread, knowing what we do and then totally ignoring it.

Not sure I understand that? I was pretty much joking in my last response when I called you guys amateurs (see where I said: it's all in good fun). It's not my cup of tea to pay for services I can find elsewhere for free at no more than a click of a button. I may be new to the site, but not new to other Phins sites. With that being said, there would be 36% of the people who voted who MAY consider buying something, but I bet when it comes down to shelling out actual money to someone who isn't even really in the business, I am willing to bet my bottom dollar you don't get half of that 36% to pay. I honestly hope it works out in whichever manner you guys want it to. I am just glad I found this site for my fix on Phins news and the forums.

hooserdaddy
03-21-2006, 09:46 PM
Not sure I understand that? I was pretty much joking in my last response when I called you guys amateurs (see where I said: it's all in good fun). It's not my cup of tea to pay for services I can find elsewhere for free at no more than a click of a button. I may be new to the site, but not new to other Phins sites. With that being said, there would be 36% of the people who voted who MAY consider buying something, but I bet when it comes down to shelling out actual money to someone who isn't even really in the business, I am willing to bet my bottom dollar you don't get half of that 36% to pay. I honestly hope it works out in whichever manner you guys want it to. I am just glad I found this site for my fix on Phins news and the forums.

I'm one of the 36% that would pay, because I am a believe in what Boomer knows about the draft. I witnessed it last year during the first day of the draft. Jump on here day 1 of draft and watch how accurate he is with his selections before the teams make there selections. You might be a believer too!!

ckparrothead
03-21-2006, 10:04 PM
Not sure I understand that? I was pretty much joking in my last response when I called you guys amateurs (see where I said: it's all in good fun). It's not my cup of tea to pay for services I can find elsewhere for free at no more than a click of a button. I may be new to the site, but not new to other Phins sites. With that being said, there would be 36% of the people who voted who MAY consider buying something, but I bet when it comes down to shelling out actual money to someone who isn't even really in the business, I am willing to bet my bottom dollar you don't get half of that 36% to pay. I honestly hope it works out in whichever manner you guys want it to. I am just glad I found this site for my fix on Phins news and the forums.

If we're doing business, we're in the business. It's as simple as that. All of us have written for internet publications before. Boomer and I have both written professionally and collected salaries for doing it.

If it isn't your cup of tea, then it isn't your cup of tea, but I would appreciate it if you just voted and kept your trap shut instead of badmouthing the services we intend to offer...unless you have constructive criticism, but it did not seem as if you had anything constructive to say just that we're just amateurs and the draft is just a crap shoot so nobody should pay money for information about it.

And for your information, 36% of people voting, that are willing to pay an average of $25 per person for draft coverage...they seem to disagree with you. And I'll have you know that percentage is DRAMATICALLY high for one pool of people, considering the amount of business that independent draft publications generally do (which is to say, not much). I consider it quite flattering that 36% of the people voting consistently show they are willing to pay Boomer, KB21, and myself an average of $25 a piece for draft information.

hooserdaddy
03-21-2006, 10:19 PM
If we're doing business, we're in the business. It's as simple as that. All of us have written for internet publications before. Boomer and I have both written professionally and collected salaries for doing it.

If it isn't your cup of tea, then it isn't your cup of tea, but I would appreciate it if you just voted and kept your trap shut instead of badmouthing the services we intend to offer...unless you have constructive criticism, but it did not seem as if you had anything constructive to say just that we're just amateurs and the draft is just a crap shoot so nobody should pay money for information about it.

And for your information, 36% of people voting, that are willing to pay an average of $25 per person for draft coverage...they seem to disagree with you. And I'll have you know that percentage is DRAMATICALLY high for one pool of people, considering the amount of business that independent draft publications generally do (which is to say, not much). I consider it quite flattering that 36% of the people voting consistently show they are willing to pay Boomer, KB21, and myself an average of $25 a piece for draft information.

CK, Boomer

I wish you could go back to last years draft thread, because I remember Boomer naming a very high percentage of the draft picks in day one before they were announced. That doesn't sound like a crap shoot to me, and that's why I would be one at the very least to pay for the Draft weekend chat.

**Are you guys going to only be in the VIP forum during this years draft, or will you be out in the free forum**

Dmancari23
03-21-2006, 10:25 PM
If it isn't your cup of tea, then it isn't your cup of tea, but I would appreciate it if you just voted and kept your trap shut instead of badmouthing the services we intend to offer...unless you have constructive criticism, but it did not seem as if you had anything constructive to say just that we're just amateurs and the draft is just a crap shoot so nobody should pay money for information about it.

It is a crap shoot no matter who is doing it. All you guys can do is play a guessing game like everyone else. And let's just get one thing straight, I never badmouthed the idea at all. I said if you guys can convince people to pay for it, then congrats. You need to probably read the post a little more before saying I am badmouthing. Once again, good luck with whatever you guys hope to accomplish with these draft products, and relax, there's no reason to be up in arms, just go back and read my posts before commenting again, please. Thanks.

hooserdaddy
03-21-2006, 10:28 PM
It is a crap shoot no matter who is doing it. All you guys can do is play a guessing game like everyone else. And let's just get one thing straight, I never badmouthed the idea at all. I said if you guys can convince people to pay for it, then congrats. You need to probably read the post a little more before saying I am badmouthing. Once again, good luck with whatever you guys hope to accomplish with these draft products, and relax, there's no reason to be up in arms, just go back and read my posts before commenting again, please. Thanks.

why don't you do a search for last years draft thread and see how accurate Boomer was on his picks. He nailed them before the teams were selecting. Go check all of the Mock Drafts and none of them were even close to how accurate Boomer was last year. That includes the national guys from ESPN and NFL network, etc....

dlockz
03-22-2006, 07:15 AM
I give props to anyone trying to do business out of thier research and I think its a good idea to a degree but would definately not pay 20 or 30 dollars for any draft guide no matter how thorough it was. Myself voted with the 60 % for two reasons. Although I think you guys are fairly knowledgeable, I at this time don't think that you bring enough to the table for me to pay for your content(although I may be quite wrong). The other being that I prefer to be able to access a site with draft info because I do alot of my own research. I think you would be fairly successful because many on this site are quite enamoured with your info, I just don't happen to be one of them although I respect and appreciate your opinions. On that note I do think if people ask for market research they should know that it will not be all positive and you are asking for a special niche of people that will want your info. From there if you do a great job, word of mouth will increase your subscribers. I do admit that Boomer's mock last year was very good but I don't value who is picking who as much as good evaluations of players.

BlueFin
03-22-2006, 08:58 AM
I give props to anyone trying to do business out of thier research and I think its a good idea to a degree but would definately not pay 20 or 30 dollars for any draft guide no matter how thorough it was. Myself voted with the 60 % for two reasons. Although I think you guys are fairly knowledgeable, I at this time don't think that you bring enough to the table for me to pay for your content(although I may be quite wrong). The other being that I prefer to be able to access a site with draft info because I do alot of my own research. I think you would be fairly successful because many on this site are quite enamoured with your info, I just don't happen to be one of them although I respect and appreciate your opinions. On that note I do think if people ask for market research they should know that it will not be all positive and you are asking for a special niche of people that will want your info. From there if you do a great job, word of mouth will increase your subscribers. I do admit that Boomer's mock last year was very good but I don't value who is picking who as much as good evaluations of players.

You make some great points, in fact for the same comparitive dollars this market research indicates seeking for its different products, one could become a subscriber to OURLADS GUIDE TO THE NFL DRAFT, they actually send scouts out to view these players in person just as NFL teams do, as well as watching countless hours of film, in fact, NFL organizations subscribe to Ourlads as an additional scouting source to complement their own scouting department.(As well as using Blesto or National of course)

dolphan117
03-22-2006, 12:38 PM
Shouldn't this be posted in the VIP as well? Some of them will never see this thread as long as its in the main. I would be interested in the draft day chat and maybe the newsletter but right now the money is just too tight to commit to anything.

Professor
03-22-2006, 03:44 PM
From what I've seen of CK/KB's posts there is absolutely no information given that has not or could not be found in abundance on other websites. Boomer has some good insights/connections to the Dolphins org. and/or Miami media. IMO none of their opinions, while worthy as coming from a self taught Dolphins fan, are worth monetary support as they are regurgitations of the labor and love of others with a slightly orange and teal tint.

ckparrothead
03-22-2006, 06:08 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people like to be wrong.

Mile High Fin
03-22-2006, 06:47 PM
You make some great points, in fact for the same comparitive dollars this market research indicates seeking for its different products, one could become a subscriber to OURLADS GUIDE TO THE NFL DRAFT, they actually send scouts out to view these players in person just as NFL teams do, as well as watching countless hours of film, in fact, NFL organizations subscribe to Ourlads as an additional scouting source to complement their own scouting department.(As well as using Blesto or National of course)


Maybe so, but I'd still consider paying for the newsletter/draft day chat, since (1) it's Dolphins/AFC East focused (where Ourlads is not), and (2) the draft day chat would allow personalized interactions/questions that Ourlads and others would not.....



Also, I might add that: I think it's no surprise that a majority of people won't purchase. But that doesn't mean it won't be a success.

Analogy: When a blockbuster movie can be a smash hit if it grosses $250M (which is only about 25M tickets, which is about 8% of the population).
In other words, if "only" 92% of the population declines to see your movie, you have a huge success.

CK/Boomer/KB will simply have to crunch the numbers to see if it's worthwhile.

ckparrothead
03-22-2006, 07:08 PM
Maybe so, but I'd still consider paying for the newsletter/draft day chat, since (1) it's Dolphins/AFC East focused (where Ourlads is not), and (2) the draft day chat would allow personalized interactions/questions that Ourlads and others would not.....



Also, I might add that: I think it's no surprise that a majority of people won't purchase. But that doesn't mean it won't be a success.

Analogy: When a blockbuster movie can be a smash hit if it grosses $250M (which is only about 25M tickets, which is about 8% of the population).
In other words, if "only" 92% of the population declines to see your movie, you have a huge success.

CK/Boomer/KB will simply have to crunch the numbers to see if it's worthwhile.

Great analogy and great points man. Couldn't have said it better myself...and I think I tried to say something along those lines but failed to do it as well as you did ;)

We're crunching away...heh.

Mile High Fin
03-22-2006, 07:19 PM
Great analogy and great points man. Couldn't have said it better myself...and I think I tried to say something along those lines but failed to do it as well as you did ;)

We're crunching away...heh.


Thanks,
Another common analogy I remembered later was this:

If a pro baseball hitter fails "only" 70% of the time during his career, he'll probably be in the Hall of Fame (since his career batting avg would be .300).


Good luck to you guys....
Succeed or not, at least you are taking action to make your dream a reality.

Dmancari23
03-22-2006, 08:42 PM
Well based off of this market research, those guys are set to get $2510 gross dollars from the people who voted. Now you have to minus material costs, shipping, man hours, and then divide that net amount by 3 and you what? A couple dollars per person? Sounds worth it to me. Like I said before, if it's your passion and that's what you want to do and it's not about the money, then have at it, but you've made mention that you can't do it for free and this and that, so you're obviously spending more time on it then what it may bring in monetarily. Again, those numbers above are skewed, because when it comes down to paying for an actual product that you don't know the type of quality you're getting, ALOT more than 65% won't pay for it until someone else has told them about the product. It's all about word of mouth. Like someone else said, you can sign up for professional publications where they are actually involved in the processes of evaluating players in person, etc. instead of searching online for the info, I would have to jump on an ourlads type deal if I had to choose between the two. There is nothing in those posts that wouldn't be found elsewhere on what we call the WORLD WIDE WEB. I gotta side with the professionals, but if you can make enough coin to make it work, GO FOR IT!!!! It's great to be able to do something like this if that's what you want to do, regardless of money. Just realize that not everyone will be in the same boat as you.

Mile High Fin
03-22-2006, 09:33 PM
Well based off of this market research, those guys are set to get $2510 gross dollars from the people who voted. Now you have to minus material costs, shipping, man hours, and then divide that net amount by 3 and you what? A couple dollars per person? Sounds worth it to me. Like I said before, if it's your passion and that's what you want to do and it's not about the money, then have at it, but you've made mention that you can't do it for free and this and that, so you're obviously spending more time on it then what it may bring in monetarily. Again, those numbers above are skewed, because when it comes down to paying for an actual product that you don't know the type of quality you're getting, ALOT more than 65% won't pay for it until someone else has told them about the product. It's all about word of mouth. Like someone else said, you can sign up for professional publications where they are actually involved in the processes of evaluating players in person, etc. instead of searching online for the info, I would have to jump on an ourlads type deal if I had to choose between the two. There is nothing in those posts that wouldn't be found elsewhere on what we call the WORLD WIDE WEB. I gotta side with the professionals, but if you can make enough coin to make it work, GO FOR IT!!!! It's great to be able to do something like this if that's what you want to do, regardless of money. Just realize that not everyone will be in the same boat as you.


Your numbers are off. :shakeno:
It's a statistical sample. The products won't be marketed to just the 370 members who voted. If that was the case, you're correct.

If statistically 30% of members are interested, then that's 30% out of potentially 10-20,000 Finheaven members.
The product would be marketed to ALL members, as well as other sources I'm sure...

30% of say 10,000 members is 3,000 buyers.
And let's say 2/3 of them (who voted "yes", but later declined) back out, that's still some 1,000 buyers...
And you have to start somewhere....
The following year, with good word-of-mouth, maybe that number doubles. And so on..... Rome was not built in a day... :shakeno:


Good luck guys......don't let the nay-sayers get you down.
I know you'll do your own objective analysis, and decide best answer.

dlockz
03-22-2006, 09:36 PM
Not to prop up the three of you guys, but Mel Kiper probably was ridiculed about his draft newsletter idea before he did it. Now he did have a very open market then but there is still plenty of market for sports info, In fact I have actually researched doing a draft and fantasy football combined newsletter with some people. If you do a good job and put out a good product the odds are you will do well in your venture. I have yet to be totally satisfied with any draft product or site I have used so there is room for quality products. On another note I have never used our lads so I will check into it.

ckparrothead
03-23-2006, 12:14 AM
Not to prop up the three of you guys, but Mel Kiper probably was ridiculed about his draft newsletter idea before he did it. Now he did have a very open market then but there is still plenty of market for sports info, In fact I have actually researched doing a draft and fantasy football combined newsletter with some people. If you do a good job and put out a good product the odds are you will do well in your venture. I have yet to be totally satisfied with any draft product or site I have used so there is room for quality products. On another note I have never used our lads so I will check into it.

The market is highly competitive it is true...but honestly the business models in the market are a bit monkey-ish...speaking as one who analyzes business models for a living in order to determine stock value.

The market seems ridiculously under-penetrated, especially considering the percentages that are evident in the voting on this thread.

finsnchips
03-25-2006, 06:38 PM
A colour guide would be amazing... any chance of shipping to the UK if it were to happen?

phinfan77
03-26-2006, 10:26 AM
hell, i'll pay $5 if you guys would answer the stupid questions i'm too afraid to put on the board.

Gonzo
03-26-2006, 03:13 PM
I don't want to pick the final one because I don't think you guys are nuts for wanting some form of compensation for the amount of time and effort you would put into something like this. Unfortunately, being a broke *** student such as myself (I live off of GI Bill alone), even $5 is a hard thing to pay. However, if I wasn't so broke, I would pony up that cash in an instant. Your (plural) draft coverage is awesome. Keep up the incredible work. You make the offseason so much more bearable.

SSMiami
03-26-2006, 03:45 PM
You can count me in on any of 1 to 5, the three headed monster of boomer, ck and KB21 would be value for money.

Boomer
03-26-2006, 04:27 PM
A colour guide would be amazing... any chance of shipping to the UK if it were to happen?

Dude, you know I live in England......you'll get yours. ;)

saves
03-26-2006, 04:33 PM
Your numbers are off. :shakeno:
It's a statistical sample. The products won't be marketed to just the 370 members who voted. If that was the case, you're correct.

If statistically 30% of members are interested, then that's 30% out of potentially 10-20,000 Finheaven members.
The product would be marketed to ALL members, as well as other sources I'm sure...

30% of say 10,000 members is 3,000 buyers.
And let's say 2/3 of them (who voted "yes", but later declined) back out, that's still some 1,000 buyers...
And you have to start somewhere....
The following year, with good word-of-mouth, maybe that number doubles. And so on..... Rome was not built in a day... :shakeno:


Good luck guys......don't let the nay-sayers get you down.
I know you'll do your own objective analysis, and decide best answer.

Just to throw it out there, I don't think the 30% can be considered valid under these circumstances. I bet more than a few who voted on the poll can be counted on to not actually participate in this. Just throwing our some thought, not trying to be negative.

Dbergan
03-26-2006, 04:55 PM
hell, i'll pay $5 if you guys would answer the stupid questions i'm too afraid to put on the board.


:sidelol: :sidelol: I'm with ya man....

ckparrothead
03-27-2006, 02:47 PM
I don't want to pick the final one because I don't think you guys are nuts for wanting some form of compensation for the amount of time and effort you would put into something like this. Unfortunately, being a broke *** student such as myself (I live off of GI Bill alone), even $5 is a hard thing to pay. However, if I wasn't so broke, I would pony up that cash in an instant. Your (plural) draft coverage is awesome. Keep up the incredible work. You make the offseason so much more bearable.

It's tongue-in-cheek man. No worries. We don't really think 66% of you think we're nuts, just that 66% of you aren't willing to buy stuff from us for whatever reason (with not enough $$$ being by far the most popular). Not a problem.

jbond
03-29-2006, 01:46 AM
Ck, KB & Boomer....I have been on this site for about 3 years now and have thoroughly enjoyed the many posts and information found here. In the past three years I have seen this site grow tremendously and although I have only met one poster from here by chance at a game, I kind of feel like most of you are a part of my family, in a Dolphins sort of way. To a degree this feeling has started to fade somewhat the past year (or more) as the site has grown pretty large and there seems to be a million posts and reposts and more of the usual repetitive non-educated arguing over and over. I still remember all the "old regulars" and posters such as you three and many others (finfans as well as from other teams....I remember arguing with circling_wagons (bills) years ago, lol). Where am I going with this? I work and have a family as many on here do and I still read here daily and post a bit here. I follow the drafts, read all the sites etc. but if you all could do a more in-depth analysis that I could read without having to hunt through a 100 posts to find 5 that either aren't repetitive or that actually contain pertinent information....I'm all for it. Maybe it's about time I chip in for the VIP sections....or is it just more of the same but in a different area?

edit: on another note....as my profile indicates I do network security for a living so if you all ever need any help with server / networking / security stuff let me know (I'll leave the programming to the other folks, lol).

DolphanD
03-29-2006, 02:24 AM
I think you guys could put out a better version of TSN's Draft Guide which is usually not very accurate as they probably write the profiles after the combine which makes them slightly out of date. So I would be interested in the $20 color booklet with the possibility of subscribing to the Phin Fan newsletter.

I know a few days ago Boomer really set the record straight on why Will Poole was available in the 4th round and I was really impressed to say the least. I doubt some ESPN analyst could have broke it down so quickly and it was in a very readable manner. No B.S. as the thread says.

Dbergan
03-29-2006, 02:54 AM
Ck, KB & Boomer....I have been on this site for about 3 years now and have thoroughly enjoyed the many posts and information found here. In the past three years I have seen this site grow tremendously and although I have only met one poster from here by chance at a game, I kind of feel like most of you are a part of my family, in a Dolphins sort of way. To a degree this feeling has started to fade somewhat the past year (or more) as the site has grown pretty large and there seems to be a million posts and reposts and more of the usual repetitive non-educated arguing over and over. I still remember all the "old regulars" and posters such as you three and many others (finfans as well as from other teams....I remember arguing with circling_wagons (bills) years ago, lol). Where am I going with this? I work and have a family as many on here do and I still read here daily and post a bit here. I follow the drafts, read all the sites etc. but if you all could do a more in-depth analysis that I could read without having to hunt through a 100 posts to find 5 that either aren't repetitive or that actually contain pertinent information....I'm all for it. Maybe it's about time I chip in for the VIP sections....or is it just more of the same but in a different area?

edit: on another note....as my profile indicates I do network security for a living so if you all ever need any help with server / networking / security stuff let me know (I'll leave the programming to the other folks, lol).

If you go VIP.....it's like 2 years ago when almost every post was meaningful. No brainer man....you MUST do it. The zoo is for fun...but the VIP is where the real discussions occur.:evil:

dlockz
03-29-2006, 05:23 AM
If you go VIP.....it's like 2 years ago when almost every post was meaningful. No brainer man....you MUST do it. The zoo is for fun...but the VIP is where the real discussions occur.:evil:

No offense and I would be very willing to donate for server issues and maintaining site but just because someone donates does not make his post more meaningful. I am sure that there are many posts as I see on the pauper's board by many VIP people that are no more meaningful than us pauper's.

Dbergan
03-29-2006, 06:02 AM
No offense and I would be very willing to donate for server issues and maintaining site but just because someone donates does not make his post more meaningful. I am sure that there are many posts as I see on the pauper's board by many VIP people that are no more meaningful than us pauper's.


Point taken.:D

I guess what I was trying to convey is that in the VIP section you don't have to scroll through tons of comments to find one or two posts which perk your attention. I would say it's well worth the cost if you want great info...and you want it as quick as possible. But to be honest, this site has grown so much...it's just all good!!!

ckparrothead
03-29-2006, 10:29 AM
The VIP forum has better quality because of the fewer number of posters and thread-creators, as well as the money being paid to enter. You would be surprised how much the money issue will "weed out" frivolous posters who just come onto the site once in a blue moon to post a thread and ask "Who will the Dolphins take in the 1st round?" even though the topic has been discussed to death.

Money is an effective screening tool...it is the basis behind our $5 admission draft day chat...which apparently 42 people so far seem interested in.

Da 'Fins
03-29-2006, 05:42 PM
No offense, but 6 is my choice. CK has some very good posts and some very mediocre ones. But, verbosity about sports in general, or the Dolphins in particular, and a B.A. (leaving aside the self promotion, for the moment) are not worth the money.

DeDolfan
03-29-2006, 09:46 PM
There is indeed. But I guarantee you won't find full ACCURATE measurements, analysis, or ability to predict which players the Miami Dolphins are looking at in the draft.

Are you saying that some of you guys work in the Dolphins front office??

ckparrothead
03-30-2006, 05:07 PM
Are you saying that some of you guys work in the Dolphins front office??

No merely that most of the "free" analysis you'll find out there tend to post inaccurate numbers, and most of the media out there that try and predict what Saban will do next are not nearly as proven at doing so as myself, Boomer, and KB21.

Local media are basically journalists first and then football analysts. Most of them don't really even know their X's and O's when it comes to football. Saban's iron curtain on information leakage has taken away the media's ability to continue being gossip hounds first, and football analysts second. God forbid they actually have to use some football sense to figure out what Saban is likely to do, or to analyze what Saban just did, instead of having inside scoop handed to you by some shady employee who shouldn't really be saying anything.

That's where we come in. We're football people first, journalists second. Do the journalists still have a network of sources at their disposal that we can't possibly claim? Sure. But that network has been severely diminished in efficacy since Saban joined...which is why they all hate him. He's sort of leveled the playing field to where guys like us can and do successfully "scoop" the media types just by using our noggins to figure out Saban's next move.

dlockz
03-30-2006, 11:20 PM
No merely that most of the "free" analysis you'll find out there tend to post inaccurate numbers, and most of the media out there that try and predict what Saban will do next are not nearly as proven at doing so as myself, Boomer, and KB21.

Local media are basically journalists first and then football analysts. Most of them don't really even know their X's and O's when it comes to football. Saban's iron curtain on information leakage has taken away the media's ability to continue being gossip hounds first, and football analysts second. God forbid they actually have to use some football sense to figure out what Saban is likely to do, or to analyze what Saban just did, instead of having inside scoop handed to you by some shady employee who shouldn't really be saying anything.

That's where we come in. We're football people first, journalists second. Do the journalists still have a network of sources at their disposal that we can't possibly claim? Sure. But that network has been severely diminished in efficacy since Saban joined...which is why they all hate him. He's sort of leveled the playing field to where guys like us can and do successfully "scoop" the media types just by using our noggins to figure out Saban's next move.


Actually you would be football people second since you and probably the others have real jobs. I don't see how them being journalists would have any bad effect on them being football analysts. It all depends on thier chosen area of expertise. The journalist aspect basically just accents them covering football. It basically comes down to what thier knowledge and sources are.

DeDolfan
03-31-2006, 08:12 AM
No merely that most of the "free" analysis you'll find out there tend to post inaccurate numbers, and most of the media out there that try and predict what Saban will do next are not nearly as proven at doing so as myself, Boomer, and KB21.

Local media are basically journalists first and then football analysts. Most of them don't really even know their X's and O's when it comes to football. Saban's iron curtain on information leakage has taken away the media's ability to continue being gossip hounds first, and football analysts second. God forbid they actually have to use some football sense to figure out what Saban is likely to do, or to analyze what Saban just did, instead of having inside scoop handed to you by some shady employee who shouldn't really be saying anything.

That's where we come in. We're football people first, journalists second. Do the journalists still have a network of sources at their disposal that we can't possibly claim? Sure. But that network has been severely diminished in efficacy since Saban joined...which is why they all hate him. He's sort of leveled the playing field to where guys like us can and do successfully "scoop" the media types just by using our noggins to figure out Saban's next move.


I understand all that and that's why I don't put alot of faith into what the media says in these things. I guess what I am questioning is that altho we are football people first, the only ones that know really how Saban and meuller think are the ones that are close to them. otherwise, we can only speculate on their next move by the "pattern" they develope, of sorts anyway.IMO, there are way too may variables in the draft, ie finishing FA 1st, depends on how other teams draft before you, etc., etc. and to claim real accuracy at least suggests to me of some kind if insider info. I am very close to someone who used to work in the Fins F.O. and was often told alot of different things, for example that the Fins had Culpepper as the highest rated QB on their chart in 99, but I would never repeat anything i was told since it would jeopordize his job. Granted, you guys can prediction Saban's next moves with some uncanny accuracy byt studying his previous moves. but one thing i really hate is someone says, "I just heard on ESPN, etc" and 99% of the time you can look around and find another source contrary to what ESPN justa said!! ;)

BlueFin
03-31-2006, 08:24 AM
I understand all that and that's why I don't put alot of faith into what the media says in these things. I guess what I am questioning is that altho we are football people first, the only ones that know really how Saban and meuller think are the ones that are close to them. otherwise, we can only speculate on their next move by the "pattern" they develope, of sorts anyway. I am very close to someone who used to work in the Fins F.O. and was often told alot of different things, for example that the Fins had Culpepper as the highest rated QB on their chart in 99, but I would never repeat anything i was told since it would jeopordize his job. Granted, you guys can prediction Saban's next moves with some uncanny accuracy byt studying his previous moves. but one thing i really hate is someone says, "I just heard on ESPN, etc" and 99% of the time you can look around and find another source contrary to what ESPN justa said!! ;)

We can all speculate, and thats about all it will ever be. If you want to call it educated speculation....fine. I personally don't need others to speculate for me, I've been right as much as anybody else on average, but I'm sure there are others who might need that.

DeDolfan
03-31-2006, 09:31 AM
We can all speculate, and thats about all it will ever be. If you want to call it educated speculation....fine. I personally don't need others to speculate for me, I've been right as much as anybody else on average, but I'm sure there are others who might need that.

I'm not quite sure what your point is.

BlueFin
03-31-2006, 09:50 AM
I'm not quite sure what your point is.

I was adding to your point about how unless your in the inner circle of Sabans braintrust, it is all speculation, I didn't think my post was that veiled?

Crowder52
03-31-2006, 02:53 PM
We can all speculate, and thats about all it will ever be. If you want to call it educated speculation....fine. I personally don't need others to speculate for me, I've been right as much as anybody else on average, but I'm sure there are others who might need that.

I completely agree with you BlueFin. Draft analysis is at best a guessing game. Anyone who follows the Dolphins knows the needs of the team and we can all "predict" who the Dolphins will draft. But so much of the pre-draft talk is smoke screens; no one outside of Saban's inner circle really knows whom the team's specific targets are.

ckparrothead
03-31-2006, 04:36 PM
I completely agree with you BlueFin. Draft analysis is at best a guessing game. Anyone who follows the Dolphins knows the needs of the team and we can all "predict" who the Dolphins will draft. But so much of the pre-draft talk is smoke screens; no one outside of Saban's inner circle really knows whom the team's specific targets are.

Well then I invite you to put your money where you mouth is and create more informative, detailed, and accurate draft predictions.

Personally I find the idea absurd that the draft is a guessing game. It reminds me of the people that say the stock market is a guessing game just because they're too lazy to do informative research.

I also find it absurd that some folks think that fans that do not spend time researching this topic can be consistently as accurate as those that do. That in turn reminds me of the year 2000 day traders that went ahead piling up uninformed day trades to stockpile money because by golly ya can't go wrong with tech! Until 2001...when they lost their life savings.

What makes a "professional" anyway? Here I thought what makes a professional is a guy who spends a lot of time plying away at his trade and makes money off it. Guess what, all three of us spend more manhours in a single day plying away at this trade than most "informed" fans do in a week or more.

If you don't think draft analysis is worth your money that is a personal choice. But don't try and pretend that 67% of the people voting are not willing to give up their money because they can predict and analyze the draft just as easily as we can. Is that arrogance? To me, no. No more arrogant than a fireman scoffing at the idea that a group of "informed" citizens could put out fires just as well as they could. No more arrogant than a trained soldier listening to someone say that a group of paintball players could whip their butt on the battlefield.

Someone, somwhere, is laughing. Wait, I think that might be me...

saves
03-31-2006, 05:15 PM
Someone, somwhere, is laughing. Wait, I think that might be me...

Why exactly are you laughing? Has any money been made?

DeDolfan
03-31-2006, 07:37 PM
I was adding to your point about how unless your in the inner circle of Sabans braintrust, it is all speculation, I didn't think my post was that veiled?

Just making certain of what you were saying.

DeDolfan
03-31-2006, 07:57 PM
Well then I invite you to put your money where you mouth is and create more informative, detailed, and accurate draft predictions.

Personally I find the idea absurd that the draft is a guessing game. It reminds me of the people that say the stock market is a guessing game just because they're too lazy to do informative research.

I also find it absurd that some folks think that fans that do not spend time researching this topic can be consistently as accurate as those that do. That in turn reminds me of the year 2000 day traders that went ahead piling up uninformed day trades to stockpile money because by golly ya can't go wrong with tech! Until 2001...when they lost their life savings.

What makes a "professional" anyway? Here I thought what makes a professional is a guy who spends a lot of time plying away at his trade and makes money off it. Guess what, all three of us spend more manhours in a single day plying away at this trade than most "informed" fans do in a week or more.

If you don't think draft analysis is worth your money that is a personal choice. But don't try and pretend that 67% of the people voting are not willing to give up their money because they can predict and analyze the draft just as easily as we can. Is that arrogance? To me, no. No more arrogant than a fireman scoffing at the idea that a group of "informed" citizens could put out fires just as well as they could. No more arrogant than a trained soldier listening to someone say that a group of paintball players could whip their butt on the battlefield.

Someone, somwhere, is laughing. Wait, I think that might be me...

are we to understand that you guys are professional draft analysts then?

Crowder52
03-31-2006, 09:38 PM
Well then I invite you to put your money where you mouth is and create more informative, detailed, and accurate draft predictions.

Personally I find the idea absurd that the draft is a guessing game. It reminds me of the people that say the stock market is a guessing game just because they're too lazy to do informative research.

I also find it absurd that some folks think that fans that do not spend time researching this topic can be consistently as accurate as those that do. That in turn reminds me of the year 2000 day traders that went ahead piling up uninformed day trades to stockpile money because by golly ya can't go wrong with tech! Until 2001...when they lost their life savings.

What makes a "professional" anyway? Here I thought what makes a professional is a guy who spends a lot of time plying away at his trade and makes money off it. Guess what, all three of us spend more manhours in a single day plying away at this trade than most "informed" fans do in a week or more.

If you don't think draft analysis is worth your money that is a personal choice. But don't try and pretend that 67% of the people voting are not willing to give up their money because they can predict and analyze the draft just as easily as we can. Is that arrogance? To me, no. No more arrogant than a fireman scoffing at the idea that a group of "informed" citizens could put out fires just as well as they could. No more arrogant than a trained soldier listening to someone say that a group of paintball players could whip their butt on the battlefield.

Someone, somwhere, is laughing. Wait, I think that might be me...

I'm not sure what you mean by "putting my money where my mouth is" as I never said I was going to provide any type of service to anyone and didn't make any wagers. The fact is, Mel Kiper does this stuff 365 days a year, knows people in every organization, and he is still wrong with his "Big Board." It is little more than a guessing game after you assess every teams needs. We know the Phins need linebacker, secondary, and O-line help. You're going to tell me that from "analyzing" for hours every day that you know which player we are going to pick? Please.

I really feel bad for you guys if you actually spend as much time "plying away" as you say you do. Watching tape and analyzing still tells you nothing about what the people upstairs are thinking, and that's all that matters. There are people who spend significantly more time doing it than you do and they still get the picks wrong. I did an ESPN draft challenge a few years back...Had Rivers going at 4 when his stock was dropping pre-draft, I hit the first 7 picks in order. I finished in the top 50 out of tens of thousand of predictions. I did better than Kiper. And I don't watch any tape or analyze anything, I'm just a football fan! I could hit this draft the same way or I could get 7 of the first 10 wrong.

Unless you have some inside information, your guesses are just guesses. But maybe your experience in comparing college football players to the bonds market has given you some sort of edge.:shakeno:

ckparrothead
03-31-2006, 09:38 PM
are we to understand that you guys are professional draft analysts then?

Hmm, well it depends. Personally, I do not have any bones with calling us professional draft analysts because that is indeed what we are. We're engaging in a money-making enterprise, we spend easily as much time developing models and databases, evaluating film, etc. as guys whose names you probably know. Boomer has been asked by Frank Coyle to work with him in the past, but Boomer had to turn him down because he had a baby on the way. Both Boomer and KB21 have done official draft analysis for FinHeaven, a money-making enterprise.

Personally this isn't about arrogance and this isn't about being smart. A roofer knows how to re-shingle a roof because he works on roofs often enough to know. An "informed" homeowner may think he can do it himself and save money, but his lack of experience could lead to problems.

Now OBVIOUSLY a roof that needs re-shingling is like, a need, where this is just a luxury. That's why I just say if you happen to enjoy this sort of thing, then go for it. If not, don't worry about it. We're not trying to peddle this off to people that don't want it. I just take issue when people pipe up and try and say that the reason nobody should buy us is because any lay fan that keeps track of things a little bit can do the same thing we do.

Muck
03-31-2006, 10:42 PM
Hope no one minds, but I'm going to move this to the Draft forum.

We need some "sticky space". :)

dlockz
03-31-2006, 10:57 PM
Still say go out and do your things and lets see the results. I think its great that you guys are planning something like this. I don't like how this thread got into more like having to defend ones knowledge or comparing the three of you to any of the gurus that do this for a living. I do think that I would avoid your business analysis due to you spending too much time on the football thing lol.

DeDolfan
04-01-2006, 09:17 AM
Hmm, well it depends. Personally, I do not have any bones with calling us professional draft analysts because that is indeed what we are. We're engaging in a money-making enterprise, we spend easily as much time developing models and databases, evaluating film, etc. as guys whose names you probably know. Boomer has been asked by Frank Coyle to work with him in the past, but Boomer had to turn him down because he had a baby on the way. Both Boomer and KB21 have done official draft analysis for FinHeaven, a money-making enterprise.

Personally this isn't about arrogance and this isn't about being smart. A roofer knows how to re-shingle a roof because he works on roofs often enough to know. An "informed" homeowner may think he can do it himself and save money, but his lack of experience could lead to problems.

Now OBVIOUSLY a roof that needs re-shingling is like, a need, where this is just a luxury. That's why I just say if you happen to enjoy this sort of thing, then go for it. If not, don't worry about it. We're not trying to peddle this off to people that don't want it. I just take issue when people pipe up and try and say that the reason nobody should buy us is because any lay fan that keeps track of things a little bit can do the same thing we do.

I see what you're saying, CK, but the roofing job is pretty straight forward as is most jobs, meaning that there is usually only one way to do it....right. A roofer doesn't have the option of starting his shingles from the ridge and working down but has to start from the bottom up. What you guys are proposing to really has no right o wrong way. You say you study film, fine but what is a right way to do that acually? About the only way I know of to be truly accurate in predicting what our draft will be is to have a look in their draft [war] room just before he draft. In there, you will find a huge chart with columns of every position on a football team. In each column you'll find the top names of all collegiate players at those positions listed in order of preference by our FO. You'll see some info along with them, as 40 times, etc. For instance, under the QB column, they may have listed Cutler, Young, Leinhart............... and so on in oreder of our preference. That in itself does not necessarily mean if Cutler is available to us when we pick at #16 that we'll take him. Other things play into it that only Saban's group knows, things like do they prefer the BPA regardless of position or will they choose the bPA from our most need position. And these all depend on how other teams draft before us as well. Let's say that 2 marquee players fall to us, Ferguson and Cutler. If we sign a joey harrington, then the pick would be Ferguson but if the roster stays as is right now, then Cutler will be picked. If only Cutler falls and we have harrington, we may trade down. my whole point is not to rain on your parade at all but only to realize just how much a guessing game it really is. That's why the mock drafts are constantly changing daily due to the chaging circumstances. If this is what you feel you want to do, super. I'll read it as well as others but with the same POV tho. Good luck with it and one thing is for certain in it tho and that is somebody will wind up being the most accurate analysts. ;)

Marino2Clayton
04-02-2006, 07:26 PM
I have some questions?


Both Boomer and KB21 have done official draft analysis for FinHeaven, a money-making enterprise.

How is FinHeaven a money making enterprise?


evaluating film

Do you guys have coaches film or are you just watching taped tv broadcasts?


I just take issue when people pipe up and try and say that the reason nobody should buy us is because any lay fan that keeps track of things a little bit can do the same thing we do.

Are you serious?

BlueFin
04-12-2006, 11:57 AM
Well then I invite you to put your money where you mouth is and create more informative, detailed, and accurate draft predictions.

Personally I find the idea absurd that the draft is a guessing game. It reminds me of the people that say the stock market is a guessing game just because they're too lazy to do informative research.

I also find it absurd that some folks think that fans that do not spend time researching this topic can be consistently as accurate as those that do. That in turn reminds me of the year 2000 day traders that went ahead piling up uninformed day trades to stockpile money because by golly ya can't go wrong with tech! Until 2001...when they lost their life savings.

What makes a "professional" anyway? Here I thought what makes a professional is a guy who spends a lot of time plying away at his trade and makes money off it. Guess what, all three of us spend more manhours in a single day plying away at this trade than most "informed" fans do in a week or more.

If you don't think draft analysis is worth your money that is a personal choice. But don't try and pretend that 67% of the people voting are not willing to give up their money because they can predict and analyze the draft just as easily as we can. Is that arrogance? To me, no. No more arrogant than a fireman scoffing at the idea that a group of "informed" citizens could put out fires just as well as they could. No more arrogant than a trained soldier listening to someone say that a group of paintball players could whip their butt on the battlefield.

Someone, somwhere, is laughing. Wait, I think that might be me...

Well, perhaps we should have some sort of draft contest where members compete to accurately pick whom the Dolphins will select in the rounds that they possess draft picks and see just how good we all are at it?

SSMiami
04-12-2006, 02:40 PM
Well, perhaps we should have some sort of draft contest where members compete to accurately pick whom the Dolphins will select in the rounds that they possess draft picks and see just how good we all are at it?
Its not just who we pick, but info on all possable prospects, that could be selected.

ckparrothead
04-27-2006, 06:08 PM
I would just like to again urge people who are interested in chatting with Boomer, myself, and KB21 during draft day to sign up for the draft day chat we will be holding.

We believe the experience will be pleasant and well worth the measly $5 cover charge.

If you would like to sign up, you can do so by visiting www.paypal.com and opening a quick personal account, then using a credit card to make a $5 payment to ckparrothead@yahoo.com

It is important that in the email note that goes along with the payment you fill in

A) Your email address
B) Your FH nickname
C) A password that you choose for yourself

We will be using the email addy to contact you with final instructions for the Draft Chat. We will be using the other info to verify chat users during the draft to make sure we don't have free loaders.

Come chat with Boomer, KB21, and myself. We really don't think you'll regret it!