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samikit68
03-19-2006, 02:28 AM
He's the best WR in the draft. I understand miami has other needs but it would be really nice to have chambers, booker and jackson as a 1-2-3. Im not sold on Miami drafting a cb in the first with the signings of andre goodman and renaldo hill, although hill may play fs. Jackson may be the most talented player when we pick at 16. Jimmy Williams and Huff will both be gone by the time we pick and Tye Hill would be a reach imo. Just my 2 cents

icephinfan
03-19-2006, 02:30 AM
If he is there, take him!:dolphins:

Alex44
03-19-2006, 02:32 AM
Only 2 offensive players that we could justify taking

Vernon Davis *who wont be there*

or

Chad Jackson *who might be there*

AJW42083
03-19-2006, 02:35 AM
I would be apprehensive since we have so many other needs on this team... however I wouldnt complaing having him be part of our team.

DolphanD
03-19-2006, 02:44 AM
How far behind is Santonio Holmes IYO? Because one will be gone and I think either WR would benefit our offense and be an eventual replacement for Marty Booker.

I think we will be able to find a CB steal in the 4th round or even 3rd and leave LB up to FA.

SR 7
03-19-2006, 02:48 AM
He's the best WR in the draft. I understand miami has other needs but it would be really nice to have chambers, booker and jackson as a 1-2-3. Im not sold on Miami drafting a cb in the first with the signings of andre goodman and renaldo hill, although hill may play fs. Jackson may be the most talented player when we pick at 16. Jimmy Williams and Huff will both be gone by the time we pick and Tye Hill would be a reach imo. Just my 2 cents

agree adn i think saban is trying to give DC some targets and a sure handed guy to compliment the 2 we have and the soon to be number 2 guy for us ala Wayne. It woudl be a great duo as he is VERY fast..4.36 i eblieve? or was it 4.32? along wiht great hands and a awesome body just like T.O. he can be our T.O. or the up and coming and i think he is going to go via offense this year to finish it off so he can go all D in the following drafts. i think he thinks our D can do enough to hold us into games while our Off will win us games.

DolphanD
03-19-2006, 02:50 AM
Also for Chad Height/weight and speed (measurables) he sounds like he could be an unbelievably explosive player for us. But if he's gone and Santonio Holmes is there I see him as being a poor man's Steve Smith and an ideal #3 slot WR in his first two years and then if he's ready he can take over for Marty.

I'm left to believe we WILL take a WR early in this year's draft because we haven't had talks with any FA WRs except Kelly Campbell ofcourse who is more of a special teams/4th or 5th WR guy. Especially with his criminal record.

SR 7
03-19-2006, 02:51 AM
How far behind is Santonio Holmes IYO? Because one will be gone and I think either WR would benefit our offense and be an eventual replacement for Marty Booker.

I think we will be able to find a CB steal in the 4th round or even 3rd and leave LB up to FA.

exactly. arrington or peterson in which both are ONLY 27 hence young then get law if the price is right and pick up a CB/S in RD 3 and 4 and it seems to me we weill be keeping RW and not trade him away as he said he will not address the backup situatoin untill he finds out waht the situation with RW is.

bwallen
03-19-2006, 02:52 AM
draft chad then turn him in to a cb or ss he has not ran a lot of deep paters in his collage time make in the kick but cb or ss:boohoo:

playmaker1
03-19-2006, 02:53 AM
there is a draft forum

JPenedo
03-19-2006, 02:53 AM
Wow, rly glad you made this thread because I have been telling this to my friends for months now. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this guy. He is just amazing. He is like the same exact guy as chad johnson and its ironic that names are similar. At the combine, he was amazingly fast and quick. Hewon the hands contest for WRs and rly impressed the hell out of me. I would LOVE to havbe him on our team and would buy a jersey on signing day.

DolphanD
03-19-2006, 02:55 AM
there is a draft forum

I wasn't aware there was one.

MarinoForPres
03-19-2006, 03:03 AM
i think chad jackson could be there if he is nab him if not look cb and not there grab the best guy out there prolly ot winston justice

miamidolfan1354
03-19-2006, 03:21 AM
i think u guys make some really good points....
everyone gets kinda obsessed with the saying that we are weak in the secondary which leads to all these "draft a db" sayings. on top of this, everyone obsesses over our pro bowl WR Chambers this year and forgets that we have what was an average #2 in Booker and a fun to watch at best #3 WR in welker, who really is better as a return man. just like last year, when saban drafted the best available in ronnie brown, i think chad jackson is a top candidate at number 16 for us this year. especially due to the reasons already stated, the LBs available via FA and the DBs already signed....

SECfootball
03-19-2006, 03:24 AM
i think u guys make some really good points....
everyone gets kinda obsessed with the saying that we are weak in the secondary which leads to all these "draft a db" sayings. on top of this, everyone obsesses over our pro bowl WR Chambers this year and forgets that we have what was an average #2 in Booker and a fun to watch at best #3 WR in welker, who really is better as a return man. just like last year, when saban drafted the best available in ronnie brown, i think chad jackson is a top candidate at number 16 for us this year. especially due to the reasons already stated, the LBs available via FA and the DBs already signed....

Booker did fine this year with a limited amount of looks. His YPC average was among the best in the league. I do agree that we need a more solid #3 reciever, and maybe Kelly Campbell can be that guy.

We need defense or OL in the first round.

Roman529
03-19-2006, 03:26 AM
Sabam will take BPA.

HaRdKoReXXX
03-19-2006, 03:28 AM
Saban coached against Jackson at LSU so he knows how could he is. If he's there and Nick feels we need him, we'll get him. If not, we won't. simple as that. Personally I think Chad Jackson is a great wr and would love to have him, but I feel we have other concerns than a wideout to address

ATLFINFAN
03-19-2006, 10:59 AM
I also saw the competition for the wr's and Chad blew away the rest of the guys. He seems like a legit #1 wr for someone and I hope we take him in the first. That should solidify the offensive side of the ball.. backup qb and OL depth is also a need.

musphinzfan
03-19-2006, 11:16 AM
All 3(Jackson,Holmes,Moss) top WR's have speed,Hands and good route runnners...Chad is #1 and is gonna be a great 1....Keep him in Florida Nick.

phinfan_1
03-19-2006, 05:28 PM
I wouldn't complain if we got Jackson or Holmes.
But I think we'll go D in the 1st.
But Jackson looked awesome at the combine and it just wasn't his speed. The recieving skills drills he looked amazing, very soft hands. He was head and shoulders above the other receivers. Reminded me a little of Chad Johnson.
I wish Holmes would of been at the combine.

CGULLS
03-19-2006, 06:14 PM
All depends on the rest of FA and wether or not anyone will be willing to trade for picks! If we are able to pick up Arrington/Peterson I think we can get a capable corner later in the draft and take BPA in the first!!!

andysanchelima
03-19-2006, 09:09 PM
Chad is sick nasty and would hurt to pass him up but if you have chad Jackson huff or chad Greenway wuts more a need ????( huff )

Dors156
03-19-2006, 09:55 PM
if chads there and we dont take him i would be mad.i see us taking him because hes from the sec:wink:

Jaj
03-20-2006, 01:11 AM
Oh wow if Vernon Davis were there and the Fins drafted him to play WR I'd be insanely happy. Wow what a weapon...

GCD960
03-20-2006, 01:29 AM
we did come a step closer to a jackson pick today

Jaj
03-20-2006, 01:33 AM
I think Davis could play WR though and if both are available, take Davis any day.

Danny
03-20-2006, 02:22 AM
I'm all for it and have stated so all week long.
QB-Pep
RB-Brown
WR-CC
WR-Booker
WR-Jackson
TE-Randy

We'd have the most complete offence in our history...Dad was the best ever but he never had a running game so this offence would score more points and would be able to run out the clock when ahead thanks to Ronnie.

Ozzy rules!!

SMadison29
03-20-2006, 02:31 AM
You guys have just fallen in love with size & speed, that's not all that makes a football player. Santonio Holmes is still & has been the #1 WR in the draft.

Danny
03-20-2006, 10:08 AM
You guys have just fallen in love with size & speed, that's not all that makes a football player. Santonio Holmes is still & has been the #1 WR in the draft.
Even if he is, he'll be gone to Philly.

Ozzy rules!!

Motion
03-20-2006, 12:11 PM
You guys have just fallen in love with size & speed, that's not all that makes a football player. Santonio Holmes is still & has been the #1 WR in the draft.

In your opinion. Jackson has much more than just size and speed. He's just as much if not more of a "football player" than Holmes is.

Itsdahumidity
03-20-2006, 02:19 PM
You guys have just fallen in love with size & speed, that's not all that makes a football player. Santonio Holmes is still & has been the #1 WR in the draft.

Yeah I kinda agree with you. Personally I would be hesitant to draft any highly rated Florida WR early. No offense to ex & current gators on the

board, but this schools top WRs range from busts to at best "just okay" in the pros. And I do like Jackson's combine #s btw, but I refuse to use that as

a barometer for NFL success for any player. I feel the same way about top rated Buckeye LBs and Penn St RBs (L. Johnson being the recent exception).

This is why I plan to watch Jackson's & Hawk's careers closely regardless of the teams who drafts them.

Alex44
03-20-2006, 02:21 PM
You guys have just fallen in love with size & speed, that's not all that makes a football player. Santonio Holmes is still & has been the #1 WR in the draft.

Your right

But that said I also think Jackson has better hands than Holmes, and I think Jackson is a better player

Motion
03-20-2006, 02:24 PM
I love the stereotypes around here. Maybe to extent it is deserved. Its true Gator WRs haven't exactly lit up the NFL, what school's WRs have? When was the last time a Gator WR was arguably the Top WR in the draft? I could careless how past players from any school turned out in the pros. That has nothing to do with the current player.

nick1
03-20-2006, 02:27 PM
we don't have any major needs and will be able to take BPA throughout the draft, Saban likes Jackson and if he's the BPA than we will take him. he would be an upgrade at the #2 spot over Booker for sure

nick1
03-20-2006, 02:30 PM
I love the stereotypes around here. Maybe to extent it is deserved. Its true Gator WRs haven't exactly lit up the NFL, what school's WRs have? When was the last time a Gator WR was arguably the Top WR in the draft? I could careless how past players from any school turned out in the pros. That has nothing to do with the current player.
Miami wideouts have a pretty good history. S.Moss, R.Wayne, A.Johnson, M.Irvin, etc.

not trying to dispute your agruement because I agree, you can't judge a player by the history of that position at that school

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 02:37 PM
I like Holmes too. But like you pointed out. Size and speed. We already have a smaller type WR in Chambers. DC made a living throwing to a big fast WR in Moss. Someone who will win the jump ball contest all the time, or just straight burn the D. I see Jackson as that kind of WR.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 02:38 PM
I see Holmes being good in the NFL. But I think the first time he crosses the middle and gets drilled by a LB or a big S, he will get a rude awakening.Welcome to the NFL. Jackson, I dont think will have that problem.

nick1
03-20-2006, 02:42 PM
since we are talking WRs I just want to say that Brandon Marshall will be the steal of the draft, he will be a beast but has 3rd round status as of right now

Itsdahumidity
03-20-2006, 02:44 PM
I love the stereotypes around here. Maybe to extent it is deserved. Its true Gator WRs haven't exactly lit up the NFL, what school's WRs have? When was the last time a Gator WR was arguably the Top WR in the draft? I could careless how past players from any school turned out in the pros. That has nothing to do with the current player.


Speed, I am a strong proponent of judging an individual instead of unjustly grouping him, but when it comes to prospects performing in the NFL it's more than a coincidence. I don't know if it's mental or what but I can't name not one highly drafted gator WR who turned into a top NFL WR. Remember I'm only talking about the one's who scouts tout as can't miss:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/schools/FL (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/schools/FL)

Motion
03-20-2006, 02:50 PM
Miami wideouts have a pretty good history. S.Moss, R.Wayne, A.Johnson, M.Irvin, etc.


True, but using the same logic for that stereotype you should expect every Miami WR to be good.

nick1
03-20-2006, 02:54 PM
True, but using the same logic for that stereotype you should expect every Miami WR to be good.
thats true, I agree with you

Motion
03-20-2006, 02:55 PM
Speed, I am a strong proponent of judging an individual instead of unjustly grouping him, but when it comes to prospects performing in the NFL it's more than a coincidence. I don't know if it's mental or what but I can't name not one highly drafted gator WR who turned into a top NFL WR. Remember I'm only talking about the one's who scouts tout as can't miss:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/schools/FL (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/schools/FL)

That was part of my point though. You don't see a Gator WR at the top of the class all that often. Plenty of Gator WRs have had solid careers in the NFL, superstars no. But I don't see how that has anything to do with Chad Jackson, who IMO is the best WR to come out of Florida in a really long time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Its cool, I just find that stereotype very annoying. Its not like Florida has a history of 1st round WR busts or anything.

SF Dolphin Fan
03-20-2006, 02:57 PM
I think wr is a possibility, with Jackson and Holmes pretty close IMO. Holmes might actually be a better compliment to Chambers/Booker. I think a lot will depend on whether Miami is able to sign Arrington or Peterson. If not, then the Dolphins have a serious need at LB and, for Saban, I believe that would trump the need at wr. Greenway, Lawson or Carpenter if Arrington/Peterson sign elsewhere.

Itsdahumidity
03-20-2006, 03:13 PM
That was part of my point though. You don't see a Gator WR at the top of the class all that often. Plenty of Gator WRs have had solid careers in the NFL, superstars no. But I don't see how that has anything to do with Chad Jackson, who IMO is the best WR to come out of Florida in a really long time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Its cool, I just find that stereotype very annoying. Its not like Florida has a history of 1st round WR busts or anything.

Cool. Maybe I should have included a "just my opinion." :D
But I disagree w/you about UF's wr history:

"solid careers?"
Ike Hilliard + Reidel Anthony = drafted in 1st rd
Jacquez Green = 2nd rd
Travis Taylor = 1st
Jabar Gaffney = 2nd
Reche Caldwell = 2nd
Taylor Jacobs = 2nd

We're supposed to learn from history right? So staying on the thread's topic, do you really want to spend the 16th pick on this type of player or draft someone else.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 03:22 PM
at the same time, you could end up getting someone like a Rod Smith. He was undrafted. Look at his career

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 03:22 PM
^^^^Oh and for the record... I HATE the stupid broncos. I hat e them more than I hate the stupid pats. Trust me. thats alot of hate. but just a point

Motion
03-20-2006, 03:26 PM
Cool. Maybe I should have included a "just my opinion." :D
But I disagree w/you about UF's wr history:

"solid careers?"
Ike Hilliard + Reidel Anthony = drafted in 1st rd
Jacquez Green = 2nd rd
Travis Taylor = 1st
Jabar Gaffney = 2nd
Reche Caldwell = 2nd
Taylor Jacobs = 2nd

We're supposed to learn from history right? So staying on the thread's topic, do you really want to spend the 16th pick on this type of player or draft someone else.

Thats my whole point. Those guys have nothing to do with Chad Jackson. Its that stereotype, "This type of player". I have no problem admiting Florida WRs have been less than stellar in the NFL, my issue is knocking Chad Jackson because he went to Florida.

BlueFin
03-20-2006, 03:31 PM
I love the stereotypes around here. Maybe to extent it is deserved. Its true Gator WRs haven't exactly lit up the NFL, what school's WRs have? When was the last time a Gator WR was arguably the Top WR in the draft? I could careless how past players from any school turned out in the pros. That has nothing to do with the current player.

Has everyone forgotten Wes Chandler? Nat Moore? or even Cris Collinsworth for that matter.

Itsdahumidity
03-20-2006, 03:37 PM
Has everyone forgotten Wes Chandler? Nat Moore? or even Cris Collinsworth for that matter.

LOL I hear you Blue, but I'm talking recent. Mid 90s & up. We can all agree Spurrier's Fun N Gun offense set those prospects up for failure but what about when he left? Did they completely change the scheme? Anyone?

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 03:44 PM
this guy is going to be such a bust it isnt even funny.

Averaged 10 YPC in 2005 which is pathetic. Totally shut out against Georgia and LSU ( The only tough games UF played 8 catches for 50 yards).

The thing that stands out to me the most is the Sugar Bowl in 2004 against Miami when Jackson was about to be hit and he slid like a QB. Probably the softest play I have ever seen in the history of football.

Jaquez Green, Taylor Jacobs, Travis Taylor, Ike Hilliard, Riedel Anthony.......UF WR's that have gone bust because they are soft and really dont give a crap about playing ball. They just wanna get paid.

Itsdahumidity
03-20-2006, 03:46 PM
I'm not saying teams shouldn't draft C. Jackson in the first because he's going to bust, but we can't ignore the trend. Maybe it's how they

recruit/teach that position idk. There has got to be a reason ... and just because it is not clear to us doesn't mean a reason doesn't exist.

For the record I want Jackson to succeed (as long as he doesn't get drafted in our div), but I will not be surprised if the football world is not talking about him in 4 to 5 yrs from now.

burger13
03-20-2006, 03:51 PM
while I totally agree with you...........I have just one question..........

Why wouldn't you just put this in the Chad Jackson thread that was already at the top of th page???

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 03:52 PM
I hate being buried at the bottom of a thread....

my posts are that insightful.

Motion
03-20-2006, 03:54 PM
LOL I hear you Blue, but I'm talking recent. Mid 90s & up. We can all agree Spurrier's Fun N Gun offense set those prospects up for failure but what about when he left? Did they completely change the scheme? Anyone?

Yes they changed when Spurrier left. Zook ran more of a pro style system but did't have any top notch WRs. Now Meyer is there and runs a very different, spread option system, and has loads of WR talent.

Motion
03-20-2006, 03:55 PM
This is getting ridiculous.

Skeet84
03-20-2006, 03:57 PM
This is getting ridiculous.


Yeah this is! Doesn't anyone realize this is not a Steve Spurrier WR? I mean he has great speed and Great hands. The Florida Offense was horrible and look at the NCAA rankings in the Best defenses in the country. Alot came from the SEC.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 03:57 PM
I hate being buried at the bottom of a thread....

my posts are that insightful.

kinda full of your self huh?

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 03:59 PM
oh, and of all the WRs in the draft, I think Chad will be the best

burger13
03-20-2006, 04:06 PM
Santonio Holmes is the best WR in the draft IMO....I would be be very happy if we drafted him.

I think that same thing happened with Troy Williamson last year where his impressive workout numbers propelled him above players who had proven to be better football players than him throughout college. I think that the Vikings made a mistake taking him over Mike Williams or Mark Clayton....but only time will tell.

burger13
03-20-2006, 04:08 PM
well, i just said it in the other thread, but I'll say it again here....IMO, S.Holmes is the best WR in the draft.

we should come back to this thread in 4-5 years and see who was right :lol:

Disgustipate
03-20-2006, 04:14 PM
Ok I wont. :confused:

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:17 PM
Santonio Holmes will without question be a better pro than Jackson.

Jackson is not a Saban type of player. He will not draft him.

dm416
03-20-2006, 04:19 PM
We don't need a WR right now. I don't think we'll take a WR until the 2nd day

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 04:22 PM
Santonio Holmes is the best WR in the draft IMO....I would be be very happy if we drafted him.

I think that same thing happened with Troy Williamson last year where his impressive workout numbers propelled him above players who had proven to be better football players than him throughout college. I think that the Vikings made a mistake taking him over Mike Williams or Mark Clayton....but only time will tell.

good point

Motion
03-20-2006, 04:24 PM
Santonio Holmes will without question be a better pro than Jackson.

Jackson is not a Saban type of player. He will not draft him.

And your basis for this what? How is he not a Saban type player?

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 04:26 PM
Santonio Holmes will without question be a better pro than Jackson.

Jackson is not a Saban type of player. He will not draft him.

how is Jackson not a "Saban type player"? He has the speed, size, hands. Did Nick tell you this or something?

Motion
03-20-2006, 04:26 PM
Santonio Holmes is the best WR in the draft IMO....I would be be very happy if we drafted him.

I think that same thing happened with Troy Williamson last year where his impressive workout numbers propelled him above players who had proven to be better football players than him throughout college. I think that the Vikings made a mistake taking him over Mike Williams or Mark Clayton....but only time will tell.

I don't see the comparison. How exactly has Holmes "proven to be a better football player throughout college" than Jackson???

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 04:31 PM
why did these merge. one is pro chad, the other was against chad? Not sure I agree with them merging

Geforce
03-20-2006, 04:34 PM
this guy is going to be such a bust it isnt even funny.

Averaged 10 YPC in 2005 which is pathetic. Totally shut out against Georgia and LSU ( The only tough games UF played 8 catches for 50 yards).

The thing that stands out to me the most is the Sugar Bowl in 2004 against Miami when Jackson was about to be hit and he slid like a QB. Probably the softest play I have ever seen in the history of football.

Jaquez Green, Taylor Jacobs, Travis Taylor, Ike Hilliard, Riedel Anthony.......UF WR's that have gone bust because they are soft and really dont give a crap about playing ball. They just wanna get paid.
Ok I get it...you don't like Chad Jackson. You went to some website and looked up his stats and you assume you know what kind of player he is. Check you stats again because Chad wasn't totally shut out against any team last year.

I can't believe I'm giving you the satisfaction of responding. Must be a slow day for me.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 04:37 PM
Ok I get it...you don't like Chad Jackson. You went to some website and looked up his stats and you assume you know what kind of player he is. Check you stats again because Chad wasn't totally shut out against any team last year.

I can't believe I'm giving you the satisfaction of responding. Must be a slow day for me.

:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:38 PM
How about this....

Chad Jackson in big games in 2005.....

VS. Tenn 8 catches 53 yards (6 YPC) 0 TD
VS. Bama 8 cathces 50 yards (6.3 YPC) 0 TD
VS. LSU 5 catches 29 yards (5.8 YPC) 0 TD
VS. Georgia 3 catches 21 yards (7 YPC) 0 TD

I am not counting FSU. They suck and mailed it in.


Santonio Holmes in big games in 2005....

VS Texas 4 catches 73 yards (18 YPC) 1 TD
VS. Penn St. 4 catches 41 yards (10 YPC)
VS Michigan St 5 cathces 150 yards (30 YPC) 2 TD
VS Michigan 6 cathces 72 yards (12 YPC) 1 TD
VS Notre Dame 5 catches 129 yards (24 YPC) 1 TD

get the point?

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 04:39 PM
this guy is going to be such a bust it isnt even funny.

Averaged 10 YPC in 2005 which is pathetic. Totally shut out against Georgia and LSU ( The only tough games UF played 8 catches for 50 yards).

The thing that stands out to me the most is the Sugar Bowl in 2004 against Miami when Jackson was about to be hit and he slid like a QB. Probably the softest play I have ever seen in the history of football.

Jaquez Green, Taylor Jacobs, Travis Taylor, Ike Hilliard, Riedel Anthony.......UF WR's that have gone bust because they are soft and really dont give a crap about playing ball. They just wanna get paid.

that is a great number, I dont see that as pathetic at all. Im really wondering if you understand football at all

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:42 PM
10 YPC is great?

you understand that YPC menas yards per catch?

Canadi-Phin
03-20-2006, 04:43 PM
How about this....

Chad Jackson in big games in 2005.....

VS. Tenn 8 catches 53 yards (6 YPC) 0 TD
VS. Bama 8 cathces 50 yards (6.3 YPC) 0 TD
VS. LSU 5 catches 29 yards (5.8 YPC) 0 TD
VS. Georgia 3 catches 21 yards (7 YPC) 0 TD

I am not counting FSU. They suck and mailed it in.


Santonio Holmes in big games in 2005....

VS Texas 4 catches 73 yards (18 YPC) 1 TD
VS. Penn St. 4 catches 41 yards (10 YPC)
VS Michigan St 5 cathces 150 yards (30 YPC) 2 TD
VS Michigan 6 cathces 72 yards (12 YPC) 1 TD
VS Notre Dame 5 catches 129 yards (24 YPC) 1 TD

get the point?

Just curious, but how about comparing where these Defenses ranked in the country. SEC has very good defenses while Michigan State and Notre Dame play terrible pass D. I actually think both are going to be very good in the NFL because of their speed and the new rules in favour of offenses. But showing the games against crappy d's doesn't prove your point. Holmes did play well against Texas but Penn St and Michigan were very average games.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 04:45 PM
10 YPC is great?

you understand that YPC menas yards per catch?

yes I do. That is great to move the ball. It doesn't mean he never had any big catches. Just because he didn't go deep every play doesn't make him a bad WR. It shows he will help his team move the ball. There is more to the game than big plays

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:45 PM
I have seen Chad play many times as I am a Gator alum.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 04:47 PM
your an alum and your trashing him, wow :shakeno:

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:47 PM
bottom line Chad Jackson is soft and will be average in the league.

Santonio Holmes is a tough nosed player from the Muck in Belle Glade and will be a star.

how long you been following the game? I am dead on here.

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:49 PM
I am a Gator alum but not a Gator fan. I am a Miami Hurricane fan and have been for 20 years.

I am a huge college football fan and follow the draft very closely. Chad Jackson has bust written all over him. He will get a little $$$ in his pocket and will lose all interest in football.

Motion
03-20-2006, 04:50 PM
How about this....

Chad Jackson in big games in 2005.....

VS. Tenn 8 catches 53 yards (6 YPC) 0 TD
VS. Bama 8 cathces 50 yards (6.3 YPC) 0 TD
VS. LSU 5 catches 29 yards (5.8 YPC) 0 TD
VS. Georgia 3 catches 21 yards (7 YPC) 0 TD

I am not counting FSU. They suck and mailed it in.


Santonio Holmes in big games in 2005....

VS Texas 4 catches 73 yards (18 YPC) 1 TD
VS. Penn St. 4 catches 41 yards (10 YPC)
VS Michigan St 5 cathces 150 yards (30 YPC) 2 TD
VS Michigan 6 cathces 72 yards (12 YPC) 1 TD
VS Notre Dame 5 catches 129 yards (24 YPC) 1 TD

get the point?

What these numbers don't show is that Florida doesn't run a long ball offense. Most of the passes are underneath the defense, short slants and outs. They don't throw the long ball like Ohio State does.

You don't want Jackson, cool. But to say he's soft, in it for the money, not a Saban type player and he's going to be a bust is completely ridiculous.

Motion
03-20-2006, 04:52 PM
bottom line Chad Jackson is soft and will be average in the league.

Santonio Holmes is a tough nosed player from the Muck in Belle Glade and will be a star.

how long you been following the game? I am dead on here.

How are you dead on? Are you psychic? You don't know how either one will turn out.

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:53 PM
I would be willing to place a wager.

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:54 PM
Chad Jackson wont be able to function in a pro style offesne. He has played in these gimmick systems under Zook and Meyer.

Holmes is ready to step in a play from day 1

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:55 PM
How do explain his slide against Miami in the sugar bowl.

The single biggest pu$$y play I have ever seen in football period.

Motion
03-20-2006, 04:56 PM
Chad Jackson wont be able to function in a pro style offesne. He has played in these gimmick systems under Zook and Meyer.

Holmes is ready to step in a play from day 1

Where are you getting this stuff?

How was Zook's system a gimmick?

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:57 PM
how would you describe an offense that has the QB is in the shotgun every play?

You see that alot in the league? NO!

Motion
03-20-2006, 04:58 PM
how would you describe an offense that has the QB is in the shotgun every play?

You see that alot in the league? NO!

What does that have to do with the WRs? Zook's system was not a gimmick system.

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 04:59 PM
you need to see it before you defend the kid.

Motion
03-20-2006, 04:59 PM
you need to see it before you defend the kid.

I'll defend him all day buddy. I've watched him play his whole career at Florida.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 05:01 PM
how would you describe an offense that has the QB is in the shotgun every play?

You see that alot in the league? NO!

he is a WR, it doesn't matter how the QB lines up. He will still catch the ball. :shakeno:

nick1
03-20-2006, 05:05 PM
Chad Jackson wont be able to function in a pro style offesne. He has played in these gimmick systems under Zook and Meyer.

Holmes is ready to step in a play from day 1
he isn't a QB, all he needs to do is line-up and run his route. not really alot to learn for a WR

Geforce
03-20-2006, 05:18 PM
Just curious, but how about comparing where these Defenses ranked in the country. SEC has very good defenses while Michigan State and Notre Dame play terrible pass D. I actually think both are going to be very good in the NFL because of their speed and the new rules in favour of offenses. But showing the games against crappy d's doesn't prove your point. Holmes did play well against Texas but Penn St and Michigan were very average games.
The only team other than Ohio State in the Big Ten who ranked in the Top 65 in total defense was Michigan. While the only SEC team to finish out of the Top 40 was Vanderbilt. You can make your own conclusions from that.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 05:20 PM
Santonio Holmes career stats....

140 catches 2,090 yards 25TD's (15 YPC)

You really think Jackson is better?

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 05:22 PM
ok.....

Santonio Holmes at Michigan in 2003 as a freshman, 8 catches for 121 yards and two touchdowns.

That is impressive.

Motion
03-20-2006, 05:23 PM
Santonio Holmes career stats....

140 catches 2,090 yards 25TD's (15 YPC)

You really think Jackson is better?

Yes

nick1
03-20-2006, 05:26 PM
Santonio Holmes career stats....

140 catches 2,090 yards 25TD's (15 YPC)

You really think Jackson is better?
are you really trying to say Holmes will be a better pro than Jackson because of college stats :shakeno:

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 05:28 PM
why is Chad Jackson better?

Give me a big game he had that mattered or a big clutch play he made. Something other than he ran real fast at the combine. Please!

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 05:36 PM
Wanna go back to 2004?

VS LSU 1 catch 13 yards
VS Miami 2 catches 33 yards
VS Georgia 1 catch 18 yards


Tell me when to stop embarassing you.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 05:38 PM
The only team other than Ohio State in the Big Ten who ranked in the Top 65 in total defense was Michigan. While the only SEC team to finish out of the Top 40 was Vanderbilt. You can make your own conclusions from that.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org

good find G

nick1
03-20-2006, 05:38 PM
why is Chad Jackson better?

Give me a big game he had that mattered or a big clutch play he made. Something other than he ran real fast at the combine. Please!
I'll leave that to speedrush, he's seen all of his games and I haven't but does college really matter? you need to be comparing physical skills, that translates more to the NFL than stats do. Jackson is faster, has better size, a better vertical, and better hands

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 05:41 PM
you are right. On field production in big games means nothing.

Just line these guys up and who ever is the fastest and tallest, take him.

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 05:42 PM
why am I bothering. Typical NFL fans. Know nothing about the game. Thats why I love college football and their fans.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 05:45 PM
why am I bothering. Typical NFL fans. Know nothing about the game. Thats why I love college football and their fans.

your right, none of us know anything about college or NFL. :shakeno:

nick1
03-20-2006, 05:49 PM
you are right. On field production in big games means nothing.

Just line these guys up and who ever is the fastest and tallest, take him.
according to you Tom Brady would have never been a good QB in the NFL because he lacked good college stats :shakeno:

nick1
03-20-2006, 05:53 PM
and Andre Johnson isn't a good NFL WR because he only got 1,300 yards in 4 years of college :shakeno:

DBoston80
03-20-2006, 05:55 PM
The only team other than Ohio State in the Big Ten who ranked in the Top 65 in total defense was Michigan. While the only SEC team to finish out of the Top 40 was Vanderbilt. You can make your own conclusions from that.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?div=4&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org


..The Big Ten had some explosive offenses like NW, Minnesota, MSU, Purdue,OSU...so those stats are misleading a bit.

Not that any of this is relevant as to who will be a better pro between Jackson and Holmes. One unbiast argument one could make is that Santonio has been a mainstay for 3 years..Jackson is just surfacing...so its more likely Jackson would be a fluke than Holmes.

But fact is I'd love to see us draft either.

Geforce
03-20-2006, 05:57 PM
why am I bothering. Typical NFL fans. Know nothing about the game. Thats why I love college football and their fans.
Good question...why are you bothering? If your only reason for saying one player is better than another is based soley on stats or your bias towards a school, then you are right, we know nothing about the game.
Do you take into account how a player is utilized, what type of offense, the level of players around him? Stats do not and never will tell the whole story. When you come up with something more, then we might have a true discussion on the matter.

Geforce
03-20-2006, 06:04 PM
..The Big Ten had some explosive offenses like NW, Minnesota, MSU, Purdue,OSU...so those stats are misleading a bit.

Not that any of this is relevant as to who will be a better pro between Jackson and Holmes. One unbiast argument one could make is that Santonio has been a mainstay for 3 years..Jackson is just surfacing...so its more likely Jackson would be a fluke than Holmes.

But fact is I'd love to see us draft either.
I agree, those stats are misleading but they do tell part of the story. Ohio State was able to contain if not shut down most of the teams in the conference.

Jackson emergence this year is largely the part of Urban Meyer giving a similar challenge to his players that Nick Saban gave to the Dolphins. To be accountable for how you play.

I'm not trying make a case for either player being better than the other. I think both have bright futures ahead of them and wouldn't mind seeing either in a Dolphins uniform next year.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 06:07 PM
Good question...why are you bothering? If your only reason for saying one player is better than another is based soley on stats or your bias towards a school, then you are right, we know nothing about the game.
Do you take into account how a player is utilized, what type of offense, the level of players around him? Stats do not and never will tell the whole story. When you come up with something more, then we might have a true discussion on the matter.

well said

Motion
03-20-2006, 06:32 PM
you are right. On field production in big games means nothing.

Just line these guys up and who ever is the fastest and tallest, take him.

How can anyone use "on field production" as an argument against Chad Jackson, coming off a record setting year at a school that has a pass happy history???

Motion
03-20-2006, 06:33 PM
Good question...why are you bothering? If your only reason for saying one player is better than another is based soley on stats or your bias towards a school, then you are right, we know nothing about the game.
Do you take into account how a player is utilized, what type of offense, the level of players around him? Stats do not and never will tell the whole story. When you come up with something more, then we might have a true discussion on the matter.

Very well said.

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 06:36 PM
How do explain 5 YPC in big games

burger13
03-20-2006, 06:54 PM
I don't see the comparison. How exactly has Holmes "proven to be a better football player throughout college" than Jackson???

first just let me make this clear....I'm not predicting doom for Jackson or anything....I don't pretend to be able to see the future, but I do have my preferences....in this case it's Holmes.

My comparison to T.Williamson is based off of this: at the conclusion of this year, Holmes was projected as the best WR, based off of his body of work in college......but then after combine, where players are measured and timed and all of that, all of a sudden, many are enamored with Jackson. That's the same thing that happened with Williamson. IMO, I would value what I saw on the football field, not in shorts and t-shirts.

playmaker1
03-20-2006, 06:59 PM
first just let me make this clear....I'm not predicting doom for Jackson or anything....I don't pretend to be able to see the future, but I do have my preferences....in this case it's Holmes.

My comparison to T.Williamson is based off of this: at the conclusion of this year, Holmes was projected as the best WR, based off of his body of work in college......but then after combine, where players are measured and timed and all of that, all of a sudden, many are enamored with Jackson. That's the same thing that happened with Williamson. IMO, I would value what I saw on the football field, not in shorts and t-shirts.

this is very true, but I see Jackson a better WR than Williamson. I also think what team they go to will be big, and how they are used in that O

Finfan14
03-20-2006, 08:55 PM
why is Jackson better than Williamson.

I have yet to hear someone give me a reason. He dissapears in big games and is soft.

nick1
03-20-2006, 10:30 PM
why is Jackson better than Williamson.

I have yet to hear someone give me a reason. He dissapears in big games and is soft.
where is your evidence to that fact? :shakeno: if you were the football fan you claim to be than why do you base your agruement on stats alone? what about the fact that he has faced tougher Ds? did you consider that Holmes had Ginn Jr. at the other WR spot and that Jackson had nobody? and maybe OSU has a better QB than Florida does. you must consider all of the variables, stats don't tell the whole story

Vertical Limit
03-20-2006, 11:20 PM
I would draft Chad Jackson because Marty Booker won't be with us in 2007, especially with the salary cap hit he's bringing.

Chad Jackson is an unbeleivable athelete. He will have a far better career than Braylon Edwards, and would be a HUGE upgrade over Marty.

SMadison29
03-21-2006, 12:35 AM
and Andre Johnson isn't a good NFL WR because he only got 1,300 yards in 4 years of college :shakeno:

Johnson had 1700 yards in 3 years of college football & averaged over 20 yards per catch. The reason he went so high was because he had the rare combination of size (6'3 227), speed (4.3), hands, awareness, knowledge of a pro system, & his two years experience learning from two of the U's best ever (Santana & Reggie) & his two years of starting experience being the #1 man.

Chad Jackson has a nice combination of size (6'1 213) & speed (4.3) but he lacks experience & the knowledge of a pro system. He's been at a disadvantage playing in two fantasy offenses that he'll never see in the NFL. He also only has one year of starting & significant playing experience. Though he'll probably be a top 20 pick he could have used another year in college where he could have come out next year & been a top 5 pick like Andre Johnson.

SMadison29
03-21-2006, 12:50 AM
Thats my whole point. Those guys have nothing to do with Chad Jackson. Its that stereotype, "This type of player". I have no problem admiting Florida WRs have been less than stellar in the NFL, my issue is knocking Chad Jackson because he went to Florida.

The stereotype comes from Florida's history at WR, those players who have been decent at best have already been listed but left out 2nd rounder Jabar Gaffney. The stereotype is also derived from the fantasy offenses Florida runs where the WRs waste 3-4 years learning a scheme that doesn't translate to the NFL & when they get to the show they're a couple years behind the learning curve. Jackson has great potential but he's not going to come in & help anyone for at least a year & probably two.

Geforce
03-21-2006, 01:48 AM
Johnson had 1700 yards in 3 years of college football & averaged over 20 yards per catch. The reason he went so high was because he had the rare combination of size (6'3 227), speed (4.3), hands, awareness, knowledge of a pro system, & his two years experience learning from two of the U's best ever (Santana & Reggie) & his two years of starting experience being the #1 man.

Chad Jackson has a nice combination of size (6'1 213) & speed (4.3) but he lacks experience & the knowledge of a pro system. He's been at a disadvantage playing in two fantasy offenses that he'll never see in the NFL. He also only has one year of starting & significant playing experience. Though he'll probably be a top 20 pick he could have used another year in college where he could have come out next year & been a top 5 pick like Andre Johnson.

Good post. This is perhaps the best argument against Chad Jackson that I've read yet. I do agree with you that he could have used another year in college. However, in a year where the WR position is considered the weakest in years, he probably made the correct decision to come out early because you never know what might happen next year.

playmaker1
03-21-2006, 03:27 AM
The stereotype comes from Florida's history at WR, those players who have been decent at best have already been listed but left out 2nd rounder Jabar Gaffney. The stereotype is also derived from the fantasy offenses Florida runs where the WRs waste 3-4 years learning a scheme that doesn't translate to the NFL & when they get to the show they're a couple years behind the learning curve. Jackson has great potential but he's not going to come in & help anyone for at least a year & probably two.

I dont agree with that. He is a WR. Different systems dont affect ther eplay as much. He has the hands, speed, and is pretty smart on the field. Any team that drafts him will get that right away. He will be a great WR in the NFL do to his skills. With some NFL coaching, he will be great, and soon

nick1
03-21-2006, 08:18 AM
Johnson had 1700 yards in 3 years of college football & averaged over 20 yards per catch. The reason he went so high was because he had the rare combination of size (6'3 227), speed (4.3), hands, awareness, knowledge of a pro system, & his two years experience learning from two of the U's best ever (Santana & Reggie) & his two years of starting experience being the #1 man.

Chad Jackson has a nice combination of size (6'1 213) & speed (4.3) but he lacks experience & the knowledge of a pro system. He's been at a disadvantage playing in two fantasy offenses that he'll never see in the NFL. He also only has one year of starting & significant playing experience. Though he'll probably be a top 20 pick he could have used another year in college where he could have come out next year & been a top 5 pick like Andre Johnson.
the system doesn't matter much when your talking about WRs, they still line-up, run routes and catch the ball. the only thing different about a system for a WR is they might be asked to block more

Finfan14
03-21-2006, 08:20 AM
you guys just dont get it.

Listen up children...please explain Chad's dissapearing act in big games.

Can any of you kids follow directions?

nick1
03-21-2006, 08:55 AM
you guys just dont get it.

Listen up children...please explain Chad's dissapearing act in bug games.

Can any of you kids follow directions?
thats all your basing your agruement on and it doesn't hold much water, the QB needs to find him in those situations and did Leak do so?

Motion
03-21-2006, 09:48 AM
you guys just dont get it.

Listen up children...please explain Chad's dissapearing act in bug games.

Can any of you kids follow directions?

First off, don't come in here and talk down to anyone calling them children and kids.

Secondly, Florida's offense was mediocre at best this season in their first year under Meyer, he'll be the first to tell you that. It was Leak's job to find the open man and make the plays. Meyer's offense is not based on the long ball, for someone that claims to know so much about the game of football you should know this.

Finfan14
03-21-2006, 10:02 AM
How do you explain this.....

Wyoming 10 catches 138 yards 3 TD's
Louisiana Tec 5 catches 105 yards 1 TD
Kentucky 8 catches 99 yards 2 TD

Seems like there was some long balls in those games. So Chad has a tough time gettin open against good cover guys. GREAT!


What it seems like to me is that Chad plays well against lesser competition. He wont be playing against Wyoming next year.

I want a guy that has done it in big games.

Ronnie Brown got it done in big games.

Motion
03-21-2006, 10:12 AM
How do you explain this.....

Wyoming 10 catches 138 yards 3 TD's
Louisiana Tec 5 catches 105 yards 1 TD
Kentucky 8 catches 99 yards 2 TD

Seems like there was some long balls in those games. So Chad has a tough time gettin open against good cover guys. GREAT!


What it seems like to me is that Chad plays well against lesser competition. He wont be playing against Wyoming next year.

I want a guy that has done it in big games.

Ronnie Brown got it done in big games.

Like I said, Leak has to get him the ball to make the plays. Those were also his best games. Everyone plays better against lesser competition, thats a given.

Geforce
03-21-2006, 10:21 AM
How do you explain this.....

Wyoming 10 catches 138 yards 3 TD's
Louisiana Tec 5 catches 105 yards 1 TD
Kentucky 8 catches 99 yards 2 TD

Seems like there was some long balls in those games. So Chad has a tough time gettin open against good cover guys. GREAT!


What it seems like to me is that Chad plays well against lesser competition. He wont be playing against Wyoming next year.

I want a guy that has done it in big games.

Ronnie Brown got it done in big games.
Once again, all you have done is posted stats. It is apparent to me that you do not read all the post or just respond to ones you can have an issue with. I will say this again so that you may be able to understand. Other than the stats you have posted, which most have agreed DO NOT tell the whole story or your bias against the Gators, do you have that Chad Jackson either disappeared in big games or is soft. Did you actually watch any of the games from 2005 or what? You want to have an intelligent discussion on the matter, well...now is the time to put up or shut up.

Finfan14
03-21-2006, 10:38 AM
Football is all about making big plays in big games.

When has Chad Jackson made a big play in a big game? Please tell me.

There are alot of big fast guy out there. How many are play makers?

Phishstix
03-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Football is all about making big plays in big games.

When has Chad Jackson made a big play in a big game? Please tell me.


does an 80 yard td rec. vs tennessee count? he's also had good games vs fsu and s. carolina, as well as the bowl game vs iowa. remember, it's not all about him. is cc a bad wr b/c he's had bad games vs the pats? maybe it had to due w/ the fact that fielder/feeley/frerotte/whoever was the qb, or the line couldn't protect, or there was no running game, etc. leak struggled in the new scheme, and the o-line had horrific protection problems the whole season, and those deficiencies showed vs good, aggressive defenses like uga and lsu.

nick1
03-21-2006, 11:39 AM
I for one am done agrueing about this, you haven't done anything but bring up college stats. it's useless

playmaker1
03-21-2006, 01:50 PM
Football is all about making big plays in big games.

When has Chad Jackson made a big play in a big game? Please tell me.

There are alot of big fast guy out there. How many are play makers?

man, are you still crying over this today :shakeno:

SMadison29
03-22-2006, 01:58 PM
I dont agree with that. He is a WR. Different systems dont affect ther eplay as much. He has the hands, speed, and is pretty smart on the field. Any team that drafts him will get that right away. He will be a great WR in the NFL do to his skills. With some NFL coaching, he will be great, and soon

The fantasy schemes obviously do effect WRs. The history in this is far too great to argue against it. All the first day picks: Ike Hilliard, Reidel Anthony, Jacquez Green, Travis McGriff, Travis Taylor, Darrell Jackson, Jabar Gaffney, Reche Caldwell, & Taylor Jacobs, all were great talents in college but because of the offense they're held back from knowledge & experience of the real game. The only one prove himself better than mediocre is Darrell Jackson. You can say that WRs still run routes & catch the ball but it's more than that. It's about the match-ups & defenses they face, & the routes run in Urban's offense are short & quick. In general, spread offense WRs aren't successful in the NFL.