PDA

View Full Version : Why are Fin's Meeting With Young?



trainwreck
03-26-2006, 01:23 AM
Found this on KFFL, seems kind of odd. Vince would NEVER last until #16.




Dolphins | Team looking to meet with V. Young
Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:47:34 -0800

Alex Marvez, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports NFL draft analyst Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, said Saturday, March 25, on Sirius Satellite Radio the Miami Dolphins have scheduled a visit with University of Texas QB Vince Young in South Florida April 9 and 10. The Dolphins, who declined comment about Young, host about 20 to 25 college players on pre-draft visits. It still seems unlikely that Young would be available when the Dolphins select at No. 16.

motioncityhifi
03-26-2006, 01:25 AM
due diligence

AtticusFinz
03-26-2006, 01:25 AM
all the teams met with Young except for 2.

Jimmy James
03-26-2006, 01:28 AM
I'm not so sure that Vince will be snapped up by the time the Dolphins pick. I cannot imagine them drafting him even if that happens, but why not take a meeting with the guy?

trainwreck
03-26-2006, 01:29 AM
all the teams met with Young except for 2.

Really? I didn't know that. Seems like it would be a waste of time considering
the Fins pick at #16 and we don't have the ammo to move up.
They could be evaluating other talent.
Thanks for the heads-up though Finsletmedown.

Flame
03-26-2006, 01:29 AM
Not like it cost money or anything

Perfect23
03-26-2006, 01:31 AM
He is gonna be terrible in the NFL he is gonna be another Andre Ware or even Kordell Stewart.

trainwreck
03-26-2006, 01:32 AM
Not like it cost money or anything

Well, the plane ticket/ ride comes from somewhere, but to me its wasted time if there is no way you would pick that player.

Nublar7
03-26-2006, 01:34 AM
Well, the plane ticket/ ride comes from somewhere, but to me its wasted time if there is no way you would pick that player.
Looks like we actually may be interested in Young.


It still seems unlikely that Young would be available when the Dolphins select at No. 16. But by lining up a pre-draft visit, it appears the Dolphins might ponder trading up to select Young if he slides like Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers unexpectedly did in last year's draft.

Such a move wouldn't immediately impact Culpepper, as the Dolphins have shown they are willing to make a long-term commitment provided he can regain the form that made him one of the NFL's top quarterbacks in 2004. But it's understandable that the Dolphins would want to explore the option of selecting Young and grooming him for the future should the opportunity present itself.

romio
03-26-2006, 01:35 AM
SABANS SMART GAME PLANNING HE GETS TO KNOW THE REAL V YOUNG KEEPS IT ON FILE WE MEET AGAIN SOMEDAY ON OPPOSITE SIDES:evil:

AtticusFinz
03-26-2006, 01:36 AM
He is gonna be terrible in the NFL he is gonna be another Andre Ware or even Kordell Stewart.
I disagree
Im not a big fan of Vince Young but you cant ignore the fact the guy is a Winner and a great Leader..
You just cant pass on clutch guy with a 938. winning percentage

NickJr.
03-26-2006, 01:36 AM
He is gonna be terrible in the NFL he is gonna be another Andre Ware or even Kordell Stewart.

Not that it means anything, but Kordell Stewart went to the Pro Bowl with Mularkey as his OC

trainwreck
03-26-2006, 01:37 AM
Looks like we actually may be interested in Young.

Thanks, Nub. Good night yall.

Super Mario
03-26-2006, 01:40 AM
Culpepper is the man in South Beach now so Young doesnt matter

Roman529
03-26-2006, 01:40 AM
It's a courtesy call.

BrazForPhins
03-26-2006, 01:50 AM
imho that's to make teams picking behind us, interested in young, think about trading up with us, in case he slips draft day. just that

Commie_000
03-26-2006, 01:50 AM
people just like looking at him throw...

MarinoForPres
03-26-2006, 02:00 AM
they just want to look at him b/c of his athleticism and want to evaluate him and see what they think of his talents. they need to make sure they arent missing something big just scouts being scouts.

Goin` Deep
03-26-2006, 02:26 AM
He is gonna be terrible in the NFL he is gonna be another Andre Ware or even Kordell Stewart.
Young will have a way more productive NFL career than Ware or Stewart (not that Stewarts career was all that bad). Did you happen to watch the Rose Bowl? The guy beat arguably one of the best collegiate teams of alltime (USC had 1 loss in two years) and he led the NCAA in passing his senior year, playing against damn good opponents. He has all the tools...yeah, maybe he scored a stupid on the Wunderlich test, and that`s freaking a few people out, but he`s the real deal.

Phishstix
03-26-2006, 02:44 AM
He is gonna be terrible in the NFL he is gonna be another Andre Ware.

did you ever see andre ware play? if so, tell me the similarities b/w ware and young.

icephinfan
03-26-2006, 03:14 AM
Found this on KFFL, seems kind of odd. Vince would NEVER last until #16.




Dolphins | Team looking to meet with V. Young
Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:47:34 -0800

Alex Marvez, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports NFL draft analyst Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, said Saturday, March 25, on Sirius Satellite Radio the Miami Dolphins have scheduled a visit with University of Texas QB Vince Young in South Florida April 9 and 10. The Dolphins, who declined comment about Young, host about 20 to 25 college players on pre-draft visits. It still seems unlikely that Young would be available when the Dolphins select at No. 16.

What up Train,
yeah that is kind of odd, but you know Saban Mr. Mastermind

ChrisJNelson
03-26-2006, 03:47 AM
It's possible, albeit unlikely, Young falls to No. 16. Nevetheless, Saban is just preparing for anything. That's what smart coaches do. No need to read any more into the situation.

DefensiveEnd#76
03-26-2006, 08:09 AM
I guarantee you that if for some:mdfin: :mdfin: reason Vince Young falls to the 16th pick, Saban will draft him in a second. Young would be the best player available and he would be ours. :couch2:

AXAFinFan
03-26-2006, 08:19 AM
He is gonna be terrible in the NFL he is gonna be another Andre Ware or even Kordell Stewart.

Do you think you could consult your crystal ball again and let us know who wins the Superbowl next year? :confused:

cnc66
03-26-2006, 08:20 AM
imho that's to make teams picking behind us, interested in young, think about trading up with us, in case he slips draft day. just that

I think this is exactly the case. We have a new QB, somehow if VY was still there we would have to convince those after us that covet him that we WILL take him. It the threat of him not making it past us can be passed off as real, we might gain a tradeing partner that did not exist before.

What a delima that would be eh?

like2god
03-26-2006, 08:34 AM
I just read the same thing on the Sun Sentinal website. I Hope Saban and Mueller are smokescreening on this one. We have other needs right now. And after spending a 2nd on Daunte, a probowler, why would we want to waste a 1st on an unproven Qb? I feel best available Db/Lb is the way to go with our 1st.

Scotland11
03-26-2006, 08:37 AM
I think this is exactly the case. We have a new QB, somehow if VY was still there we would have to convince those after us that covet him that we WILL take him. It the threat of him not making it past us can be passed off as real, we might gain a tradeing partner that did not exist before.

What a delima that would be eh?

Imagine if he did fall to us and we traded out of that spot and Daunte never really recovers from his injury while Young becomes everything Mike Vick should be and better!

Still, thats improbable and as has been said it due dilligence to check a number of players. If you check the top 20-25 players in the draft then at no. 16, one of these guys will fall to you and you can select BPA or whatever with a good knowledge of the player.

XXXSURTAINXXX
03-26-2006, 08:44 AM
Becasue we are giving up #16 and next years 1st and 3rd to get him. Watch!!!! It will happen.

PhinSoldia
03-26-2006, 08:47 AM
because he will be available when we pick TRUST....and

@@@
03-26-2006, 08:48 AM
Maybe we're considering him as a WR......

cnc66
03-26-2006, 08:54 AM
Becasue we are giving up #16 and next years 1st and 3rd to get him. Watch!!!! It will happen.

what are you talking about...I'm missing something...hep me out bro...

tcdrover
03-26-2006, 09:00 AM
I think this is exactly the case. We have a new QB, somehow if VY was still there we would have to convince those after us that covet him that we WILL take him. It the threat of him not making it past us can be passed off as real, we might gain a tradeing partner that did not exist before.

What a delima that would be eh?

I think that's it as well. He's doing it just in case Young does slip and another team might want to trade up.

We need more draft picks. Anyone notice how many the Patriots have, compared to we've got...:shakeno:

:dolphins:

cnc66
03-26-2006, 09:06 AM
I think that's it as well. He's doing it just in case Young does slip and another team might want to trade up.

We need more draft picks. Anyone notice how many the Patriots have, compared to we've got...:shakeno:

:dolphins:

we might not have them all but we got great value for each one we used... that being said I too want more picks, I just want Nick to be able to use his advantage before it expires.

like2god
03-26-2006, 09:16 AM
what are you talking about...I'm missing something...hep me out bro...

Sarcasm my friend....Sarcasm :D

poornate
03-26-2006, 09:25 AM
Radford University....thinking about going back to get my Masters from there as well....oh yeah 2001....

poornate
03-26-2006, 09:26 AM
....sorry....to threads open....hit up the wrong one...

AXAFinFan
03-26-2006, 09:27 AM
Becasue we are giving up #16 and next years 1st and 3rd to get him. Watch!!!! It will happen.

Maybe we can throw in Ricky and Josh Shaw to sweeten the deal! :lol:

(of course with the expectation that Shaw will get cut so we can sign him AGAIN at a later date)

CrunchTime
03-26-2006, 09:28 AM
Smoke and Mirrors.Saban is looking for a partner to trade down with.If per chance Young drops to our spot there will be plenty of teams willing to move up.

I dont envision a move to trade up.It would cost us our first pick next year.Too expensive for a project.

Phins28
03-26-2006, 09:29 AM
Found this on KFFL, seems kind of odd. Vince would NEVER last until #16.




Dolphins | Team looking to meet with V. Young
Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:47:34 -0800

Alex Marvez, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports NFL draft analyst Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, said Saturday, March 25, on Sirius Satellite Radio the Miami Dolphins have scheduled a visit with University of Texas QB Vince Young in South Florida April 9 and 10. The Dolphins, who declined comment about Young, host about 20 to 25 college players on pre-draft visits. It still seems unlikely that Young would be available when the Dolphins select at No. 16.

Saban's smoke screen :blowup:

Vertical Limit
03-26-2006, 09:41 AM
Vince Young will not be a Miami Dolphin. Trust me, I don't think Nick Saban is dumb enough to waste another pick on a quarterback and I'll be damned if he did (Traded a 6th for Cleo Lemon, and a 2nd on Daunte Culpepper), especially on a QB like Vince Young; a guy that if he is not drafted at number 10 in Arizona, then he will likely fall to the 20's-30's of the draft or even fall to the 2nd round.

Arizona would be the best fit for him with the offensive weapons they have. But they too might have doubts of Vince ever being a successful QB in the NFL. If Arizona passes on him, then he will end up falling down dramatically, probably even worse than Aaron Rodgers did in the 2005 draft.

Only reason why I see Vince visiting with Miami is for a possible "trade down" situation with a team that has a lower draft pick than us that might have some interest in Vince Young if he did in fact fell to the #16 spot. By trading down, we might get a low first rounder and possibly a 2nd rounder and more.

taldolfin
03-26-2006, 09:47 AM
:wink: You dont show your hand....you bluff alot....thats the NFL....Did we all think that Aaron Rodgers was a top 5 draft pick with all that crap you heard before the draft?......Its to make others think were are interested and let someone else think we might take him.....We all know we are going to take a cover corner Or best available player.....

CubanCulebra
03-26-2006, 09:52 AM
You must be prepared incase Vince falls to 16 which is improbable but not impossible. By the way, if he does fall to Miami, ofcourse you have to take him. A top 5 QB falling to 16, and we have a starting QB who may or may not be available for the season openner or may or may not ever be the same QB he was before? Not to mention the trade value Vince may posses this year or the next. If Cutler or Young fall to 16, mark my words, Saban will take them.

Mrmiami
03-26-2006, 10:13 AM
He is gonna be terrible in the NFL he is gonna be another Andre Ware or even Kordell Stewart.


I think that you obviously had not seen Young play. He appears to be Prototype QB along the lines of Elway,McNabb and Culpepper. I'm not saying he'll be as good as them, only time will tell that but as far as his arm,running and avoiding/breaking tackles he's right there with them. I believe that he will do one heck of a job with the NFL and we would be foolish to overlook Young as a viable candidate for a QB. I would love to have Young on our team as our QB but don't think he'll be there at #16-perhaps a trade working out with one of the higher up's grabbing for us for someone plus our #16. To me, if we get our additional LB taken care of, this would be a great move.

cnc66
03-26-2006, 10:16 AM
Vince Young will not be a Miami Dolphin. Trust me, I don't think Nick Saban is dumb enough to waste another pick on a quarterback

Only reason why I see Vince visiting with Miami is for a possible "trade down" situation with a team that has a lower draft pick than us that might have some interest in Vince Young if he did in fact fell to the #16 spot. By trading down, we might get a low first rounder and possibly a 2nd rounder and more.

why should we trust you? is Nick calling you at night to fill you in?:goof:

"dumb enough to waste ANOTHER pick"...he hasn't wasted anything.. we got GREAT value for our picks. Mueller has stated he believes in picking up a QB every draft and Nick has said we will likely carry four qb's this year. All of this helps set up your last paragraph.

The last paragraph makes perfect sense to me, I am hoping against hope we get lucky and have the proper ammo to effect a trade. Go Fins !

Mrmiami
03-26-2006, 10:21 AM
Smoke and Mirrors.Saban is looking for a partner to trade down with.If per chance Young drops to our spot there will be plenty of teams willing to move up.

I dont envision a move to trade up.It would cost us our first pick next year.Too expensive for a project.

If that be the case (which it would be ridiculous) why do we even have to bring him in if were only gonna trade him away? There is nothing for us to see if he's not even gonna be here. I think Saban and FO ave better things to be doing with their free time with less than 2 weeks before the Draft, don't you? We had better be bringing in people to look at that are actually going to play for our team at this point.

tcdrover
03-26-2006, 10:21 AM
I think that you obviously had not seen Young play. He appears to be Prototype QB along the lines of Elway,McNabb and Culpepper. I'm not saying he'll be as good as them, only time will tell that but as far as his arm,running and avoiding/breaking tackles he's right there with them. I believe that he will do one heck of a job with the NFL and we would be foolish to overlook Young as a viable candidate for a QB. I would love to have Young on our team as our QB but don't think he'll be there at #16-perhaps a trade working out with one of the higher up's grabbing for us for someone plus our #16. To me, if we get our additional LB taken care of, this would be a great move.

He looked superb. I love the way he dodged all the phantom defenders and read all those incredibly complex phantom defensive schemes. :lol:

Pro QB's SHOULD look great when they're just throwing passes in shorts...

Even if Daunte isn't ready to start because of his knee, he will still be ready before Mr wunderlick learns our offense & even begins to adapt to the pro game...

tcdrover
03-26-2006, 10:25 AM
If that be the case (which it would be ridiculous) why do we even have to bring him in if were only gonna trade him away? There is nothing for us to see if he's not even gonna be here. I think Saban and FO ave better things to be doing with their free time with less than 2 weeks before the Draft, don't you? We had better be bringing in people to look at that are actually going to play for our team at this point.

They've already said to the media that they bring in players constantly to start files on them, not just because we are going to sign them.

They bring him in theoretically because after his 1st contract with whatever team signs him is up we have some info on file in case we might want him later, or to better game plan against him. Saban spoke about this last year on one of his interviews after the media kept pestering him...

EndZone13
03-26-2006, 10:29 AM
Vince Young will not be a Miami Dolphin. Trust me, I don't think Nick Saban is dumb enough to waste another pick on a quarterback and I'll be damned if he did (Traded a 6th for Cleo Lemon, and a 2nd on Daunte Culpepper), especially on a QB like Vince Young; a guy that if he is not drafted at number 10 in Arizona, then he will likely fall to the 20's-30's of the draft or even fall to the 2nd round.

Arizona would be the best fit for him with the offensive weapons they have. But they too might have doubts of Vince ever being a successful QB in the NFL. If Arizona passes on him, then he will end up falling down dramatically, probably even worse than Aaron Rodgers did in the 2005 draft.

Only reason why I see Vince visiting with Miami is for a possible "trade down" situation with a team that has a lower draft pick than us that might have some interest in Vince Young if he did in fact fell to the #16 spot. By trading down, we might get a low first rounder and possibly a 2nd rounder and more.

That's what was on my mind, the fact that Nick knows that young QB's taken and developed are worth draft picks later, and he's gonna need a few extra as our O & D lines and other areas are going to need new legs in the very near future. We have a couple of players Manny Wright, Alabi, CJ Brooks, Josh Shaw, Orin Thompson, John Denny etc are all in either development stage or soon to be practice squad dummys unless they are able to compete against our current starters. If Saban could somehow get in a trade or three way trade or two, then he could accumulate picks that could snowball into more just by knowing which teams want certain players and holding them for ransom like Wannstedt was bilked into trading up and losing a pick to get an offensive lineman when he really wasn't going to be taken.(Carey, I believe).
Remember that we don't have a second, but if Saban can somehow get an extra 3rd or 4th, there is a lot of depth in this draft in several areas. It has to fall to later rounds as you can't take all the best talent in the first round, and even the best Kiper, etc don't know where all the beasts or studs are. Those extra 7th rd picks we have may get someone that starts by next yr if not before. It's the small school coaches that pro coaches know that helps get real talent. Lets hope sabans scouts have a lot of names in the 06 draft bag to select from that others don't know about. His card player bluffing skills and poker face won't hurt anything.
:cooldude::dolphins::cooldude:

cnc66
03-26-2006, 10:33 AM
If that be the case (which it would be ridiculous) why do we even have to bring him in if were only gonna trade him away? There is nothing for us to see if he's not even gonna be here. I think Saban and FO ave better things to be doing with their free time with less than 2 weeks before the Draft, don't you? We had better be bringing in people to look at that are actually going to play for our team at this point.

I think Nick is a better judge of how to effectively use his time than you are.

If you don't get it yet, it is unlikely anything I can say will enlighten you, but I will try. It's really a simple concept...if the guy below you doesn't believe you will take their coveted player...that you will indeed pass on him then why WOULD they trade up? If you can FOOL them into thinking their coveted player is at risk you have a CHANCE they might trade up.

IF VY fell to us doncha think it would be handy to have actually worked him out rather then take some elses word for it? How could Nick properly judge the best course of action if he didn't personally put his staff on it and learn just how much...or how little talent will carry over into the NFL.

Jersey54
03-26-2006, 10:40 AM
Found this on KFFL, seems kind of odd. Vince would NEVER last until #16.




Dolphins | Team looking to meet with V. Young
Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:47:34 -0800

Alex Marvez, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports NFL draft analyst Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, said Saturday, March 25, on Sirius Satellite Radio the Miami Dolphins have scheduled a visit with University of Texas QB Vince Young in South Florida April 9 and 10. The Dolphins, who declined comment about Young, host about 20 to 25 college players on pre-draft visits. It still seems unlikely that Young would be available when the Dolphins select at No. 16.

He could be a great value pick at 16 or they may just want to seem interested so if he's still there other teams may want to trade up to get him.
Saban has a plan for everything. He doesn't do anything on a whim.

Jersey54
03-26-2006, 10:41 AM
I think Nick is a better judge of how to effectively use his time than you are.

If you don't get it yet, it is unlikely anything I can say will enlighten you, but I will try. It's really a simple concept...if the guy below you doesn't believe you will take their coveted player...that you will indeed pass on him then why WOULD they trade up? If you can FOOL them into thinking their coveted player is at risk you have a CHANCE they might trade up.

IF VY fell to us doncha think it would be handy to have actually worked him out rather then take some elses word for it? How could Nick properly judge the best course of action if he didn't personally put his staff on it and learn just how much...or how little talent will carry over into the NFL.

agreed

LarryFinFan
03-26-2006, 10:41 AM
Found this on KFFL, seems kind of odd. Vince would NEVER last until #16.




Dolphins | Team looking to meet with V. Young
Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:47:34 -0800

Alex Marvez, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports NFL draft analyst Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, said Saturday, March 25, on Sirius Satellite Radio the Miami Dolphins have scheduled a visit with University of Texas QB Vince Young in South Florida April 9 and 10. The Dolphins, who declined comment about Young, host about 20 to 25 college players on pre-draft visits. It still seems unlikely that Young would be available when the Dolphins select at No. 16.


First off, it's not so far fetched that he could drop to us, given the teams in front of us that have acquired QBs and secondly, they would be remiss if they didn't meet with all the prospective 1st round candidates...If Saban did not have good substantial scouting from his people he wouldn't draft someone on a whim. IF Young or anyone else who is slated to go above us happens to drop, Saban has to be prepared for that as well...besides that, who knows what other teams may offer in terms of a trade ??

This is just due diligence so that the 'surprise' would be that someone of Young's ilk falls to us, not that we were unprepared with a solid opinion of him...

Phins28
03-26-2006, 10:44 AM
I think Nick is a better judge of how to effectively use his time than you are.

If you don't get it yet, it is unlikely anything I can say will enlighten you, but I will try. It's really a simple concept...if the guy below you doesn't believe you will take their coveted player...that you will indeed pass on him then why WOULD they trade up? If you can FOOL them into thinking their coveted player is at risk you have a CHANCE they might trade up.

IF VY fell to us doncha think it would be handy to have actually worked him out rather then take some elses word for it? How could Nick properly judge the best course of action if he didn't personally put his staff on it and learn just how much...or how little talent will carry over into the NFL.

I agree 100%

Gardenhead
03-26-2006, 10:46 AM
I think working out Young is great for all the reasons stated in this thread.

However, if VY were hanging around at #16, I say trade down if we can get value (whatever Saban considers to be value, that is). This team STILL has too many holes to fill. I looove VY as a player, but we need to address other positions.

VY will be a great pro, for somebody else. We have too many needs to fill. We can't afford to spend a #1 pick on a guy who won't start for years to come.

finfan54
03-26-2006, 10:49 AM
It's a courtesy call.


maybe. maybe not.:D

ih8brady
03-26-2006, 10:51 AM
I doubt we'll draft him(and I'd be suicidal if we do---I don't see him living up to the hype) because we have Daunte BUT we have to keep our poker face if ya know what I mean...

finfan54
03-26-2006, 10:53 AM
I think Nick is a better judge of how to effectively use his time than you are.

If you don't get it yet, it is unlikely anything I can say will enlighten you, but I will try. It's really a simple concept...if the guy below you doesn't believe you will take their coveted player...that you will indeed pass on him then why WOULD they trade up? If you can FOOL them into thinking their coveted player is at risk you have a CHANCE they might trade up.

IF VY fell to us doncha think it would be handy to have actually worked him out rather then take some elses word for it? How could Nick properly judge the best course of action if he didn't personally put his staff on it and learn just how much...or how little talent will carry over into the NFL.


How bout the fact that Saban likes big athletic QB's? How bout the fact that we need another QB? How bout the fact that we could end up having the same type QB one-two? I think Saban has his players ranked. And I dont think Saban is just playing a game. I think he actually likes the possibility of having these two and VY can be used in Mularkeys O and also not skip a beat and have a guy who can score TD's at will. Whether we would trade down or not would depend on what would be offered. If VY drops to 16, he will seriously consider taking him. He is no dummy like some people on this board. He is better than Micheal Vick and Vick was a #1 pick in the draft.

finfan54
03-26-2006, 10:54 AM
I doubt we'll draft him(and I'd be suicidal if we do---I don't see him living up to the hype) because we have Daunte BUT we have to keep our poker face if ya know what I mean...


what hype? it is cutler who has all the hype.

PhInAtIc_99_54
03-26-2006, 10:55 AM
even if he did drop to # 16, it will never happen, why would we draft him, we already have culpepper.i can see if we get a qb in the later rounds like 4, 5, 6, but not a vince young

cnc66
03-26-2006, 11:04 AM
How bout the fact that Saban likes big athletic QB's? How bout the fact that we need another QB? How bout the fact that we could end up having the same type QB one-two? I think Saban has his players ranked. And I dont think Saban is just playing a game. I think he actually likes the possibility of having these two and VY can be used in Mularkeys O and also not skip a beat and have a guy who can score TD's at will. Whether we would trade down or not would depend on what would be offered. If VY drops to 16, he will seriously consider taking him. He is no dummy like some people on this board. He is better than Micheal Vick and Vick was a #1 pick in the draft.

good post, don't ferget Lemon, he is also atheletic and could play the same playbook.

finfever4ever
03-26-2006, 11:06 AM
Our biggest need is LB right now. I believe we addressed our secondary issues especially if we resign Schulters. If we sign Arrington then we should address our O-line. I however don't see us picking up Young even if he falls to our slot in the draft. But like many of you have said we could very well be claiming to be interested as to convince lower seeded draft teams to trade up. This would be a good thing, we are definately headed in the right direction. And if we can trade down Saban will have more picks to fill our needs with. Saban surely seems to know how to evaluate talent, and would seemingly be able to secure fine youth for the team for the future.

:dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins:

BigDogsHunt
03-26-2006, 11:07 AM
This meeting isnt as much about our 1st round use at #16, as it could be about three basic principles Nick Saban employs in personnel areas.

1) You never let your perception or other people's opinions override reality. You meet one-on-one with as many players (whether you have a shot at them this year or not) to build a foundation from an interview perspective. You can than use this foundation for future interviews if this player ever becomes available down the road. You are creating a booklet on all possible personnel decisions. He has done it with his ex-College, ex-NFL players before and its a comfort factor during FA times.

2) You always, always, give the illusion of interests in players that may or may not come your way, from trading up or trading down. Its to late come draft day! So you have to set the seeds in the ground now, so the fruit will be ready for plucking in due time. Teams behind us get nervous, and teams in front of us can get confused and lose focus.

3) Especially with a guy like Vince Young and the circus-like atmosphere since he announced going pro. You have to weed out all the hoopla and heresay. This gives Nick a chance to get one-on-one and can figure out if all the noise is meaningless or not. Perhaps one day it benefits him regarding another player in a similar situation. No harm, no foul to atleast chat with the guy, and charkboard some football related things.

Saban and Mueller have done well so far, no reason to second guess them now based on our opinions. Let them work their magic.

footballer
03-26-2006, 11:25 AM
i bet they didnt meet with lienrt.

etsudolfan
03-26-2006, 11:33 AM
Now I am very grateful that we have Culpepper now and definitely excited! However, I don't see any harm in at least taking a long look at Young. I mean if the guy is still available at number 16..I would consider taking him. Young is a good quaterback....I believe he will do alright in the NFL....I also believe that he will take a few years to develop/groom anyways. If we did pick him up..he would be a good back up plan and add depth to the roster. He's no worse than Cleo Lemon (no disrespect towards Lemon, but he's unproven too and is on our roster). But overall I am more excited about us having Culpepper! I hope he has a great season with us and at least gets us to the playoffs or wins our division. Go Fins!:dolphins:

PhinPhreak
03-26-2006, 11:34 AM
How bout the fact that Saban likes big athletic QB's? How bout the fact that we need another QB? How bout the fact that we could end up having the same type QB one-two? I think Saban has his players ranked. And I dont think Saban is just playing a game. I think he actually likes the possibility of having these two and VY can be used in Mularkeys O and also not skip a beat and have a guy who can score TD's at will. Whether we would trade down or not would depend on what would be offered. If VY drops to 16, he will seriously consider taking him. He is no dummy like some people on this board. He is better than Micheal Vick and Vick was a #1 pick in the draft.



This would not preclude us from adding a young quarterback some kind of way in the mix if that was the best player available in the draft. There are two things about the draft; there are needs on your team, but there is also value to your team. The players that you have on your team have value. The combination of both of those things can help you have a better team. There are some teams out there, and I’m not mentioning any names and we were in it too, that have really good, young backup quarterbacks, just as an example. Because those guys were drafted and developed and they played fairly well when they’ve had to play, even though they don’t have a tremendous history or a great body of work to evaluate them from, when they’ve done it, they showed tremendous potential. They have value. People are throwing out high draft picks, asking higher than what we gave up to get a guy who’s been to three Pro Bowls, for guys who have just started a few games, and demanding pretty good players in trades because of the nature of this position. I don’t think it precludes the fact that if the best player available played this position that we would pass up picking him because of our current situation


Exactly FF, Saban said himself in the Culpepper press conference that if A QB fell to them they would consider taking him, he said with the way people are offering high picks for unproven backups the value of the pick would have to be considered. Now it could be a bluff, but what he said is true. Look at what has been being offered for Matt Schaub, Phillip Rivers, look what Rob Johnson and AJ Feeley went for. :lol:

I agree there are more stressing needs but I wouldn't be surprised either.

Stefins
03-26-2006, 11:39 AM
worst thread ever.

Motion
03-26-2006, 11:54 AM
people just like looking at him throw...

:rolleyes2 Yeah cause his throwing motion is so pretty!

cnc66
03-26-2006, 11:54 AM
This meeting isn't as much about our 1st round use at #16, as it could be about three basic principles Nick Saban employs in personnel areas.

1) You never yet your perception or other people's opinions override reality. You meet one-on-one with as many players (whether you have a shot at them this year or not) to build a foundation from an interview perspective. You can than use this foundation for future interviews if this player ever becomes available down the road. You are creating a booklet on all possible personnel decisions. He has done it with his ex-College, ex-NFL players before and its a comfort factor during FA times.

2) You always, always, give the illusion of interests in players that may or may not come your way, from trading up or trading down. Its too late come draft day! So you have to set the seeds in the ground now, so the fruit will be ready for plucking in due time. Teams behind us get nervous, and teams in front of us can get confused and lose focus.

3) Especially with a guy like Vince Young and the circus-like atmosphere since he announced going pro. You have to weed out all the hoopla and heresay. This gives Nick a chance to get one-on-one and can figure out if all the noise is meaningless or not. Perhaps one day it benefits him regarding another player in a similar situation. No harm, no foul to atleast chat with the guy, and charkboard some football related things.


Saban and Mueller have done well so far, no reason to second guess them now based on our opinions. Let them work their magic.

great post 66

#1, I think you may have been the first to bring this up as a complete thought. The concept has been rattling around in my own head for awhile but it just never became one coherent thought. It is evident in evaluations that he has been using prior knowledge often, look at the guys he has so far chosen. well put 66

#2 I totally agree with this. I think Nick is always sending deliberately confusing signals to our 31 opponents. Even to the point of maybe driving up the costs of people he knows he really doesn't want because every single cost he can add to his 31 enemies might get US a better deal somewhere.

#3, I think Nick may be a shrewd evaluator of people in person and uses these meetings to judge heart and personal character.

remember what Bill Belichick has said...that Nick Saban is the most complete coach he knows. Every single thing we have witnessed so far points to this being a fair evaluation of Nicks thoroughness.

Bigbucks24
03-26-2006, 12:23 PM
This meeting isnt as much about our 1st round use at #16, as it could be about three basic principles Nick Saban employs in personnel areas.

1) You never yet your perception or other people's opinions override reality. You meet one-on-one with as many players (whether you have a shot at them this year or not) to build a foundation from an interview perspective. You can than use this foundation for future interviews if this player ever becomes available down the road. You are creating a booklet on all possible personnel decisions. He has done it with his ex-College, ex-NFL players before and its a comfort factor during FA times.

2) You always, always, give the illusion of interests in players that may or may not come your way, from trading up or trading down. Its too late come draft day! So you have to set the seeds in the ground now, so the fruit will be ready for plucking in due time. Teams behind us get nervous, and teams in front of us can get confused and lose focus.

3) Especially with a guy like Vince Young and the circus-like atmosphere since he announced going pro. You have to weed out all the hoopla and heresay. This gives Nick a chance to get one-on-one and can figure out if all the noise is meaningless or not. Perhaps one day it benefits him regarding another player in a similar situation. No harm, no foul to atleast chat with the guy, and charkboard some football related things.

Saban and Mueller have done well so far, no reason to second guess them now based on our opinions. Let them work their magic.

I agree completely with this post. Multiple reasons that Saban would meet with Vince. My opinion, from what I have read, is that Vince does drop to us at 16. Again, from what I have read and my logic, I don't believe that we would draft him. It seems to me that we are looking for a QB that can start in case Dante cannot start the season. I don't think Vince Young would be that person. We just spend a 2nd on a QB that is in his prime. Had we signed someone a little older and near the end (Favre for example), then bringing in someone to take over in a couple of years would make sense. But it is my beliefe that Dante will be here for more than a couple of years. To draft Vince to trade later, ala Rivers, doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. I don't think SD would get value for Rivers if they traded him (4th overall pick). They surely didn't get value for Brees when they let him go. Drafting the BPA only goes so far. If Indy got a high pick next year and the BPA was Quinn, do you think they would draft him? So they could pay that much money to 2 QB's? Or would they draft a WR if he were the BPA? I really don't think so. With the salary cap, you can only tie so much money up in one position.

So, all that babbling means I agree with the post and don't think we draft Vince.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
03-26-2006, 12:36 PM
i bet they didnt meet with lienrt.
because leinart won't fall out of the top 10.

CrunchTime
03-26-2006, 12:45 PM
Exactly FF, Saban said himself in the Culpepper press conference that if A QB fell to them they would consider taking him, he said with the way people are offering high picks for unproven backups the value of the pick would have to be considered. Now it could be a bluff, but what he said is true. Look at what has been being offered for Matt Schaub, Phillip Rivers, look what Rob Johnson and AJ Feeley went for. :lol:

I agree there are more stressing needs but I wouldn't be surprised either.

This is what Jimmy Johnson said after he drafted Steve Walsh in the first round even when the Cowboys already had Troy Aikman.




Quarterback Value
A lot of teams don't understand the pure value of drafting a quarterback. When I was in Dallas, the only other guy was Ron Wolf in Green Bay. I can remember in 1990 because we were a bad team with had the first pick in the supplemental draft. So, we took U. of Miami quarterback Steve Walsh.

Jerry Jones was saying, 'We don't need another quarterback.' I knew that we didn't need two rookie quarterbacks growing old together. But I knew that Walsh had value. We had to be guarded about our opinion of Walsh. I had to walk a tightrope with the media and with Troy. We couldn't downplay Walsh's ability, but I knew Aikman was my quarterback.

We got one year out of him as a backup and then we got a three draft choices from New Orleans for Walsh. I gave up a first rounder and got back a one, two and a three. Now that's value. If a team can, they should consider drafting a quarterback every year because if they hit on somebody, they have value. So many teams make it hard on themselves. They often research a guy so much; they research themselves out of taking someone they really want.


This could be on Sabans mind also.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
03-26-2006, 12:46 PM
This is what Jimmy Johnson said when he drafted Steve Walsh in the first round even when the Cowboys already had Troy Aikman.
wasn't that a supplemental draft pick?

CrunchTime
03-26-2006, 12:52 PM
wasn't that a supplemental draft pick?

Yes but he had to give up a first round pick the following year .Thats how supplemental draft work.

Caldolfan
03-26-2006, 01:00 PM
I hope when he starts falling to us we trade so somebody else can get the head case. Vince Young is the next Ryan Leaf.

Vertical Limit
03-26-2006, 01:02 PM
because leinart won't fall out of the top 10.
You should edit that. Leinart will not fall out of the Top 2.

Fin Fan in Cali
03-26-2006, 01:02 PM
This meeting isnt as much about our 1st round use at #16, as it could be about three basic principles Nick Saban employs in personnel areas.

1) You never yet your perception or other people's opinions override reality. You meet one-on-one with as many players (whether you have a shot at them this year or not) to build a foundation from an interview perspective. You can than use this foundation for future interviews if this player ever becomes available down the road. You are creating a booklet on all possible personnel decisions. He has done it with his ex-College, ex-NFL players before and its a comfort factor during FA times.

2) You always, always, give the illusion of interests in players that may or may not come your way, from trading up or trading down. Its too late come draft day! So you have to set the seeds in the ground now, so the fruit will be ready for plucking in due time. Teams behind us get nervous, and teams in front of us can get confused and lose focus.

3) Especially with a guy like Vince Young and the circus-like atmosphere since he announced going pro. You have to weed out all the hoopla and heresay. This gives Nick a chance to get one-on-one and can figure out if all the noise is meaningless or not. Perhaps one day it benefits him regarding another player in a similar situation. No harm, no foul to atleast chat with the guy, and charkboard some football related things.

Saban and Mueller have done well so far, no reason to second guess them now based on our opinions. Let them work their magic.Great post Brother!:ffic: Meet with as many players you can, and learn about them one on one, and keep the other 31 teams guessing!:wink:

Finsfan79
03-26-2006, 01:27 PM
meeting with him just to learn some more about him. Saban brought in alot of FA's just for the purpse of meeting them and getting to knwo them

IowaDolfan
03-26-2006, 01:30 PM
A team should always explore every option. Don't leave any stone unturned. The Dolphins would be remiss (<----Notice crafty use of word) if they did not interview Young.

jlfin
03-26-2006, 01:35 PM
Found this on KFFL, seems kind of odd. Vince would NEVER last until #16.




Dolphins | Team looking to meet with V. Young
Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:47:34 -0800

Alex Marvez, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports NFL draft analyst Gil Brandt, of NFL.com, said Saturday, March 25, on Sirius Satellite Radio the Miami Dolphins have scheduled a visit with University of Texas QB Vince Young in South Florida April 9 and 10. The Dolphins, who declined comment about Young, host about 20 to 25 college players on pre-draft visits. It still seems unlikely that Young would be available when the Dolphins select at No. 16.

The staff is covering all bases. If they have a high grade on him and he drops to 16, then he's a good value pick and possible trade bait in the future.
Nobody thought Roethlisberger would last to the 11th pick either.
The Dolphins are just being thorough and diligent in their preparation for the draft, which is what I think we all would expect.

finfan54
03-26-2006, 02:06 PM
One also has to wnder if Denver would take someone like Young at #15 now. Could this be one reason? Shanahan would love a Vince Young I would think, and rightly so.

finfan54
03-26-2006, 02:07 PM
The staff is covering all bases. If they have a high grade on him and he drops to 16, then he's a good value pick and possible trade bait in the future.
Nobody thought Roethlisberger would last to the 11th pick either.
The Dolphins are just being thorough and diligent in their preparation for the draft, which is what I think we all would expect.


I can absolutely gaurrantee that Nick Saban would never draft someone only to have trade bait in the future.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
03-26-2006, 02:07 PM
Yes but he had to give up a first round pick the following year .Thats how supplemental draft work.
yup.

finfan54
03-26-2006, 02:12 PM
Exactly FF, Saban said himself in the Culpepper press conference that if A QB fell to them they would consider taking him, he said with the way people are offering high picks for unproven backups the value of the pick would have to be considered. Now it could be a bluff, but what he said is true. Look at what has been being offered for Matt Schaub, Phillip Rivers, look what Rob Johnson and AJ Feeley went for. :lol:

I agree there are more stressing needs but I wouldn't be surprised either.


And that would go for Jay Cutler too I believe. Its just that Young is the one being talked about as dropping. I see Denver snaggin him at 15 though and if they do, look out cus you know shanahan is going to design that whole offense around him.

cnc66
03-26-2006, 02:17 PM
I can absolutely gaurrantee that Nick Saban would never draft someone only to have trade bait in the future.

that's funny, he has said he would do exactly that...

CRAZYDOLFAN305
03-26-2006, 02:21 PM
that's funny, he has said he would do exactly that...

He sure did..

PhinPhreak
03-26-2006, 02:31 PM
And that would go for Jay Cutler too I believe. Its just that Young is the one being talked about as dropping. I see Denver snaggin him at 15 though and if they do, look out cus you know shanahan is going to design that whole offense around him.


I agree, I don't see that he would fall past Denver either, unless they have plans to try to move up and grab Cutler.

I heard a RUMOR the other day that there was a possibility of the Broncos trading their 2 1st's for the Bills 1st (8th pick) and Moulds. That really wouldn't be that bad of a trade for Broncos, they would have their WR and have a great chance at a QB. Not really sure how much Moulds has left but if he has anything left it could be a true possibility.

ChrisJNelson
03-26-2006, 02:35 PM
I agree, I don't see that he would fall past Denver either, unless they have plans to try to move up and grab Cutler.

I heard a RUMOR the other day that there was a possibility of the Broncos trading their 2 1st's for the Bills 1st (8th pick) and Moulds. That really wouldn't be that bad of a trade for Broncos, they would have their WR and have a great chance at a QB. Not really sure how much Moulds has left but if he has anything left it could be a true possibility.

That makes a lot of sense. I know Denver wants to draft a young QB, and I think there's a good chance one of the three falls to No. 8. Only problem is they'd still need to inject some youth into that receiving corps. Then again, they've gotten pretty far with just Rod Smith.

finfan54
03-26-2006, 02:39 PM
I agree, I don't see that he would fall past Denver either, unless they have plans to try to move up and grab Cutler.

I heard a RUMOR the other day that there was a possibility of the Broncos trading their 2 1st's for the Bills 1st (8th pick) and Moulds. That really wouldn't be that bad of a trade for Broncos, they would have their WR and have a great chance at a QB. Not really sure how much Moulds has left but if he has anything left it could be a true possibility.


yeah, it could be true because Denver seems to be making moves from those two number ones and they have to be after something in particular.

finfan54
03-26-2006, 02:40 PM
that's funny, he has said he would do exactly that...


maybe as a move like the Giants/chargers did two years ago in a situation when it happens right there but that is not what I mean by "trade bait in the future". Not ten minutes into the future.And if this were so, then the isnt the motive to trade down anyways? So if this is his motive in the end, then we will no doubt be trading down for some bigtime payoff of picks.


but Denver may have put all that talk in the can already.

ChrisJNelson
03-26-2006, 02:48 PM
yeah, it could be true because Denver seems to be making moves from those two number ones and they have to be after something in particular.

Well they took part in the Atlanta upgrade because it was a steal for them, at least according to the trade value chart. Nearly free upgrade.

utahphinsfan
03-26-2006, 03:02 PM
Nick & Randy IMO are just covering all the bases. If they throw out a few red herrings then all the better.

I don't think VY will be a total wash out. Who knows in 7-10 years we could be looking back and saying this was quite the year to draft TE's; M. Lewis, Pope, & 2 from UT (D. Thomas & VY after he doesn't make it @ QB).

jlfin
03-26-2006, 03:11 PM
I can absolutely gaurrantee that Nick Saban would never draft someone only to have trade bait in the future.

A value pick is a value pick. I'd rather see them draft a top 5 talent at 16 then reach for a guy simply based on need.
Anybody remember Billy Milner, John Bosa, Lorenzo Hampton, Eric Kumerow.
All those guys were reaches.
If Young drops to 16 you have to take him. If he shows something during the preseason then his value will be very high and you might be able to get a high 1st rd pick for him or a very good veteran player that fills an area of need.
If you think he's a special player then you keep him and trade or cut DC after 2 yrs.

finfan54
03-26-2006, 03:19 PM
A value pick is a value pick. I'd rather see them draft a top 5 talent at 16 then reach for a guy simply based on need.
Anybody remember Billy Milner, John Bosa, Lorenzo Hampton, Eric Kumerow.
All those guys were reaches.
If Young drops to 16 you have to take him. If he shows something during the preseason then his value will be very high and you might be able to get a high 1st rd pick for him or a very good veteran player that fills an area of need.
If you think he's a special player then you keep him and trade or cut DC after 2 yrs.

I cannot disagree with that whatsoever. The guy carries a team on his back. Ist that what marino used to do? Isnt Marino the guy who fell to us at 23 in 83?

I dont get these people who say VY is a loser propostion at QB in the NFL when he has a resume bigger than anyone at the QB position in college than most. His size and athleticism is enough to make you go wow and then you watch film and go wow. I dont get it. Value? You better believe it. VY is the kind of guy who looks average in shorts dropping back with no one covering or coming at him, but in a game, he comes alive.

If anyone is going to not make it in this league from all the hype it is Jay Cutler, who has proven that he can bench press 23 times. Oh im sorry, he can make all the throws in shorts......or he is head and shoulders way better than VY. Gimme a break already!

MexDolfan
03-26-2006, 03:24 PM
If VY is on our #16 pick we will pick him no matter what

nopony
03-26-2006, 03:25 PM
There is another angle to this debate...

If you draft Young at 16, you are not only getting a potential future pro bowl quarterback...

You are IMMEDIATELY getting a valuable option quarterback and even reciever. That would automatically make him the most valuable non-starting QB in football.

jaxdolfan
03-26-2006, 03:54 PM
We are meeting with young in case he falls to us. Heck if he even gets near us and other teams know we are interested...the value of our pick goes up for any potential trade.

Just think getting a later first and our 2nd rounder back. Culpepper for free then.

DwayneWade
03-26-2006, 04:15 PM
Vince Young will not be a Miami Dolphin. Trust me, I don't think Nick Saban is dumb enough to waste another pick on a quarterback and I'll be damned if he did (Traded a 6th for Cleo Lemon, and a 2nd on Daunte Culpepper), especially on a QB like Vince Young; a guy that if he is not drafted at number 10 in Arizona, then he will likely fall to the 20's-30's of the draft or even fall to the 2nd round.

Arizona would be the best fit for him with the offensive weapons they have. But they too might have doubts of Vince ever being a successful QB in the NFL. If Arizona passes on him, then he will end up falling down dramatically, probably even worse than Aaron Rodgers did in the 2005 draft.

Only reason why I see Vince visiting with Miami is for a possible "trade down" situation with a team that has a lower draft pick than us that might have some interest in Vince Young if he did in fact fell to the #16 spot. By trading down, we might get a low first rounder and possibly a 2nd rounder and more.

Thats never gonna happen bro.

PhinPhreak
03-26-2006, 04:38 PM
Could you imagine this board if the Fins pass on Young, CPep doesn't come back from his injury, and Young goes on to be a Pro Bowl QB.

Hell people still haven't gotten over the Moss situation, and JJ never really passed on him as much as some people felt he did.

Shula always said that they never intended on drafting a QB in 83 until Dan dropped and they felt he was to good to pass up. I for one am glad that they went against their plans and drafted a QB that year. :D

BigDogsHunt
03-26-2006, 04:40 PM
There is another angle to this debate...

If you draft Young at 16, you are not only getting a potential future pro bowl quarterback...

You are IMMEDIATELY getting a valuable option quarterback and even reciever. That would automatically make him the most valuable non-starting QB in football.

NoPony -

The only way I see us taking VY at #16 is if in these one-on-one interviews Saban hears what he needs, and Vince gives him positive feedback that while learing how to improve to play the "NFL QB" position he would be a team player and learn WR as well.

But as of right now, Vince hasnt moved from his stance that he doesnt need to change to be an NFL QB and doesnt want to hear about playing WR in NFL.

If VY falls to #16, and Saban hasnt got a positive vibe from VY from either an NFL QB situation, or WR situation, I would be willing to bet that he will be available at #17 right after we pick.

Fin_72
03-26-2006, 04:46 PM
On the news I heard that VY combine went down and now he is on the #13 in the draft by the Ravens.I wouldn't be surprised if we got him.We do need a younger QB because what if culpepper gets hurt like every year we will need a backup.

kingfin
03-26-2006, 05:04 PM
I dont no what is on sabans mind.maybe its to pump up culpepper

icephinfan
03-26-2006, 05:13 PM
Nick Saban is making all the other teams think harder!!

Finfanforever
03-26-2006, 05:30 PM
Becasue we are giving up #16 and next years 1st and 3rd to get him. Watch!!!! It will happen.

NO WAY Saban gives up the #16th pick for a PROJECT!...much less an additional 3rd. Your DREAMING! Can you say SMOKESCREEN!:sidelol:

nopony
03-26-2006, 05:40 PM
NoPony -

The only way I see us taking VY at #16 is if in these one-on-one interviews Saban hears what he needs, and Vince gives him positive feedback that while learing how to improve to play the "NFL QB" position he would be a team player and learn WR as well.

But as of right now, Vince hasnt moved from his stance that he doesnt need to change to be an NFL QB and doesnt want to hear about playing WR in NFL.

If VY falls to #16, and Saban hasnt got a positive vibe from VY from either an NFL QB situation, or WR situation, I would be willing to bet that he will be available at #17 right after we pick.

Oh, I agree with all of that. I didn't mean for Vince to play WR full-time... I meant designing specific plays to use him at QB and wide-out a few times a game... sort of a reverse Randle-El with superstar talent.

That could give him real value as a back-up while he develops.

And, for the record, I don't think he should agree to consider being a wide reciever. He has a chance to be a hall of fame caliber QB. Will he be? No idea. The odds are, as with all rookie QBs, against him.

But man, if he could deliver on the promise he shows and continue the rate of development he's shown, he could dominate as much as one player can in this particular sport.

Finfanforever
03-26-2006, 05:40 PM
why should we trust you? is Nick calling you at night to fill you in?:goof:

"dumb enough to waste ANOTHER pick"...he hasn't wasted anything.. we got GREAT value for our picks. Mueller has stated he believes in picking up a QB every draft and Nick has said we will likely carry four qb's this year. All of this helps set up your last paragraph.

The last paragraph makes perfect sense to me, I am hoping against hope we get lucky and have the proper ammo to effect a trade. Go Fins !

I do not know about "trusting" CNC66 but I know (opinon) this team is four positions from making a run at the SUPERBOWL: CB, LB, WR, S. I don't think Saban is going to use that#16th pick on Young for that very reason. I do think he wants EVERYBODY ELSE to think he just might... hence the term "Smokescreen".

nopony
03-26-2006, 05:44 PM
NO WAY Saban gives up the #16th pick for a PROJECT!...much less an additional 3rd. Your DREAMING! Can you say SMOKESCREEN!:sidelol:

Good grief. Every single player in the draft is a project. He was the leading passer in college football last year.

I think all this talk of him falling is a smoke screen... it's the media looking for something convtroversial to discuss in the dead days a month before the draft.

He will still go way before we draft.

But if he DID fall... Saban wouldn't be stupid at all to take him.

Dolfan1034
03-26-2006, 05:48 PM
I'm sure you guys already saw the article on the front page, but here is another that talks about Dolphins possibly looking at Young being Culpepper's apprentice. He would be very nice to have, but he defintely will not go that far down.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2385107

PHINFREAK3675
03-26-2006, 05:49 PM
yes... we already no.

MCMike81
03-26-2006, 05:50 PM
you mean you already "Know" not you already "no"

icephinfan
03-26-2006, 05:51 PM
Is there any news, that is new?

Finfanforever
03-26-2006, 05:51 PM
Good grief. Every single player in the draft is a project. He was the leading passer in college football last year.

I think all this talk of him falling is a smoke screen... it's the media looking for something convtroversial to discuss in the dead days a month before the draft.

He will still go way before we draft.

But if he DID fall... Saban wouldn't be stupid at all to take him.

NO KIDDING! But some picks will be more of a project than others. I do not want to get into some Fishypete-type discussion about this but xxxsurtainxxx said give "the 16th AND a 3rd to get Young" That is absolutely laughable! Young is a gamble that could blossum as a star in the NFL...but then he may be a MAJOR bust. As close as the FINS are to a serious Superbowl run, there is NO WAY IN HE11 Saban takes YOUNG at the #16th pick, much less give up a 3rd in addition. :sidelol:

PHINFREAK3675
03-26-2006, 05:52 PM
yes... we already "know"

are you happy now?

BigDogsHunt
03-26-2006, 05:58 PM
Oh, I agree with all of that. I didn't mean for Vince to play WR full-time... I meant designing specific plays to use him at QB and wide-out a few times a game... sort of a reverse Randle-El with superstar talent.

That could give him real value as a back-up while he develops.

And, for the record, I don't think he should agree to consider being a wide reciever. He has a chance to be a hall of fame caliber QB. Will he be? No idea. The odds are, as with all rookie QBs, against him.

But man, if he could deliver on the promise he shows and continue the rate of development he's shown, he could dominate as much as one player can in this particular sport.

Ok, but has Vince shown you that he has what it takes to have this kind of mindset? And I dont mean anything having to do with his Wonderlic score. I mean, do you get the sense that VY is mentally prepared and acceptable to playing this type of role....being committed and selling his decoy assingments to sell the gadget plays like a Randel El? Plus on some plays he would have to run WR routes to sell the Gadgets as well and run them crisply, etc.

I am buying into Saban carrying 4 QB's on the Roster (CP, vet backup, Lemon, and drafted rookie). VY is intriguing from an athletic perspective, he is a heck of a college talent, and I think could be an NFL athlete.

And if I heard him open his mouth and actually say, "I am a team guy, glad to be in the NFL, will do whatever is asked of me in the meantime, but would love the chance to learn and prove the doubter wrong that I could make it one day as an NFL QB" then yes, I would consider drafting the Athlete at #16 (but if he said this he would also be a lock top 5 pick too).

Its just so far, VY has come from a different angle. An arrogent angle (and not just a confident, cocky, or hubris angle) that doesnt convey this open minded, team player approach. However, he is convinced himself he doesnt need to change anything about his motion or approach to be NFL ready at QB. I think thats wrong for almost every college QB.

Have you heard him differently? Do you think he would give his all, show patience to learn the NFL QB postion, and work his tail off in any other role asked of him to help the team on offense?

nopony
03-26-2006, 06:14 PM
NO KIDDING! But some picks will be more of a project than others. I do not want to get into some Fishypete-type discussion about this but xxxsurtainxxx said give "the 16th AND a 3rd to get Young" That is absolutely laughable! Young is a gamble that could blossum as a star in the NFL...but then he may be a MAJOR bust. As close as the FINS are to a serious Superbowl run, there is NO WAY IN HE11 Saban takes YOUNG at the #16th pick, much less give up a 3rd in addition. :sidelol:

Sorry, we just have to disagree over what is "laughabe".

You could argue that it would be a bad move for us, but in no way can you argue that it is laughable.

Anybody in the draft can be a bust. Major or otherwise.

I have no idea why you think so little of Young, but you should understand that it is personal and not objectively realistic.

It's not laughable to give up a mid-first and a third for a guy who could legitimately go #1. Not saying he will, just that he could.

Don't believe the pre-draft controversy hype. he will go high.

nopony
03-26-2006, 06:19 PM
Ok, but has Vince shown you that he has what it takes to have this kind of mindset? And I dont mean anything having to do with his Wonderlic score. I mean, do you get the sense that VY is mentally prepared and acceptable to playing this type of role....being committed and selling his decoy assingments to sell the gadget plays like a Randel El? Plus on some plays he would have to run WR routes to sell the Gadgets as well and run them crisply, etc.

I am buying into Saban carrying 4 QB's on the Roster (CP, vet backup, Lemon, and drafted rookie). VY is intriguing from an athletic perspective, he is a heck of a college talent, and I think could be an NFL athlete.

And if I heard him open his mouth and actually say, "I am a team guy, glad to be in the NFL, will do whatever is asked of me in the meantime, but would love the chance to learn and prove the doubter wrong that I could make it one day as an NFL QB" then yes, I would consider drafting the Athlete at #16 (but if he said this he would also be a lock top 5 pick too).

Its just so far, VY has come from a different angle. An arrogent angle (and not just a confident, cocky, or hubris angle) that doesnt convey this open minded, team player approach. However, he is convinced himself he doesnt need to change anything about his motion or approach to be NFL ready at QB. I think thats wrong for almost every college QB.

Have you heard him differently? Do you think he would give his all, show patience to learn the NFL QB postion, and work his tale off in any other role asked of him to help the team on offense?

I have no idea what he would do... but I find it hard to believe he would balk at being an option quarterback as a rookie.

I will say that I find him less arrogant than leinart and MUCH less arrogant than Cutler, who strikes me as a bit of a Leaf attitude.

Young actually strikes me like the arrogance/confidence of a guy who knows he's a star... not someone with ego problems. His teammates talk non-stop abot his confidence and his ability to project that on to them, to make them always believe that they could win.

As far as "not changing anything", every quote I have read from him is in response to people who want to reinvent him... and he is right to say no. SAme with Rivers, or Marino or a ton of other unconventional throwers.

I have heard nothing from him that indicates an unwillingness to learn of adjust.

One thing, in fact, that is so impressive about Young is how much better he got every year... he grew in leaps and bounds. I have to believe that given solid NFL coaching, that trend would continue.

Finfanforever
03-26-2006, 06:22 PM
Sorry, we just have to disagree over what is "laughabe".

You could argue that it would be a bad move for us, but in no way can you argue that it is laughable.

Anybody in the draft can be a bust. Major or otherwise.

I have no idea why you think so little of Young, but you should understand that it is personal and not objectively realistic.

It's not laughable to give up a mid-first and a third for a guy who could legitimately go #1. Not saying he will, just that he could.

Don't believe the pre-draft controversy hype. he will go high.

Well EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion...but for the record I'll be conservative and say Young WILL NOT go in the top 10. Later I might even say top 15...but not yet. Young is a gifted ATHLETE no question. But I believe that his stock is falling. How far??? maybe as far as the top 20. The argument is the DOLPHINS giving up a 16 and a 3rd to move up to get Young. It's just NOT going to happen. This draft has to many gifted, low gamble prospects for Saban to do that.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
03-26-2006, 06:23 PM
leinart isn't arrogant at all.

nopony
03-26-2006, 06:33 PM
Well EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion...but for the record I'll be conservative and say Young WILL NOT go in the top 10. Later I might even say top 15...but not yet. Young is a gifted ATHLETE no question. But I believe that his stock is falling. How far??? maybe as far as the top 20. The argument is the DOLPHINS giving up a 16 and a 3rd to move up to get Young. It's just NOT going to happen. This draft has to many gifted, low gamble prospects for Saban to do that.

Well, I guess we'll see where he goes, won't we?

As for what Saban would do... I recall a lot of people claiming with equal certainty that he wouldn't trade for Culpepper.

Finfanforever
03-26-2006, 06:36 PM
Well, I guess we'll see where he goes, won't we?

As for what Saban would do... I recall a lot of people claiming with equal certainty that he wouldn't trade for Culpepper.

Apples to apples please ...not apples to PINEAPPLES! :shakeno:

nopony
03-26-2006, 06:37 PM
leinart isn't arrogant at all.

Here in L.A. he sure comes across that way.

He has been pretty coached in his national interviews, but Matt Leinart really seems to like Matt Leinart.

But in a way, I agree with you. His arrogance doesn't strike me at all like the kind of wronged-by-the-world ego that leaf, (and to some extent, Cutler) displayed. I don't think any arrogance Leinart has (or Young) will do anything to hurt them. Heck, may even help.

nopony
03-26-2006, 06:37 PM
Apples to apples please ...not apples to PINEAPPLES! :shakeno:

Um... so I shouldn't compare people being positive they can read Saban's mind with... people being positive they can read Saban's mind?

Yeah, ok.

Finfanforever
03-26-2006, 06:51 PM
Um... so I shouldn't compare people being positive they can read Saban's mind with... people being positive they can read people's mind?

Yeah, ok.

Oh Lord! Let me SPELL IT OUT for you. The Dolphins needed a starting QB. Culpepper and Brees was options. Chances are the top 3 QB's (at the time) were not going to be available. Giving up a #16th pick in the 1st round AND a 3rd rounder to draft a QB that is questionable bout the timetable as to his NFL success after we aquired Culpepper. SEE...NO RELATION OR LOGIC! If you don't get that....I give up! :tantrum: :wink:

nopony
03-26-2006, 08:05 PM
Oh Lord! Let me SPELL IT OUT for you. The Dolphins needed a starting QB. Culpepper and Brees was options. Chances are the top 3 QB's (at the time) were not going to be available. Giving up a #16th pick in the 1st round AND a 3rd rounder to draft a QB that is questionable bout the timetable as to his NFL success after we aquired Culpepper. SEE...NO RELATION OR LOGIC! If you don't get that....I give up! :tantrum: :wink:

Gee, thanks. I totally didn't understand what you were saying. It wasn't that I thought you guaranteeing Saban will or won't do something was silly... of course not, no no no. It wasn't that I thought you claiming to know Saban's mind was a reach... it was just that I didn't understand that when you said "no way in ****" you actually meant "I think Saban won't want to give up any more of this draft on that position." Now I see.

TexPhinPhan
03-26-2006, 10:10 PM
I think Nick is a better judge of how to effectively use his time than you are.


IF VY fell to us doncha think it would be handy to have actually worked him out rather then take some elses word for it? How could Nick properly judge the best course of action if he didn't personally put his staff on it and learn just how much...or how little talent will carry over into the NFL.
Please, Nick just comes to this MB to find out everything he needs to know about Vince. Apparently Vince will be dropping into the second round, maybe into the third, possibly will go undrafted, cannot tie his own shoes and, apparently, was not really the QB for the Horns last year.

Nick is only meeting with Vince because he feels sorry for him. Or possibly to fool all the other HC into believing VY has talent, when everyone knows he doesn't.:wink:

Texphinphan

PS I think you are absolutely right cn66

neuce
03-26-2006, 10:49 PM
I really hope we do not draft Young. I don't think the guy will ever be a quality NFL qb. He would be worth picking in the 3rd round but not a first rounder as teams are realizing finally.

Finfanforever
03-26-2006, 10:51 PM
Please, Nick just comes to this MB to find out everything he needs to know about Vince. Apparently Vince will be dropping into the second round, maybe into the third, possibly will go undrafted, cannot tie his own shoes and, apparently, was not really the QB for the Horns last year.

Nick is only meeting with Vince because he feels sorry for him. Or possibly to fool all the other HC into believing VY has talent, when everyone knows he doesn't.:wink:

Texphinphan

PS I think you are absolutely right cn66

NOW NOW its not THAT bad...:boohoo: Vince will be a good player IN TIME but his stock is dropping for whatever reasons. I see either Al Davis taking a chance on him or even Dennis Green at Ariz. So all is not lost...:wink:

dominizzo
03-27-2006, 05:43 PM
Saban is just making teams worry

MarinoForPres
03-27-2006, 09:38 PM
OUR TAKE ON THE FINS' INTEREST IN UNCLE RICO



Surely, the Miami Dolphins don't expect Texas quarterback Vince Young to be available when they exercise their first-round pick with the sixteenth overall choice. So why bring him in for a personal visit?



In our view, coach Nick Saban wants to ensure that Young is taken before the Fins exercise their pick, which will mean that one of the guys in which the team truly is interested will get pushed farther down. And our guess is that Saban hatched the plan to bring in Young before Young's stock was nudged upward in the wake of last week's pro day workout.



Of course, there's a chance that the Fins will try to trade up in an effort to snag Young. Or maybe they intend to try to trade up and get someone else -- and are trying to create the impression that if they trade up they'll tap Uncle Rico.



Would Saban go to such lengths in support of a smokescreen? Hell, yes.



We've heard on multiple occasions over the past 11 months that Saban put the word out to the organization and beyond that he planned to select receiver Braylon Edwards with the second overall pick in the 2005 draft, all in the hopes of squeezing a pick or two out of the Browns at number three -- or from someone else who wanted to jump in front of Cleveland to snag Edwards. As we've heard it, Saban did an abrupt about-face moments before pulling the trigger, going with running back Ronnie Brown instead.