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FinFan57
03-29-2006, 09:55 AM
Just a short time ago, I would never have even considered taking Santonio Holmes with our first pick, but things have changed drastically. Assuming we sign Arrington and considering this is a deep draft, especiall for DB's (a need position), Holmes could be a strong consideration.

It appears Chad Jackson has moved to the top of the WR's pole and probably Denver traded up to #15 to draft him. That may leave Holmes dropping into our lap at #16. Although Jackson is a better physical specimen, Holmes is certainly no slouch. He is very fast and was extremely productive at Ohio State. I believe he matches up very closely to Chris Chambers with height, weight, speed, etc (which is not a bad thing).

I honestly haven't seen a great deal of film on him, so I would welcome any comments. What I have seen and read is that he has been very productive and should excel at the next level.

I really hope we give Daunte another fast target. Our O-line will no doubt continue improvement, but you can't expect miracles from Houck (this soon anyway). To stretch the field with Chambers and Holmes and have Booker and McMichael filling the middle, while Ronnie free lances would be awfully exciting and very scarey for opposing defenses. It would also take some pressure off of our developing line.

TractorTraylor
03-29-2006, 10:10 AM
Chad Jackson scares me b/c he's such a workout warrior... he's gained so much hype from the combine meanwhile, Holmes has been consistant and I love the fact that he can take it the distance at any given time... the man going unspoken here is Sinorice Moss. Just like his brother he is lightning quick with great hands. I could live with us trading down a few spots to get a few more picks and taking S.Moss in the late first..

Motion
03-29-2006, 10:26 AM
Chad Jackson scares me b/c he's such a workout warrior... he's gained so much hype from the combine meanwhile, Holmes has been consistant and I love the fact that he can take it the distance at any given time... the man going unspoken here is Sinorice Moss. Just like his brother he is lightning quick with great hands. I could live with us trading down a few spots to get a few more picks and taking S.Moss in the late first..

Just because Jackson had a good combine doesn't make him a workout warrior. His on field production was well known and he answered the one major concern, speed, at the combine. As a result he has moved to the front of the WR pack, not that he wasn't up there to begin with, many draft sites had him as a top 3 WR before the combine.

Finfan14
03-29-2006, 12:15 PM
Chad Jacksons numbers in big games last year was horrible.

The guy ran up stats against Vandy and other cream puffs. Coming out of Meyers ridiculous system...it is going to take Chad 2-3 years to get usede to the pro style game.

If you go WR...Santonio Holmes is the much safer pick.

Motion
03-29-2006, 12:31 PM
Chad Jacksons numbers in big games last year was horrible.

The guy ran up stats against Vandy and other cream puffs. Coming out of Meyers ridiculous system...it is going to take Chad 2-3 years to get usede to the pro style game.

If you go WR...Santonio Holmes is the much safer pick.

Save it man, we've been there and done that. It will not take him 3 years to learn new routes, thats ridiculous.

Philter25
03-29-2006, 12:39 PM
...it is going to take Chad 2-3 years to get usede to the pro style game..

We are not talking about QBs here, we are talking about a WR. 1 year AT THE MOST. For QBs, its a 2-3 year evaluation process to learn an entirely new system. A WR who takes the same amount of time to get used to a pro system must be as dumb as a wall.

FinaticalOne
03-29-2006, 12:45 PM
There will be one more BIG factor that will have an effect on the draft. Look for the Eagles and Denver to be big players in trading for Javon Walker or Eric Moulds. This trade will get done before the draft, and that will eliminate one or both of them from the WR carousel in the first round of the draft.

Motion
03-29-2006, 01:24 PM
There will be one more BIG factor that will have an effect on the draft. Look for the Eagles and Denver to be big players in trading for Javon Walker or Eric Moulds. This trade will get done before the draft, and that will eliminate one or both of them from the WR carousel in the first round of the draft.

Good point

Jaj
03-29-2006, 02:40 PM
The reason I take Holmes is he's the better deep ball WR and has played split end and can annoy make defenses respect his pesky abilities. Jackson has the tools of a #1 not really a complement, but it's not hard to make either one work. Both of their values are 15-25 so it's not much of a reach at all.

TractorTraylor
03-29-2006, 03:19 PM
There will be one more BIG factor that will have an effect on the draft. Look for the Eagles and Denver to be big players in trading for Javon Walker or Eric Moulds. This trade will get done before the draft, and that will eliminate one or both of them from the WR carousel in the first round of the draft.

Ive thought about the same thing and it really makes me wonder why Miami isnt pursuing the situation. We could get a top flight talent for a low round pick. And its not like we dont have cap space to take on a decent salary... Mueller and Saban have set us up nicely here and I think they should take advantage..

DBoston80
03-29-2006, 04:13 PM
Just a short time ago, I would never have even considered taking Santonio Holmes with our first pick, but things have changed drastically. Assuming we sign Arrington and considering this is a deep draft, especiall for DB's (a need position), Holmes could be a strong consideration.

It appears Chad Jackson has moved to the top of the WR's pole and probably Denver traded up to #15 to draft him. That may leave Holmes dropping into our lap at #16. Although Jackson is a better physical specimen, Holmes is certainly no slouch. He is very fast and was extremely productive at Ohio State. I believe he matches up very closely to Chris Chambers with height, weight, speed, etc (which is not a bad thing).

I honestly haven't seen a great deal of film on him, so I would welcome any comments. What I have seen and read is that he has been very productive and should excel at the next level.

I really hope we give Daunte another fast target. Our O-line will no doubt continue improvement, but you can't expect miracles from Houck (this soon anyway). To stretch the field with Chambers and Holmes and have Booker and McMichael filling the middle, while Ronnie free lances would be awfully exciting and very scarey for opposing defenses. It would also take some pressure off of our developing line.

Holmes is the complete package at WR..and yes he has been a model of consistency at OSU from day one....

Reminds me of a Javon Walker "type" of WR.

playmaker1
03-29-2006, 08:23 PM
Holmes and Jackson won't be there when the Dolphins pick

Jaj
03-29-2006, 08:28 PM
Holmes and Jackson won't be there when the Dolphins pick

What? How the hell do you know that?:rolleyes2

I mean comon I can understand saying Huff and Bunkley won't be there, but Jackson and Holmes. Give it a break...

The chance of that happening is very slim. Atleast one will be there...

dan the fin
03-29-2006, 09:36 PM
PROJECTION:

Philadelphia Eagles
Round 1, Pick 14
Bob Leverone/TSN
Overall grade: 8.0
Position rank: 1
225lb bench: 19
NFL comparison:
Rod Smith, Broncos


CHAD JACKSON MEASURABLES
Height: 6-0 Weight: 213
40-yard dash: 4.32 10-yard dash: 1.55
20-yard shuttle: 3.97 60-yard shuttle: 11.19
Broad jump: 10-2 225-lb. bench:
3-cone drill: 6.73 Vertical jump: 38
Wonderlic: 20-yard dash: 2.52

KEY » * Recently updated Position grade increased Position grade decreased
Chad Jackson
WR, Florida

War Room analysis
Hands: Shows strong hands and excellent concentration to look the ball into his hands. Is willing to go over the middle and make tough catches in traffic. Grade: 8.1.

Patterns: Didn't run many deep routes at Florida, but has the speed to get behind NFL cornerbacks. Runs precise routes, and shows a good burst in and out of cuts. Drops weight and settles feet well on hitch and comeback routes. Grade: 8.0.

Run after catch: Turns short passes into big gains. Shows a good burst after the catch, and is a strong runner. Is at his best on underneath routes -- using his size, strength and quickness to get open and then turning on his speed to get upfield. Grade: 8.2.

Release: Shows above-average quickness and a powerful burst off the line. Has the size and strength to beat jams. Grade: 7.9.

Blocking: Has the physical tools to be an effective downfield blocker, but must improve technique and become more aggressive. Grade: 7.8.

Bottom line: Jackson has good size and deceptive speed. He is a polished receiver who has a lot of experience against elite competition. He is a borderline first-round prospect. If he runs in the 4.40-second range in pre-draft workouts, as he claims he will, he will shoot up draft boards much like the Packers' Javon Walker did in '02.

dan the fin
03-29-2006, 09:37 PM
PROJECTION:

Dallas Cowboys
Round 1, Pick 18
Jay Drowns/TSN
Overall grade: 8.1
Position rank: 2
225lb bench: 18
NFL comparison:
Lee Evans, Bills


SANTONIO HOLMES MEASURABLES
Height: 5-10 Weight: 179
40-yard dash: 4.34 10-yard dash:
20-yard shuttle: 4.26 60-yard shuttle:
Broad jump: 10-6 225-lb. bench:
3-cone drill: 6.83 Vertical jump: 38
Wonderlic: 20-yard dash:

KEY » * Recently updated Position grade increased Position grade decreased
Santonio Holmes
WR, Ohio State

War Room analysis
Hands: Has good, soft hands. Must improve on catching intermediate passes. Catches passes at full speed and over his head. Makes tough catches in traffic. Lets too many balls get to his body. Grade: 8.0.

Patterns: Is an accomplished route-runner. Closes the cushion quickly, separates well. Shows terrific footwork and lower-body strength to make crisp cuts. Stops and starts quickly. Shows a great burst. Grade: 8.3.

Run after catch: Is explosive. Gets upfield immediately after the catch. Is a threat to score on every touch. Always seems to make first defender miss. Shows a second gear in the open field. Shows good vision to use blockers well. Grade: 8.3.

Release: Has a small frame. Is adept at sidestepping jams but must learn to use hands better to shed defenders. Shows great initial quickness. Won't be able to outrun NFL cornerbacks to the outside. Must become more patient. Grade: 7.9.

Blocking: Is competitive and willing to work but is limited by his size. Is stronger than he appears but has a short reach. Must use cut blocks to be effective. Must take better angles to defenders. Won't be effective cracking back against linebackers. Grade: 7.8.

Bottom line: Holmes is a constant home run threat. Although he didn't put up huge numbers in Ohio State's conservative offense, Holmes has the potential to be an NFL star. His size is sufficient, his speed is explosive and his ability is off the charts. He will need time to develop but immediately will contribute in the return game and as a No. 2 or slot receiver. He should be the first wide receiver selected.

Mike13
03-30-2006, 12:01 AM
Santonio remkind me of Santana Moss

TractorTraylor
03-30-2006, 12:16 AM
Santonio remkind me of Santana Moss

For some reason, Sinorice Moss reminds me of Santana Moss... he's my top choice for a WR this year...


whats everyones opinion on him?

motioncityhifi
03-30-2006, 12:59 AM
if it came down to it id rather have holmes over moss. i think holmes is just more polished than moss.

playmaker1
03-30-2006, 01:10 AM
What? How the hell do you know that?:rolleyes2

I mean comon I can understand saying Huff and Bunkley won't be there, but Jackson and Holmes. Give it a break...

The chance of that happening is very slim. Atleast one will be there...

I know moulds and walker will be big moves, but I think the eagles and denver will both be looking for playmakers. Just an opinion. Both of those teams could really use more than one

playmaker1
03-30-2006, 01:11 AM
For some reason, Sinorice Moss reminds me of Santana Moss... he's my top choice for a WR this year...


whats everyones opinion on him?

they are brothers! :D

TractorTraylor
03-30-2006, 08:01 AM
Lol, I know... using a little bit o' sarcasm.. next time Ill put it in some ( ) to clarify

Canadi-Phin
03-30-2006, 09:06 AM
Playmaker, your right they both could go Receiver. If that happens it would be a shame we didn't get one of them but would also drop some other really good players into our lap. All the players ranked ahead of them on most draft boards are players that we all would like to draft. I would be very hapy with both being taken. I think it depends on Philly. If the Eagles take a receiver then Denver will have to because they won't feel like the receiver will be there at 22. If the eagles don't take one, they may feel there is a better chance that only one of them will go until they pick again. I can't wait for the Draft, all this talk causes my to go crazy and I never can get work done. Oh well:dolphins:

TimeGap
03-30-2006, 12:31 PM
I don't trust any Wr's from Florida!!!

TimeGap
03-30-2006, 12:33 PM
I hope the Broncos use their two picks and trade up.

Jaj
03-30-2006, 12:36 PM
I don't trust any Wr's from Florida!!!

Just in case you haven't noticed it's not Spurrier that coaches there and Ron Zook recruited Jackson.

blakeypremer
03-30-2006, 10:21 PM
I would Take Sinorice over Holmes, because Sinorice would be that perfect #3 we need. He definitely is the fastest receiver, I dont care if chad ran a faster 40 time watch the tape and Sinorice plays faster in pads. Hes exactly in the build of his brother, the difference being Santana was able to be a number 1 guy at Miami and in the NFL and I dont see Sinorice ever taking that role. But we have chambers and Sinorice is still as fast if not faster than his brother. He has that deep speed, can stretch the seam from the slot position way better than Homes, and would be a great pick

playmaker1
03-31-2006, 12:05 AM
Playmaker, your right they both could go Receiver. If that happens it would be a shame we didn't get one of them but would also drop some other really good players into our lap. All the players ranked ahead of them on most draft boards are players that we all would like to draft. I would be very hapy with both being taken. I think it depends on Philly. If the Eagles take a receiver then Denver will have to because they won't feel like the receiver will be there at 22. If the eagles don't take one, they may feel there is a better chance that only one of them will go until they pick again. I can't wait for the Draft, all this talk causes my to go crazy and I never can get work done. Oh well:dolphins:

I agree totally. Well put Canadi-phin! :D

playmaker1
03-31-2006, 12:08 AM
I would Take Sinorice over Holmes, because Sinorice would be that perfect #3 we need. He definitely is the fastest receiver, I dont care if chad ran a faster 40 time watch the tape and Sinorice plays faster in pads. Hes exactly in the build of his brother, the difference being Santana was able to be a number 1 guy at Miami and in the NFL and I dont see Sinorice ever taking that role. But we have chambers and Sinorice is still as fast if not faster than his brother. He has that deep speed, can stretch the seam from the slot position way better than Homes, and would be a great pick

I dont think we need a #3 WR. We could use a solid #2 guy, and let Booker be three. Nothing against him. I think he will have a big year with DC throwing to him, but if we did draft a WR in the first, it would be to line up opposite of Chambers

Motion
03-31-2006, 10:01 AM
I would Take Sinorice over Holmes, because Sinorice would be that perfect #3 we need. He definitely is the fastest receiver, I dont care if chad ran a faster 40 time watch the tape and Sinorice plays faster in pads. Hes exactly in the build of his brother, the difference being Santana was able to be a number 1 guy at Miami and in the NFL and I dont see Sinorice ever taking that role. But we have chambers and Sinorice is still as fast if not faster than his brother. He has that deep speed, can stretch the seam from the slot position way better than Homes, and would be a great pick

You don't take a WR in the 1st round to be your #3! :shakeno: