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iceblizzard69
03-07-2003, 05:46 PM
I hear everyone making fun of France now. Of course the reason why we do this isn't really because they aren't in the war. Americans have been looking for good reasons for a while to make fun of France, and now we have a legit reason to do so. However, I don't think France is the best country to make fun of.

It is:





GERMANY!

I have been to Germany (went 2 years ago from this month) and I had a great time. The people were nice, and the country was nice. I really enjoyed myself. However, Germany is a lot worse then France in this war. Chancellor Shroeder won his election partly because of his anti-American stance. This guy also dissed our US Soccer team at the World Cup, saying that Germany will easily beat us (they won, but we gave them a tough fight). I really want to go back to Germany for WC 2006. However, if you compare the leaders of these two nations (Chirac and Shroeder), Shroeder is clearly the guy we should hate more. Chirac is just like an anti-war protester in a way. Chirac is NOT anti-American. He has lived here, worked here, traveled here. He doesn't hate America, he just disagrees with the war. I do support this war, but I think it is understandable when a guy doesn't want war. However, the German leader is clearly anti-American and is less likely to ever get on our side then France.

PhinPhan1227
03-07-2003, 06:05 PM
Chirac doesn't disagree with the war. Chirac has two motives for his stance in my opinion.

#1-France has huge economic ties to Iraq which he is trying to salvage

#2-By opposing the US he strengthens his pseudo-leadership of the EU, and the EU's influence in world politics. Take those two elements away, and the French leader probably wouldn't give a damn about the war with Iraq.

iceblizzard69
03-07-2003, 06:36 PM
Chirac's opinion is probably affected by his economic ties to Iraq, but I think public opinion has a huge role. The French people are strongly against it, and he is their leader and represents them, so he wants to make them happy. I think that has a big effect. However, of all of the leaders against the war, I hate Chirac the least. He was very supportive of the war on terror and when the war starts, I think his stance may change.

PhinPhan1227
03-07-2003, 06:40 PM
Perhaps, but there's still the whole fact of him being French!..:)

WharfRat
03-07-2003, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by iceblizzard69
I hear everyone making fun of France now. Of course the reason why we do this isn't really because they aren't in the war. Americans have been looking for good reasons for a while to make fun of France, and now we have a legit reason to do so. However, I don't think France is the best country to make fun of.

It is:





GERMANY!

I have been to Germany (went 2 years ago from this month) and I had a great time. The people were nice, and the country was nice. I really enjoyed myself. However, Germany is a lot worse then France in this war. Chancellor Shroeder won his election partly because of his anti-American stance. This guy also dissed our US Soccer team at the World Cup, saying that Germany will easily beat us (they won, but we gave them a tough fight). I really want to go back to Germany for WC 2006. However, if you compare the leaders of these two nations (Chirac and Shroeder), Shroeder is clearly the guy we should hate more. Chirac is just like an anti-war protester in a way. Chirac is NOT anti-American. He has lived here, worked here, traveled here. He doesn't hate America, he just disagrees with the war. I do support this war, but I think it is understandable when a guy doesn't want war. However, the German leader is clearly anti-American and is less likely to ever get on our side then France.

Ice...

I think you may have a slight flaw in your reasoning.
My brother has lived and worked in Munich at the American Consulate, for about 30 years. He has been married to a German national for over 20. One of the main reasons Germany is so steadfast against a war, is not the "anti-Americanism" of Schroeder.. but rather the Pro- EUism. Schroeder won on a platform that was only anti-american, in the sense that he envisions a Germany as one of the leaders of a unified Europe... one that will separate itself from the US, both economically and strategically. Schroeder's followers in Germany not only want that separation, they also want out of NATO. While on the surface it may seem as though it's a dislike of America... it's actually more of a want to become more of a world power... mostly economically...

baccarat
03-08-2003, 01:57 PM
"This week European scientists will be able to view the largest meteor shower in history. Upon hearing this, the French asked, 'What's a shower?' "


The French and Germans have made and continue to make billions of dollars while Saddam Hussein creates his own reign of terror. They gave Hussein arm deals and they're fair-weather allies. It's easy to see that France and Germany care more about money and Saddam's friendship than us. Chirac and Shroeder are both very anti-American. They're afraid that we'll go in and find out all of their connections with Saddam's atrocites. Do you think that Shroeder or Chirac lost any sleep over Sep. 11th? Ofcourse not, because they benefit whenever bad things happen to America.

Let's not forget how France handled Zacharias Moussaoui, or how Germany believes that 15 years is a just sentence for killing thousands of Americans(Mounir el Motassadeq). I say forget our unloyal allies and support our real allies.(Britain, Spain, Australia, Italy, Portugal, etc.)