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romio
04-09-2006, 11:45 PM
they compare him to who else cullpepper only qb invite to draft tryouts , hummm?
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-dolphinsnotes09apr09,0,2556164.story?coll=sfla-sports-front

postermaster
04-09-2006, 11:47 PM
they compare him to who else cullpepper only qb invite to draft tryouts , hummm?
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-dolphinsnotes09apr09,0,2556164.story?coll=sfla-sports-front

He is a great QB, I would take him over Cutler and Young...

romio
04-09-2006, 11:48 PM
i heard he athletic also, one draft guide has him as a super sleeper? interesting.

AirMarino83
04-09-2006, 11:50 PM
He is a great QB, I would take him over Cutler and Young...
i dont know about that... but, i would not mind having him drafted by us. i bet he does have a lot of upside.

icephinfan
04-09-2006, 11:51 PM
I like Omar Jacobs, I hope we get him in the 3rd round!

PALMA
04-09-2006, 11:52 PM
I remember that early in his career that he ran a more pro-style passing attack. The offense switched and knocks on him born. He would be a perfect QB to draft and develop and well worth a shot. Someone at least will give Omar a chance, I hope it's us.

postermaster
04-09-2006, 11:55 PM
I like Omar Jacobs, I hope we get him in the 3rd round!

I wouldnt be mad if we get him in the first round, I think that we have improved every position and the missing piece could be a backup QB and the O-linemen, what else could we get better than him???

icephinfan
04-09-2006, 11:58 PM
I wouldnt be mad if we get him in the first round, I think that we have improved every position and the missing piece could be a backup QB and the O-linemen, what else could we get better than him???

1st round we take a DB or LB "if no Lavar"
C-Pep can groom him, he would be a 3rd round steal!
He has a big upside.

saves
04-10-2006, 12:00 AM
I remember that early in his career that he ran a more pro-style passing attack. The offense switched and knocks on him born. He would be a perfect QB to draft and develop and well worth a shot. Someone at least will give Omar a chance, I hope it's us.

Nah...the offense was pretty much the same the whole time. It was passer friendly to say the least.

Coral Reefer
04-10-2006, 12:04 AM
Omar Jacobs to me is another Timmy Chang with a little more talent but nothing that will equal success in the NFL.

Product of a Pass happy and simple system in a weak league.

The guy will have major problems in the NFL.
Long term project with good bust potential IMO.

With Culpepper here now and limited draft picks I think we'll take a shot at a developmental QB with one of the 7th round picks. Other positions will be filled with our 1st and 3rd round picks.

Someone mentioned taking Jacobs with our first.... Typical stuff you see in here. :shakeno:

postermaster
04-10-2006, 12:06 AM
1st round we take a DB or LB "if no Lavar"
C-Pep can groom him, he would be a 3rd round steal!
He has a big upside.

With Allen, Poole, Daniels, Hill, Goodman and Cooper it will be unlikely that we get a first round DB pick, we have a very improved secondary, but with Saban's secondary highest speciality I wouldn't be impressed if we get one...

LB, I don't think so, we have many talented of them and if LaVar singns, we might be the most explosive team in that depth...

Our bigest missing piece is the backup QB, the one that might take Daunte's job for the first games, and as we all know its a very important position...

So Jacobs would be my option.

icephinfan
04-10-2006, 12:09 AM
With Allen, Poole, Daniels, Hill, Goodman and Cooper it will be unlikely that we get a first round DB pick, we have a very improved secondary, but with Saban's secondary highest speciality I wouldn't be impressed if we get one...

LB, I don't think so, we have many talented of them and if LaVar singns, we might be the most explosive team in that depth...

Our bigest missing piece is the backup QB, the one that might take Daunte's job the first games, and as we all know its a very important position...

So Jacobs would be my option.

Yeah, we draft Omar just not the 1st pick, we could draft a Safety, Schulters is not coming back, if we don't sign Lavar then yes draft a LB, we need a strong LB to join Zach and Channing.

Coral Reefer
04-10-2006, 12:11 AM
With Allen, Poole, Daniels, Hill, Goodman and Cooper it will be unlikely that we get a first round DB pick, we have a very improved secondary, but with Saban's secondary highest speciality I wouldn't be impressed if we get one...

LB, I don't think so, we have many talented of them and if LaVar singns, we might be the most explosive team in that depth...

Our bigest missing piece is the backup QB, the one that might take Daunte's job for the first games, and as we all know its a very important position...

So Jacobs would be my option.

If you are a team expecting to make a run at the playoffs, you don't count on a rookie to be your backup.
That is a pretty simple concept.

Rookies have a major learning curve when they get to the NFL and playing one puts a team at a huge disadvantage.
If your a rebuilding team it's fine but not for a team like Miami.

saves
04-10-2006, 12:23 AM
If you are a team expecting to make a run at the playoffs, you don't count on a rookie to be your backup.
That is a pretty simple concept.

Rookies have a major learning curve when they get to the NFL and playing one puts a team at a huge disadvantage.
If your a rebuilding team it's fine but not for a team like Miami.

Its not any worse then going out and getting a quarterback who has already proven he can't hack it in the NFL.

postermaster
04-10-2006, 12:23 AM
If you are a team expecting to make a run at the playoffs, you don't count on a rookie to be your backup.
That is a pretty simple concept.

Rookies have a major learning curve when they get to the NFL and playing one puts a team at a huge disadvantage.
If your a rebuilding team it's fine but not for a team like Miami.

You are right, I forgot that point of view..., but who would you draft first then?

postermaster
04-10-2006, 12:25 AM
Its not any worse then going out and getting a quarterback who has already proven he can't hack it in the NFL.

He is also right, of course talking about Harrington, Maddox, Collins etc...

postermaster
04-10-2006, 12:26 AM
So, who would be your first pick???

Tureo
04-10-2006, 12:27 AM
Omar Jacobs to me is another Timmy Chang with a little more talent but nothing that will equal success in the NFL.

Product of a Pass happy and simple system in a weak league.

The guy will have major problems in the NFL.
Long term project with good bust potential IMO.

With Culpepper here now and limited draft picks I think we'll take a shot at a developmental QB with one of the 7th round picks. Other positions will be filled with our 1st and 3rd round picks.

Someone mentioned taking Jacobs with our first.... Typical stuff you see in here. :shakeno:

Have you watched him play. Did you see all of that talent he was surrounded by last year. Do you see how many guys from Bowling Green are going in the first round in this years draft. I have watched this guy and he cannot be just a product of a pass happy offense when he was surrounded by zero talent. He was one of the most accurate Qbs in college football over the past two years. This guy can be developed

icephinfan
04-10-2006, 12:32 AM
So, who would be your first pick???

CB Jimmy Williams or WR Santonio Holmes or WR Sinorice Moss

postermaster
04-10-2006, 12:37 AM
Have you watched him play. Did you see all of that talent he was surrounded by last year. Do you see how many guys from Bowling Green are going in the first round in this years draft. I have watched this guy and he cannot be just a product of a pass happy offense when he was surrounded by zero talent. He was one of the most accurate Qbs in college football over the past two years. This guy can be developed

Im in agreement with you, just watch his stats, more than 40 TD's on a single season?, thats TALENT!!!

postermaster
04-10-2006, 12:38 AM
CB Jimmy Williams or WR Santonio Holmes or WR Sinorice Moss
or WR Chad Jackson or QB Omar Jacobs...

icephinfan
04-10-2006, 12:40 AM
or WR Chad Jackson or QB Omar Jacobs...

Why do you want Omar in the first, he will be there in the 3rd.
Jackson is going to Denver, so either a CB,LB, or WR.
I like Santonio Holmes.

Phinz4Life
04-10-2006, 01:00 AM
I share the opinion with several draftniks on this site about Omar Jacobs (QB - Bowling Green).

He has absolutely everything physically you look for in a quarterback - arm strength, accuracy, height/weight, athleticism, speed (can run if necessary).

Note: Do not confuse Omar for a scramble-first QB.

His character is near flawless, for anyone who gets ESPN magazine and read the article about how he paints propane tanks at 10 bucks a pop (or some kind of gas product) because its humbling, and how he doesn't want to go crazy with his money when he gets into the NFL - you'll agree with me.

In his sophomore year at Bowling Green he put up absolutely ridiculous stats:

41 TD 4 INT 67% Comp. 4,000 yards.

His junior year was most definately a disapointment when you consider how amazing he was the previous year. During the last collegiate season he threw for 26 touchdowns and 7 interceptions. Some of these touchdowns came when Bowling Green was out of the game ( i.e., against Boise State).

There is just something about Omar that isn't right. The huge drop-off is certainly a reason to be concerned, but by no means can you completely forget about what he did during his sophomore campaign.

Jacobs is similiar to the situation with Jay Cutler in that they both play for small schools with limited talent compared to larger programs. I'm not comparing these two in any other sense besides the fact both did not have a very good supporting cast, although Jacobs did play with two solid receivers - Steve Sanders and Charles Sharon.

Another knock on Omar is is awkward throwing motion, which is a flag being held on Texas QB Vince Young. It could be corrected, but with his size it might not present a huge problem.

Most scouts note that Jacobs played in a spread-offense and a lot of his stats are padded because of that, which is the case in a lot of college quarterbacks.

In conclusion - and I'll say now I'm no draft expert or talent evaluator, but Jacobs is someone I have watched and can say I have a pretty fair view on. Based on raw talent and abilities Omar Jacobs is a first round quarterback, but when you factor in all the knocks, he might be picked up in the 2nd but I would say early 3rd depending on who needs a quarterback.

But who knows? Stranger things can happen. Omar might be picked earlier, or later, it's one of the toughest calls of the draft.

SEAFinFan
04-10-2006, 01:00 AM
I'd like Jacobs, but in the 3rd or 4th round, can't waste a 1st round pick on a QB when we already have a franchise QB especially when we have other needs.

icephinfan
04-10-2006, 01:10 AM
I'd like Jacobs, but in the 3rd or 4th round, can't waste a 1st round pick on a QB when we already have a franchise QB especially when we have other needs.

Yeah, EXACTLY...if we sign Lavar this will give us an option to trade for more picks or pick the best CB or WR.

nopony
04-10-2006, 01:15 AM
Omar is Vince Young light. That's not a bad thing when you figure how much lower in the draft he'll go.

16 is too early and the 3rd round is too late. I have to think that if we are serious about drafting him that a trade down or up is in the works.

I agree with the guy who mentioned his character.... he seems to be a real class act.

I like him and I think he has a chance to develop into something... but he is NOT better than Young or Cutler. Not at all.

And for the life of me I can't think of a single reason someone would like Jacobs and not like Young.

Phinz4Life
04-10-2006, 01:20 AM
Omar is Vince Young light. That's not a bad thing when you figure how much lower in the draft he'll go.

16 is too early and the 3rd round is too late. I have to think that if we are serious about drafting him that a trade down or up is in the works.

I agree with the guy who mentioned his character.... he seems to be a real class act.

I like him and I think he has a chance to develop into something... but he is NOT better than Young or Cutler. Not at all.


And for the life of me I can't think of a single reason someone would like Jacobs and not like Young.

I wouldn't go that far in saying - it's so hard to predict how a player will perform at the next level. Cutler has shot up the draft boards quickly, and I won't let myself be sold like I thought I was on Rodgers early last year.

As far as value goes, Jacobs in the 2nd-3rd could turn out much better than Cutler/Young in the top 3-5 picks.

As far as why someone would like Jacobs and not Young is somewhat simple. As much of a big time college player Young was, he accomplished most of that with his feet. Jacobs, on the other hand, relied on his arm strength and accuracy which is MUCH better than that of Youngs. It's difficult to compare when Young was on Texas and Jacobs was on Bowling Green, two different scenarios.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-10-2006, 01:22 AM
And for the life of me I can't think of a single reason someone would like Jacobs and not like Young.
because they're completely different quarterbacks?

nopony
04-10-2006, 01:34 AM
I wouldn't go that far in saying - it's so hard to predict how a player will perform at the next level. Cutler has shot up the draft boards quickly, and I won't let myself be sold like I thought I was on Rodgers early last year.

As far as value goes, Jacobs in the 2nd-3rd could turn out much better than Cutler/Young in the top 3-5 picks.

As far as why someone would like Jacobs and not Young is somewhat simple. As much of a big time college player Young was, he accomplished most of that with his feet. Jacobs, on the other hand, relied on his arm strength and accuracy which is MUCH better than that of Youngs. It's difficult to compare when Young was on Texas and Jacobs was on Bowling Green, two different scenarios.

1. Of course... the worst QB in the draft could turn out better than Leinart. Reggie Bush could break his leg. We have to evaluate on what we know NOW. And right now we know Jacobs isn't as good a prospect as Young.

2. Why on earth do people think Young "accomplished most of that with his feet"??? He was one of the highest rated PASSERS in the country - higher than Leinart. Higher than Cutler. Higher than Jacobs.

Youngs passing stats blow Jacobs away. He passed for 500 more yards against much better competition. He completed 5% more of his passes for over a yard better per attempt.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-10-2006, 01:37 AM
young is a runner first, passer second.

nopony
04-10-2006, 01:40 AM
because they're completely different quarterbacks?

Well, sure. They live in different places, they play for different teams, they have different girlfriends.

Of course there are differences between the two, but they have far more in common than of the top picks have.

They have many of the same things to work on, similiar strengths and weaknesses. they both played in an all-shotgun offense that concerns scouts. They both have funky deliveries and mechanics that need to be corrected. They both are considered "dual threats". They are within one inch and five pounds of each other. Young has a 4.50 40 time, Jacobs has a 4.55 forty time... etc.

nopony
04-10-2006, 01:42 AM
young is a runner first, passer second.

Saying it doesn't make it true.

He threw for 3000 yards. Rushed for 1000.

Just for a little perspective:

Young threw for 50 fewer yards than Cutler... on ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY fewer attempts.

man, people have really warped ideas about what Young is. It's like they decided a long time ago that he was Vick and no amount of evidence is going to make them realize otherwise.

outtawack311
04-10-2006, 02:15 AM
Omar Jacobs to me is another Timmy Chang with a little more talent but nothing that will equal success in the NFL.

Product of a Pass happy and simple system in a weak league.

The guy will have major problems in the NFL.
Long term project with good bust potential IMO.

With Culpepper here now and limited draft picks I think we'll take a shot at a developmental QB with one of the 7th round picks. Other positions will be filled with our 1st and 3rd round picks.

Someone mentioned taking Jacobs with our first.... Typical stuff you see in here. :shakeno:

Just to let you know, Culpepper came from one of those "Pass happy and simple system in a weak league". Actually, he was at an independant school that had a pass happy O that inflated his numbers. You can't always say the system was pass happy, he sucks.

HysterikiLL
04-10-2006, 06:51 AM
I have a feeling Jacobs will slip. I don't think teams with QB needs will swipe him, and I see the Fins, along with the Browns, Lions, Raiders, Chiefs all giving this guy a look. I think we could get him in the 4th (how early is our 4th rounder?)

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-10-2006, 08:48 AM
Saying it doesn't make it true.

He threw for 3000 yards. Rushed for 1000.

Just for a little perspective:

Young threw for 50 fewer yards than Cutler... on ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY fewer attempts.

man, people have really warped ideas about what Young is. It's like they decided a long time ago that he was Vick and no amount of evidence is going to make them realize otherwise.
just using stats doesn't make it true. watching him play over his career makes it true. he looks to run when the first read isn't there. that's a run-first quarterback. and jacobs isn't a dual threat. you're way off.

Flyer22
04-10-2006, 11:55 AM
Jacobs is in no way a scrambling quarterback. When you hear about his mobility, it's the ability to move around in the pocket a la Ben Roethlisberger, not the ability to take off downfield for a 20-yard gain.

gunnakillbrady
04-10-2006, 11:58 AM
He is a great QB, I would take him over Cutler and Young...

whoa whoa whoa maybe Young but I think Cutler's the # 1 QB in the draft anyone see his pro day outside....in windy conditions and still threw better then Young who was in a dome! And with Cutler's stats u still have to consider the fact who he played fro VANDY that's not exactly loaded with talent

Mr.305
04-10-2006, 12:09 PM
whoa whoa whoa maybe Young but I think Cutler's the # 1 QB in the draft anyone see his pro day outside....in windy conditions and still threw better then Young who was in a dome! And with Cutler's stats u still have to consider the fact who he played fro VANDY that's not exactly loaded with talent:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

i would say that he is better then Cutler, but not even close to Young..Cutler played at Vandy...not a load of talent...which is why he looks like a good QB.. he had ZERO talent against him....Omar will be better then Cutler.

:cooldude:

gunnakillbrady
04-10-2006, 12:15 PM
:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

i would say that he is better then Cutler, but not even close to Young..Cutler played at Vandy...not a load of talent...which is why he looks like a good QB.. he had ZERO talent against him....Omar will be better then Cutler.

:cooldude:

He has to be good QB to have been that succesful with that little talent around him there are alot or quality Qb's in this draft but in my opinion with the talent surrounding all the QB's Cutler had the least and yet had an amazing statistical collegiate career Jacobs is great too but I believe Cutler has a better arm then Leinart and better accuracy than Young

Motion
04-10-2006, 12:49 PM
He is a great QB, I would take him over Cutler and Young...


I wouldnt be mad if we get him in the first round, I think that we have improved every position and the missing piece could be a backup QB and the O-linemen, what else could we get better than him???



LB, I don't think so, we have many talented of them and if LaVar singns, we might be the most explosive team in that depth...

Our bigest missing piece is the backup QB, the one that might take Daunte's job for the first games, and as we all know its a very important position...

So Jacobs would be my option.

:eek: Wow, thats a very.................interesting perspective on things.

You would honestly be okay starting the season on the road against the defending champs with a rookie QB?

gunnakillbrady
04-10-2006, 01:01 PM
:eek: Wow, thats a very.................interesting perspective on things.

You would honestly be okay starting the season on the road against the defending champs with a rookie QB?

Agreed, we need a veteran back up (Not Harrington either)

Flyer22
04-10-2006, 01:03 PM
i would say that he is better then Cutler, but not even close to Young..Cutler played at Vandy...not a load of talent...which is why he looks like a good QB.. he had ZERO talent against him What do you mean by zero talent against him? It sounds like you mean zero talent in the SEC competing against him, which is completely wrong. If you mean zero talent on his team to overshadow him, then it should be worded differently (players on the same team aren't "against" each other for national publicity)

Motion
04-10-2006, 01:16 PM
:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

i would say that he is better then Cutler, but not even close to Young..Cutler played at Vandy...not a load of talent...which is why he looks like a good QB.. he had ZERO talent against him....

:cooldude:

:shakeno: What a absolutely ridiculous statement to make. Couldn't be more wrong. The SEC is the toughest conference in football. Thats the 2nd baseless post I've read of yours this week.

COMEBACKRICKY
04-10-2006, 01:43 PM
all i know about omar jacobs is that he is an impact player in ncaa football, but ive watched most of vince youngs games bieng that i live close to austin, and i belive that this guy is the real deal. Its hard to say that his a "run first qb" because he just does what the other team is giving him. ive seen him sit in the pocket the whole game and other games he runs free so thats the end of that, but you guys are confusing the heck out of me.... if he runs a 4.55 that is very mobile for a qb, while others say he just moves in the pocket well. so ugh... which one is it? Im still not sold on taking a qb with our first rounder but i do belive we need to adress it in our mid rounders.

Motion
04-10-2006, 02:18 PM
all i know about omar jacobs is that he is an impact player in ncaa football, but ive watched most of vince youngs games bieng that i live close to austin, and i belive that this guy is the real deal. Its hard to say that his a "run first qb" because he just does what the other team is giving him. ive seen him sit in the pocket the whole game and other games he runs free so thats the end of that, but you guys are confusing the heck out of me.... if he runs a 4.55 that is very mobile for a qb, while others say he just moves in the pocket well. so ugh... which one is it? Im still not sold on taking a qb with our first rounder but i do belive we need to adress it in our mid rounders.

:lol:


Sounds like you know alittle bit more than that.

nopony
04-10-2006, 02:34 PM
just using stats doesn't make it true. watching him play over his career makes it true. he looks to run when the first read isn't there. that's a run-first quarterback. and jacobs isn't a dual threat. you're way off.

:shakeno:

Ok... I am going to take your personal perspective on things rather than using actual facts and the opinions of people who do this for a living.

You can disparage stats all you want, and there are gaps that we don't have the right stats for yet... but they don't lie. And run-first, one-read QBs don't throw for 3000 yards.

At some point people are going to have to pick one way to deride Young... is he bad because he was in a "pass-happy offense" or is he bad because he "ran first".

Trick question. The answer is "neither". People have preconcieved notions of him and mold what they see to fit their opinion, rather than the other way around.



As to Jacobs not being a dual threat... almost all scouts agree that he is a dual threat... that does not mean he was a scrambling qb... he wasn't. It means he runs a 4.55 forty and has the talent to be a threat. Every scouting report I have read on him says about the same thing.

nopony
04-10-2006, 02:42 PM
all i know about omar jacobs is that he is an impact player in ncaa football, but ive watched most of vince youngs games bieng that i live close to austin, and i belive that this guy is the real deal. Its hard to say that his a "run first qb" because he just does what the other team is giving him. ive seen him sit in the pocket the whole game and other games he runs free so thats the end of that, but you guys are confusing the heck out of me.... if he runs a 4.55 that is very mobile for a qb, while others say he just moves in the pocket well. so ugh... which one is it? Im still not sold on taking a qb with our first rounder but i do belive we need to adress it in our mid rounders.

The confusion comes from some peopel pointing out that he didn't run in college and me pointing out that he CAN run and that scouts consider him a dual threat whether he used that weapon much in college or not.

Here's a snip formt he epsn insider analysis on Jacobs:

"He's an excellent athlete. Has quick feet and can get set quickly. Shows a good pocket presence and buys a lot of second-chance opportunities with his athleticism. He is a threat to take off and run. Has above average speed and some elusiveness to make defenders miss in space. A confident player and aggressive competitor."

Which is all I am trying to say. He did not run like Young in college, but he has the tools to scare people with his legs as well as his arm.

And I agree with you about Young. I think a lot of people are going to be eating some serious crow about him someday. I mean, imagine if Vick could actual throw the football well?

People have started to think that being able to run as a qb is a bad thing. Which is ridiculous. Being ONLY able to run is a bad thing. But being able to do both well is nothing but good.

Also, the number of people that kept saying Young was going to fall to us or past us is hilarious. Read the posts a few weeks ago - some crazy statements.

Young won't get past the seventh pick and Jacobs will probably go in the high second.

Tureo
04-10-2006, 04:40 PM
Don't be too frightened but Jacobs reminds me of Aaron Brooks except this guy's head is in the game not his....Aaron Brooks makes so many mistakes but he has great size, is mobile, and has a great arm. Jacobs is extremely accurate. A passing system may produce alot of yards and completions but they can't make a Qb more accurate with his throws

nopony
04-10-2006, 05:16 PM
Don't be too frightened but Jacobs reminds me of Aaron Brooks except this guy's head is in the game not his....Aaron Brooks makes so many mistakes but he has great size, is mobile, and has a great arm. Jacobs is extremely accurate. A passing system may produce alot of yards and completions but they can't make a Qb more accurate with his throws

Aaron Brooks is the Sporting News' comparison, too. Not that he couldn't be better than Brooks, I think he could. But there are a lot of similiarities.

saves
04-10-2006, 05:22 PM
As to Jacobs not being a dual threat... almost all scouts agree that he is a dual threat... that does not mean he was a scrambling qb... he wasn't. It means he runs a 4.55 forty and has the talent to be a threat. Every scouting report I have read on him says about the same thing.

How about this....he runs a 4.7 40 and isn't really a dual threat QB at all. You can give me any scouting report you want because they are wrong. He is nothing at all like Vince Young either, he is more like Big Ben in a comparison of speed. Trying to argue about a prospect you have obviously never seen is a horrible decision, don't you think?

nopony
04-10-2006, 05:31 PM
How about this....he runs a 4.7 40 and isn't really a dual threat QB at all. You can give me any scouting report you want because they are wrong. He is nothing at all like Vince Young either. He is a pocker passer.

Alrighty... yeah, I think I'll disregard every expert in the field and go with a dude from a message board's opinion.

:shakeno:


He's also run a 4.88 forty. And a 4.55 forty. Which is best representitive? Who knows? But he's capable of a 4.55 forty.

Phins28
04-10-2006, 06:02 PM
He is a great QB, I would take him over Cutler and Young...
:sidelol::shakeno:

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-10-2006, 06:54 PM
:shakeno:

Ok... I am going to take your personal perspective on things rather than using actual facts and the opinions of people who do this for a living.

You can disparage stats all you want, and there are gaps that we don't have the right stats for yet... but they don't lie. And run-first, one-read QBs don't throw for 3000 yards.

At some point people are going to have to pick one way to deride Young... is he bad because he was in a "pass-happy offense" or is he bad because he "ran first".

Trick question. The answer is "neither". People have preconcieved notions of him and mold what they see to fit their opinion, rather than the other way around. young is a run-first, one-read QB. if you think the stats tell you otherwise, by all means, think what you want. some of us choose to watch the games and see what's going on.

Alrighty... yeah, I think I'll disregard every expert in the field and go with a dude from a message board's opinion.

:shakeno:


He's also run a 4.88 forty. And a 4.55 forty. Which is best representitive? Who knows? But he's capable of a 4.55 forty. i don't know why you even bother arguing on this board, the only thing you use as evidence is information you gather from scouting reports or the stats on sportsline.com. jacobs is NOT a dual threat whatsoever, any scout that says that is completely wrong, or they're just assuming that a black QB with anything under a 5.0 in the 40 can run. although, i guess jacobs has about as much of a shot as being a successful dual-threat QB in the NFL as vince young has at just being a competent passer in the NFL.

and just because you use the blue frowney smiley every single post doesn't mean you're better than everyone, despite what you may think. you're wrong here, as you are in just about every topic of discussion.

Crowder52
04-10-2006, 07:26 PM
and just because you use the blue frowney smiley every single post doesn't mean you're better than everyone, despite what you may think. you're wrong here, as you are in just about every topic of discussion.

That was amazing.

Crowder52
04-10-2006, 07:28 PM
On a side note, I played against Jacobs in high school. The dude could run then, but I'll admit I haven't watched his college ball games enough to know if he took that with him when he went to college.

daniel3
04-10-2006, 07:46 PM
Alrighty... yeah, I think I'll disregard every expert in the field and go with a dude from a message board's opinion.

:shakeno:


He's also run a 4.88 forty. And a 4.55 forty. Which is best representitive? Who knows? But he's capable of a 4.55 forty.

Well you dont have to go with saves over the experts, but Jacobs has said he pretty much is and wants to work primarily out of the pocket. He's also been somewhat criticized for his unwillingness to run at times even though we all know he can. Many say he's like that because he doesn't want to be labeled like how you're labeling him right now (oh well so much for that).

nopony
04-10-2006, 08:53 PM
Well you dont have to go with saves over the experts, but Jacobs has said he pretty much is and wants to work primarily out of the pocket. He's also been somewhat criticized for his unwillingness to run at times even though we all know he can. Many say he's like that because he doesn't want to be labeled like how you're labeling him right now (oh well so much for that).

Let's work backward shall we.

You have it exactly right. That's exactly what is going on.

He CAN run, he HASN'T run.

Which, if people read back, was my point.

I didn't label him as anythiing, I discussed him.

nopony
04-10-2006, 08:59 PM
young is a run-first, one-read QB. if you think the stats tell you otherwise, by all means, think what you want. some of us choose to watch the games and see what's going on.
i don't know why you even bother arguing on this board, the only thing you use as evidence is information you gather from scouting reports or the stats on sportsline.com. jacobs is NOT a dual threat whatsoever, any scout that says that is completely wrong, or they're just assuming that a black QB with anything under a 5.0 in the 40 can run. although, i guess jacobs has about as much of a shot as being a successful dual-threat QB in the NFL as vince young has at just being a competent passer in the NFL.

and just because you use the blue frowney smiley every single post doesn't mean you're better than everyone, despite what you may think. you're wrong here, as you are in just about every topic of discussion.

Well, lets see here.

1. You criticize me for using facts. Brilliant. By all means, let's not use stats or experts., let's use wannabe's opinions and treat them as fact.

The last refuge of someone who can't win an argument... whining about someone using facts.

Sad.

2. As the posts below you reiterate, Jacobs CAN run, but has chosen not to. That doesn't mean that his talent goes away - just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there... and assuming it does is why you don't make the money the experts you so easily dismiss do.

Or perhaps you just chose not to read where I pointed out that he wasn't a scrambling qb earlier.

3. Grow up. If you want to stoop to personal insults, talk to somebody else.

If you think I am wrong on every topic why don't you show me where instead of falling back on generalizations and junior high school insults.



Oh, and why on earth do you keep tossing out this silly "didn't watch the games" nonsense? You think I didn't watch because I also quote experts and use stats? Ridiculous. Oh my, yes, the fact that I saw the same thing that most scouts saw must surely mean I didn't watch any college football. Lame.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-10-2006, 09:45 PM
Well, lets see here.

1. You criticize me for using facts. Brilliant. By all means, let's not use stats or experts., let's use wannabe's opinions and treat them as fact.

The last refuge of someone who can't win an argument... whining about someone using facts.

Sad.
the problem is, you're not using facts. you're using the statistical facts and making them the facts about the player's potential. you look at young's stats and say "he must be a good quarterback." you look at cutler's stats and say he's not as good as the other QB's because his stats aren't as good.

2. As the posts below you reiterate, Jacobs CAN run, but has chosen not to. That doesn't mean that his talent goes away - just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there... and assuming it does is why you don't make the money the experts you so easily dismiss do.

Or perhaps you just chose not to read where I pointed out that he wasn't a scrambling qb earlier.
yes he CAN run, but that doesn't make him a dual-threat QB at all. he and cutler are both virtually the same athletically, but no one calls cutler a dual-threat QB. what makes a QB a "dual-threat" is his scrambling ability, so why even call him that since you said he doesn't scramble? he and young have nothing in common as quarterbacks.


3. Grow up. If you want to stoop to personal insults, talk to somebody else.

If you think I am wrong on every topic why don't you show me where instead of falling back on generalizations and junior high school insults.
:shakeno:


Oh, and why on earth do you keep tossing out this silly "didn't watch the games" nonsense? You think I didn't watch because I also quote experts and use stats? Ridiculous. Oh my, yes, the fact that I saw the same thing that most scouts saw must surely mean I didn't watch any college football. Lame.
the fact that you don't actually state your own opinion, the fact that you quote scouts or something from a website, the fact that you use STATS to project a player's pro protential, etc...is a pretty strong indication that you don't know what you're talking about.

saves
04-10-2006, 10:00 PM
Alrighty... yeah, I think I'll disregard every expert in the field and go with a dude from a message board's opinion.

:shakeno:


He's also run a 4.88 forty. And a 4.55 forty. Which is best representitive? Who knows? But he's capable of a 4.55 forty.

How bout this dude from the message board that saw every start that Omar has ever made and lived the floor above him last year? He ran like a 4.7 this offseason, and is not capable of a 4.55. There is a huge difference in 4.7 and 4.5 speed. But keep believing what you want, maybe if you search back you'll find the very large write-up about him I posted, I know alot about how he plays. But I'm sure you'll go spreading the word of the "experts" that say he is a 4.5 guy that will beat you with his feet!

wazzy
04-10-2006, 10:10 PM
I think Saban is intrigued by him because he has a lot of upside and would be a project with a lot of athletic ability!

Motion
04-10-2006, 10:23 PM
and just because you use the blue frowney smiley every single post doesn't mean you're better than everyone, despite what you may think. you're wrong here, as you are in just about every topic of discussion.

:yes: :clap:


Alrighty... yeah, I think I'll disregard every expert in the field and go with a dude from a message board's opinion.

What makes you any different?

nopony
04-10-2006, 11:53 PM
the problem is, you're not using facts. you're using the statistical facts and making them the facts about the player's potential. you look at young's stats and say "he must be a good quarterback." you look at cutler's stats and say he's not as good as the other QB's because his stats aren't as good.

And I said that where exactly?

And "you're not using facts. you're using the statistical facts..."

Huh????

And have you heard of something called the strawman fallacy? If you aren't going to accurately portray what I have said, don't bother responding. With whatever account you are insulting people with this week.


yes he CAN run, but that doesn't make him a dual-threat QB at all. he and cutler are both virtually the same athletically, but no one calls cutler a dual-threat QB. what makes a QB a "dual-threat" is his scrambling ability, so why even call him that since you said he doesn't scramble? he and young have nothing in common as quarterbacks.

Because he and Cutler AREN'T virtually the same athletically. Sheesh.

And I already listed several things they have in common, so you just repeating that they don't isn't persuasive.


:shakeno:




the fact that you don't actually state your own opinion, the fact that you quote scouts or something from a website, the fact that you use STATS to project a player's pro protential, etc...is a pretty strong indication that you don't know what you're talking about.


Good grief. I state my opinion all the time. Then, when possible, I back it up with facts or the occasional "expert" opinion.

I cannot believe someone would say the fact that someone uses facts indicates they don't know what they are talking about. Can you hear yourself? Do you realized how ridiculous that sounds?

I have given my opinion. I have supported my opinions. The fact that you take issue with that is hilarious.

nopony
04-11-2006, 12:00 AM
How bout this dude from the message board that saw every start that Omar has ever made and lived the floor above him last year? He ran like a 4.7 this offseason, and is not capable of a 4.55. There is a huge difference in 4.7 and 4.5 speed. But keep believing what you want, maybe if you search back you'll find the very large write-up about him I posted, I know alot about how he plays. But I'm sure you'll go spreading the word of the "experts" that say he is a 4.5 guy that will beat you with his feet!

Good grief.

Did I ever say I saw every start he ever made?

Do you want to go back and tell the guy he played against that he's lying? Do you want to pretend I said he would "beat you with his feet"?

I listed comparisons between the two and said both "were CONSIDERED dual threats". That is true, whatever you would like to believe.

nopony
04-11-2006, 12:08 AM
:yes: :clap:



What makes you any different?

Huh?

Can you guys figure out in what way you're upset? Am I bad for saying what most scouts think? Or am I bad for just giving my opinion? because I seem to be getting insulted for both at the same time.

I have no idea why it became whine at nopony day, but it's getting old.

Lets talk about the issue of Jacobs or move along. I got out of junior high school a long, long time ago.

Motion
04-11-2006, 06:30 AM
Huh?

Can you guys figure out in what way you're upset? Am I bad for saying what most scouts think? Or am I bad for just giving my opinion? because I seem to be getting insulted for both at the same time.

I have no idea why it became whine at nopony day, but it's getting old.

Lets talk about the issue of Jacobs or move along. I got out of junior high school a long, long time ago.

Its the way you go about it, and always have. You come in here and throw up all these numbers and quotes and talk down to people that you know nothing about. Its ignorant and and immature. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them wrong.

And please, give the :shakeno: 's a rest.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-11-2006, 11:05 AM
Good grief. I state my opinion all the time. Then, when possible, I back it up with facts or the occasional "expert" opinion.

I cannot believe someone would say the fact that someone uses facts indicates they don't know what they are talking about. Can you hear yourself? Do you realized how ridiculous that sounds?

I have given my opinion. I have supported my opinions. The fact that you take issue with that is hilarious.
you're not using facts that relate to the situation at hand, which is projecting a player as a NFL prospect. you use stats to make your own opinion. you listen to scouts only to hear what you want to hear. all the scouts have said cutler is a great prospect, but you decided he's overrated. why? you looked at the stats. i remember you comparing his numbers to young. your opinion is formed based on this, and nothing else.

keep telling yourself you're above everyone.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-11-2006, 11:08 AM
I listed comparisons between the two and said both "were CONSIDERED dual threats". That is true, whatever you would like to believe.
no they're not! show me who thinks jacobs is a dual threat.