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View Full Version : Commentary: Saban's simple strategy: No reaching in draft



MDFINFAN
04-14-2006, 12:51 AM
Good article..check it out, and give your take.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2006/04/14/a1c_stoda_0414.html

Strangeworld
04-14-2006, 12:58 AM
Nice read... A far cry from the days of a one David Wannstedt when he would trade the farm for a position of need.

NorFlaFin
04-14-2006, 10:32 AM
I remember DWs' mentor taking sawed-off RB out of UF. Everybody thought it was a huge reach.
Ever hear of this RB...Emmit Smith or something like that:tongue: .

The point is not every player is a universal fit. One teams reach is another value pick.

Gardenhead
04-14-2006, 11:37 AM
I'm a huge advocate of BPA over need. That's why all the pre-draft mocks are weird. If a team goes for BPA, their pick is contingent on the picks that go before them.

All mocks I've seen have us picking a DB or WR. But if we go BPA, then that's not necessarily gonna happen.

jimthefin
04-14-2006, 02:13 PM
What is the deal with that writer calling it the "Wunderlich" test?

Are we in Germany now? ;)

The company is called Wonderlic.Inc.

Redneck Friend
04-14-2006, 04:54 PM
i don't buy into that at all.

lets face it, RONNIE BROWN was a real stretch at the #2
overall pic. plus the insane money he got?

all this for a guy who wasn't the featured back on his
college team.

BIG TIME REACH!!

and, i like him, he showed "flashes" , but he still has LOTS
to prove and ricky was still the better back last year, even
after a year off and losing 30 lbs.

time will tell. for him to be worth the pic and the money, he
will have to have a 2,000 yd season sooner rather than later and
be making a whole lotta game changing plays [not fumbling them].

now, he could very well get us 1200-1300 yds a year on the ground
and another 600 or so recieving which will definately get the fins
where they want to go, but not worth #2 over all, plus that
guarenteed money!

saban reached, period! and will again! thats how you find talent.

but hopefully not that much again. way over payed for brown.

SSMiami
04-14-2006, 05:40 PM
I see we are still attracting crazy people on this board.

Tureo
04-14-2006, 06:02 PM
i don't buy into that at all.

lets face it, RONNIE BROWN was a real stretch at the #2
overall pic. plus the insane money he got?

all this for a guy who wasn't the featured back on his
college team.

BIG TIME REACH!!

and, i like him, he showed "flashes" , but he still has LOTS
to prove and ricky was still the better back last year, even
after a year off and losing 30 lbs.

time will tell. for him to be worth the pic and the money, he
will have to have a 2,000 yd season sooner rather than later and
be making a whole lotta game changing plays [not fumbling them].

now, he could very well get us 1200-1300 yds a year on the ground
and another 600 or so recieving which will definately get the fins
where they want to go, but not worth #2 over all, plus that
guarenteed money!

saban reached, period! and will again! thats how you find talent.

but hopefully not that much again. way over payed for brown.


:sidelol:

Kyfinsfan
04-15-2006, 02:45 AM
If the standard for "non-reaching" for a RB is the 3rd best rushing total in NFL history within 2-5 years, I wouldn't want to be a GM who passed over such prodigious NFL talents like Aaron Rodgers.

Kdawg954
04-15-2006, 09:53 AM
i don't buy into that at all.

lets face it, RONNIE BROWN was a real stretch at the #2
overall pic. plus the insane money he got?

all this for a guy who wasn't the featured back on his
college team.

BIG TIME REACH!!

and, i like him, he showed "flashes" , but he still has LOTS
to prove and ricky was still the better back last year, even
after a year off and losing 30 lbs.

time will tell. for him to be worth the pic and the money, he
will have to have a 2,000 yd season sooner rather than later and
be making a whole lotta game changing plays [not fumbling them].

now, he could very well get us 1200-1300 yds a year on the ground
and another 600 or so recieving which will definately get the fins
where they want to go, but not worth #2 over all, plus that
guarenteed money!

saban reached, period! and will again! thats how you find talent.

but hopefully not that much again. way over payed for brown.

Hmmm, considering last years draft does not have near the talent of this one, we were in a tuff spot. Impossible to trade down last year or we would have, and Brown was best available on everybody's list and also filled a glaring need. Now in Brown what did we get, quite possibly the best pass receiving back and blocker in the draft, not to mention a very tuff runner, and I like him over Cadillac and Benson. And why did we give him so much money, hmmm he was the second overall pick, thats how it goes. I don't think Saban reached at all, I think he took BPA and I am extremely excited of the potential of having one of the games best "overall backs" (I think Edgerrin James holds this title right now) within the next 2 or 3 years. Brown definetly didn't dissappoint considering the line problems early in the year and the splittin of carries. With all that being said, alot is going to be expected of him this year, especially if Ricky goes down, so like everything else we will see.

Phins28
04-15-2006, 11:26 AM
i don't buy into that at all.

lets face it, RONNIE BROWN was a real stretch at the #2
overall pic. plus the insane money he got?

all this for a guy who wasn't the featured back on his
college team.

BIG TIME REACH!!

and, i like him, he showed "flashes" , but he still has LOTS
to prove and ricky was still the better back last year, even
after a year off and losing 30 lbs.

time will tell. for him to be worth the pic and the money, he
will have to have a 2,000 yd season sooner rather than later and
be making a whole lotta game changing plays [not fumbling them].

now, he could very well get us 1200-1300 yds a year on the ground
and another 600 or so recieving which will definately get the fins
where they want to go, but not worth #2 over all, plus that
guarenteed money!

saban reached, period! and will again! thats how you find talent.

but hopefully not that much again. way over payed for brown.

You either drunk or don't know nothing about football. :shakeno:

Redneck Friend
04-15-2006, 04:35 PM
You either drunk or don't know nothing about football.


typical imature comment. when a guy is young and has no real
thought or knowledge of the game or how the draft REALLY
works, this is always what these types post.

and i think you meant "your drunk" not "you drunk" right smart
guy?

yes, ronnie can block a bit. but tell me one coach, player,
etc.... who says he IS the best blocker in the nfl at his
position?

and EVERYONE missed what i said in the post. he might
back up those numbers and lagitamise his spot by
running for big numbers every year and catching a bunch
of passes.

everyone raves on how big a catcher he is but in a linehan
offense that throws and throws, ronnie wasn't getting the
call alot was he?

tell me which coach, player, g.m. etc.... says he IS the best
pass catcher in the nfl right now at his position?

and guys are talking "we had a need"..... if anyone actually
followed the draft and the guys who are draft "athorities"
like gm's and so forth, the successful ones all say right off
the bat, the worst mistake you can make in the draft is
taking a so called need high in the draft, expecially if
there are ANY questions about his game.

you think right now there is no one in the nfl who can run and catch
and block better than ronnie? and who were not taken 2nd overall?

like i said, time will tell. but as of now, it was a reach for a "need"
and we will see if sabans reach pans out.

i am hoping he will!!!

cnc66
04-15-2006, 04:42 PM
so Redneck, who do you feel WAS a value pick at two that we did not take?

COMEBACKRICKY
04-15-2006, 04:48 PM
there were lots of "needs" last year so just about any other pick according to you would have been a reach. what would you have done with the #2 pick? I am very happy about what our team did. and you cant compare ronnie to veterans of this game. of course he isnt the best blocker or catcher.... YET! i see where you are coming from but its still too early to make your argument.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-15-2006, 05:03 PM
considering everyone considered brown worthy of the #2 pick in the draft, it wasn't a reach. a reach is determined by the overall value perceived by the entire league.

and of COURSE ricky williams was the better runningback last year. you mean to tell me a two-time pro bowler and all-pro runningback is better than a rookie? no way!

Phins28
04-15-2006, 05:40 PM
typical imature comment. when a guy is young and has no real
thought or knowledge of the game or how the draft REALLY
works, this is always what these types post.

and i think you meant "your drunk" not "you drunk" right smart
guy?

yes, ronnie can block a bit. but tell me one coach, player,
etc.... who says he IS the best blocker in the nfl at his
position?

and EVERYONE missed what i said in the post. he might
back up those numbers and lagitamise his spot by
running for big numbers every year and catching a bunch
of passes.

everyone raves on how big a catcher he is but in a linehan
offense that throws and throws, ronnie wasn't getting the
call alot was he?

tell me which coach, player, g.m. etc.... says he IS the best
pass catcher in the nfl right now at his position?

and guys are talking "we had a need"..... if anyone actually
followed the draft and the guys who are draft "athorities"
like gm's and so forth, the successful ones all say right off
the bat, the worst mistake you can make in the draft is
taking a so called need high in the draft, expecially if
there are ANY questions about his game.

you think right now there is no one in the nfl who can run and catch
and block better than ronnie? and who were not taken 2nd overall?

like i said, time will tell. but as of now, it was a reach for a "need"
and we will see if sabans reach pans out.

i am hoping he will!!!

I know more about football than you, saying that Ronnie Brown was a reach :shakeno:, so tell me mini-saban which player had more value than Ronnie?, he rushed for 907 on 207 and avg. 4.4, very solid rookie stats, and missed two games!!!

Wareagle phin
04-15-2006, 09:46 PM
i don't buy into that at all.

lets face it, RONNIE BROWN was a real stretch at the #2
overall pic. plus the insane money he got?

all this for a guy who wasn't the featured back on his
college team.

BIG TIME REACH!!

and, i like him, he showed "flashes" , but he still has LOTS
to prove and ricky was still the better back last year, even
after a year off and losing 30 lbs.

time will tell. for him to be worth the pic and the money, he
will have to have a 2,000 yd season sooner rather than later and
be making a whole lotta game changing plays [not fumbling them].

now, he could very well get us 1200-1300 yds a year on the ground
and another 600 or so recieving which will definately get the fins
where they want to go, but not worth #2 over all, plus that
guarenteed money!

saban reached, period! and will again! thats how you find talent.

but hopefully not that much again. way over payed for brown.


You must be a bamerr!

dolfan22
04-15-2006, 11:21 PM
and i think you meant "your drunk" not "you drunk" right smart
guy?



and i think you meant "you're drunk" .......

Just Win Baby
04-15-2006, 11:43 PM
Redneck you do realize Brown was considered the #1 prospect by most experts right?

Vertical Limit
04-15-2006, 11:54 PM
If you are disagreeing with Redneck Friend, you are either a homer or just plain ignorant. His post MADE alot of sense. Ronnie Brown, a back up running back due to injuries in Auburn, WAS a reach for the number 2 pick overall over Cadillac Williams and Cedric Benson.

Now, are we saying that it was a bad pick? No. He actually turned out to be pretty good. Far better receiver than most anticipated, strong blocker, and pretty explosive. Would have easily gained over 1400 yards rushing had he carried the load and didn't have to split carries with Ricky Williams.

Face it, only reason why he was viewed as the best running back is because of the combines and work outs.

In my opinion, we should have chose Cedric Benson with the #2 pick overall. Some of you may think "he didn't show nothing in his rookie season", but guess what? Thomas Jones, a 10th pick overall by Arizona, was the starting running back in Chicago. Larry Johnson didn't show nothing either in his rookie season. Heck, he was the THIRD string running back behind Priest Holmes and Blaylock for 2 seasons, yet he was the first running back picked in the 2003 draft.

Cedric Benson did start one game this season where he ended up getting injured, he rushed over 79 yards on 14 carries.

I'm not hating on Ronnie Brown; heck, I was the one who started the "Time for Ronnie Brown to carry the load" thread, but he was a reach, and a good reach too. I'm glad he is in our team.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-16-2006, 01:25 AM
sigh...he wasn't a backup at auburn. he was RB 1B in auburn's two-back system. a "backup" comes in when the starter is injured or when to spell the starter. but really they used both backs a lot to exploit the defense in different ways. is lendale white reggie bush's backup? no...

and as i said before, he's NOT a reach. every team had him as a top 5 pick. a "reach" is when you draft a player that could have been had for a much lower pick. most teams had him as their #1 runningback, so how could we have been reaching for a need, when we took the BPA?

dlockz
04-16-2006, 02:04 AM
sigh...he wasn't a backup at auburn. he was RB 1B in auburn's two-back system. a "backup" comes in when the starter is injured or when to spell the starter. but really they used both backs a lot to exploit the defense in different ways. is lendale white reggie bush's backup? no...

and as i said before, he's NOT a reach. every team had him as a top 5 pick. a "reach" is when you draft a player that could have been had for a much lower pick. most teams had him as their #1 runningback, so how could we have been reaching for a need, when we took the BPA?

Backup or not Caddy was the featured back and whenever Caddy was healthy he was the main back and sometimes that relegated Ronnie to well under 10 carries a game. The White analagy is not the same because the amount of carries was much more similar between Bush and White than Caddy and Ronnie. As for Ronnie being a reach , hell everybody had him rated high so I don't agree he was in that context a reach. I will say that I know of no other back had similar success in college that was taken this high. Know of no other back that was the number 2 option on his team that wnet higher than the number one option. It was a weak draft at the top where basically the top 10 players had little to distinguish them selves from one or another.
if this years draft class and last years were combined it would look a little like this.
1. Reggie Bush
2. Matt Leinhart
3.Debrickshaw Ferguson
4.Possibly a player from 2005 draft.

Any of these three would have went number one based on who was drafting.
Ronnie Brown and Alex Smith might not go top 10 depending on how the draft fell. The true value of last year's draft was we could not trade our pick and get anything close to decent value which was probably what we tried to do since we talked up Braylon. The backs were considered too close to trade a premium pick to move up and get one. If we had the second pick in this year's draft, we would have a ton of suiters. I have no problem with taking Brown second although too many on this board proclaim Ronnie's greatness much too soon, I wish we had traded for Shaun Alexander, we would have saved money and got a guy that was a real stud already but oh well.

Vertical Limit
04-16-2006, 02:21 AM
sigh...he wasn't a backup at auburn. he was RB 1B in auburn's two-back system. a "backup" comes in when the starter is injured or when to spell the starter. but really they used both backs a lot to exploit the defense in different ways. is lendale white reggie bush's backup? no...

and as i said before, he's NOT a reach. every team had him as a top 5 pick. a "reach" is when you draft a player that could have been had for a much lower pick. most teams had him as their #1 runningback, so how could we have been reaching for a need, when we took the BPA?
He is not a reach anymore, but he was a reach then. First three games of the season, you would think we drafted a bust especially on how slow he was progressing and how fast Cadillac progressed. All these experts had Ronnie as the "BEST running back" after the workouts and combines. Before that, Cedric Benson was the "BEST running back" most had in their mock drafts landing in Miami.

Right now, some of you argue that Jay Cutler's Senior Bowl and combine doesn't matter because he will still be a better QB than Vince Young and some of you crazies even mention better than Matt Leinart, but guess what? These combines and work outs pretty much make and break the value of how these "experts" view them in the draft. They throw away what they did the entire College career, and just go with how much they can lift, how fast they are on the 40, and how high they can jump.

Just look at Vince Young. The day after the Rose Bowl everyone had him going in the Top 3 especially with the year he had in Texas the entire season. Now after a few private workouts, everyone is talking about him being a draft bust and possibly landing at number 7-10.

PhinsPhan
04-16-2006, 02:28 AM
I remember DWs' mentor taking sawed-off RB out of UF. Everybody thought it was a huge reach.
Ever hear of this RB...Emmit Smith or something like that:tongue: .

The point is not every player is a universal fit. One teams reach is another value pick.

lofa tatupu was considered a reach last year. Look how he turned out.

dlockz
04-16-2006, 12:24 PM
He is not a reach anymore, but he was a reach then. First three games of the season, you would think we drafted a bust especially on how slow he was progressing and how fast Cadillac progressed. All these experts had Ronnie as the "BEST running back" after the workouts and combines. Before that, Cedric Benson was the "BEST running back" most had in their mock drafts landing in Miami.

Right now, some of you argue that Jay Cutler's Senior Bowl and combine doesn't matter because he will still be a better QB than Vince Young and some of you crazies even mention better than Matt Leinart, but guess what? These combines and work outs pretty much make and break the value of how these "experts" view them in the draft. They throw away what they did the entire College career, and just go with how much they can lift, how fast they are on the 40, and how high they can jump.

Just look at Vince Young. The day after the Rose Bowl everyone had him going in the Top 3 especially with the year he had in Texas the entire season. Now after a few private workouts, everyone is talking about him being a draft bust and possibly landing at number 7-10.

I do think the combine has way too much affect on a players draft. I mean look at 40 time that is easily a very misguided statistic and some of the best backs ever were drafted lower because of thier 40 time. With the way the draft has panned out I'm not sure anyone call call themnselves a draft expert with the amount of busts taken high every year.

Kdawg954
04-16-2006, 02:56 PM
People saying Ronnie was a reach at 2 still haven't shown who would have had better value at that spot. I mean I can't lie, if Brown and Alez smith were in this draft class, I honestly believe Alex doesn't go top 20, Brown probably doesn't go top 10 either, but thats the point, for the 2005 draft class, Brown wasn't a reach or a steal at 2, that was the appropriate pick I feel. He was hands down considered the best receiving back and best blocking back in the draft, not to mention extremely explosive, especially for his size which was ideal. Cadillac had size issues, and Benson was not the receiver/blocker that Brown is.

Mannn, mark my words, we are gonna see alot of receptions from Mr. Brown this year, including some WR packages, the man is versatile

Phins28
04-16-2006, 03:04 PM
People saying Ronnie was a reach at 2 still haven't shown who would have had better value at that spot. I mean I can't lie, if Brown and Alez smith were in this draft class, I honestly believe Alex doesn't go top 20, Brown probably doesn't go top 10 either, but thats the point, for the 2005 draft class, Brown wasn't a reach or a steal at 2, that was the appropriate pick I feel. He was hands down considered the best receiving back and best blocking back in the draft, not to mention extremely explosive, especially for his size which was ideal. Cadillac had size issues, and Benson was not the receiver/blocker that Brown is.

Mannn, mark my words, we are gonna see alot of receptions from Mr. Brown this year, including some WR packages, the man is versatile

:yeahthat: