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PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 02:50 PM
I don't care what anyone says, and i don't usually question Nick, but this pick is terrible in my opinion. This Miami team had many needs, OL, LB, DB and there are so many capable guys left on the board (Greenway, Justice, Lawson, Carpenter, Cromartie, Williams, Joseph) and they reach for a guy coming off a bad injury who was flagged by multiple teams in physicals? C'mon. They could have even traded down and got him later while getting another pick. I don't think Allen can play corner. Ho doesn't have the fluid hips to cover top NFL receivers. I think he can only play safety. I don't think he is anywhere near as good as Whitner and i think this is too high to take a safety with a questionable injury. Ugh.

HysterikiLL
04-29-2006, 02:52 PM
The guy can hit, when he's not injured or getting run over. I'll come around eventually, but right now I'm mourning.

Dors156
04-29-2006, 02:53 PM
i am so dissapointed in this pick:fire:

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 02:54 PM
He might turn out to be a great player b/c he does have a ton of athletic ability, but as of right now, this minute, i can't get past his injury with how many holes our team has and the lack of picks we have to fill them.

uga3406
04-29-2006, 03:04 PM
well said ...this guy sucks as does the pick. what happened to lawson ? now all we have left is a 3rd and 4th and 3 ****ty 7th rd picks. oh boy i cant wait to see what we do next !!!!!!!!!!1

AquaAssasin
04-29-2006, 03:36 PM
I don't care what anyone says, and i don't usually question Nick, but this pick is terrible in my opinion. This Miami team had many needs, OL, LB, DB and there are so many capable guys left on the board (Greenway, Justice, Lawson, Carpenter, Cromartie, Williams, Joseph) and they reach for a guy coming off a bad injury who was flagged by multiple teams in physicals? C'mon. They could have even traded down and got him later while getting another pick. I don't think Allen can play corner. Ho doesn't have the fluid hips to cover top NFL receivers. I think he can only play safety. I don't think he is anywhere near as good as Whitner and i think this is too high to take a safety with a questionable injury. Ugh.

Last time i checked we had a glaring need at DB (corner or safety depending how you look at it). The team blitzes alot so it obvious that the team needed a safety that can cover and tackle. It was a smart move considering huff was gone.

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 03:38 PM
Then draft a corner like Joseph and let Daniels play S (or Poole).

MustangFinFan
04-29-2006, 03:43 PM
we dont need a Tackle, so forget Justice. Do we need an OLB? We already have Hodge, Spragan, Pope. Yes we have so many CBs, but SAFETY is what we DONT have much of....we have Cooper, Bell, Tillman, and Hill...out of those guys, WHO is an absolute starter??? they are all decent guys who can improve....but NONE of them are starting material....possibly Deke Cooper. Allen was a good pick.....i just think we need to trade to get a 2nd

AquaAssasin
04-29-2006, 03:43 PM
Then draft a corner like Joseph and let Daniels play S (or Poole).

Allen is a better all around db than joseph. You dont find many guys with that kind of size that can cover and tackle not too mention his 40 time!

Poole is a corner not a safety. We needed help at safety. last time I checked we had nobody to fill the void when schulters left.

VanDolPhan
04-29-2006, 03:44 PM
I don't care what anyone says, and i don't usually question Nick, but this pick is terrible in my opinion. This Miami team had many needs, OL, LB, DB and there are so many capable guys left on the board (Greenway, Justice, Lawson, Carpenter, Cromartie, Williams, Joseph) and they reach for a guy coming off a bad injury who was flagged by multiple teams in physicals? C'mon. They could have even traded down and got him later while getting another pick. I don't think Allen can play corner. Ho doesn't have the fluid hips to cover top NFL receivers. I think he can only play safety. I don't think he is anywhere near as good as Whitner and i think this is too high to take a safety with a questionable injury. Ugh.

A) There was no one to trade with. If you haven't noticed there's only been 2 trades and one of those was merely a one spot 6th round pick. The players are too closely together that no one wants to trade.

B) Jason Allen is EQUAL to Huff and they woulda battled for the first DB off the board if it wasn't for the hip injury.

C) Saban said they didn't pick Justice because they had a few defensive players on the board and that Carey "progressed very nicely last year".

D) Saban said the medical staff spent a lot of time with Allen and they cleared him without any real issue. Miami has one of the toughest medical staffs in the league (failed Brees on the physical and other players over the years that others passed).

E) Pro analysis:

Vic Carucci's Analysis
Allen gives the Dolphins a solid cornerback with impressive coverage skills. Nick Saban needed to fill that hole in his defense. And he needs good, lock-down corners to play the aggressive scheme he wants to play.

Gil Brandt: I don't think this is a reach. People were concerned about his hip, but otherwise he's a top-10 pick. I think they got great value. Saban tried to recruit him out of high school when he was the coach at LSU.

Pat Kirwan: A very talented guy. When he ran well before the scouts, it became clear his hip was OK. One of the three safeties in this draft who can play corner. He's fast and versatile, he can handle all kinds of matchup problems.

F) Height: 6-1 Weight: 208 40 Speed: 4.49
Miami now has the size Saban wants with 3 guys at 6-1 (Allen, Daniels, Tillman and 1 with 6'0 in Bell)

AquaAssasin
04-29-2006, 03:45 PM
we dont need a Tackle, so forget Justice. Do we need an OLB? We already have Hodge, Spragan, Pope. Yes we have so many CBs, but SAFETY is what we DONT have much of....we have Cooper, Bell, Tillman, and Hill...out of those guys, WHO is an absolute starter??? they are all decent guys who can improve....but NONE of them are starting material....possibly Deke Cooper. Allen was a good pick.....i just think we need to trade to get a 2nd

I agree but I think its real hard to get a second at this time. It would have been nice but if saban can still pull it off than that will be aswesome...

Boomer
04-29-2006, 03:49 PM
I don't care what anyone says, and i don't usually question Nick, but this pick is terrible in my opinion. This Miami team had many needs, OL, LB, DB and there are so many capable guys left on the board (Greenway, Justice, Lawson, Carpenter, Cromartie, Williams, Joseph) and they reach for a guy coming off a bad injury who was flagged by multiple teams in physicals? C'mon. They could have even traded down and got him later while getting another pick. I don't think Allen can play corner. Ho doesn't have the fluid hips to cover top NFL receivers. I think he can only play safety. I don't think he is anywhere near as good as Whitner and i think this is too high to take a safety with a questionable injury. Ugh.


Gayest post I've ever read.

Dolfan11
04-29-2006, 03:49 PM
Are you guys serious? This guy is healthy, if he wasn't he wouldn't have ran and performed the way he did in the combine. He wouldn't have passed OUR team physical. This guy has talent and a ton of potential. When he makes the probowl and is a top saftey, all of you will eat your words because this is a good pick, whether we could of traded down or not. He's a playmaker and he will produce. IMO Allen > Whitner.

MustangFinFan
04-29-2006, 03:54 PM
Gayest post I've ever read.

Boomer can u tell us if u think we will be able to get a 2nd rounder this year by some sort of trade???

Boomer
04-29-2006, 03:55 PM
Very unlikely mate

Roman529
04-29-2006, 03:57 PM
Couldn't we have traded down?? Now we have to wait 5-6 hours to draft in round 3. :(

Trackstar
04-29-2006, 03:57 PM
A) There was no one to trade with. If you haven't noticed there's only been 2 trades and one of those was merely a one spot 6th round pick. The players are too closely together that no one wants to trade.

B) Jason Allen is EQUAL to Huff and they woulda battled for the first DB off the board if it wasn't for the hip injury.

C) Saban said they didn't pick Justice because they had a few defensive players on the board and that Carey "progressed very nicely last year".

D) Saban said the medical staff spent a lot of time with Allen and they cleared him without any real issue. Miami has one of the toughest medical staffs in the league (failed Brees on the physical and other players over the years that others passed).

E) Pro analysis:

Vic Carucci's Analysis
Allen gives the Dolphins a solid cornerback with impressive coverage skills. Nick Saban needed to fill that hole in his defense. And he needs good, lock-down corners to play the aggressive scheme he wants to play.

Gil Brandt: I don't think this is a reach. People were concerned about his hip, but otherwise he's a top-10 pick. I think they got great value. Saban tried to recruit him out of high school when he was the coach at LSU.

Pat Kirwan: A very talented guy. When he ran well before the scouts, it became clear his hip was OK. One of the three safeties in this draft who can play corner. He's fast and versatile, he can handle all kinds of matchup problems.

F) Height: 6-1 Weight: 208 40 Speed: 4.49
Miami now has the size Saban wants with 3 guys at 6-1 (Allen, Daniels, Tillman and 1 with 6'0 in Bell)

Well said! Keep in mind he ran a 4.41 at the combine, outstanding for a safety! No matter what move we make it seems there will always be people who will not only disagree but totally dog the decision. Allen has is a top 10 overall selection who fell down draft boards because of a hip injury in which he has fully recovered from. Enough said.

You guys need to get your facts straight before you dog this move!

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 03:58 PM
Gayest post I've ever read.

Wow, tons of insight there.

Trackstar
04-29-2006, 03:58 PM
well said ...this guy sucks as does the pick. what happened to lawson ? now all we have left is a 3rd and 4th and 3 ****ty 7th rd picks. oh boy i cant wait to see what we do next !!!!!!!!!!1

Do a little research buddy.

MustangFinFan
04-29-2006, 03:59 PM
wasnt Boomer the one who predicted we would take Jason Allen??? if he says we wont trade for a 2nd, then my hopes are lost.

yeah, wake me up too in 5 hours when we pick next.

Trackstar
04-29-2006, 04:00 PM
Wow, tons of insight there.

I think Boomer has offered plenty of insight over the past couple of years.

VanDolPhan
04-29-2006, 04:00 PM
Gayest post I've ever read.

And Boomer's ready a lot of G-H-E-Y posts. :tongue:


Wow, tons of insight there.

He didn't have to. I gave you all the insight which you couldn't comment to. Boomer would only be repeating what I said with a couple extra comments.

MustangFinFan
04-29-2006, 04:05 PM
never argue with Boomer...the guy is a football genius.


honestly....i think hes Saban in disguise. he seems to know more then Saban does.:lol:

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Like i said, if he turns out to stay healthy and become a great player, you guys will have been right and i'll be extrememly happy that i was wrong and this worried. But injuries like this do worry me. Allen had 1 great year, and one big injury. I've seen a hip injury ruin the career of Bo Jackson. I've seen injuries question marks hurt out drafted players in the past (Moore, Green, etc). And i've seen our coaches fall in love with players before and reach too early or pay too high a price. So of course i'm going to be pessimistic.

Boomer
04-29-2006, 04:07 PM
Wow, tons of insight there.

Allen - most athletic defensive back in the last 2 years. Can play corner or safety, tackles well, instinctive, was a top 10 pick before the hip injury. As for the injury, remember, Miami's medical testing is the toughest in the league. Drew Brees FAILED our medical. He passed New Orleans' who are pretty stringent. If Allen is passing our medical then he's OK. He's smooth, quick and has great feet.

Anything else?

PhinSoldia
04-29-2006, 04:08 PM
so boom your ok with this pick???

Trackstar
04-29-2006, 04:09 PM
Allen - most athletic defensive back in the last 2 years. Can play corner or safety, tackles well, instinctive, was a top 10 pick before the hip injury. As for the injury, remember, Miami's medical testing is the toughest in the league. Drew Brees FAILED our medical. He passed New Orleans' who are pretty stringent. If Allen is passing our medical then he's OK. He's smooth, quick and has great feet.

Anything else?
:0wned:

Get em Boomer.

Allen18
04-29-2006, 04:15 PM
Like i said, if he turns out to stay healthy and become a great player, you guys will have been right and i'll be extrememly happy that i was wrong and this worried. But injuries like this do worry me. Allen had 1 great year, and one big injury. I've seen a hip injury ruin the career of Bo Jackson. I've seen injuries question marks hurt out drafted players in the past (Moore, Green, etc). And i've seen our coaches fall in love with players before and reach too early or pay too high a price. So of course i'm going to be pessimistic.
Allen had two great seasons and a third in the making until his injury. His sophomore year he didn't start until midway into the season, and was awesome after the Alabama game when he finally got a big confidence boost. He shut down guys at corner his sophomore year, ask Kellen Winslow about him from '03......and then he led the SEC in tackles at FS his junior year. After watching him his senior year back at corner, he was well on his way to being an All-American until he was injured. He was shutting great recievers down....check Chad Jackson's stats against Tenn....and he was also laying down some of the biggest hits of his career. It's understandable to be cautious with a hip injury but it has been diagnosed for months now as non-degenerative.

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/04/allen110803lg-1.jpg

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 04:21 PM
Again, i'm not going to question his athletic ability. Athletically, the guy is amazing. If not for his injury, i'd love this pick (i was a big fan of Whitner, who is a very similar player). But the injury worries me.

MustangFinFan
04-29-2006, 04:23 PM
Again, i'm not going to question his athletic ability. Athletically, the guy is amazing. If not for his injury, i'd love this pick (i was a big fan of Whitner, who is a very similar player). But the injury worries me.

hey come on....everyone was worried about Channing Crowder and his knees.....but look at him, hes amazing. People seem to be forgetting, Miami had the MOST STARTING ROOKIES last year. (Crowder, Daniels, Brown). i read that on espn...and im proud of it.

Dolfan32323
04-29-2006, 04:27 PM
Nick knows what he's doing. You'll see, Allen is a stud and a steal at pick 16.

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 04:32 PM
I hope so . . . all this debating is making me feel a little better about the pick. But the hip, the hip man! Why couldn't it be a shoulder! :judge:

miamiron
04-29-2006, 04:33 PM
A) There was no one to trade with. If you haven't noticed there's only been 2 trades and one of those was merely a one spot 6th round pick. The players are too closely together that no one wants to trade.

B) Jason Allen is EQUAL to Huff and they woulda battled for the first DB off the board if it wasn't for the hip injury.

C) Saban said they didn't pick Justice because they had a few defensive players on the board and that Carey "progressed very nicely last year".

D) Saban said the medical staff spent a lot of time with Allen and they cleared him without any real issue. Miami has one of the toughest medical staffs in the league (failed Brees on the physical and other players over the years that others passed).

E) Pro analysis:

Vic Carucci's Analysis
Allen gives the Dolphins a solid cornerback with impressive coverage skills. Nick Saban needed to fill that hole in his defense. And he needs good, lock-down corners to play the aggressive scheme he wants to play.

Gil Brandt: I don't think this is a reach. People were concerned about his hip, but otherwise he's a top-10 pick. I think they got great value. Saban tried to recruit him out of high school when he was the coach at LSU.

Pat Kirwan: A very talented guy. When he ran well before the scouts, it became clear his hip was OK. One of the three safeties in this draft who can play corner. He's fast and versatile, he can handle all kinds of matchup problems.

F) Height: 6-1 Weight: 208 40 Speed: 4.49
Miami now has the size Saban wants with 3 guys at 6-1 (Allen, Daniels, Tillman and 1 with 6'0 in Bell)

Thank god for your post!!!

With all the negative posts regarding Allen I was ready to run over to CVS
and purchase some razor blades to end my life since the Dolphins have BLOWN the draft and there is no hope even though we havent seen JA
play one down yet.

Let me spit out the Lexapro's I have been eating like M&Ms since #16 and
thank you Mr. VanDolPhan for putting things in the proper perspective
for me and the nay sayers.

outstanding choice at # 16

MiamiRon

miamiron
04-29-2006, 04:34 PM
A) There was no one to trade with. If you haven't noticed there's only been 2 trades and one of those was merely a one spot 6th round pick. The players are too closely together that no one wants to trade.

B) Jason Allen is EQUAL to Huff and they woulda battled for the first DB off the board if it wasn't for the hip injury.

C) Saban said they didn't pick Justice because they had a few defensive players on the board and that Carey "progressed very nicely last year".

D) Saban said the medical staff spent a lot of time with Allen and they cleared him without any real issue. Miami has one of the toughest medical staffs in the league (failed Brees on the physical and other players over the years that others passed).

E) Pro analysis:

Vic Carucci's Analysis
Allen gives the Dolphins a solid cornerback with impressive coverage skills. Nick Saban needed to fill that hole in his defense. And he needs good, lock-down corners to play the aggressive scheme he wants to play.

Gil Brandt: I don't think this is a reach. People were concerned about his hip, but otherwise he's a top-10 pick. I think they got great value. Saban tried to recruit him out of high school when he was the coach at LSU.

Pat Kirwan: A very talented guy. When he ran well before the scouts, it became clear his hip was OK. One of the three safeties in this draft who can play corner. He's fast and versatile, he can handle all kinds of matchup problems.

F) Height: 6-1 Weight: 208 40 Speed: 4.49
Miami now has the size Saban wants with 3 guys at 6-1 (Allen, Daniels, Tillman and 1 with 6'0 in Bell)

Thank god for your post!!!:dolphins:

With all the negative posts regarding Allen I was ready to run over to CVS
and purchase some razor blades to end my life since the Dolphins have BLOWN the draft and there is no hope even though we havent seen JA
play one down yet.

Let me spit out the Lexapro's I have been eating like M&Ms since #16 and
thank you Mr. VanDolPhan for putting things in the proper perspective
for me and the nay sayers.

outstanding choice at # 16

MiamiRon:tongue:

Dolfan32323
04-29-2006, 04:36 PM
I hope so . . . all this debating is making me feel a little better about the pick. But the hip, the hip man! Why couldn't it be a shoulder! :judge:
By know you know he was amazing at the combine and the medical staff cleared him to play (the same one that FAILED Brees). No worries :rawk:

Aqua4Ever04
04-29-2006, 04:37 PM
I don't care what anyone says, and i don't usually question Nick, but this pick is terrible in my opinion. This Miami team had many needs, OL, LB, DB and there are so many capable guys left on the board (Greenway, Justice, Lawson, Carpenter, Cromartie, Williams, Joseph) and they reach for a guy coming off a bad injury who was flagged by multiple teams in physicals? C'mon. They could have even traded down and got him later while getting another pick. I don't think Allen can play corner. Ho doesn't have the fluid hips to cover top NFL receivers. I think he can only play safety. I don't think he is anywhere near as good as Whitner and i think this is too high to take a safety with a questionable injury. Ugh.

Just shut up and get out of here. Sorry, but I am sick and tired of all these haters. You probably don't even know a thing about Allen. Let him play before you critique.

VanDolPhan
04-29-2006, 04:42 PM
Just shut up and get out of here. Sorry, but I am sick and tired of all these haters. You probably don't even know a thing about Allen. Let him play before you critique.

You should learn to read an entire thread before sticking your foot in your mouth. If you read on you'd see he came around and only the injury worries him now. Eat your own advice.

Majpain
04-29-2006, 04:44 PM
We dont need OL.IT sounds like we might get walker.LB is a need but we needed to boost are secondary.it was a good pick.

brparkway
04-29-2006, 04:47 PM
Like i said, if he turns out to stay healthy and become a great player, you guys will have been right and i'll be extrememly happy that i was wrong and this worried. But injuries like this do worry me. Allen had 1 great year, and one big injury. I've seen a hip injury ruin the career of Bo Jackson. I've seen injuries question marks hurt out drafted players in the past (Moore, Green, etc). And i've seen our coaches fall in love with players before and reach too early or pay too high a price. So of course i'm going to be pessimistic.

Jackson had a degenerative hip disease, much worse than a separation, which Allen had.

BSQX4
04-29-2006, 04:58 PM
PSU, chill brother, we got a very good prospect at a position of great need. Look at Troy Polamalu of the Steelers and the way that he is used. Stop fretting over the injury. Do you really think Saban would draft damaged goods in the first round? Do you think Saban doesn't do his homework? He knows this player very well and pulled the trigger on him so be happy and look forward to the third round.

LtDan
04-29-2006, 05:00 PM
I don't care what anyone says, and i don't usually question Nick, but this pick is terrible in my opinion. This Miami team had many needs, OL, LB, DB and there are so many capable guys left on the board (Greenway, Justice, Lawson, Carpenter, Cromartie, Williams, Joseph) and they reach for a guy coming off a bad injury who was flagged by multiple teams in physicals? C'mon. They could have even traded down and got him later while getting another pick. I don't think Allen can play corner. Ho doesn't have the fluid hips to cover top NFL receivers. I think he can only play safety. I don't think he is anywhere near as good as Whitner and i think this is too high to take a safety with a questionable injury. Ugh.i will trust Nick over what you think. Thanks though:up:

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 05:03 PM
It's not Saban i have to trust, it's the doctors. I have heard rumors that some doctors think the hip is degenerative while others don't. That's my only concern. Bo Jackson had the degenerative hip and Terrell Davis had the degenerative knee. I haven't always had the best luck with doctors myself, so maybe that's why i'm so negative about the injury.

Aqua4Ever04
04-29-2006, 05:11 PM
You should learn to read an entire thread before sticking your foot in your mouth. If you read on you'd see he came around and only the injury worries him now. Eat your own advice.

Well when you pull up the draft forum and you see 4 threads saying, "Saban is dumb" or "I hate this pick!" It gets really annoying. I hate the lack of trust people have on this site and the criticism Jason Allen has already recieved.

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 05:16 PM
Well this is a forum where the sole purpose is for people to express their opinions or debate opinions, so everyone is entitled to their own, whether you agree or not. If you are sick of it, you could leave. I'm not being a hater here, just a concerned fan about an injury.

Marino13fanboy1
04-29-2006, 05:16 PM
Allen's a good pick......now we should be DONE drafting DB's so the focus in the 3rd and 4th can be LB's with maybe our 7th rounders being used on OL or WR/RB.

PSU Cane
04-29-2006, 05:20 PM
Will their be any good LBs left though by then? Saban might just go best available player, like he did last year.

Huffer
04-29-2006, 05:33 PM
Well when you pull up the draft forum and you see 4 threads saying, "Saban is dumb" or "I hate this pick!" It gets really annoying. I hate the lack of trust people have on this site and the criticism Jason Allen has already recieved.

Obviously you don't remember last year when Ronnie was off to a slow start. Saban was an idiot then as well. You have to remember that some people can't see past the end of thier own nose and if someone has a different thought process than them it's because they are an idiot. I guess some people don't realize that none of these picks are without risk and none come with a guarantee. You could criticize every pick no matter who is taken. That is why it is important to have a process of selecting a pick. We happen to have Saban in charge of our process..... I feel comfortable he has a plan and is sticking to it. I also find it hard to believe so many people will tear down our coaches players and team just because they do something they don't agree with. But you have to take the bad with the good here.

Boomer
04-29-2006, 07:15 PM
Look for Ninkovich in 3