PDA

View Full Version : Cote is on Crack



tonto_phin
04-30-2006, 12:32 AM
somehow taking the top player left on their draft board has been spun into "settling for a name on a list"

what a moron

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/14463307.htm

kpcane
04-30-2006, 12:36 AM
I'm sorry, but the way I read that article, Jason Cole thinks he knows more than Nick Saban does. Is there any writer in Miami worth reading? Get me outta here!

dlockz
04-30-2006, 12:42 AM
Who knows Cote may be right. JUst because we are fans and are happy to have Saban does not mean every decision he makes will be golden.

Dolfan11
04-30-2006, 12:47 AM
He's a f@cking idiot (Cote)! There's a reason the guy's a writer and not part of an NFL organization. I mean, you have 12 -13 guys your targeting and all but one are gone when you pick, so? You take the last guy you have rated higher than everyone else. Seems logical to me, but I don't think he can comprehend something like that.

tonto_phin
04-30-2006, 12:50 AM
Saban said before the draft that it was value over need

he stuck with that, that is not settling

that is sticking to a philosophy

Dolfan11
04-30-2006, 12:52 AM
I don't care who we brought in this offseason to our secondary. Allen will be productive and has the potential to be a star. No, not because he's our pick, the guy has the tools and the talent to be special.

tonto_phin
04-30-2006, 12:54 AM
if Saban had really thought he was settling, if saban had really thought that this was a worst case scenario, he would have traded down

Agent51
04-30-2006, 12:56 AM
Saban said before the draft that it was value over need

he stuck with that, that is not settling

that is sticking to a philosophy

Exactly. He bashed us for taking a better rated player just because we may need another position more. Too bad DB is a big need for us too, so it's not like we went and took a RB over DL/DT/LB because he was rated higher as a player. We got our highest rated available player AND we filled a need, seems like a pretty good choice to me, I'm "extremely, extremely pleased and happy" :lol:

dlockz
04-30-2006, 12:59 AM
Saban said before the draft that it was value over need

he stuck with that, that is not settling

that is sticking to a philosophy

Just trying to figure out how Allen is such great value at that pick. He may turn out great but its not like he fell. We needed a safety he took a safety so just how did we take value over need.? There are alot of safeties left in the draft that graded out fairly close to Allen. Watkins, Bing, Bullocks and Simpson. i can deal with the Allen pick I just dont like taking a guy that high coming off an injury that had him miss half the season. He has not played since that injury and a combine run means squat. Now many will bring up Culpepper now but rememebr we gave up a second round pick for an elite QB coming off injury.

tonto_phin
04-30-2006, 01:04 AM
its a value pick because :

- the guy was a top 10 talent hip injury not withstanding
- Saban has personal knowledge of his character
- DB is not our only great need
- Saban loves picks and chose not to trade down

dlockz
04-30-2006, 01:18 AM
its a value pick because :

- the guy was a top 10 talent hip injury not withstanding
- Saban has personal knowledge of his character
- DB is not our only great need
- Saban loves picks and chose not to trade down

So who in the top 10 was he a better player than?
He was considered to be a top 10 pick if he had came out in last year's draft.
Nobody touted him as a top 10 pick this year and nobody chose him in the top 10 this year. Hell, Matt Leinhart would have went #1 last year and he goes # 10 today.S was our biggest need by far since we have nothing close to a top level S and no other posiion on our team was weaker than S. I can deal with the pick and there were many worse picks like Hill before us but we took a guy who missed the last half of the season with a major hip injury.

tonto_phin
04-30-2006, 01:31 AM
we don't have a great OL, we don't have a great CB, we don't have a great DT, we are very thin/aging at LB and DE

its obvious that you don't like the pick, but your *** is not in the smasher if our first round pick fails

it reminds me of crybabies like Prisco who hates the Jet's picking DBrick cuz it aint sexy

I know a rushing OLB or a WR would have been sexier than a safety, but I really don't mind

dlockz
04-30-2006, 02:00 AM
we don't have a great OL, we don't have a great CB, we don't have a great DT, we are very thin/aging at LB and DE

its obvious that you don't like the pick, but your *** is not in the smasher if our first round pick fails

it reminds me of crybabies like Prisco who hates the Jet's picking DBrick cuz it aint sexy

I know a rushing OLB or a WR would have been sexier than a safety, but I really don't mind

I dont like picking any player that high in the first round coming off of injury. I don't understand the sexy analogy, I would have been happy with with Winston Justice OT. I think we should have traded the pick and got more players. There are too many players rated very close to him that are still in the draft.

Lets compare our needs at safety and other positons.
S- we do not have one player on our roster that has been a full time starter for a full season in the NFL at this position. We have Deke cooper, renaldo Hill, Yerimiah Bell and Tavaris Tillman. None of these guys are considered surefire starters in the NFL.

Ol- we dont have a great OL but our line is staying together for another year
Vernon carey(1st rounder) Damnion Mcintosh(last year's left tackle) LJ shelton(former 1st round pick and has started for a while), Jeno James( been our starter since we signed him) Rex Hadnot(Promising 3rd year plaer) Seth Mckinney(been our center for a few years not great, but has improved), Mike Pearson(former top 10 pick that has been a LT starter coming off from injury)
Wade Smith(Former starter for this team) not a great line but universes above our s unit. Justice would have made this unit look pretty good. Like him better than Carey.

Dt- We have Vonnie Holiday a former 1st rounder, played solid last year, Keith Traylor(old but some on this board seemed very happy with him.Manny Wright is a player we drafted last year to address at this position seems to have at least second round talent. Kevin Vickerson who was praised last year as asolid pick. Also we have zgonia and Carter who can play DT. Not a great unit but there were no Dt's left on board worth taking at that spot.

De- aging hmm we took a DE last year in the second Matt Roth, We have Bowens, Taylor and Carter who are older but all still good. Wright might also be able to play DE.

LB- We have two great starters Thomas and Crowder. We have two guys that have been starters Spragen and Hodge. A guy that has played well when called on Pope> we need a Young guy but its far from a unit that is long in tooth.

CB- We signed Allen to be our CB and he was a top pick who was a starter. We drfated danials last year and he started most of the year. Poole played well as a rookie and had to start at least a game and looked good.Goodman played alot for Deroit.

Safety has noone even close to being a stud or anyone in development. Our biggest need was safety, it wasn't close.

tonto_phin
04-30-2006, 02:04 AM
Ol- we dont have a great OL but our line is staying together for another year

Our biggest need was safety, it wasn't close.


you are contradicting yourself

dlockz
04-30-2006, 02:11 AM
you are contradicting yourself

How am I contradicting myself?. The more a line stays together the better it shoudl become if it has any talent. There is no stud on our line but we have talent. Our line sucked in 2004 because it was a totally new oline. Our line has many players that have started for us and many other teams.That can not be said of our safeties. Shelton, Carey,Mcintosh,James and Pearson could start for alot of teams in the NFL it would be hard to name any s on this team that is true of. I said our line is not great but it has potential to get better, I do think an infusion of a true stud like Justice would have helped.

tonto_phin
04-30-2006, 02:20 AM
there is some merit to your argument, but I still don't see our OL as being any more talented than our safeties

we also have great needs in our defensive front 7 because JT and Zach are quite long in the tooth

I think that if Wimbley had fallen to us then he would have been the highest rated guy and been taken despite the fact that he is not a safety

who should Saban have picked if he was going for value and not need?

tonto_phin
04-30-2006, 02:22 AM
Shelton, Carey,Mcintosh,James and Pearson could start for alot of teams in

change alot to a few

dlockz
04-30-2006, 02:40 AM
there is some merit to your argument, but I still don't see our OL as being any more talented than our safeties

we also have great needs in our defensive front 7 because JT and Zach are quite long in the tooth

I think that if Wimbley had fallen to us then he would have been the highest rated guy and been taken despite the fact that he is not a safety

who should Saban have picked if he was going for value and not need?

Hard to say< I think we wanted Bunkley. You may not agree that our oline is more talented than our safeties.But name one safety on our team that would definately start for almost any team he went to or any team for that matter.
I wanted us to trade down, but maybe we got crappy offers. Even Pittsburgh
trading thier third would have given us a solid draft. We could have taken WR-Jackson or Justice, then taken a safety in round three(Watkins,Simpson and Bing are not that less of safeties than Allen) Plus had an extra pick where we coudl have went DT,OL or LB.I'm ok with Allen, it was our biggest immediate need.It gave us one legitimate starting S. My biggest concern is he was injured and usually that drops a guy in draft. Now if we plan on playing Allen at CB I hate the pick because if you are going to take an injured db take the guy with the best skills Cromartie. I like the third round Wr but would rather have a combo of Jackson/Watkins,Bing<Simpson. than Allen/ .Hagins. Hell I hope we now take one of these guys still in the fourth.
Bing S
Watkins S
Simpson S
Jean Giles G
Mark Anderson DE/LB
Gabe Watson DT
Orlen Harris DT
Rodrigue Wright DT
Stanly Mclover DE
Demario Winter CB
Alan Zemetkis CB
Greg Eslinger C
Fred Matua G
Ryan callaghan T
Jonathon Scott T

I like Orlen harris best of those players.

dlockz
04-30-2006, 02:45 AM
change alot to a few

well Shelton has always been a starter, whereever he has went. Mcintosh was starter before we got him and could be a solid guard. Carey hopefully could be a starter for other teams at guard. Jeno James was a G on a superbowl Panther team. Pearson was the undisputed starter at Jacksonville before he got hurt. I'm sure these players could start for at least a third of all nfl teams at some position. Except through injury none of our safeties has been regarded as starters. I tell you a player that we had as a starter that would not start for anybody else. A hint he played QB and decided to take a backup job elsewhere.

Coral Reefer
04-30-2006, 03:25 AM
somehow taking the top player left on their draft board has been spun into "settling for a name on a list"

what a moron

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/14463307.htm

Reading any comments from Herald or Sun-Sentinel is a waste of time. These guys have proven time and time again that they will twist anything into some negative spin for nothing other than to cause controversy.

VanDolPhan
04-30-2006, 03:51 AM
So who in the top 10 was he a better player than?
He was considered to be a top 10 pick if he had came out in last year's draft.
Nobody touted him as a top 10 pick this year and nobody chose him in the top 10 this year.

Holy christ how can people be this blind when it's been stated plenty of times before, during and after the draft.

In every bloody write up about Allen it was stated "Top 10 pick but he's got that hip injury".

Hell even a simple look at NFL.com's draft analyzer has:


Gil Brandt: I don't think this is a reach. People were concerned about his hip, but otherwise he's a top-10 pick. I think they got great value. Saban tried to recruit him out of high school when he was the coach at LSU.



I said our line is not great but it has potential to get better, I do think an infusion of a true stud like Justice would have helped.

True stud? Justice is a raw prospect. He's got a lot of upside but there are character issues that dropped him from being top 10 all the way into the near mid 2nd round. People don't know if he's a right or a left tackle and even Saban came straight out and said they weren't really considering Justice and that's with Tim Davis his OL coach on the staff. Saban also stated that "Carey progressed very nicely last year". What this team needs is an interior upgrade. Hadnot makes too many mistakes (I'd only rate him as adequate at RG, center is a hole and Jeno's not getting any younger/cheaper. Max is looking very tasty to me in round 4 if the team can snag him.

jlfin
04-30-2006, 08:27 AM
Who knows Cote may be right. JUst because we are fans and are happy to have Saban does not mean every decision he makes will be golden.

On the other hand, what makes Cote an expert in analyzing college talent? Has he spent hours breaking down film, interviewing the players (and position coaches) and has he seen them up close at the combine/ private workouts? Or is he just like most of us, relying solely on published reports and the opinions of other self proclaimed draft experts?

Motion
04-30-2006, 09:46 AM
Just trying to figure out how Allen is such great value at that pick. He may turn out great but its not like he fell. We needed a safety he took a safety so just how did we take value over need.? There are alot of safeties left in the draft that graded out fairly close to Allen. Watkins, Bing, Bullocks and Simpson. i can deal with the Allen pick I just dont like taking a guy that high coming off an injury that had him miss half the season. He has not played since that injury and a combine run means squat. Now many will bring up Culpepper now but rememebr we gave up a second round pick for an elite QB coming off injury.

You gotta be kidding me! What grading system are you using? Bing isn't half the DB Allen is.

zodiak
04-30-2006, 10:34 AM
I think its reasonable for some to critizie the pick...I for one was very disappointed I wanted Manny Lawson(the rumors that Saban rated him as a 2nd rnd pick must have been true) or a front 7 player.

I believe Saban may have selected Wimbley or Bunkley had they fallen,
if you truly look at the make up of the secondary the Safty position is the one where their is no clear definition in terms of starters.
At corner its going to be either W.Allen & Daniels or W.Allen & W.Poole
I believe J.Allen will play FS and Tillman & Cooper will compete for the SS unless another player is drafted that can play S.