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View Full Version : ESPN Draft Guide, Derek Hagan= Torry Holt



Phins28
05-02-2006, 07:10 PM
This is a player report from ESPN NFL Draft Guide:

Derek Hagan
Arizona State

Best Trait: size

Positives: Projects as a high-quality No. 2 possession type. Good size and bulk, with excellent feet and burst.
Runs smooth routes, with a sixth sense to get separation in man coverage. Knows how to find soft spots against zones.
Plucks without deceleting. Protects the ball. Shows the ability to catch on the run without losing much in transition.
Shifty and has excellent vision after the catch. Makes sharp cuts and explodes out of brakes. A high-character player and good leader.

Worst Trait: Speed

Negatives: Not a burner and lacks a second gear to blow past defenders. Lacks consistency, though he drops far fewer balls than he used to. Focus wavers at times and he has tendency to fight the ball. Neither aggressive nor confident going over the middle. Struggles to release against press coverage.

Equivalent NFL Player: Torry Holt

Dors156
05-02-2006, 07:19 PM
awsome.its about time we can get a steal at wr other than chambers

Lappy
05-02-2006, 07:52 PM
I love this Pick up, we'er very lucky to have this guy.

Alex44
05-02-2006, 07:53 PM
There isnt a WR equivalent to Torry Holt in the NFL, he is the most complete WR since Jerry Rice

Hagan actually reminds me of David Boston minus the steroids and Injuries

Silverphin
05-02-2006, 08:02 PM
There isnt a WR equivalent to Torry Holt in the NFL, he is the most complete WR since Jerry Rice

Hagan actually reminds me of David Boston minus the steroids and Injuries

They say Torry Holt, you say Boston minus the steroids and injuries. For some reason, they translate into the same thing to me: great pick!

dominizzo
05-02-2006, 08:23 PM
Derek HAgae the best WR to get chosen will have the best numbers

finfanlover
05-02-2006, 08:47 PM
I know it doesn't mean much but he is the #1 wide out on ncaa 2006.

Phins28
05-02-2006, 09:10 PM
I know it doesn't mean much but he is the #1 wide out on ncaa 2006.

And Jason Allen is the # 1 cornerback in NCAA 2006

bullseyeguy
05-02-2006, 09:44 PM
I guess we now know how Saban makes his picks.....

Nappy Roots
05-02-2006, 10:27 PM
what the? Torry Holt? the WR with the softest and best hands in the NFL, which is Hagans flaw?

:sidelol:

LIQUID24
05-02-2006, 11:06 PM
what the? Torry Holt? the WR with the softest and best hands in the NFL, which is Hagans flaw?

:sidelol:

His hands aren't really a flaw. They may not be as good as Holt's hands, but they aren't bad either. The Senior Bowl was an anomaly.

Nappy Roots
05-02-2006, 11:24 PM
His hands aren't really a flaw. They may not be as good as Holt's hands, but they aren't bad either. The Senior Bowl was an anomaly.


no but they are flawed. hes not a WR that catches the ball great with his hands. he uses his body to catch the ball.

Holt NEVER uses his body. him catching the football is masterful to watch.

Mike13
05-02-2006, 11:25 PM
what the? Torry Holt? the WR with the softest and best hands in the NFL, which is Hagans flaw?

:sidelol:

Hagan has good hands I don't know what you are talking about, maybe you shouldn't just base your opinions on one bad game.

Nappy Roots
05-02-2006, 11:30 PM
Hagan has good hands I don't know what you are talking about, maybe you shouldn't just base your opinions on one bad game.


:rolleyes2

Roman529
05-02-2006, 11:33 PM
Hagan = Rod Smith :tongue:

dominizzo
05-03-2006, 12:01 AM
Id be happpy with a Rod Smith comparasion

TotoreMexico
05-03-2006, 01:07 AM
Sweet! thanks for the info

dlockz
05-03-2006, 02:18 AM
I love when they say things like his speed is a negative. he runs a sub 4.5 forty and he is slow lol. That is not much slower than Chambers or Allen.

Alex44
05-03-2006, 02:20 AM
They say Torry Holt, you say Boston minus the steroids and injuries. For some reason, they translate into the same thing to me: great pick!

Oh I love the pick, I just dont think Holt was a good comparison :D

He seems to be a decently sized guy who can run after the catch well, break tacklesm and have pretty good speed, like Boston.

Nappy Roots
05-03-2006, 02:23 AM
I love when they say things like his speed is a negative. he runs a sub 4.5 forty and he is slow lol. That is not much slower than Chambers or Allen.


40 doesnt always tell the story. hes nowhere near as explosive as chambers.

dlockz
05-03-2006, 04:12 AM
40 doesnt always tell the story. hes nowhere near as explosive as chambers.

Just saying he is far from slow and his initial burst is pretty good. I love when they talk about a lineman's forty. How often does a lineman run 40 yards?.

Springveldt
05-03-2006, 04:26 AM
This is a player report from ESPN NFL Draft Guide:
Derek Hagan
Arizona State
Positives: Projects as a high-quality No. 2 possession type.
Negatives: Not a burner and lacks a second gear to blow past defenders.
Equivalent NFL Player: Torry Holt
What the hell?!?! When did Torry Holt become a high quality No.2 possession receiver that lacks a second gear.
Totally dumb comparison.

dolfanmark
05-03-2006, 07:26 AM
The Sporting News Draft Guide also lists comparable NFL players for prospects. For Hagan, they compare him to TJ Houshmandzadeh.

Dolfan11
05-03-2006, 09:56 AM
Can't wait to see him play in a Dolphins uniform.

finfan54
05-03-2006, 10:22 AM
His worst trait is speed? I thought he ran a 4.45 or something. I guess that is a good thing. They were looking for something i guess. His takeoff at the LOS is the thing i notice. He runs nice routes. Thats one biggie down. To me, his hands have been questionable, but that may be more to combine style play and Senior bowl where he is not used to his guys throwing to him ect. and the combine is very misleading to me. You simply measure athleticism and football brains and character at the combine.

I believe CC had questionable hands right? Well, he did drop balls this past year. He also made a huge comeback. Now he will have someone next to him besides Booker to make things very nice and wide open. Daunte is going to have some weapons at his disposal.

finfan54
05-03-2006, 10:29 AM
What the hell?!?! When did Torry Holt become a high quality No.2 possession receiver that lacks a second gear.
Totally dumb comparison.

I think CK should put his resume into them. Of course, he would have to tell them he is a Bills fan or something and not a Dolphins fan or they wouldnt hire him.

dolfanmark
05-03-2006, 02:18 PM
His worst trait is speed? I thought he ran a 4.45 or something.

That is the knock on him. He doesn't play as fast as his 40-time would indicate. They say he has trouble separating from DBs on deep routes. He surprised a lot of people with his time at the combine.

Marinomania
05-03-2006, 04:52 PM
Hagan=Torry Holt? Not even close. Some of us are comparing Hagan to a sure-fire HOF player before he plays a down in the NFL? We'll be lucky if he makes it as our #3 right off the bat, never mind becoming the next Holt.

Shula Come Back!
05-03-2006, 07:27 PM
Good article!!!

newlownorder
05-03-2006, 07:42 PM
Id be happpy with a Rod Smith comparasion

I actually agree with the Rod Smith comparison. I actually saw Aromashodu as more of a Holt player than Hagan.

BSQX4
05-04-2006, 02:29 AM
To make this Hagan pick even better he's never had the likes of Culpepper throwing him the rock. Just imagine. For a rook this guy is super-cagey and very football smart. He will find the soft spots in the zone helping us move the chains, he also will be dangerous in the redzone, he also will go deep ofetn enough to piss off the other team and that's just too bad. I just think the dude is dangerous as all hell. Good for The Miami and tough for anybody trying to stop our team. We will be super tough. What's the use of being modest?

tylerdolphin
05-04-2006, 08:11 AM
I fail to see the Torry Holt in him.

popularwar
05-04-2006, 09:08 AM
Torry Holt is my favorite non-Dolphin. If we got a guy like him in the third round, I'm going to be doing cartwheels.

GRT8
05-04-2006, 02:24 PM
THIS IS WHAT I CALL A SCOUTS EYE

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draft/prospect?contentId=5526560

Der Philth
05-04-2006, 08:31 PM
I immediately thought of Keyshawn when I saw Hagan's highlights.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
05-04-2006, 11:46 PM
he has the exact same body as rod smith. i bet they have the same armspan, too. very similar players. i don't get how anyone can see keyshawn in him at all.

Roman529
05-05-2006, 01:53 AM
he has the exact same body as rod smith. i bet they have the same armspan, too. very similar players. i don't get how anyone can see keyshawn in him at all.

You tell em UF!!! He is very similar to Rod Smith and I have seen them both play many times in person. Rod Smith has had a long career in Denver because he works incredible hard, just like Jerry Rice did. I think if Hagan puts in the same type of workouts as Rice and Smith have, we could have Hagan for many years. :tongue:

Dolfan2788
05-05-2006, 11:34 PM
Apparently he watches copius amounts of film and has great game preparation.

I don't see the Torry Holt comparison, Holt is faster (game wise) and has better hands. I definitely see the Rod Smith comparison, very alike.
And to get a Rod Smith in the 3rd round is an incredible pick up if he lives up to the potential.

Al13
05-06-2006, 05:24 AM
i just don´t understand how he can be called slow, when he ran a 4.42 at the combine

Boomer
05-06-2006, 06:40 PM
There is no Torry Holt comparison whatsoever, IMO. Torry is much faster, much quicker in his hips, has better hands, better RAC ability, etc.

Whilst there are similarities to Rod Smith, especially in body type, the differences are a little more than subtle, but coachable nonetheless. Rod is one of the games finest blockers at the WR spot. Along with Hines Ward, they are probably the two finest exponents in the game. Hagan is a good downfield blocker, but what he doesn't do well is be consistent in his effort. He doesn't finish blocks and when you watch him, he'll occasionally come off a block and allow the defender back into the play.

Rod runs brilliant routes. I mean flat out brilliant. There is no wasted motion, he never gives any indications at the LOS as to what he's doing, he's strong in the upper body to fight off the jam. You can tell what a good route runner he is by the fact that he isn't blessed with great speed, but he consistently gets seperation from even the best corners. Watch his hips and his feet and the way he works a corner, especially on run downs, where he sets his man up for later in the game. Derek tends to get lazy in his routes, which Charlie Baggett will need to work on. You can at times see exactly where he's going. It's almost an enthusiasm thing rather than anything else. The guy flat out wants the ball and that's to be commended. But it's different rounding off a route against a redshirt freshman corner than it is when you're trying to do it on Rashean Mathis or Brian Kelly or Champ Bailey. Watch him and he tends to move his body - often turn his shoulders slightly - when he's a step or two away from coming out of his route. The avid film watcher that he is, should work that off his game quickly in the pros.

Where he does have an advantage is, as I mentioned in my draft review, is how quick off the line of scrimmage he is. When studying the Combine numbers, he had the quickest 10 yard split of any wide receiver in Indy (1.52) and a 4.46 forty time, dispelling any fears of elite speed. In fact only Georgia cornerback Tim Jennings, our own Jason Allen, and running backs Andre Hall, Joseph Addai and Jerrious Norwood had a quicker 10 yard splits than Hagan amongst the entire 330+ players that worked out. (Jonathan Joseph and Gerrick McPherson tied the 1.52). If he can iron out the inconsistencies in his route running, then he's going to become much more of a weapon.

And the final thing about Smith and how Hagan needs to work towards playing like him is in his hands. Rod is a natural pass catcher. I'm not sure Derek is a natural pass catcher. I know he had the high catch percentage at ASU, but he tends to position his hands in a quite unorthodox manner at times. CK described it as trying to catch a ball using 2 tennis rackets and you can see that sometimes. When he goes up for a ball, then he tends to position his hands correctly and get the ball at it's highest point, but when he's running and catching, the hands look more awkward.

Where they are similar is in their passion, their work ethic, the ability to work back for the ball and, despite reports to the contrary, their ability to get down the field - Hagan's catches of , 80, 67, 49, 50, 47, 79, 45, 47, 46, 59 and 45 yards during his time at ASU are testament to that and Smith, not known for deep speed, has a number of long touchdown catches with the Broncos.

Pocoloco
05-06-2006, 06:58 PM
i just don´t understand how he can be called slow, when he ran a 4.42 at the combine

Fast 40 times are impressive, but not the most important thing when scouting a player if you ask me. If the biggest knock on Hagan is his 40 time, then we're in excellent shape. After all, how many times in a football game does a player come in with totally fresh legs, and run in a straight line as fast as he can with his head down? Never.
Give me a receiver that can run routes all day, and still turn it on late in the fourth quarter against some DB that's sucking wind even though he posted a 4.3 in the combine this spring. A mix of speed and endurance is far more important than speed alone.

Mile High Fin
06-24-2009, 01:13 PM
no but they are flawed. hes not a WR that catches the ball great with his hands. he uses his body to catch the ball.

Holt NEVER uses his body. him catching the football is masterful to watch.

Good call....

I like looking at old threads of drafts, because it reminds me of how unpredictable it can be, and keeps my expectations in check.

hemidemon
06-26-2009, 12:43 PM
Good find. When I started reading this I was like, "What the..." then I looked at the date. Your point is well made.

Ricky4Life
06-28-2009, 06:03 PM
I hated this pick when it happened. My brother was excited since he is a ASU/ Cardinals fan but I hated it and I never let him live it down how bad Hagan is.