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View Full Version : Popular NY Rap DJ Fired after sexual threats against rival's daughter



Celtkin
05-11-2006, 10:50 AM
I'll tell you...if you are going to act like an as*, don't do it on the public airwaves:


http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif



A popular radio personality was fired yesterday after making a series of shockingly ugly, racist and violent on-air remarks - including a threat to sexually molest the young daughter of a rival deejay.

The comments by Troi Torain - better known to his listeners on top-rated hip-hop station Power 105 (WWPR-FM) as DJ Star - were so over the top that he could be in hot water with the FCC and the Manhattan district attorney's office.

Torain offered listeners $500 to tell him where the daughter of nemesis DJ Envy, of Hot 97, went to school.

"Yes, I disrespect your seed," Torain ranted. "If you didn't hear me, I said I would like to do an R. Kelly on your seed. On your little baby girl."

Torain, 42, described in graphic detail what he meant by the reference to the R&B singer Kelly, who allegedly committed an unnatural act on an underage girl, a stunt captured on a widely circulated video.

Torain, who warned in his diatribe that he carries a gun, also called the wife of DJ Envy, whose real name is Rashawn Casey, a "whore," a "lo mein eater" and far worse anti-Asian slurs.

You can read the rest here: http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/416733p-352005c.html

PassRush
05-11-2006, 11:51 AM
Jesus... First a foot fetish thread, now a rape/molestation/urination/murder thread. What is the world coming to?

Pagan
05-11-2006, 12:23 PM
Lots of publicity here about this.

They're predicting in NY that if he doesn't publically apologize, this ends up in a shooting. :shakeno:

Celtkin
05-11-2006, 12:32 PM
Lots of publicity here about this.

They're predicting in NY that if he doesn't publically apologize, this ends up in a shooting. :shakeno:

At this rate, if rappers keep feeding on each other at this rate, they will be extinct by years end.

lazareth
05-11-2006, 12:43 PM
Lots of publicity here about this.

They're predicting in NY that if he doesn't publically apologize, this ends up in a shooting. :shakeno:
i doubt a simple apology would stop bullets from flying

Coral Reefer
05-11-2006, 12:47 PM
At this rate, if rappers keep feeding on each other at this rate, they will be extinct by years end.


What a loss that would be.....

Celtkin
05-11-2006, 12:48 PM
What a loss that would be.....

You read my mind.... :lol:

tucker
05-11-2006, 12:49 PM
so is dj envy gonna be doing the shooting at starr? lol..he's a fat slob..he wont be doing anything...its radio personalities for christ sake.. his wife is a whore tho..and i laughed

Celtkin
05-11-2006, 04:34 PM
so is dj envy gonna be doing the shooting at starr? lol..he's a fat slob..he wont be doing anything...its radio personalities for christ sake.. his wife is a whore tho..and i laughed

I don't live in the NY area so I don't know what caused this situation to spin out of control but it would seem to me that at least one of the DJs involved overreacted just a tad.

Agent51
05-11-2006, 04:40 PM
I don't live in the NY area so I don't know what caused this situation to spin out of control but it would seem to me that at least one of the DJs involved overreacted just a tad.

Could it be the one who threatened to give the other's daughter a golden shower then rape her and then shoot him :confused2

Nappy Roots
05-11-2006, 04:46 PM
At this rate, if rappers keep feeding on each other at this rate, they will be extinct by years end.


This guy isnt a rapper.

Nappy Roots
05-11-2006, 04:47 PM
What a loss that would be.....


AMAZING!

more bull**** rap bashing! WOW! I thought id never see it!

Agent51
05-11-2006, 04:47 PM
This guy isnt a rapper.

Dude, I read that post, and a few others in this thread, and INSTANTLY was like "where's Nappy? He's gonna have something to say about this". It took you ahile though, you're slackin, lol.

Nappy Roots
05-11-2006, 04:52 PM
Dude, I read that post, and a few others in this thread, and INSTANTLY was like "where's Nappy? He's gonna have something to say about this". It took you ahile though, you're slackin, lol.


:lol:


i knew someone was gonna be like "damn he does this everytime" when they read my posts.

Agent51
05-11-2006, 04:55 PM
:lol:


i knew someone was gonna be like "damn he does this everytime" when they read my posts.

Nah, t's not like that, you're just the guy that stands up to everyone when they generalize rappers with shootings and stuff, so I was waiting for it this time, a few poeple gave you PERFECT targets.

Megatron
05-11-2006, 04:55 PM
So what's your take Nappy? Is this guy as much of an idiot as he sounds?

Nappy Roots
05-11-2006, 04:56 PM
So what's your take Nappy? Is this guy as much of an idiot as he sounds?


yea, he should prolly be shot.

Celtkin
05-11-2006, 05:12 PM
This guy isnt a rapper.
You're right, bro. I should have said 'thug'. The two terms are not equal.

Sorry and thanks for pointing it out. :wink:

Celtkin
05-11-2006, 05:14 PM
Could it be the one who threatened to give the other's daughter a golden shower then rape her and then shoot him :confused2

Bingo :lol:

Timmy54
05-11-2006, 05:42 PM
anyone that threatens to rape a persons daughter should be shot. You got a beef, take it up with him, leave the kids out of it. Damn it is worse than high school cause now they are packing heat.

Scrap
05-11-2006, 05:50 PM
I have nothing good to say about this guy. So just insert something bad into your imagination, and credit me for it.

Muck
05-11-2006, 07:02 PM
Wow, helluva guy.

Celtkin
05-11-2006, 07:04 PM
Wow, helluva guy.

It's enough to make any mom proud...:lol:

Silverphin
05-11-2006, 07:16 PM
I heard about that today in South Florida's 99 Jamz.

Does anybody know how this **** started?

FinFan72
05-11-2006, 07:19 PM
What a loss that would be.....
:sidelol:

Celtkin
05-11-2006, 07:26 PM
I heard about that today in South Florida's 99 Jamz.

Does anybody know how this **** started?

Pegan probably has more info about why this all started. He lives in that market. The article was not specific except to say this:


Rondell Conway, associate music editor for Vibe magazine, said Torain's comments are shock radio theater gone amok.


"He is trying to fill the void left by Howard Stern," Conway said. "He wants to show that he'll say anything, no matter how outrageous."


I think that is probably an overly simplistic analysis but it does make sense why he may have pushed it so far on the air.

Coral Reefer
05-11-2006, 10:52 PM
AMAZING!

more bull**** rap bashing! WOW! I thought id never see it!


:lol:

Their actions define them.
I don't make them act like bafoons.
Just pointing out the obvious.

Coral Reefer
05-11-2006, 10:54 PM
This guy isnt a rapper.

He isn't a rapper but a DJ for a hip hop station.
He is part of the rap scene is he not?
Not to mention he's following the rap shtick to a tee with his comments.

splitting hairs. :rolleyes:

King Felix
05-11-2006, 11:29 PM
this reminds me when ja started talkin bout hayley

Roman529
05-11-2006, 11:37 PM
Just another reason why I don't listen to rap.

Nappy Roots
05-11-2006, 11:56 PM
Just another reason why I don't listen to rap.


yea because a DJ for the genere is dumb

:rolleyes2


riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!!!!!!!

Nappy Roots
05-11-2006, 11:57 PM
:lol:

Their actions define them.
I don't make them act like bafoons.
Just pointing out the obvious.


oh right. please enlighten us on their actions.

since your such a smart guy, please tell us how rappers act like "BAFOONS"

Nappy Roots
05-11-2006, 11:58 PM
He isn't a rapper but a DJ for a hip hop station.
He is part of the rap scene is he not?
Not to mention he's following the rap shtick to a tee with his comments.

splitting hairs. :rolleyes:


is he a rapper?

does he rap?


THEN HE IS NOT A RAPPER!


:shakeno:


gezz, for someone that thinks hes smart, you awfuling .....

King Felix
05-12-2006, 12:18 AM
nice posts nappy

Nappy Roots
05-12-2006, 12:20 AM
nice posts nappy


please dont egg him on

Coral Reefer
05-12-2006, 01:05 AM
oh right. please enlighten us on their actions.

since your such a smart guy, please tell us how rappers act like "BAFOONS"


I know you defend rap to the ends of the earth. Dosen't mean you have to be blind to what a very large segment of rappers represent.

It's funny because I've glanced through your rap thread and you guys go on and on about violent fueds between rappers and revel in the militant lyrics.

Yet when there's a thread calling it out for exactly what it is you go full bore to say how unfair it is that rap is "stereotyped" for the exact things ya'll talking up on a daily basis.

Give it a rest.
If you love it that's your deal.
Don't be a closet gangsta, be proud of it dawg and stop making excuses.

Nappy Roots
05-12-2006, 01:07 AM
I know you Nappy and I know you defend rap to the ends of the earth. Dosen't mean you have to be blind to what a very large segment of rappers represent.

It's funny because I've glanced through your rap thread and you guys go on and on about violent fueds between rappers and revel in the militant lyrics.

Yet when there's a thread calling it out for exactly what it is you go full bore to say how unfair it is that rap is "stereotyped" for the exact things your talking up on a daily basis.


its called battle rap. they dont go shooting each other in real life(obviously, as they are all still alive), like most of you would love to believe.

im still waiting why rappers act like 'bafoons"

Coral Reefer
05-12-2006, 01:31 AM
its called battle rap. they dont go shooting each other in real life(obviously, as they are all still alive), like most of you would love to believe.

im still waiting why rappers act like 'bafoons"

Whatever, I can't believe I actually have to reference you to a few of the hundreds of links to stories documenting violence involving rappers, their entourages, promoters and the immense levels of violence at rap events.

Keep kidding yourself.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05063/466156.stm

http://www.rapnews.net/Topics/Shootings/

http://www.southflorida.com/music/sfl-csuge29aug29,0,4969079.story

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0502062hot1.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/330930p-282853c.html

These are just a handful of events to reference out of MANY.

Like I said before, if you like rap thats great but don't try to make excuses for what it is.

Nappy Roots
05-12-2006, 01:41 AM
Whatever, I can't believe I actually have to reference you to a few of the hundreds of links to stories documenting violence involving rappers, their entourages, promoters and the immense levels of violence at rap events.

Keep kidding yourself.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05063/466156.stm

http://www.rapnews.net/Topics/Shootings/

http://www.southflorida.com/music/sfl-csuge29aug29,0,4969079.story

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0502062hot1.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/330930p-282853c.html

These are just a handful of events to reference out of MANY.

Like I said before, if you like rap thats great but don't try to make excuses for what it is.




:rolleyes2


WOW! rappers are so violent!

in all those articles. 1 rapper pulled a trigger to kill someone, and he was killed himself...

lets try again.






http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140955,00.html


http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/rock/violence.shtml

Scrap
05-12-2006, 06:49 AM
This pisses me off:

A local news station here in Richmond interviewed someone from the local NAACP chapter. He had a conspiracy theory blaming white people for the whole thing. Somehow or another that DJ was set up.That crap's getting old. This was during the 5:30am showing of the news this morning. During the 6:30am broadcast, they didn't include that interview. I search their website....nothing.

The DJ made those stupid comments all by himself.

Pagan
05-12-2006, 06:51 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140955,00.html


http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/rock/violence.shtml
Okay, so now you dragged me into this by dragging metal into it...really reaching too. Allow me to debunk.

The first article you posted was of a mentally unbalanced fan who killed a musician because he thought the man was stealing the songs he wrote. Not the same as the rappers you so vehemently defend.

This is one instance. ONE. I've personally been to close to 300 concerts in my life, and I've NEVER seen one hint of violence. This is in New York, and at metal shows. Think rap could have 300 straight shows without violence?

I'll bet you my LIFETIME worth of paychecks that it can't.

Name me one instance of a rock & roll or metal musician killing another in some ******* "East Coast vs. West Coast" feud.

Name me one band that attacked or killed another due to being "dissed" in one of their songs. (Name me one band that is juvenile enough to have to waste songs on their albums "dissing" another, for that matter. :lol: )

Not the same, but GOOD try Nappy! Keep digging, maybe you'll find an article that's similar to what rappers do to each other.....maybe.

Metal musicians gather together every year at the NAMM festival to promote and display new gear. What do you think would happen if a large - and I mean LARGE, NAMM is HUGE - group of rappers got together under one roof?

Your second article is a JOKE. First of all it's on a religious website. We all know that organized religion has had a hair up its *** over rock music since day one, so it's SLIGHTLY biased now, innit?

Second, it speaks of things that were done - again - by FANS. Not by the artists thmeselves. And it speaks of a few of them. The instances are few and far between. No rock artist has ever killed another. No rock artist has ever SHOT another. None. Nada. Zilch. You're trying to blow smoke up our *****....and failing miserably. If you want to post links to violence associated with musical genres, I could be here for DAYS posting links to rap violence.

Yes, some metal lyrics speak of violence. What the article fails to point out is that most of them are written in the third person. They're not talking about how bad-*** they are, or how much "street cred" they have cause they've been shot 8 times. They're singing about either historical figures or events, or putting themselves in the position of a serial killer, rapist, etc. and singing from their point of view. It's fiction.

If you use that logic, you better go out and round up all those horror movie directors. I mean hell....LOOK at the bloodshed! Then again, I can't recall Wes Craven ever wanting to pop a cap into George Romero. Are you getting the picture yet?

I see Iron Maiden mentioned. Funny, the author of that article brings up Maiden's "mascot" Eddie (can't even spell it right :rolleyes: ) and say he "kills with great delight". Really now? I've been to about 25 Maiden shows over the years, and I've yet to see or read about Eddie killing anyone, In fact, on the album "The Number of the Beast" He's actually portrayed as kicking the devil's ***.

And I also see the lame attempt to say that Ozzy's song "Suicide Solution" advocates suicide. This has been done a MILLION times in tha past, and was even brought to trial cause some dumb kid decided to kill himself while listening to Ozzy. If any fool toook 5 minutes to read the lyrics, he'd see that Ozzy is singing about how alcohol will kill you. That alcohol is a suicide "solution". Solution meaning liquid.

But once again, where does this article point out any rock or metal musicians killing each other? Where's the gunfire?

You're grasping at straws Nappy. Like someone else said, you love rap. That's great, and power to you...but stop being an ostrich with your head in the sand.

There's never been a genre of music that has been associated with so much violence as rap. Love the music all you want, but you're crying wolf if you think that everyone's gunna believe that this is all some sort of misconception.

Scrap
05-12-2006, 07:03 AM
Great post Pagan....couldn't be further from the truth....and I do like rap.

Pagan
05-12-2006, 07:23 AM
I just hate when people point fingers instead of dealing with the facts.

I mean, I love metal & rock but when Great White started that fire and killed 100 people by using pyro in a small club, I was the first to place the blame directly on the band for not having common sense.

@@@
05-12-2006, 07:31 AM
I'll tell you...if you are going to act like an as*, don't do it on the public airwaves: I think that pretty much covers it, what a clown :shakeno:

Celtkin
05-12-2006, 08:38 AM
I just hate when people point fingers instead of dealing with the facts.

It's easier that way...no work involved :lol:

I know I was guilty earlier of generalizing. There are good and bad people representing all genres of music. Rappers are most in the news of late because a few of their ranks have made very public displays of violence but that certainly is not what most rappers would do.

The subset of rap that is composed of the thugs is who we see as the troublemakers and the ones we should be critical of...not the entire genre of hip hop and rap.

P.S. I don't know how hip hop and rap differ or if they are just different terms for the same style of music. I would appreciate a quick lesson in the terms if someone can provide it.

Agent51
05-12-2006, 09:17 AM
:jt0323:

OK, here's my input. I personally don't listen to much rap. I hear it all the time at work (a club) and on the radio or the CDs of friends I hang with that do like it. There are some songs I like, but as a whole, I don't care for it. That being said, I have no particular bias towards the genre, HOWEVER, it DOES seem to me like of all the genres of music, rap has the most violent history, and violence associated with it. Now Nappy, I am not trying to start an arguement with you here, so just hear me out. I KNOW that a lot of the violence and actions that is portrayed in their music and that may happen at shows or surrounding them is that way BECAUSE of there upbringing, I completely get that. The only problem I really have with your particular arguements is that you don't really acknoweldge their responsibility for it. What I mean is, you have explained to us all before about the lyrics and the rappers being that way because that's all they know, and because of their upbringing, which is certianly a valid point, but then at the same time you turn around and say it's not rappers, or rap, that are violent or causing the violence, but it is. You kind of explain it yourself when talking about their upbringing. It's a valid point, and what I think you fail to see is that everyone (or most people, like Pagan for example, who writes informative posts and doesn't just say "rap sucks so they kill people" or whatever) isn't bashing rap persay, they are just saying that violence is associated with it. You CAN'T deny that, you have explained before that it is due to their upbringing, and you are completely right, but that, in essence, is what everyone else means.

Hell, I listen to Punk music, and we go to shows and we go into the pit and beat the hell out of each other, but the second someone falls in that pit everyone reaches down, picks the person up, and they go right back to slamming around. I'm not sure if yoyu've ever been to a punk show, but let me tell you, some pits are VIOLENT, but in the end everyone still looks out for everyone. You get punched in the face and kicked in the head and stuff but the second someone goes down they are helped right up. I was at a show a few months ago in LA and I got my lip split open by some idot kid basically swinging fists in the air and he nailed me, I was pissed, but a few minutes later I saw the kid slip and fall and I was one of the first people to help him up.

The point I'm trying to make is, while music iself can be high energy, or violent, in the end, in every other genre, when the show ends, people stop slamming around and pick everyone up and all go have a beer or party and talk about how awesome the show was, but with rap it's like the fantasy never ends. There is no set time to just go wild and then stop, it's like 24/7 violence, and again, like you said, its due to their upbringing, which nobody is disputing, but with your arguements you blame it on where they are from in one sentance, but in the next you say it isn't RAPPERS being violent, so it kind of makes no sense.

Also, to be fair to BOTH parties here (Nappy AND Pagan), since I like ya both and enjoy the convos I have with you, here are two examples to go with BOTH of your points:

Well first, to Nappy. I read awhile back in an arguement you were having with Budd (soon after the Proof shooting) where you were like "When was the last time a RAPPER shot somebody?" And Budd completely missed it, but the answer would be PROOF. He shot the guy first, thus causing him to be shot by the bouncer, and proof is a rapper, and the guy he shot is now dead, so there is an example of a rapper shooting, and killing, someone (I know it's only one instance, but it still answers your question of when the last time a rapper shot someone)

Now Pagan. I noticed you said "metal musicians don't kill each other". HOWEVER, I remember reading awhile ago that some "death metal" band member KILLED another member of the band and ate his brain :lol:. I can't for the life of me remmber the bands name, or I'd link an article, but maybe you know their name? Anyway, I knopw this doesn't happen all the time, or like EVER, haha, but it is only fair to Nappy to point out that it HAS hapened in the genre you are defending too.

All in all though Nappy, it is great that you are so passionate about rap, and nobody is downing you for that, if anything it's admirable that you stand up so strongly for what you believe in, and seem to be the only one (I notice tons of people post in the Hip Hop thread, yet non of them help you defend it when it gets heated) BUT, to say that it is all misunderstood and everything doesn't really work. We UNDERSTAND that they are from the streets and thats what they know, and that is the POINT of many of these arguements, that is the reason rap IS the most violent genre, by far, because for them it's NOT just music, it IS their lifestyle and way of life, and that way of life is the streets, which are violent.

Rap isn't a way of life in terms of being a metal-head like Pagan or something like that. And no offense to Pagan, while I have no doubt you live, breathe, eat, and bleed metal, TECHNICALLY it isn't your "way of life" because you don't live everyday what all the lyrics are about. What I mean by that is Metal has such a broad spectrum of lyrics that ALL of them don't apply to every fan, and also those fans don't hear a lyric about, say, worshipping the devil (I'm sorry to make such a cliche example here, I'm just trying to use the most extreme example I can think of) and drinking blood of beasts or whatever and they run out and drink blood and stuff ya know? However with rap, the lyrics are more a narrative of their life and backrounds, and they DO live that stuff everyday, such as the shootings and the drug dealing and the robberies (again, to Nappy this time, sorry to be so cliche, but it's the most extreme example), or they did growing up and it's why they sing about it now, and a majority if it's fanbase IS from that backround. So while it may not neccessarily be rap itself that STARTED the violence (most of the pioneers of rap WEREN'T singing about violence), it is performed by the people who come from bacrounds of violence, and now they sing about violence etc, so you can see where the copmparisons come from.

Pagan
05-12-2006, 09:39 AM
Now Pagan. I noticed you said "metal musicians don't kill each other". HOWEVER, I remember reading awhile ago that some "death metal" band member KILLED another member of the band and ate his brain :lol:. I can't for the life of me remmber the bands name, or I'd link an article, but maybe you know their name? Anyway, I knopw this doesn't happen all the time, or like EVER, haha, but it is only fair to Nappy to point out that it HAS hapened in the genre you are defending too.
I heard about this also, but you have it wrong. The singer of a band called Mayhem killed himself, and the idiots in his band used a photo of his suicide as their album cover. Trust me, I will not defend these morons. :rolleyes: :lol:


And no offense to Pagan, while I have no doubt you live, breathe, eat, and bleed metal, TECHNICALLY it isn't your "way of life" because you don't live everyday what all the lyrics are about. What I mean by that is Metal has such a broad spectrum of lyrics that ALL of them don't apply to every fan, and also those fans don't hear a lyric about, say, worshipping the devil (I'm sorry to make such a cliche example here, I'm just trying to use the most extreme example I can think of) and drinking blood of beasts or whatever and they run out and drink blood and stuff ya know?
No offense taken.

First of all I don't eat sleep and breathe metal. I did when I was younger, but now I have to get along with society. :lol:

Back then it definitely was a way of life. Just not to the extreme that rap takes it. We had our way of thinking and screw everyone else's. However, you're correct about the lyrics. Metal is meant to be a form of escape from the real world. It's more fantasy based, and therefore the fans - for the most part - are not going to run out and decapitate someone after hearing a song about it. It's pretty much like a movie set to music.


However with rap, the lyrics are more a narrative of their life and backrounds, and they DO live that stuff everyday, such as the shootings and the drug dealing and the robberies (again, to Nappy this time, sorry to be so cliche, but it's the most extreme example), or they did growing up and it's why they sing about it now, and a majority if it's fanbase IS from that backround. So while it may not neccessarily be rap itself that STARTED the violence (most of the pioneers of rap WEREN'T singing about violence), it is performed by the people who come from bacrounds of violence, and now they sing about violence etc, so you can see where the copmparisons come from.
Exactly, I understand this. The part I don't understand is that yes...they had a rough upbringing, poor, had nothing, dealt with crime and violence, yada, yada, yada....

Well, what's the excuse now? They're rich, have more cars and homes than I'll ever see, have fame, have fortune. Don't you pull yourself out of the gutter when the means presents itself?

Listen, I have no problem with rap per se...to each their own. (and I'm not saying you're saying this, Agent..just making a general statement) I get upset with the utter lack of responsibility taken by rappers AND their fans towards trying to curb the violence. Nappy's response is the one I usually see when a violent incident occurs. Instead of outrage or trying to do damage control, it's "we ain't the only ones."

Like alcoholism, unless you admit there's a problem you'll never solve it.

Agent51
05-12-2006, 09:53 AM
I heard about this also, but you have it wrong. The singer of a band called Mayhem killed himself, and the idiots in his band used a photo of his suicide as their album cover. Trust me, I will not defend these morons. :rolleyes: :lol:



No offense taken.

First of all I don't eat sleep and breathe metal. I did when I was younger, but now I have to get along with society. :lol:

Back then it definitely was a way of life. Just not to the extreme that rap takes it. We had our way of thinking and screw everyone else's. However, you're correct about the lyrics. Metal is meant to be a form of escape from the real world. It's more fantasy based, and therefore the fans - for the most part - are not going to run out and decapitate someone after hearing a song about it. It's pretty much like a movie set to music.



Exactly, I understand this. The part I don't understand is that yes...they had a rough upbringing, poor, had nothing, dealt with crime and violence, yada, yada, yada....

Well, what's the excuse now? They're rich, have more cars and homes than I'll ever see, have fame, have fortune. Don't you pull yourself out of the gutter when the means presents itself?

Listen, I have no problem with rap per se...to each their own. (and I'm not saying you're saying this, Agent..just making a general statement) I get upset with the utter lack of responsibility taken by rappers AND their fans towards trying to curb the violence. Nappy's response is the one I usually see when a violent incident occurs. Instead of outrage or trying to do damage control, it's "we ain't the only ones."

Like alcoholism, unless you admit there's a problem you'll never solve it.

Well said on everything Pagan.

Yea, Mayhem was the band name. The suicide thing I do remember now, but I could have SWORN there was something written about one of the guys eating the brains, or at least trying to.

I completely agree with the "way of life" statement and everything you said, but what I meant by it wasn't a "true" way of life, persay, is that you don't act out what the lyrics say. Everything else about the "not give a F" attidude and all that is completely agreeable though.

THIS is what I question also. I believe Nappy said, with the Proof shooting example, "are they supposed to NOT go to clubs and stuff now, it's their lifestyle and now they have tons of money to do it". Well no, they aren't supposed to avoid clubs, but they also aren't supposd to carry guns on them and shoot people in the face over pool games (again with the extreme examples, sorry). My point is, there are a bunch of celebrities and musicians and athletes who had rough pasts (take Vince Young for example, he grew up in a bad neighborhood and was pressured into joining a gang every day of his life, not to mention he got hit by a car and almost died) but THEY have used their success to leave it behind and better themselves. They still go to clubs and party and live large, but they don't carry guns around and go to VERY bad neighborhoods (like 8 Mile) when they KNOW that people there are jealous of them making it out of the hood. If you wanna go to clubs but feel you need protection, how about some BODYGUARDS and THEY can carry the weapons? Hell, even ones who DO leave it behind still partake in the violence. Look at 50 Cent, he bought a damn MANSION in the woods of Conn., HARDLY a ghetto, yet he still carries a gun (he has said it in numerous interviews, and partakes in the violence (see the Ja Rule feud). WHY? He left all that behind and followed his dream of being a successful musician (as ALL of them did) so why go back? I'm sure when they were dreaming of making it big they weren't like "I wanna get rich so I can still hang out in this bad enviroment", no, they were like "Man, this is a BAD enviroment, I need to make it so I can get out of this situation" and then they DO make it (which is a great accomplishment seeing as making it big in the music industry isn;t THAT easy) and what do they do, they surround themselves with the negativity that they all talk about dreaming of making it big so they could leave it :confused:

Nappy Roots
05-12-2006, 11:17 AM
Okay, so now you dragged me into this by dragging metal into it...really reaching too. Allow me to debunk.

The first article you posted was of a mentally unbalanced fan who killed a musician because he thought the man was stealing the songs he wrote. Not the same as the rappers you so vehemently defend.

This is one instance. ONE. I've personally been to close to 300 concerts in my life, and I've NEVER seen one hint of violence. This is in New York, and at metal shows. Think rap could have 300 straight shows without violence?

I'll bet you my LIFETIME worth of paychecks that it can't.

Name me one instance of a rock & roll or metal musician killing another in some ******* "East Coast vs. West Coast" feud.

Name me one band that attacked or killed another due to being "dissed" in one of their songs. (Name me one band that is juvenile enough to have to waste songs on their albums "dissing" another, for that matter. :lol: )

Not the same, but GOOD try Nappy! Keep digging, maybe you'll find an article that's similar to what rappers do to each other.....maybe.

Metal musicians gather together every year at the NAMM festival to promote and display new gear. What do you think would happen if a large - and I mean LARGE, NAMM is HUGE - group of rappers got together under one roof?

Your second article is a JOKE. First of all it's on a religious website. We all know that organized religion has had a hair up its *** over rock music since day one, so it's SLIGHTLY biased now, innit?

Second, it speaks of things that were done - again - by FANS. Not by the artists thmeselves. And it speaks of a few of them. The instances are few and far between. No rock artist has ever killed another. No rock artist has ever SHOT another. None. Nada. Zilch. You're trying to blow smoke up our *****....and failing miserably. If you want to post links to violence associated with musical genres, I could be here for DAYS posting links to rap violence.

Yes, some metal lyrics speak of violence. What the article fails to point out is that most of them are written in the third person. They're not talking about how bad-*** they are, or how much "street cred" they have cause they've been shot 8 times. They're singing about either historical figures or events, or putting themselves in the position of a serial killer, rapist, etc. and singing from their point of view. It's fiction.

If you use that logic, you better go out and round up all those horror movie directors. I mean hell....LOOK at the bloodshed! Then again, I can't recall Wes Craven ever wanting to pop a cap into George Romero. Are you getting the picture yet?

I see Iron Maiden mentioned. Funny, the author of that article brings up Maiden's "mascot" Eddie (can't even spell it right :rolleyes: ) and say he "kills with great delight". Really now? I've been to about 25 Maiden shows over the years, and I've yet to see or read about Eddie killing anyone, In fact, on the album "The Number of the Beast" He's actually portrayed as kicking the devil's ***.

And I also see the lame attempt to say that Ozzy's song "Suicide Solution" advocates suicide. This has been done a MILLION times in tha past, and was even brought to trial cause some dumb kid decided to kill himself while listening to Ozzy. If any fool toook 5 minutes to read the lyrics, he'd see that Ozzy is singing about how alcohol will kill you. That alcohol is a suicide "solution". Solution meaning liquid.

But once again, where does this article point out any rock or metal musicians killing each other? Where's the gunfire?

You're grasping at straws Nappy. Like someone else said, you love rap. That's great, and power to you...but stop being an ostrich with your head in the sand.

There's never been a genre of music that has been associated with so much violence as rap. Love the music all you want, but you're crying wolf if you think that everyone's gunna believe that this is all some sort of misconception.




pagan, honestly i didnt even read any of your posts. because its obvious you think i posted those links to say rock is violent. Which isnt the case at all. I just posted them to show how violence happens everywhere. At all kinds of music concerts, rock, rap, metal, etc. . The music is the last thing that should be blamed.

tucker
05-12-2006, 11:19 AM
starr is a radio dj similiar to howard stern...he's an act..thats all he is..he's been fired about 3 times now..he and hot 97 haven been going back and forth for a while now..just recently his radio station over took hot 97 and he's been calling them out since...envy is a punk and his wife used to be a slut...

ganooch
05-12-2006, 11:24 AM
starr is a radio dj similiar to howard stern...he's an act..thats all he is..he's been fired about 3 times now..he and hot 97 haven been going back and forth for a while now..just recently his radio station over took hot 97 and he's been calling them out since...envy is a punk and his wife used to be a slut...
that's all fine but he should not be talking about screwing a 4 year old child and then urinating on her.

Nappy Roots
05-12-2006, 11:46 AM
That being said, I have no particular bias towards the genre, HOWEVER, it DOES seem to me like of all the genres of music, rap has the most violent history, and violence associated with it.


yes they do, but its obviously biased agaisnt rap. As if violence happens at a rock concert, its violence(because this is an violent world, which i fully believe), but when it happens at a rap concert, these "rappers" are WAY to violent.



Now Nappy, I am not trying to start an arguement with you here, so just hear me out. I KNOW that a lot of the violence and actions that is portrayed in their music and that may happen at shows or surrounding them is that way BECAUSE of there upbringing, I completely get that. The only problem I really have with your particular arguements is that you don't really acknoweldge their responsibility for it. What I mean is, you have explained to us all before about the lyrics and the rappers being that way because that's all they know, and because of their upbringing, which is certianly a valid point, but then at the same time you turn around and say it's not rappers, or rap, that are violent or causing the violence, but it is.


Then are movies and the news responsible for violence? Also, its not just their upbringing. There is violence every day. You dont get mad at reporters for reporting 3 people being murdered in a suburb of Michigan. Most rappers are like ghetto reporters. They say whats going on, the violence, the drugs, they are like script righters(which most music is like), they fabricate stories OFF of those reports. Rap is associated with violence for 1 reason, because the hood is so violent. Rap for the most part is not violent, its the people outside of rap thats violent. The people that rap is actaully rapping about. i fail how some people see the meaning of associate. Does rap associate with violence because they speak on the real world and how violent it is, but yet hardly are ever really violent themselves. Or. Does rap associate with violence, but 75% of the people that show up to a rap show are black, 10 of them are carrying weapons, a fight breaks out over a girl, and someone pulls it and kills a dude?.....






Hell, I listen to Punk music, and we go to shows and we go into the pit and beat the hell out of each other, but the second someone falls in that pit everyone reaches down, picks the person up, and they go right back to slamming around. I'm not sure if yoyu've ever been to a punk show, but let me tell you, some pits are VIOLENT, but in the end everyone still looks out for everyone. You get punched in the face and kicked in the head and stuff but the second someone goes down they are helped right up. I was at a show a few months ago in LA and I got my lip split open by some idot kid basically swinging fists in the air and he nailed me, I was pissed, but a few minutes later I saw the kid slip and fall and I was one of the first people to help him up.


no ive never been to one. but i have no clue how helping someone else up has relivence to this thread honestly. I mean its cool to look out for eachother, but rap concerts dont put themselves in that situation to begin with, so we have no clue what would happen.



but with rap it's like the fantasy never ends. There is no set time to just go wild and then stop, it's like 24/7 violence, and again, like you said, its due to their upbringing, which nobody is disputing, but with your arguements you blame it on where they are from in one sentance, but in the next you say it isn't RAPPERS being violent, so it kind of makes no sense.


Thats a pretty interesting thought honestly. There is 24/7 violence everywhere you look. The TV....News, Movies, Sitcoms....You can pop in a rap album and not here 1 song about shooting someone. But yet people CHOOSE to. Just like you could choose to watch Violent movies everyday. Then it turns into a 24/7 non stop fantasy there to.





Well first, to Nappy. I read awhile back in an arguement you were having with Budd (soon after the Proof shooting) where you were like "When was the last time a RAPPER shot somebody?" And Budd completely missed it, but the answer would be PROOF. He shot the guy first, thus causing him to be shot by the bouncer, and proof is a rapper, and the guy he shot is now dead, so there is an example of a rapper shooting, and killing, someone (I know it's only one instance, but it still answers your question of when the last time a rapper shot someone)


yea, i know. I meant as in before that. Thats 1 incident, but when was the last time.




All in all though Nappy, it is great that you are so passionate about rap, and nobody is downing you for that, if anything it's admirable that you stand up so strongly for what you believe in, and seem to be the only one (I notice tons of people post in the Hip Hop thread, yet non of them help you defend it when it gets heated) BUT, to say that it is all misunderstood and everything doesn't really work. We UNDERSTAND that they are from the streets and thats what they know, and that is the POINT of many of these arguements, that is the reason rap IS the most violent genre, by far, because for them it's NOT just music, it IS their lifestyle and way of life, and that way of life is the streets, which are violent.


Ah now see. "A way of life in the streets, which are violent". The streets are violent, with or without Rap. You think someone that is dealing crack cocaine on the corner, that has a glock .45 in his pocket, is gonna shot someone trying to rob them of 2 Gs because rappers talk about it? No, its the other way around. That happens, then rappers talk about it. All in all, a great post Agent.....

tucker
05-12-2006, 12:42 PM
that's all fine but he should not be talking about screwing a 4 year old child and then urinating on her.all he said was that he was gonna pull an R-kelly on the kid..its not like he really would tho..i can see where pple could be mad, but i dunno about firing him over it

Agent51
05-12-2006, 01:22 PM
yes they do, but its obviously biased agaisnt rap. As if violence happens at a rock concert, its violence(because this is an violent world, which i fully believe), but when it happens at a rap concert, these "rappers" are WAY to violent.

It's because Rap is a narrative of life on the streets, where rock and everything else is just a "fantasy" of sorts, so when violence erupts at a rock concert it is chalked up to random acts of few, where when it happens at a Rap concert, people blame it on the music because they stereotype the fans of Rap into the "thug" categorey. I'm not saying it's right, or fair, just that's how it is.

Then are movies and the news responsible for violence? Also, its not just their upbringing. There is violence every day. You dont get mad at reporters for reporting 3 people being murdered in a suburb of Michigan. Most rappers are like ghetto reporters. They say whats going on, the violence, the drugs, they are like script righters(which most music is like), they fabricate stories OFF of those reports. Rap is associated with violence for 1 reason, because the hood is so violent. Rap for the most part is not violent, its the people outside of rap thats violent. The people that rap is actaully rapping about. i fail how some people see the meaning of associate. Does rap associate with violence because they speak on the real world and how violent it is, but yet hardly are ever really violent themselves. Or. Does rap associate with violence, but 75% of the people that show up to a rap show are black, 10 of them are carrying weapons, a fight breaks out over a girl, and someone pulls it and kills a dude?.....

I'm not really sure where you are going with this one, as it kinda jumps all over the place, lol. No, people don't get Mad at reporters for reporting the news, but "fans" of the news also don't hear news reporters talking about violence that happened and then go and emulate it. Also, again, fans of rap, for the most part, are "from the streets" and they grow up surrounded by what rappers talk about, so they are more prone to act the way the music describes. Not BECAUSE of the music, just because that is the way they act normally, due to their enviroment, but the fact that they listen to music describing what they would be doing on a daily basis regardless of if the song was there or not, is what makes people blame rap. It's basically guilty by association. As far as violent rappers, I'm definately going to disagree with you there. First off, to be clear, we are talking about the rap that TALKS about violence here, I'm not talking like some Kanye West or Puffy or other "poppy" type rap, I'm talking about the rap about killing and drug dealing etc etc. But anyone from Eazy-E to Snoop all the way up to 50 Cent and Game(there could be PLENTY more, but I don't follow it so I can't really cite tons of examples) have violent/criminal pasts. Snoop was a friggin Crip, 50 Cent dealt crack, etc etc. The fact is some may not STILL do that stuff, but they all DID, so obviously THAT will tarnish their image too. As far as movies being real, no, they aren't, and that is my point. People KNOW the movies are fake, and the majority don't copy what the see there, as it is clear-cut fantasy. Howeevr, with rap, it IS a narrative of the streets, that stuff really DOES happen, whether the events happened in the way the rapper describes or not, as you said it's based on reality and then built upon, it doesn't matter to people, because the fact is the stuff does happen, and the majority who listen to the music dress and act the (steroetypical) art and have the sterotypical upbringing, so they will be judged accordingly. Again, not right, or fair, but it's reality.

no ive never been to one. but i have no clue how helping someone else up has relivence to this thread honestly. I mean its cool to look out for eachother, but rap concerts dont put themselves in that situation to begin with, so we have no clue what would happen.

The point of that part was that no matter how "violent" the music is, or amped up it gets you (thus making you jump around and smash into people), the fans still differentiate from what's REAL and what's FANTASY, as seen by helping someone up when they fall. When you are slamming around, that is part of the "fantasy" part of the music, another little world you are in, but when someone slips and falls, that is reality and he is helped back up. Then you leave and go talk about how awesome the show was. I've been to punk shows where I see people DESTROYING people in the pit, almost looks like real fights will happen, but then after the show those same two dudes are talking about how awesome it was ad tossin the other guy a beer. The point s with any other genre of music there's that switch that can be flipped between fantasy and reality, with rap, the violence and the streets ARE the reality, so the switch never gets turned off. For example, what happens when a rapper is a member of a gang, and pretty vocal about it (we can use Snoop for an example, back in the day Snoop, as I'm not sure what his affiliations are now). So this rapper is putting on a show. Well, by usuing coomon reasoning one could assume that a bunch of memebers of his gang will be attending the show. So now say there is a rival gang that KNOWS about the show, and knows a bunch of the members of the other gang will be gathered in this one place. BAM, ow you have a hit attempt, which will escalate into something VERY serious, probably fatal. I don't keep meaning to use these over-the-top cliches, but the fact remains that these are all great possibilities wth Rap and not with any pther genre, and this is where the reputation of Rap and its audience come from.

Thats a pretty interesting thought honestly. There is 24/7 violence everywhere you look. The TV....News, Movies, Sitcoms....You can pop in a rap album and not here 1 song about shooting someone. But yet people CHOOSE to. Just like you could choose to watch Violent movies everyday. Then it turns into a 24/7 non stop fantasy there to.

We all know that violence is everywhere, however, aside from the news, all of that violence is clearly defined as fantasy, but again, rap violence is real. Rappers are like news reporters for the streets. Problem is, there whole audience comes from the same backrounds that they are rapping about. Fans of orror movies don't come from backrounds of guys running around with Chainsaws or people turning into werewolfs at night. Fans of action movies don't come from backrounds of jumping out of planes just as they explode, with no parachute, and then grabbing a convienitnely placed huge fluttering banner to slide down into the backsteat of the bad guy's speeding corvette to have a fistfight at 100mph until the bad guy is knocked out and the car hits a water barrell on the highway and lips and then they crawl out of the wreck all bloody and covered in broken glass and stuff, but then they kiss the girl and go home. That stuff doesn't HAPPEN everyday, the stuff in rap does. I'm not judging anybody here, not the rappers, not their fans, not people from the streets not anybody, I am merely explaining WHY rap has its reputation. It's unfortunate that this stuff happens at all, but the fact remains that rap is a narrative, not a fantasy, and most rappers (that rap about violent things) CAME from that, they were the same place years ago that their fans are today. THAT is why it is considered violent. It also doesn't help when a rapper goes and gets busted for having a gun (Shyne, Em) or when they boast about their crack dealing pasts (Game, 50) or when they brag about their gang ties (Snoop, Suge Knight, who I know isn't a rapper but he is still associated with rap). So you see, rappers HELP create the stereotypes that exist about the music. You don't see rappers bragging about charities and building rec centers for underprivelidged kids (puffy doesn't count, lol) and doing community service like helping build houses or doing food drives and stuff, you see them braging about being all "hard" and "gangsta" and about their guns and money etc etc, so of COURSE they are going to get a bad rap from the press. Any other celebrities who came from rough and tumble backrounds have left that behind and done things to not only better themselves, but their communities too, and to distant themselves from that lifestyle. Rappers are the only ones who have gotten out of that lifestyle and have the means to make a real difference for themselves and others, and yet don't, and instead just keep acting like they are still in the streets.

yea, i know. I meant as in before that. Thats 1 incident, but when was the last time.

I personally don't follow rap, so I honsetly can't answer this question, nor am I going to go nitpick and search Google for articles. I will say though, that just because a rapper doesn;t shoot someone, or even carry a gun or commit violence himself, he is still associated with it, and CHOOSES to be associated with it, when a member of his enterouge commits one of those acts. Just because the actual RAPPER doesn't do it doesn;t mean rap has nothing to do with it. They are all living that certain lifestyle, which they no longer HAVE to do but now they CHOOSE to do, which makes it even worse. Growing up they didn't have the means to get away from it, they were trapped, but now they do, an yet they STILL surround themselves with it. I have heard the "you can take the boy out of the ghetto but not the ghetto out of the boy" arguement, but you know what, if that's true, then don't complain when you still get associated with the bad aspects of it.

Ah now see. "A way of life in the streets, which are violent". The streets are violent, with or without Rap. You think someone that is dealing crack cocaine on the corner, that has a glock .45 in his pocket, is gonna shot someone trying to rob them of 2 Gs because rappers talk about it? No, its the other way around. That happens, then rappers talk about it. All in all, a great post Agent.

No, I don't think that some crack dealer on the street is going to shoot someone attempting to rop them because rap says it, which is my exact point Nappy. He is gonna do what he needs to do to survive, and in certain places dealing crack, and robing people, or whatever else is what it comes down to. BUT, like you said, thats what happens, and rappers talk about it. And who makes up the majoroty of rap fans? That very crack dealer, or the gang memeber who joined because he had nowhere else to turn, or even people that are just EXPOSED to that everyday, they don't even have to be a gang member, or a criminal, but just grow up around it. THOSE are the rap fans. Now apply that to that fanbase and violence factor. The streets are violent, correct? OK, so now, if the majority of rappers and there fans are FROM the streets, one must conclude that THEY are violent, no? ALL of them, no, but the majority? Yes. You don't see some farmers in Iowa listening to rap do you? No, why, because they can't RELATE to it. Just like you don't see the crack dealer on the corner listening to country. The fact is that ALL fans reflect the music they listen to, EVERY genre is stereotyped. You know you see people on the street and, for the most part, can instantly guess what they listen to, or you hear that someone listens to a certain style of music and you automatically get a stereotype of that fanbase in your head. Examples:

Punk - People automatically think ripped shirts and tight jeans with huge Doc Martin boots and big, wildy-colored hair with tattoos and piercings and they "live on the streets" and are all "f the government, f establishment, f authority" etc etc. However, I am a punk fan, and I am not like that at all. I most certainly do not dress like that, not even close, I wear polos and button-downs and tees and jeans, I dress the part of a surfer, not some anti-government street kid. They also think its just "a bunch of noise and screaming" where that also isn't the case. Like with rap, there are many different kinds of punk. You have the 70s british bands, you've got "hardcore" which is the screaming sutff (which I hate), you've got that MTV "emo/pop" crap (which I hate, and then you've got "surf/skate" punk, which is what I listen to, which is just music that pretty much pumps you up, makes you wanna go out and hit someone before a football game or makes you wanna rip a wave a part when surfing, etc.

Metal - I'm not a huge metal fan, so I can't really describe the different styles of it, maybe Pagan could. But I do listen to one style, and that's "Hair" metal, which is the stuff from the 80's with the great guitar work and they all had huge hair and stuff, lol. Anyway, when you say "metalhead" the image most people get is long hair, black shirts, tight jeans, maybe leather jackets, always headbanging etc etc. Again, not ALL fans of metal are lke that, but it's the image that a majority of the fans have, therefore its the image assiciated with the genre.

Rock n Roll - This genre makes you think leather pants and long hair and hard-partying alcohol/drug abusers etc etc. Not the case, but it's the image protrayed. Hell, I like rock (not lately, but older stuff, like Aerosmith and ACDC and "classic" rock like Led Zeppelin and such) and I don't dress like that or abuse drugs, although I DO party hard, lol.

Country - Cowboy boots and hats, jean jackets, huge belt buckles, hicks, rednecks, whatever. I know plenty of people who listen to country music and have never even SEEN cowboy boots or hats in person.

I could go ON and ON, but I think this proves my point. All of those genres lsted has it's particular stereotypes because a majority of it's artists DO dress and act that way, and a majority of the fans follw suit. It's no different with rap, they have the steroetypical actions (violent, drug dealing, from the streets, etc etc) and the sterotypical dress, HUGE shirts, outrageous jewelry etc etc, and it is that way because, well, that is the way the artists act, or protray themselves, and that transfers over to the fans. In Rap's case that is REAL LIFE though, they would act and dress that way WITHOUT rap, you said it yourself.

Good posts Nappy, I'm enjoying the friendly debate :up:

Scrap
05-12-2006, 01:32 PM
all he said was that he was gonna pull an R-kelly on the kid..its not like he really would tho..i can see where pple could be mad, but i dunno about firing him over it
How do you not see firing the guy ?

tucker
05-12-2006, 01:35 PM
How do you not see firing the guy ?maybe b/c he has said worse before and nobody has ever complained

Nappy Roots
05-12-2006, 02:09 PM
I could go ON and ON, but I think this proves my point. All of those genres lsted has it's particular stereotypes because a majority of it's artists DO dress and act that way, and a majority of the fans follw suit. It's no different with rap, they have the steroetypical actions (violent, drug dealing, from the streets, etc etc) and the sterotypical dress, HUGE shirts, outrageous jewelry etc etc, and it is that way because, well, that is the way the artists act, or protray themselves, and that transfers over to the fans. In Rap's case that is REAL LIFE though, they would act and dress that way WITHOUT rap, you said it yourself.

Good posts Nappy, I'm enjoying the friendly debate :up:



another good post. but i have to question you about who listens to rap. 50 cent and Eminem go quadrupal platinum, yet the majority of their fan base arent even black, much less in the hood drug dealers. the fact is in my highschool, 90% of the people listend to rap music, whether it be rich white kids, or all the black kids. i have a cousin that lives in the sticks in Georiga, pretty much a redkneck, but he will listen to some rap. he has a 50 cent CD.

all in all, im not sure we are arguing the same point to be honest. it started off as a rappers killing rappers thing again, and it turned into rap being associated with violence, which like you said is obviously true.

Celtkin
05-12-2006, 02:18 PM
all in all, im not sure we are arguing the same point to be honest. it started off as a rappers killing rappers thing again, and it turned into rap being associated with violence, which like you said is obviously true.

Sorry, Nappy. I take responsibility for the mistake and I've tried to set thing straight twice so far in this thread. :(

Agent51
05-12-2006, 02:26 PM
another good post. but i have to question you about who listens to rap. 50 cent and Eminem go quadrupal platinum, yet the majority of their fan base arent even black, much less in the hood drug dealers. the fact is in my highschool, 90% of the people listend to rap music, whether it be rich white kids, or all the black kids. i have a cousin that lives in the sticks in Georiga, pretty much a redkneck, but he will listen to some rap. he has a 50 cent CD.

all in all, im not sure we are arguing the same point to be honest. it started off as a rappers killing rappers thing again, and it turned into rap being associated with violence, which like you said is obviously true.

Well see, this is what I meant. I mean the fanbase that is being described as violent. Nobody thinks of the rich white kids who listen to it as being violent, and that is unfortunate, as it is another form of stereotyping. What I was describing is the majority of the real "hard" rap fans. Of course a lot of white kids that aren't from the streets listen to stuff like 50 and Em, because that is what is played in the clubs. The point I was trying to make though was that EXCLUDING those fans, the ones who just listen to it because it is what is popular and on the radio/in clubs, the majority of the fans come from violent backrounds, be it THEY are violent, or just their surrounding.

And I don't really think it went too far off topic, I mean, a rapper killing a rapper is certainly violent, lol. But yea, I know what you mean. I was just trying to give you my P.O.V. on it, and try to et you know that a lot of people (myself, Pagan, etc) don't bash rap because we don't like it, so when we post about it being violent or whatever, we try and provide facts to back it up. Yea, there are people here who seem to just say something about rap jst for the sake of a reaction, but you can clearly tell who is just saying things to provoke and who is trying to have an informative discussion.

Nappy Roots
05-12-2006, 02:34 PM
Well see, this is what I meant. I mean the fanbase that is being described as violent. Nobody thinks of the rich white kids who listen to it as being violent, and that is unfortunate, as it is another form of stereotyping. What I was describing is the majority of the real "hard" rap fans. Of course a lot of white kids that aren't from the streets listen to stuff like 50 and Em, because that is what is played in the clubs. The point I was trying to make though was that EXCLUDING those fans, the ones who just listen to it because it is what is popular and on the radio/in clubs, the majority of the fans come from violent backrounds, be it THEY are violent, or just their surrounding.

And I don't really think it went too far off topic, I mean, a rapper killing a rapper is certainly violent, lol. But yea, I know what you mean. I was just trying to give you my P.O.V. on it, and try to et you know that a lot of people (myself, Pagan, etc) don't bash rap because we don't like it, so when we post about it being violent or whatever, we try and provide facts to back it up. Yea, there are people here who seem to just say something about rap jst for the sake of a reaction, but you can clearly tell who is just saying things to provoke and who is trying to have an informative discussion.


absolutly, which is why we can have a civilized arguement, but i get pissed at other people who come in and just say why listen to crap. its all good

tucker
05-12-2006, 02:47 PM
another good post. but i have to question you about who listens to rap. 50 cent and Eminem go quadrupal platinum, yet the majority of their fan base arent even black, much less in the hood drug dealers. the fact is in my highschool, 90% of the people listend to rap music, whether it be rich white kids, or all the black kids. i have a cousin that lives in the sticks in Georiga, pretty much a redkneck, but he will listen to some rap. he has a 50 cent CD.

15 and 16 yr old white girls for the most part..and red neck hicks who tatoo thug life on their stomachs and wear tupac t-shirts and have tupac posters in their rooms...

and what the hell does all this rambling about music genres have to do with anything this radio dj ?

Nappy Roots
05-12-2006, 02:53 PM
15 and 16 yr old white girls for the most part..and red neck hicks who tatoo thug life on their stomachs and wear tupac t-shirts and have tupac posters in their rooms...

and what the hell does all this rambling about music genres have to do with anything this radio dj ?


exactly. and i guess peope are sayin the radio dj is violent just like every other rapper

Agent51
05-12-2006, 03:05 PM
15 and 16 yr old white girls for the most part..and red neck hicks who tatoo thug life on their stomachs and wear tupac t-shirts and have tupac posters in their rooms...

and what the hell does all this rambling about music genres have to do with anything this radio dj ?

It doesn't, but SOMEONE started to generalize the radio DJ as a rapper, which made Nappy defend rap, which made some other people bring in the shooting/violence part, which led to our lengthly rap and violence music genre discussion, lol.

Celtkin
05-14-2006, 07:15 AM
maybe b/c he has said worse before and nobody has ever complained

Really? Now he may be doing some jail time (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2006-05-12T234715Z_01_N12185531_RTRUKOC_0_US-CRIME-DJ.xml&src=rss&rpc=22):

DJ arrested after threatening child on air


NEW YORK (Reuters) - A New York hip-hop disc jockey was arrested on Friday for endangering the welfare of a child, two days after he was fired for racist and sexually threatening comments about a rival's wife and 4-year-old daughter.

cnc66
05-14-2006, 08:45 AM
excellent, now maybe the Dad won't have to got to jail for killing the baasturd who threatened his daughter.

Scrap
05-14-2006, 11:04 AM
maybe b/c he has said worse before and nobody has ever complainedNot a good reason. Just because his bosses were idiots before, doesn't mean they should be now.:rolleyes:

Muck
05-14-2006, 12:29 PM
:rolleyes2


WOW! rappers are so violent!

in all those articles. 1 rapper pulled a trigger to kill someone, and he was killed himself...

lets try again.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140955,00.html


http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/rock/violence.shtml

I don't know about all that.

The first article was about a mentally insane man who murdered a guitar legend on stage last year. Same as Mark David Chapman fatally shooting John Lennon at his doorstep 26 years ago. Pretty much a case of stalking.

The second article is 15 years old. And it was the result of Axl Rose attacking a fan (for videotaping him), then quitting the show. Guns N' Roses tickets were EXPENSIVE back then. And this jackass decides to stiff the fans like 2 songs in. He did this the next year as well in Montreal.

Had nothing to do with his lyrics, music or his persona. It had everything to do with him being an egostistical crybaby with a history of everything from drug abuse to beating women that cares little about his fans.

The point is, the articles you cited, 14 years apart, are completely irrelevant to the conversation. They're also unrelated to one another. They've got nothing to do with lyrical content. Or even music itself.

The the debate over rap and rock violence is completely different. The only violence you see in rock is at certain shows, when people are moshing to the music. And even then, there's an understanding that you're not trying to hurt one another. Someone falls down, you pick him up.

Intentionally or not, I feel like a lot of hip hop artists contribute the stereotypes. They promote a lifestyle that caters to the least common moral denominator. It would be one thing if everybody were smart enough to differentiate fiction and reality, figurative and literal, right and wrong. But those aren't the times we live in. People are taking longer to mentally and emotionally mature these days. We lack a lot of the basic skills that generations before us had to have.

We're an audio/visual generation. That's what resonates. We're innundated with cars, jewelry, whores and other material possessions. We're constantly told what's cool and what isn't. What to like and what not to like by those with a monetary interest. If kids can be brainwashed into buying worthless crap with flashy "oh neato!!" commercials, why can't impressionable teenagers and twenty-somethings be influenced by flashy lifestyle commercials (a.k.a music videos and records) that speak to the greedy, me-first person within??

The message can be complete nonsense. But if it's got a catchy beat/rhythm, we'll give it a chance. If the voice is slick and the phrasing attractive, we'll listen. We'll take it in. Again, it doesn't matter if the message is bullcrap. It filters thru.

And why shouldn't they stick with the status quo?? It sells. And that's ultimately what's important: having the money to flash and throw away.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't feel like rap is as violent anymore as some make it out to be. But it's even more influential, good and bad. And I think it's just one of many reasons why we, as a generation, have lost some focus on what's important and what's right.

Sorry to be all serious on a Sunday. :lol:

Nappy Roots
05-14-2006, 12:31 PM
I don't know about all that.

The first article was about a mentally insane man who murdered a guitar legend on stage last year. Same as Mark David Chapman fatally shooting John Lennon at his doorstep 26 years ago. In the back.

The second article is 15 years old. And it was the result of Axl Rose attacking a fan (for videotaping him), then quitting the show. Guns N' Roses tickets were EXPENSIVE back then. And this jackass decides to stiff the fans like 2 songs in. He did this the next year as well in Montreal.

Had nothing to do with his lyrics, music or his persona. It had everything to do with him being an egostistical crybaby with a history of everything from drug abuse to beating women that cares little about his fans.

The point is, the articles you cited, 14 years apart, are completely irrelevant to the conversation. They're also unrelated to one another. They've got nothing to do with lyrical content. Or even music itself.

The the debate over rap and rock violence is completely different. The only violence you see in rock is at certain shows, when people are moshing to the music. And even then, there's an understanding that you're not trying to hurt one another. Someone falls down, you pick him up.

Intentionally or not, I feel like a lot of hip hop artists contribute the stereotypes. They promote a lifestyle that caters to the least common moral denominator. It would be one thing if everybody were smart enough to differentiate fiction and reality, figurative and literal, right and wrong. But those aren't the times we live in. People are taking longer to mentally and emotionally mature these days. We lack a lot of the basic skills that generations before I had to have.

We're an audio/visual generation. That's what resonates. We're innundated with cars, jewelry, whores and other material possessions. We're constantly told what's cool and what isn't. What to like and what not to like by those with a monetary interest. If kids can be brainwashed into buying worthless crap with flashy "oh neato!!" commercials, why can't impressionable teenagers and twenty-somethings be influenced by flashy lifestyle commercials (a.k.a music videos and records) that speak to the greedy, me-first person within??

The message can be complete nonsense. But if it's got a catchy beat/rhythm, we'll give it a chance. If the voice is slick and the phrasing attractive, we'll listen. We'll take it in. Again, it doesn't matter if the message is bullcrap. It filters thru.

And why shouldn't they stick with the status quo?? It sells. And that's ultimately what's important: having the money to flash and throw away.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't feel like rap is as violent anymore as some make it out to be. But it's even more influential, good and bad. And I think it's just one of many reasons why we, as a generation, have lost some focus on what's important and what's right.

Sorry to be all serious on a Sunday. :lol:


you should read the rest of the thread. where i stated the links werent saying that rock is voilent and people are violent because of it.

Muck
05-14-2006, 12:37 PM
you should read the rest of the thread. where i stated the links werent saying that rock is voilent and people are violent because of it.

Maybe I should read the rest of the thread. But the post itself was your attempt to draw parallel between the two. It was incorrect. Hopefully I'll find the intended the correlation in the pages that followed.

Even still, would you like to respond to the rest of my post??

Nappy Roots
05-14-2006, 12:40 PM
Maybe I should read the rest of the thread. But the post itself was your attempt to draw parallel between the two. It was incorrect.

Even still, would you like to respond to the rest of my post??


no, i wasnt drawing parallel between the two. i was drawing parallel between violence that happens, everywhere, anywhere, no matter what kind of music, religon, race, etc.

and honestly i dont know that i do what to respond to the rest of your post. might just send everything right back into a circle and another argument that im tiring of. But ill read your post and see what i think....

Nappy Roots
05-14-2006, 12:45 PM
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't feel like rap is as violent anymore as some make it out to be. But it's even more influential, good and bad. And I think it's just one of many reasons why we, as a generation, have lost some focus on what's important and what's right.

Sorry to be all serious on a Sunday. :lol:



yes we have. but what does rap have to do with that? video games, TV, and computers have more to do with that than anything.

Agent51
05-14-2006, 12:45 PM
**sits back in his ringside seat for round 2**

:jt0323:

Nappy Roots
05-14-2006, 12:46 PM
**sits back in his ringside seat for round 2**

:jt0323:




**takes gloves off, leaves ring, and askes Agent for some popcorn**


:whew:


Please be over

Agent51
05-14-2006, 12:48 PM
**takes gloves off, leaves ring, and askes Agent for some popcorn**


:whew:


Please be over

:lol:, yea. Muck makes good points, but I'm sure you don't wanna go through another giant discussion after you and I just had one. Where's that "beating a dead horse" smiley?

*EDIT* :deadhorse sweet, lol.

And this if for you Nappy: :eat:

Muck
05-14-2006, 12:49 PM
no, i wasnt drawing parallel between the two. i was drawing parallel between violence that happens, everywhere, anywhere, no matter what kind of music, religon, race, etc.

Then why not post links to "mom assaults teacher" or "Tanya Harding's husband hires man to whack Nancy Kerrigan's knee"?? When both links went to rock-related incidents, how was I supposed to draw any other conclusion??


and honestly i dont know that i do what to respond to the rest of your post. might just send everything right back into a circle and another argument that im tiring of. But ill read your post and see what i think....

That's cool. I don't know that I feel like going thru it either. :lol:

Nappy Roots
05-14-2006, 12:51 PM
Then why not post links to "mom assaults teacher" or "Tanya Harding's husband hires man to whack Nancy Kerrigan's knee"?? When both links went to rock-related incidents, how was I supposed to draw any other conclusion??



well, i posted those links about rock becasue the poster i quoted posted links about hip-hop violence, i was showing how easy it was to find violence like that.

again, i definitly was not saying rock was violent.

Nappy Roots
05-14-2006, 12:52 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/05/new0030hh-1.gif

Muck
05-14-2006, 01:11 PM
yes we have. but what does rap have to do with that? video games, TV, and computers have more to do with that than anything.

While it's certainly debatable which has more to do with it than the other, I don't think it's far fetched to say hip hop plays a role in it.

Why else would young men still living at home sink thousands of dollars worth of accessories into $500 cars and big chains with charms?? Because that's what's made out to be the end all, be all of human existence by the guys they like on TV and radio.

Same way of thinking that gets Jeezy all this respect for claiming to be a "snowman". Because it's been validated by the guys making the money....i.e. the rappers and everybody else who stands to make money off them.

Again, they declare what is cool and acceptable, what you gotta have. And we, the consumers, follow suit.

Muck
05-14-2006, 01:12 PM
well, i posted those links about rock becasue the poster i quoted posted links about hip-hop violence, i was showing how easy it was to find violence like that.

again, i definitly was not saying rock was violent.

Then you should have prefaced it as such. :)

Muck
05-14-2006, 01:14 PM
http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/1079/new0030hh.gif

Maybe for you, but I rarely get involved in these kinds of threads.

It's cool though. We don't have to keep going. I really just wanted to voice my opinion on the matter for once. :)

Nappy Roots
05-14-2006, 01:20 PM
Same way of thinking that gets Jeezy all this respect for claiming to be a "snowman". Because it's been validated by the guys making the money....i.e. the rappers and everybody else who stands to make money off them.


Jeezy gets respect for making money as the "snowman"(which doesnt stand for having diamonds on his wrist), but he doesnt get respect for having money. BUT! thats a whole nother discussion, as this might spark an EXTREMELY long discussion on rap...:lol:





Maybe for you, but I rarely get involved in these kinds of threads.

It's cool though. We don't have to keep going. I really just wanted to voice my opinion on the matter for once. :)


yea i understand.

Muck
05-14-2006, 01:24 PM
Jeezy gets respect for making money as the "snowman"(which doesnt stand for having diamonds on his wrist), but he doesnt get respect for having money. BUT! thats a whole nother discussion, as this might spark an EXTREMELY long discussion on rap...:lol:.

Oh I know what it's about.

Yeah, that would be another long discussion. We'd need three horses. :lol:

ShaqandWade323
05-14-2006, 06:05 PM
Young Jeezy sucks.

Coral Reefer
05-14-2006, 07:03 PM
yes we have. but what does rap have to do with that? video games, TV, and computers have more to do with that than anything.


:rolleyes:

Still going. :lol:

As Pagan so eloquently pointed out....

You could post violent incedents by rappers, people associated with rap and rap events links for days.
I mentioned that when I gave you a quick example of just 5.

Yeah you can find articles about violence linked to any group of people just not anywhere near the numbers associated with rap, the rap scene and rap fans. When certain events happen over and over again within one group it becomes more of a norm than an exception.

You can make excuses for this all you want but you cannot distort the facts that excess amounts of violence ARE associated with rap.

ShaqandWade323
05-14-2006, 07:12 PM
:rolleyes:

Still going. :lol:

As Pagan so eloquently pointed out....

You could post violent incedents by rappers, people associated with rap and rap events links for days.
I mentioned that when I gave you a quick example of just 5.

Yeah you can find articles about violence linked to any group of people just not anywhere near the numbers associated with rap, the rap scene and rap fans. When certain events happen over and over again within one group it becomes more of a norm than an exception.

You can make excuses for this all you want but you cannot distort the facts that excess amounts of violence ARE associated with rap.
Well, it's not just rap, obviously. I remember when Judas Priest was sued by the parents of two kids who took their lives after listening to the band. I'm not going to blame it on a music genre, it's more so people being messed up in the head.

tucker
05-14-2006, 08:22 PM
and star is still getting paid the 5 million a year for 4 years since it was written into his contract...

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
"You're looking at the new Lenny Bruce" - Star

and the reason all this started in the first place was because From what I heard, it kicked off when DJ Envy and Miss Jones started making fun of Star's dead father, and Envy allegedly made some threats towards Star as well in addition to calling star's mother a prostitute.

Celtkin
05-14-2006, 08:25 PM
and star is still getting paid the 5 million a year for 4 years since it was written into his contract...

He probably has a morals clause in his contract...

No morals = No $

Scrap
05-14-2006, 09:25 PM
He should be put on a predator's list for his threats.

Celtkin
05-14-2006, 09:29 PM
http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b9a8004513.jpg
"You're looking at the new Lenny Bruce" - Star



"You're looking at the new Michael Jackson" - Celtkin Daily

PassRush
05-15-2006, 03:39 AM
Is there a way to put an entire thread on ignore? Threads like this piss me off, cant we all get along? I laugh about how 50 Cent raps about killing people and on the next track raps about how he is blessed by god with his ability to rap; but by no means are rappers any more violent than anyone else