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View Full Version : How do u think the Patrick Surtain Vonnie Holiday trade turned out



MYSTERIO
05-27-2006, 11:20 PM
I mean how did the trade for Patrick Surtain for the second round pick turn out. Our secondary last year was a mess without him but now we fixed it up dont u think

ShuggieOtis
05-27-2006, 11:24 PM
I think it turned out somewhat bad because our secondary is a mess now
?? maybe last year our secondary was a mess. We have lots of depth now after this offseason and i think saban knows what he wants to do with the secondary. Vonnie played at an exceptional level last year IMO. No way you can say our secondary is a mess now, there is some uncertainity....but no mess.

Rick 1966
05-27-2006, 11:24 PM
What in the heck are you TALKING about? We didn't trade Surtain for Vonnie Holliday, we traded him for a second round pick.

Anthony D.
05-27-2006, 11:24 PM
I think it turned out somewhat bad because our secondary is a mess nowActually, while I certainly believe Surtain was the real star in our secondary, I think we are shaping up nicely. Nobody is talkin' about Will Poole as if he is anything. He is gonna' turn a few heads now that he is back. Allen, Hill and Allen along with Poole and Daniels? What's so messed up about that? I am satisfied.

Anthony D.
05-27-2006, 11:25 PM
What in the heck are you TALKING about? We didn't trade Surtain for Vonnie Holliday, we traded him for a second round pick.And yes this guy is right, we got a second rounder for Surtain. Holiday was a free agent pick up.

joeyme_2004
05-27-2006, 11:25 PM
We signed Holliday as a FA not in a trade.

endorPHINS72
05-27-2006, 11:26 PM
I think it turned out somewhat bad because our secondary is a mess now

I think it turned out better than when we traded Jason Taylor for A.J. Feeley. :wink:

SuperBankz
05-27-2006, 11:27 PM
What in the heck are you TALKING about? We didn't trade Surtain for Vonnie Holliday, we traded him for a second round pick.
:yeahthat:

Anthony D.
05-27-2006, 11:28 PM
I think it turned out better than when we traded Jason Taylor for A.J. Feeley. :wink::sidelol:

dolpns13
05-27-2006, 11:29 PM
How do u think the Patrick Surtain Vonnie Holliday trade turned out....

Essentially we traded Surtain for Matt Roth. I'm feeling pretty good about our secondary and I think we will be better in 06 than we were in 05. Even though will Allen isnt a Sam Madison, I think he;s going to greatly help our young corners. The safety spots are looking good too. I dont need to name our entire secondary but I think if the season started today we would be ok with a second year under Sabans system

MiamiDolfan
05-27-2006, 11:35 PM
ok Pat Surtain for Matt Roth y the hell did we make that trade ?

dolpns13
05-27-2006, 11:38 PM
ok Pat Surtain for Matt Roth y the hell did we make that trade ?
Surtain for the second which we used on Roth

Anthony D.
05-27-2006, 11:39 PM
ok Pat Surtain for Matt Roth y the hell did we make that trade ?LOL:lol: We did not trade Surtain for Matt...We traded Surtain for the second round pick we used on Matt because all our cap money was tied up into high paid defensive players and we had Jay Fiedler type talent at QB. Nuff said on that. We also had one really crappy line and few good recieves. Now we have a REAL offense and an up and comming defense that will get younger and more talented each year.

Anthony D.
05-27-2006, 11:41 PM
We traded Odawale Ogunleye for Marty Booker. I like Marty but this was a reach on our part to get offensive talent in here. Ogunleye with Taylor was amazing. Miss him alot.

NickJr.
05-27-2006, 11:57 PM
We traded Odawale Ogunleye for Marty Booker. I like Marty but this was a reach on our part to get offensive talent in here. Ogunleye with Taylor was amazing. Miss him alot.

Don't forget that Adawale held out that year. We couldn't agree on a contract. We basically had to move him for whatever we could get. I think it was a good move given the circumstances. Marty has been a solid #2 WR with less than stellar QB play and really came on at the end of last year.

basaltrock
05-28-2006, 12:02 AM
We traded Odawale Ogunleye for Marty Booker. I like Marty but this was a reach on our part to get offensive talent in here. Ogunleye with Taylor was amazing. Miss him alot.
Ogunleye with Taylor was amazing, but the hold out that Ogunleye was starting to enact after that season made us try and get something for him. He wanted a ton of money, Speilman didn't give him a ton of money (make a very good player happy? Speilman... nah!!!), he wasn't going to play the next season, so we got something for him. The year before that, I believe I recall Booker having a 1000+yd season with the Bears. Didn't look too bad then and def still possible that Booker could turn it around with a real QB in C-Pep.

djfresh47
05-28-2006, 12:11 AM
Surtain didn't seem to help the Chiefs secondary. Nobody likes to see a guy who was a very good player for the team leave but his best days are behind him. Vonnie Holliday surprised me and played well I really like that pickup right now. I don't think the team would have re-signed Patrick Surtain so it comes down to whether you would rather get compensation for him or have him for another season in which case I like the trade.

Anthony D.
05-28-2006, 12:11 AM
Ogunleye with Taylor was amazing, but the hold out that Ogunleye was starting to enact after that season made us try and get something for him. He wanted a ton of money, Speilman didn't give him a ton of money (make a very good player happy? Speilman... nah!!!), he wasn't going to play the next season, so we got something for him. The year before that, I believe I recall Booker having a 1000+yd season with the Bears. Didn't look too bad then and def still possible that Booker could turn it around with a real QB in C-Pep.I believe marty will have a good year. You know how it is, very hard to see what was the top defense turn into such a mess, but I do agree that we are now on the right track again.

Anthony D.
05-28-2006, 12:12 AM
Don't forget that Adawale held out that year. We couldn't agree on a contract. We basically had to move him for whatever we could get. I think it was a good move given the circumstances. Marty has been a solid #2 WR with less than stellar QB play and really came on at the end of last year.I certainly agree.

Dolfan73
05-28-2006, 12:24 AM
What has Wale' done since he left here??? :::::Crickets:::::

Anthony D.
05-28-2006, 12:29 AM
What has Wale' done since he left here??? :::::Crickets:::::Not as much this is true. It was the combo of him and Taylor that made him what he was.

Rugged Ronnie23
05-28-2006, 12:47 AM
Personal attacks are not allowed here.

You're An edited

grooves12
05-28-2006, 01:28 AM
I don't beleive our secondary was "a mess" last year. It wasn't exactly a strength but they did a pretty good job considering we were installing a new system and lost Poole who we were counting on to be a mojor contributor. I think this year with him back, drafting Allen, and all the other additions we can go from adequate to good, and perhaps even make it one of our strengths towards the end of the season.

We moved Surtain because his price was too high... and I think it was a good move. We wouldn't have had the room to be a true player for a QB in free agency this year had we paid him his market rate, and if we had just kept restructuring those high paid defensive players to finance the new additions this team would fall apart in a couple of years. I like the way Saban is building this team. I can't really find fault with any of the moves he has made so far.

grooves12
05-28-2006, 01:33 AM
Not as much this is true. It was the combo of him and Taylor that made him what he was.
I don't think it is fair to bag on Ogunleye... he definitely had talent and Taylor benifitted just as much by having him on the opposite side.

Ogun was hurt his first year in Chicago, and he put pretty good numbers when healthy last year.

ShuggieOtis
05-28-2006, 02:41 AM
What has Wale' done since he left here??? :::::Crickets:::::

umm was a huge part in the best defense in the nfl last year?

PhinFan0202
05-28-2006, 02:49 AM
Actually, while I certainly believe Surtain was the real star in our secondary, I think we are shaping up nicely. Nobody is talkin' about Will Poole as if he is anything. He is gonna' turn a few heads now that he is back. Allen, Hill and Allen along with Poole and Daniels? What's so messed up about that? I am satisfied.

Yeah i think Will Poole is going to be a stud in our secondary. He kept up with Chad Johnson the game two years ago sunday night against the Bengals. I like the depth that our secondary has now and the best part is Saban is going to keep adding more depth to it. It always seems like he's signing another corner or something to come in and compete for a job. He wants to mold or secondary into greatness which is something we definately need. Youth on the defense is essantial to be able to win consistently in the NFL.

Anthony D.
05-28-2006, 03:06 AM
umm was a huge part in the best defense in the nfl last year?This is true, but he did not do nearly what he did with Taylor on the opposite side.

Anthony D.
05-28-2006, 03:07 AM
But it is also true that Taylor benefited from having Ogunleye as well.

Anthony D.
05-28-2006, 03:08 AM
Yeah i think Will Poole is going to be a stud in our secondary. He kept up with Chad Johnson the game two years ago sunday night against the Bengals. I like the depth that our secondary has now and the best part is Saban is going to keep adding more depth to it. It always seems like he's signing another corner or something to come in and compete for a job. He wants to mold or secondary into greatness which is something we definately need. Youth on the defense is essantial to be able to win consistently in the NFL.It will come together for sure.

KingCrowder
05-28-2006, 05:29 AM
LOL:lol: We did not trade Surtain for Matt...We traded Surtain for the second round pick we used on Matt because all our cap money was tied up into high paid defensive players and we had Jay Fiedler type talent at QB. Nuff said on that. We also had one really crappy line and few good recieves. Now we have a REAL offense and an up and comming defense that will get younger and more talented each year.

If people want to factor in Culpepper as our 2nd round pick this year when they grade our draft. Than you have to Factor in that the Surtain trade was for Matt Roth. it's the same thing.

XXXSURTAINXXX
05-28-2006, 08:34 AM
I dont know if you guys know this or not.....

But trading Surtain for a 2nd round pick caused me a lot of pain and grief. It disturbed me. It confused me. It....It hurt me. Patrick is the sacrificial dolphin.

jlfin
05-28-2006, 08:43 AM
We traded Odawale Ogunleye for Marty Booker. I like Marty but this was a reach on our part to get offensive talent in here. Ogunleye with Taylor was amazing. Miss him alot.

We got Marty and a 3rd rd pick. Unfortunately that 3rd rounder was wasted. The Bears wanted to trade Terrell and a 3rd, but give credit to Spielman, he asked for Booker instead.
BTW Ogunleye is a solid player, but make no mistake the star on Chicago's D-line is Alex Brown (as was JT).Ogunleye is a good second tier player, he's not the franchise type DE that he and his agent thought he was.
I think Chicago overpaid him.

GoonBoss
05-28-2006, 08:51 AM
I dont know if you guys know this or not.....

But trading Surtain for a 2nd round pick caused me a lot of pain and grief. It disturbed me. It confused me. It....It hurt me. Patrick is the sacrificial dolphin.

There was just no way we could sustain the cap numbers on one side of the ball like we had. I don't understand what you mean by "The sacrificial Dolphin"....Players get traded/released all the time. It's buisness.

dolfanrodney
05-28-2006, 08:57 AM
If we had still had Surtain maybe we would have won one or two more games last year, made the playoffs, and who knows what we could have done with that, look at Pitt's 3 road wins and a championship.

cnc66
05-28-2006, 09:02 AM
If we had still had Surtain maybe we would have won one or two more games last year, made the playoffs, and who knows what we could have done with that, look at Pitt's 3 road wins and a championship.

I don't believe that. We would have been missing the guys that we couldn't have afforded. It was a cap neccessity.

Metal Panda
05-28-2006, 09:31 AM
I dont know if you guys know this or not.....

But trading Surtain for a 2nd round pick caused me a lot of pain and grief. It disturbed me. It confused me. It....It hurt me. Patrick is the sacrificial dolphin.

It had to happen though....the cap implications were too great.

chillwill3000
05-28-2006, 09:51 AM
ok Pat Surtain for Matt Roth y the hell did we make that trade ?


It was a money situation, Surtain would have cost us too much money.

Tigers2003
05-28-2006, 09:53 AM
I don't beleive our secondary was "a mess" last year. It wasn't exactly a strength but they did a pretty good job considering we were installing a new system and lost Poole who we were counting on to be a mojor contributor. I think this year with him back, drafting Allen, and all the other additions we can go from adequate to good, and perhaps even make it one of our strengths towards the end of the season.

We moved Surtain because his price was too high... and I think it was a good move. We wouldn't have had the room to be a true player for a QB in free agency this year had we paid him his market rate, and if we had just kept restructuring those high paid defensive players to finance the new additions this team would fall apart in a couple of years. I like the way Saban is building this team. I can't really find fault with any of the moves he has made so far.

Good observations. Always keep in mind that Saban has been a guru at getting the best out of available talent at safety and cb positions while as a college def. coord, head coach, and NFL coordinator (while at Cleveland under Bill b.). He can get the most out of this bunch. Will Poole, Will Allen, Travis Daniels, Allen etc. are more than enough to work with.

This is not a stellar defensive back field but we don't NEED that to have a basic foundation of solid play and the type of unit that can help the team go deep in the playoffs. This is because of the solid coaching in place for this unit.

On a another note, IMHO it has always been a correct assertion that a solid pass rush can hide weaknesses in the backfield. We have the pass rush to do the job AND the coaching to shore up any shotcomings in the backfield.

LarryFinFan
05-28-2006, 10:37 AM
We traded Odawale Ogunleye for Marty Booker. I like Marty but this was a reach on our part to get offensive talent in here. Ogunleye with Taylor was amazing. Miss him alot.


WE didnt' have a choice on that...to sign him would have blown the cap even worse than what it was at the time... That move was simply a move to get something for what would have been nothing...It turned out to be a good move, considering what would have gone down had we kept Wally even tho he didn't want to be here...

PHINANALYST
05-28-2006, 11:09 AM
You can't look at it as a straight up Surtain for Roth .... if we don't have that 2d rounder ... who knows how the rest of the draft shapes up for us ...

While Surtain was arguably the best corner the PHINS have ever had .... we have the potential to have the best overall defensive backfield we have ever had with the players and depth we have right now ....

SO, was that trade worth it -- YES ....

Many folks will cry that we don't have any 'big' names ... but the reality is ... performance CREATES big names .... and I firmly believe that we will have some 'big' names again in our secondary within 2 years.

cnc66
05-28-2006, 11:41 AM
You can't look at it as a straight up Surtain for Roth .... if we don't have that 2d rounder ... who knows how the rest of the draft shapes up for us ...

While Surtain was arguably the best corner the PHINS have ever had .... we have the potential to have the best overall defensive backfield we have ever had with the players and depth we have right now ....

SO, was that trade worth it -- YES ....

Many folks will cry that we don't have any 'big' names ... but the reality is ... performance CREATES big names .... and I firmly believe that we will have some 'big' names again in our secondary within 2 years.

nice analysis.:cooldude:

Nick Saban worked efn magic last year with what he had to work with. We had SO many holes and so few options. I miss Pat, I'm sorry he could not finish his career with us, but to keep him would have hurt us in many other areas. I cannot wait to see what Nick can do with THIS group. Our d-line did pretty darned good last year even with the rag tag group behind them. Imagine how much better the unit as a whole will be when strength isn't covering weakness. The constant scheming to disguise and cover weakness limited our playbook, and now that has been addressed, not completely, but in a big way. Barring injury, by mid-season, we MIGHT have one of the best units in football. I get all tingly over this... remember, by year three in Cleveland he had the number one unit, I believe we will too and the turnaround starts THIS year.

Metal Panda
05-28-2006, 11:59 AM
You can't look at it as a straight up Surtain for Roth .... if we don't have that 2d rounder ... who knows how the rest of the draft shapes up for us ...

While Surtain was arguably the best corner the PHINS have ever had .... we have the potential to have the best overall defensive backfield we have ever had with the players and depth we have right now ....

SO, was that trade worth it -- YES ....

Many folks will cry that we don't have any 'big' names ... but the reality is ... performance CREATES big names .... and I firmly believe that we will have some 'big' names again in our secondary within 2 years.

One thing I wish this board would understand--merely having a large quantity of warm bodies doesn't make a secondary great. I'm not saying that all of the players are just warm bodies, but a lot of people on here seem to think that just because we nabbed a bunch of people in the position in the offseason, that we're set for life now.

trate121hb
05-28-2006, 12:21 PM
ok Pat Surtain for Matt Roth y the hell did we make that trade ?

its called not being able to afford surtain.....lets all give this kid roth a chance

J dog
05-28-2006, 12:24 PM
that thread is all messed up

cnc66
05-28-2006, 12:26 PM
One thing I wish this board would understand--merely having a large quantity of warm bodies doesn't make a secondary great. I'm not saying that all of the players are just warm bodies, but a lot of people on here seem to think that just because we nabbed a bunch of people in the position in the offseason, that we're set for life now.

ohhh Rob, I think some of us get that. What we also have is confidence that if he could make last years group adequate, this group will shine. I know it's your job to keep us homers in line, but on this one I'm really confident.

DallasDolfan
05-28-2006, 12:39 PM
Marty (and Randy) will have a solid year with the opposing defenses focusing on stopping CC from catching the Deep Rock from C-Pep. RB will have a stellar year for the same reason along with a MUCH improved OLine and a stud FB blocking for him. And I strongly believe with the coaching these kids will get that we will have a Top 5 secondary this year, especially with our front 7. Mark my words, the Fins are going to be a force to be reckioned with this year.

Metal Panda
05-29-2006, 12:36 PM
ohhh Rob, I think some of us get that. What we also have is confidence that if he could make last years group adequate, this group will shine. I know it's your job to keep us homers in line, but on this one I'm really confident.

and believe me, I want the secondary to shine.

but I don't think last year's group was adequate. At times, our secondary was downright embarassing. BROOKS BOLLINGER lit us up like a christmas tree. there were flashes of good play but ultimately a lot of heartbreak.

I was glad they addressed the positio nin the offseason (and couldn't believe that one stupid tampa area writer who said it was a pick at a 'non-need' position when we got Jason Allen).