PDA

View Full Version : So much for "peaceful" NY protests...



PhinPhan1227
03-27-2003, 03:17 PM
On a side note, is it just me, or are the female "Pro-War" demonstrators generally MUCH hotter than the female "Anti-War" demonstrators?;)


In City, Protests Heating Up
Police weary of costly diversions


By Melanie Lefkowitz and Pete Bowles
STAFF WRITERS

March 27, 2003


Tens of thousands of marchers through midtown. Demonstrators lying down in the streets. Protests every day in Union Square. A coalition of anti-war groups planning to crash the "Today" show.

As the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq moves into its second week, the local protest movement is gaining momentum and police are growing wearier of responding to each event. Yesterday, several groups announced their plans to hold a "Die-In" this morning in Rockefeller Center, representing war victims by lying down in intersections and hoping to snarl traffic and "disrupt business as usual" to broadcast their opposition to the war.

"We will make people aware of what is happening in Iraq and make them stop and think that people are dying as they go about their lives," said Cheree Dillon, a spokeswoman for the M27 Coalition, an umbrella organization for dozens of anti-war groups.

Activists employed a similar technique at last week's massive anti-war protests in San Francisco, which closed down streets and led to thousands of arrests.

As part of today's planned demonstration, Dillon said, hundreds of protesters will converge in front of the windows of NBC-TV's "Today" show. They don't plan to halt the show, she said, "but if that is one of the consequences, so be it."

Though Police Commissioner Ray Kelly did not want to discuss the specifics of what he expects to happen at the scattershot protests, he said the ongoing roll of demonstrations is taking its toll on an already swamped department.

"We have finite resources, so you have to juggle these things," he said. "We have to anticipate violence or prepare for violence."

Coverage of the massive anti-war march held Saturday cost the NYPD an estimated $1.2 million, Kelly said. That's in excess of the $5-million bill for Operation Atlas' first week, he said.

The vast majority of more than 125,000 marchers on Saturday demonstrated peacefully, but a small contingent clashed with police at the march's end in Washington Square Park. Kelly said nearly half of the 91 people arrested Saturday were from out of town, and he believes a handful of people were simply "bent on having a violent confrontation with police."

Whatever happens today or at any of the protests planned for every day this week, Kelly said, the police will be ready.

"We're prepared to respond; we have certainly a lot of experience in this area," he said. "I don't know if people are out to disrupt life in the city. This is more than a protest, more than free speech - we're talking about violating the law."

WharfRat
03-27-2003, 03:22 PM
:shakeno:

Penthos
03-27-2003, 03:23 PM
So much for "peaceful" NY protests...

91 out of 125,000 protestors were arrested... thats less than 1%... ANY group contains at least 1% A$$holes...

Dolfan984
03-27-2003, 03:58 PM
Actually, from the college courses I've taken, the liberals are MUCH MUCH hotter than the conservatives.

Barbarian
03-27-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by 13isgr81
91 out of 125,000 protestors were arrested... thats less than 1%... ANY group contains at least 1% A$$holes...

Do you honestly believe that those were the only ones commiting violent acts?

I'm not saying it was a huge number, because I wasn't there (unlike the ones in SF) but I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument, however.

Barbarian
03-27-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227
On a side note, is it just me, or are the female "Pro-War" demonstrators generally MUCH hotter than the female "Anti-War" demonstrators?;)



Actually, from the college courses I've taken, the liberals are MUCH MUCH hotter than the conservatives.

Can you both show pictures to back up both of your sides of this. ;) :evil:

baccarat
03-27-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Barbarian
Can you both show pictures to back up both of your sides of this. ;) :evil:

I agree. Show some evidence to back up your claim!

Penthos
03-27-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Barbarian
Do you honestly believe that those were the only ones commiting violent acts?

I'm not saying it was a huge number, because I wasn't there (unlike the ones in SF) but I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument, however.


Thanks but there is not "flaw" in my argument... Because the point of it remains the same there are a$$holes in every group.... This is a classic case of indentifying the acts of the extremeists of a particular movement with the actual majority...

Its like me saying that ALL republicans hold the same separationist views as Trent Lott, or that because a few anit-abortionists bomb clinics that all anti-abortionists are murderous bombers... Its not true but its good propaganda... and a good way to rally the troops...

PhinPhan1227
03-27-2003, 04:30 PM
See new link

Barbarian
03-27-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by 13isgr81
Thanks but there is not "flaw" in my argument... Because the point of it remains the same there are a$$holes in every group.... This is a classic case of indentifying the acts of the extremeists of a particular movement with the actual majority...

Its like me saying that ALL republicans hold the same separationist views as Trent Lott, or that because a few anit-abortionists bomb clinics that all anti-abortionists are murderous bombers... Its not true but its good propaganda... and a good way to rally the troops...

I don't think he said that "All" protesters were violent.

At least thats not what I read from his post.

If thats what you were getting from his posts, then yeah, your point is valid, but as I interpreted what he posted, yeah, it would be a flawed argument.

I guess it depends on how you interpret his origeonal post.

Barbarian
03-27-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by 13isgr81
Thanks but there is not "flaw" in my argument... Because the point of it remains the same there are a$$holes in every group.... This is a classic case of indentifying the acts of the extremeists of a particular movement with the actual majority...

Its like me saying that ALL republicans hold the same separationist views as Trent Lott, or that because a few anit-abortionists bomb clinics that all anti-abortionists are murderous bombers... Its not true but its good propaganda... and a good way to rally the troops...

Basically the way that I read it would have been similar to if a liberal/moderate had made a comment bout the 2002 GOP National Convention and made a comment like "So much for Caring Conservatives..."

Penthos
03-27-2003, 04:56 PM
I can live with that :)

PhinPhan1227
03-27-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by 13isgr81
Thanks but there is not "flaw" in my argument... Because the point of it remains the same there are a$$holes in every group.... This is a classic case of indentifying the acts of the extremeists of a particular movement with the actual majority...

Its like me saying that ALL republicans hold the same separationist views as Trent Lott, or that because a few anit-abortionists bomb clinics that all anti-abortionists are murderous bombers... Its not true but its good propaganda... and a good way to rally the troops...


The point of my post was to refute the earlier contention that...unlike the SF protests, the NY protests have been peaceful. Of course the majority of protestors were peaceful, they always are. But even with a couple of hundred thousand protestors, there doesn't have to be a violent core. There have been any number of protests/demonstrations which had even more people than the NY protests which had nowhere NEAR the number of idiots this march did. In a nutshell, with almost a hundred people breaking the law, you just can't characterize this as a "peaceful" protest. Heck, I fully agree that every large group has a significant number of idiots...it's just a matter of whether those idiots choose to break the law.

Penthos
03-27-2003, 05:19 PM
But even with a couple of hundred thousand protestors, there doesn't have to be a violent core.

Why do you assume that the relative handful of violent protestors represent the core....? I just want to ask you if you really believe that is a sound assumption....?

This is the one the thing that I hate about the 2 party system... All it does is divide people among those lines... Us or them, friend or foe.... We are all conditioned to assume and argue that the extremeists are the heart of either side, which I don't think is the case....

We discredit each other with terms like "Hate Monger" and "Bleeding Heart" which in truth only represent a the most extreme interpretation of each ideal...

My point is this... yea, dems and reps disagree on a lot of things... but do we always have assume the worst of each other and our respective motives because we don't view something the same way? How productive is that...?

PhinPhan1227
03-27-2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by 13isgr81
Why do you assume that the relative handful of violent protestors represent the core....? I just want to ask you if you really believe that is a sound assumption....?

This is the one the thing that I hate about the 2 party system... All it does is divide people among those lines... Us or them, friend or foe.... We are all conditioned to assume and argue that the extremeists are the heart of either side, which I don't think is the case....

We discredit each other with terms like "Hate Monger" and "Bleeding Heart" which in truth only represent a the most extreme interpretation of each ideal...

My point is this... yea, dems and reps disagree on a lot of things... but do we always have assume the worst of each other and our respective motives because we don't view something the same way? How productive is that...?


You can call it a violent fringe(violent isn't exactly the right word...criminal is better), if you'd prefer...but either way, when you have an "element" which is like this, it's going to taint the group. Not EVERY Philadelphian is a jerk who would cheer an injury...but that's the rap they have because of some individuals. Maybe it's undeserved...but if they didn't want the image, they should do something about it. I can promise you, that while only 91 people took part in illegal activities, a much LARGER part of the crowd was cheering them on....and at the very least, the rest of the crowd did nothing to stop them. Look, the VAST majority of people who are against the war are good, solid people who love their country. But there's also an element within the anti-war movement that is at the very least against what America stands for, if not openly against America itself. There are also right wing elements who are against American ideals...and when people like them raise their ugly heads(Pat Robertson), I'll be there to shoot them down as well.