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Anthony D.
06-12-2006, 08:57 AM
June 12, 2006
In an exclusive column for MiamiDolphins.com, Dolphin Digest editor Andy Cohen writes that he had to admit that it was a strange feeling watching a quarterback the caliber of Daunte Culpepper on the Dolphins practice field, throwing one picturesque spiral after another. Mini-Camp 2006 came and went last weekend, but the memory of Culpepper, unveiled for the first time for media and fans, will remain vivid.
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://www.miamidolphins.com/pressbox/andycohen/andycohen.asp?lid=cohencolumn_061206) <----Click the details tab for full article.

MDFINFAN
06-12-2006, 09:14 AM
Great article, it makes me want to see football tomorrow start, but I'm glad there's almost 3 months left so DC can get healthier and Booker can recover, and the team can gel some more...but with DC hitting all these recievers and JH not looking too bad, plus clemons, I do wonder a little about our secondary.

Bjorn
06-12-2006, 09:26 AM
• Joey Harrington was a steal for a sixth-round pick. To have an insurance policy of his caliber behind Culpepper gives the Dolphins the type of security it badly needed. Suddenly, in one off season, you can make the argument that quarterback has become the strength of this football team.


Hah I take his word over PFT.:shakeno:

calphin
06-12-2006, 09:33 AM
Hah I take his word over PFT.:shakeno:





Amen!

ckparrothead
06-12-2006, 10:13 AM
Booker's ankle..wonder if it's one of those dreaded "high ankle sprains" that basically linger for like 2-3 months.

nyjunc
06-12-2006, 10:18 AM
Joey Harrington was a steal for a sixth-round pick. To have an insurance policy of his caliber behind Culpepper gives the Dolphins the type of security it badly needed

What caliber is that?:lol: Obviously he has talent or he never would have been a top 5 pick but he hasn't shown any of that talent since coming into the league in '02 so I'm not sure what caliber he is referring to but the only caliber he has shown is that of a Browning nagle type.

Winbaby#23
06-12-2006, 10:20 AM
What caliber is that?:lol:Better caliber than anything the Jets have on there roster for qb.. and that's a fact.

Winbaby#23
06-12-2006, 10:23 AM
What caliber is that?:lol: Obviously he has talent or he never would have been a top 5 pick but he hasn't shown any of that talent since coming into the league in '02 so I'm not sure what caliber he is referring to but the only caliber he has shown is that of a Browning nagle type. And look at what team drafted him.. any top qb went to that team with that management and coaching would have had a rough time too. Hes got real coaching now.

nyjunc
06-12-2006, 10:26 AM
Better caliber than anything the Jets have on there roster for qb.. and that's a fact.

:lol:


And look at what team drafted him.. any top qb went to that team with that management and coaching would have had a rough time too. Hes got real coaching now.

Steve Mariucci made Jeff Garcia a Pro Bowl QB.

Winbaby#23
06-12-2006, 10:31 AM
:lol:



Steve Mariucci made Jeff Garcia a Pro Bowl QB. Terrel Owens made Jeff Garcia a pro bowl qb. Now tell me who on the Jets is a good qb?? ummmm... you have crap for qb's and to think anything other wise i pitty the fool.:sidelol: :sidelol:

nyjunc
06-12-2006, 10:39 AM
Terrel Owens made Jeff Garcia a pro bowl qb. Now tell me who on the Jets is a good qb?? ummmm... you have crap for qb's and to think anything other wise i pitty the fool.:sidelol: :sidelol:

What happened to jerry Rice? In your orginal post you said TO and Jerry Rice. i guess you relaized your mistake quickly. Sure TO helped just as Moss made Daunte a PB QB but Mooch was instrumental and Mooch coached 4 PO teams in SF including a Conf title team. To say it was all coaching and none had to do w/ Harrington himself is ridiculous.

IF healthy we have a top QB playing for us but he can't stay healthy and our backup has at least shown something unlike Harrington. Again I don't want to turn this into another Daunte debate but go look up the Vikes record when he started and the Vikes record when someone else started since 2000 before you get too giddy and cocky about your QB situation.

tay0365
06-12-2006, 10:40 AM
:lol:



Steve Mariucci made Jeff Garcia a Pro Bowl QB.

Yet when Garcia was in Detroit, he could not make Garcia look good enough to be a starter, Hmmm, why do you think that may be?....Could it be that this time there was not a Receiver by the name of T.O to make both of them look good...You think?

Prime
06-12-2006, 10:44 AM
Come on guys! Don't turn this thread into smack just because a Jets fan is trolling in this thread.


After that being said, I think that Hagan is gonna be a HUGE steal for us. I actually think it's funny because he was like a 1-2 round guy and then dropped just because he had a poor senior bowl week and combine. I would be looking at his types through his whole college career, not just those two advents.

Winbaby#23
06-12-2006, 10:46 AM
What happened to jerry Rice? In your orginal post you said TO and Jerry Rice. i guess you relaized your mistake quickly. Sure TO helped just as Moss made Daunte a PB QB but Mooch was instrumental and Mooch coached 4 PO teams in SF including a Conf title team. To say it was all coaching and none had to do w/ Harrington himself is ridiculous.

IF healthy we have a top QB playing for us but he can't stay healthy and our backup has at least shown something unlike Harrington. Again I don't want to turn this into another Daunte debate but go look up the Vikes record when he started and the Vikes record when someone else started since 2000 before you get too giddy and cocky about your QB situation. Ramsey showed something?? When was this??? I need some of that crap your smoking, must be some good crap. Everytime you post you just make yourself look more and more like a fool. Everyone knows you don't know crap about football or you wouldn't post such ridiculous crap. :shakeno:

finlantern
06-12-2006, 10:46 AM
Harrington will be fine.He actually has a running game behind him now.Also he has recievers who won't drop 50 passes a game.Plus these coaches will show confidence in him.He's better than any other Qb we've had on the roster since "the man" himself.Dc & Joey,how can that not get anyone excited?

Predaphin
06-12-2006, 10:47 AM
Nice to see things are working out. I just hope he isnt overhyping things.

tay0365
06-12-2006, 10:50 AM
Listen, if Joey was coming here to be the starter, then maybe there is a bit to worry about, but he is going to be a backup for a team that has more receiving options for him to throw the ball to, is able to run the ball, and has a better Defense in case of a mistake or two.

BLITZKRIEG
06-12-2006, 10:50 AM
Junc's just nervous. It's obvious....

I'd be nervous too. Pennington or Ramsey???....That's like having to choose between "Lethal Injection or The Electric Chair???....:lol:

PHINZ RULE!!!!

butta247
06-12-2006, 10:54 AM
What caliber is that?:lol: Obviously he has talent or he never would have been a top 5 pick but he hasn't shown any of that talent since coming into the league in '02 so I'm not sure what caliber he is referring to but the only caliber he has shown is that of a Browning nagle type.

A higher caliber than any QB on the JETS roster.:D Seriously your franchise is the laughing stock of the NFL.:sidelol: When you get a coach who doesn't quit then come talk. Better yet when your team isn't recognized as the stepchild in your city then come talk. Oh and better than that when you play in your own stadium then maybe you can say something. Hope you are looking forward to watching Bollinger and Pennington (noodle arm who cost your team a fourtune...lol) this year. Im sure everyone on your message board is very optimistic about the 2006 season lol!!!!!!!!!!:sidelol:

butta247
06-12-2006, 10:58 AM
What happened to jerry Rice? In your orginal post you said TO and Jerry Rice. i guess you relaized your mistake quickly. Sure TO helped just as Moss made Daunte a PB QB but Mooch was instrumental and Mooch coached 4 PO teams in SF including a Conf title team. To say it was all coaching and none had to do w/ Harrington himself is ridiculous.

IF healthy we have a top QB playing for us but he can't stay healthy and our backup has at least shown something unlike Harrington. Again I don't want to turn this into another Daunte debate but go look up the Vikes record when he started and the Vikes record when someone else started since 2000 before you get too giddy and cocky about your QB situation.

Did you rally just say TOP QB:sidelol: for the JETS? Are you really refferring to Noodle Arm as a top QB? Thats exactly what I want on my team a QB that has a 20 yard deep ball. Noodle Arm throws like a girl:lol:

Anthony D.
06-12-2006, 11:00 AM
:lol:



Steve Mariucci made Jeff Garcia a Pro Bowl QB.Steve Mariucci should never have been an NFL head coach.

Anthony D.
06-12-2006, 11:03 AM
What happened to jerry Rice? In your orginal post you said TO and Jerry Rice. i guess you relaized your mistake quickly. Sure TO helped just as Moss made Daunte a PB QB but Mooch was instrumental and Mooch coached 4 PO teams in SF including a Conf title team. To say it was all coaching and none had to do w/ Harrington himself is ridiculous.

IF healthy we have a top QB playing for us but he can't stay healthy and our backup has at least shown something unlike Harrington. Again I don't want to turn this into another Daunte debate but go look up the Vikes record when he started and the Vikes record when someone else started since 2000 before you get too giddy and cocky about your QB situation.Oh please? Pennington? You think we are sweatin' Pennington? First time JT takes Noodle arm to the ground his career will be over and Patrick Ramsey will be your starter...lol. Patrick Ramsey. I hope you are not talking about Patrick Ramsey.

nyjunc
06-12-2006, 11:13 AM
Yet when Garcia was in Detroit, he could not make Garcia look good enough to be a starter, Hmmm, why do you think that may be?....Could it be that this time there was not a Receiver by the name of T.O to make both of them look good...You think?

could it be that Joey is just not a starting NFL caliber QB? He had weapons in detroit- every year they drafted O but he couldn't put it together.

nyjunc
06-12-2006, 11:14 AM
Oh please? Pennington? You think we are sweatin' Pennington? First time JT takes Noodle arm to the ground his career will be over and Patrick Ramsey will be your starter...lol. Patrick Ramsey. I hope you are not talking about Patrick Ramsey.

Chad at 70% last year beat you guys and cemented the game w/ his arm going 7 for 7 on the game clinching drive.

Winbaby#23
06-12-2006, 11:20 AM
Chad at 70% last year beat you guys and cemented the game w/ his arm going 7 for 7 on the game clinching drive. I will give you credit for one thing.. you do stick behind your team. Like your name nyjunc. You are right the Jets have nuttin but junk for players on there team, thats why you will be the perennial cellar dwellars for the next 5 years.:sidelol: :sidelol:

Winbaby#23
06-12-2006, 11:22 AM
Chad at 70% last year beat you guys and cemented the game w/ his arm going 7 for 7 on the game clinching drive. Yeah, against a ****ty secondary. Let him try his 5 yard outs this year and see how far it goes. Pennington is washed up and so are the Jets as a team.. They couldn't even keep there coach because he knew his team was gonna be crap for years to come. :sidelol:

Anthony D.
06-12-2006, 11:27 AM
Junc's just nervous. It's obvious....

I'd be nervous too. Pennington or Ramsey???....That's like having to choose between "Lethal Injection or The Electric Chair???....:lol:

PHINZ RULE!!!!More like choosing between Feeley or Fiedler.

Anthony D.
06-12-2006, 11:28 AM
Chad at 70% last year beat you guys and cemented the game w/ his arm going 7 for 7 on the game clinching drive.Fiedler and Feeley had days like that too, but overall, they sucked donkey *****.

Hasta
06-12-2006, 11:32 AM
Hey guys, take it easy with all the smack talk. Patrick Ramsey and Joey Harrington are probably a coin flip as back-ups (one's named after a condom and one doesn't realize that you should stop going by Joey after you turn 12). I'd be willing to wait till we play the Jets and see how it comes out. :)

It is great to hear that mini-camp went so well...but I pretty much look like an all-star in shorts.

nyjunc
06-12-2006, 11:51 AM
Yeah, against a ****ty secondary. Let him try his 5 yard outs this year and see how far it goes. Pennington is washed up and so are the Jets as a team.. They couldn't even keep there coach because he knew his team was gonna be crap for years to come. :sidelol:

This year he'll have to do it against Will Allen:sidelol:

3P
06-12-2006, 11:56 AM
On topic, please.

Winbaby#23
06-12-2006, 11:56 AM
This year he'll have to do it against Will Allen:sidelol:You laugh but Will Allen is better than anyone you have at corner. Now that's some funny crap laughing at someone who is better than anyone you have at that postion on your team. Another one of your stupid homer threads talking before you think.:sidelol: :sidelol:

TheMageGandalf
06-12-2006, 01:31 PM
What caliber is that?:lol: Obviously he has talent or he never would have been a top 5 pick but he hasn't shown any of that talent since coming into the league in '02 so I'm not sure what caliber he is referring to but the only caliber he has shown is that of a Browning nagle type.


1996 Jets = 2006 Jets

Have fun this season!

That is all.

DOLFANMIKE
06-12-2006, 07:14 PM
What caliber is that?:lol: Obviously he has talent or he never would have been a top 5 pick but he hasn't shown any of that talent since coming into the league in '02 so I'm not sure what caliber he is referring to but the only caliber he has shown is that of a Browning nagle type.
I'd take him over anyone on the Browns roster. Is D'Brickshaw playing QB for you guys?

twg76
06-12-2006, 08:16 PM
June 12, 2006
In an exclusive column for MiamiDolphins.com, Dolphin Digest editor Andy Cohen writes that he had to admit that it was a strange feeling watching a quarterback the caliber of Daunte Culpepper on the Dolphins practice field, throwing one picturesque spiral after another. Mini-Camp 2006 came and went last weekend, but the memory of Culpepper, unveiled for the first time for media and fans, will remain vivid.
http://63.251.159.231/images/home/button_detailsinside.gif (http://www.miamidolphins.com/pressbox/andycohen/andycohen.asp?lid=cohencolumn_061206) <----Click the details tab for full article.

I wasn't able to get much insight into the defense during this minicamp. Jason Allen seemed to be non-existent due to sickness. Thomas looks as good as ever. The red jersey was for show. He will be ready to go come preseason. Taylor looked annoyed by the minicamp. Allen looks like a guy with alot of talent. Will he put it toegther consistently? Who knows.

The offensive side of the ball had a lot more to show us. Obviously, Culpepper was the biggest sight to see. He looks really good considering what happened last year. He should be ready to go by September as long as things keep rolling along in his rehab. Ronnie looks healthy. The wide receiver position is loaded with talent now. I could go on and on about it.

Chambers looks ready to dominate at the #1 WR position. It is there for the taking. Booker is a different story. He is a good receiver, but now he has some competition behind him. If he gets injured in the regular season, Hagan will probably be asked to fill his role. Welker is poised to be the #3WR/slot receiver. Welker is quick and tough - great for picking up the first downs. Campbell will probably see alot of action on special teams and maybe in four WR packages.

For the record, McMichael looked a bit overweight in this minicamp. He definitely moved slow. I don;t know if he plans on playing heavier this season or what. The extra 5-8 pounds will only slow him down in the receiving game. But maybe he will do more blocking and short, tough gain reception work. Personally, I would like to see McMichael drop 8 pounds and make another big impact in the receiving game.

Breed
06-12-2006, 10:55 PM
What caliber is that?:lol: Obviously he has talent or he never would have been a top 5 pick but he hasn't shown any of that talent since coming into the league in '02 so I'm not sure what caliber he is referring to but the only caliber he has shown is that of a Browning nagle type.

Horrible comparison, Nagle makes Harrington look like Marino.

Nagle never completed more than 49.61% of his passes in a season. Nagle never averaged more than 5.87 ypa in a season. Nagle threw 8 TDs his entire career, compared to 20 INTs. Nagle's career QB rating was 53.47, Harrington's QB rating is currently 68.1. Harrington has a 75.28 QB rating since '04.


could it be that Joey is just not a starting NFL caliber QB? He had weapons in detroit- every year they drafted O but he couldn't put it together.

How often has Charles Rogers seen the field? Wes Welker outperformed Mike Williams, and for all the talent Roy Williams has......he's never had more than 817 receiving yards in a season. Harrington had solid weapons, but they were nothing great.


IF healthy we have a top QB playing for us but he can't stay healthy and our backup has at least shown something unlike Harrington.

Harrington has performed at a similar level (as Ramsey), Harrington has a 75.28 QB rating since '04. Frerotte had a 71.9 QB rating last year, and a 75.3 QB rating for his career. If Harrington does start the first few games of the season, a 75.28 QB rating wouldn't be too bad.


Again I don't want to turn this into another Daunte debate but go look up the Vikes record when he started and the Vikes record when someone else started since 2000 before you get too giddy and cocky about your QB situation.

"Games started" can be misleading, I prefer to look at the games where he received the majority of playing time. Culpepper went 3/4 for 28 yards passing, he also had 18 yards on 1 rushing attempt, but if you go by games started it counts as a loss against Culpepper.

As I stated in another post, Culpepper is 38-41 in games where he's had 10 or more attemplts while Pennington is 21-20 while playing behind a much better defense.

Culpepper's backups have went a combined 10-7 since '00, Pennington's backups have went a combined 18-21 since 01. The backups that have played under Culpepper have also been much better than the ones that have played under Pennington, in addition to the Jets having a far better defense.

nyjunc
06-13-2006, 07:37 AM
You laugh but Will Allen is better than anyone you have at corner. Now that's some funny crap laughing at someone who is better than anyone you have at that postion on your team. Another one of your stupid homer threads talking before you think.:sidelol: :sidelol:

ypu've never watched Will Allen play, he is medicore at best and that's being generous. Our corners are very solid- david Barret is definitely better than Allen and Dyson is probably better w/ Justin Miller developing he should be alot better.


1996 Jets = 2006 Jets

Have fun this season!

That is all.


I can't wait for this season, we'll struggle a bit but we'll be better than last year and are building some nice pieces.


I'd take him over anyone on the Browns roster. Is D'Brickshaw playing QB for you guys?


I think I'd take my chances w/ Charlie Frye, he hasn't had a chance to prove himself while Harrington has proved he can't play in this league.


I wasn't able to get much insight into the defense during this minicamp.

There's not much to take out of any minicamp except maybe reps for the QBs.


Horrible comparison, Nagle makes Harrington look like Marino.

Nagle never completed more than 49.61% of his passes in a season. Nagle never averaged more than 5.87 ypa in a season. Nagle threw 8 TDs his entire career, compared to 20 INTs. Nagle's career QB rating was 53.47, Harrington's QB rating is currently 68.1. Harrington has a 75.28 QB rating since '04.


It was a joke but but his caliber is alot closer to nagle thanto a competetnt NFL QB.


How often has Charles Rogers seen the field? Wes Welker outperformed Mike Williams, and for all the talent Roy Williams has......he's never had more than 817 receiving yards in a season. Harrington had solid weapons, but they were nothing great.


I have seen dolphin fans go crazy for Chambers the last few years when he never even had a 1,000 yd season and now 817 minus a few games isn't good? In 5 less games on a much worse team Willaims had 6 more TDs 1 less rec and about 100 less yds than Chambers his 1st 2 years. Rogers has been a huge disappointment as has Kevin Jones but it starts at the top and Joey has been the leader of this very talented, underachieving offense.


Harrington has performed at a similar level (as Ramsey), Harrington has a 75.28 QB rating since '04. Frerotte had a 71.9 QB rating last year, and a 75.3 QB rating for his career. If Harrington does start the first few games of the season, a 75.28 QB rating wouldn't be too bad.


Harrington has a career 68 rating while Ramsey has a 75 and harrington has pretty much been the starter since Day 1 while Ramsey has been yanked in and out.

Let's prorate Ramsey's #s tot he amount of games that Harrington has started:

1973 att, 1100 comp, 12,946 yds, 78 TDs, 56%, 66 INTs, (the skins are 10-14 in games he started prorate that to 55 starts and he'd be 23-32)

Joey's stats: 1802 att, 986 comp, 54.7%, 10242 yds, 60 TDs, 62 INTs(Lions were 18-38 when Joey started)


As I stated in another post, Culpepper is 38-41 in games where he's had 10 or more attemplts while Pennington is 21-20 while playing behind a much better defense.


Skew it anyway you want he's still an under .500 QB in a pathetic division and conference while Chad is still over. 500 in what ahs been the toughest div in football most of the last decade.

The one problem I have w/ your criteria is that Chad was hurt in the '04 Bills game and the Jets were winning, he tried to continue but was ineffective and the Jets lost. If he stays healthy the chances are we win. Same deal w/ last year vs. Jax, he was forced back into the game after he was hurt(and would be out for the year) and still guided us doen for the winning score but Chgrebet couldn't hold on in the EZ and we had to settle for OT. Again if healthy the chances are we win that game. Alos the Philly game in '03 where he had missed the 1st 6 games w/ injury then was thrust inot a close game midway through. That's tough to give him the L. That takes 3 off of your formula and even if you don't go and check the Jets record when Chad does not play- it isn't pretty and to me that is the real value of a QB. The Jets were significantly worse w/o Chad while the Vikes were better w/o Daunte.


Culpepper's backups have went a combined 10-7 since '00, Pennington's backups have went a combined 18-21 since 01.

You cannot use since '01 since Chad was not the starter in '01. How can you use Vinny's 10 wins when he was the starter? The Jets w/o Chad since 2002(when he became the starter) have gone 7-17.


The backups that have played under Culpepper have also been much better than the ones that have played under Pennington, in addition to the Jets having a far better defense.

An Old Vinny Testaverde and Brooks Bollinger have been better than Todd Bouman, Gus Frerotte and Brad Johnson? REALLY?????

Isn't it a coincidence that once Daunte got hurt last year and the Vikes QB stopped turning it over that the D played MUCH better? I found that interesting and it's also interesting that it was the Vikes highest ranking in poitns allowed since 1999- the year BEFORE Daunte got the starting job.

Breed
06-17-2006, 01:54 PM
It was a joke but but his caliber is alot closer to nagle thanto a competetnt NFL QB.

As I pointed out earlier, Nagle never completed more than 49.61% of his passes in a season. Nagle never averaged more than 5.87 ypa in a season. Nagle threw 8 TDs his entire career, compared to 20 INTs. Nagle's career QB rating was 53.47, Harrington's QB rating is currently 68.1. Harrington has a 75.28 QB rating since '04.

If your definition of a "competent NFL QB" is a 75 QB rating, the differnce between the average (or competent NFL QB) QB and Joey Harrington is 6.9 points; the difference between Harrington's QB rating and Nagle's QB rating is 14.63 points. If your definition of a "competent NFL QB" is a QB rating around 80 (pretty solid QB rating), than the difference between a competent NFL QB and Joey Harrington is 11.9 points.


I think I'd take my chances w/ Charlie Frye, he hasn't had a chance to prove himself while Harrington has proved he can't play in this league.

Harrington has a 75.28 QB rating the past 2 seasons, but he's already proven he can't play in the NFL?


I have seen dolphin fans go crazy for Chambers the last few years when he never even had a 1,000 yd season and now 817 minus a few games isn't good?

When Roy Williams has been on the field, he's been good (maybe even a little better than what Chambers was at that stage in his career); but he has missed games. What kind of weapons did Harrington have in the games Roy Williams missed? As I noted earlier, Harrington has had solid weapons, but certainly nothing great.


In 5 less games on a much worse team Willaims had 6 more TDs 1 less rec and about 100 less yds than Chambers his 1st 2 years. Rogers has been a huge disappointment as has Kevin Jones but it starts at the top and Joey has been the leader of this very talented, underachieving offense.

So now it's Harrington's fault Roy Williams and Charles Rogers have missed all those games.........


Harrington has a career 68 rating while Ramsey has a 75 and harrington has pretty much been the starter since Day 1 while Ramsey has been yanked in and out.

Let's prorate Ramsey's #s tot he amount of games that Harrington has started:

1973 att, 1100 comp, 12,946 yds, 78 TDs, 56%, 66 INTs, (the skins are 10-14 in games he started prorate that to 55 starts and he'd be 23-32)

Joey's stats: 1802 att, 986 comp, 54.7%, 10242 yds, 60 TDs, 62 INTs(Lions were 18-38 when Joey started).

Fumbles lost
Harrington-8
Ramsey-12

Harrington has also had a lot more playing time.

Adjusted QB rating (factoring in rushing TDs and fumbles lost)
Ramsey-70.27
Harrington-66.57

Completion %
Ramsey-55.75
Harrington-54.72

Yards per attempts (passing)
Ramsey-6.56
Harrington-5.68

TD %
Ramsey-3.97% (36 TDs in 906 attempts), 1 TD every 25.17 attempts
Harrington-3.14% (60 TDs in 1,911 attempts), 1 TD every 30.85 attempts

TO %
Ramsey-4.53% (41 TOs in 906 attempts), 1 TO every 22.1 attempts.
Harrington-3.66% (70 TOs in 1,911 attempts), 1 TO every 27.3 attempts.

Yards per carry
Ramsey-1.84 (83 yards on 43 carries)
Harrington-3.17 (345 yards on 109 carries)


Skew it anyway you want he's still an under .500 QB in a pathetic division and conference while Chad is still over. 500 in what ahs been the toughest div in football most of the last decade.

I'm not the one skewing the numbers. What's more accurate, going by starts (where both QBs have had several games under 10 attempts, mostly due to injury) or going by the games where Culpepper/Pennington got the majority of playing time? 38-41 isn't much different from 21-20, considering Pennington has played behind much better defenses.


The one problem I have w/ your criteria is that Chad was hurt in the '04 Bills game and the Jets were winning, he tried to continue but was ineffective and the Jets lost.If he stays healthy the chances are we win.

What's your point? He wasn't healthy, and he did get the majority of snaps in that game.


Same deal w/ last year vs. Jax, he was forced back into the game after he was hurt(and would be out for the year) and still guided us doen for the winning score but Chgrebet couldn't hold on in the EZ and we had to settle for OT. Again if healthy the chances are we win that game. Alos the Philly game in '03 where he had missed the 1st 6 games w/ injury then was thrust inot a close game midway through. That's tough to give him the L. That takes 3 off of your formula and even if you don't go and check the Jets record when Chad does not play

Did he get the majority of snaps in those games? Did he get enough snaps to make an impact on the game? etc.


....it isn't pretty and to me that is the real value of a QB. The Jets were significantly worse w/o Chad while the Vikes were better w/o Daunte.

You're right, Culpepper is no better than his backups:rolleyes2


You cannot use since '01 since Chad was not the starter in '01. How can you use Vinny's 10 wins when he was the starter? The Jets w/o Chad since 2002(when he became the starter) have gone 7-17..

The '01 Jets defense was pretty similar to the '02 Jets defense.......


An Old Vinny Testaverde and Brooks Bollinger have been better than Todd Bouman, Gus Frerotte and Brad Johnson? REALLY?????

The '01 Vinny Testeverde put up a 75.3 QB rating, his career QB rating is 75.2. Brad Johnson has an 84.4 career QB rating, he put up an 88.9 QB rating last year. Brad Johnson has accounted for 70% of the (backups) wins. Bouman was 1-4 as a backup.

Pennington has never had a backup QB anywhere near Brad Johnson's calibur.


I found that interesting and it's also interesting that it was the Vikes highest ranking in poitns allowed since 1999- the year BEFORE Daunte got the starting job.

Isn't it a coincidence that once Daunte got hurt last year and the Vikes QB stopped turning it over that the D played MUCH better?

The Vikings went from 296 points given up in 1998 (6th best in scoring defense) to 335 points given up (18th in scoring defense) in 1999; their defense was already on the decline.

Culpepper turned it over 17 times in '03, but the Vikings were 23rd in scoring defense. Culpepper turned the ball over only 15 times in '04, yet the Vikings were 26th in scoring defense.

EBMisfit
06-17-2006, 06:35 PM
Thats exactly what I want on my team a QB that has a 20 yard deep ball. Noodle Arm throws like a girl:lol:Please don't insult girls like that.

EBMisfit
06-17-2006, 06:37 PM
could it be that Joey is just not a starting NFL caliber QB? He had weapons in detroit- every year they drafted O but he couldn't put it together.The question isn't about drafting O, but whether the O they drafted was any good and whether it was well-coached.

EBMisfit
06-17-2006, 06:49 PM
Adjusted QB rating (factoring in rushing TDs and fumbles lost)
Ramsey-70.27
Harrington-66.57

Completion %
Ramsey-55.75
Harrington-54.72

Yards per attempts (passing)
Ramsey-6.56
Harrington-5.68

TD %
Ramsey-3.97% (36 TDs in 906 attempts), 1 TD every 25.17 attempts
Harrington-3.14% (60 TDs in 1,911 attempts), 1 TD every 30.85 attempts

TO %
Ramsey-4.53% (41 TOs in 906 attempts), 1 TO every 22.1 attempts.
Harrington-3.66% (70 TOs in 1,911 attempts), 1 TO every 27.3 attempts.

Yards per carry
Ramsey-1.84 (83 yards on 43 carries)
Harrington-3.17 (345 yards on 109 carries)Sorry, but you're only allowed to adjust (prorate) those stats that support nyjunc's argument. All other stats just don't matter.

nyjunc
06-19-2006, 08:24 AM
As I pointed out earlier, Nagle never completed more than 49.61% of his passes in a season. Nagle never averaged more than 5.87 ypa in a season. Nagle threw 8 TDs his entire career, compared to 20 INTs. Nagle's career QB rating was 53.47, Harrington's QB rating is currently 68.1. Harrington has a 75.28 QB rating since '04.


Again I said Nagle was more of a joke b/c he barely played but he is closer to Nagle's level than that of a good QB. You are so caught up in rating it's ridiculous. WIns, putting your team in a position to win are what's important and Joey never did that.


If your definition of a "competent NFL QB" is a 75 QB rating, the differnce between the average (or competent NFL QB) QB and Joey Harrington is 6.9 points; the difference between Harrington's QB rating and Nagle's QB rating is 14.63 points. If your definition of a "competent NFL QB" is a QB rating around 80 (pretty solid QB rating), than the difference between a competent NFL QB and Joey Harrington is 11.9 points.


My definition of a competent NFL QB has nothing to do w/ rating. It has to do w/ how they lead a team and if they make plays when their teams need them. Fiedler was a competent NFL QB But I'm not sure he has a 75 rating.


Harrington has a 75.28 QB rating the past 2 seasons, but he's already proven he can't play in the NFL?


The Lions are 18-38 w/ Joey as the starter- that proves he hasn't proven he can play.


When Roy Williams has been on the field, he's been good (maybe even a little better than what Chambers was at that stage in his career

Roy missed 2 games in '04 and Joey led them to a 6-8 record. He missed 3 games in '05 and Joey led them to a a 4-6 record. Sure it's a little better but he's still 4 games under .500 w/ Roy which coincidentally is Daunte's career record so this all ties together.


but he has missed games. What kind of weapons did Harrington have in the games Roy Williams missed? As I noted earlier, Harrington has had solid weapons, but certainly nothing great.


I mentioned the weapons in an earlier post. He certainly had plenty of weapons, maybe they didn't develop as quickly as they should have b/c of the QB?


So now it's Harrington's fault Roy Williams and Charles Rogers have missed all those games.........

Where did I say that?


Adjusted QB rating (factoring in rushing TDs and fumbles lost)
Ramsey-70.27
Harrington-66.57


Where do you get this? Every other post it's about QB rating and that justifies to you whether a QB is good or not but now to help your argument you throw in a new rating?


I'm not the one skewing the numbers. What's more accurate, going by starts (where both QBs have had several games under 10 attempts, mostly due to injury) or going by the games where Culpepper/Pennington got the majority of playing time? 38-41 isn't much different from 21-20, considering Pennington has played behind much better defenses.


Chad is 5 gams over and has led us to the div rd each time he has played 3/4 of games whilet he jets are well under .500 w/o him. Daunte is 4 games under while onl;y leading Minny to 2 POs in 5 years(1 at 8-8) in a horrible div and conf and his team is 8 games better w/o him.


What's your point? He wasn't healthy, and he did get the majority of snaps in that game.


he was hurt and the Jets were winning, he couldn't throw at all after that and that's why we lost.


Did he get the majority of snaps in those games? Did he get enough snaps to make an impact on the game? etc.


Doesn't matter, he was badly hurt or coming in at a bad time in the game.


You're right, Culpepper is no better than his backups

Would you rather have the QB w/ good stats and 4 gams UNDER .500 or the QBs w/ mediocre stats and 4 games OVER. 500?


The '01 Jets defense was pretty similar to the '02 Jets defense.......

Chad didn't play in '01- how is this relevant?


Pennington has never had a backup QB anywhere near Brad Johnson's calibur.


I thought you were saying Chad's backups were better. I agre daunte has had better backups but Vinny and Johnson are comparable and either way the vikes backups won more than Daunte did while Chad's backups won alot less than he did and the jet backups faced a MUCH tougher sched.


Culpepper turned it over 17 times in '03, but the Vikings were 23rd in scoring defense. Culpepper turned the ball over only 15 times in '04, yet the Vikings were 26th in scoring defense.

i'm not blaming it ALL on Daunte but hsi TOs contribute greatly to the failures of the Viking D which is a major reason why they win more when he is OUT.


I'm still waiting for you to counter my argument from the "Jags" thread.