PDA

View Full Version : Kerry says US needs its own 'regime change'



Sniper
04-03-2003, 05:50 PM
Strong words from Senator John Kerry.

PETERBOROUGH, N.H. - Senator John F. Kerry said yesterday that President Bush committed a ''breach of trust'' in the eyes of many United Nations members by going to war with Iraq, creating a diplomatic chasm that will not be bridged as long as Bush remains in office.

''What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States,'' Kerry said in a speech at the Peterborough Town Library.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/093/nation/Kerry_says_US_needs_its_own_regime_change_+.shtml

ohall
04-03-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Sniper
Strong words from Senator John Kerry.

PETERBOROUGH, N.H. - Senator John F. Kerry said yesterday that President Bush committed a ''breach of trust'' in the eyes of many United Nations members by going to war with Iraq, creating a diplomatic chasm that will not be bridged as long as Bush remains in office.

''What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States,'' Kerry said in a speech at the Peterborough Town Library.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/093/nation/Kerry_says_US_needs_its_own_regime_change_+.shtml

Let me guess? He wants to be the leader of that new leadership.

Oliver...

Sniper
04-03-2003, 05:56 PM
I think in this case, he's trying to separate himself from the rest of the DNC candidates.

Personally, I think he's a globalist in sheep's clothing. He's got the ties with Big Business that I'm distrustful of. His wife is an heiress of Heinz Foods. Still, I have a hard time seeing him wage war with another country in order to get a lucrative contract for Heinz ketchup.:lol:

Sniper
04-03-2003, 06:07 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16153-2003Mar23.html

Sniper
04-03-2003, 09:30 PM
The GOP strikes back at Kerry

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22827-2003Apr3.html

Mr.Murder
05-01-2003, 09:37 PM
Bob Kerry served in NAM what the **** was Bush doing? Getting DUI's at a Texas Ag- Tech. Real leadership is by actions, something Bush has never led by. Hide in Texas and practice your golf game for months after 9/11, take orders from Powell and Cheney on what to do since you have no initiative or intelligence to do so on your own with Iraq.

iceblizzard69
05-02-2003, 06:55 AM
Actually, Bush was a airplane pilot in the National Guard...

PhinPhan1227
05-02-2003, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Bob Kerry served in NAM what the **** was Bush doing? Getting DUI's at a Texas Ag- Tech. Real leadership is by actions, something Bush has never led by. Hide in Texas and practice your golf game for months after 9/11, take orders from Powell and Cheney on what to do since you have no initiative or intelligence to do so on your own with Iraq.



"NAM"?..."NAM"? Did you JUST get done watching Born on the Fourth of July?

Mr.Murder
05-02-2003, 12:00 PM
Was an airplane pilot who never flew...was "learning to fly" by driving around drunk hitting on college chicks and maybe hassling the one long hair that would attend an AG Tech.
Bet for miraculously strange reason the draft list in his his zip code covered B name all the way names ending everything except a narrow category say for instance names ending BU... his dad was a war hawk why didnt he enlist in ARMY at the time or AIR FORCE since he liked to fly so damned much?
He was too STUPID to be a pilot his SAT's showed as much. Pilots had an IQ minimum target and he was a mile below it.
Oh nevermind FACTS do not matter when it comes to a guy who was never elected in the first damned place. Nobody remembers enron or a ****caved -in economy now.
You act like because nobody speaks out againt this ass clown he is right. Bush 's father and Cheney gave aid to Saddam in the 80s but I suppose he was a very nice guy back then and changed into a mean person later on huh?
People like me who have family there dont speak out publicly as much we want our people back here safe four to six years down the road. How many members of Congress have sons or daughters there fighting? ONE.
How many of the Bush kids are there , none, they are too busy buying fake scripts and driving doped up and slodhed on alcohol on YOUR streets.
Oh then again let's not bring facts into the matter. FACT kerry was based nam naval unit upriver in the delta. Bush ( who was militarily inept to even be considered a true pilot by the fact of their own evaluation standrads) was busy probably sitting in a cardboard box pretending it was airplane and pretending he was a soldier.
The military had a shortage of DUI pilots and Bush was on mission to change that FACT.

We want people back here and will change the leadership regime here this election, too bad he set back generations of the world view of our country and our people, people never booed our flag until BUSH. They arent booing us , they are booing this clown of a leader who is doing what he is told. He is no leader he is a yesboy to Dick and Colon, ironically fitting metaphors for this chain of command.
Go ahead convince yourself you are right and everyone else is wrong. In this country you have the right to be wrong. FACTS show he is making a lot off of this war, taking care of very close business interests. Once again concrete FACTS dont matter here. Does anything matter aside from what Bush wants? His next budget wants to virtually eliminate the VA funding for health care as well, especially dependents. You think a true soldier would even accept such a notion or allow it to become part of his own program?
Fake soldier, fake budget to care for them. PAR FOR THE COURSE.

themole
05-02-2003, 07:47 PM
What's up Jim?...Long time no see!:D

Sniper
05-02-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by themole
What's up Jim?...Long time no see!:D

Hey Mole.. What's up. I started this thread a while ago and was very surprised myself to see it on top.

themole
05-02-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Sniper


Hey Mole.. What's up. I started this thread a while ago and was very surprised myself to see it on top.

Good to have you back bro. Things beginning to thaw up your way?

Sniper
05-02-2003, 08:07 PM
Yes it is thankfully. I've been outside a lot lately which cuts down on my time here. I was able to start my garden last weekend. Got it rotortilled and will start sowing after Memorial Day. Spring turkey season opened yesterday so that along with trout season will get me outside more. What's happeing in So FL?

I just reread your message above and I think you mistook me for Mr. Murder? We're different people.

baccarat
05-02-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Sniper

I started this thread a while ago and was very surprised myself to see it on top.

I was about to ask you, didn't Kerry say this weeks ago? That article is dated 4/3/2003. One day away from being a month old.

Sniper
05-02-2003, 08:27 PM
It was a couple weeks ago... 4-3 to be exact.

The article is talking about John Kerry, but I think some people have him confused with Bob Kerrey. Both are distinguished Vietnam vets.

themole
05-02-2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Sniper


I just reread your message above and I think you mistook me for Mr. Murder? We're different people.

:confused:


Sniper...I'm in Nth Fl. between Jacksonville and Daytona Beach... right on the beautiful St. Johns River, farm country.

Spring Gobbler Season....nothing like watching ole Tom, fan his tail feathers and drag his wings in the sand in search of miss right... is there?:lol:

Do you use a fly rod for trout? Man I do love to flyfish!

Sniper
05-02-2003, 08:48 PM
Oops... my bad... I just thought that you thought that I was Mr. Murder. No biggie.

I know what you mean about those Toms... I heard one yesterday morning, but couldn't call him in. Hopefully, I'll get another chance this weekend.

I love flyfishing for trout! Problem is there are only a few good streams around here suitable for it. A local sporting goods store has a nice Orvis for sale and I'm thinking about getting it.

As much as I love flyfishing, I love bass fishing even more!

themole
05-02-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Sniper
Oops... my bad... I just thought that you thought that I was Mr. Murder. No biggie.

I know what you mean about those Toms... I heard one yesterday morning, but couldn't call him in. Hopefully, I'll get another chance this weekend.

I love flyfishing for trout! Problem is there are only a few good streams around here suitable for it. A local sporting goods store has a nice Orvis for sale and I'm thinking about getting it.

As much as I love flyfishing, I love bass fishing even more!

Cool...I love to bass fish also. We "Palatka" have hosted B.A.S.S. tourmaments here a couple of times. I don't care that much for tournament fishing but I do really enjoy fishing the Rodman Reservoir, St Johns and Oklawaha river. The Oklawaha is really nice. If you have seen very many of the old Tarzan movies then you have seen this river. It's fed by the Harris chain of lakes, Silver Springs and the Silver River and empties into the St. Johns about 8 miles below us. During the dry season the water in this river is crystal clear. Not very good for fishing when it's like this but very beautiful.

Sniper
05-02-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by themole


Cool...I love to bass fish also. We "Palatka" have hosted B.A.S.S. tourmaments here a couple of times. I don't care that much for tournament fishing but I do really enjoy fishing the Rodman Reservoir, St Johns and Oklawaha river. The Oklawaha is really nice. If you have seen very many of the old Tarzan movies then you have seen this river. It's fed by the Harris chain of lakes, Silver Springs and the Silver River and empties into the St. Johns about 8 miles below us. During the dry season the water in this river is crystal clear. Not very good for fishing when it's like this but very beautiful.

I went bass fishing a long time ago in Florida. I was 9 or 10 years-old at the time so I don't remember the names of the rivers or lakes we fished. I do know it was near Osteen, FL. Actually that town was founded by my mother's family... the Osteens. We have lots of family down there that we used to visit.

themole
05-02-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Sniper


I went bass fishing a long time ago in Florida. I was 9 or 10 years-old at the time so I don't remember the names of the rivers or lakes we fished. I do know it was near Osteen, FL. Actually that town was founded by my mother's family... the Osteens. We have lots of family down there that we used to visit.

Osteen is between Cocoa, Titiusville and Orlando. The head waters of the St. Johns. The river is very narrow there but excellent fishing. There are a few families of Osteens around here too. One branch originated from Haysi, Virginia. Good people.

Sniper
05-02-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by themole


Osteen is between Cocoa, Titiusville and Orlando. The head waters of the St. Johns. The river is very narrow there but excellent fishing. There are a few families of Osteens around here too. One branch originated from Haysi, Virginia. Good people.

I think the Osteens that homesteaded Osteen, FL came from NC, SC, or VA. I have to dig out the family history book to see for certain. I know I'm also related to the Gaskins which later became the Gatlins. I guess the spelling changed over the years.:lol:

If you know a Ray or a John Osteen chances are we're related.

BTW... I was going to ask you what your take was in the Isaiah reference in last nights speech. A very interesting verse choice.

themole
05-02-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Sniper


I think the Osteens that homesteaded Osteen, FL came from NC, SC, or VA. I have to dig out the family history book to see for certain. I know I'm also related to the Gaskins which later became the Gatlins. I guess the spelling changed over the years.:lol:

If you know a Ray or a John Osteen chances are we're related.

BTW... I was going to ask you what your take was in the Isaiah reference in last nights speech. A very interesting verse choice.

:lol: There are some Gaskins here also.

I enjoy geneology.

I'll have to find the transcripts of the speech. I was visiting inlaws and didn't get to watch.

PhinPhan1227
05-05-2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Was an airplane pilot who never flew...was "learning to fly" by driving around drunk hitting on college chicks and maybe hassling the one long hair that would attend an AG Tech.
Bet for miraculously strange reason the draft list in his his zip code covered B name all the way names ending everything except a narrow category say for instance names ending BU... his dad was a war hawk why didnt he enlist in ARMY at the time or AIR FORCE since he liked to fly so damned much?
He was too STUPID to be a pilot his SAT's showed as much. Pilots had an IQ minimum target and he was a mile below it.
Oh nevermind FACTS do not matter when it comes to a guy who was never elected in the first damned place. Nobody remembers enron or a ****caved -in economy now.
You act like because nobody speaks out againt this ass clown he is right. Bush 's father and Cheney gave aid to Saddam in the 80s but I suppose he was a very nice guy back then and changed into a mean person later on huh?
People like me who have family there dont speak out publicly as much we want our people back here safe four to six years down the road. How many members of Congress have sons or daughters there fighting? ONE.
How many of the Bush kids are there , none, they are too busy buying fake scripts and driving doped up and slodhed on alcohol on YOUR streets.
Oh then again let's not bring facts into the matter. FACT kerry was based nam naval unit upriver in the delta. Bush ( who was militarily inept to even be considered a true pilot by the fact of their own evaluation standrads) was busy probably sitting in a cardboard box pretending it was airplane and pretending he was a soldier.
The military had a shortage of DUI pilots and Bush was on mission to change that FACT.

We want people back here and will change the leadership regime here this election, too bad he set back generations of the world view of our country and our people, people never booed our flag until BUSH. They arent booing us , they are booing this clown of a leader who is doing what he is told. He is no leader he is a yesboy to Dick and Colon, ironically fitting metaphors for this chain of command.
Go ahead convince yourself you are right and everyone else is wrong. In this country you have the right to be wrong. FACTS show he is making a lot off of this war, taking care of very close business interests. Once again concrete FACTS dont matter here. Does anything matter aside from what Bush wants? His next budget wants to virtually eliminate the VA funding for health care as well, especially dependents. You think a true soldier would even accept such a notion or allow it to become part of his own program?
Fake soldier, fake budget to care for them. PAR FOR THE COURSE.


Does the "murder" in Mr Murder stand for what you did to the english language in this post? Sheesh!! Oh, and when you say that people didn't boo the American flag before Bush, are you just chosing to ignore the people who have been burning the American Flag since the 50's, or are you just too young to remember anything prior to the year 2000?

Mr.Murder
05-05-2003, 01:39 PM
In Canada you dip****, as for flag burning in other countries, if Iran was so anti-american why was IBM's Asian multinational HQ 2 blocks from the embassy never protested or had stone thrown at it???...they had maybe 20-200 people march around our embassy and appear before cameras, almost always the exact same few people too, most of their country was nonaggressive middle-class types who didnt speak out publicly so a small loud minority that claimed it was right and had the creator's blessing for its designs was calling the shots ?
Bush turned people in a NORAD allie against us in public sentiment and if you think otherwise just stay in Dade county at the polls and keep voting the same damned way.How often did people in our allied burn flags or boo our anthem until Bush was there?
Murdering the language- if using informal conversational sentence with understood subject from previous post is form of murdering literary taste then stop watching televsion, that is the accepted standard dialogue for such a format.

PhinPhan1227
05-05-2003, 02:08 PM
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and assume that you meant NATO rather than NORAD. You might want to do a little web search and see all the Anti-US protests that France has hosted. Or perhaps the Anti-Globalization rallies that started under Bill Clintons term in office. Or heck, we could go to all the Presidents who have been burned in effigy since before Nixon. Maybe the media in Canada doesn't cover those protests, but I can assure you that they're well covered here in the US. Lastly...I only comment on peoples grammar when their syntax makes it difficult to follow their train of thought. It's easy enough to misunderstand someone who expresses themselves clearly without throwing a poor grasp of the language into the mix. Actually...and please don't take this as an attack, because it's an honest question...what part of Canada are you from? Is English or Québécois french your first language?

Mr.Murder
05-05-2003, 07:50 PM
Just because a person voices an opinion that doesnt go along the lines of "George Bush is honest, upright, and the smartest man for the job" train of thought it doesnt mean that person is not from the United States. Way to answer factual with intelligent counterpoints on the FACT that he lined pockets with money from this war and is taking of care of his family business interest down the line as usual same way his pops did in his deservedly brief tenure.
Instead you throw some kind of insult about
unlearned foreigners into it. Canada is flight line for ICBM that originally used magnetic pole resonance for aiming assistance for missles, hence the North American Radar system reference . Canada was really just an enemy who didn't help us track how many deployable nukes were in air traffic so we could keep a counterbalance to pre-emptive strike deployed entire time of cold war as a first strike deterrent, no?
Their per capita income is higher, their health standards as well, and their education level is comparative. Canada is a terrible enemy that must be dealt with. That country harbors terrorists and is a haven for anti-American sentiment.
Invade Canada now to make them respect our President whose test scores merited below avaerage scholarship were it not for fact his Dad contributed heavily to an Ivy League school in monetary terms he would have never been admitted there.

As stated from the post replied on before the understood subject in previous post was carried over and such is accepted format for video script dialogues, sorry for the syntax caused.

And finally I think our Constituion was worded strong and clear, with this simple and profound principle... ONE MAN, ONE VOTE.

Wait that doesnt hold true in your state thanks for screwing up the representative electoral college further. When you come up with a clear reason why ONE MAN, ONE VOTE is not part of what makes America great, and can show in our history when we adhered such principle, check back in and tell others.

ONE MAN ONE VOTE...

ohall
05-05-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Just because a person voices an opinion that doesnt go along the lines of "George Bush is honest, upright, and the smartest man for the job" train of thought it doesnt mean that person is not from the United States. Way to answer factual with intelligent counterpoints on the FACT that he lined pockets with money from this war and is taking of care of his family business interest down the line as usual same way his pops did in his deservedly brief tenure.
Instead you throw some kind of insult about
unlearned foreigners into it. Canada is flight line for ICBM that originally used magnetic pole resonance for aiming assistance for missles, hence the North American Radar system reference . Canada was really just an enemy who didn't help us track how many deployable nukes were in air traffic so we could keep a counterbalance to pre-emptive strike deployed entire time of cold war as a first strike deterrent, no?
Their per capita income is higher, their health standards as well, and their education level is comparative. Canada is a terrible enemy that must be dealt with. That country harbors terrorists and is a haven for anti-American sentiment.
Invade Canada now to make them respect our President whose test scores merited below avaerage scholarship were it not for fact his Dad contributed heavily to an Ivy League school in monetary terms he would have never been admitted there.

As stated from the post replied on before the understood subject in previous post was carried over and such is accepted format for video script dialogues, sorry for the syntax caused.

And finally I think our Constituion was worded strong and clear, with this simple and profound principle... ONE MAN, ONE VOTE.

Wait that doesnt hold true in your state thanks for screwing up the representative electoral college further. When you come up with a clear reason why ONE MAN, ONE VOTE is not part of what makes America great, and can show in our history when we adhered such principle, check back in and tell others.

ONE MAN ONE VOTE...

Republicans and ppl who supported the war have those very same rights. Please do not ever forget that.

Oliver...

Mr.Murder
05-05-2003, 07:57 PM
ONE MAN, ONE VOTE.....

ohall
05-05-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
ONE MAN, ONE VOTE.....

Well I have 12 ppl in my family that are voting age, 12 ppl 12 votes. Guess what? We all vote Republican every damn time. :D

Oliver...

Mr.Murder
05-05-2003, 08:21 PM
Well your vote was counted, guess what... whole bunch of votes weren't counted, much less even allowed....those 12 votes equaled 36 or 48 in final ballot?
Every person is due those rights and equal say, the standard has been lowered when anything less happens.

Barbarian
05-06-2003, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
ONE MAN, ONE VOTE.....

Not in America... thanks to the F@#$&ing Electoral College. :yell:

PhinPhan1227
05-06-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Just because a person voices an opinion that doesnt go along the lines of "George Bush is honest, upright, and the smartest man for the job" train of thought it doesnt mean that person is not from the United States. Way to answer factual with intelligent counterpoints on the FACT that he lined pockets with money from this war and is taking of care of his family business interest down the line as usual same way his pops did in his deservedly brief tenure.
Instead you throw some kind of insult about
unlearned foreigners into it. Canada is flight line for ICBM that originally used magnetic pole resonance for aiming assistance for missles, hence the North American Radar system reference . Canada was really just an enemy who didn't help us track how many deployable nukes were in air traffic so we could keep a counterbalance to pre-emptive strike deployed entire time of cold war as a first strike deterrent, no?
Their per capita income is higher, their health standards as well, and their education level is comparative. Canada is a terrible enemy that must be dealt with. That country harbors terrorists and is a haven for anti-American sentiment.
Invade Canada now to make them respect our President whose test scores merited below avaerage scholarship were it not for fact his Dad contributed heavily to an Ivy League school in monetary terms he would have never been admitted there.

As stated from the post replied on before the understood subject in previous post was carried over and such is accepted format for video script dialogues, sorry for the syntax caused.

And finally I think our Constituion was worded strong and clear, with this simple and profound principle... ONE MAN, ONE VOTE.

Wait that doesnt hold true in your state thanks for screwing up the representative electoral college further. When you come up with a clear reason why ONE MAN, ONE VOTE is not part of what makes America great, and can show in our history when we adhered such principle, check back in and tell others.

ONE MAN ONE VOTE...

No insult was intended, merely a question. Your sentence structure is just VERY difficult to follow, and I was wondering if english was your first language, or if you learned another language first. I'd never degrade someone for having poor syntax in their second language, since most Americans are barely literate in english, which is most often their only language. If english is your first language however, your teachers should all be bitch slapped. As for NORAD/NATO...It seems a bit silly to say "a NORAD ally", when Canada and the US are the only members of NORAD. As Canada is also a member of NATO, it would seem to make more sense to use that organization if you're going to try to show that we've angered our own allies. This would seem to be especially true since NORAD has become largly defunct with the fall of the Soviet Union and drastic diminishment of tension over Russian/Soviet nuclear weapons. As for Canada itself...it's a lovely place. My brother-in-law is from Vancouver BC, and it's an amazingly beautiful city. I also spent time partying in Montreal, and I have to say that I've never seen more gorgeous women in one place in my life(if they would just shave their legs I would have been tempted to move there). None of this however changes the fact that your "factual" assertions that Bush has been lining his pockets from the war are based on innuendo and supposition. If you have a clue about American politics, you'll of course be aware of the fact that if the DNC had even tenuous proof of wrongdoing by the President, they'd have already demanded impeachment proceedings. And lastly, there were election irregularities all over the country. If you think Florida was worse than most, you will have to speak with the Democrat appointed Election officials of Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties who STILL haven't gotten their heads pulled out of their rear ends. Those were the counties that caused all the fuss, and those were all officials appointed, and chiefly populated by Democrats. Cheers.:rolleyes:

Mr.Murder
05-06-2003, 01:13 PM
Really? An judge appointed by a conservative prohibited further investigation of said place. Do you think it was the same guy who railroaded wiretap surveillance requests for flight school arabs as well, which then forced our law enforcemnt associations to submit Justice Dept'. for same and be denied likewise?


NORAD was supposedly what saved us from a preemptive nuke strike during cold was, and Canada helped us in that era, but apparently that country doesnt agree with us now and is our enemy despite over three decades of assisting us in a delicate balance of atom-splitting payloads being ready and availabe in minutes notice to deter such attacks on us. If that assistance doesnt define and allie then what does?

Great response to ONE MAN , ONE VOTE... tell me how that affected republican chances for victory as well...


Great comeback to the FACT that Bush's brother worked with company that purchased drill rights to gulf water from Kuwait as well, which led to our first war with Iraq. Is not hearsay, my source was a person with years of Oil industry background and retired Army Colonel as well.

PhinPhan1227
05-06-2003, 01:34 PM
Lol...so Bush's brother caused the first Gulf War...not the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein? It's SHOCKING that CNN hasn't covered THAT story yet. As for the inane tag line that the Florida Supreme Court decided the election....6 national newspapers conducted their own recount, and every one of them gave the majority of Florida votes to Bush. Of course, if you want to ignore that fact, you can always look at the fact that the courts JOB is make sure that the election is handled properly, and to rule on the proceedings. But the Dems apparently didn't have a problem with the courts stepping in when they allowed NJ's DNC to throw state law out the window in their Senatorial elections. As for our neighbors to the north...Canada is Canada. They're our ally now, and they'll be our ally tomorrow. If some of their citizens don't like us ending years of tyranny and torture in Iraq, that's their right. Plenty of people around the world have been hating America and Americans since we fought the Spanish/American war, and a few more in Canada aren't going to change things one way or the other...heck, at least they're not French...:) Oh, and lastly, NORAD did not single handedly keep WWIII from breaking out...maybe you should spend some time watching the history channel, or reading a more comprehensive study of the Cold War. NORAD was a tool just like the SOSUS system, and the current system of satelites for the detection of launches. What kept WWIII from breaking out was the fact that there were just enough brain cells on both sides of the planet to realize that 3/4's of the world glowing in the dark is a bad thing. Sheesh!!

Mr.Murder
05-06-2003, 03:17 PM
Well to hear you we never got help from Canada in any matters with world affairs and their country is uniformed, despite the fact their per capita income and education levels are above ours. Glad to see you have changed your viewpoints reasonably, a good bit of that country's citizens are more informed and do not choose to ignore solid business ties our supposed leader has there.
Saddam invaded Kuwait over the fact that their counrty leased oil drilling rights offshore that were cliamed by Iraq as well. Bush's son was directly involved with this as was Cheney . Those are facts and part of historical record and all the tail-sniffing you do to say otherwise cannot change that fact.

ONE MAN ONE VOTE....

PhinPhan1227
05-06-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Well to hear you we never got help from Canada in any matters with world affairs and their country is uniformed, despite the fact their per capita income and education levels are above ours. Glad to see you have changed your viewpoints reasonably, a good bit of that country's citizens are more informed and do not choose to ignore solid business ties our supposed leader has there.
Saddam invaded Kuwait over the fact that their counrty leased oil drilling rights offshore that were cliamed by Iraq as well. Bush's son was directly involved with this as was Cheney . Those are facts and part of historical record and all the tail-sniffing you do to say otherwise cannot change that fact.

ONE MAN ONE VOTE....

Lol...God bless ya MM, I do believe you went to the Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf school of rhetoric. I don't believe I ever said anything in any way negative about Canada...but perhaps you can produce any statement in which I did. As for Canada's citizens, as I said, they're entitled to their opinions. Those who don't like the actions of the United States are free to take whatever legal actions they like. And lastly, as for Iraq, they chose to invade a sovereign nation over disputed territory. They could have taken any number of other actions, but they chose invasion. Once they had invaded, they chose to rape Kuwait. If you want to try and excuse the actions of a mass murdurer by blaming them on Bush jr, I guess you'd also blame America for Pearl Harbor since we imposed an imbargo on Japan. One last thing...apparently you feel that Canada's higher per capita income and education levels entitle them to a louder voice for their opinions. I'll answer that by pointing out that Cuban Americans exceed Canadians in per-capita income and education and resoundingly support Bush and the war in Iraq. In fact, the majority of the votes that went against Bush were cast by the lower strata of American society in terms of education and income. So you'll have to make up your mind MM...If the opinion of the more well educated, affluent individuals carries more weight...doesn't that mean that the best people voted for the best man? :lol:

Mr.Murder
05-06-2003, 05:39 PM
4.0 Gpa, top ten, CO 88, ty... most of the Cuban vote for Bush was from that wirdo reno's decision to back the Elian extradition, the kid deserved to have some choice in the matter I believe.


What was done in Kuwait was terrible, but the fact that business interests challenged sovereignty still holds true as original reason conflict was started there and Cheney was nose deep in it, as was the Bush family.

Was nice of that conflict to come at the time that george's Bro Neil Bush was part of a big savings and loan scandal that was precurser to ENRON -type fiascos, a lot of honest taxpayers forgot the FACT that the President's brother (who was pardoned by his then-President father) was part of fraud that measured in the billions.



How many of the dumb uniformed voting populace lost money in the 401 k scandals? Friend of mine's dad lost 400k when market crashed. A majority of workers lost honest earned money.

Make smiley faces all you want, shows great maturity level for political discussion. It must mean you are correct and smarter than others as well.


Bush was a failure tax write-off for any business venture he ever pursued as well, being a person to end up dry-capping low grade high cost wells that were subsidized write-offs . Tell me how successful he was there, add a smiley face to it to prove you are right too, lots of people will send in replies about how intelligent you are.

PhinPhan1227
05-07-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
4.0 Gpa, top ten, CO 88, ty... most of the Cuban vote for Bush was from that wirdo reno's decision to back the Elian extradition, the kid deserved to have some choice in the matter I believe.




Lol...now you're going to tell us about the reasons the Cubans vote Republican. Sit down and take a little history lesson from a Cuban American. First and foremost, the Cuban population of America has been solidly Republican since JFK double crossed the Cubans in the Bay of Pigs. Since then, Republicans have been enjoying a solid block of Cuban voters who hold no love for any Dem candidate. As for Elian, as a person of Cuban descent, I think he should have been sent back the same day his father asked for him. He's a child, with a loving father, and no mother, of COURSE he should have been sent back. As for asking his opinion...I'll repeat that he's a child. Children don't get any choice in these matters and never have. Just ask yourself this question...if an American child was being held in Cuba, and his American father wanted him back, what would be the right thing to do? Oh...and isn't the "dumb uninformed voting populace" the very populace you were touting for "ONE MAN ONE VOTE"? Make up your mind MM! Are you the champion of the ignorant masses who were disenfranchised by the evil GOP...or are you the oligarchist who feels that the educated and wealthy know whats best? Oh, one last thing...Enron's "business model" was planned, and enacted under Bill Clintons watch, as was Global Crossing and WorldCom. They may have crashed when GW got into office, but the poison fruit was grown in Clintons garden. The people who lost their 401k's have no beef with George W, they'll have to look a few years back for that. There...rather than smilies, I've waxed poetic...better?

Mr.Murder
05-07-2003, 03:20 PM
Thanks for light on the Elian ordeal, few sentiments I got from it was people see a crying kid being taken away. As for the Bay fiasco, it was poorly planned, and Bush-Cheney did THE SAME THING to Iraqi Kurds during Desert Storm. You seem to be think that is ok to do , nice double standard.

PhinPhan1227
05-07-2003, 03:45 PM
Actually, I think Bush screwed the Kurds. The only reason they would have for liking us is the fact that we actually got the job done this time. You should REALLY ask a question before you jump to conclusions. I like Bush Sr as a person, but I think he completely pussed out on Iraq, and wasn't willing to take the international heat his son was to get the job done. In both the Kurds, and Bay of Pigs, you had an American President back out on promises to people who risked their lives on the basis of those promises. To be brutally honest, I wouldn't have argued had the Cubans, and then the Kurds filed suit against Kennedy and Bush Sr. In both cases lives were lost because of empty promises. Of course, none of that answers the question...are you a champion of the unwashed masses...or the monied elite? You've been arguing both sides of that coin for days.

Mr.Murder
05-07-2003, 07:53 PM
Kennedy didnt hand Catro poison gas either.Bush has done nothing to merit a presidential nomination, and he takes orders from other regardless, he said as much in interview.
Am middle-low level income, factory stuff, worked for Oil Tubing comapany . 20-28K range with overtime.

PhinPhan1227
05-08-2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Kennedy didnt hand Catro poison gas either.Bush has done nothing to merit a presidential nomination, and he takes orders from other regardless, he said as much in interview.
Am middle-low level income, factory stuff, worked for Oil Tubing comapany . 20-28K range with overtime.


Um...more information than I needed, but I'll remind you that what Bush did to merit the Presidency was win more electoral college votes than his opponent in a legal election. You can dislike the outcome, but you have no legal bearing to challenge it, or deny it's validity. If you want to stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and scream....

"LALALABUSHLOSTLALALABUSHLOSTLALALA"

....feel free. As I said before, the Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf school of rhetoric seems to have graduated another student.

Mr.Murder
05-08-2003, 12:52 PM
Great comeback on the helping saddam get poison gas point. Kennedy never gave Castro poison gas. Bush-Cheney did.

Great comeback, had about as much merit as Bush's election. One Man, One Vote...

PhinPhan1227
05-08-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Great comeback on the helping saddam get poison gas point. Kennedy never gave Castro poison gas. Bush-Cheney did.

Great comeback, had about as much merit as Bush's election. One Man, One Vote...


Perhaps you could back that claim up with a shred of proof? I know that backing up allegations with facts is foreign to you...but give it a shot anyway.

Mr.Murder
05-08-2003, 05:09 PM
Bush Cheney sent CIA advisors to Saddam during the Iraq-Iran war. Same time chemical weapons surfaced for use by Iraq during same time. Deductive reasoning. Kennedy was never a Castro ally, Bush Cheney were Saddam allies, go ahead and say they werent be a liar and ignore history, make smiley faces about it, really hurst my feelings.


ONE MAN, ONE VOTE...

PhinPhan1227
05-08-2003, 05:24 PM
Really? I never knew Wyoming was such a hotbed for government affairs. The Iran-Iraq war was waged between 1980-1988 correct? Wasn't Dick Cheney a US Representative to Congress from the great state of Wyoming from 1978-1988? Exactly how did he send chemical weapons to Saddam while serving as a US Representative? And George Bush was the Vice President from 1980-1988. Again, I wasn't aware that the VP at the time was running foreign affairs for Ronald Reagan. In fact, if any toxic chemicals WERE sent to Saddam by the US, it would have been under the orders of Reagan, or the current head of the CIA, neither of whom was George Bush. Lastly...if all you've got for proof is "We were friends with Saddam when he used chem weapons against Iran", you're an even more pitiful advocate for your cause than I had first assumed. Cheers. One last note...I get the strange feeling that Mr. Murder is actually Sniper "dumbing himself down" in an effort to get another voice for his agenda on thei board...just a feeling.

Mr.Murder
05-08-2003, 06:18 PM
Reagan was too busy making one liners for soundbites, he had no notion of what happened abroad. Bush and Cheney were right there in it. George senior took active involvement in foreign policy. Wait, I am wrong there, George was too busy meeting Noriega in those days, surely he didnt have plans for establishing oil business ties outside of the North American market his sons were firmly a part of.

Cheney went to Iraq, that much is factual information. He has business ties there that are matter of public record. Suppose while he was travleing under business matters for Halliburton he wasnt also doing covert work without being credited? Very possible.

Cheney and Bush were big oil business people to say they had more than causal aquaintance would be ridiculous.

Reagan forgot who he was half the time, barely made it through second term alone. Bush was behind the scenes calling more shots.George had more policy making than Ronnie, Reagan was the front man.

He did business there during such times, to assume he did no "politickin' " while there would be ridiculos assumption since Cheney resumed politics afterwards. Seems like he followed up where his business interests were, look at the results.

Sniper
05-08-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227
One last note...I get the strange feeling that Mr. Murder is actually Sniper

:rolleyes:

It wouldn't be the first time you were wrong. BTW... go share your feelings on that Oprah message board you told us all about and are so fond of.

PhinPhan1227
05-09-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Reagan was too busy making one liners for soundbites, he had no notion of what happened abroad. Bush and Cheney were right there in it. George senior took active involvement in foreign policy. Wait, I am wrong there, George was too busy meeting Noriega in those days, surely he didnt have plans for establishing oil business ties outside of the North American market his sons were firmly a part of.

Cheney went to Iraq, that much is factual information. He has business ties there that are matter of public record. Suppose while he was travleing under business matters for Halliburton he wasnt also doing covert work without being credited? Very possible.

Cheney and Bush were big oil business people to say they had more than causal aquaintance would be ridiculous.

Reagan forgot who he was half the time, barely made it through second term alone. Bush was behind the scenes calling more shots.George had more policy making than Ronnie, Reagan was the front man.

He did business there during such times, to assume he did no "politickin' " while there would be ridiculos assumption since Cheney resumed politics afterwards. Seems like he followed up where his business interests were, look at the results.


Ok...so what you're saying is that you have no proof that Bush or Chenney sold anything illegal or even unethical to anyone? What you DO have is Reagan was forgetful, and both Bush and Chenney had ties to the oil industry. Damn man...with that kind of detective work, you should get a job with the LA County Prosecutors office. It's obvious you're almost as good as the people who handled the OJ case. Sheesh!

PhinPhan1227
05-09-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Sniper


:rolleyes:

It wouldn't be the first time you were wrong. BTW... go share your feelings on that Oprah message board you told us all about and are so fond of.


Oh come now Snippy...we've all been wrong now and then. Afterall, you were sure that the Workers Paradise was going to work, and see how that turned out?...:lol:

Mr.Murder
05-09-2003, 01:21 PM
People didnt handle the OJ case, the media did. And the media has handled you just as well.

PhinPhan1227
05-09-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
People didnt handle the OJ case, the media did. And the media has handled you just as well.


So I'll again take that as "no, I have no proof showing any wrongdoing by Bush or Chenney beyond the fact that both were involved with oil, and Reagan was forgetful". Impressive.

Mr.Murder
05-09-2003, 03:34 PM
Have already stated so previously, Retired Army Colonel and former Gulf Shore area Oil wildcatter geological surveyor, was an Economics and Marketing professor at Arkansas State University, Mr. Garner told about Bush's ties to Oil in the Kuwait conflict, he knew people in Oil industry very well.

I suppose a Colonel who authorized air strikes for ground support of troops in NAM would lie about a leader having finacial ties to a place where troops were deployed and would be no proof.

Now take your childish smiley faces and posts that contain no factual merit in them and check back in here when you do.

PhinPhan1227
05-09-2003, 04:06 PM
Care to provide a link to Colonel Garner's comments? A number to contact him? Or is he related to that "girl from Canada" that every guy has had sex with when he's still a virgin and his friends ask?

Mr.Murder
05-09-2003, 06:11 PM
No he doesnt know your mother, I didnt annotate classroom notes. He is retired now. So much for not having facts. He is part-time consulatant for a major business firm now.
You are nothing more than mouthpiece for FOX news at best, stick to watching O'Reilly's sideways hairpiece mullet and improving your self esteem through its facade of integrity, the mental midget that your Avatar depicts is fitting irony enough.
Thanks anyways.

ohall
05-09-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227
Care to provide a link to Colonel Garner's comments? A number to contact him? Or is he related to that "girl from Canada" that every guy has had sex with when he's still a virgin and his friends ask?

1227 why are you wasting your time? Just as you or I may see things the same way here on this subject, some ppl see things their way. You aren't going to change anyones mind, bud. They are as stubborn as we are. :D

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
05-12-2003, 09:50 AM
Lol...not trying to change any minds here Oliver. I was just holding out the hope that MM would be able to produce a SHRED of evidence to support anything he's said. So far, from what he's given us, he might as well have said that Santa Clause told him that Bush and Cheney were on his "naughty" list and had been getting coal in their stockings...of course, since they are in Oil's pockets I guess coal would have made a nice gift...:)

Mr.Murder
05-12-2003, 10:32 AM
Fairy tale comparison are all you have, you are a BUSH leaguer when it comes to pro chat, take your smilies and rhetoric and come back when you grow hair on your balls.

ohall
05-12-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Fairy tale comparison are all you have, you are a BUSH leaguer when it comes to pro chat, take your smilies and rhetoric and come back when you grow hair on your balls.

Yikes, that's not very nice. :(

Oliver...

PhinPhan1227
05-12-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Murder
Fairy tale comparison are all you have, you are a BUSH leaguer when it comes to pro chat, take your smilies and rhetoric and come back when you grow hair on your balls.


Lol...."blah blah blah" doesn't even begin to cover this. I would however love to know what "pro-chat" is. Are you getting sponsored for your posts? Does your computer have "Viagra" stickers on it? Or are you getting checks from NAMBLA for pushing their message? Does it come with a certification? Was there a draft? Exactly when did you give up your amateur status? Seriously, is there a governing body? The American Chat League? Inquiring minds want to know!!!!:goof:

Mr.Murder
05-12-2003, 01:57 PM
Enquirer is your level. You were one to bring Santa Clause into this not me. As stated previously, smileys are great for discussions about war. They also make terrific continuity for the joke of an economy that Bush helped to engineer with a Republican congress.

PhinPhan1227
05-12-2003, 02:58 PM
Lol...now we've devolved to "I know you are but what am I"? Tell you what MM...just give us ANY proof beyond "some guy told me Bush was a crook"...something...ANYTHING!! I'll make you a deal...produce ANY evidence of this Colonel Garner, and I'll never use another smilie in a post with you. Hows that? Heck, if the guy ever taught at Uof A there's got to be a record. And if he ever served in the military, you can pull his records from there as well...oh, and whatever company he was suppossed to have wildcatted for. Come on MM, grow some long and curlies on those tin balls of yours and cough up something more than "the voices in my head told me so"...:)

WharfRat
05-19-2003, 11:52 PM
Ok Guys... this is about it.
This forum is all about polotical debate, and while I have no problem with it getting heated, I do have a problem when it gets personal...

MrMurder and 1227 .. you're both on notice here... debate the issues .. respectfully... and keep personal insults out of it.

PhinPhan1227
05-20-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by WharfRat
Ok Guys... this is about it.
This forum is all about polotical debate, and while I have no problem with it getting heated, I do have a problem when it gets personal...

MrMurder and 1227 .. you're both on notice here... debate the issues .. respectfully... and keep personal insults out of it.


No problem oh giant wooded rodent...I was just responding in kind, but I'll leave that to you and keep it to the point at hand;)