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poornate
04-15-2003, 12:48 AM
This is long but please read on.-


I am going to be married to a great woman on June 21st of this year. I am not terribly religious and neither is she. I was raised in a protestant household that was very liberal. She was raised in an extremely intense Catholic home. Here is my dillema.

If we don't get married by a catholic priest her family will not consider us truly married and will cut her (and me) off from any contact with her family. We have been living together for three years and they have only visited our home once even though they only live fifteen minutes away. The only time they visited was the weekend after I agreed to the priest marrying us. It probably wouldn't be a big deal except she has ten brothers and sisters and the youngest is still in 2nd grade (We're twenty-five).
I don't mind the catholic wedding to go along with the plans we already have.(outdoor wedding, friends, etc.) The problem lies in the fact that I am having to pay for everything this wedding entails. Her family is not terribly well off and I'm carrying the load on this. The outdoor ceremony has around 250 people coming. To be married by the church will cost me three weekends by the church. I work at a commision job and those three weekends will cost me around $4000 dollars in salary. If I lose that much money I am concerned I will not have enough for all the other responsibilities I have. Neither of us want to be exiled from her family but we don't think we can afford it. Her parents have already let us know that if we haven't had a union preformed by a priest that they will not attend our wedding. Both of us feel very uncomfortable with what the church is telling us we must do to be married anyway. The bad part is that we only have a few days to decide what we have to do. I know it sounds dumb to post this here but I know it will be unbiased opinions.

I think it's awful that her family is putting us in this position. I really need a ton of advice because I'm not sure what to do.

poornate
04-15-2003, 12:49 AM
This is long but please read on.-


I am going to be married to a great woman on June 21st of this year. I am not terribly religious and neither is she. I was raised in a protestant household that was very liberal. She was raised in an extremely intense Catholic home. Here is my dillema.

If we don't get married by a catholic priest her family will not consider us truly married and will cut her (and me) off from any contact with her family. We have been living together for three years and they have only visited our home once even though they only live fifteen minutes away. The only time they visited was the weekend after I agreed to the priest marrying us. It probably wouldn't be a big deal except she has ten brothers and sisters and the youngest is still in 2nd grade (We're twenty-five).
I don't mind the catholic wedding to go along with the plans we already have.(outdoor wedding, friends, etc.) The problem lies in the fact that I am having to pay for everything this wedding entails. Her family is not terribly well off and I'm carrying the load on this. The outdoor ceremony has around 250 people coming. To be married by the church will cost me three weekends by the church. I work at a commision job and those three weekends will cost me around $4000 dollars in salary. If I lose that much money I am concerned I will not have enough for all the other responsibilities I have. Neither of us want to be exiled from her family but we don't think we can afford it. Her parents have already let us know that if we haven't had a union preformed by a priest that they will not attend our wedding. Both of us feel very uncomfortable with what the church is telling us we must do to be married anyway. The bad part is that we only have a few days to decide what we have to do. I know it sounds dumb to post this here but I know it will be unbiased opinions.

I think it's awful that her family is putting us in this position. I really need a ton of advice because I'm not sure what to do.

Peebs
04-15-2003, 01:06 AM
Poor Nate. Sorry couldn't resist....;)

Sounds to me since you are footing the bill for the whole wedding and it seems to be important to them-they pay for the church. YOU are not catholic so why should you pay for it? If they can't afford it well then....you go to your original idea.....
What is your fiancee saying about this? After all it is her Mom and Dad and really should be dealing with them.

My Brother had almost the same situation. When he was marrying (the first time) they were getting married in her family's Methodist church.

My parents didn't care, we're Jewish and also very liberal and reformed. My Paternal Grandfather (term I use loosely, he wasn't much of a Father and less of a Granfather...) blew a hissy fit because his first born Grandson wasn't getting married in Temple. My Mother told him to piss off. This caused a riff in the Family that lasted 15 years.
Eventually my Grandfather died (boo hiss no great loss :rolleyes: He wasn't a very nice man to begin with) and my Dad and his sister made up.

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:09 AM
I'm not talking about the bill for the church or any expenses incurred by the catholic ceremony. I'm just talking about my lost wages from the time commitment. The other will be an additional I don't know how much.

WharfRat
04-15-2003, 01:14 AM
Wow...Dude....

well... first off... if the parents aren't the ones footing the bill for the wedding, how id it that they are "insisting" that it be planned out their way? I mean, IMHO it seems kinda selfish of them to dictate how much money YOU spend on a wedding that is traditionally (they must cling to tradition, or they would not insist on a Catholic wedding) the responsibility of the Bride's parents? I understand they may not be able to afford it... but how can they "insist" that YOU have something so elaborate? I just sense an enormous double standard there.
The fact that they don't visit your home...tells me that they don't feel you as being part of that family... how does your girl react to this?
Another question ... how close is your girl toher parents? Do you visit their home often? and do you feel welcome when/if you do? Does your girl visit them often?
Is there any way to have the Catholic wedding... with less "frills" to make it more "budget friendly"?
As for the Church... well... you shouldn't get me started on the Catholic church.. I was raised Catholic, but in my ealry twenties, after much "soul serching" I joined the Methodist Church... more "user friendly" ... I won't get into the myriad of reasons...
However, I'm not sure what exaclty the Church is asking you to do? I understand that in your case... time = money.... and giving up time normally spent earning that money, is a big sacrafice... is there any way to "re-arrange" that time?
I think you and your girl should really sit down together, and discuss the priorities of this wedding... family is an important thing... and should not be discarded over something like this... Something you, your girl, and her parents ALL need to realize.
After discussingit with your girl... take it to them... tell them how you, and her, feel... whatever you come up with, you'll have to live with... and so will they....
Other than to tell you to ask these questions of yourself, your girl, and her parents... and sit and REALLY listen to each other... I don't know what else to say...

It's gotta be about you and your future wife ...FIRST... then her parents...in that order. But...don't talk your girl into a decision that she may eventually regret... make SURE she is following her heart... and you also ... don't do something you know you'll regret...

Good Luck!! :up:

You'll get through this ... keep the faith bro! :cool:

ohall
04-15-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by poornate
This is long but please read on.-


I am going to be married to a great woman on June 21st of this year. I am not terribly religious and neither is she. I was raised in a protestant household that was very liberal. She was raised in an extremely intense Catholic home. Here is my dillema.

If we don't get married by a catholic priest her family will not consider us truly married and will cut her (and me) off from any contact with her family. We have been living together for three years and they have only visited our home once even though they only live fifteen minutes away. The only time they visited was the weekend after I agreed to the priest marrying us. It probably wouldn't be a big deal except she has ten brothers and sisters and the youngest is still in 2nd grade (We're twenty-five).
I don't mind the catholic wedding to go along with the plans we already have.(outdoor wedding, friends, etc.) The problem lies in the fact that I am having to pay for everything this wedding entails. Her family is not terribly well off and I'm carrying the load on this. The outdoor ceremony has around 250 people coming. To be married by the church will cost me three weekends by the church. I work at a commision job and those three weekends will cost me around $4000 dollars in salary. If I lose that much money I am concerned I will not have enough for all the other responsibilities I have. Neither of us want to be exiled from her family but we don't think we can afford it. Her parents have already let us know that if we haven't had a union preformed by a priest that they will not attend our wedding. Both of us feel very uncomfortable with what the church is telling us we must do to be married anyway. The bad part is that we only have a few days to decide what we have to do. I know it sounds dumb to post this here but I know it will be unbiased opinions.

I think it's awful that her family is putting us in this position. I really need a ton of advice because I'm not sure what to do.

You can only do what you can do man. Your 1st responsibility is for your new family.

Have you tried being up front with her parents? See if they have any ideas.

It seems to me you have done more than most ppl would ever do for your fiancée and her family. My point here is that it’s not like you are saying no I am opposed to having a catholic wedding. You are saying, because of what it will take to get a true catholic wedding it will cost you the opportunity to give your fiancée a GREAT wedding which is every woman’s dream.

Oliver...

ohall
04-15-2003, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by poornate
This is long but please read on.-


I am going to be married to a great woman on June 21st of this year. I am not terribly religious and neither is she. I was raised in a protestant household that was very liberal. She was raised in an extremely intense Catholic home. Here is my dillema.

If we don't get married by a catholic priest her family will not consider us truly married and will cut her (and me) off from any contact with her family. We have been living together for three years and they have only visited our home once even though they only live fifteen minutes away. The only time they visited was the weekend after I agreed to the priest marrying us. It probably wouldn't be a big deal except she has ten brothers and sisters and the youngest is still in 2nd grade (We're twenty-five).
I don't mind the catholic wedding to go along with the plans we already have.(outdoor wedding, friends, etc.) The problem lies in the fact that I am having to pay for everything this wedding entails. Her family is not terribly well off and I'm carrying the load on this. The outdoor ceremony has around 250 people coming. To be married by the church will cost me three weekends by the church. I work at a commision job and those three weekends will cost me around $4000 dollars in salary. If I lose that much money I am concerned I will not have enough for all the other responsibilities I have. Neither of us want to be exiled from her family but we don't think we can afford it. Her parents have already let us know that if we haven't had a union preformed by a priest that they will not attend our wedding. Both of us feel very uncomfortable with what the church is telling us we must do to be married anyway. The bad part is that we only have a few days to decide what we have to do. I know it sounds dumb to post this here but I know it will be unbiased opinions.

I think it's awful that her family is putting us in this position. I really need a ton of advice because I'm not sure what to do.

Oh and congrats on your upcoming wedding I wish you and your future wife all the BEST!

Oliver...

Peebs
04-15-2003, 01:20 AM
Why should he have a Catholic Wedding if he isn't Catholic? IF being married in a Catholic church was important to his fiancee, then it would have been in the ORIGINAL plan. It seems only important to HER family.

And the point they have only come to visit your apt once tells me they are not happy that the two of you live together before marriage.

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:26 AM
We are pretty simple actually. A lot of people outside under some willow trees some food. We're going to stay and camp with our friends on the first night. Not even tuxes. Sandals and linen. The girls are sewing their dresses. The fact is that i will be giving up around half of my salary n the coming month and half the month after for the "real wedding". Kat and I have discussed this a lot already and don't know what to do.

To give you a point of reference to how serious they are about there religious beliefs I'll tell you some stories. Kat's grandmother got divorced and her family hasn't had contact with her in twelve years because they don't believe in divorce and she remarried. Her oldest brother had a son up in Chicago around 7 years ago. It was out of wedlock so her mother has never told some of Kat's siblings they have a nephew. etc., etc.

Her family really does like me a lot. I like them. I have no idea what to do. Even if you don't consider the money between both weddings and the other things I am required to do I will be having to ask off around 25 days. i'm not sure how that's going to fly.

WharfRat
04-15-2003, 01:29 AM
Nate ... sounds to me that her family is WAY too quick to turn their backs on FAMILY. That WILL bite them in the a$$ one day...

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:30 AM
It's alot more complicated than I can relay.

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:30 AM
They are doing what they THINK is right. Example for the little kids etc.

ohall
04-15-2003, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by Peebs
Why should he have a Catholic Wedding if he isn't Catholic? IF being married in a Catholic church was important to his fiancee, then it would have been in the ORIGINAL plan. It seems only important to HER family.

And the point they have only come to visit your apt once tells me they are not happy that the two of you live together before marriage.

Obviously I would think this woman's family is very important to her, and they are obviously important to poornate because of his fiancee.

If they were not important to her obviously poornate would not be going the extra thosand miles. I can see where poornate is coming from. And I think he's doing the right thing, going the extra thosand miles. At least he can be happy and content with his actions in this. After time passes no one can say with a straight face he did not do everything he could have done to get what his wifes family asked of him.

Oliver...

Peebs
04-15-2003, 01:32 AM
You know what, your wedding sounds beautiful. It sounds like exactly what the two of you want. It's your day not theirs.
Your fiancee needs to be upfront with her parents and say "This is what we want and I'd wish you would be happy too".

I can't believe that people would be so ridged and stubborn as to cut off their daughter. Their loss in the end.

dolfan06
04-15-2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by poornate
i'd go a head and do what you want to do! they may cut you off, but you'll be surprised what will happen when the first grandchild comes around, being a grandfather, i know! my grandaughter has me wrapped around her little finger, and even at 5, the little dickens knows it!:rolleyes:

ohall
04-15-2003, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by poornate
It's alot more complicated than I can relay.

I know of what you speak poornate. My father is like this, and he did the same thing to my sister, but for different reasons. My father did not go to my oldest sisters wedding and my brothers wedding. Odds are your future father in law is very much like my father.

Take my word for it, in time things like this will cause friction if it is not resolved. Either you want her family around, and they will hate you because of what they think you did or did not do. Or your wife will blame you for losing or causing problems with her family. Time can do that to anyone.

I still think you need to be very up front with her family and see if they have any ideas.

I wish you all the luck in this.

Oliver...

Peebs
04-15-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by poornate
They are doing what they THINK is right. Example for the little kids etc.

the example for the little kids should be-here are two people who love each other and want to grow old together. God is suposed to be everywhere, right? So he'll be there under the willow trees when you take your vows.

So the example of NOT speaking to the GRANMOTHER because she divorced is a "ok" example for the kids? Isn't there a proverb of "forgiving and forgetting"?
These people will be your inlaws but I'm sorry they need to get the huge bug out of their asses.

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:38 AM
The bad part is the younger kids have almost been turned into weapons in this. They keep trelling me how much Kat's little sister is looking forward to being the flower girl and her dad wants to let all the kids camp. away from the festivities. We are really earthy about things. Not religiously perhaps but spiritually. family has a huge place in our lives regardless of the role it has for us in our individual lives. Wether that family is blood to me or not I feel a kinship with them. i don't want to disappoint the kids. This is really hard...

WharfRat
04-15-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Oliver
Obviously I would think this woman's family is very important to her, and they are obviously important to poornate because of his fiancee.

If they were not important to her obviously poornate would not be going the extra thosand miles. I can see where poornate is coming from. And I think he's doing the right thing, going the extra thosand miles. At least he can be happy and content with his actions in this. After time passes no one can say with a straight face he did not do everything he could have done to get what his wifes family asked of him.

Oliver...

Good points Oliver... If Nate's girl is on that same page....

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by dolfan06
i'd go a head and do what you want to do! they may cut you off, but you'll be surprised what will happen when the first grandchild comes around, being a grandfather, i know! my grandaughter has me wrapped around her little finger, and even at 5, the little dickens knows it!:rolleyes:

Kat's oldest brother had a son up in Chicago around 7 years ago. It was out of wedlock so her mother has never told some of Kat's siblings they have a nephew. etc., etc.

WharfRat
04-15-2003, 01:42 AM
Nate... one unasnwered question looms...

How does Kat feel?

ohall
04-15-2003, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by WharfRat
Good points Oliver... If Nate's girl is on that same page....

Whether poornate knows this or not this will not go away even when they have a child or even children. All poornate can do is have the truth on his side, that he did everything that he could possibly do to make this wish happen.

Although these ppl may be old fashioned in today's standards, I am not going to judge them. Obviously if this woman is so special to find something in poornate, poornate has to respect these ppl at some level. After all they raised this person. I think it's poornates way of saying thank you.

These are the ppl that will always be one of his future wife 1st thoughts on anything that is family related, that will never change. I think this whole thing is a great reflection as to the type of qulaity person poornate is.

I hope it all works out for him.

Oliver...

Peebs
04-15-2003, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by poornate
Kat's oldest brother had a son up in Chicago around 7 years ago. It was out of wedlock so her mother has never told some of Kat's siblings they have a nephew. etc., etc.

Ok Nate. THAT statement right there should speak VOLUMES to you about how these people operate. Denying a GRANDCHILD? Flesh and blood because the parents weren't married? From their religious convictions they should thank god their son and this woman decided to have the child instead of the alternative. Right?

This is what my opinion is: you and Kat should SERIOUSLY consider couples therapy before the big day. You really need a impartical 3rd person to help you guys decide what is best for both of you and to feel strong in your decision. It seems it's a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" with her parents.
There will be many other decisions down the road that her parents may not like. Are you guys going to live in fear for the rest of your lives of possibly not making these people happy and that they might cut their daughter off?
YES they are to be PART of your lives....not dictate it!

Peebs
04-15-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by WharfRat
Nate... one unasnwered question looms...

How does Kat feel?

Yep, what's her feelings on this?

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:48 AM
The same way I do. We know that nothing will prevent our plans. We have lived together since the day we started dating and don't plan on ever being apart. Soul mates. I can't bear to see her cut off from her family or for them to not be there for our wedding. What a bad way to begin what's going to be such a great life together. What a sad mark on what could be such a perfect day. All we wanted was to confirm our realationship around the people we love. Play some music. Drink a little and sleep under the stars. Now it has turned into something hard and pained.

ohall
04-15-2003, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by poornate
The same way I do. We know that nothing will prevent our plans. We have lived together since the day we started dating and don't plan on ever being apart. Soul mates. I can't bear to see her cut off from her family or for them to not be there for our wedding. What a bad way to begin what's going to be such a great life together. What a sad mark on what could be such a perfect day. All we wanted was to confirm our realationship around the people we love. Play some music. Drink a little and sleep under the stars. Now it has turned into something hard and pained.

Look for a catholic church that will cater to your schedule for those meetings. There has to be a way. Have you talked to the church about how this will affect things for you and your fiancé’s family?

Oliver...

Peebs
04-15-2003, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by poornate
The same way I do. We know that nothing will prevent our plans. We have lived together since the day we started dating and don't plan on ever being apart. Soul mates. I can't bear to see her cut off from her family or for them to not be there for our wedding. What a bad way to begin what's going to be such a great life together. What a sad mark on what could be such a perfect day. All we wanted was to confirm our realationship around the people we love. Play some music. Drink a little and sleep under the stars. Now it has turned into something hard and pained.

Ok so she feels the same as you do. And she knows how her parents are.
Obvously she must be willing to take the chance of pissing them off.
Remember it's their decision if they don't speak to her again. Nothing you or Kat did or didn't do made them like that.

Do what you feel is right in your heart and what will make both of you happy. Don't let anyone dictate the way the two of you decide to live your lives.

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Peebs
Ok Nate. THAT statement right there should speak VOLUMES to you about how these people operate. Denying a GRANDCHILD? Flesh and blood because the parents weren't married? From their religious convictions they should thank god their son and this woman decided to have the child instead of the alternative. Right?

This is what my opinion is: you and Kat should SERIOUSLY consider couples therapy before the big day. You really need a impartical 3rd person to help you guys decide what is best for both of you and to feel strong in your decision. It seems it's a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" with her parents.
There will be many other decisions down the road that her parents may not like. Are you guys going to live in fear for the rest of your lives of possibly not making these people happy and that they might cut their daughter off?
YES they are to be PART of your lives....not dictate it!

It's not out of fear that i am struggling. It's because I care. i know the convictions and beliefs of these people. They are doing what they believe, regardless of how short sited and ignorant it seems to us. Her mother wouldn't eat anything sweet the whole time we lived together as a sacrafice to attone for our sins. It's not malice that motivates their actions but a standard that few people still live by.

poornate
04-15-2003, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by Oliver
Look for a catholic church that will cater to your schedule for those meetings. There has to be a way. Have you talked to the church about how this will affect things for you and your fiancé’s family?

Oliver...

The priest didn't seem to like the position we were being put in but would not alter the requirements. He is under the arch dioscese of Washington DC and abides by the same rules that all priests here have to adhere to.

Anybody know of a really liberal Catholic priest? I love to fly!

Peebs
04-15-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Oliver
Look for a catholic church that will cater to your schedule for those meetings. There has to be a way. Have you talked to the church about how this will affect things for you and your fiancé’s family?

Oliver...

Oliver-have you read what Nate's been saying? HE is not Catholic, apparently Kat is not a practicing Catholic. Why should they find a church or speak to a church or do whatever in a church??????? It's not HIS church, it's HER parents church so let THEM speak to their priest. Maybe the Priest can help them get the perverbial bug out of their butts.

Peebs
04-15-2003, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by poornate
Her mother wouldn't eat anything sweet the whole time we lived together as a sacrafice to attone for our sins. It's not malice that motivates their actions but a standard that few people still live by.

Wo.
Ok they might be really nice people but they sound like one of those scary movie of the week shows on Lifetime :tongue: You know the ones that always star Patty Duke.

When i said "fear" I didn't mean afraid. Look these people are never going to change, loosen up...whatever. You and Kat need to follow your hearts. Do what makes the both of you happy, not what makes other people happy.

ohall
04-15-2003, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Peebs
Oliver-have you read what Nate's been saying? HE is not Catholic, apparently Kat is not a practicing Catholic. Why should they find a church or speak to a church or do whatever in a church??????? It's not HIS church, it's HER parents church so let THEM speak to their priest. Maybe the Priest can help them get the perverbial bug out of their butts.

LOL yes Peebs I have, I understand it's his fiancée’s family that is asking this of them. Again I think we need to understand here this is important to poornate as well, because it's important to his fiancés family. Right or wrong, that seems to be the reality of the situation here.

I don't think any of us can say blow them off with any certainty here, because we don't know these ppl and we are only getting one side of the story here.

I think we need to try and help poornate get this whole catholic wedding thing to happen for poornate sakes.

I can see their side of the situation here, because I was raised in a similar family as this girl, not catholic, but religious. Not to the point where my mother would not eat sweets when my sister was living with different guys, but basically my family is very old fashioned.

As long as poornate is going to allow these ppl to be apart of his family then this will not go away, odds are they won't let it. It seems to me they are very serious and they feel 100% correct in their actions and future actions. Are they wrong? I have no idea, I'm not God.

So again I think we need to accept that and try and help poornate to get this catholic wedding to happen for poornate and his fiancée future happiness.

Oliver...

Muck
04-15-2003, 02:10 AM
Seems like her parents take things to the extreme. And they don't seem like the forgiving type. And it's unfortunate that they are they way they are. It's not you, it's them. Honestly, I don't think things will ever be 100% hunky dorey with them.

poornate
04-15-2003, 02:11 AM
This churches requirements for an outsider marriage include a 3 day seperate stay with a priest and a married catholic couple where we stay in a hotel to discuss our relationship and decide if we arte making the right decision. Meetings to discuss our personal relationship up to this point at different parrishoners homes. A invasive 200 question test that I took tonight. A written statement saying that i would not oppose any children we have being raised and baptised in the Catholic faith which I am not certyain how I feel about. Aranging a completely seperate marriage in a church among other things. Kat's a teacher and I work 6 days a week. We're supposed to have all this done by June 14. This is excluding the other weddings plans and expense.

It's basically putting us in a serious financial bind or Kat being forced to choose me over her relationship with her very large, very close family. There is no question what she will choose if it comes down to that but it is something we really need to find a solution for.

Like I said are there any really liberal Catholic priests that anyone knows? Anywhere in the country?

Dajesus
04-15-2003, 02:12 AM
My 2 cents. Her parents resistince on the wedding is going to be a metaphor for your enitire relationship with them as long as you and your future wife are to be together. Be honest with your fiance, with her family, and your self and this will work it self out. She will come to terms with it, but her parents will have sleep at night when they realize they have alienated a loved one over something, so trivial. Do what is going to be the best for you and your wife and future life together. If her parents don't see you only had her best interests in mind that is their loss, but if your girl doesn't doesn't see what is best for your life together your relationship will be doomed from the start.

Muck
04-15-2003, 02:13 AM
Dang man. That's extreme. I'm Catholic, and I don't know anyone who had to go thru anything like that. If they (her parents) can't see that you're bending over backwards for them now.....will they ever??

poornate
04-15-2003, 02:14 AM
Muck...

I respect everyones beliefs. I do think this is unreasonable though. If you are Catholic I really would love your input.

Muck
04-15-2003, 02:15 AM
Good post, D.

ohall
04-15-2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by poornate
This churches requirements for an outsider marriage include a 3 day seperate stay with a priest and a married catholic couple where we stay in a hotel to discuss our relationship and decide if we arte making the right decision. Meetings to discuss our personal relationship up to this point at different parrishoners homes. A invasive 200 question test that I took tonight. A written statement saying that i would not oppose any children we have being raised and baptised in the Catholic faith which I am not certyain how I feel about. Aranging a completely seperate marriage in a church among other things. Kat's a teacher and I work 6 days a week. We're supposed to have all this done by June 14. This is excluding the other weddings plans and expense.

It's basically putting us in a serious financial bind or Kat being forced to choose me over her relationship with her very large, very close family. There is no question what she will choose if it comes down to that but it is something we really need to find a solution for.

Like I said are there any really liberal Catholic priests that anyone knows? Anywhere in the country?

Can I ask a personal question? What's the rush here, and if you don't want to answer I understand.

Oliver...

poornate
04-15-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Dajesus
My 2 cents. Her parents resistince on the wedding is going to be a metaphor for your enitire relationship with them as long as you and your future wife are to be together. Be honest with your fiance, with her family, and your self and this will work it self out. She will come to terms with it, but her parents will have sleep at night when they realize they have alienated a loved one over something, so trivial. Do what is going to be the best for you and your wife and future life together. If her parents don't see you only had her best interests in mind that is their loss, but if your girl doesn't doesn't see what is best for your life together your relationship will be doomed from the start.


Kateri has no doubts about our relationship and neither do I. I was raised to believe marriage an afterthought. Not the center of a relationship. The fact is that her parents will not allow close contact with there family. That's a fact. And it's also unacceptable.

ohall
04-15-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by poornate
This churches requirements for an outsider marriage include a 3 day seperate stay with a priest and a married catholic couple where we stay in a hotel to discuss our relationship and decide if we arte making the right decision. Meetings to discuss our personal relationship up to this point at different parrishoners homes. A invasive 200 question test that I took tonight. A written statement saying that i would not oppose any children we have being raised and baptised in the Catholic faith which I am not certyain how I feel about. Aranging a completely seperate marriage in a church among other things. Kat's a teacher and I work 6 days a week. We're supposed to have all this done by June 14. This is excluding the other weddings plans and expense.

It's basically putting us in a serious financial bind or Kat being forced to choose me over her relationship with her very large, very close family. There is no question what she will choose if it comes down to that but it is something we really need to find a solution for.

Like I said are there any really liberal Catholic priests that anyone knows? Anywhere in the country?

I'll ask my brother about the liberal Catholic priests tomorrow. He signed that paper years ago that you signed tonight, and he won't allow his daughters to be baptised in a catholic church now. Even though you feel a certain way now, things can change. Take those papers seriously, my brother is finding out just how serious my sister in law feels they are. And this was a woman that told everyone she had no such plans. I believe her, but her family had totally different plans.

I'm sorry to say this, but this reminds me a lot of my brothers wedding situation. Get this in check now my friend these things will not go away, unless you are a cold person and you do not strike me as that type of person.

Oliver...

poornate
04-15-2003, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by Dajesus
My 2 cents. Her parents resistince on the wedding is going to be a metaphor for your enitire relationship with them as long as you and your future wife are to be together. Be honest with your fiance, with her family, and your self and this will work it self out. She will come to terms with it, but her parents will have sleep at night when they realize they have alienated a loved one over something, so trivial. Do what is going to be the best for you and your wife and future life together. If her parents don't see you only had her best interests in mind that is their loss, but if your girl doesn't doesn't see what is best for your life together your relationship will be doomed from the start.


It really won't symbolize our relationship in the future. This is the last requirement. Her parents really do care for me. Her Dad already calls me son. They just will not participate in what goes against their beliefs. it's not just her immediate family either. She has 125+ first cousins, grandparents, 12+ pairs of Aunts and Uncles etc. etc.. None will be present if I can't solve this.

poornate
04-15-2003, 02:33 AM
This is all in the lounge now. Please come share some thoughts.

Muck
04-15-2003, 02:33 AM
I think it's unreasonable too, nate. Like I said, I've never heard of anyone having to go thru all that before marraige.

Like it has been mentioned above, her parents believe what they are doing is right. They believe it so strongly that they're willing to alienate anyone who doesn't follow them. That's not reasonable. It's going overboard. At what point will they compromise?? It doesn't appear that they ever will.

It's a real Catch-22. You can't win. On one hand, you can sacrifice all that pay and go thru all that stress for them.....and it still might not be enough. You guys are 25 for heaven's sake. And they're treating you like children. What happens when you have kids and you don't automatically decide to have them baptized?? When you don't take them to Church every week?? When you decide to parent them in certain ways that they don't agree with??

On the other hand, you can do what you both want to do...not get married at the Church.....what you feel.....and are guarenteed to be alienated from the get-go.

You're already bending over backwards. You're going to get off to a rough start financially because of all this. And they are completely unsympathetic. They feel you are obligated. It's their way or no way. What really gets me is that they aren't even offering to help out. They're really being selfish about this. You're bending, changing, doing everything you can to gain their approval. The least they could do is help out in any way they can. Instead, they're using their young children as leverage to make you feel even more guilty.

I'm sorry man. I really wish I had an absolute answer for you. But it's going to come down to honesty. I think you're just going to have to be upfront with them. Let them know (in a nice way) that you're doing this for them and how much you're sacrificing for them. Make sure that they understand the effort you're putting in. The goal is for them to acknowledge it and appreciate it. That's the first step in the grand scheme of things.

Muck
04-15-2003, 02:39 AM
Wow. That's a big family. You're up against an army. :)

poornate
04-15-2003, 02:41 AM
They are in no position to help financially. Her Dad works and supports her Mom and the 7 kids who still live at home. They are not well off to say the least. That's part of what draws their family so close together. It's not that it's a strain on me financially. I think it's impossible. I have spent around $6-7000 dollars already. I went all out before I knew about any of this. I mean I know some people have $20000 weddings and all but how many people our age, only 2 years removed from college, living in the most expensive place in the entire country, and so time restrained, supposed to manage this?

It is really killing me.

poornate
04-15-2003, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Muck
Wow. That's a big family. You're up against an army. :)

They have post mass Sunday breakfast every week and around 100 people come to her Grandmothers. For the most part they are all Irish. You think it's hard to remember John, Ricky, and Sara after you meet them? Try Lorkin, Fenbar, Dekklin, Roshin, Kyrron, Roch etc, etc,:)

Muck
04-15-2003, 02:51 AM
Doh!!

My cousin had an $40,000+ wedding. She was 22. She was living with someone else 5 months later. It was lust at first sight. :rolleyes:

Man, you're in a jam. But it just seems like you're "one of them" or you're not. I think you're pretty much screwed. Just bite the bullet and make them happy. With 125+ cousins, etc....you're bound to get some money (gifts) back.

Muck
04-15-2003, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by poornate
They have post mass Sunday breakfast every week and around 100 people come to her Grandmothers. For the most part they are all Irish. You think it's hard to remember John, Ricky, and Sara after you meet them? Try Lorkin, Fenbar, Dekklin, Roshin, Kyrron, Roch etc, etc,:)

Those sound like Simpson's characters. :)

poornate
04-15-2003, 02:55 AM
Only around 30 were coming to the wedding anyway. Half of them are little kids. It's really her little brothers and sister that is making this hard. I am saying that I don't have a bullet to bite. I blew my load. Tapped right now with more expenses coming soon excluding this extra stuff.

Muck
04-15-2003, 03:05 AM
You gotta tell them then. They have to know.

poornate
04-15-2003, 03:13 AM
The reasons don't matter. Just the resolution.

inFINSible
04-15-2003, 07:43 AM
This reminds me of people who wait too long to ask the audience on "Who Wants to be a Millionare".......You're supposed to ask the audience while the questions are still easy enough for them to get right.:infins:

poornate
04-15-2003, 08:24 AM
It all got sprung on me yesterday.

inFINSible
04-15-2003, 08:33 AM
I was just trying to lighten things up poornate.....It sounds like a tough place to be.....I wish I could tell you something that would make everything better but, I'm afraid i can't add anything that you haven't heard already.........

One question though.....it's probably already been thought of or I misunderstood something but, when you mentioned lost wages, you specifically said weekend wages......is it posssible that changing the day could help alleviate some of your losses? I know that the expenses will be there no matter what but, is it possible to cut YOUR lost income somehow?

Peebs
04-15-2003, 09:47 AM
Nate, the fact that they will not participate other rituals that aren't in THEIR religion strikes me as odd. Unless they aren't really Catholic and secretly Jehovah Witness ;)

Lemme ask you this, why are you going through the tortures of the damned JUST to have a wedding in a Catholic Church (just to appease her Parents) when in reality it is not what's in your heart?
Look I know plenty of Irish Catholics and none of them are as strict as these people. I know they are your beloveds Parents and your future in-laws but they are VERY odd.

What about your parents? What do they think of this?


OH and btw....Liberal + Priest don;t really go together ;)
You really need a Unitarian Minister! :D :tongue:

Justasportsfan
04-15-2003, 10:11 AM
Poornate, here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

The wedding is the most important day in a woman's life. It's important that everything goes perfect. Ask her what she thinks should happen and what you guys decide should be done as long as she is happy with the decisions made. I know it's the most important day in both your lives but the women are the one's that dream of the perfect wedding. We men are too worried about the committment itself that we can't think properly which is why the women do all the planning in most cases.

It's a big day for her, make sure she's happy.

As for the family, I can see where they are coming from being Catholic myself. You both live together, In the Catholic Church's eyes, when two people get together outside marriage, it is considered sin or living in sin in your case. If being married by a Catholic priest does not bother you and yet her family means alot to her, give in.

If money is a problem then I suggest you postpone the wedding til' you can afford it. If the family can't understand this then ask them to pay for half of it and that should make them understand. Your marriage does not end after the wedding day. You will still have to take care of their daughter and their future grandchildren as well after the wedding . Blowing everything you have may not be the wisest thing but then again, you can always make that money back if you have that guarantee.

I'm glad you're getting married. Not a lot of people believe in the sanctity of marriage anymore. More power to you and your wife. I pray that everything goes well.

My advice is, make sure you make this day the best day of her life. If it means sacrificing a bit of yourself, then so be it. You are willing to marry her means you are willing to give her everything. God Bless you both.

A married man is only as happy as his wife.

WharfRat
04-15-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by justafan

If money is a problem then I suggest you postpone the wedding til' you can afford it. If the family can't understand this then ask them to pay for half of it and that should make them understand. Your marriage does not end after the wedding day. You will still have to take care of their daughter and their future grandchildren as well after the wedding . Blowing everything you have may not be the wisest thing but then again, you can always make that money back if you have that guarantee.


Dang justafan!!

That's pretty damn profound!! :up:

I'm impressed!

Justasportsfan
04-15-2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by WharfRat
Dang justafan!!

That's pretty damn profound!! :up:

I'm impressed!

Shut Up! This is not about me. This is about poornate. Besides, tell me something I don't already know . :D

WharfRat
04-15-2003, 11:02 AM
:huh:

Just a side note....
My first marriage was in a Catholic church... I was not a member of any Catholic church at the time (I was raised Catholic, and baptized,etc as Catholic) but by that time I had already converted to Methodist... I was a member of the Methodist church, but not really devoted... her parents were Catholic, but for them to make it to church on Sunday, was enough....
This was back in the 80's, and in the Poconos (N.E. Pa), but we didn't have to go through anything like what you described... If I remember correctly the only thing we had to do, was meet with the priest 3-4 times prior to the wedding.... perhaps I was "let off easy" because of my Catholic upbringing...but I was a member of a different church at the time...
Perhaps it would be worth your time investigating how the Arch-diocese of Phila. would handle it... The Poconos is a beautiful area to have an outdoor wedding ;)

WharfRat
04-15-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by justafan
Shut Up! This is not about me. This is about poornate. Besides, tell me something I don't already know . :D

OK... you just blew it... now I'm not impressed anymore :nana:

Justasportsfan
04-15-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Peebs
Lemme ask you this, why are you going through the tortures of the damned JUST to have a wedding in a Catholic Church (just to appease her Parents) when in reality it is not what's in your heart?
:

Because her family means a lot to her. Poornate's sacrificing a bit of himself to make his future wife haqppy is not much of a sacrifice if you think of it. What price do you put on the happiness of the one you love?

Money is something you can always earn back. Poornate's wedding may very well be the only wedding he'll ever have in his life (I hope) and if so he may never get back that experience.

WeVie
04-15-2003, 01:16 PM
This is what bothers my about the whole thing so much. In a traditional wedding the brides parents are supposed to pay for it anyway. I think one of the reasons for that is so they can have more of a say in what kind of wedding takes place. Well the parents-in-laws to be can not afford to help you in any way you say right? So why should they ask something like that of you. Sounds to me that her father is a working man just like you and he is asking you to take all this time off of work to spend with this couples and the preist.

I say if they expect you to do all of this then they come up with the money to make it happen. A wedding is supposed to be for the man and woman being married. It's supposed to be what they want not for one or the others parents.

I hate to say it but I don't think that there is a solution to your problem. They don't have the cash to make it happen nor do you so what else can you do. Nothing unless you want to move the wedding date back. That still would'nt replace the lost wages but at least would give you more time to save and prepare.

While we are on the subject here is one for you. One of me wifes friends are getting married soon. Her and her family are hardcore Catholic and her soon to be husband and his family are hardcore Baptist. The both of them follow their religions but are not hardcore as their families. Most of us know that Baptist and Pentecostal think that the anti-christ will come from the Catholic church anyway so just think what they are going through. I would elope!

bigbry
04-15-2003, 03:07 PM
I hav'nt read thru all the posts here so if I repeat someones elses' sentiments its by coincidence.
But here goes.

First and formost this marriage will be the two of you, NO ONE ELSE!!! You two will wake up every morning looking at eachother. Do your own thing NO MATTER what anyone says, and live proudly with your decision. In fact, the bible says a women will leave her parents and cleave to her husband---NUFF SAID!
Now, the fact that you two have already been living together speaks volumes about your commitment to eachother AND the fact her parents/catholic church are really not part of the equation.
Get married wherever you like, keep it small. If her parents complain, too bad.
Time is the great band-ade.....At some point in time her parents will accept the marriage. BTW, I've been to MANY very small Catholic weddings. (I mean really very small)

Hope this helps.


BB

MIADolFan
04-15-2003, 03:20 PM
Give in to what her and her family want... and put if off a little to soften the blow of the lost cash flow... ... but one thing is for sure...make her happy

poornate
04-15-2003, 03:55 PM
It can be a small wedding. It's the ammount of salary i will lose to make the commitment that makes it hard/impossible.

MarinoFan
04-15-2003, 04:15 PM
yeah man, postpone this thing, you need to make her happy. If making her family happy, makes her happy, do it. Let her parents know where you stand right now, talk about it. NOW I really don't understand how her parents can be SO pissy about the wedding. What if you were jewish? They need to relax a bit, but I guess there is not much you can do about it. Just talk to your woman, and try to come to an agreement, maybe you guys can have a November wedding. Talk about it.

bigbry
04-15-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by poornate
It can be a small wedding. It's the ammount of salary i will lose to make the commitment that makes it hard/impossible.

Okay then sit down with the Priest and work out a schedule you both can live with. Sorta kinda went thru something similiar...most Priests will accomadate your wishes. Be honest and to the point. Now you've heard enough from me.

Best Wishes!


BB

iceblizzard69
04-15-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by poornate
Kat's oldest brother had a son up in Chicago around 7 years ago. It was out of wedlock so her mother has never told some of Kat's siblings they have a nephew. etc., etc.

They seem to not care about family at all, and if they make mistakes they just ditch them, and that is not right. They should be happy that they gave birth, I wonder what those religious Catholics would have done if the mother in the situation had an abortion!!

poornate
04-17-2003, 09:02 AM
Actually, when taxes started to be used for abortions in the 70's her whole family moved to Ireland. They came back after about ten years.

Barkman
04-17-2003, 12:44 PM
If it were me, I'd postpone it. I'm not the type of person to ask them to pay for half of it, just not in me. Plus you said they aren't that well off anyways. If they want it under there conditions (in the church), and you want a nice reception and whatnot, then you really have no other option than to postpone it a few months or something. If they want it their way, they've at least gotta give you a little breathing room. Man, good luck with in-laws like that!

Scrap
04-17-2003, 03:49 PM
Keep the peace and make the future wife happy.If that doesn't work, tell her parents that you are a Dolphin fan and then you'll have them in the palm of your hand.They'll hurry up the marriage, just to make you part of their family.

dolfan25
04-17-2003, 04:42 PM
You really want to mess her parents up? Tell them they can either have the marriage in a Catholic church, or the kids can be raised Catholic. Not both. One or the other. They'll really love you then. Based on their religion either their daughter or their grandchildren will go to hell. Just kidding.

Just give in to their demands for the wedding. It's 1 day out of your life. I sure hope your future in-laws know that you won't be attending the Sunday services. If you really want to piss them off tell them you refuse to raise the children Catholic because you can't trust the priests to keep their hands off your kids. They'll really be pissed then. I have 2 close friends who married Italian girls. Their inlaws are nightmares.

dolfan06
04-17-2003, 11:25 PM
in a pinch, you can always drop back five and kick!