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TooDrkPark
08-18-2006, 01:53 PM
Chargers | Whitehurst to be No. 2 QB Friday
Fri, 18 Aug 2006 05:45:03 -0700
<A href="http://www.kffl.com/link/179">Jay Paris, of the North County Times (http://www.kffl.com/link/180), reports San Diego Chargers (http://www.kffl.com/team/31/nfl) rookie QB Charlie Whitehurst (http://www.kffl.com/player/13491/nfl) is pushing veteran QB A.J. Feeley (http://www.kffl.com/player/1477/nfl) for the role of backing up starting QB Philip Rivers (http://www.kffl.com/player/9411/nfl). It'll be Whitehurst, and not Feeley, relieving Rivers and running the second-string Friday, Aug. 18, in the team's preseason game. "With me being a rookie quarterback, it is definitely a slow process and it is a little bit frustrating," Whitehurst said. "You want to be ready to play right now, and realistically that is not going to happen. You take those baby steps and learn from your mistakes.'' Rivers said he likes working with Whitehurst. The pair competed against each other twice, with Rivers' North Carolina State team beating Whitehurst's Tigers both times.

GCD960
08-18-2006, 01:54 PM
Who cares.

SCall13
08-18-2006, 01:54 PM
:rolleyes: Wow. What a huge surprise!

PhinsRock
08-18-2006, 01:56 PM
And is anybody supposed to be surprised by this? Feeley has no business even playing in the NFL IMHO, he ought to go to the Jets because he sucks, sucks, sucks.

Andyman
08-18-2006, 02:00 PM
Isn't there a rule on this board about not using the "F" word. Some are trying to forget as best we can...

Canadianfishfan
08-18-2006, 02:01 PM
Ha ha!

Noodle Arm
08-18-2006, 02:05 PM
*huddles in corner* 2nd round pick....2nd round pick.....

dolphin23
08-18-2006, 02:07 PM
I still cant believe we gave up a second for this guy, damn we got screwed by philly big time.

Aqua4Ever04
08-18-2006, 02:10 PM
Lets do a little contrasting shall we.

Saban and Mueller's credit for a 2nd round pick= Daunte Culpepper

Wannsted and Speilman's credit for a 2nd round pick= A.J Feely

In_Flames
08-18-2006, 02:11 PM
ohhh the memories.....:rolleyes:

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/08/clip_image001_0004-1.jpg
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/08/20041110insidereax-1.jpg
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/08/SFMIAafe002a-1.gif



Just makes you that much more grateful for now having Saban and Culpepper....

PhinFan0202
08-18-2006, 02:11 PM
Yeah blame that on Speilman. I don't know how that guy gets a job when everyone knows he is the worst evaluator of talent ever. 3rd round pick for Lamar Gordon and a 2nd for A.J. Feely. What a putz!

Aqua4Ever04
08-18-2006, 02:19 PM
HAHA! Nice In Flames.

I remember going to the game in Seattle in 2004. All we needed was a field goal to break the tie and give us the win late in the 4th. We were at the Seattle 40 yard line when Feely went for his hot read. He took a two step drop and fired to the slot. Of course he didn't bother to check down and the pass was picked off and returned 60 yards for the winning score. I was riding high that day until that happend. Man did I hear it. Wasn't Feely picked for 6 like 5 times that year?

cnc66
08-18-2006, 02:22 PM
somewhere, inFins is crying softly....

FinsFanForever
08-18-2006, 02:27 PM
This really shows the genius gen. managing skills of wanny. Didnt he give up a second-rounder for him and gave him a huge contract? What a complete idiot

tcdrover
08-18-2006, 02:27 PM
Yeah, there were plenty of people around here that were very vocal about backing him over Gus at the time. :rolleyes:

I think Lemon is dramatically better than AJ...

tenndolfan
08-18-2006, 02:33 PM
I still cant believe we gave up a second for this guy, damn we got screwed by philly big time.
no we got screwed by rick speilman, i cant blame the eagles for that one. that was all speilmans fault for even considering that deal if anything we should have gave them a late 6th round choice with options to elavate to maybe a 4 if he played well. instead the idiot pulld the trigger for a second rounder for a guy that has done absolutley nothing to warrant a pick that high. i cant tell you guys how glad i am to see those clowns out of the orginazation.

CalFishman
08-18-2006, 02:41 PM
It's even worse than that. The feeley pick was almost a Ist rounder-#34. Saban only gave up a mid to late 2nd rounder for Daunte.

CrunchTime
08-18-2006, 02:43 PM
somewhere, inFins is crying softly....

As Elvis would say.........Dont be cruel.:wink:

I still think Infins has hope.:D

Aqua4Ever04
08-18-2006, 02:43 PM
It's even worse than that. The feeley pick was almost a Ist rounder-#34. Saban only gave up a mid to late 2nd rounder for Daunte.

Good point, I never thought of it that way. So technically, A.J had more value than Daunte according to Speilman. :lol:

Vertical Limit
08-18-2006, 02:46 PM
:rolleyes: Wow. What a huge surprise!
:sidelol:
It kind of surprises me. I mean, AJ Feeley = our 2nd round pick; Whitehurst = 3rd round, 81st pick overall.

Then we waste another pick to get rid of AJ. I mean, you think AJ would live up to his expectations. :lol:

BadBrad1703
08-18-2006, 02:47 PM
ohhh the memories.....:rolleyes:

http://www.femmefan.com/site/images/clip_image001_0004.jpg
http://www.nfl.com/u/nfl/photos/nfl1ae6_lower.jpg
http://www.fanmonster.com/browns/season/2004/2004_12_26_Dolphins/res_7594287.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/_photos/2004-11-10-inside-reax.jpg
http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2004/11/29/sp_niners6_lm.jpg
http://www.staugustine.com/images/092104/sports00.jpg
http://www.pro-files.com/images/photos/SFMIAafe002a.gif



Just makes you that much more grateful for now having Saban and Culpepper....
:rolleyes: man watching AJ play killed me. It was like watching Rob Johnson play for the bills

FinsFan71
08-18-2006, 02:47 PM
Chargers | Whitehurst to be No. 2 QB Friday
Fri, 18 Aug 2006 05:45:03 -0700
<A href="http://www.kffl.com/link/179">Jay Paris, of the North County Times (http://www.kffl.com/link/180), reports San Diego Chargers (http://www.kffl.com/team/31/nfl) rookie QB Charlie Whitehurst (http://www.kffl.com/player/13491/nfl) is pushing veteran QB A.J. Feeley (http://www.kffl.com/player/1477/nfl) for the role of backing up starting QB Philip Rivers (http://www.kffl.com/player/9411/nfl). It'll be Whitehurst, and not Feeley, relieving Rivers and running the second-string Friday, Aug. 18, in the team's preseason game. "With me being a rookie quarterback, it is definitely a slow process and it is a little bit frustrating," Whitehurst said. "You want to be ready to play right now, and realistically that is not going to happen. You take those baby steps and learn from your mistakes.'' Rivers said he likes working with Whitehurst. The pair competed against each other twice, with Rivers' North Carolina State team beating Whitehurst's Tigers both times.

:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol: Maybe they should also call up Ray Lucas....I hear he's looking for a backup QB job.

Orlando-FinsFan
08-18-2006, 02:49 PM
I really liked AJ Feeley !!

...oh wait nevermind, now I remember.....it was his girlfriend that I liked.

The only good thing about Feeley is his trophy girlfriend.

:dolphins:

In_Flames
08-18-2006, 02:56 PM
I really liked AJ Feeley !!

...oh wait nevermind, now I remember.....it was his girlfriend that I liked.

The only good thing about Feeley is his trophy girlfriend.

:dolphins:
:yes:
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/08/mitts_heather3-1.jpg

DolfanDaveInATX
08-18-2006, 03:12 PM
Then we waste another pick to get rid of AJ. I mean, you think AJ would live up to his expectations. :lol:

We didn't waste the pick to get rid of A.J. We gave it to the Chargers so that we could dump his ridiculous contract onto them.

Vertical Limit
08-18-2006, 03:17 PM
We didn't waste the pick to get rid of A.J. We gave it to the Chargers so that we could dump his ridiculous contract onto them.
All of this was a waste, We should have never picked him up in the first place.

jdang307
08-18-2006, 03:18 PM
And get Lemon. He didn't look too bad last week.

FinsFan71
08-18-2006, 03:19 PM
I really liked AJ Feeley !!

...oh wait nevermind, now I remember.....it was his girlfriend that I liked.

The only good thing about Feeley is his trophy girlfriend.

:dolphins:

:sidelol: hahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Andyman
08-18-2006, 03:21 PM
:rolleyes: man watching AJ play killed me. It was like watching Rob Johnson play for the bills

A pretty good comparison. Complete lack of pocket pressence for Johnson, complete lack of vision for Feeley. The difference is I REALLY liked Johnson because I always felt him over Flutie gave the Fins a much better chance of winning. :lol:

painnotpleasure
08-18-2006, 03:23 PM
Well, he was and still is a THIRD STRING Quarterback.

fish fan 4 life
08-18-2006, 03:24 PM
Feeley?No way.

rafael
08-18-2006, 03:41 PM
Yeah, there were plenty of people around here that were very vocal about backing him over Gus at the time. :rolleyes:

I think Lemon is dramatically better than AJ...

Last preseason I got so much grief for saying that AJ just didn't have the feel to be an NFL QB. I was called a hater. I was told to give him time. People tried to use his preseason stats as arguments for why he was better than Gus. It was about 50/50 between the people who wanted Gus to start and those who wanted AJ to start. The Gus supporters were even given a derogatory nickname, the Guskateers. I wonder where all those AJ backers are now?

And yes, Lemon is dramatically better than AJ. IMO Lemon is also better than Harrington. The difference isn't as dramatic b/c unlik AJ Harrington actually knows how to put touch on a pass, but Lemon just has more pocket awareness, goes through his progressions and shows more poise.

fish fan 4 life
08-18-2006, 03:52 PM
Isn't there a rule on this board about not using the "F" word. Some are trying to forget as best we can...:lol:

OneHondo
08-18-2006, 04:01 PM
Come on guys, you don't have to bash Feeley like that,...he wasn't that bad. Er,...ah...on second thought yes he was! Go ahead bash all you want.
By the way did Spielman ever reveal his secret formula for determining Feeley was the best QB available or did he just crumple it up and throw it in the trash can?

TarHeelFinFan
08-18-2006, 04:09 PM
To be fair to Feeley, Whitehurst will be a very good QB for someone if given the chance. I wanted us to draft him initially, but between trading for Culpepper and Harrington that obviously just wouldn't have worked. All that said, Feeley sucked.

TotoreMexico
08-18-2006, 04:11 PM
OMG I can't believe it!:rolleyes:

Timmy54
08-18-2006, 04:11 PM
and to think I have a signed football and a signed helmet by #7! UGGGG

abNORMal
08-18-2006, 04:22 PM
:sidelol:
somewhere, inFins is crying softly....

Alex44
08-18-2006, 04:24 PM
Yeah, there were plenty of people around here that were very vocal about backing him over Gus at the time. :rolleyes:

I think Lemon is dramatically better than AJ...

I think Im dramatically better than AJ

DaFish
08-18-2006, 04:25 PM
Who cares.
I do. Sorry but I am a huge Clemson fan and I had been wondering how Whitehurst was doing in SD.

fins5423
08-18-2006, 04:25 PM
to think we wasted a 2ND ROUND PICK ON HIM!!!!!

islandah
08-18-2006, 04:46 PM
somewhere, inFins is crying softly....

Actually, inFins was last sighted on the San Diego boards, arguing vehemently that AJ would be a great starter if only he was given a fair opportunity to compete. I mean, what has Philip Rivers ever done, really?! It's so unfair.

cnc66
08-18-2006, 04:52 PM
Actually, inFins was last sighted on the San Diego boards, arguing vehemently that AJ would be a great starter if only he was given a fair opportunity to compete. I mean, what has Philip Rivers ever done, really?! It's so unfair.

cold ...sooo cold in here :goof:

lazareth
08-18-2006, 05:10 PM
:yes:
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/08/mitts_heather3-1.jpg (http://www.desipio.com/images/mitts_heather3.jpg):hump:

taldolfin
08-18-2006, 05:12 PM
Whitehurst is going to be a good arm out there.....Not good enough to beat out Rivers....but I'm sure good enough to beat out FEELEY....

larfo2224
08-18-2006, 05:16 PM
Wow, what an absolutely awesome us of a 2nd round draft pick. Actually we had to give up a 6th round pick just for San Diego to take him off our roster if I am right. I wish he would just go away.

jlfin
08-18-2006, 05:32 PM
no we got screwed by rick speilman, i cant blame the eagles for that one. that was all speilmans fault for even considering that deal if anything we should have gave them a late 6th round choice with options to elavate to maybe a 4 if he played well. instead the idiot pulld the trigger for a second rounder for a guy that has done absolutley nothing to warrant a pick that high. i cant tell you guys how glad i am to see those clowns out of the orginazation.

Lack of experience.
Unfortunately, after Spielman hesitated and let the deal for Hasselbeck fall apart I think he went the other way and overcompensated by reaching for Feeley.
I never had a problem with acquiring Feely if they thought he had talent and could flourish here. However, giving up a 2nd rd pick for such an unproven commodity was just poor personnel management.

djphinfan
08-18-2006, 05:33 PM
I still cant believe we gave up a second for this guy, damn we got screwed by philly big time. Man i don't usually like those orange jersey's but J.T sure looks bad azz in that picture

Canadianfishfan
08-18-2006, 05:33 PM
Im glad he's someone else's problem now.

djphinfan
08-18-2006, 05:34 PM
no we got screwed by rick speilman, i cant blame the eagles for that one. that was all speilmans fault for even considering that deal if anything we should have gave them a late 6th round choice with options to elavate to maybe a 4 if he played well. instead the idiot pulld the trigger for a second rounder for a guy that has done absolutley nothing to warrant a pick that high. i cant tell you guys how glad i am to see those clowns out of the orginazation. Amen brother,amen

djphinfan
08-18-2006, 05:43 PM
cold ...sooo cold in here :goof: thats pretty funny,:D
Infis your still well respected on this board.

PhinBeck
08-18-2006, 07:27 PM
Last preseason I got so much grief for saying that AJ just didn't have the feel to be an NFL QB. I was called a hater. I was told to give him time. People tried to use his preseason stats as arguments for why he was better than Gus. It was about 50/50 between the people who wanted Gus to start and those who wanted AJ to start. The Gus supporters were even given a derogatory nickname, the Guskateers. I wonder where all those AJ backers are now?

And yes, Lemon is dramatically better than AJ. IMO Lemon is also better than Harrington. The difference isn't as dramatic b/c unlik AJ Harrington actually knows how to put touch on a pass, but Lemon just has more pocket awareness, goes through his progressions and shows more poise.


I was one, wow you guys are so much smarter than we were. I bow down to you.

Of course all you guys patting yourselfs on the back fail to tell the whole story.

So I will refresh the argument for you. Yeap I said I liked AJs physical skills, still like his arm strength. What I hadnt seen and didnt believe that you could judge based on 2004 season where we had 1 rec 1 TE no rbs and no o-line was his mental abilities. Everbody who hated him didnt want to even give him a chance. I as well as most supporters agreed at that end he didnt have it mentally. But to sit there at the beginning of 2005 camp and say Gus was the better choice after how many years he sucked is laughable. He played on how many teams? 6 and started for 2 and was replaced by both. All we said was at least AJ had had only one year that sucked, Gus had several. You guys act like we all said AJ was the second coming, all we said that AJ may have potential, 1 season as a starter wasnt the greatest judge when compared to a career journeyman. I knew Gus wasnt a l/t starting qb and at what 34 wasnt a young future solution. So yeah I was rooting for a guy with limited experience who was younger with some physical skills to show potential mentally so at least we had a younger guy starting, not 6 other teams reject.

The biggest fight was that most who hated on AJ were so consumed with being right, rather than with the Phins. It was almost as if you guys would have sulked in a corner and hoped and prayed AJ would screw up so you could say hahaha I was right rather than root for teh teams success.

After Gus won the job, I rooted my arse off for Gus last year, gave him credit for playing to his best abilities and helping this team. I even wanted him to come back and backup Daunte.

But to hear the back patters, it wants to be played as if we were guarenteeing AJ was a star. Far far far from the truth, all we said was he deserved a chance in preseason to show he had the mental toughness and poise, which he proved he didnt in the third or 4th game when he got his last chance against the 1s. I was happy after that we went with Gus.

Delfin 22
08-18-2006, 07:34 PM
:sidelol:

LtDan
08-18-2006, 07:36 PM
:rofl:

John Biello
08-18-2006, 07:40 PM
i have no problem "admitting" that i supported aj, to this day i would still rather have him than GUS.

PhinBeck
08-18-2006, 07:46 PM
:rofl:


Love the sig

305TillIDie
08-18-2006, 07:48 PM
thanks for Cleo Lemon San Diego :yes:

ih8brady
08-18-2006, 07:50 PM
haha! I'll se ya in hell, AJ

rafael
08-18-2006, 07:51 PM
I was one, wow you guys are so much smarter than we were. I bow down to you.

Of course all you guys patting yourselfs on the back fail to tell the whole story.

So I will refresh the argument for you. Yeap I said I liked AJs physical skills, still like his arm strength. What I hadnt seen and didnt believe that you could judge based on 2004 season where we had 1 rec 1 TE no rbs and no o-line was his mental abilities. Everbody who hated him didnt want to even give him a chance. I as well as most supporters agreed at that end he didnt have it mentally. But to sit there at the beginning of 2005 camp and say Gus was the better choice after how many years he sucked is laughable. He played on how many teams? 6 and started for 2 and was replaced by both. All we said was at least AJ had had only one year that sucked, Gus had several. You guys act like we all said AJ was the second coming, all we said that AJ may have potential, 1 season as a starter wasnt the greatest judge when compared to a career journeyman. I knew Gus wasnt a l/t starting qb and at what 34 wasnt a young future solution. So yeah I was rooting for a guy with limited experience who was younger with some physical skills to show potential mentally so at least we had a younger guy starting, not 6 other teams reject.

The biggest fight was that most who hated on AJ were so consumed with being right, rather than with the Phins. It was almost as if you guys would have sulked in a corner and hoped and prayed AJ would screw up so you could say hahaha I was right rather than root for teh teams success.

After Gus won the job, I rooted my arse off for Gus last year, gave him credit for playing to his best abilities and helping this team. I even wanted him to come back and backup Daunte.

But to hear the back patters, it wants to be played as if we were guarenteeing AJ was a star. Far far far from the truth, all we said was he deserved a chance in preseason to show he had the mental toughness and poise, which he proved he didnt in the third or 4th game when he got his last chance against the 1s. I was happy after that we went with Gus.

The point you never got and obviously still don't is that you can evaluate a QB's mental abilities without waiting for the perfect situation. You don't have to wait some predetermined number of games. If you know what to look for it was obvious early on the previous season. It wasn't about hating. I gave RS the benefit of the doubt on AJ and defended the trade on this site prior to AJ's 1st year with us. I said I hadn't seen AJ display any feel in the two games I had seen but maybe RS had seen it in the other two games he'd played. The real argument was that I'd seen all I needed to see with AJ. The outcome was obvious. It wasn't about wishing anybody would fail, it was about being able to evaluate a player. Don't call me a hater or try to define my motivations as being anti-team b/c you're not as good at evaluation.

Schmiggs
08-18-2006, 07:55 PM
best QB ever...

dlockz
08-18-2006, 09:02 PM
Hell, Frerotte may have trouble being the number 2 qb in St Louis so what the point.

chirkware
08-18-2006, 09:12 PM
Oh, c'mon guys...He's just the #3 because Whitehurst is the placeholder for fieldgoals...If Rivers goes down, Feeley is who would go in...

:goof:

...Sorry...couldn't help memories of the "he was really Philly's #2" arguement that was seen here two years ago.

Let's see:

Spielman: Give 2nd round for a 3rd stringer.

Saban: Give 2nd round for a 1st stringer, and 6th round for, err, another 1st stringer (such as he was).


Hmmm..........................:dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins: :dolphins:

footballer
08-18-2006, 09:31 PM
Chargers | Whitehurst to be No. 2 QB Friday
Fri, 18 Aug 2006 05:45:03 -0700
<A href="http://www.kffl.com/link/179">Jay Paris, of the North County Times (http://www.kffl.com/link/180), reports San Diego Chargers (http://www.kffl.com/team/31/nfl) rookie QB Charlie Whitehurst (http://www.kffl.com/player/13491/nfl) is pushing veteran QB A.J. Feeley (http://www.kffl.com/player/1477/nfl) for the role of backing up starting QB Philip Rivers (http://www.kffl.com/player/9411/nfl). It'll be Whitehurst, and not Feeley, relieving Rivers and running the second-string Friday, Aug. 18, in the team's preseason game. "With me being a rookie quarterback, it is definitely a slow process and it is a little bit frustrating," Whitehurst said. "You want to be ready to play right now, and realistically that is not going to happen. You take those baby steps and learn from your mistakes.'' Rivers said he likes working with Whitehurst. The pair competed against each other twice, with Rivers' North Carolina State team beating Whitehurst's Tigers both times.


yo, we knew what feeley was.. anfd whitehurst woudnt be beating cleo either.. we got them on that one...but not as good as philly got us.

endorPHINS72
08-18-2006, 10:29 PM
Yeah, there were plenty of people around here that were very vocal about backing him over Gus at the time. :rolleyes:

I think Lemon is dramatically better than AJ...

I know it's all ancient history, but you're right. There were people here comparing him to Brett Favre. I never saw it. Even early on when I supported him, I didn't see anything that led me to believe he would be a great QB. I hoped he could at least manage a game, which he proved incapable of.

So this news of Whitehurst beating him out really doesn't surprise me. Feeley is just a sad (and maddening) epitaph on the tombstone of the Wannstedt/Spielman Dolphins.

:fire: (Still pissed we spent a high 2nd round pick on that guy!!! I HATE YOU SPIELMAN, YOU S.O.B.!!!!)

cornell
08-18-2006, 10:34 PM
Gotta love the reality: Feeley can't hold onto 2nd string job and Fiedler is hurt and can't play... Wow doesn't that sound familar.

SackArtist
08-18-2006, 11:05 PM
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

:sidelol:

twohype
08-18-2006, 11:12 PM
Who cares.

Yep :D

mike_vee
08-18-2006, 11:23 PM
ohhh the memories.....:rolleyes:

http://www.femmefan.com/site/images/clip_image001_0004.jpg
http://www.nfl.com/u/nfl/photos/nfl1ae6_lower.jpg
http://www.fanmonster.com/browns/season/2004/2004_12_26_Dolphins/res_7594287.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/_photos/2004-11-10-inside-reax.jpg
http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2004/11/29/sp_niners6_lm.jpg
http://www.staugustine.com/images/092104/sports00.jpg
http://www.pro-files.com/images/photos/SFMIAafe002a.gif



Just makes you that much more grateful for now having Saban and Culpepper....to bad you don't have the one when someone tapped him on the butt and he almost fainted .... that was funny

Goin` Deep
08-18-2006, 11:31 PM
Well, I`m really pissed! I didn`t log on here before the Bear/Charger game tonight, so I didn`t see this thread, well I sit thru the whole damn game just to see if Feeley`s still as bad as he was in Miami, and of course he doesn`t play. Having to sit thru that game was pure torture!

lazareth
08-18-2006, 11:34 PM
Well, I`m really pissed! I didn`t log on here before the Bear/Charger game tonight, so I didn`t see this thread, well I sit thru the whole damn game just to see if Feeley`s still as bad as he was in Miami, and of course he doesn`t play. Having to sit thru that game was pure torture! :0wned:





















































:chuckle: :wink:

PhinBeck
08-18-2006, 11:38 PM
The point you never got and obviously still don't is that you can evaluate a QB's mental abilities without waiting for the perfect situation. You don't have to wait some predetermined number of games. If you know what to look for it was obvious early on the previous season. It wasn't about hating. I gave RS the benefit of the doubt on AJ and defended the trade on this site prior to AJ's 1st year with us. I said I hadn't seen AJ display any feel in the two games I had seen but maybe RS had seen it in the other two games he'd played. The real argument was that I'd seen all I needed to see with AJ. The outcome was obvious. It wasn't about wishing anybody would fail, it was about being able to evaluate a player. Don't call me a hater or try to define my motivations as being anti-team b/c you're not as good at evaluation.


No I got that point all along. The point you never got was that there are many examples of qbs that in their first year starting that look lost that go on to have solid careers, not elite, but solid starting careers. Drew Brees looked lost his first couple years, albeit never as bad as Aj but he also had LT. Yes he was better and is much better, but when he had inexperience plus o-line prob, he didnt do all that well either. Bledsoe is a huge example of the good and bad, with solid protection, he is very good, under pressure he stinks. Yes he is also better than AJ, but is an example of how even good not great, but good qbs look awful in situations their skill set doesnt provide for. What you never got was that I said AJ had the potential physically to be a good qb, I said all along i didnt believe he was elite. I said good potentially. I also stated emphatically to write him off completely after 2004 was wrong, he deserved a shot with better talent around him to see if he improved his poise with the knowledge it wasnt all on him. He showed he couldnt, he got the shot and failed. I am fine with that and yes in hindsight it was a waste.

But to pretend you knew for fact is hillarious. Your gut feeling was right. I hand it to you, you saw it. I saw it, but wanted to see if it improved within a better environment. Especially when you consider that the other option was a journeyman who 6 other teams didnt want. It isnt a leap to say give them both equal shot and compare apples to apples, not just line up stats w/o factoring the units faced. IE the Bears game where AJ wasnt spectacular by any means, but faced a tough bears first team, while Gus fared better, against the second team, yet didnt look spectacular either. Yet you all said right there Gus stats were better and he scored points so AJ is benched. It was not a fair comparison. It was a biased one based on you being right. That was the tone of the argument. That was what the exception to your argument was, not that your opinion wasnt valid, nopr potentially the correct one, just that it was stupid for any of us to even consider giving equal chances against 1st, 2nd, and 3rd units equally. That is what played out, AJ blew his shot, he deserved to be dropped to 3rd and eventually shipped out.

I also understand that he didnt seem to have the feel as you put it. My point to that was there were some mitigating circumstances, like no o-line, no run game, nothing to help take pressure off of AJ in 2004, it was him, he was the offense, he couldnt handle that. That was teh crux of my argument. He was put in the fire with a subpar offense, subpar supporting cast and horrid coaching. No qb would have done well in that environment and still believe that. Would they have shown better poise, yeah. If they are qbs that are not risk takers, they would not have thrown balls that AJ did as well. But there are also qbs that may have shown better poise but made just as many bad decisions. And most of those qbs wouldnt have been first year starters. You cant tell me AJ didnt come into the worst possible situation asa 1st year starter?

I just take exception to people who sit on their high horse and act like they are so much more knowledgeable by making the argument something it wasnt, and using a laughing tone at others opinions.

Rocky Raccoon
08-18-2006, 11:45 PM
:shakeno:

he didn't play because they wanted to give Whitehurst more time, this has nothing to do with how he is performing, he did ok last week when he played.

PhinBeck
08-18-2006, 11:46 PM
I know it's all ancient history, but you're right. There were people here comparing him to Brett Favre. I never saw it. Even early on when I supported him, I didn't see anything that led me to believe he would be a great QB. I hoped he could at least manage a game, which he proved incapable of.

So this news of Whitehurst beating him out really doesn't surprise me. Feeley is just a sad (and maddening) epitaph on the tombstone of the Wannstedt/Spielman Dolphins.

:fire: (Still pissed we spent a high 2nd round pick on that guy!!! I HATE YOU SPIELMAN, YOU S.O.B.!!!!)


LOL noone compared him to Brett Favre, there is another case of someone changing the argument to fit their reality.

The comparison to Favre was the look at Favre who is by far, leaps and bounds far, better than AJ and look at all the ints Brett throws when the argument was made about AJs ints in his first year starting. It wasnt AJ is as good as Brett, it was a great qb like Brett throws a ton of ints, yet many here expected AJ to be perfect. Why would you expect that when he is nowhere near as great as Brett nowhere near half as good yet people expected less ints. In a season where AJ was the only option, no run game and a receiver that was useless unless AJ got him the ball.

Not bashing but I have read post after post claiming arguments that never took place and quoting points never nade.

rafael
08-19-2006, 04:35 PM
No I got that point all along. The point you never got was that there are many examples of qbs that in their first year starting that look lost that go on to have solid careers, not elite, but solid starting careers. Drew Brees looked lost his first couple years, albeit never as bad as Aj but he also had LT. Yes he was better and is much better, but when he had inexperience plus o-line prob, he didnt do all that well either. Bledsoe is a huge example of the good and bad, with solid protection, he is very good, under pressure he stinks. Yes he is also better than AJ, but is an example of how even good not great, but good qbs look awful in situations their skill set doesnt provide for. What you never got was that I said AJ had the potential physically to be a good qb, I said all along i didnt believe he was elite. I said good potentially. I also stated emphatically to write him off completely after 2004 was wrong, he deserved a shot with better talent around him to see if he improved his poise with the knowledge it wasnt all on him. He showed he couldnt, he got the shot and failed. I am fine with that and yes in hindsight it was a waste.

But to pretend you knew for fact is hillarious. Your gut feeling was right. I hand it to you, you saw it. I saw it, but wanted to see if it improved within a better environment. Especially when you consider that the other option was a journeyman who 6 other teams didnt want. It isnt a leap to say give them both equal shot and compare apples to apples, not just line up stats w/o factoring the units faced. IE the Bears game where AJ wasnt spectacular by any means, but faced a tough bears first team, while Gus fared better, against the second team, yet didnt look spectacular either. Yet you all said right there Gus stats were better and he scored points so AJ is benched. It was not a fair comparison. It was a biased one based on you being right. That was the tone of the argument. That was what the exception to your argument was, not that your opinion wasnt valid, nopr potentially the correct one, just that it was stupid for any of us to even consider giving equal chances against 1st, 2nd, and 3rd units equally. That is what played out, AJ blew his shot, he deserved to be dropped to 3rd and eventually shipped out.

I also understand that he didnt seem to have the feel as you put it. My point to that was there were some mitigating circumstances, like no o-line, no run game, nothing to help take pressure off of AJ in 2004, it was him, he was the offense, he couldnt handle that. That was teh crux of my argument. He was put in the fire with a subpar offense, subpar supporting cast and horrid coaching. No qb would have done well in that environment and still believe that. Would they have shown better poise, yeah. If they are qbs that are not risk takers, they would not have thrown balls that AJ did as well. But there are also qbs that may have shown better poise but made just as many bad decisions. And most of those qbs wouldnt have been first year starters. You cant tell me AJ didnt come into the worst possible situation asa 1st year starter?

I just take exception to people who sit on their high horse and act like they are so much more knowledgeable by making the argument something it wasnt, and using a laughing tone at others opinions.

It's not about a player looking lost early on. That can be explained by not knowing the offense. Feel, however, is different. It doesn't matter what the mitigating circumstances were. That's the crux of my argument. If you know what you're looking for, it's simple to spot. It's not just a gut feeling, it's analysis and evaluation. I've now analyzed somewhere between 40-50 QBs over the last ten years or so and I've only missed once (McNabb). I've evaluated higly hyped players and no-names and I've been right almost everytime. So I take offense to people telling me that I'm hating or wishing the team ill b/c they simply don't understand.

The fact is I am more knowledgable than most. I've worked with college coaches and NFL scouts. I've had an NFL agent ask me to evaluate the NFL potential of college players for him (reviewing game tapes, flying out to games and such). (BTW of the 40 or so players I reviewed for him that he had hopes of landing I told him only two had NFL potential and they were the only two that were actually drafted) I've been told on several occasions that I should be a scout. I'm not b/c I don't like the lifestyle and I don't want to make my hobby my job and then eventually not enjoy doing it. Also, I don't feel I'm as good at evaluating every position. WR, for example is a position that I miss on as often as I hit. So, if somebody is challenging my opinion of a wr, I'm not going to be as sure simply b/c my track record doesn't warrant it. But when it comes to QBs I'm much more certain b/c my track record does warrant it. This doesn't mean that I won't listen to other people's opinions, I do. But those opinions have to be based on sound logic. The arguments for AJ's potential were not. They were based on the faulty assumption that you can't evaluate a QB with a poor supporting cast. That is simply not true. They were also looking at only half the picture. Sure AJ had the physical attributes needed, but the mental side was clearly not there. So, it was irrelevant. It made as much sense as me arguing that a QB had the perfect mind for football and therefore had potential while ignoring the fact that he had no arms. No matter how good his mind was he wouldn't have much QB potential.

PhinBeck
08-19-2006, 07:38 PM
It's not about a player looking lost early on. That can be explained by not knowing the offense. Feel, however, is different. It doesn't matter what the mitigating circumstances were. That's the crux of my argument. If you know what you're looking for, it's simple to spot. It's not just a gut feeling, it's analysis and evaluation. I've now analyzed somewhere between 40-50 QBs over the last ten years or so and I've only missed once (McNabb). I've evaluated higly hyped players and no-names and I've been right almost everytime. So I take offense to people telling me that I'm hating or wishing the team ill b/c they simply don't understand.

The fact is I am more knowledgable than most. I've worked with college coaches and NFL scouts. I've had an NFL agent ask me to evaluate the NFL potential of college players for him (reviewing game tapes, flying out to games and such). (BTW of the 40 or so players I reviewed for him that he had hopes of landing I told him only two had NFL potential and they were the only two that were actually drafted) I've been told on several occasions that I should be a scout. I'm not b/c I don't like the lifestyle and I don't want to make my hobby my job and then eventually not enjoy doing it. Also, I don't feel I'm as good at evaluating every position. WR, for example is a position that I miss on as often as I hit. So, if somebody is challenging my opinion of a wr, I'm not going to be as sure simply b/c my track record doesn't warrant it. But when it comes to QBs I'm much more certain b/c my track record does warrant it. This doesn't mean that I won't listen to other people's opinions, I do. But those opinions have to be based on sound logic. The arguments for AJ's potential were not. They were based on the faulty assumption that you can't evaluate a QB with a poor supporting cast. That is simply not true. They were also looking at only half the picture. Sure AJ had the physical attributes needed, but the mental side was clearly not there. So, it was irrelevant. It made as much sense as me arguing that a QB had the perfect mind for football and therefore had potential while ignoring the fact that he had no arms. No matter how good his mind was he wouldn't have much QB potential.

So your saying you and only you who agree with you know what to look for? And anyone else who thinks that an inexperienced qb who is pressured as soon as he gets the ball should be given at least a shot to show their abilities in normal environments are stupid?

As far as you being more knowledgeable, I dont doubt that, but doesnt mean noone else is qualified nor is it proven that your superior to us simply because you said so.

As far as AJ potential goes, noone said he had the elite potential, even said he didnt, but he had the potential to be a Trent Green, a step up from fiedler. So you say it was not sound, so therefore it is fact? Numerous so called experts who get paid by the NFL are wrong about qbs with Feel as you say it, so while you toot your horn, I will also say I am glad for you that you are involved, I will also say that none of this is or was teh complete argument. You make it out that in simple terms we thought AJ was great. Not true, we thought he had potential to be better than Jay, which considering Jay had over .600 winning % wasnt bad, wasnt great but good. Alex Smith who everyone loved, looked total lost and showed very little poise last year do you think he is a bust already? Yeap has more potential than AJ, but showed no feel, looked paniced, like a deer in headlights, jumping around in the pocket. How many examples do you want?

PhinBeck
08-19-2006, 08:27 PM
Raphael, I read my reply and once again doesnt say what I wanted to say.

Here it is simply.

You may have more expertise than I at evaluation process, wont debate you on that. I dont evaluate nor scout for anyone. Played and coached at lower levels, pop warner mostly coaching played high school.

The point I am making is evaluation is NOT an exact science. I give you the credit for seeing it standing by it and being right. But history is riddled with people paid to evaluate being dead wrong.

The other point was, who was available that was better? In 2004 , Warner?, Tried for Brunell and Ramsey lost out. AJ was the choice. Too high price? Maybe, yeah now in hindsight. 2005 we signed Gus. Gus is not a superior upgrade, yes he is an upgrade and the argument he was better was a valid opinion. I didnt agree, and yes is was biased based on some things I saw in Cinci and Wash, but I understood the argument. My point was that Gus wasnt an elite qb and would never be so it was worth seeing what AJ could do.

All that aside, why I argue now is because you and many in this thread make it out like we were saying AJ was great, which is false absolutely false. Our point was that based on what we had and what we needed compared to what was available and the qbs in the draft were not clear cut franchise type #2 picks, why not give AJ a chance to win the job?

The tone of teh argument presented suggests we thought AJ was better to have than getting Daunte or pursuing Brees. Hardly. Aj was never going to be elite.

Phinz4Life
08-19-2006, 09:56 PM
ohhh the memories.....:rolleyes:

http://www.femmefan.com/site/images/clip_image001_0004.jpg
http://www.nfl.com/u/nfl/photos/nfl1ae6_lower.jpg
http://www.fanmonster.com/browns/season/2004/2004_12_26_Dolphins/res_7594287.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/_photos/2004-11-10-inside-reax.jpg
http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2004/11/29/sp_niners6_lm.jpg
http://www.staugustine.com/images/092104/sports00.jpg
http://www.pro-files.com/images/photos/SFMIAafe002a.gif



Just makes you that much more grateful for now having Saban and Culpepper....

Yeah, a TERRIBLE offensive line had NO part in Feeley getting plowed.

The dude was absolutely beaten up. Way to blame blockage on him. I don't find those pictures funny at all. I feel bad for the guy.

Don't rag him on things he couldn't control (i.e. those pictures).

rafael
08-19-2006, 11:30 PM
Raphael, I read my reply and once again doesnt say what I wanted to say.

Here it is simply.

You may have more expertise than I at evaluation process, wont debate you on that. I dont evaluate nor scout for anyone. Played and coached at lower levels, pop warner mostly coaching played high school.

The point I am making is evaluation is NOT an exact science. I give you the credit for seeing it standing by it and being right. But history is riddled with people paid to evaluate being dead wrong.

The other point was, who was available that was better? In 2004 , Warner?, Tried for Brunell and Ramsey lost out. AJ was the choice. Too high price? Maybe, yeah now in hindsight. 2005 we signed Gus. Gus is not a superior upgrade, yes he is an upgrade and the argument he was better was a valid opinion. I didnt agree, and yes is was biased based on some things I saw in Cinci and Wash, but I understood the argument. My point was that Gus wasnt an elite qb and would never be so it was worth seeing what AJ could do.

All that aside, why I argue now is because you and many in this thread make it out like we were saying AJ was great, which is false absolutely false. Our point was that based on what we had and what we needed compared to what was available and the qbs in the draft were not clear cut franchise type #2 picks, why not give AJ a chance to win the job?

The tone of teh argument presented suggests we thought AJ was better to have than getting Daunte or pursuing Brees. Hardly. Aj was never going to be elite.

Two points. It wasn't worth seeing what AJ could do b/c we had already seen it. That's already been proven.

The other point is that I never said that anybody thought AJ was great. The tone which you're referring to is very hard to interpret in written word. It certainly wasn't anything I interpreted in the posts I read. In fact, in my post that you initially responded to in this thread all I ever said was that people attacked me for not wanting to waste more time with him and that many posters thought he was better than Gus. All that is true. Any claims of alledging greatness were imagined, at least when it comes to my posts.

PhinBeck
08-20-2006, 12:24 AM
Two points. It wasn't worth seeing what AJ could do b/c we had already seen it. That's already been proven.

The other point is that I never said that anybody thought AJ was great. The tone which you're referring to is very hard to interpret in written word. It certainly wasn't anything I interpreted in the posts I read. In fact, in my post that you initially responded to in this thread all I ever said was that people attacked me for not wanting to waste more time with him and that many posters thought he was better than Gus. All that is true. Any claims of alledging greatness were imagined, at least when it comes to my posts.

Hindsight wonderful isnt it.

I tried to be cordial, no give in you.

You say it was fact before it was fact? Ok. You ended up right so your an expert. Ok.

You believe and say what you want. But yeah in the same situation down the line and we have a inexperienced qb that played in one season in the worst possible situation a first year starter can be asked to play in and the qb we bring to compete for the job is a reject of 6 teams, teams desparate for a qb and he couldnt even stick as a backup until his 30s, I will still say see what the inexperienced guy can do.

You can tell me how great your opinion is all you want, doesnt mean I buy it.

It s great to say AFTER the fact that you find it funny you were criticized for not wanting to give AJ a chance and look how it turned out, but the funny thing is, you can that now in this situation cause you happened to be right. Another thing is, I am happy, I got what I wanted, AJ was given his shot, and he failed. No excuses, no mitigating circumstances, just a fair shot and he failed.

Now, right or wrong, look at your points vs mine, I am concerned with the fins, while you apoparantly from your posts are concerned with expressing your superiority. I can admit I was wrong about AJ being good.

I dont even know why I keep arguing this. I guess it is teh smugness in which I take from your responses.

But another funny thing is, Gus must not have been that good either, cause Saban didnt care enough to keep him around. So what that tells me is that it isnt far fetched to think it wasnt a bad idea to see if AJ could be a solution til we found our long term guy cause obviously Saban didnt feel Gus was the guy either. What is my point? exactly what I have been saying and said then. Our other options last summer were not mountains better than AJ, as it turns out, better, better poise, better decisions, but obviously not so much better that Saban felt comfortable in any of them since not a single one of them are still on the team. So sing your own praises all you want, but keep in mind it is easy when all you got right was say out of 3 qbs that turned out to not be a starter, you got the least viable one.

I wanted AJ to be the guy for 2 reasons, 1 - younger than Gus, less of pourous track record than Gus, 2 - it freed up options in coming years. He wasnt and we got the guy that should and believe will. I wanted AJ because of what it did for the fins as a whole. You appear to have wanted Gus so you could be right.

If none of this is true, then I apologize, but when I see someone touting how he is more qualified because he says he is (and you may be, as stated before, but no way for me to know) so his opinion is more valid somehow because after it was over he turned out to be right it makes me laugh. It is like picking winners in a football poll, some skill comes in when choosing, some knowledge is needed. and over period of time, you can be right more often than not, doesnt mean the next pick is going to win.

You can say all you want how he proved in 2004 he couldnt play. I say you believe what you want. As it turns out you end up right. But hindsight. You can say it is your expertise all you want, I say it is easy to say that when you have hindsight in your favor.

You may and as it turns out did, have seen something in 2004 that said AJ didnt have teh intangibles needed mentally, the "it" factor. I say far better qbs have looked as if the "it" factor was missing only to turn it around later in their careers. Gannon was one, Brad Johnson another Br Griese third. Not elite or great qbs, but had solid years starting. Yes better than AJ. But all had periods where they lacked that "it", granted none to the exttent AJ did in 2004, but havent seen many qbs that started their first year in teh situation AJ did either.

Considering what the other options were, there wasnt any reason not to allow AJ to compete. Obviously Saban must not have the same expertise you do, cause he gave him that chance. AJ blew it and PROVED he didnt have what it took with that chance. But Saban didnt look at 2004 and write AJ off. Say whatever you want, but the FACT remains Saban gave him a chance to start. So it readily apparant that to Saban, it wasnt completely proven in 2004, or there was no need to have a competition.