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feelthepain
08-22-2006, 01:43 PM
The LB we tried to get in trade with Saints for Eddie Moore . Wonder If Saban still tries to get him or if it was to just get rid of Moore and replace him at the same time.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4026

DolfanDaveInATX
08-22-2006, 01:57 PM
We signed Keith Newman instead and seem to be pretty happy with him. I think the plan for the 3-4 is to use Crowder inside instead of outside.

Disgustipate
08-22-2006, 02:07 PM
We signed Keith Newman instead and seem to be pretty happy with him. I think the plan for the 3-4 is to use Crowder inside instead of outside.

I think there is some confusion with Crowder's position and I keep seeing this mentioned this way.

Crowder is, for all intents and purposes an OLB in name only. I'd say a good 80%+ of the time plus he's lined up exactly like a 3-4 ILB, a couple of yards deep over the (left usually) guard. He's only a OLB in that Jason Taylor has his hand on the ground, the positioning is pretty much the same.

Newman and Watson occupy different positions. Newman has played backup to strongside OLB(Donnie Spragan, lined standing up on the strongside), or open end(Jason Taylor, usually in a 3-point stance wide to the weakside or standing up).

I think if we signed Watson, and what we were interested in having him play was backup MLB/ILB. If we sign him, I think it would be as a replacement to Mike Labinjo as a kind of attacking style ILB.

Bjorn
08-22-2006, 02:38 PM
The LB we tried to get in trade with Saints for Eddie Moore . Wonder If Saban still tries to get him or if it was to just get rid of Moore and replace him at the same time.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4026
I don't know anything about him, but if he wasn't good enough for the Saints or the Bills then why would we want him?:confused2

Enforcerfin33
08-22-2006, 02:40 PM
I don't know anything about him, but if he wasn't good enough for the Saints or the Bills then why would we want him?:confused2:
You know thats an awful good question.

Kenny_Stang
08-22-2006, 02:42 PM
I don't know anything about him, but if he wasn't good enough for the Saints or the Bills then why would we want him?:confused2:

One coaches trash is another coaches treasure? :confused: :lol:

Mr. Miyagi
08-22-2006, 03:17 PM
I don't know anything about him, but if he wasn't good enough for the Saints or the Bills then why would we want him?:confused2
Where were you when they brought in Sammy Morris and Bennie Anderson?

Enforcerfin33
08-22-2006, 03:19 PM
Where were you when they brought in Sammy Morris and Bennie Anderson?
Probably saying the same exact thing

PhinsRock
08-22-2006, 03:59 PM
Man, if a guy can't make it in NO, then can't make it in Barfalo - leave him go away won't ya? Why in heck would WE want him?

Whitner20
08-22-2006, 04:18 PM
Because The Bills LB's are better than your LB's

Motion
08-22-2006, 04:21 PM
Because The Bills LB's are better than your LB's

:lol:

DolfanCole
08-22-2006, 04:22 PM
So let me get this straight ... we tried to trade Eddie Moore to the Saints, but he failed his physical. Thus we tried to trade "damaged goods". Now, Watson does get traded, but to Buffalo. And then he gets cut. So, the Saints tried to trade us "no goods".

Motion
08-22-2006, 04:23 PM
So let me get this straight ... we tried to trade Eddie Moore to the Saints, but he failed his physical. Thus we tried to trade "damaged goods". Now, Watson does get traded, but to Buffalo. And then he gets cut. So, the Saints tried to trade us "no goods".

Apparently

Enforcerfin33
08-22-2006, 04:23 PM
Because The Bills LB's are better than your LB's
Are you serious??? come on get a clue...Takeo Spikes is a juiced up bulldozer at best...and the guy they got from Indy...Brackett I think.....is subpar....:tantrum:

Mr. Miyagi
08-22-2006, 04:55 PM
Are you serious??? come on get a clue...Takeo Spikes is a juiced up bulldozer at best...and the guy they got from Indy...Brackett I think.....is subpar....:tantrum:
It's Larry Tripplet, and he's a DT not a LB.

Vertical Limit
08-22-2006, 06:11 PM
Because The Bills LB's are better than your LB's
:lol: You can't be serious. :sidelol:

Winbaby#23
08-22-2006, 06:15 PM
Because The Bills LB's are better than your LB'sDude i need some of that **** your smoking.. :sidelol: :sidelol:

B-LO, BABY
08-22-2006, 07:06 PM
Uh, Spikes and Crowell are head and shoulders above Spragan and Crowder, and Fletcher and Thomas are basically even.

Before you all go crazy, here are some stats to think about:

Fletcher has more tackles than any other NFL player over the last 6 years.

Last year, Crowell had 115 tackles, 3 sacks, and 2 INTs. Crowder had 85 tackles, 0 sacks, and 0 INTs.

I don't need to look up stats to prove the Spikes/Spragan argument.

Nappy Roots
08-22-2006, 07:08 PM
Uh, Spikes and Crowell are head and shoulders above Spragan and Crowder, and Fletcher and Thomas are basically even.

Before you all go crazy, here are some stats to think about:

Fletcher has more tackles than any other NFL player over the last 6 years.

Last year, Crowell had 115 tackles, 3 sacks, and 2 INTs. Crowder had 85 tackles, 0 sacks, and 0 INTs.

I don't need to look up stats to prove the Spikes/Spragan argument.


:shakeno:

spikes and fletcher (very underrated) are great LBs in this league, but neither are as good as Zach...take the homer glasses off.

B-LO, BABY
08-22-2006, 07:27 PM
:shakeno:

spikes and fletcher (very underrated) are great LBs in this league, but neither are as good as Zach...take the homer glasses off.
Currently, Spikes is better than Thomas.

Nappy Roots
08-22-2006, 07:31 PM
Currently, Spikes is better than Thomas.


no...no hes not. and Fletcher is not even with Zach....

:shakeno:

MillerTime
08-22-2006, 07:40 PM
bills LBs are better then the fins, stop being homers

TotoreMexico
08-22-2006, 07:44 PM
Because The Bills LB's are better than your LB's

LMAO

TotoreMexico
08-22-2006, 07:45 PM
Currently, Spikes is better than Thomas.

ROFLMFAO

GoBills24
08-22-2006, 08:30 PM
bills LBs are better then the fins, stop being homers

Exactly.

PhinFan0202
08-22-2006, 08:43 PM
Currently, Spikes is better than Thomas.

My ***! Spikes is great and all but he's not better than Zach. If anything they would be even. Zach was 2nd in tackles(158) last year and he missed time, How many did London Fletcher have?Thomas has had 100+ tackles for the last 6-7 years if im not mistaken if not more. I'm not even going to put any effort into arguing about if Posey is better than Zach because we all know that's not true. Spikes is a great linebacker don't get me wrong but i;m not going to say he's better than Z.T.

DolfanCole
08-22-2006, 09:01 PM
Uh, Spikes and Crowell are head and shoulders above Spragan and Crowder, and Fletcher and Thomas are basically even.

Before you all go crazy, here are some stats to think about:

Fletcher has more tackles than any other NFL player over the last 6 years.

Last year, Crowell had 115 tackles, 3 sacks, and 2 INTs. Crowder had 85 tackles, 0 sacks, and 0 INTs.

I don't need to look up stats to prove the Spikes/Spragan argument. The number of tackles is not a very good argument. The Bills defense had a lot more snaps than the Fins -- meaning the Bills were on defense more and had more opportunities for tackles. :wink:

For me, I would put Zach a little above Fletcher, Crowder above Crowell, and Spikes above Spragan. But, I think all of these matchups are close.

GoBills24
08-23-2006, 12:12 AM
Zach was 2nd in tackles(158) last year and he missed time, How many did London Fletcher have?
158

http://www.buffalobills.com/games/statscenter.html

104 solo.

Also, I think that Crowell is better than Crowder overall.

Vertical Limit
08-23-2006, 12:17 AM
158

http://www.buffalobills.com/games/statscenter.html

104 solo.

Also, I think that Crowell is better than Crowder overall.
Zach Thomas has the same statistics, but he missed 2 games. He would have easily got to 180+.

GoBills24
08-23-2006, 12:31 AM
Zach Thomas has the same statistics, but he missed 2 games. He would have easily got to 180+.

Could've been injured worse if he did play in the two games.

Assuming is a tough thing.

Nappy Roots
08-23-2006, 12:39 AM
Could've been injured worse if he did play in the two games.

Assuming is a tough thing.


so stats matter even if injuries? cause you do know what happend to Spikes last year dont you?

please, give it up. you know as well as we all know Zach is better then those 2.

Vertical Limit
08-23-2006, 12:42 AM
Could've been injured worse if he did play in the two games.

Assuming is a tough thing.
And being ignorant to that fact is plain stupid.

Your Bills ranked 31st in run defense all season in 2005, and overall defense 31st as well, allowing 138 rushing yards per game, and 360 yards overall per game. So most of those tackles were likely chasing people from behind, which really is nothing impressive. :rolleyes:

Edit: How ironic, this post is the 31st reply to this topic, which is the overall ranking for the Bills defense last season.

GoBills24
08-23-2006, 01:47 AM
so stats matter even if injuries? cause you do know what happend to Spikes last year dont you?

please, give it up. you know as well as we all know Zach is better then those 2.
Spikes was injured for 14.5 games, not 2.

LOL, give it up.

It's a close battle between Fletcher-Thomas, and you say "give it up"???

:shakeno:

Edit: Some numbers.

Since the start of the millenium,

Thomas - 524 tackles
Fletcher - 583 tackles

In 2003 and 2004, we ranked #2 in total defense.

Still want me to "give it up"????

GoBills24
08-23-2006, 01:48 AM
And being ignorant to that fact is plain stupid.

Your Bills ranked 31st in run defense all season in 2005, and overall defense 31st as well, allowing 138 rushing yards per game, and 360 yards overall per game. So most of those tackles were likely chasing people from behind, which really is nothing impressive. :rolleyes:

Edit: How ironic, this post is the 31st reply to this topic, which is the overall ranking for the Bills defense last season.

As I said before, Spikes missed 14.5 games.

You think that might make a WEEE bit difference in defensive rankings?

:rolleyes:

BuffaloSoldier2
08-23-2006, 02:34 AM
The number of tackles is not a very good argument. The Bills defense had a lot more snaps than the Fins -- meaning the Bills were on defense more and had more opportunities for tackles. :wink:

For me, I would put Zach a little above Fletcher, Crowder above Crowell, and Spikes above Spragan. But, I think all of these matchups are close.

Well, obviously all of us are homers for our guys. And please don't take anything I'm saying as trash talking. I'm just stating the way I see things. And tackles isn't a good way to measure things because we all know Thoams is the kick of diving on the pile and getting tackles.

Seriously, the best way to measue a LB's worth is big plays they make - tackles for lost, forced fumbles and fumble recoveries, sacks, and ints.

First things first, please don't even say Spikes and Spragan name in the same sentence again. In 2004, Spikes was the best OLB in football, and IMO, the best LB in football. Spikes forced 3 fumbles, had 5 picks, 3 sacks, and 2 tds while playing on the number #2 defense in the NFL. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12722 Those are amazing numbers for a LB.

The rest I pretty much agree on. I definitely think Fletcher in underrated and Thomas is a little overrated. Still, I give the edge to Thomas. As for Crowell and Crowder, it's pretty much a toss up. They are both young players, though Crowell has made more big plays. Spragan is a career backup who is without a doubt the weak point of your core and doesn't really belong in this discussion.

Dolfan984
08-23-2006, 02:55 AM
Spikes is a better athlete than Zach, but they are very equal linebackers IMO. Fletcher is a half step behind them. Crowder is a little better than Crowell, and they're all better than Spragan (who's not horrible) I think overall the Bills have a better LB core, but not by a hell of a lot.

Now front 7? ;) Different story. :)

denn34
08-23-2006, 06:44 AM
Uh, Spikes and Crowell are head and shoulders above Spragan and Crowder, and Fletcher and Thomas are basically even.

Before you all go crazy, here are some stats to think about:

Fletcher has more tackles than any other NFL player over the last 6 years.

Last year, Crowell had 115 tackles, 3 sacks, and 2 INTs. Crowder had 85 tackles, 0 sacks, and 0 INTs.

I don't need to look up stats to prove the Spikes/Spragan argument.
The reason for that, is that the Bills offense is never on the field for more than 3 plays!

Motion
08-23-2006, 08:11 AM
Currently, Spikes is better than Thomas.

:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:

WTF!?! Based on what!?

Enforcerfin33
08-23-2006, 08:11 AM
Currently, Spikes is better than Thomas.
oh sorry, wrong again...thanks for playing!!!!:dolphins:

DolfanCole
08-23-2006, 10:37 AM
Well, obviously all of us are homers for our guys. And please don't take anything I'm saying as trash talking. I'm just stating the way I see things. And tackles isn't a good way to measure things because we all know Thoams is the kick of diving on the pile and getting tackles.

Seriously, the best way to measue a LB's worth is big plays they make - tackles for lost, forced fumbles and fumble recoveries, sacks, and ints.

First things first, please don't even say Spikes and Spragan name in the same sentence again. In 2004, Spikes was the best OLB in football, and IMO, the best LB in football. Spikes forced 3 fumbles, had 5 picks, 3 sacks, and 2 tds while playing on the number #2 defense in the NFL. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12722 Those are amazing numbers for a LB.

The rest I pretty much agree on. I definitely think Fletcher in underrated and Thomas is a little overrated. Still, I give the edge to Thomas. As for Crowell and Crowder, it's pretty much a toss up. They are both young players, though Crowell has made more big plays. Spragan is a career backup who is without a doubt the weak point of your core and doesn't really belong in this discussion.
I gave you Spikes over Spragan, although I think it's a little closer than what you think. And, you're right that's probably the homer in me.

B-LO, BABY
08-23-2006, 02:22 PM
All of you need to get off Crowder's jock, too. He had 85 tackles with no sacks or picks. How you can say he's better than Crowell; who started one less game but had 20 more tackles, 3 sacks, and 2 INTs; is beyond me.

Seriously, the only LB on your team that would have a shot in hell of starting in Buffalo is Thomas who (despite what you all have said) you would trade for Spikes in a heartbeat.

Motion
08-23-2006, 02:39 PM
All of you need to get off Crowder's jock, too. He had 85 tackles with no sacks or picks. How you can say he's better than Crowell; who started one less game but had 20 more tackles, 3 sacks, and 2 INTs; is beyond me.

Seriously, the only LB on your team that would have a shot in hell of starting in Buffalo is Thomas who (despite what you all have said) you would trade for Spikes in a heartbeat.

:lol: WTF has Spikes ever done to warrant that kind of respect?

GoBills24
08-23-2006, 02:42 PM
:lol: WTF has Spikes ever done to warrant that kind of respect?

Pro Bowls.

B-LO, BABY
08-23-2006, 05:35 PM
:lol: WTF has Spikes ever done to warrant that kind of respect?
In his 34 games with the Bills, he has had 242 tackles, 6 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, 7 INTs, and has scored 3 TDs.

He also made the Pro Bowl the first two years he in Buffalo. Who knows how his stats would've been had he not gone out early in Week 3 last season.

Quit being a homer; he is one of the premier LBs in the game.

Vertical Limit
08-23-2006, 08:26 PM
As I said before, Spikes missed 14.5 games.

You think that might make a WEEE bit difference in defensive rankings?

:rolleyes:
Assuming that Spikes would have made a difference is a tough thing. :lol:

GoBills24
08-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Assuming that Spikes would have made a difference is a tough thing. :lol:

Touche you son of a biatch.

:lol:

Motion
08-24-2006, 07:59 AM
In his 34 games with the Bills, he has had 242 tackles, 6 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, 7 INTs, and has scored 3 TDs.

He also made the Pro Bowl the first two years he in Buffalo. Who knows how his stats would've been had he not gone out early in Week 3 last season.

Quit being a homer; he is one of the premier LBs in the game.

I wasn't doubting that he's not a elite LB, just that he's on Zach's level. Save the homer comments, don't be a hypocrite.

Winbaby#23
08-24-2006, 07:16 PM
In his 34 games with the Bills, he has had 242 tackles, 6 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, 7 INTs, and has scored 3 TDs.

He also made the Pro Bowl the first two years he in Buffalo. Who knows how his stats would've been had he not gone out early in Week 3 last season.

Quit being a homer; he is one of the premier LBs in the game.Spikes is gonna know what spikes feel like after Ronnie leaves his spike marks on his chest after he runs him over.:cooldude:

GoBills24
08-24-2006, 11:36 PM
Spikes is gonna know what spikes feel like after Ronnie leaves his spike marks on his chest after he runs him over.:cooldude:

Good one, and great creativity.

:rolleyes2

icephinfan
08-25-2006, 02:33 PM
Watson got claimed by the Texans.

MelbournePhin
08-27-2006, 12:10 PM
whoopedy doo. the bills have better LB's. Have fun with a 5-11 season