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View Full Version : Ryan Howard - the real NL MVP



Roman529
08-26-2006, 12:38 AM
Ryan Howard gets my vote for NL MVP:

AVG.: .293
HR's: 45
RBI's: 117

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Roman529
08-28-2006, 04:53 PM
Howard MVP update:

BA: .294
HRs: 47
RBI's: 122

My Phil's lost 8-3 to the NY Muts monday. :boohoo: But we acquired Jeff Conine. :tongue:

RWhitney014
08-28-2006, 04:59 PM
I don't think he's the MVP just because he's the third-best player in his own division, behind Beltran and Cabrera, and Pujols has a leg up on him.

But boy, that one's a beast. I'm not looking forward to dealing with him for the next 10 years. Although I'd like to see what numbers he'd put up in a real park.

AirMarino83
08-28-2006, 05:14 PM
um... no mvp for mr. howard.
nice numbers for a guy on a second place team that is 15 back... wild card is a possiblity for the phils but they got tons of competition.

NYPhinFan
08-28-2006, 05:22 PM
um... no mvp for mr. howard.
nice numbers for a guy on a second place team that is 15 back... wild card is a possiblity for the phils but they got tons of competition.
The absolute same can be said for Cabrera.and the Marlins.....not a slight at both of them...they are all SUPER players.

RWhitney014
08-28-2006, 05:29 PM
The absolute same can be said for Cabrera.and the Marlins.....not a slight at both of them...they are all SUPER players.

Yeah, but Cabrera's got much less protection in his lineup, at least on paper. And he's got a great shot at a batting title. Without him, I shudder to think where the Marlins are.

Hey, Howard's an incredible hitter. With all likelihood, Beltran wins the MVP because of his market. Pujols has the star power to beat him, but Cabrera and Howard likely won't crash that party.

BTW, here's Howard's hit chart at CBP this season with his homers marked. I count at least 7 homers to left that aren't in most parks. He's got great, great power and is a behemoth, but he's got a definite home field advantage. Nothing wrong with that or against him, but it's true.

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=429667&statType=1

Aqua4Ever04
08-28-2006, 05:36 PM
It has to be Carlos Beltran. For one, he is killing the baseball. And secondly, he plays on the only team that I consider varsity in a JV league.

Roman529
08-28-2006, 05:37 PM
I think Howard will get it like when A-Rod got it for hitting over 50 homers, even though his Ranger's finished in last place. I know Pujols and Beltran are the favorites...just hope my Phils make the playoffs.

NJFINSFAN1
08-28-2006, 06:18 PM
I think Howard will get it like when A-Rod got it for hitting over 50 homers, even though his Ranger's finished in last place. I know Pujols and Beltran are the favorites...just hope my Phils make the playoffs.

He should be a strong in the running, but Beltran just has to many huge hits! And Puljos is carrying the Cards to a division title by himself.

Nothing against Howard, he has killed the Mets this year, you see that shot in the 8th today!:boohoo:

djfresh47
08-28-2006, 11:22 PM
He's got a chance at 60, why not him? If the Phillies win the wildcard he's gotta be considered.

Roman529
08-30-2006, 01:01 AM
HOWARD HOMERS AGAIN.

Philadelphia (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/phi) 10, Washington (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/was) 6
Preview (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/preview?gid=260829120) - Box Score (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=260829120) - Recap
August 30, 2006
http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?slug=8c82652811fe4bf0aa5ea235d36e89bc.phillies_nationals_baseball_rfk107&prov=ap)
AP - Aug 29, 11:13 pm EDT
More Photos (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/was/photos)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Ryan Howard (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7437/) isn't ready to be compared to Mike Schmidt, no matter what the record book says.
Howard matched Schmidt's franchise record with his major league-leading 48th home run this season, helping the Philadelphia Phillies (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/phi/) to a 10-6 victory over the Washington Nationals (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/was/) on Tuesday night.
"It means a lot, but in my eyes I've still got a lot of work to do to even get on that type of level," Howard said. "Right now as far as the single-season home run thing, it's an honor and it's a cool thing to be a part of."
Howard hit a three-run shot to center field in the sixth inning off reliever Kevin Gryboski (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6905/), equaling the club mark set by Schmidt in 1980 -- when the Hall of Fame third baseman led the Phillies to their only World Series championship. Howard finished 2-for-3 with two walks. His three RBIs gave him a major league-best 125 for the year.

Slappy8800
08-30-2006, 01:15 AM
he gets my vote as well

i mean look at that lineup beltran is hitting in...

djfresh47
08-30-2006, 01:34 AM
he gets my vote as well

i mean look at that lineup beltran is hitting in...

I don't think we can look at the lineups guys are hitting in atleast this year. Like I do in all NL threads i'll bring up the AL and look at the MVP race which has Morneau with the Twins who I thought I heard have the highest BA in the majors, Jeter who has the great Yankees lineup, Dye who has 4 guys on the team who will hit 30 and probably drive in 100, and Ortiz who has Ramirez. Ortiz maybe out if he is out for an extended period of time. Howard does have J-Roll and Utley who are very good players but he's got a chance to lead the majors in HR and RBI's while hitting a respectable batting average and having the Phillies contend so he's in the running.

dominizzo
08-30-2006, 03:50 AM
Hes sick!! HEs the enxt BEst thing in Philadelphia

Slappy8800
08-30-2006, 04:09 AM
Hes sick!! HEs the enxt BEst thing in Philadelphia

next best?? who is ahead of him

Alex44
08-30-2006, 12:13 PM
I don't think we can look at the lineups guys are hitting in atleast this year. Like I do in all NL threads i'll bring up the AL and look at the MVP race which has Morneau with the Twins who I thought I heard have the highest BA in the majors, Jeter who has the great Yankees lineup, Dye who has 4 guys on the team who will hit 30 and probably drive in 100, and Ortiz who has Ramirez. Ortiz maybe out if he is out for an extended period of time. Howard does have J-Roll and Utley who are very good players but he's got a chance to lead the majors in HR and RBI's while hitting a respectable batting average and having the Phillies contend so he's in the running.

Pujols would be right there with him in numbers if he wasnt hurt, and he has a better batting average

miamikid92
08-30-2006, 02:35 PM
his name is dan uggla!

just kiddin, i think it should either be miguel cabrera, or ryan howard.

NJFINSFAN1
08-31-2006, 11:11 AM
He's on the Juice!:rolleyes:

Boik14
08-31-2006, 12:01 PM
Beltran's stats would be right there with him if he hadnt missed 3 weeks in april.

Howards having a tremendous season without a doubt but hes going to get overshadowed by Ap and CB leading their teams to division titles

Roman529
08-31-2006, 01:56 PM
He's on the Juice!:rolleyes:

NO WAAAAAYYY...take it back!!! :tantrum: I know the Mets are Phearing the Phils if they meet in a five game series. :tongue:

Roman529
08-31-2006, 10:53 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Two blown late-inning leads culminating in a game-ending wild pitch overshadowed Ryan Howard (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7437/)'s franchise record 49th homer and kept the Philadelphia Phillies (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/phi/) from gaining a share of the NL wild card lead.


:rolleyes:

FinsNYanksFan13
08-31-2006, 11:04 PM
NO WAAAAAYYY...take it back!!! :tantrum: I know the Mets are Phearing the Phils if they meet in a five game series. :tongue:


Well if you knew anything about baseball, you would know the Mets wouldn't ever see the Phillies in a 5 game playoff series!

Roman529
09-01-2006, 02:39 PM
Well if you knew anything about baseball, you would know the Mets wouldn't ever see the Phillies in a 5 game playoff series!

OK, so you lucked out, until the NLCS.

In each Division Series, the wild-card winner plays the champion from another division with the best record.

Roman529
09-03-2006, 04:39 PM
Ryan Howard just hit home run #51, #52, and #53....three doinks.

HOWARD HAS TO BE THE MVP NOW!!!!

Phillies gave up 2 in the 8th and 4 in the 9th to trail 7-6 and then the Phils get two in the bottom of the 9th for a walk off win.

:tongue:

DonShula84
09-03-2006, 07:40 PM
Ryan Howard just hit home run #51, #52, and #53....three doinks.

HOWARD HAS TO BE THE MVP NOW!!!!

Phillies gave up 2 in the 8th and 4 in the 9th to trail 7-6 and then the Phils get two in the bottom of the 9th for a walk off win.

:tongue:

Pujols matched him though, he definitely didnt clinch anything today

Alex44
09-03-2006, 07:43 PM
Ryan Howard just hit home run #51, #52, and #53....three doinks.

HOWARD HAS TO BE THE MVP NOW!!!!

Phillies gave up 2 in the 8th and 4 in the 9th to trail 7-6 and then the Phils get two in the bottom of the 9th for a walk off win.

:tongue:

I want you to take the wildcard lead, since we play you 10 times :lol: this seems to be setting up in somewhat similar fashion to 03 :wink:

phinphan896
09-03-2006, 08:33 PM
He's on the Juice!:rolleyes:
of course not, hes only the size of a roider

FinsNYanksFan13
09-03-2006, 10:10 PM
If the Phillies win the Wild-Card I would give my vote to Howard. If they don't, then I am giving my vote to Pujols (not that I actually have one lol). Beltran is injured and will be rested until he is 110 percent so he lost my vote not only because of that, but because he has David Wright, Delgado, Reyes, ect. Howard on the other hand lost Abreu out of his line-up and is carrying a team that was dead a month ago. Pujols (who also hit 3 homers today) is carrying the Cards offensively and is having an enormous year despite missing time with injury. Another guy I think deserves more credit for his season is Soriano. If he goes 40/40 or 50/40 (and 50/45 is possible if Robinson keeps letting him lose on the base pads) he will deserve consideration. Not that he will win it but he will deserve consideration!

Roman529
09-04-2006, 04:09 PM
Dan Wetzel, of Yahoo Sports, wrote a column hinting that "Ryan Howard may be on the juice." Funny how he did not accuse Albert Pujols of the same thing following his three homers yesterday. I hate these idiot journalist who make accusations without any facts whatsoever. Just like the dumb *** Cardinal's broadcaster who accused Todd Helton of being on the juice a few years back. :mad:

phinphan896
09-04-2006, 04:24 PM
Dan Wetzel, of Yahoo Sports, wrote a column hinting that "Ryan Howard may be on the juice." Funny how he did not accuse Albert Pujols of the same thing following his three homers yesterday. I hate these idiot journalist who make accusations without any facts whatsoever. Just like the dumb *** Cardinal's broadcaster who accused Todd Helton of being on the juice a few years back. :mad:
pujols is a roider 2, his trainer was supposedly one of the names blacked out in the jason grimsley report

Roman529
09-04-2006, 04:45 PM
Damnnnn, Howard just hit his 53rd homer...Phillies leading 2-1 over Houston.

:tongue:

PhilliePhinatic
09-04-2006, 05:53 PM
2-2 in the top of the 10th now, the Phillies again cant seem to hold on to a lead when Howard helps them out. This time i cant blame the bullpen though, Cole Hamels pitched a solid game and they just left him into long. He had a perfect game going through 5.2, and a 1 hitter going late in the game. But i think come the 8th inning you've got to have a good enough bullpen to be able to save the game and the Phillies, without Tom Gordon, just dont have that.

Edit: Chase Utley hit a walk off homer in the bottom of the 10th inning, Phils win 3-2. It also appears Tom Gordon will be ready to go from now on, as he was being warmed up in the bullpen for todays game. Which is great news for the Phils down the stretch.

Roman529
09-04-2006, 08:09 PM
2-2 in the top of the 10th now, the Phillies again cant seem to hold on to a lead when Howard helps them out. This time i cant blame the bullpen though, Cole Hamels pitched a solid game and they just left him into long. He had a perfect game going through 5.2, and a 1 hitter going late in the game. But i think come the 8th inning you've got to have a good enough bullpen to be able to save the game and the Phillies, without Tom Gordon, just dont have that.

Edit: Chase Utley hit a walk off homer in the bottom of the 10th inning, Phils win 3-2. It also appears Tom Gordon will be ready to go from now on, as he was being warmed up in the bullpen for todays game. Which is great news for the Phils down the stretch.

The Phils can't win it without Gordon....they have a lot of games left against the Marlins who are red hot. Jeff Conine use to always kill the Phils when he was a Marlin. At least he is with the Phils now. Love the WC race. :tongue:

Ray Finkle
09-08-2006, 10:25 PM
There really should be no more debate as to who's the MVP of the NL. Ryan Howard come on down and collect your 2nd award in as many years. The guy is a monster.

phinphan896
09-08-2006, 10:29 PM
roider, i mean ryan, howard

Roman529
09-08-2006, 10:29 PM
I know Pujols is having a great year,,,,,,BUT I think Howard wrapped it up today.


Philadelphia (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/phi) 3, Florida (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/fla) 2

Philadelphia (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/phi) 3, Florida (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/fla) 2Preview (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/preview?gid=260908128) - Box Score (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=260908128) - Recap
By STEVEN WINE, AP Sports Writer
September 8, 2006 http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/photo?slug=ce5bd13c18c644baa9ff4cee8f3a293e.phillies_marlins_baseball_mds104&prov=ap)
AP - Sep 8, 9:20 pm EDT
More Photos (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/fla/photos)MIAMI (AP) -- Ryan Howard (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7437/) hit his 55th and 56th home runs, and Jamie Moyer (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/3932/) pitched eight solid innings to help the Philadelphia Phillies (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/phi/) beat the Florida Marlins (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/fla/) 3-2 Friday night.

RWhitney014
09-08-2006, 10:30 PM
He's got my vote.

Ray Finkle
09-08-2006, 10:36 PM
He's got my vote.

Mine 2. If I had votes he'd get mine for the NL and I'd vote for Jeter in the AL.

FinsNYanksFan13
09-08-2006, 10:51 PM
I'm down to Pujols and Howard with Howard in the lead by a solid margin!

King Felix
09-09-2006, 03:15 AM
roider, i mean ryan, howardi really dont think he is on roids/hgh......he just looks like a natural big guy

Alex44
09-09-2006, 03:17 AM
Im not sure I think he is on Steroids....He just looks naturally large, thats not to say he isnt though.

But as of now he has my vote to...not like I actually have one :lol:

Ray Finkle
09-09-2006, 11:54 AM
Im not sure I think he is on Steroids....He just looks naturally large, thats not to say he isnt though.

People are saying if you think he's on steroids you should look at his (twin?) brother who's just as big. It runs in the family genes I guess. Much like David Ortiz, whose father is just as big.

King Felix
09-09-2006, 10:11 PM
yeah i really dont think he is on steriods

but then again i didnt think pujols was..............wat ever happened to that list with 10 players from jason grimsley

Ray Finkle
09-09-2006, 11:30 PM
yeah i really dont think he is on steriods

but then again i didnt think pujols was..............wat ever happened to that list with 10 plays from jason grimsley

Extremely good question. :confused:

RWhitney014
09-10-2006, 01:11 AM
Ryan Howard on steroids? Right. The guy isn't big muscle-wise, he's just big person-wise. He's a monstrously-sized guy who happens to have quick wrists and a great ability to hit the ball about a country mile.

Eop05
09-11-2006, 12:53 PM
I wouldn't rule out anybody on steroids. Being a big Mets fan, if you told me David Wright was caught doing steroids, I wouldn't be that surprised.

Same goes for players like Arod, Pujols, etc. I just wouldn't rule out anybody doing steroids.

I mean think about it.......Hey Eop, you can play baseball and make 2 million dollars a year for 10 years, or you can play baseball while juicing and make 10 million dollars a year for 10 years.

Easy decision for me, I'd juice up (in moderation taking my health into consideration as much as possible).

Alex44
09-12-2006, 10:44 PM
I play sports and I will never take steroids or anything performance enhancing, if that costs me money someday so be it. Id rather know Im the best when clean than that I can beat everyone else juiced up


Pride > Money

AirMarino83
09-13-2006, 04:06 AM
id really be surprised if howard was on the juice.
even though im a mets fan, id give howard the nod for mvp.

Roman529
09-22-2006, 10:12 PM
Howard hits # 58 tonight.

Phils 5 Marlins 2

WarriorWelker83
09-23-2006, 11:48 AM
I wouldn't rule out anybody on steroids. Being a big Mets fan, if you told me David Wright was caught doing steroids, I wouldn't be that surprised.

Same goes for players like Arod, Pujols, etc. I just wouldn't rule out anybody doing steroids.

I mean think about it.......Hey Eop, you can play baseball and make 2 million dollars a year for 10 years, or you can play baseball while juicing and make 10 million dollars a year for 10 years.

Easy decision for me, I'd juice up (in moderation taking my health into consideration as much as possible).

But now that testing is in the Major Leagues it's much harder to believe a guy is on steroids, especially if he's lasted the whole season without being caught. Ryan Howard is a naturally big guy. He's doesn't really have the physique of a pro-wrestler or even Barry Bonds. I'd be very surprised and disappointed if Ryan Howard is on steroids.

FinsNYanksFan13
09-23-2006, 12:08 PM
I'm going to give Ryan Howard the benefit out the doubt that he's not on steroids. I mean there's nothing linking him to them except some one assumes because he's hitting homeruns, he's on them. That doesn't make sense to me!

Rocky Raccoon
09-23-2006, 12:22 PM
I'm going to give Ryan Howard the benefit out the doubt that he's not on steroids. I mean there's nothing linking him to them except some one assumes because he's hitting homeruns, he's on them. That doesn't make sense to me!

yeah I agree

it's a shame what steroids have done to such a great game...now no one can put up a 40 HR season without a question mark :shakeno:

WarriorWelker83
09-24-2006, 11:53 AM
Take in to account the ballpark Ryan Howard is playing in. It's not like this is Veteran Stadium. If Mike Schmidt played at CBP he might have 800 home runs. Not taking anything away from Ryan Howard, but they really do fly out of the park here in Philadelphia.

Heck even Jimmy Rollins hit 23 HR's. Which is like 10 more than he is career high.

MikeO
09-24-2006, 01:58 PM
There is nobody else in the NL to give it to.

Howard wins it going away

FinsNYanksFan13
09-25-2006, 01:06 AM
There is nobody else in the NL to give it to.

Howard wins it going away



Yep, Howard has clinched the award, especially with the Cardinals melt down in Houston this weekend!

Roman529
09-25-2006, 01:43 AM
The Phils wouldn't be close to sniffing the WC without Howard...should be a great final week. I hope to catch the Dodgers at Coors Field Tuesday night.

PeaTearGriffin
09-25-2006, 12:39 PM
Going to the Phils game tonight, last home game.

Roman529
09-25-2006, 02:06 PM
Going to the Phils game tonight, last home game.

Hope they beat the ASStros.

Blade
09-25-2006, 02:29 PM
Hope they beat the ASStros.

I think they will beat the astros tonight. they will knock the astros back into reality after sweepin the cardinals.

WarriorWelker83
09-28-2006, 06:05 PM
I think they will beat the astros tonight. they will knock the astros back into reality after sweepin the cardinals.

mission unacomplished, look out for the Stros' down the stretch.....and will the Dodgers ever lose!?

MikeO
09-29-2006, 12:32 AM
With the way Houston, Philly, and LA is playing..........I pray they all get in.

St.Louis doesn't deserve to be there!!!!

WarriorWelker83
10-01-2006, 10:10 AM
I'd like to see Houston in.....Philly is done.

MikeO
10-01-2006, 10:48 AM
I'd like to see Houston in.....Philly is done.

Philly is the only team done "OFFICIALLY".

In my opinion the Mets and St.Louis (who is probably in) are also DONE they just don't know it yet!

LAA vs SD could easily be the NLCS

NYPhinFan
10-01-2006, 11:53 AM
Philly is the only team done "OFFICIALLY".

In my opinion the Mets and St.Louis (who is probably in) are also DONE they just don't know it yet!

LAA vs SD could easily be the NLCS
The TOTAL lack of respect that the Mets get borders on the INSANELY ridiculous. The pitching has been the problem on this team ALL year round and anything can happen in a short series...yet. Pedro was FAR from dominant all year..and they still managed to play the best ball in the National League when it really mattered. Sometimes I really wonder what the true agendas are when calling a team "DONE". How about giving them props for the way they played all year and wait putting the dirt on thier graves at least until the playoffs begin:shakeno: :shakeno:

Ray Finkle
10-01-2006, 10:04 PM
The TOTAL lack of respect that the Mets get borders on the INSANELY ridiculous. The pitching has been the problem on this team ALL year round and anything can happen in a short series...yet. Pedro was FAR from dominant all year..and they still managed to play the best ball in the National League when it really mattered. Sometimes I really wonder what the true agendas are when calling a team "DONE". How about giving them props for the way they played all year and wait putting the dirt on thier graves at least until the playoffs begin:shakeno: :shakeno:

The Mets aren't getting respect for a few reasons:

1.) All at their pitching rotation in the playoffs (El Duque, Glavine, Maine, Steve Trachel) that is not a World Series rotation. Losing Pedro hurts the team big time. He was signed to be their ace. Now they have to count on a 60 year old pitcher, a vet lefty who might not have anything in the tank, an unproven semi-rookie and a 5th starter who's been bad.

2.) The NL this year was a joke. The Mets rolled over teams because they have a good line up. You can get away with that in the regular season but not the playoffs. Rarely can a team out hit other teams in the playoffs, it comes down to pitching so see example 1. If the Mets were in the AL they might not have made the playoffs. Not a knock on the Mets but the AL is the better league.

3.) The regular season and post season are much different. More pressure, facing better teams. More on the line. Facing better pitching.

Just my opinion but I think the Mets won't make it out of the first round especially since they're facing a tough Dodger team who has a better starting rotation in Maddux, Lowe and Penny.

The Mets are in bad shape. There's no way you can deny that. Not having Pedro in the regular season and winning is much different than not having him in the playoffs and winning.

MikeO
10-01-2006, 11:12 PM
How about giving them props for the way they played all year and wait putting the dirt on thier graves at least until the playoffs begin:shakeno: :shakeno:

I congratulated them on winnin the NL East. Go back and read through the thread.

But it doesn't change the fact that with that pitching staff they aren't winning the NL or the world series.

Eop05
10-02-2006, 02:47 PM
The Mets aren't getting respect for a few reasons:

1.) All at their pitching rotation in the playoffs (El Duque, Glavine, Maine, Steve Trachel) that is not a World Series rotation. Losing Pedro hurts the team big time. He was signed to be their ace. Now they have to count on a 60 year old pitcher, a vet lefty who might not have anything in the tank, an unproven semi-rookie and a 5th starter who's been bad.

2.) The NL this year was a joke. The Mets rolled over teams because they have a good line up. You can get away with that in the regular season but not the playoffs. Rarely can a team out hit other teams in the playoffs, it comes down to pitching so see example 1. If the Mets were in the AL they might not have made the playoffs. Not a knock on the Mets but the AL is the better league.

3.) The regular season and post season are much different. More pressure, facing better teams. More on the line. Facing better pitching.

Just my opinion but I think the Mets won't make it out of the first round especially since they're facing a tough Dodger team who has a better starting rotation in Maddux, Lowe and Penny.

The Mets are in bad shape. There's no way you can deny that. Not having Pedro in the regular season and winning is much different than not having him in the playoffs and winning.

So, Wang, Mussina, Johnson, Wright......

That's a world series rotation?! If, and that's a big IF, that's a better rotation than the Met's, it sure as hell ain't by much

RWhitney014
10-02-2006, 03:40 PM
So, Wang, Mussina, Johnson, Wright......

That's a world series rotation?! If, and that's a big IF, that's a better rotation than the Met's, it sure as hell ain't by much

He was not comparing the Mets to the Yankees. I'm seeing a lot of Mike's theory of second-city mentality in this whole Mets/Yankees deal.

You guys will all see my predictions when the admins get around to posting the commentary, so I'll hold off on that.

But Orlando Hernandez, Tom Glavine, Steve Trachsel, and John Maine/Mike Pelfrey does not strike fear in anyone's hearts. El Duque and Glavine are 5-6 inning pitchers, Trachsel is a 5th starter pretending to be a 3rd, and Maine and Pelfrey have never been here before. The Mets, as great as they are on paper, are not deep in the rotation, and the one injury to Pedro cripples them.

Eop05
10-02-2006, 03:47 PM
He was not comparing the Mets to the Yankees. I'm seeing a lot of Mike's theory of second-city mentality in this whole Mets/Yankees deal.

You guys will all see my predictions when the admins get around to posting the commentary, so I'll hold off on that.

But Orlando Hernandez, Tom Glavine, Steve Trachsel, and John Maine/Mike Pelfrey does not strike fear in anyone's hearts. El Duque and Glavine are 5-6 inning pitchers, Trachsel is a 5th starter pretending to be a 3rd, and Maine and Pelfrey have never been here before. The Mets, as great as they are on paper, are not deep in the rotation, and the one injury to Pedro cripples them.

The point I was trying to make was this:

Everyone is criticizing the Met's rotation. Yes, it's not dominant. Far from it.

But...neither is that of the Yankees (the clear-cut favorite to win the world series).

If you look at every teams rotation in the playoffs, Not ONE SINGLE TEAM has a rotation that another team should fear in this postseason. The Twins have Santana, and that's IT. He is probably the only feared pitcher in the postseason.

The bottom line is this: No team has a feared rotation in this postseason. The Met's rotation ranks somewhere amongst the middle of the playoff teams.

Roman529
10-02-2006, 03:51 PM
I still think Howard should get the MVP, even though my Phils always seems to come up short in the playoff race. I wonder how Clint Hurdle keep his job here in Colorado year after year when the Rocks always finish in last place...he must have compromising pictures of GM Dan O'Dowd. :lol:

RWhitney014
10-02-2006, 04:43 PM
The point I was trying to make was this:

Everyone is criticizing the Met's rotation. Yes, it's not dominant. Far from it.

But...neither is that of the Yankees (the clear-cut favorite to win the world series).

If you look at every teams rotation in the playoffs, Not ONE SINGLE TEAM has a rotation that another team should fear in this postseason. The Twins have Santana, and that's IT. He is probably the only feared pitcher in the postseason.

The bottom line is this: No team has a feared rotation in this postseason. The Met's rotation ranks somewhere amongst the middle of the playoff teams.

The Yankees are the clear-cut favorites? I strongly disagree. You said yourself, their rotation's not great, the pen isn't dominant. Minnesota has Santana, Radke, and Bonser, 3 very competent pitchers. The Dodgers have a good rotation. So do the Tigers and Padres. The Mets' rotation is only better than the Cardinals.

Ray Finkle
10-02-2006, 05:40 PM
The Yankees are the clear-cut favorites? I strongly disagree. You said yourself, their rotation's not great, the pen isn't dominant. Minnesota has Santana, Radke, and Bonser, 3 very competent pitchers. The Dodgers have a good rotation. So do the Tigers and Padres. The Mets' rotation is only better than the Cardinals.

Agreed. If I were to rank the rotations this would be my order:

Oakland
Dodgers
Yankees
Twins
Padres
Tigers
Mets
Cardinals

However I do think the Yankees are the heavy favorites due to their line up. Of course it all depends on Mr. Rivera once again, who won't get any 6 out saves this post season (at least in the 1st round) according to Torre.

Of course the list is schedule to change due to health. For example if Randy Johnson can't pitch and Cory Lidle has to take his spot the Yankees would drop big time.

Eop05
10-03-2006, 12:47 PM
The Yankees are the clear-cut favorites? I strongly disagree. You said yourself, their rotation's not great, the pen isn't dominant. Minnesota has Santana, Radke, and Bonser, 3 very competent pitchers. The Dodgers have a good rotation. So do the Tigers and Padres. The Mets' rotation is only better than the Cardinals.

You can strongly disagree, but Vegas and the rest of the world does not:


New York Yankees 81/50 http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/10/bet1-1.gif
Minnesota Twins 4/1 http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/10/bet1-1.gif
New York Mets 4/1 http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/10/bet1-1.gif
Oakland Athletics 7/1 http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/10/bet1-1.gif
Detroit Tigers 8/1 http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/10/bet1-1.gif
San Diego Padres 9/1 http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/10/bet1-1.gif
St Louis Cardinals 12/1 http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/10/bet1-1.gif
Los Angeles Dodgers 12/1If those odds don't say clear-cut favorite, then I'm not sure what a clear-cut favorite is

Eop05
10-03-2006, 03:54 PM
Now El Duque may have pulled his calf muscle.

NOWWW the mets are in trouble.

RWhitney014
10-03-2006, 05:39 PM
You can strongly disagree, but Vegas and the rest of the world does not:

New York Yankees 81/50 http://www.sportsinteraction.com/sportsbook/imgs/events/en/bet1.gif
Minnesota Twins 4/1 http://www.sportsinteraction.com/sportsbook/imgs/events/en/bet1.gif
New York Mets 4/1 http://www.sportsinteraction.com/sportsbook/imgs/events/en/bet1.gif
Oakland Athletics 7/1 http://www.sportsinteraction.com/sportsbook/imgs/events/en/bet1.gif
Detroit Tigers 8/1 http://www.sportsinteraction.com/sportsbook/imgs/events/en/bet1.gif
San Diego Padres 9/1 http://www.sportsinteraction.com/sportsbook/imgs/events/en/bet1.gif
St Louis Cardinals 12/1 http://www.sportsinteraction.com/sportsbook/imgs/events/en/bet1.gif
Los Angeles Dodgers 12/1If those odds don't say clear-cut favorite, then I'm not sure what a clear-cut favorite is

Vegas odds mean nothing to the play on the field. Vegas odds gave the Cubs a chance to win the World Series on September 1. Did they have a chance? Mathematically, yes, but there was obviously no way it would happen.

The Yankees will almost always have top odds because they're sexy. They're full of big names, they have the big history, and they have the most fans. But Vegas is trying to make money, not predict who will win. They set odds that give them the best chance of entering November having made a profit.

Eop05
10-03-2006, 09:13 PM
Vegas odds mean nothing to the play on the field. Vegas odds gave the Cubs a chance to win the World Series on September 1. Did they have a chance? Mathematically, yes, but there was obviously no way it would happen.

The Yankees will almost always have top odds because they're sexy. They're full of big names, they have the big history, and they have the most fans. But Vegas is trying to make money, not predict who will win. They set odds that give them the best chance of entering November having made a profit.

Yeah, because if the Yankees are 4/1 along with the other teams such as the Mets and the Twins, etc. Then Everyone bets them, making them the clear-cut favorite.

That's the point of a favorite.

If the Colts are a 3 point favorite this week against the Titans at the RCA dome, then everyone in their mother bets the Colts, which is why they are such a big favorite forcing Vegas to even it out and put them at an 18.5 point favorite.

The fact that a HIGH MAJORITY will bet the Yankees if all teams were at the same odds makes them a clear-favorite.

That's how Vegas makes the odds.

Another example. If there's a horse at a small race track and his odds are 25-1 with 20 minutes till post, and thoundans of people bet that horse, then his odds will go down significantly. Sometimes from 25-1 to 3-1.

Odds are where they are because that's how the betting trend works and that's who people think are gonna win. PEOPLE THINK THE YANKEES WILL WIN, therefore they bet them, therefore the Odds go down. that's why they are favorites