PDA

View Full Version : Josh Johnson For NL Cy Young Award Thread



phinphan896
08-28-2006, 11:17 PM
Just sign here show some love to JJ whose stats have been magnificent this year.

Mike13
08-28-2006, 11:28 PM
He's good but would they really give the award to a rookie? Has that been down before?

Nappy Roots
08-28-2006, 11:31 PM
Brandon Webb right now IMO.

Alex44
08-28-2006, 11:35 PM
Josh deserves it but we have to make the playoffs IMO for him to get any consideration

He is 11-4 since becoming a starter (12-6 total) and leads the NL in ERA.

djfresh47
08-28-2006, 11:38 PM
Chris Carpenter is 12-6 with a slightly higher ERA. Though he's started more games. If I had to give it to a guy right now eventhough his ERA is like 3.32 Carlos Zambrano is a stud. The Cubs need to fire the Lizard ASAP so he doesn't ruin his arm also.

Prime Time
08-28-2006, 11:48 PM
Yeah we really have to push for the playoffs If he is going to win it. Reds are losing right now by the way. :wink:

Alex44
08-28-2006, 11:48 PM
Chris Carpenter is 12-6 with a slightly higher ERA. Though he's started more games. If I had to give it to a guy right now eventhough his ERA is like 3.32 Carlos Zambrano is a stud. The Cubs need to fire the Lizard ASAP so he doesn't ruin his arm also.

You would give it to Zambrano? I agree his numbers are worth but Dontrelle should have gotten it year then.

RWhitney014
08-29-2006, 12:01 AM
Carpenter is 12-6 with a 2.96. Johnson is 12-6 with a 2.87. Webb is 13-5 with a 2.99. Don't think Zambrano will win because the Cubs are so awful. Johnson's really got to be in it. He had one bad relief outing in April that is actually inflating his ERA, yet it still leads the majors (not just the NL).

I don't think he will win it, and he may not deserve to win it. But he definitely is a competitor for it.

djfresh47
08-29-2006, 12:03 AM
You would give it to Zambrano? I agree his numbers are worth but Dontrelle should have gotten it year then.

I think you can be the best pitcher which I view the Cy Young as and be on an awful team. The MVP is a different story because I don't view it as an award for the best player.

RWhitney014
08-29-2006, 12:27 AM
Yeah, but there's been no attention or pressure on Zambrano. The guy happens to be a nutcase, too, and considering the press votes for this stuff, I think, I doubt they have a great relationship.

Alex44
08-29-2006, 12:30 AM
I think you can be the best pitcher which I view the Cy Young as and be on an awful team. The MVP is a different story because I don't view it as an award for the best player.

I agree to, in fact it should be more impressive on a losing team.

Im just saying thats not how the voters generally think

MikeO
08-29-2006, 09:55 AM
Right now this kid gets my vote. Webb and Zambrano are there with him, but if this kid wins 16+ games there is no dobut he will win it.

djfresh47
08-29-2006, 05:23 PM
Yeah, but there's been no attention or pressure on Zambrano. The guy happens to be a nutcase, too, and considering the press votes for this stuff, I think, I doubt they have a great relationship.

Just looking at stats if the season ended today I don't think Johnson finishes in the top 2. I think that would be Carpenter and Webb which is virtually a toss-up right now. If Oswalt can get on a roll maybe he joins the race also.

Alex44
08-29-2006, 05:49 PM
Just looking at stats if the season ended today I don't think Johnson finishes in the top 2. I think that would be Carpenter and Webb which is virtually a toss-up right now. If Oswalt can get on a roll maybe he joins the race also.


Im not disagreeing but Im going to break down the numbers on everyone

Johnson: 12 wins 2 behind NL lead: 2.87 ERA leads the majors: 6 losses:


Webb: 14 wins tied for first in NL: 3.02 ERA 4th in Majors 3rd in NL: 5 losses:


Penny: 14 wins tied for first in NL: 3.88 ERA: 7 losses:


Zambrano: 14 wins tied for first in NL: 3.31 ERA 10th in the majors 6th in the NL: 5 losses:


Oswalt: Only 10 wins: 3.23 ERA 6th in MLB 4th in NL: 3.88 ERA 27th in Majors: 8 losses:

Carpenter: 12 wins: 2.96 ERA: 6 losses

In conclusion

Zambrano isnt on a contendor so fairly or not he wont get it, Penny hasnt dominated, his ERA is the highest of any other pitcher in line for it, Oswalt wont get it, he has almost the exact same numbers as Jason Schmidt, except Schmidt only has 7 losses to Oswalts 8.

Its between Carpenter, Webb, and Johnson

Johnson hasnt been a starter the entire year, he started out in the bullpen, he was 1-2 as a reliever before becoming a starter he is 11-4, Webb started off like 8-0 or something and has tailed of since

IMO Webb might be out of it if the DBacks dont stay in the playoff chase

So that brings it down to JJ and CC which is basically a wash, except JJ has a lower ERA

RWhitney014
08-29-2006, 06:24 PM
Just looking at stats if the season ended today I don't think Johnson finishes in the top 2. I think that would be Carpenter and Webb which is virtually a toss-up right now. If Oswalt can get on a roll maybe he joins the race also.

If Liriano hadn't gotten hurt, continued the way he was pitching, and ended up leading the majors in ERA, would he have won the AL Cy?

djfresh47
08-29-2006, 07:18 PM
If Liriano hadn't gotten hurt, continued the way he was pitching, and ended up leading the majors in ERA, would he have won the AL Cy?

He had an ERA of 2.19 in the AL which is unreal. At the time I didn't think he deserved the Cy Young but if he continued his dominance then he'd have to get it. The closest to him in terms of the AL for ERA is Johan with 3.01 and I don't think he deserves it. Right now in the AL i'd say it is Roy Halladay who has a slightly higher ERA. I think Liriano's numbers were more dominant than Johnsons.

djfresh47
08-29-2006, 07:24 PM
Im not disagreeing but Im going to break down the numbers on everyone

Johnson: 12 wins 2 behind NL lead: 2.87 ERA leads the majors: 6 losses:


Webb: 14 wins tied for first in NL: 3.02 ERA 4th in Majors 3rd in NL: 5 losses:


Penny: 14 wins tied for first in NL: 3.88 ERA: 7 losses:


Zambrano: 14 wins tied for first in NL: 3.31 ERA 10th in the majors 6th in the NL: 5 losses:


Oswalt: Only 10 wins: 3.23 ERA 6th in MLB 4th in NL: 3.88 ERA 27th in Majors: 8 losses:

Carpenter: 12 wins: 2.96 ERA: 6 losses

In conclusion

Zambrano isnt on a contendor so fairly or not he wont get it, Penny hasnt dominated, his ERA is the highest of any other pitcher in line for it, Oswalt wont get it, he has almost the exact same numbers as Jason Schmidt, except Schmidt only has 7 losses to Oswalts 8.

Its between Carpenter, Webb, and Johnson

Johnson hasnt been a starter the entire year, he started out in the bullpen, he was 1-2 as a reliever before becoming a starter he is 11-4, Webb started off like 8-0 or something and has tailed of since

IMO Webb might be out of it if the DBacks dont stay in the playoff chase

So that brings it down to JJ and CC which is basically a wash, except JJ has a lower ERA

If you're bringing Brad Penny into the mix then you should bring John Smoltz into it also. Johnson has a higher WHIP than Carpenter and Carpenter has 2 complete games while Webb has 3.

RWhitney014
08-29-2006, 07:38 PM
He had an ERA of 2.19 in the AL which is unreal. At the time I didn't think he deserved the Cy Young but if he continued his dominance then he'd have to get it. The closest to him in terms of the AL for ERA is Johan with 3.01 and I don't think he deserves it. Right now in the AL i'd say it is Roy Halladay who has a slightly higher ERA. I think Liriano's numbers were more dominant than Johnsons.

So an AL rookie leading the majors in ERA is worthy of the Cy Young but an NL rookie leading the majors in ERA isn't even in the top two?

Dominance has nothing to do with the Cy. Willis was the most dominant pitcher in the NL last season, but Carpenter was a little better statistically on a better team, so he won it. Johnson's in this race for real as long as his wins keep going up and his ERA keeps going down.

And WHIP is totally irrelevant, just as EqA won't be a factor in the MVP races.

djfresh47
08-30-2006, 12:41 AM
So an AL rookie leading the majors in ERA is worthy of the Cy Young but an NL rookie leading the majors in ERA isn't even in the top two?

Dominance has nothing to do with the Cy. Willis was the most dominant pitcher in the NL last season, but Carpenter was a little better statistically on a better team, so he won it. Johnson's in this race for real as long as his wins keep going up and his ERA keeps going down.

And WHIP is totally irrelevant, just as EqA won't be a factor in the MVP races.

Them being rookies has absolutely nothing to do with it. Liriano's ERA was by far better than Halladay's and Santana's at this point. Johnson has the best ERA in the majors which is amazing for a rookie but then consider that Liriano's ERA was over a half run lower than Johnsons in the American league which I don't think can be argued is by far better than the NL. Liriano's numbers blew away Santana's and Halladay's and as you said if he continued that then he would make it a no-brainer to win the Cy Young. I think Clemens was the most dominant pitcher in the NL last season but everything is debateable. I never said Johnson was out of the race just that I think Webb and Carpenter are the guys that I think would finish 1-2 at this point. The AL I think is very easy to make out right now and it's between Halladay and Santana. The other guys I think who will get some votes are closers but I don't think they'll be close to them. The NL I think can still be won by a bunch of guys. This has to do with Liriano and while Ozzie sometimes says outlandish things he maybe right that Liriano is best served in the bullpen. Unless he's completely healthy regardless of my rooting interest for the WC race or even AL Central jeopardizing his long-term career would be a terrible move by the Twins.

RWhitney014
08-30-2006, 12:46 AM
Them being rookies has absolutely nothing to do with it. Liriano's ERA was by far better than Halladay's and Santana's at this point. Johnson has the best ERA in the majors which is amazing for a rookie but then consider that Liriano's ERA was over a half run lower than Johnsons in the American league which I don't think can be argued is by far better than the NL. Liriano's numbers blew away Santana's and Halladay's and as you said if he continued that then he would make it a no-brainer to win the Cy Young. I think Clemens was the most dominant pitcher in the NL last season but everything is debateable. I never said Johnson was out of the race just that I think Webb and Carpenter are the guys that I think would finish 1-2 at this point. The AL I think is very easy to make out right now and it's between Halladay and Santana. The other guys I think who will get some votes are closers but I don't think they'll be close to them. The NL I think can still be won by a bunch of guys. This has to do with Liriano and while Ozzie sometimes says outlandish things he maybe right that Liriano is best served in the bullpen. Unless he's completely healthy regardless of my rooting interest for the WC race or even AL Central jeopardizing his long-term career would be a terrible move by the Twins.

Still, if the AL ERA leader would have won it, the NL ERA leader, by that logic, should win it, no matter by how much he wins it.

djfresh47
08-30-2006, 12:58 AM
Still, if the AL ERA leader would have won it, the NL ERA leader, by that logic, should win it, no matter by how much he wins it.

Liriano's stats would've blown everybody elses in the AL away. Just guessing if he continued he would finish around 18 wins and been by far the best pitcher in the AL. If I thought the ERA winner should win it then I would've said Santana should win it right now but I believe Halladay should win it in the AL. Alex pointed out that alot will be determined the remainder of the season and I believe the AL MVP and NL MVP are wide open especially with Ortiz being out indefinately the NL Cy Young is open but I still say the AL Cy Young is between two guys. At the time he got hurt I didn't believe Liriano should get Cy Young but if he continued his play it was a no-brainer.

RWhitney014
08-30-2006, 01:08 AM
Liriano's stats would've blown everybody elses in the AL away. Just guessing if he continued he would finish around 18 wins and been by far the best pitcher in the AL. If I thought the ERA winner should win it then I would've said Santana should win it right now but I believe Halladay should win it in the AL. Alex pointed out that alot will be determined the remainder of the season and I believe the AL MVP and NL MVP are wide open especially with Ortiz being out indefinately the NL Cy Young is open but I still say the AL Cy Young is between two guys. At the time he got hurt I didn't believe Liriano should get Cy Young but if he continued his play it was a no-brainer.

Well, all I can say is Josh Johnson beat Roy Halladay this year, as well as John Smoltz, Pedro Martinez, Ben Sheets, Livan Hernandez, while equalling Jason Schmidt twice and losing only because Schmidt was that good.

He hasn't feasted on other teams' 4th starters. He's gotten to tangle with the league's aces and he's still got these numbers. That, to me, is the most impressive part of Josh Johnson.

djfresh47
08-30-2006, 01:28 AM
Well, all I can say is Josh Johnson beat Roy Halladay this year, as well as John Smoltz, Pedro Martinez, Ben Sheets, Livan Hernandez, while equalling Jason Schmidt twice and losing only because Schmidt was that good.

He hasn't feasted on other teams' 4th starters. He's gotten to tangle with the league's aces and he's still got these numbers. That, to me, is the most impressive part of Josh Johnson.

This is irrelevant to Johnson being considered for Cy Young but an Ace in the NL is probably a 3 or 4 in the AL. I think in the next year or two even the best pitchers in the AL will have an ERA around 4 or even higher.

miamikid92
08-30-2006, 02:42 PM
This is irrelevant to Johnson being considered for Cy Young but an Ace in the NL is probably a 3 or 4 in the AL. I think in the next year or two even the best pitchers in the AL will have an ERA around 4 or even higher.how come?

RWhitney014
08-30-2006, 02:46 PM
how come?

The DH. That particular point is valid in some circumstances. Look at Bronson Arroyo, for instance. #3 in the Red Sox rotation, 1 in the Reds. But he's also right in that it has nothing to do with the Cy.

phinphan896
08-30-2006, 03:25 PM
JJ for cy young

UCFinfan86
08-30-2006, 04:36 PM
This is irrelevant to Johnson being considered for Cy Young but an Ace in the NL is probably a 3 or 4 in the AL. I think in the next year or two even the best pitchers in the AL will have an ERA around 4 or even higher.

Um sorry but DH has been around for a while, y all of a sudden would the DH make such a dramatic change?

Boik14
08-30-2006, 05:30 PM
I agree johnson has to be in the mix but because hes a rookie and hes not a big name he wont win or finish top 2.

Its a tough year for a Cy Young vote because normally theres a few names from top teams competing with a couple guys from average or bad teams but this year the NL's only good team has had their 2 best pitchers be streaky (Glavine) and injured (Pedro).

The normal contenders: Peavy, willis, Petitte, Oswalt have pitched beneath their own standards. And Clemens is on a bad team. Theyre out.

That basically leaves Carpenter, C-Zam, Smoltz, Webb, Johnson. Smoltz is out cause his team is bad this year and his numbers dont seperate him from everyone else.

Zambrano has dominant K numbers which voters love but his team stinks. 4th

Johnson starting out as a #4 guy and a bullpen guy probably hurt him. hes also not a name which hurts him even more. 3rd

Carpenters been hurt and a bit up and down. He is last years winner and plays for a team likely to make the playoffs. 2nd

Webb will win the award because he was by far the best pitcher and most dominant in the first half while being very good the 2nd half. His stats match up with the best, and his peripherals are solid. Despite playing on a mediocore team he was the reason they stayed in the race. the same can be said of johnson but johnson simply has no fan base standing behind him because no one outside of fans of nl east teams really heard of johnson.

djfresh47
08-30-2006, 06:46 PM
Um sorry but DH has been around for a while, y all of a sudden would the DH make such a dramatic change?

I'm not putting it just on the DH rule but every mistake seems to turn into a runs. I'd actually like to see some stadiums push back the fences because it's getting ridiculous. Look at the ERA's this season their are 14 guys in the AL with an ERA under 4.00 compared to 22 last season finishing with an ERA below 4. Also although the players have probably found a way to get all geeked up I believe the testing for greenies may have something to do with many starters struggling.