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jnobes7
09-06-2006, 11:17 AM
Most overrated player in the nfl?
My vote, Richard Seymour. He is not what everyone makes him out to be and watch…
Richard Seymour
Games 71
Tackles 244
PD 19
Sacks 25.5
FF 3
INT 1
Derrick Burgess
Games 45
Tackles 111
PD 4
Sacks 24.5
FF 3
INT 0
Julius Peppers
Games 60
Tackles 197
PD 25
Sacks 40.5
FF 14
INT 3
Adewale Ogunleye
Games 66
Tackles 189
PD 15
Sacks 40
FF 7
INT 1
Terrell Suggs
Games 48
Tackles 156
PD 5
Sacks 30.5
FF 11
INT 3


Those are just some examples to put things in perspective. Seymour is not a top 5 lineman, let alone top 10, I know other defensive linemen I would prefer over Richard including many like Jason Taylor, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyori, Simeon Rice, Julius Peppers, Awewale Ogunleye, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs, Jonathan Abraham, and I might be forgetting one or two.
Your thoughts and players that are overrated.
Sorry guys, I just hate the patriots. :dolphins:

finsnchips
09-06-2006, 11:22 AM
you've listed a shed load of 4-3 DEs and then compared them to Seymour, a 3-4 DE.

FinfanInBuffalo
09-06-2006, 11:22 AM
Michael Vick hands down. Absolute hype machine.

Honorable mention to Jake Plummer.

Sethdaddy8
09-06-2006, 11:22 AM
Joey Porter. Moderately effective blitzing linebacker who showed up for 4 games of one season. Underrated mouth, overrated player.

PhinsRock
09-06-2006, 11:24 AM
Have to agree with Michael Vick, runs great but can't pass out of the pocket all that well IMHO.

se7ensaw
09-06-2006, 11:27 AM
To make your statement based on sacks is just ridiculous, there is alot more that goes into playing D-line than just sacks. Seymour is a monster on the line of scrimmage, I guarantee you when we play the Pats this year, he will not be getting single blocked at all. This is part of what they were saying about Mario Williams, unless he gets 13 sacks this year, everyone will say he is a bust. And he might dominate and control the line of scrimmage, might get doubled so other guys get sacks. You can't really put Osi on there, because he plays opposite Strahan. And last year was the 1st year Ogunleye did anything without J Taylor. Ask J Peppers about how much easier his life is when he has guys like Mike Rucker, or Kris Jenkins (when healthy) and guys like that on the line. The great teams are all dominant upfront. The fact that you failed to mention Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers, that tells me you only look at one thing, SACKS. And that can be an overrated stat. Anyone who would take Derrick Burgess over Hampton, Rogers, or Seymour, I can't help but be thankful that person is not in charge of my football team. I hate when Dolphins fans hate a division rival's player based solely on they play on another team. It is the same thing as those who hate Tom Brady. Just ridiculous. Seymour is one of the Top 5 lineman in the league, hands down. He is the ideal D-lineman in today's NFL, a guy who can play inside or outside, and still cause chaos. And it doesn't make a difference who he plays for.

Desides
09-06-2006, 11:27 AM
Thirding Michael Vick.

He's spent the past few years relying on his legs, and he's increasingly becoming less able to get by on that. Meanwhile, all that running has stunted his growth as a passer.

jnobes7
09-06-2006, 11:28 AM
suggs is in a 4-3? no hes not three years, 2 less then seymour and already has more sacks, the fact is seymour is just a fat linemen, should convert to a DT permenantly, and nothing special, but yes vick is overrated, im sick of him getting all these roughing the QB, once u pass the line of scrimmage you are a football player.

Kdawg954
09-06-2006, 11:28 AM
Michael Vick hands down. Absolute hype machine.


For good reason tho, he is the undisputed most athletic, versatile and fastest guy ever to play the QB position in the NFL . . . and he has a cannon to go along with all that. Maybe he hasn't been as successful as the hype would lead u to believe, but I don't think that makes him overrated . . . Atlanta has mediocore WR's and with a medicore RB in Dunn, and everybody just keeps flowing in the offense. Yea Manning is great . . . but he had Harrison, Wayne and James for years . . . man u put Vick back there as an additional threat on the ground . . . I think we would have seen the Colts in the SuperBowl.

jnobes7
09-06-2006, 11:30 AM
not sacks, all seymour does is tackle, im right here baby dont talk smack like that, seymour isn't a turnover machine, which is what you want on your defense. you want turnovers! and seymour doesn't do much of that now does he? sure he gets double teamed, so didn't jason taylor for the last 10 years and dont see his numbers suffering from it?

Kdawg954
09-06-2006, 11:30 AM
suggs is in a 4-3? no hes not three years, 2 less then seymour and already has more sacks, the fact is seymour is just a fat linemen, should convert to a DT permenantly, and nothing special, but yes vick is overrated, im sick of him getting all these roughing the QB, once u pass the line of scrimmage you are a football player.

Wow they call roughing the QB after he crosses the line of scrimmage? Didn't know that . . . I'm pretty sure once a QB is over the line he is like any other player . . . except when he slides which means he is givin himself up on the play . . .and if u hit a guy late then . . . they will call a personal foul.

jnobes7
09-06-2006, 11:32 AM
did you not see the falcons dolphins game when ATL came here and that last drive where vick was tip toeing down the sideline and one of our CB's came across and threw him outa bounce, they called roughing the passer?

se7ensaw
09-06-2006, 11:35 AM
Mike Vick doesn't claim to be anything but what you guys call him. He is still the single most game-planned against player in the league. He is still a nightmare for anybody that plays him. He didn't get the hype machine going, everyone else did that. There are a lot of guys I think are more overrated than him. Keyshawn Johnson comes to mind, first and foremost. Alot of guys are a biproduct of their system. And if they played elsewhere, would find their success drop instantly. Mike Vick's problem is he has always been able to get by just on the physical aspect alone. I remember at Virginia Tech, they always bootlegged, so he would only have to take care of half the field. In the NFL it is more the mental, ie Tom Brady, than the physical. If Mike Vick ever even gets decent on the mental, he could be a force. Otherwise he will do the same things every year until he retires.

Jimi
09-06-2006, 11:35 AM
did you not see the falcons dolphins game when ATL came here and that last drive where vick was tip toeing down the sideline and one of our CB's came across and threw him outa bounce, they called roughing the passer?

well it wasnt actually roughing the passer, just late hit. It was a rediculous kill one way or the other.

Kdawg954
09-06-2006, 11:35 AM
did you not see the falcons dolphins game when ATL came here and that last drive where vick was tip toeing down the sideline and one of our CB's came across and threw him outa bounce, they called roughing the passer?

Can't remember the exact call, but I remember the play . . . it was iffy, but I believe it was a personal foul . . . late hit out of bounds as Vick was tip toeing out of bounds. I disagreed with the call also, because with a guy of his athleticism . . u don't know if he is gonna juke back and cut up field . . hey but its a QB and he was going out of bounds and we made an agressive tackle to bring him down while it looked like he was going out of bounds . . . was to be expected.

Motion
09-06-2006, 11:38 AM
Ben Roethlisberger

se7ensaw
09-06-2006, 11:40 AM
It is tough to compare Jason Taylor and Richard Seymour. Jason Taylor played a long time in a defense that kept the CB's on an island, and the DE's just pinned their ears back and brought the heat. Seymour has played in a zone blitz defense, where the lineman are to get a pass rush without any help. Jason Taylor has NEVER played inside and been responsible for blowing up the backfield. I am in NO WAY saying I am not thankful for Jason Taylor. But you can not compare the 2 of them because they don't have the same responsibilities to their teams. You can't compare Barry Sanders and Jerome Bettis. It would be the same thing, 2 players who have 2 entirely different roles for their teams. Seymour is not asked to get sacks. He has a lot more responsibility. That is all I am saying.

se7ensaw
09-06-2006, 11:49 AM
It is funny, you guys have named Ben Roethlisberger, and Richard Seymour, 2 of the most overrated players in the NFL. I am pretty sure those guys played on teams who have won 4 of the last 5 Super Bowls. Hard pressed to say those guys are overrated. You guys want fantasy football superstars, not guys who do whatever it takes to win. You don't think for one second that Seymour wouldn't like to have 12 sacks. Damn right he would. But he is more about TEAM than his own personal statistics. You don't think Big Ben wouldn't like to have 50 TD passes by now. If you saw him at all at Miami of Ohio, you would know he was a great QB in college and a first round pick in the NFL draft. He just happened to get drafted by a team who will run first no matter what, and if they have a lead, are NOT GOING to throw the ball. I bet you anything you want to bet, you ask Jason Taylor if he would switch places with Richard Seymour and have the rings, he would do it. Ask Peyton Manning if he would give up all the statistics, for one ring, as Big Ben has, and he would say yes. I hope you guys have fun in your fantasy football leagues, because that seems to be all you know, is statistics. Not what really counts, Super Bowl rings.

Motion
09-06-2006, 11:51 AM
It is funny, you guys have named Ben Roethlisberger, and Richard Seymour, 2 of the most overrated players in the NFL. I am pretty sure those guys played on teams who have won 4 of the last 5 Super Bowls. Hard pressed to say those guys are overrated. You guys want fantasy football superstars, not guys who do whatever it takes to win. You don't think for one second that Seymour wouldn't like to have 12 sacks. Damn right he would. But he is more about TEAM than his own personal statistics. You don't think Big Ben wouldn't like to have 50 TD passes by now. If you saw him at all at Miami of Ohio, you would know he was a great QB in college and a first round pick in the NFL draft. He just happened to get drafted by a team who will run first no matter what, and if they have a lead, are NOT GOING to throw the ball. I bet you anything you want to bet, you ask Jason Taylor if he would switch places with Richard Seymour and have the rings, he would do it. Ask Peyton Manning if he would give up all the statistics, for one ring, as Big Ben has, and he would say yes. I hope you guys have fun in your fantasy football leagues, because that seems to be all you know, is statistics. Not what really counts, Super Bowl rings.

Opinions are like.......................well you know.

se7ensaw
09-06-2006, 11:57 AM
All I ask is to make an educated opinion, not one hating on guys who play for division rivals, or guys with Super Bowl rings. It amazes me to still hear people who hate on Tiger Woods, or LeBron James, or Tom Brady. Just because they are the best. Never bash anyone, never complain, just go out and do the job. Big Ben has something Dan Marino and Daunte Culpepper do not, and I think that is what alot of the players in the NFL play for, the elusive Super Bowl ring.

Eop05
09-06-2006, 11:57 AM
It is funny, you guys have named Ben Roethlisberger, and Richard Seymour, 2 of the most overrated players in the NFL. I am pretty sure those guys played on teams who have won 4 of the last 5 Super Bowls. Hard pressed to say those guys are overrated. You guys want fantasy football superstars, not guys who do whatever it takes to win. You don't think for one second that Seymour wouldn't like to have 12 sacks. Damn right he would. But he is more about TEAM than his own personal statistics. You don't think Big Ben wouldn't like to have 50 TD passes by now. If you saw him at all at Miami of Ohio, you would know he was a great QB in college and a first round pick in the NFL draft. He just happened to get drafted by a team who will run first no matter what, and if they have a lead, are NOT GOING to throw the ball. I bet you anything you want to bet, you ask Jason Taylor if he would switch places with Richard Seymour and have the rings, he would do it. Ask Peyton Manning if he would give up all the statistics, for one ring, as Big Ben has, and he would say yes. I hope you guys have fun in your fantasy football leagues, because that seems to be all you know, is statistics. Not what really counts, Super Bowl rings.
I highly doubt Peyton Manning would give up his stats for 1 superbowl ring. His stats are what make him the highest paid player in the NFL. His stats are what make him one of the most popular players in the NFL. I'm CERTAIN he would NOT trade all that away to become Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson

And by the way...Peyton Manning's career is barely half way over

Kdawg954
09-06-2006, 12:08 PM
I highly doubt Peyton Manning would give up his stats for 1 superbowl ring. His stats are what make him the highest paid player in the NFL. His stats are what make him one of the most popular players in the NFL. I'm CERTAIN he would NOT trade all that away to become Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson

And by the way...Peyton Manning's career is barely half way over

Thats not fair to put Peyton so low . . . lets say Brady only had one ring . . . u don't think Peyton would give up his amazing stats and trade them for Brady's good stats and his ring . . . I think he would. Stats make u a hall of famer . . . but all the stats in the world doesn't not complete u as a NFL player if u don't get that ring. No matter how many records u break . . . if u don't get that ring ure NFL career will have never seemed complete . . . just my opinion.

I mean Peyton still has many games left hopefully, so he has time . . . but he is starting to think about it.

3rd and long
09-06-2006, 12:13 PM
Michael Vick hands down. Absolute hype machine.

Honorable mention to Jake Plummer.

A-men, it even has carryover to this site and his scrubby little brother.

Motion
09-06-2006, 12:19 PM
All I ask is to make an educated opinion, not one hating on guys who play for division rivals, or guys with Super Bowl rings. It amazes me to still hear people who hate on Tiger Woods, or LeBron James, or Tom Brady. Just because they are the best. Never bash anyone, never complain, just go out and do the job. Big Ben has something Dan Marino and Daunte Culpepper do not, and I think that is what alot of the players in the NFL play for, the elusive Super Bowl ring.
And how would you know the reasoning behind what other people think? Who are you to judge their reasoning? This is an opinion thread, there are no right or wrong answers.

unifiedtheory
09-06-2006, 12:19 PM
Most overrated player in the nfl?
My vote, Richard Seymour. He is not what everyone makes him out to be and watch…
Richard Seymour
Games 71
Tackles 244
PD 19
Sacks 25.5
FF 3
INT 1
Derrick Burgess
Games 45
Tackles 111
PD 4
Sacks 24.5
FF 3
INT 0
Julius Peppers
Games 60
Tackles 197
PD 25
Sacks 40.5
FF 14
INT 3
Adewale Ogunleye
Games 66
Tackles 189
PD 15
Sacks 40
FF 7
INT 1
Terrell Suggs
Games 48
Tackles 156
PD 5
Sacks 30.5
FF 11
INT 3


Those are just some examples to put things in perspective. Seymour is not a top 5 lineman, let alone top 10, I know other defensive linemen I would prefer over Richard including many like Jason Taylor, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyori, Simeon Rice, Julius Peppers, Awewale Ogunleye, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs, Jonathan Abraham, and I might be forgetting one or two.
Your thoughts and players that are overrated.
Sorry guys, I just hate the patriots. :dolphins:

Richard Seymour is overrated yet you mentioned Simeon Rice, John Abraham and Dwight Freeney?

Get OVER the stats. Seymour plays end in a 3-4 and he is the BEST 3-4 end in football. Of the guys you listed the only one that I'd rank higher then Seymour are J.T. and Strahan. I like my defensive ends to be DEFENSIVE ENDS, not pass rushers. Peppers is almost a complete player and so is Ogunleye.

Pass rushing is an element, not the end all be all of playing defensive end.

On topic:

Offense: Ron Mexico, any Bronco running back.

Defense: Ray Lewis and Dwight Freeney

unifiedtheory
09-06-2006, 12:21 PM
To make your statement based on sacks is just ridiculous, there is alot more that goes into playing D-line than just sacks. Seymour is a monster on the line of scrimmage, I guarantee you when we play the Pats this year, he will not be getting single blocked at all. This is part of what they were saying about Mario Williams, unless he gets 13 sacks this year, everyone will say he is a bust. And he might dominate and control the line of scrimmage, might get doubled so other guys get sacks. You can't really put Osi on there, because he plays opposite Strahan. And last year was the 1st year Ogunleye did anything without J Taylor. Ask J Peppers about how much easier his life is when he has guys like Mike Rucker, or Kris Jenkins (when healthy) and guys like that on the line. The great teams are all dominant upfront. The fact that you failed to mention Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers, that tells me you only look at one thing, SACKS. And that can be an overrated stat. Anyone who would take Derrick Burgess over Hampton, Rogers, or Seymour, I can't help but be thankful that person is not in charge of my football team. I hate when Dolphins fans hate a division rival's player based solely on they play on another team. It is the same thing as those who hate Tom Brady. Just ridiculous. Seymour is one of the Top 5 lineman in the league, hands down. He is the ideal D-lineman in today's NFL, a guy who can play inside or outside, and still cause chaos. And it doesn't make a difference who he plays for.

THANK YOU!

Eop05
09-06-2006, 12:25 PM
Thats not fair to put Peyton so low . . . lets say Brady only had one ring . . . u don't think Peyton would give up his amazing stats and trade them for Brady's good stats and his ring . . . I think he would. Stats make u a hall of famer . . . but all the stats in the world doesn't not complete u as a NFL player if u don't get that ring. No matter how many records u break . . . if u don't get that ring ure NFL career will have never seemed complete . . . just my opinion.

I mean Peyton still has many games left hopefully, so he has time . . . but he is starting to think about it.

If what you say was the case, Peyton Manning's contract would be 4-5 million dollars less per year possibly.

Remember, his stats make him the highest paid player EVER. Pretty hard to give up for anything. Peyton Manning gets paid significantly more than Brady, and that's the Brady that has 3 superbowls. Imagine how much more significant the difference in pay would be if Brady had only that 1 superbowl

I agree, the superbowl is the holy grail of football, but it's not everything. To feel sorry for someone because they don't have a superbowl ring is silly. While someone's fightin to pay their mortgage and feeling sorry for Peyton, he's playin golf and drivin his Ferrari with a smile ear to ear, and the last thing on his mind is the superbowl at that point.

Mike13
09-06-2006, 01:05 PM
Michael Vick is the most overrated player in the NFL. He is very athletic, but so is Randy Moss.

ch19079
09-06-2006, 01:08 PM
Brady.... thats right, i said it. Tom ****ing Brady.

hes been called the greatest qb ever... EVER... just think about that.

also:
-Bruschi (aka "god" aka "we are not worth") is a very good player but they made up entire stat categories for this guy.
-Big Ben is just another example of a ok qb on a great team getting way to much credit.
-V. Davis (TE), highest paid TE IN THE GAME and he hasnt even played a single regualr season game.
-Jake Plummer is a bum and everyone should know that, so i dont think of him as overrated.

ch19079
09-06-2006, 01:10 PM
Michael Vick is the most overrated player in the NFL. He is very athletic, but so is Randy Moss.

Hes also the only reason that team wins games. he is a very poor passer, but just by walking on the field he dramatically increases his teams chances to win the game.

Entire defensive scemes have been made just to try and stop this guy and they keep failing.

In_Flames
09-06-2006, 01:15 PM
Simply put, when I think of the word overrated, one name automatically pops into mind...and that name is of course Michael Vick.

FinsFanatic54
09-08-2006, 10:03 PM
Michael Vick no question.

Majpain
09-08-2006, 10:18 PM
Mike Vick

Perfect23
09-08-2006, 10:20 PM
Chad Johnson

Majpain
09-08-2006, 10:29 PM
Chad Johnson

???:lol:

Phinlivin'in703
09-08-2006, 10:42 PM
Most overrated player in the nfl?
My vote, Richard Seymour. He is not what everyone makes him out to be and watch…
Richard Seymour
Games 71
Tackles 244
PD 19
Sacks 25.5
FF 3
INT 1
Derrick Burgess
Games 45
Tackles 111
PD 4
Sacks 24.5
FF 3
INT 0
Julius Peppers
Games 60
Tackles 197
PD 25
Sacks 40.5
FF 14
INT 3
Adewale Ogunleye
Games 66
Tackles 189
PD 15
Sacks 40
FF 7
INT 1
Terrell Suggs
Games 48
Tackles 156
PD 5
Sacks 30.5
FF 11
INT 3


Those are just some examples to put things in perspective. Seymour is not a top 5 lineman, let alone top 10, I know other defensive linemen I would prefer over Richard including many like Jason Taylor, Michael Strahan, Osi Umenyori, Simeon Rice, Julius Peppers, Awewale Ogunleye, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs, Jonathan Abraham, and I might be forgetting one or two.
Your thoughts and players that are overrated.
Sorry guys, I just hate the patriots. :dolphins:


You've got to be kiddin' me

Mike13
09-08-2006, 11:02 PM
Hes also the only reason that team wins games. he is a very poor passer, but just by walking on the field he dramatically increases his teams chances to win the game.

Entire defensive scemes have been made just to try and stop this guy and they keep failing.

Now what does that say about his team?

painnotpleasure
09-09-2006, 05:48 PM
Michael Vick definitely and I would say Charles Woodson but he seems to be forgotten these days in Green Bay.

CDNPHIN
09-10-2006, 08:20 AM
"Vick" is a direct result of "THE NIKE HYPE MACHINE" as for Ben, please refer to Trent Dilfer(he won the superbowl with defence and a running game too).
As for my vote "Tedy the Patriot" poster boy of the media hype....And soon to be added to this list "Vince Young".

ih8brady
09-10-2006, 02:34 PM
ron mexico,