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FinsNYanksFan13
09-17-2006, 11:58 AM
4th man ever in baseball history 40/40 and only the 2nd to do it clean!


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260916120

RWhitney014
09-17-2006, 12:35 PM
He's good. Really good.

And he'll be very wealthy very soon.

Nappy Roots
09-17-2006, 12:45 PM
congrats to him. hes a great player. its even that much more impressive when you think about, him being in that big ball park, in that lineup, and then on top of that learning a whole new position. unbelieveable.

DonShula84
09-17-2006, 02:02 PM
He'll look good in an Angel uni next year :)

djfresh47
09-17-2006, 10:23 PM
4th man ever in baseball history 40/40 and only the 2nd to do it clean!


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260916120

Barry Bonds alleged steroid use I think started after the season of McGwire and Sosa mashing with balloon heads. So their is no proof he was on 'roids at that time, just like nobody can be certain any player is not on performance enhancers right now.

Quelonio
09-17-2006, 10:31 PM
Barry Bonds alleged steroid use I think started after the season of McGwire and Sosa mashing with balloon heads. So their is no proof he was on 'roids at that time, just like nobody can be certain any player is not on performance enhancers right now.

Ok, he is the second most likely to do it clean???

djfresh47
09-17-2006, 10:45 PM
Ok, he is the second most likely to do it clean???

Bonds alleged steroid use and I believe it is documented in Game of Shadows started in I think '99. So if you're implying A-Rod did it I don't believe so. It's hard to know who is and who isn't and if you look at some players stats and these include the "good guys" in the game it brings up question marks.

RWhitney014
09-17-2006, 11:51 PM
He'll look good in an Angel uni next year :)

He'll have 30 teams interested in him. Who knows what the price will be if Boston or New York takes a serious look.

Don't know for sure if the Angels will go after him, but a lineup with Vlad, Soriano, Anderson, Figgins if he's still around, Morales, Kendrick, Cabrera, and so on would be nightmarish.

Other teams...definitely look for Houston to throw their hat in the ring. They have money, especially after Clemens and Pettitte likely vacate the payroll, and the FO will be hungry after missing out on the playoffs this year. They could put him in left and finally trade Jason Lane somewhere or put him at second if they choose not to bring Biggio back, which seems heretical but is very much within the realm of possibility. Soriano + Crawford boxes = improved defense in left and, more importantly, 60 homers as easy as it can be to hit 60. Put him and Taveras 1-2 (Taveras 1, probably), follow them with Berkman and Ensberg and Huff and Biggio if he's there, and you've got a very potent lineup in a division with parks that reward potent lineups.

Baltimore is looking for another splash, and signing a fellow Dominican star could go a long way to get Miguel Tejada to stop browsing for one-way ticket out of the Chesapeake. Even though it would be a dumb move because all their money should be spent on a pitcher like Barry Zito to go with Bedard and the rest of the young arms, it's time again for Angelos to buy time in the Beltway with a big signing, and who better than a guy that O's fans have been forced to watch 30 miles south? Put him with Tejada, Mora, Markakis, Gibbons, and Hernandez, and the fragile staffs in the AL East will take notice.

The Giants, Dodgers, Mariners, White Sox, Phillies, and Cubs should all end up in the discussion somewhere. And my favorite dark horse team for all the big-name signings is, of course, the Marlins. They are infatuated with Soriano and were this close to acquiring him at the trade deadline. If they get a stadium deal before free agency starts, Loria will have to put his money where his mouth is and sign somebody, and there's no doubt of a few things: he wants to win, he will spend (Delgado, Lo Duca, Urbina, etc.), he loves all things Yankee, and he needs to drum up fan support in any way possible. Soriano, of course, would have to be willing to play center field, which, if he's smart, he would go there. He didn't want to play left because he feared it would hurt his free agency value as compared to second base, which is a legitimate concern, but he's going to get paid a lot, and an offensive force like he is in center is just as good as second. Center field is still not a premium offensive position with a few exceptions like Jones, Wells, and Beltran. Soriano would instantly make Florida's lineup, with the expected improvements for next year, among the best in the National League. Just for fun's sake, let's spell it out with reasonable predictions, assuming health.

1) Soriano, .290-45-100, 40 steals
2) Hanley, .280-20-60, 50 steals
3) Uggla, .290-30-100, 10 steals
4) Cabrera, .340-35-130
5) Jacobs, .275-25-80
6) Willingham, .290-25-80
7) Hermida, ?, but should be .280-20-70, 10 steals
8) Olivo, .265-15-55
9) P, and don't laugh, because the Marlins' pitchers were among the best this year, despite Willis hitting .100. Willis, Nolasco, Olsen, Johnson, and Sanchez are all good hitting pitchers who can all lay down a bunt, and if Jason Vargas somehow recovers from a beastly year and finds himself in the rotation, he'd hit .300.

Of course, that would be ideal. Someone's going to slip or get hurt, and it's not likely Soriano signs here. But that lineup as constructed has serious power, good speed up and down, and great averages/OBPs. This is all entirely dependent on a stadium deal being reached and a miracle like the one with Delgado and even Leiter that prevented the bargaining from going too high. Remember, the only major salary increases are going to Cabrera and Willis, maybe Olivo, and those three will probably make $17 million combined. Add a year of Soriano at an introductory $10 million, still only $390K for every other starter, the same for the other four pitchers, a couple of bench guys, say three of them, and another three relievers at that price, and you're still just at $33 million for 20 players. Fill out the rest of the pen and bench with reasonably good players (the pen needs a major overhaul, but spending more than $1.5 million on a middle reliever is not Florida's style and generally not smart), and even with Soriano you're talking very easily a $40 million payroll. Not big, but still much bigger than this year's and still plenty flexible, and obviously a big, big splash for the fans.

Am I crazy? Probably? But I did predict in October 2004 that Delgado would be a Marlin in 2005, and I was right on that one. I would be verifiably shocked if Soriano ended up in teal, but I wouldn't put it past Beinfest and Co. They seem to know how to pull these things off.

Ray Finkle
09-17-2006, 11:56 PM
He'll have 30 teams interested in him. Who knows what the price will be if Boston or New York takes a serious look.

Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather see my team spend the 14 to 15 million on pitching (both starting and relief work).

And there's no room for Soriano in NY, at least not the Yankees anyway unless he wants to play in Triple A until someone gets hurt and then he'll get called up.

My guess is he'll be a Met.

RWhitney014
09-17-2006, 11:59 PM
Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather see my team spend the 14 to 15 million on pitching (both starting and relief work).

And there's no room for Soriano in NY, at least not the Yankees anyway unless he wants to play in Triple A until someone gets hurt and then he'll get called up.

My guess is he'll be a Met.

I write that whole damn thing and you only quote the first two lines? You...you...(censored)

Ray Finkle
09-18-2006, 12:01 AM
I write that whole damn thing and you only quote the first two lines? You...you...(censored)

:eek:

I'm sorry I'm sorry. I agreed with everything else you wrote. Soriano, is a money whore in my opinion, so whoever shows him the most cash he'll be there. Of course if he went to FL he'd probably make the same amount as the combined 24 other guys in the clubhouse.

MikeO
09-18-2006, 12:14 AM
He's going to the Mets.

Omar has already told the higher ups he's going to be the Mets #1 priority this offseason. He can give him what nobody else can, the opportunity to play 2B. Not to mention pay him the most $$$$ since NYY won't go after him.

and they have a new stadium to open up in a few years and they want as many superstars as possible to sell those luxery boxes

MikeO
09-18-2006, 12:17 AM
:eek:

I'm sorry I'm sorry. I agreed with everything else you wrote. Soriano, is a money whore in my opinion, so whoever shows him the most cash he'll be there. Of course if he went to FL he'd probably make the same amount as the combined 24 other guys in the clubhouse.

1) they are all money whores. Why hold it against Soriano?

2) this guy has never tested the FA market. He has always been traded from team to team. So to tag his as a money whore is just inacurate.

3) If he isn't a money whore then he is an idiot. His market value will NEVER be higher. He better get all that he can now. If he doesn't he should fire his agent and blow his brains out!

RWhitney014
09-18-2006, 12:24 AM
1) they are all money whores. Why hold it against Soriano?

2) this guy has never tested the FA market. He has always been traded from team to team. So to tag his as a money whore is just inacurate.

3) If he isn't a money whore then he is an idiot. His market value will NEVER be higher. He better get all that he can now. If he doesn't he should fire his agent and blow his brains out!

1) Agreed
2) He gets a bad rap after the 2B-LF fiasco this past offseason.
3) Agreed, unless he's the one deciding he wants to play in a certain place at a lower price. Which I doubt. But it keeps the Marlins in play, so I'll propose it.

My only thing with him as a Met is that he doesn't particularly like the spotlight. I remember him being very shy in the Bronx, and if he signs a huge deal with the Mets, especially now that they are WS contenders, he's going to have to outdo the season he's having, which won't be easy. Beltran had a tough adjustment year. Soriano's personality is more fragile, so I personally think he'd be better off in a quieter place than Flushing.

Ray Finkle
09-18-2006, 08:39 AM
1) they are all money whores. Why hold it against Soriano?

2) this guy has never tested the FA market. He has always been traded from team to team. So to tag his as a money whore is just inacurate.

3) If he isn't a money whore then he is an idiot. His market value will NEVER be higher. He better get all that he can now. If he doesn't he should fire his agent and blow his brains out!

1.) I'm not.

2.) I just think he's just like the other 95% of pro players. I think that if a team like KC or Tampa Bay offers him 4 years 16 million and a team like Chicago or LA offers him 4 years 14 million he'd be a Devil Ray or Royal.

3.) I agree he should try to get the most money he can.

MikeO
09-18-2006, 11:11 AM
1) Agreed
2) He gets a bad rap after the 2B-LF fiasco this past offseason.
3) Agreed, unless he's the one deciding he wants to play in a certain place at a lower price. Which I doubt. But it keeps the Marlins in play, so I'll propose it.

My only thing with him as a Met is that he doesn't particularly like the spotlight. I remember him being very shy in the Bronx, and if he signs a huge deal with the Mets, especially now that they are WS contenders, he's going to have to outdo the season he's having, which won't be easy. Beltran had a tough adjustment year. Soriano's personality is more fragile, so I personally think he'd be better off in a quieter place than Flushing.

Soriano has played in NY before for the "A" team........going to the Mets, it won't effect him.

MikeO
09-18-2006, 11:12 AM
2.) I just think he's just like the other 95% of pro players. I think that if a team like KC or Tampa Bay offers him 4 years 16 million and a team like Chicago or LA offers him 4 years 14 million he'd be a Devil Ray or Royal.

.

Well yeah, why wouldn't he?? They offered more money!!

djfresh47
09-18-2006, 02:20 PM
He's going to the Mets.

Omar has already told the higher ups he's going to be the Mets #1 priority this offseason. He can give him what nobody else can, the opportunity to play 2B. Not to mention pay him the most $$$$ since NYY won't go after him.

and they have a new stadium to open up in a few years and they want as many superstars as possible to sell those luxery boxes

I think he's a disaster at 2b. The Mets could live with that but this is just me speculating but he was going to get alot of money as a 2b because his numbers dwarfed basically every other 2b. Now that he's put up historically good numbers as an OF I think he's going to get the money he expected to get all along so position won't matter. The Mets are going to be a player and I expect possibly the Cubs/White Sox/Angels/Tigers amongst others. The Nationals screwed up big time not trading him at the deadline. I don't see anyway he re-signs.

Ray Finkle
09-18-2006, 06:27 PM
Well yeah, why wouldn't he?? They offered more money!!

Maybe I'm the minority here but let's for arguement sake say that the Chicago White Sox offered Soriano 4 years for 12 million a year and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays offered him 4 years for 14 million a year and both teams want him to play the same position, if I were Soriano I'd take the White Sox contract. Yes I'd be losing 8 million dollars but to me playing meaningful games and a chance to win a WS would be more important than the 8 million and never getting a chance to play in any important games except for opening day.

Of course this is different with other players. Like if Jeter was let go by the Yankees and since he won for many rings taking the extra money and being on a losing team may be more important to him in that point in his career. Again it also depends on the contract, if a team blows me away with a contract (ala Texas with Arod) I'd be a moron not to sign for that much money. But a few million wouldn't do it for me personally.

So every case is different but if I were Soriano I wouldn't take the best offer if it was from a losing team with no chance. I'd go to the better team with a bigger upside and maybe a few million less in the long run. But again that's just me.

MikeO
09-18-2006, 08:32 PM
Maybe I'm the minority here but let's for arguement sake say that the Chicago White Sox offered Soriano 4 years for 12 million a year and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays offered him 4 years for 14 million a year and both teams want him to play the same position, if I were Soriano I'd take the White Sox contract. Yes I'd be losing 8 million dollars but to me playing meaningful games and a chance to win a WS would be more important than the 8 million and never getting a chance to play in any important games except for opening day.

Of course this is different with other players. Like if Jeter was let go by the Yankees and since he won for many rings taking the extra money and being on a losing team may be more important to him in that point in his career. Again it also depends on the contract, if a team blows me away with a contract (ala Texas with Arod) I'd be a moron not to sign for that much money. But a few million wouldn't do it for me personally.

So every case is different but if I were Soriano I wouldn't take the best offer if it was from a losing team with no chance. I'd go to the better team with a bigger upside and maybe a few million less in the long run. But again that's just me.

the guy isnt' bill gates. $8 mill is still $8 mill. That's a lot of money to turn down!!!!

Ray Finkle
09-18-2006, 08:56 PM
the guy isnt' bill gates. $8 mill is still $8 mill. That's a lot of money to turn down!!!!

I'm aware, all I'm saying is if that was me I'd take less money to play for a team that could possibly be a winner and compete every year compared to a team that'll be out of the race by May or June.

Again 8 million is 8 million but is there a difference when the guy is going to get 56 million in 4 years instead of 64 million?

RWhitney014
09-18-2006, 09:27 PM
The guy can make plenty of money doing endorsements if he wants. That's how the best athletes make their huge fortunes. There's a reason bad teams rarely make huge signings. No one wants to waste the best years of their athletic lives playing for a team that is definitely going to suck unless that team's the only one offering a contract.

Ray Finkle
09-18-2006, 09:43 PM
The guy can make plenty of money doing endorsements if he wants. That's how the best athletes make their huge fortunes. There's a reason bad teams rarely make huge signings. No one wants to waste the best years of their athletic lives playing for a team that is definitely going to suck unless that team's the only one offering a contract.

Exactly!

That's why Derek Jeter makes more money than Alex Rodriguez.

And why people say if Damon really wanted to make more money he would have stayed in Boston for the 40 million for 4 years deal.

phinphan896
09-18-2006, 11:11 PM
one of the few guys whose super skinny but knows how to whack the ball. does not look like a roider at all. props to him

MikeO
09-18-2006, 11:29 PM
Again 8 million is 8 million but is there a difference when the guy is going to get 56 million in 4 years instead of 64 million?

YES!!!!!!! This is a ruthless business. You could tear a knee tomorrow and never be the same. Take the sure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

djfresh47
09-18-2006, 11:33 PM
Maybe I'm the minority here but let's for arguement sake say that the Chicago White Sox offered Soriano 4 years for 12 million a year and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays offered him 4 years for 14 million a year and both teams want him to play the same position, if I were Soriano I'd take the White Sox contract. Yes I'd be losing 8 million dollars but to me playing meaningful games and a chance to win a WS would be more important than the 8 million and never getting a chance to play in any important games except for opening day.

Of course this is different with other players. Like if Jeter was let go by the Yankees and since he won for many rings taking the extra money and being on a losing team may be more important to him in that point in his career. Again it also depends on the contract, if a team blows me away with a contract (ala Texas with Arod) I'd be a moron not to sign for that much money. But a few million wouldn't do it for me personally.

So every case is different but if I were Soriano I wouldn't take the best offer if it was from a losing team with no chance. I'd go to the better team with a bigger upside and maybe a few million less in the long run. But again that's just me.

I do think Kenny Williams will make a run at Soriano but we shall see they could go young and go with Ryan Sweeney or Josh Fields in LF. He's going to have alot of offers but I think he ends up with the Angels. Still it comes down to the Nationals not dealing him. I think they're going to have to blow him away with an offer for him to stay there.

Boik14
09-18-2006, 11:34 PM
He's going to the Mets.

Omar has already told the higher ups he's going to be the Mets #1 priority this offseason. He can give him what nobody else can, the opportunity to play 2B. Not to mention pay him the most $$$$ since NYY won't go after him.

and they have a new stadium to open up in a few years and they want as many superstars as possible to sell those luxery boxesI havent seen that printed anywhere so any link would be appreciated?

Ray Finkle
09-18-2006, 11:36 PM
YES!!!!!!! This is a ruthless business. You could tear a knee tomorrow and never be the same. Take the sure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Again, what's the difference in getting 56 million instead of 64? You make it out to sound like the guy is going to be in the poor house if he doesn't take the contract where he'd get the most amount of money. Even Arod who took 252 million was miserable in Texas because the team sucked so bad and gave money back along with switching a position just to play for a winner. Money isn't everything.

No one could ever spend all that money, not even Strawberry of Gooden on drugs or hookers (ok maybe that's a bad example). But my only point is, if it were me I'd take less money and play for a winner and try to win a World Series.

I guess you'd take the most amount of money even if that meant you'd be on a losing team for X amount of years. Which is fine. Everyone has a price and like I said it would take more to get me to sign with a loser, again depending on the contracts and how much more money was offered and of course the years involved.

Boik14
09-18-2006, 11:38 PM
1) Agreed
2) He gets a bad rap after the 2B-LF fiasco this past offseason.
3) Agreed, unless he's the one deciding he wants to play in a certain place at a lower price. Which I doubt. But it keeps the Marlins in play, so I'll propose it.

My only thing with him as a Met is that he doesn't particularly like the spotlight. I remember him being very shy in the Bronx, and if he signs a huge deal with the Mets, especially now that they are WS contenders, he's going to have to outdo the season he's having, which won't be easy. Beltran had a tough adjustment year. Soriano's personality is more fragile, so I personally think he'd be better off in a quieter place than Flushing. Sori? Fragile? hes been begging to come back to NY since he was dealt? Shy is one of the last words I'd use to describe him because you simply cannot be shy or fragile and play well in this city; the media and fans will eat you alive. Beltran had a season to grow a thick skin and get used to the intense pressure even during the regular season.

I think sori would be fine offensively anywhere he plays. Hes going to hit; if he can do it in washington hed do it in NY, florida or anywhere else.

My only thing is Im not sure the mets will offer that kind of cash. I think NYM is looking to score a bigtime arm like Zito or schmidt or even a deal for willis/anyone else who can be dealt for. They have a lot of depth but aside from pedro and Glavine not a lot of proven quality.

Boik14
09-18-2006, 11:41 PM
YES!!!!!!! This is a ruthless business. You could tear a knee tomorrow and never be the same. Take the sure $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 2 words: Guaranteed contract.

If he took 14 instead of 16 he'd stil be fine but I do hear your point loud and clear brotha.

djfresh47
09-19-2006, 12:16 AM
Sori? Fragile? hes been begging to come back to NY since he was dealt? Shy is one of the last words I'd use to describe him because you simply cannot be shy or fragile and play well in this city; the media and fans will eat you alive. Beltran had a season to grow a thick skin and get used to the intense pressure even during the regular season.

I think sori would be fine offensively anywhere he plays. Hes going to hit; if he can do it in washington hed do it in NY, florida or anywhere else.

My only thing is Im not sure the mets will offer that kind of cash. I think NYM is looking to score a bigtime arm like Zito or schmidt or even a deal for willis/anyone else who can be dealt for. They have a lot of depth but aside from pedro and Glavine not a lot of proven quality.

Those aren't the youngest of pitchers either. I think Soriano could hit in New York again but I don't think alot of guys can perform there which should be obvious atleast in the case of the Yankees.