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View Full Version : If you had the 16th pick in the draft...



PhinFan0202
09-20-2006, 12:16 AM
Let's all play GM for a second. If you had the 16th pick in this year's draft who would you have picked? Would you have picked Jason Allen? I wanted to pick Manny Lawson.

Wallace758
09-20-2006, 12:24 AM
Definitely Not Jason Allen...he's A 2nd Round Pick...horrible Pick..sorry Guys

Miamifin23
09-20-2006, 12:27 AM
Yeah we can sure judge him after all this time he's been on this team huh? Give me a break. A lot of rookies don't make an impact until their 2nd-3rd season. Give him time. If you watched him when he was on the field at Tenn, he was an amazing player.

MastR_EvaluatoR
09-20-2006, 12:28 AM
Let's all play GM for a second. If you had the 16th pick in this year's draft who would you have picked? Would you have picked Jason Allen? I wanted to pick Manny Lawson.

I was prayin for Manny Lawson too when our time came draft day.. Lawson has been awesome for the 49'ers already !

So far after two games, Lawson has 2 sacks (one against Orlando Pace) seven tackles in his first Pro game vs the cards, and the game changing tackle behind the line of scrimmage to seal the win versus the Rams . Now THAT'S a First Round Pick folks !

Our front 7 is getting OLD and he would have been the perfect anecdote. He has been flat out brilliant for San Fran and he was the perfect piece to replace Julian Peterson at OLB .. In a 3-4 defense , Lawson would have been great on one side with Taylor on the other side. But I guess Saban had other plans. LOL

PhinFan0202
09-20-2006, 12:30 AM
Definitely Not Jason Allen...he's A 2nd Round Pick...horrible Pick..sorry Guys

I was surprised when i herd the pick and i really didn't think we were going to pick him. I thought first that we might get Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson. Than i thought maybe they might get Manny Lawson because we have Jason Taylor to mentor him. I was seriously like WTF? Who?! i think he will turn out alright though.

icephinfan
09-20-2006, 12:30 AM
Definitely Not Jason Allen...he's A 2nd Round Pick...horrible Pick..sorry Guys

Yep, that is what I heard on draft day and all the draft magazines said the exact samething, Jason Allen is a reach in the 1st round.

Question, was Jimmy Williams still available at 16?????

PhinFan0202
09-20-2006, 12:31 AM
I was prayin for Manny Lawson too when our time came draft day.. Lawson has been awesome for the 49'ers already !

So far after two games, Lawson has 2 sacks (one against Orlando Pace) seven tackles in his first Pro game vs the cards, and the game changing tackle behind the line of scrimmage to seal the win versus the Rams .

Our front 7 is getting OLD and he would have been the perfect anecdote.

Yeah i was just watching the game film on youtube. Manny Lawson playing some great ball for the Niners. The definately used their first round picks wisely.

PhinFan0202
09-20-2006, 12:32 AM
Yep, that is what I heard on draft day and all the draft magazines said the exact samething, Jason Allen is a reach in the 1st round.

Question, was Jimmy Williams still available at 16?????

Yeah he was still available. So was Antonio Cromartie...

RoninFin4
09-20-2006, 12:35 AM
Lawson, Cromartie, Jimmy Williams, Winston Justice...any of them would have been fine with me.

icephinfan
09-20-2006, 12:36 AM
Yeah he was still available. So was Antonio Cromartie...

Jimmy Williams or Antonio Cromartie would have been nice.

Actually the draft magazine I had, said Jimmy Williams would go to us in the first round:tantrum: . Wow, what could have been.

MastR_EvaluatoR
09-20-2006, 12:37 AM
Yep, that is what I heard on draft day and all the draft magazines said the exact samething, Jason Allen is a reach in the 1st round.

Question, was Jimmy Williams still available at 16?????

Jimmy Williams is playing great ball for Atlanta, they really like him alot.. they really improved their defense too with other moves in the offseason . Superb linebacking corps . They were My darkhorse pick in the NFC. I wasn't surprised when they walked into Carolina and blew em out .. I love that team.

Saban's love for SEC guys is gonna bite him in the butt because he is missing out on better players.

icephinfan
09-20-2006, 12:39 AM
Jimmy Williams is playing great ball for Atlanta, they really like him alot.. they really improved their defense too with other moves in the offseason . Superb linebacking corps . My darkhorse pick in the NFC. I love that team.

Yep, Atlanta is looking very strong this year.

FinsGonnaRock06
09-20-2006, 12:40 AM
I was hoping for Manny Lawson. I was thinking somewhat of a Shawn Merriman type player in him.

Fresh
09-20-2006, 12:40 AM
Even though I was intrigued by Manny Lawson's pass rushing skills and his ability to play both DE/OLB [especially how OLB, a pass rusher to be specific, is one of our most glaring needs even to this moment], I would've taken Antonio Cromartie if I had enough info from the scouts on a positive note. I think he's going to be a top corner in this league in time, and his size/speed combo truly amazes me. He strikes me as the Chris Gamble type, but a bit more physical and maybe a bit more raw talent.

You guys are really jumping the gun on Jason Allen though - it's sad & extremely ridiculous. Most rookies don't make huge impacts year one, much less the first two games. Some make impacts from day one, while others take two or three years.

PhinFan0202
09-20-2006, 12:44 AM
Jimmy Williams is playing great ball for Atlanta, they really like him alot.. they really improved their defense too with other moves in the offseason . Superb linebacking corps . They were My darkhorse pick in the NFC. I wasn't surprised when they walked into Carolina and blew em out .. I love that team.

Saban's love for SEC guys is gonna bite him in the butt because he is missing out on better players.

Atlanta is looking nasty right now. I like the Niners as my surprise team. Alex Smith looks totally different from last year and looks like he might be the real deal.

FinNasty
09-20-2006, 12:52 AM
Let's all play GM for a second. If you had the 16th pick in this year's draft who would you have picked? Would you have picked Jason Allen? I wanted to pick Manny Lawson.

Manny Lawson was also my first choice. But JAllen was on my wish list as well. #4 behind Manny, Greenway, & Jimmy Williams...

Frayser
09-20-2006, 12:52 AM
I was prayin for Manny Lawson too when our time came draft day.. Lawson has been awesome for the 49'ers already !

So far after two games, Lawson has 2 sacks (one against Orlando Pace) seven tackles in his first Pro game vs the cards, and the game changing tackle behind the line of scrimmage to seal the win versus the Rams . Now THAT'S a First Round Pick folks !

Our front 7 is getting OLD and he would have been the perfect anecdote. He has been flat out brilliant for San Fran and he was the perfect piece to replace Julian Peterson at OLB .. In a 3-4 defense , Lawson would have been great on one side with Taylor on the other side. But I guess Saban had other plans. LOL

I wanted Lawson as soon as I saw his combine performance. He is a beast. There was another thread about how our blitz scheme is simply not working, and I think Lawson would have been a huge help there. He also had an interception in preseason and forced another one by hitting the QB.

I won't knock drafting a safety because I think it was a position of need, but I felt from day one that Lawson would have contributed more than Allen right from the start.

Gonk
09-20-2006, 12:58 AM
We really needed help at Safety around draft time. He was expected to start, so looking back it probably would've been better to go in another direction. Lawson would've been an awesome pick.

jason_taylor
09-20-2006, 01:20 AM
I was prayin for Manny Lawson too when our time came draft day.. Lawson has been awesome for the 49'ers already !

So far after two games, Lawson has 2 sacks (one against Orlando Pace) seven tackles in his first Pro game vs the cards, and the game changing tackle behind the line of scrimmage to seal the win versus the Rams . Now THAT'S a First Round Pick folks !

Our front 7 is getting OLD and he would have been the perfect anecdote. He has been flat out brilliant for San Fran and he was the perfect piece to replace Julian Peterson at OLB .. In a 3-4 defense , Lawson would have been great on one side with Taylor on the other side. But I guess Saban had other plans. LOL

whooooooaaa!!!! if you going to wish big than it would be shawn merriman he is the beast in this years draft :wink:

Vertical Limit
09-20-2006, 01:32 AM
Would have drafted Manny Lawson, Antonio Cromartie or Jimmy Williams in the 1st, and grabbed Ko Simpson in the 3rd round.

Here's to hoping that Jason Allen and Derek Hagan turns out good. They are great athletes but haven't showed their abilities yet. They are rookies though, so they should develop well and be much more serviceable in their 2nd or 3rd year [especially Jason Allen, who looks like he needs a full training camp..]

MastR_EvaluatoR
09-20-2006, 01:37 AM
whooooooaaa!!!! if you going to wish big than it would be shawn merriman he is the beast in this years draft :wink:

Umm, Shawn Merriman wasn't drafted this year.. San Diego took him in the first round LAST year.. San Diego took Cromartie in the first round THIS year .

bigbade
09-20-2006, 01:41 AM
Anyone else notice a trend with your 'sub' picks? How bout they all came to camp on time . Lets give the guy some time to even get on the field before he's a bust.

Despacio
09-20-2006, 02:03 AM
Yeah, let's all play the game of I'm a better GM than Saban and Mueller b/c I have hindisight at my disposal.

Who cares who else could have been picked, Saban chose Allen and that's that. Why not dissect what Allen needs to work on to get better/improve/catch-up/grow. etc?

adamprez2003
09-20-2006, 02:10 AM
I was a huge Greenway fan. Its a shame he's out this year. I wouldve loved to seen how he did. To tell you the truth if I was the coach last year we wouldve tanked a few games to be able to draft Cutler. I never wouldve allowed us to win six in a row and cost us a chance at Cutler

dlockz
09-20-2006, 02:17 AM
It just sucks that there are a bunch of rookie safeties playing and Allen is not one.

Huff
Whitner
Simpson
Watkins
Harper

All starters and Allen not playing, quit making excuses for Bonus boy.
Allen is not a bust yet, but this proves we could have drafted another position and got a good safety later.

HybridPHIN 23
09-20-2006, 02:26 AM
Lawson, Allen, or Cromartie..... We need 2ndary help the most and our safeties can't cover....... The fact that Allen hasn't started his first 2 games hasnt taken anything away from my expectations of him. I don't understand why people are calling for his head like he's some vet that blew a game or something.... he came in extremely late and was learning 2 positions.... I'm loving this tho because alot of you are simply setting yourselves up to eat crow on purpose like many did last year with Ronnie... Do any of you even know what it feels like when a guy you've been pulling for really comes into his own and develops into everything you thought he'd be ? Or do you just doubt and hate on guys til theres no longer a reason to do so ?

unifiedtheory
09-20-2006, 02:29 AM
Definitely Not Jason Allen...he's A 2nd Round Pick...horrible Pick..sorry Guys
Going into the season Allen was thought of league wide as a top 10 talent. If he had not hurt his hip he would have gone top 10.

We got VALUE with our 16th pick.

How about we give the guy more then 2 ****ing weeks before we call him a bust.

dlockz
09-20-2006, 02:39 AM
Going into the season Allen was thought of league wide as a top 10 talent. If he had not hurt his hip he would have gone top 10.

We got VALUE with our 16th pick.

How about we give the guy more then 2 ****ing weeks before we call him a bust.

Maybe he would have went top 10 and maybe he would have dropped because Tennesse's secondary played bad. Justice was a top 10 talent and he got drafted second round. When a fifth round pick is starting and playing well and our first rounder is riding the pine thats not a good sign. I liked Pat Watkins better than Allen before the draft and stated as much from the beginning.

musphinzfan
09-20-2006, 02:39 AM
Basically it was a terrible draft as usual for the Phins.No doubt we shoulda traded down.....Saban u Fudged up again....Traden a 2nd for Culpepper was a terrible mistake but taken Allen who couldnt even play a fullyr in the 1st is dreadful.

dlockz
09-20-2006, 02:42 AM
Basically it was a terrible draft as usual for the Phins.No doubt we shoulda traded down.....Saban u Fudged up again....Traden a 2nd for Culpepper was a terrible mistake but taken Allen who couldnt even play a fullyr in the 1st is dreadful.

Cannot fault Saban on the Culpepper trade and Allen could be fine, we just had too many needs not to trade down and Pittsburgh wanted to trade up.

unifiedtheory
09-20-2006, 02:44 AM
Basically it was a terrible draft as usual for the Phins.No doubt we shoulda traded down.....Saban u Fudged up again....Traden a 2nd for Culpepper was a terrible mistake but taken Allen who couldnt even play a fullyr in the 1st is dreadful.
Let me get this straight. Your'e grouping Saban's 2 drafts into what the team has done in the past? Saban's first draft was very good. It takes THREE years to fully evaluate a draft...not 2 weeks.

Trading a 2nd for Culpepper was a great move and it will be proven to be a great move.

Taking Allen in the first was also the best decision. Hindsight when evaluating drafts is always easy. Saying ANY player is a bust after 2 weeks is hilarious.

unifiedtheory
09-20-2006, 02:45 AM
Maybe he would have went top 10 and maybe he would have dropped because Tennesse's secondary played bad. Justice was a top 10 talent and he got drafted second round. When a fifth round pick is starting and playing well and our first rounder is riding the pine thats not a good sign. I liked Pat Watkins better than Allen before the draft and stated as much from the beginning.

How can you evaluate a draft pick after 2 weeks?

YOU CAN'T!

musphinzfan
09-20-2006, 02:51 AM
Let me get this straight. Your'e grouping Saban's 2 drafts into what the team has done in the past? Saban's first draft was very good. It takes THREE years to fully evaluate a draft...not 2 weeks.

Trading a 2nd for Culpepper was a great move and it will be proven to be a great move.

Taking Allen in the first was also the best decision. Hindsight when evaluating drafts is always easy. Saying ANY player is a bust after 2 weeks is hilarious.


Get off the meds....Ronnie is a gimme after that its garbage....this years picks are garbage....And Culpepper i said from day 1 sucks has a underated arm and is not a leader.

Laugh now and cry later...And tell me how the F was Allen the best decision thats HILARIOUS!!

dlockz
09-20-2006, 02:53 AM
How can you evaluate a draft pick after 2 weeks?

YOU CAN'T!

I did not evaluate the draft after two weeks and the last time I checked there were a bunch of people giving out grades and opinions. My opinion was our line needed better personel and the safety position was deep enough to fill after the first round. We could have took the Steelers offer and turned out better off in the long run. I said from the beginning that Joe Toledo was fragile and had not shown enough in college to take in the fourth. I wanted Johnathon Scott who at the least is the backup LT for the Lions and not sitting out the year with yet another injury. My favorite pick was Rod Wright who has done as much for the fins as any of thier picks so far and he is not even gonna play. Allen may be fine and I have not questioned that he will be ok but there are rookie safeties on better defenses that are starting and playing more than Mr holdout.

Aussiefinfan54
09-20-2006, 04:03 AM
NO WAY i would have taken cromartie or chad greenway

dlockz
09-20-2006, 04:05 AM
NO WAY i would have taken cromartie or chad greenway

I disliked Cromartie for same reason as Allen injuries although Greenway would have been a decent pick(hopefully would not have got injured) Still we needed line and we have not drafted jack there.

zackmandude63
09-20-2006, 04:54 AM
i was hoping for lawson too. i was at work during the draft, and i texted my friend to see who we drafted. when he said we got allen, i was like, "who the eff is jason allon?"

i also think that because of his injury, it was a risk taking him with the first round pick, because you just dont know how it'll hold up.

zackmandude63
09-20-2006, 04:55 AM
I disliked Cromartie for same reason as Allen injuries although Greenway would have been a decent pick(hopefully would not have got injured) Still we needed line and we have not drafted jack there.

roth wouldve loved to have greenway is south florida.

unifiedtheory
09-20-2006, 05:00 AM
Get off the meds....Ronnie is a gimme after that its garbage....this years picks are garbage....And Culpepper i said from day 1 sucks has a underated arm and is not a leader.

Laugh now and cry later...And tell me how the F was Allen the best decision thats HILARIOUS!!

Thank you for your stunning insight...

Evaluating a draft after 2 weeks?

Daniels, Roth and Crowder are garbage? Talk to me in 2 years.

How can Daunte suck AND have an underrated arm?

Do you have documented evidence of who you would have taken at #16 or is it all hindsight? Anyone can talk out of their *** 5 months AFTER a draft.

Once again, you can not tell how good a player will be after 2 weeks in any circumstance. I'm tired of wasting my time arguing with you...back to VIP.

BlaznRoarn
09-20-2006, 05:07 AM
I don't see the Manny Lawson pick that a few of you are spouting about. Remember he plays on an awful team and will get all the playing time he can get. So he should put up some #'s. Not every player has a gimmie at a starting position. I do believe that Lawson could be good, especially for all the impatient rookie fans out there :D.

DefensiveEnd#76
09-20-2006, 05:39 AM
I agree with Unified Theory. Come back in 2008 and tell me how the players from the 2005 and 2006 draft are doing then. If they stink at that time then call them busts.

FinFan_Est.1984
09-20-2006, 06:02 AM
Thank you for your stunning insight...

Evaluating a draft after 2 weeks?

Daniels, Roth and Crowder are garbage? Talk to me in 2 years.

How can Daunte suck AND have an underrated arm?

Do you have documented evidence of who you would have taken at #16 or is it all hindsight? Anyone can talk out of their *** 5 months AFTER a draft.

Once again, you can not tell how good a player will be after 2 weeks in any circumstance. I'm tired of wasting my time arguing with you...back to VIP.

Dont go back to VIP! We need more voices of reason in the mix. ..:dolphins:

I truly think I am going crazy with all of these ****ed up DolFans that cry cry cry and cry some more. Woulda shoulda coulda before it has even had time to happen. Let the egg hatch and then we will see what kind of chicken or rooster we have in the hen house. :tantrum:

adamprez2003
09-20-2006, 06:57 AM
Get off the meds....Ronnie is a gimme after that its garbage....this years picks are garbage....And Culpepper i said from day 1 sucks has a underated arm and is not a leader.

Laugh now and cry later...And tell me how the F was Allen the best decision thats HILARIOUS!!

Roth is improving and Chowder was a flat out steal. Daniels is fine from what Ive seen. If any of the others pan out you have to rate last year's draft an A. Allen with his injury concerns was definitely a reach IMO but its too early to right him off. He has talent and we might get lucky and he'll stay healthy from here on out. The rest of the draft seems junk to me though we may get lucky on one or two late rounders. This year's is probably a C though it still has the potential for a D or F

jlfin
09-20-2006, 07:32 AM
Yeah we can sure judge him after all this time he's been on this team huh? Give me a break. A lot of rookies don't make an impact until their 2nd-3rd season. Give him time. If you watched him when he was on the field at Tenn, he was an amazing player.

I agree with your post. I still think he's going to be an excellent player.
However, at the time my feeling was that the biggest need was to get a pass rushing LB. With all the FA signings in the secondary I didn't feel that safety was the biggest need.
For the guy who posted before you stating that Allen is a 2nd rd talent, well, he is an uninformed clown.

South Florida
09-20-2006, 07:33 AM
Slow Down.

Let him fail in the NFL first, Jeez.

jlfin
09-20-2006, 07:34 AM
roth wouldve loved to have greenway is south florida.

Greenway wasn't even at the top of the depth chart at the time of his injury. He was 2nd string.

mike71
09-20-2006, 09:55 AM
the last guy in the draft i would have picked would have been jason allen. i was mad when they picked him and i am still waiting for this guy to make any contribution whatsoever!!! if i could go back i definitely would have picked nick mangold.

zonk4ever
09-20-2006, 10:07 AM
Considering he is healthy and the secondary is a bunch of castoffs from other teams, right now, Jason Allen is easily one of the top 5 worst #1 draft picks in dolphin history. However, it's still early enough for him to improve and only the college geniuses at LSU had the IQ to grasp Saban's defensive schemes. He is athletic and 4.3 fast. GeeZ, can't he return a kickoff, punt or something?

Pocoloco
09-20-2006, 10:35 AM
I absolutely would've picked Jason Allen. Cromartie was interesting, but had less college playing time and was also coming off an injury. I think you could make a good case for Manny Lawson. Saban wants his safeties to be like defensive quarterbacks, so it doesn't surprise me that he went that way.

Not having a second hurt us this year, because we could have had a shot at Chad Jackson, Jimmy Williams, or Winston Justice there.

For all of you that have concluded that Allen is a horrible pick or a bust, you obviously don't know a thing about how drafting works in the NFL. Maybe it's a holdover from the Wanny/Spielman days because just about all of his picks were a bust, but very few guys make an impact right away. Throw in the fact that he was learning two positions in this defense (something Saban said was a mistake), and you delay things more. Allen could be great, or he could be a bust, there's honestly no way of knowing at this particular moment.

NathanHunt
09-20-2006, 10:53 AM
First round picks are not developmental players. Period.

They are immediate impact or franchise players. I can see sitting a QB for 1 year, but every other position is impact. The guy should be ready to start on Week 1.

Greatness doesn't need excuses.

I also fault the FO for not getting the deal done as Wayne wanted.

We are simply burning too many candles on both ends.

We are trying to lowball every player. Meanwhile, in many situations (while not blinking), we are not bring in backup plans.

I'm still fuming about letting Gus go. That was a complete idiotic move. And to hear Saban give the excuse "Daunte is still recovering" only makes me want to throw a chair through the TV. As if his "still recovering" couldn't be foreseen in March. No one said he couldn't walk by Week 1. No one said he couldn't play by Week 1. The REAL question was how well he could be expected to play by Week 1. So, why not keep Gus to transition us while still being productive as Daunte OR whomever the new QB would have been has learned the system and is ready to hit the field running (so to speak). Quite honestly, our offensive productivity is directly related to Daunte's not being ready, chemisty with WRs, poor decision making on the field and our lack of propensity to run the ball. Which leads me to Ricky.

Sure, Ricky's problem was not completely predictable in January. But, we knew his history. We knew our depth @ RB. And, more poignantly, we supposedly have a coach who always wants to "get better" at every position. Please tell me how we addressed getting better @ RB before camp.

No one was available you say? What about DeAngelo Williams... Laurence Maroney.... or any of the other platoon of backs that have been traded and acquired this year by other teams. Where were we in the mix?

And, if you say the Williams and Maroney were not feasible solutions with the 1st round pick, then why did they land on teams that had an entrenched starter returning? And, now look at their relative importance to those teams. Those starters had injury histories you say? Ronnie didn't? We couldn't foresee Morris' problem that soon?

Knowledge of Morris' problems began in March Morris disputes drug suspension (SI) (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/lester_munson/09/08/munson.morris.piece/index.html)

Knowledge of Ricky's problems began in February Report: Williams appeals failed drug test (NFL.com) (http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/MIA/9252853)

Where was the backup plans we've been preached about?

We entered the draft with drug penalty issues surrounding RB2, RB3 and our RB4 was a ST ace with no real glamorous productivity on the field in his past. We had just traded for our QB1 in early March and were looking for a QB2. Not too mention we had just turned over both coordinator positions.

Sure, we had a LOT of holes. But, our winning streak was dependent upon our RB2 and the improved play from QB1 and QB2. Yet, we let all 3 positions become victimized and did nothing to ensure a continued level of productivity to start the season.

And please don't say Joey and Daunte were upgrades in productivity for the early part of the season. 2 new QBs cannot be expected to assimilate with a new team, relative new offense and coaching staff while splitting snaps. Gus should have been kept.

We would have been better served acquiring Williams or Maroney. Ronnie is our #1 back and you don't want to start a contaversy you say? Ronnie did well with Ricky last year. Ricky was a known short term solution. But, what was the problem? The problem is a shared backfield. It's evident now, even when averaging nearly 5ypc against Buffalo, we decided to give Ronnie 15 carries. And 15 against Pitt. It's obvious we do not intend to allow Ronnie to shoulder the load. It's obvious our system is a platoon system @ RB. So, why didn't we address the longevity of the platoon?

Sure, we needed DB help, but we couldn't find it elsewhere? Keeping Lance wasn't an option? Recruiting another FA DB wasn't a possibility? Why not, we found 2 starting DBs in FA, what's one more?

I'm a Saban fan and I DO understand why he does many things he does, but guys, we cannot rebuild every year. You must have continuity to carry over success. Last year's Buffalo loss (early) kept us out of the playoffs. I said it then and I'll say it now, this Buffalo loss will hurt much more later in the year.

And "not drafting" Jason Allen would have prevented that?

Yes, if we'd drafted another RB, kept Lance and Gus.

Pick it apart. But, it's Wednesday and I'm still fuming from Sunday.

In order to reach the next level, you must win the games you are supposed to win. I keep hearing our fans say "those 6 wins were inflated". NO, they are not. Remember this:

In order to be elite, you have to win every game you are supposed to and even those you are not.

We were fulfilling the first part. But now, we just took a few steps back.

I still believe in Saban and what he's doing. But, he's made some bad choices and we are suffering because of it.

Motion
09-20-2006, 11:44 AM
Question, was Jimmy Williams still available at 16?????

Jimmy Williams fell to the 2nd round.

Motion
09-20-2006, 11:47 AM
Basically it was a terrible draft as usual for the Phins.No doubt we shoulda traded down.....Saban u Fudged up again....Traden a 2nd for Culpepper was a terrible mistake but taken Allen who couldnt even play a fullyr in the 1st is dreadful.

Clueless, completely clueless. How can you say last year's draft was terrible? Crowder, Roth, and Daniels are terrible? wow :eek:

dlockz
09-20-2006, 11:54 AM
Not sure why a discussion about last year's 16th pick was bumped to draft forum especially since it was our pick but oh well. I guess the forum should be why we should have not taken S Jason Allen with the 16th pick.

dlockz
09-20-2006, 11:55 AM
Greenway wasn't even at the top of the depth chart at the time of his injury. He was 2nd string.

At least he probably would have been on the field for some plays unlike Allen.

Motion
09-20-2006, 12:06 PM
I don't see the Manny Lawson pick that a few of you are spouting about. Remember he plays on an awful team and will get all the playing time he can get. So he should put up some #'s. Not every player has a gimmie at a starting position. I do believe that Lawson could be good, especially for all the impatient rookie fans out there :D.

Seems to be alot of those here.

dlockz
09-20-2006, 12:45 PM
Seems to be alot of those here.

Lawson's awful team seems to be better than ours lol. There are like 5 rookie safeties starting and our guy is not one of them. I would feel betetr if he was actually playing.

Motion
09-20-2006, 12:48 PM
Lawson's awful team seems to be better than ours lol. There are like 5 rookie safeties starting and our guy is not one of them. I would feel betetr if he was actually playing.

Oh I hear ya. I just think the team has alot bigger needs than the pass rusher many are/were pulling for.

In a perfect world we could have traded down and picked up Max Jean Giles and Winston Justice, then taken our safety, Ko Simpson or Pat Watkins later on.

PhinFan0202
09-20-2006, 03:05 PM
Not sure why a discussion about last year's 16th pick was bumped to draft forum especially since it was our pick but oh well. I guess the forum should be why we should have not taken S Jason Allen with the 16th pick.

I started this forum and that was not my question at all. I was asking who the fans would have picked now that the draft picks have got some NFL action. I never once said that Jason Allen was going to be bust i actually think when ge gets a chance to start he will be good.

Kdawg954
09-20-2006, 05:36 PM
LMAO @ this thread . . on da real, and u fairweather fans come out to threads like this. Have any of u questioned the fact that would any of these "subs" u are suggesting would even be starting on this team? Remember Saban likes guys who know his defense (His first season obviously nobody knew his defense except Daniels, which is why it made room for him and Crowder to make early impacts, plus we were in rebuild mode also, Roth is just in a tuff spot being on such a talented DLine, but I'm pretty sure u guys think he sucks because he hasn't been able to take over a spot yet). Do u think Manny Lawson would have been the starter over Spragan? I don't think so, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. All these safeties would most likely be in similar situations as Allen is in right now, so stop trying to make it seem like the man sucks when these guys are on completely different teams. If JaAllen was on Buffalo instead of Whitner . . . he would be starting right now . . . so tho this thread may be hypothetical, thats all it is . . .has no relevance or truth to what really would have happened.

Must be fun to see who is starting 2 weeks into the season, rather than judge off of combine numbers and college to make your "subs" tho.

PhinFan0202
09-20-2006, 07:19 PM
LMAO @ this thread . . on da real, and u fairweather fans come out to threads like this. Have any of u questioned the fact that would any of these "subs" u are suggesting would even be starting on this team? Remember Saban likes guys who know his defense (His first season obviously nobody knew his defense except Daniels, which is why it made room for him and Crowder to make early impacts, plus we were in rebuild mode also, Roth is just in a tuff spot being on such a talented DLine, but I'm pretty sure u guys think he sucks because he hasn't been able to take over a spot yet). Do u think Manny Lawson would have been the starter over Spragan? I don't think so, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. All these safeties would most likely be in similar situations as Allen is in right now, so stop trying to make it seem like the man sucks when these guys are on completely different teams. If JaAllen was on Buffalo instead of Whitner . . . he would be starting right now . . . so tho this thread may be hypothetical, thats all it is . . .has no relevance or truth to what really would have happened.

Must be fun to see who is starting 2 weeks into the season, rather than judge off of combine numbers and college to make your "subs" tho.

We really didn't get a bad pick in the draft. Half of the reason Allen is on the bench is that he came into camp late. Ronnie came into camp late but he was the only runningback we had. Ricky was suspened, Sammy Morris is more of a spot back, and Travis Minor probably couldn't get the job done as a starter(2004 season). Allen is on the bench because there are better people at safety at this point. Allen has major upside which is why we drafted him.

Coral Reefer
09-20-2006, 08:51 PM
I was hoping for Manny Lawson 1st and Cromartie 2nd.

Having said that, I'm not going to knee jerk the Allen pick.
Contrary to what many crazy people feel, draft picks just don't start out lighting the NFL on fire.

PHINATIC13
09-20-2006, 09:08 PM
I wanted Nick Mangold C,now with the Jets.It doesn't seem anymore of a "reach" then taking J.Allen with the 16th pick imo.

Caps
09-20-2006, 09:20 PM
I would've picked Manny Lawson in the 1st if I was in charge at the time.

King Felix
09-21-2006, 01:34 AM
*slowly heads back to vip*

dlockz
09-21-2006, 05:04 AM
I started this forum and that was not my question at all. I was asking who the fans would have picked now that the draft picks have got some NFL action. I never once said that Jason Allen was going to be bust i actually think when ge gets a chance to start he will be good.

I'm confused I never said he was a bust, I think he was a reach and oline was more of a need, but I have never used the word bust on him. I will call Glass Joe Toledo a bust right now because he will never be healthy.

jim1
09-21-2006, 05:26 PM
Let's all play GM for a second. If you had the 16th pick in this year's draft who would you have picked? Would you have picked Jason Allen? I wanted to pick Manny Lawson.

I agree- Manny Lawson. How is he playing for the 49'ers?

PhinsRDbest
09-22-2006, 02:05 PM
I woulda picked Cromartie. Then Ko Simpson in the 3rd.

Also woulda of gave a 3rd in the Supplemental draft to get Ahmad Brooks.

Mike13
09-22-2006, 02:43 PM
I wanted Lawson or Chad Jackson. But its way too early to tell how these picks will pan out.

PhinFan0202
09-22-2006, 05:56 PM
I agree- Manny Lawson. How is he playing for the 49'ers?

These clips will give you an idea of how he is doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MjWFpz-CNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MjWFpz-CNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqso8stHGY8&mode=related&search=

dwhorton
09-23-2006, 07:22 PM
i was hopingfor bobby carpenteras an olb/de.

Vertical Limit
09-23-2006, 07:30 PM
I wanted Nick Mangold C,now with the Jets.It doesn't seem anymore of a "reach" then taking J.Allen with the 16th pick imo.
Yeah, Nick Mangold would have definitely been good for us.

dominizzo
09-25-2006, 02:03 AM
Manny Lawson

Motion
09-25-2006, 08:33 AM
LMAO @ this thread . . on da real, and u fairweather fans come out to threads like this. Have any of u questioned the fact that would any of these "subs" u are suggesting would even be starting on this team? Remember Saban likes guys who know his defense (His first season obviously nobody knew his defense except Daniels, which is why it made room for him and Crowder to make early impacts, plus we were in rebuild mode also, Roth is just in a tuff spot being on such a talented DLine, but I'm pretty sure u guys think he sucks because he hasn't been able to take over a spot yet).
LMAO @ this post. Obviously the only players that will know his system are the ones that played for him before. WTF does that have to do with anything? Allen never played for him.

Static387
09-26-2006, 04:18 PM
Greenway, Carpenter, Lawson all would have been fine with me.

Mangold & Justice too

PhinFan0202
09-26-2006, 09:48 PM
Kind of off the subject but for this year's draft does anyone think that Tyler Palco has any sort of skills to become a starting NFL QB.

Kdawg954
09-29-2006, 03:23 AM
LMAO @ this post. Obviously the only players that will know his system are the ones that played for him before. WTF does that have to do with anything? Allen never played for him.

What it means is it would be hard for ANY rookie to break his starting rotation, when there are veterans in his defensive scheme that already know his defense. Like say we got Mario Williams, u think he starts? I don't. U misunderstood my post, Its common sense that no rookie knows the defense comming out of the draft (unless they played for LSU while Nick was there i.e. Travis Daniels), which its why its tuff for anybody to crack the lineup at first, especially a guy who held out for almost 2 weeks. Obviously it was Nick's first season last year, which is why we had 2 starters on defense from the draft.

arsenal
09-29-2006, 08:17 AM
JAllen

In_Flames
09-29-2006, 08:24 AM
Carpenter or Lawson....

OurHeartAndSoul
09-30-2006, 04:43 PM
Cromartie, Holmes, Lawson in that order.

PhinFan0202
09-30-2006, 04:59 PM
Cromartie, Holmes, Lawson in that order.

Why didn't we pick any of them up? Jason Allen was an OK pick but i'm going to lie i was disapointed when we picked him. Lawson would have been a great replacement for J.T. next year and Cromartie is just a play maker.

Breed
09-30-2006, 05:40 PM
I'm not ashamed to admit it, Jason Allen was one of the players I really wanted the Dolphins to draft. These are the players I wanted the Dolphins to draft (in order).

1. Jason Allen (even if he fails at safety, he has more than enough athletism to play cornerback)

2. Antonio Cromartie (How many 6-2 corners are out there? How many 6-2 cornerbacks are out there that have the ability to be shutdown corners?)

3. Manny Lawson (physical freak)

4. Chad Jackson

I had a hard time separating these players; I would've been happy with either one.

TVs Soupy Sales
10-01-2006, 08:49 PM
I wanted to reach on Winston Justice. I haven't bothered to check how he is working out for Philly...

Edit: He's starting at LT for them according to this: http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/PHI

:fire: