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Phin-o-rama
09-20-2006, 09:05 AM
its possible this isn't 100% factual, but there is a 7 page thread at teamxbox right now with people going nuts....if true? bwahahah thats what sony gets for touting the lie of "1080p, the true hd experience" lmao...


For Release 4 p.m. Tokyo time/3 a.m. EDT
Sept. 20, 2006
Microsoft Showcases Library of Nearly 110 High-Definition Xbox 360 Games at the Tokyo Game Show
"Blue Dragon” Leads Holiday Lineup of Games; “Pac-Man” World Championship, Xbox 360 HD DVD Player in Japan and 1080p Support for Xbox 360 unveiled.

TOKYO — Sept. 20, 2006 — Today at the Tokyo Game Show 2006, Microsoft Corp. delivered information on new and improved entertainment experiences for Japanese gamers, including details of the Xbox 360™ library of nearly 110 high-definition games available this holiday season in Japan, which will include the highly anticipated “Blue Dragon” from Microsoft Game Studios. Microsoft also paid tribute to NAMCO BANDAI Games and “Pac-Man,” announcing that the first “Pac-Man” World Championship will be held in early 2007 using Xbox 360 and Xbox Live® Arcade. Microsoft also revealed details of other entertainment offerings enabled through Xbox 360, with availability date and pricing provided for the Xbox 360 HD DVD player in Japan, as well as news of an update that will allow the Xbox 360 console to output full 1080p games and video.

At the best-attended gaming convention in the world, Microsoft showcased games that will boost the Xbox 360 software library in Japan to nearly 110 titles by holiday season 2006 as well as more titles coming well into 2007. The Xbox 360 games showcased include “Blue Dragon” (Microsoft Game Studios), “Lost Planet: Extreme Condition” (Capcom), “Dead or Alive: Xtreme 2” (Tecmo Inc.) and the newly announced “Trusty Bell” (NAMCO BANDAI Games), and a host of anticipated Xbox Live Arcade titles. For 2007, Microsoft also announced a pipeline of great games that include the epic role-playing game (RPG) “Infinite Undiscovery” (Microsoft Game Studios).

“The key to winning the hearts and minds of the Japanese market is great games, and this great lineup demonstrates that Xbox 360 has those games in spades,” said Peter Moore, corporate vice president of the Interactive Entertainment Business in the Entertainment and Devices Division at Microsoft. “Our lineup of role-playing games from the acknowledged masters of the genre is proof positive that there has never been a better time for Japanese gamers to jump in and pick up an Xbox 360 system.”

Many game titles, including the much-anticipated epic RPG “Blue Dragon,” will be playable for the first time in the Microsoft® booth at the Tokyo Game Show. Other playable titles include “Lost Odyssey™” (Microsoft Game Studios) and “Viva Piñata™” (Microsoft Game Studios).

Xbox Live Arcade and the “Pac-Man” World Championship

With the creator of “Pac-Man,” Toru Iwatani, onstage Peter Moore announced that Microsoft and NAMCO BANDAI Games will host the first “Pac-Man” World Championship in early 2007. The top 10 players in the world for “Pac-Man” on Xbox Live Arcade will compete for the title in New York City. More details, including how to qualify for the championship, will be made available in the coming months.

Continuing its tremendous momentum, Xbox Live Arcade has also announced in Tokyo a host of exciting new games, including some that will be exclusive to the Japanese market. Gamers will have the opportunity to try a host of new games on the show floor, including the classic side-scroller “Contra” (Konami Corp.), the space-shooter “Gyruss” (Konami), the enemy-popping classic “Dig Dug” (NAMCO BANDAI Games), arcade favorite “Track & Field” (Konami), “New Rally-X” (NAMCO BANDAI Games) “Rush’n Attack” (Konami), a favorite 1980s side-scroller, and the inimitable “Ms. Pac-Man” (NAMCO BANDAI Games). In addition, the Japan-exclusive Xbox Live Arcade game “Yie Ar Kung Fu” (Konami), one of the very first fighting games, was announced for release in 2007.

Xbox 360 HD DVD Player and 1080p Support

Microsoft announced pricing and availability details for the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player in Japan. The accessory will launch on Nov. 17, 2006, priced at ¥19,800 (estimated retail price), and will come with an Xbox 360 Universal Media Remote.

“Xbox 360 and the HD DVD Player together deliver the most powerful and affordable games and movie system for Japanese consumers,” Moore said. “The freedom to choose their entertainment experiences is extremely important for consumers as they enter the next generation.”

In addition, Microsoft announced that its fall software update, scheduled for release later this year, will allow all Xbox 360 consoles around the world to output game and movie content in 1080p resolution.

XNA

Demonstrating its pledge to democratize game development for tomorrow’s game developers, Microsoft announced that four Japanese universities will use its XNA™ Game Studio Express software in educational material and research within their course offerings. The XNA software allows hobbyists, students and independent game developers to create games for Windows® and, for the first time, Xbox 360 with the goal that user-generated games made with XNA will arrive on Xbox Live Marketplace. Tokyo University, Tokyo Polytechnic University, Ritsumeikan University and Osaka Electro-Communication University join the dozens of universities worldwide that have pledged support for Microsoft’s XNA vision and are recognizing the potential of XNA Game Studio Express as an educational tool. As a result, these four schools will integrate XNA software into their game development curricula, labs and games-related research.

“As I turn my attention and passion toward teaching the next generation of game developers, I am thrilled with XNA Game Studio Express and related products,” said Toru Iwatani, a lecturer at Tokyo Polytechnic University and original creator of “Pac-Man.” “I believe that these products are attractive and effective because they create a development environment that matches the skill level and area of expertise, widening the entry of future developers into game development.”

XNA Game Studio Express beta was made available to users worldwide on Aug. 30, 2006. The final version of XNA Game Studio Express will be made available this holiday season.

mor911
09-20-2006, 09:08 AM
I hate you... :D j/k I just read this and was about to post it. It is 100% factual. I heard it from the horses mouth in the TGS podcast. Sweet. I wonder when the HDMI cables go on sale.

UltraDol-Fan
09-20-2006, 09:34 AM
I really don't care about 1080p. I think it will be a feature I never get to use since I probably won't be able to buy another TV for 8 - 10 years.

mor911
09-20-2006, 09:42 AM
My current TV supports 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i. I was planning on upgrading to a 1080p DLP in the first half of 2007. So this is good news.

Phin-o-rama
09-20-2006, 09:45 AM
BUT DON"T YOU SEEE???!?!?! we have to be ready for the future!! lawd if only we could have blu ray ....i mean this gen's lifespan may never even actually need blu ray...but just in case, im glad that sony is forcing me to buy one!!

i have a 1080p monitor...it is the westinghouse 37w3 and i basically stole it from sams for 1000 bucks...it rocks....but i guarantee that the difference between 720p, 1080i and 1080p will be minimal....

Phin-o-rama
09-20-2006, 10:08 AM
Similar to the way the Xbox 360 upscales original Xbox games from 480p to 720p/1080i, you'll be able to enjoy your existing Xbox 360 games at the new resolution. As if you needed more proof that Microsoft's adoption of high definition HD-DVD is little more than a strategic move to limit Blu-ray's potential sphere of influence, Microsoft's 1080p software upgrade will also remove some of the value of their upcoming HD-DVD add-on by upscaling your existing DVD movies to HD resolutions, including 1080p.

So, Microsoft just announced that the Xbox 360 will play your existing DVDs back in high-definition -- in addition to being able to play back legitimate HD-DVD content if you're interested -- and they're gonna do it in 1080p. In the bullet point war, Sony better hope that extra Blu-ray disc space is worth it; they'll have a chance to prove it at TGS this week.



http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/20/tgs-xbox-360-to-add-1080p-support-ps3-to-lose-bullet-point/


pretty badass

Motion
09-20-2006, 10:32 AM
Microsoft pretty much had to do this IMO.

Stitches
09-20-2006, 10:35 AM
I just want an HD TV... :(

Phin-o-rama
09-20-2006, 10:37 AM
only because people were buying into the sony hype of "the only true hd experience" which is so false. the core market for these consoles are people that have no idea wtf is going on and are mesmerized by leet terms like 1080p and blu ray...when in reality, the differences are minimal if anything. M$ didn't NEED to do this, but in doing so...socked it a little bit to s0ny...and like that article says.....blu ray better be badass....basically the ps3 better be a monster of a machine that just shreds the 360 ..or they are in trouble.

mor911
09-20-2006, 10:38 AM
I just want an HD TV... :(Once you go HD bro... There's no going back to standard def.

mor911
09-20-2006, 10:41 AM
I agree that Sony definitely pushes things that doesn't need to be pushed. Like all of this HD stuff. It's definitely great that Sony is making the system for the "next-gen", but the truth is, less than 2% of gamers have access to a 1080p TV. So the big feature applies to such a niche market, it's not that big of a deal.

I guess the part that bugs me the most is: I feel like the only reason the PS3 exists is so Sony can control the next movie medium.

Offerdahl56
09-20-2006, 11:28 AM
ok so how much is the cost in american dollars? any idea?

mor911
09-20-2006, 11:31 AM
ok so how much is the cost in american dollars? any idea?What?

The 360 update = FREE

HDTV That supports 1080p usually start at around the $2500 mark.

Motion
09-20-2006, 12:45 PM
What?

The 360 update = FREE

HDTV That supports 1080p usually start at around the $2500 mark.

All depends on size.

mor911
09-20-2006, 12:50 PM
All depends on size.True... But I don't think they make 1080p TVs (by TVs I mean actual TVs -- I know there are pleanty of monitors out there that are smaller) under 40 inches.

Deus Ex Dolphin
09-20-2006, 01:06 PM
I agree that Sony definitely pushes things that doesn't need to be pushed. Like all of this HD stuff. It's definitely great that Sony is making the system for the "next-gen", but the truth is, less than 2% of gamers have access to a 1080p TV. So the big feature applies to such a niche market, it's not that big of a deal.

I guess the part that bugs me the most is: I feel like the only reason the PS3 exists is so Sony can control the next movie medium.


Or how about the ONLY reason the PS3 has Blu-ray is so Sony could control the next movie medium? They could have gone with a 16x DVD drive and launched the PS3 Spring 2006. They are forcing every PS3 owner to pay for a Blu-ray drive most won't really use.

This MS announcement takes some of the wind out of the PS3 sails, and if that HD-DVD drive is $150? They can bundle it with the Premium 360 and still come in at least $50 less than the $599 PS3.

mor911
09-20-2006, 01:11 PM
I think the 360/HD-DVD bundle will be the same price of the PS3 (maybe $50 cheaper).

Regardless, I still will buy a PS3... I'm just not a fan of Sony's schemes. Plus, what if the Blu-Ray goes the way of the Beta Max or the UMD? Both very good mediums, but the public never seems to like Sony's method of doing things. And I'd be certain that Movie publishers aren't going to be happy about pennying up for every Blu-Ray they make to Sony.

Offerdahl56
09-20-2006, 01:30 PM
What?

The 360 update = FREE

HDTV That supports 1080p usually start at around the $2500 mark.


sorry, i meant the HD DVD drive for the 360....

Dol-Fan Dupree
09-20-2006, 02:36 PM
Or how about the ONLY reason the PS3 has Blu-ray is so Sony could control the next movie medium? They could have gone with a 16x DVD drive and launched the PS3 Spring 2006. They are forcing every PS3 owner to pay for a Blu-ray drive most won't really use.

This MS announcement takes some of the wind out of the PS3 sails, and if that HD-DVD drive is $150? They can bundle it with the Premium 360 and still come in at least $50 less than the $599 PS3.

They are not forcing anyone to do anything. They are selling a product and it is your choice to buy one. There is no forcing.

It doesn't matter if it is bundled together. It is not standard so it is does not mean much in terms of gaming.

arsenal
09-20-2006, 02:58 PM
i think my tv only does 720p :cry:

Phin-o-rama
09-20-2006, 02:58 PM
i agree....an hd-dvd addon has about as much effect on gaming as the blu ray drive does :D neither will improve or hinder the performance of the games :)

Phin-o-rama
09-20-2006, 03:00 PM
i think my tv only does 720p :cry:



don't worry bud, there will be very little if any difference between 720p and 1080p ....

UltraDol-Fan
09-20-2006, 03:00 PM
i think my tv only does 720p :cry:

I wish I could run 720p. I only get 480p or 1080i, although the 1080i is still really nice

Miami 13
09-20-2006, 03:03 PM
Well I could care less about the 360, but what is the difference between 1080p and 1080i? I have a 42in Plasma HDTV and it has 1080i.

Motion
09-20-2006, 04:05 PM
i agree....an hd-dvd addon has about as much effect on gaming as the blu ray drive does :D neither will improve or hinder the performance of the games :)

Yeah, disc storage size is completely useless....

mor911
09-20-2006, 04:12 PM
Well I could care less about the 360, but what is the difference between 1080p and 1080i? I have a 42in Plasma HDTV and it has 1080i.P = Progressive Scan and I = Interlaced. On interlaced images, you're actually only getting half of the image (every other line). Progressive scan shows you the entire image. Interlaced images also display at 30 frames per second, where progressive scanned image run at 60.

Phin-o-rama
09-20-2006, 06:14 PM
Yeah, disc storage size is completely useless....


it still does not affect the way the game will play or the graphics it produces...also, like pagan stated a while ago, companies that are making multi-platform games will basically make them the same for the 360 and ps3 for continuity.

ChrisKo
09-20-2006, 06:16 PM
Well I could care less about the 360, but what is the difference between 1080p and 1080i? I have a 42in Plasma HDTV and it has 1080i.

i = Interlaced (uses two passes to draw the screen)
p = Progressive (one pass for the whole image)

What does this mean for gaming? It's possible in high movement scenes that screen redraw and jaggies can be present when using an interlaced image. At such a high resolution as 1080, it's debatable that you'll even notice the interlacing jaggies. So that leaves the retrace issue as really the biggest difference.

Advantages of interlaced imaging, there are certain tricks that graphics coders can exploit within that rretrace state. Not sure how many software companies take advantage of these things with the hardware today, but it was pretty big back on the 8-bit and 16-bit gaming.

ChrisKo
09-20-2006, 06:20 PM
Yeah, disc storage size is completely useless....

For the gamer, no. But for the publisher it can be a HUGE deal. Coders don't have to deal with splitting our the game across multiple discs. Packaging doesn't need to be modified to handle multiple discs. Media pressing can be cheaper since you only need to press 1 disc.

Sometimes you need to look at these technologies from outside the gamer's view.

mor911
09-20-2006, 07:07 PM
I think motion was being sarcastic :lol:

Dol-Fan Dupree
09-21-2006, 03:38 AM
it still does not affect the way the game will play or the graphics it produces...also, like pagan stated a while ago, companies that are making multi-platform games will basically make them the same for the 360 and ps3 for continuity.

It is easier to add than it is to take away.

For instance all those fun japanese titles you love so much, they can all be on one blu ray disc instead of having to make one for every region.

Motion
09-21-2006, 09:55 AM
I think motion was being sarcastic :lol:

:chuckle:

Motion
09-21-2006, 09:59 AM
it still does not affect the way the game will play or the graphics it produces...also, like pagan stated a while ago, companies that are making multi-platform games will basically make them the same for the 360 and ps3 for continuity.
And on the flipside, exclusive titles such as Gran Turismo could have endless possibilities to include pretty much every car ever made and countless courses. Games like MGS could be expanded exponentially. GTA style games could be nearly endless. Disc size is far from useless.

UltraDol-Fan
09-21-2006, 10:05 AM
Larger disc size games, though, will probably also mean higher prices for games. If you actually want the whole disc filled with more content the game developers are going to want more money, especially when they can make a smaller game for the Xbox 360...

mor911
09-21-2006, 10:36 AM
I don't think larger discs are a bad thing and I don't think they'll equate to higher game prices... I do feel like they aren't needed though.

Huge games (I'll use Oblivion as my example) don't even use half of a DVD. As far as game length and content, Oblivion is probably the biggest game in the last 2 years. It isn't even the size od a single layered DVD. It's only 3.8GB (I think that's about right). A dual layered DVD holds 9GB and some change. No games (PS2, 360, or Xbox) are even coming close to filling it.

Off the top of my head, I know Xeno Saga (only part 1) uses 7GB and Jak2 uses 8GB. Xeno Saga is just a large game. But Jak2 was intentionally filled with large "nothing" files to make piracy more difficult. As an active member in the piracy community, I am against the Blu-ray :lol:

I'm kidding. Keep an open mind guys, it can only be a good thing for the PS3. It's a liitle un-needed expensive for my taste buds, but it's too late to complain.

Motion
09-21-2006, 10:52 AM
I'm by no means saying its the key to the console war or anything and I'm not a fan of longer loading times by any means. I'm not saying every game needs to completely fill a disc either but the space is obviously there if needed. Its definitely is a useful aspect of gaming.

Phin-o-rama
09-21-2006, 10:55 AM
i just feel that they are pushing the format and making people beleive that they will end up needing it when in actuality this gen of consoles will never take advantage of it anyways. also from what i have read the only thing that will require that much space is if there is a ton of pre rendered video....we will just have to wait and see...

also, one of the biggest causes of console breakdowns in years past was from problems with the drive...M$'s hd-dvd peripheral will not put extra wear and tear on the drive, whereas people who are buying the ps3 for blu ray movies will run through the drive theoretically faster.

also, for those that buy a ps3 w/o a warranty (i am sure there will be tons) how much will sony charge to replace a blu ray drive....just some thoughts

Motion
09-21-2006, 11:01 AM
i just feel that they are pushing the format and making people beleive that they will end up needing it when in actuality this gen of consoles will never take advantage of it anyways. also from what i have read the only thing that will require that much space is if there is a ton of pre rendered video....we will just have to wait and see...

also, one of the biggest causes of console breakdowns in years past was from problems with the drive...M$'s hd-dvd peripheral will not put extra wear and tear on the drive, whereas people who are buying the ps3 for blu ray movies will run through the drive theoretically faster.

also, for those that buy a ps3 w/o a warranty (i am sure there will be tons) how much will sony charge to replace a blu ray drive....just some thoughts

I personally think drive failure is overrated. My launch day PS2 is still running as strong as the day I brought it home. I know there are people out there that have gone through several of them but I have a hard time believing its the majority. Which leads to your last point, if there is a mass failure issue with the Blu-Ray drive, which IMO would be catostrophic for Sony, they would have to make a recall.

Phin-o-rama
09-21-2006, 11:19 AM
hehe i also had a ps2 since launch that worked right up until i traded it in on my 360 2 months ago.....i wouldn't say it performed as well as it did when it was new hehe, but it would still turn on and read the occaisonal disk...

with the level of success that ps2 enjoyed it really does show that the games are the most important thing....i mean the stupid memory cards that ps2 used are ******ed when compared to an internal HDD....as well as the lame network adapter thing that you bought and installed into the back of the ps2 (which i bought and used) compared to the built in ethernet port of the xbox....

Motion
09-21-2006, 11:23 AM
hehe i also had a ps2 since launch that worked right up until i traded it in on my 360 2 months ago.....i wouldn't say it performed as well as it did when it was new hehe, but it would still turn on and read the occaisonal disk...

with the level of success that ps2 enjoyed it really does show that the games are the most important thing....i mean the stupid memory cards that ps2 used are ******ed when compared to an internal HDD....as well as the lame network adapter thing that you bought and installed into the back of the ps2 (which i bought and used) compared to the built in ethernet port of the xbox....

:yes: At least they are correcting all those mistakes with PS3. I was praying for a standard HD.

Stitches
09-21-2006, 11:29 AM
I personally think drive failure is overrated. My launch day PS2 is still running as strong as the day I brought it home. I know there are people out there that have gone through several of them but I have a hard time believing its the majority. Which leads to your last point, if there is a mass failure issue with the Blu-Ray drive, which IMO would be catostrophic for Sony, they would have to make a recall.

I got my ps2 used the february after launch(so I'm guessing it was at least close to a launch date ps2), and I've only ever had problems reading Gran Turismo 4 recently. It doesn't play as good as it did, since it can't read blue back disks anymore, but I think the lens just needs to be cleaned for once. But what is that, like 5 years of service at least? I've had it so long, I can't remember when it came out, and I've never had to replace anything. So I have to agree that drive failre is overrated and just bad luck with some people, because in any lot of electrical equipment(game systems, vcr's, dvd players, tv's) there are bound to be some defectives.

Phin-o-rama
09-22-2006, 08:57 AM
I could see some games going past the 9gig mark but not much and unless the is game slammed w/ HD video content or includes like 3 games in one disc...I point to sloppy coding.

Compression is a great thing that will keep Microsoft from eating their words about DL-DVD being sufficient.

mor911
09-22-2006, 10:26 AM
I could see some games going past the 9gig mark but not much and unless the is game slammed w/ HD video content or includes like 3 games in one disc...I point to sloppy coding.

Compression is a great thing that will keep Microsoft from eating their words about DL-DVD being sufficient.
That's what it comes down to, sloppy and lazy coding. It's not always the developer's fault either. Sometimes they're given unrealistic deadlines and they're forced to fast-track their code.